love to see somebody not bashing haas, especially the umc. company i work for bought a standard umc 500 last year at imts i like it for the die work we do. mostly A2 and D2 tool steel. wish it was more rigid, especially with Y axis extended out, but if you work around it take light cuts at faster feed rates it gets the job done reasonably well. considering the next step up, a doosan, is around another $100k
Get what you pay for i guess, you always see Haas demo's cutting ally and not steel for this reason - the ram design is not rigid enough. Plus all the other drawbacks such as poor chip evacuation, and even in this video things not thought out well like the door on the pallet changer, pallet changer not returning to where it should etc etc. Im opening my shop next year and i already know not to buy Haas. People only continue to buy them because they started with them and it's what they or their operators know.
I work on two old 3 axis lathes at work, then 4th axis Haas and horizontal 5 axis mills, programming and drafting with Mastercam at my trade school in Texas. we just got a old Doosan mx2500lst at work and we don't even have software to turn the turret on so we are just using it as a mill haha. it would be my dream to work for a passionate guy like you.
Even cooler if you got to work with real precsion machines like Mazak or DMG, My experience with Haas is really bad, chep and unreliable, got to work with Mazak and Wow what an improvemnt in quality.
I'm so curious why you're sticking with haas over something like doosan. After multiple software issues with the NGC over the years especially the big issue we faced on the UMC500 a couple years ago I don't think I could ever feel good about purchasing a haas that isn't a simple VMC.
@@teekteekteekteek A few years ago I had an ST20Y crash because of a software issue that caused the machine to try to cut on the X- side only if cutter comp was turned on. We had already been milling successfully on it but hadn't used cutter comp so didn't even think that could happen. More recently had issues with a UMC500 having a compounding thermal comp issue only on the Z axis. That issue put us at a dead halt on a job after weeks of troubleshooting only to find it was something we could not fix with any clever CAM tricks. Haas had told us multiple times over months that a fix was coming and fell short every time with very little communication from them or our reseller. At one point a tech came in with a software update to fix it and it did absolutely nothing. We ended up purchasing the first Doosan 5axis we could find in stock in the US and had it shipped the day after Haas said they weren't sure when they would be able to fix it so we could finish our job. I never had a single issue with a Haas machine until the NGC. Haven't had issues that were significant with their simple 2 axis lathes, 3 axis mills, or horizontal mills and I'd happily buy a used one for my shop, but I'd never even consider for a moment buying a new Haas after my experience with Haas directly on the UMC issue. I certainly would not touch a 5 axis machine or live tooling lathe from them unless 5 years go by without me hearing about any more software issues. Those two issues above are my biggest but I've consistently found other smaller software issues every year since NGC was released. I like the control a lot, I just wish they could get it right. Yeah the UMC is 100k cheaper than the Doosan, but it couldn't even do what was sold to us, was slower, less accurate, and has less standard options.
There are vf haas machines all over the place around me. They make a lot of money for a lot of people. If the parts you make don’t need tolerances tighter than .005” they will bang out parts just as good as the highest end machine you can get.
Looking at equipment purchases from an RIO perspective doesn't make much sense to me in a business like machining. Purchase decisions are dictated by sales growth. I don't see them as much of an investment as their resale value is so little. They are tools to do the job. Would it make sense for a contractor to try to calculate RIO on his work truck?
A lack of resale value of the machine doesn’t dismiss ROI, that’s a misunderstanding of what ROI is. Yes, it would absolutely make sense for a contractor to consider the ROI of the tools to run their business, including their truck. If you want to question the ROI of the pallet pool in this video which is 6 months old and clearly unused, I think there are fair questions to ask. 😂
Of course it would. A work truck has a good ROI because it enables you to get to more jobs than a bicycle would. Yet your average electrician doesn’t buy a semi truck, because it has bad ROI due to not enabling more income relative to the increased price
How in the world did you get a UMC-500 (w/ Pallet Pool) for $105,000? The UMC alone list for $160,000. Maybe the sheet is not using real world values? I ask because if this only represents the financed amount, that could effect how many people would calculate ROI. If I can get a UMC500PP for 105 I am calling Haas today!
@@nyccnc I was kinda thinking that sounds expensive, but it's really only about 10 Grand a pallet, plus all the hardware to rotate them and enclosure. If you ran an extra 10 long cycle parts overnight every day, that adds up, and is a good deal. Still though, bit of a bummer with the coolant tank. Classic Haas engineering I guess, to overlook that. ;)
my boss would say we dont get no 5 axis with pallet pool because there is so much money just standing in tools and fixtures we cant afford you cant drive it then i start looking new jobs
You should do a video series on the morality of dodging sanctions by manufacturing companies. Namely haas and their contjnued support of russia through Suzhou Sup Bestech Machine Tools Co., LTD
naah.... they say B axis 0 to 90 angle they have error of 0.1mm .....its not for accuracy .... if don't need accuracy please buy.....if you need accuracy and precision ....dont buy it....or take your risk and be aware....
Ill never buy another haas after the way our HFO treated us with our centerline holding issues on our brand new st20y. I bought a mazak for my 5 axis because they treat people like humans.
@ReactionTime344 turns out Haase does not check the alignment when they deliver and set up. They made a note of it when it was new but I really noticed the issues when I started doing deeper boring parts. Call them back and suddenly yea they made a note that the machine had an issue but now they want 6k+ to align it and the tech sits on the phone for over an hour talking about expense reports while your getting billed for them to send him out to just verify what you have been telling them for two years.
About to trade my less than a year old st20y and robot package 1 for a Mazak QT250msy with Robojob Robot Package. Ive probably had them out a minimum of 10 times on this one machine. Haas is useless from the factory. Love the HFO guys, they are only dealing with the crap from the factory that they had no hand in making.
Hands down worst 5 axis machine money can buy, floats around everywhere, runs out, won't hold tolerance etc.. I wish I could warranty return the machine, such a pos
@@mannycalavera121 uff that’s way to much. But I can t imagine every umc 500 can’t hold 0,25mm. Probably something wrong with yours.. otherwise haas would not sell so much
I dig the chart visual at the end. Helps break down costs mentally
Hands down the best channel on manufacturing and cnc machines.....Kudos NYC CNC..
love to see somebody not bashing haas, especially the umc. company i work for bought a standard umc 500 last year at imts i like it for the die work we do. mostly A2 and D2 tool steel.
wish it was more rigid, especially with Y axis extended out, but if you work around it take light cuts at faster feed rates it gets the job done reasonably well.
considering the next step up, a doosan, is around another $100k
Get what you pay for i guess, you always see Haas demo's cutting ally and not steel for this reason - the ram design is not rigid enough. Plus all the other drawbacks such as poor chip evacuation, and even in this video things not thought out well like the door on the pallet changer, pallet changer not returning to where it should etc etc. Im opening my shop next year and i already know not to buy Haas. People only continue to buy them because they started with them and it's what they or their operators know.
@@wrighty338 that and nor being able to use heidenhain at least in europe.
Omg great timing with the video. I'm starting to look into the again. Thanks for the great content, as always!
Thanks for walking us through your math on how you make that kind of investment.
Damn man it's been some years but wow you've grown big time. I remeber the tormach days!!! Congrats
liking the excel sheet as well thanks!!
nice!! maximum machining with minimal re-fixturing
I spy a puck chuck 😱. Maxwell coupling design looks like? Have you done repeatability tests yet?
I work on two old 3 axis lathes at work, then 4th axis Haas and horizontal 5 axis mills, programming and drafting with Mastercam at my trade school in Texas. we just got a old Doosan mx2500lst at work and we don't even have software to turn the turret on so we are just using it as a mill haha. it would be my dream to work for a passionate guy like you.
Even cooler if you got to work with real precsion machines like Mazak or DMG, My experience with Haas is really bad, chep and unreliable, got to work with Mazak and Wow what an improvemnt in quality.
I came here for the 5 axis machine, but hoped to see the pup as well.
I'm so curious why you're sticking with haas over something like doosan. After multiple software issues with the NGC over the years especially the big issue we faced on the UMC500 a couple years ago I don't think I could ever feel good about purchasing a haas that isn't a simple VMC.
Can you tell me more about your issues?
@@teekteekteekteek A few years ago I had an ST20Y crash because of a software issue that caused the machine to try to cut on the X- side only if cutter comp was turned on. We had already been milling successfully on it but hadn't used cutter comp so didn't even think that could happen. More recently had issues with a UMC500 having a compounding thermal comp issue only on the Z axis. That issue put us at a dead halt on a job after weeks of troubleshooting only to find it was something we could not fix with any clever CAM tricks. Haas had told us multiple times over months that a fix was coming and fell short every time with very little communication from them or our reseller. At one point a tech came in with a software update to fix it and it did absolutely nothing. We ended up purchasing the first Doosan 5axis we could find in stock in the US and had it shipped the day after Haas said they weren't sure when they would be able to fix it so we could finish our job.
I never had a single issue with a Haas machine until the NGC. Haven't had issues that were significant with their simple 2 axis lathes, 3 axis mills, or horizontal mills and I'd happily buy a used one for my shop, but I'd never even consider for a moment buying a new Haas after my experience with Haas directly on the UMC issue. I certainly would not touch a 5 axis machine or live tooling lathe from them unless 5 years go by without me hearing about any more software issues. Those two issues above are my biggest but I've consistently found other smaller software issues every year since NGC was released. I like the control a lot, I just wish they could get it right. Yeah the UMC is 100k cheaper than the Doosan, but it couldn't even do what was sold to us, was slower, less accurate, and has less standard options.
Мужик, ты гений!
Looks like the 500 doesn’t need near as much ceiling height compared to the 750.
How’s the chip evacuation on this machine, would you leave it to run overnight?
Have you or anyone else figured out the probe at angle for tool water offset? Looking to inspect and adjust and check position with Dwo on.
I'm waiting for the elevated enclosed bridge between the two buildings 😁
You mean tunnnel?
@@nyccnc mono rail?
Massive respect to you John your a true entrepreneur and a competent machinist..but why do you keep buying Haas their absolute garbage …
There are vf haas machines all over the place around me. They make a lot of money for a lot of people. If the parts you make don’t need tolerances tighter than .005” they will bang out parts just as good as the highest end machine you can get.
Looking at equipment purchases from an RIO perspective doesn't make much sense to me in a business like machining. Purchase decisions are dictated by sales growth. I don't see them as much of an investment as their resale value is so little. They are tools to do the job. Would it make sense for a contractor to try to calculate RIO on his work truck?
A lack of resale value of the machine doesn’t dismiss ROI, that’s a misunderstanding of what ROI is.
Yes, it would absolutely make sense for a contractor to consider the ROI of the tools to run their business, including their truck.
If you want to question the ROI of the pallet pool in this video which is 6 months old and clearly unused, I think there are fair questions to ask. 😂
Of course it would.
A work truck has a good ROI because it enables you to get to more jobs than a bicycle would.
Yet your average electrician doesn’t buy a semi truck, because it has bad ROI due to not enabling more income relative to the increased price
How in the world did you get a UMC-500 (w/ Pallet Pool) for $105,000? The UMC alone list for $160,000. Maybe the sheet is not using real world values? I ask because if this only represents the financed amount, that could effect how many people would calculate ROI. If I can get a UMC500PP for 105 I am calling Haas today!
The math was just for deciding whether to add the ~$105k pallet pool
@@nyccnc Got it. Thank you for the clarification
John, you purchased a 500SS for 100 grand? How do you get that pricing?
That was just for the pallet pool!
@@nyccnc That makes more sense... thx
@@nyccnc I was kinda thinking that sounds expensive, but it's really only about 10 Grand a pallet, plus all the hardware to rotate them and enclosure. If you ran an extra 10 long cycle parts overnight every day, that adds up, and is a good deal.
Still though, bit of a bummer with the coolant tank. Classic Haas engineering I guess, to overlook that. ;)
is jonny 5 alive yet?
my boss would say we dont get no 5 axis with pallet pool because there is so much money just standing in tools and fixtures we cant afford you cant drive it
then i start looking new jobs
Ha, I like Johnny 5 creeping next to the 5axis. Can you make a 18x39" pallets?
Can you run 2 5 axis off 1 pallet pool
Probably not. It’s not made for that
You should do a video series on the morality of dodging sanctions by manufacturing companies. Namely haas and their contjnued support of russia through Suzhou Sup Bestech Machine Tools Co., LTD
one day
naah.... they say B axis 0 to 90 angle they have error of 0.1mm .....its not for accuracy .... if don't need accuracy please buy.....if you need accuracy and precision ....dont buy it....or take your risk and be aware....
I doubt this ..
@@teekteekteekteek see its in paper .... see manual....
that is 300 k with the pallet pool
Ill never buy another haas after the way our HFO treated us with our centerline holding issues on our brand new st20y. I bought a mazak for my 5 axis because they treat people like humans.
Our St20y seems to really suffer from the same issue
@ReactionTime344 turns out Haase does not check the alignment when they deliver and set up. They made a note of it when it was new but I really noticed the issues when I started doing deeper boring parts. Call them back and suddenly yea they made a note that the machine had an issue but now they want 6k+ to align it and the tech sits on the phone for over an hour talking about expense reports while your getting billed for them to send him out to just verify what you have been telling them for two years.
@@hyperformancellc figures as much. Really annoying.
@@hyperformancellc is there a way I can DM you?
About to trade my less than a year old st20y and robot package 1 for a Mazak QT250msy with Robojob Robot Package. Ive probably had them out a minimum of 10 times on this one machine. Haas is useless from the factory. Love the HFO guys, they are only dealing with the crap from the factory that they had no hand in making.
*promosm*
Hands down worst 5 axis machine money can buy, floats around everywhere, runs out, won't hold tolerance etc.. I wish I could warranty return the machine, such a pos
Which size of tolerance are you talking about?
0.25mm
@@mannycalavera121 uff that’s way to much. But I can t imagine every umc 500 can’t hold 0,25mm. Probably something wrong with yours.. otherwise haas would not sell so much
Willing to ship it?