Gotham's Batman Problem - Video Essay
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2024
- What's the problem with Gotham's Batman?
#gotham #batman #dccomics
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Stuff I (probably) stole from Wikipedia:
Gotham is an American action crime drama television series developed by Bruno Heller, produced by Warner Bros. Television and based on characters published by DC Comics and appearing in the Batman franchise, primarily those of James Gordon and Bruce Wayne. The series premiered on Fox on September 22, 2014, and concluded on April 25, 2019. The series stars Ben McKenzie as Jim Gordon and David Mazouz as Bruce Wayne. The series was originally intended to focus only on Gordon's early days with the Gotham City Police Department, but they subsequently included the Bruce Wayne character and the origin stories of several Batman villains, including Penguin,[2] Riddler,[2] Catwoman,[2] Poison Ivy,[3] Scarecrow,[4] Mr. Freeze,[5] Hugo Strange,[6] Solomon Grundy,[7] Ra's al Ghul,[8] Nyssa al Ghul,[9] Bane,[10] and The Joker.[11]
Development for a prequel series based on Batman began in September 2013, with Bruno Heller hired by Fox to serve as a writer and executive producer. In March 2014, Fox originally ordered 16 episodes for its first season before expanding it to 22. Filming primarily took place across New York City.
Since its broadcast, Gotham received positive reviews from critics, with many praising the performances, production values and writing. Despite initially high viewership, ratings began dropping considerably throughout the series' run. However, it continued to attract consistent acclaim from critics as the series progressed. In May 2018, Fox renewed the series for a fifth and final season, consisting of 12 episodes, which premiered on January 3, 2019, and concluded on April 25, 2019.
Actually Joker knows who Batman is in some iterations, he just doesn’t care. Bruce Wayne finds a Joker card in the Bat-Cave and visits Joker about it, when Joker turns around he just has a bored expression and just doesn’t care, this means Joker does know Bruce is Batman, but he doesn’t really care because he knows Bruce is just the mask, and Batman is who he truly is. So he just leaves Bruce alone. He doesn’t need to say it, after all he doesn’t in other iterations.
It also seems to indicate Jim knows who Batman is at the end, especially when he says: ‘a friend’ at the end. He worked with Bruce in No Man’s a land after all.
Penguin and Riddler haven’t really interacted with Bruce at all in the show either until the War. And even then, they didn’t talk to him at all and never saw his fighting skills. Penguin and Riddler could just think some cop who fought in the War could be Batman.
One of my favorite joker moments is when Bruce Wayne goes missing (I think it was when he went to the past) but dick is going around as batman and he goes to stop the joker, joker fights him for a bit then realizes it's not "his batman" so he stops and tells his henchmen to pack it up and tells dick to remind him when the real batman comes back
eoghandaly_07 and maybe the return of the legion of horribles
Depends on the version. Sometimes he wants to find out who Batman is, sometimes he knows but doesn't care and others where he doesn't know and doesn't care. And in the "Doesn't know or care" ones Joker's more obsessed with the Batman persona and identity itself and destroying it as a symbol of hope and heroism than who's behind the mask.
eoghandaly_07 did you know that the developers of this show confirmed that the character which everyone says is joker ISN’T Joker. Joker exists in this universe, but he is behind certain stuff, and hasn’t come out to reveal himself yet.
screenrant.com/gotham-jerome-jeremiah-joker-name/
Ya what this guy said. The Joker's crazy that way. He knows in lots of stories, just denies it. Very similar to how he seems determined to kill Batman in Dark Knight (movie), but he really doesn't want to. He wants the game to go on. Reality is multiple choice, after all.
That's a cute Batsuit, did your Butler make it for you?
I'm gonna put bat-dirt in your eyes...
Bat-ler*
@@kingslashv2272 That's a cute pun, did your husband make it for you?
Leave Alfred out of this
Said by Bully Maguire!
*_He’s wearing hockey pads_*
That Is being paid in rent to you. Mr Ditkovitch.
Fix the dang door!!!!
Rent?
@@levichance I a
Rent ?
Even if the final season had a LOT of flaws, Gotham remains the BEST DC tv series (also Lucifer and Smallville), and it remains one of my favourite tv series of all time
Lucifer is great... Mind the pfp-
@@doobie19 yeah lucifer is my favourite tv show
OutJumbo smallville is ass
@@geenhaaien at the time it was great
No... Swamp Thing and Constantine were! I'm still pissed DC/WB cancelled their best shows!
In the series defense : I don't think people would suspect that Bruce is Batman (with some exceptions like Selina and Jerome/Jeremiah) since, while Bruce indeed was part in many of the Gotham's arc he didn't do anything in those arcs. Most of times like season 2 and 4 he was always captured by the villains and the other character needed to save him. It's hard to believe that the villains would suspect that Batman is actually the kid who was always kidnapped in the end of the previous seasons.
This, by the way, represent's the biggest problem with Gotham's Batman in my opinion : the Inconsistencies in Batman's developments. In some episodes it looks like Bruce had some fighting lessons or learn something for his journey to become Batman, such as his no killing rule, however most of the times the show forgets that and puts Bruce in situations that he could easly escape with the abilites he gained. It's like the show's writers producers wanted him to become Batman sonner but then realize that Bruce was still too young, making his arc come out
dragged and repetitive.
There is still the coicendece issue off Bruce showing up when batman did.
Was the finale bad? Yes because we didn't see the iconic moment in the comics where jokeman lost his pp
Casswury his hotdog
@Casswury it's a reference to an old video of pups
?
I feel like Gotham's Batman issues is all on WB. They restrict Batman and Joker, that the finale had to be a 44 minute episode. If anything, if the episode was longer, and WB cared more about the fans, the finale could have been better, and 5 years of character development wouldn't go down the drain for the main character and his nemesis on his own dang tv show.
Agreed this is WB's Fault.
Another part of the problem, in my opinion, was the showrunners and writers stuffing it into the last episode in the first place, especially knowing their time limit. They should have focused on wrapping up old stuff and giving satisfying closure & fanservice on what we already had, like Batman and The Joker, or Penguin and Riddler. But because they tried to introduce so much new stuff and characters over ten episodes, all of that good long-running stuff got way too little screentime to be effective.
WB could care less about actually doing something that is FAITHFUL AND ACCEPTABLE. WB sucks, they refuse to actually give these incredible characters good content and hire people who have read like TWO comic books in their life to be in charge. Instead they gave us the dumpster fire of the DCEU.
BrickStudios 105 well I wish that the second part to the finale
@@jturner2577, thanks for understanding
The series finale was ass. I wanted to see Batman fight Joker or Mr. J(legally) but no, two batarangs and he is down.
That would have paid off all the combat scenes of Bruce really well, by having Batman actually have a physical fight. It could still all be done in shadows without even properly seeing Batman. Such a cop out.
@@ChannelPup Yeah wtf was up with that? I wasted so many minutes of my life committed to see batman fight joker but at the end I was disappointed to not see it. Am I not supposed to have what I want? what I need?
Peter Parker True bro i really don’t like it Smallville is always better.
@@ChannelPup That would been awesome.
Peter Parker yeah and especially that people know that this, Tim Burton’s and Joaquin Phoenix Joker aren’t really that secret.
I saw that suit, and I understood why J laughed when he saw him.
I blame the Bat-Embargo. It's what keeps us from getting an actual suited up Batman on TV. (Titans tried but could only have it in the shadows)
At least it's dead in animation.
Yeah. It sucks. Even though the CW shows aren’t very good- Crisis was especially disappointing in that Conroy didn’t get to have any cool suit and died within 5 minutes. It’s like the Mickey Mouse embargo on Ducktales- but way worse because people actual want to see Batman and not that annoying mouse lol.
I wish Gotham lasted another three seasons or more.
At least a full season honestly
They said some abt another season possibly
@@natecantskate437 Do you remember when and where
@@elijahb30 it was some leak but it got deleted
I think if we had another season with batman, it wouldnt be good with the show since gotham is about bruce wayne becoming batman and just that, its about gotham, the origin of his enemies.
If I could extend season 5 I would have part 1 be the No Man's Land story arc and 'The Beginning' being the mid season finale, part 2 would have been Bruce Wayne's first year as Batman and would have highlighted villains such as Mr Freeze, the Mad Hatter, Firefly, Scarecrow and Jeremiah as they had little to no screen time in what we got.
Isaac Whittaker-Dakin so we need a new legion of horribles?
@@srstriker6420 Yeah it could have worked
Isaac Whittaker-Dakin yeah imagine if they were his sinister six to Batman’s Spider-Man
The bat costume in the finale was just god awful.
Blame WB.
I thought it was alright. But I didn't like the Batsuit from TDK, so I wouldn't guess either opinion is very popular, lol. Both are pretty boring imo. The second Keaton suit is still my favorite Batsuit because of some interesting design decisions, as well as the splash of yellow on the logo to add some damn color to the black on black on black. Batman Begins Batsuit is alright imo. I love the Matt Reeves/Robert Pattinson Batsuit so far. Might steal first place even. Just my thoughts as far as Batsuits go.
Mashburn Edits Matt Reeves batsuit is my favorite right now. And I didnt like the Nolan suit either. I always hated the all black suits
Trust it did look wank
It was alright seems like a prototype suit which he will improve on over time
“What went wrong?” Several things come to mind...
I can't think of any
it went on too long, wayyyyyy too long, some episodes were just so unbelievable and repetatitve
I think the problem was trying to bring Batman into a show of just a police man. Dont get me wrong I liked the show but I would have liked a show like Season 1 , Detective show with Gorden in the middle of it all, a show were the Mafia the Penguin and other humans were Gordans enemys. For me it is just dumb to let Gorden fight Villans who were written to fight Batman. So in Short I would have liked a More of less realistic detective show in the corrupted Gotham without supernatural villans.
@@karl796 yep this should have been Gotham Central as a live action.
Another problem with the finale is that Jim Gordon and the police support Batman. If you read Batman: Year One, the police despise Batman.
Not really a problem but more of a nitpick of yours
He’s also way too skinny, and it looks hilarious when he’s beating up grown men
Astral Flick i hate it when people say this. Look at Damian Wayne he was an 10 year old assasin when bruce took him in. Size en strength do not matter. Only intelligence
@@yt_channel2943 He's just saying it looks bad, Batman isn't a small teenager he looks weird if he was..
Miguel O'hara Agreed
Have you seen Bruce’s libs? They are so small
@@yt_channel2943 Yeah but Batman isn’t a 10 year old
Damn, David Mazouz looks like a man know...
I'm only 3 years older than him, but seeing him so grown up and tall makes me feel quite old 😂
What he is only 164cm
@@aaronbajlo4663 he is 178cm 🙄
That's not even him lol
Also whatever happened to the undead being like the thing only able to die from explosives and fire honestly I say I'd be more interesting if we reivied jerome.again and have him and jermiah fight and then throw them both into the acid so we'll never know who is the joker
I had the exact same idea.
That would've been a badass and genius episode would've kept people guessing who it is Jeremiah or Jerome
Technically jeremiah now is both of them at the same time kind of like the batman who laughs
that was half the problem with the show, the constant revivals of characters and nobody dying
I'm somewhat happy with the finally I just wish we got more batman I think the finally would've been better if it was like 2 hours instead and a bigger budget
So a movie? 🤣
Interesting that both smallville and Gotham suffered the same issue with the finale, a dissapointing final suit up moment and too many people knowing or that should know who they are... At least smallville erased lex luthers memory so that's one up on Gotham.
Chris Mennell idk if I would say smallville’s finale was disappointing. His contract did say no tights no flight. And it did set up his life with people knowing and he did try to hide his identity to the big players
This is why we need a Gotham comic follow up. Kinda like what they did with smallvill
Yes!
I don’t like the idea of Batman meeting his characters before dawning the Batsuit or them being related to him in some way all the time. It only seems interesting when at least most of them are random people unrelated to Bruce Wayne.
I felt the same when watching Smallville. Clark Kent kept meeting all his villains before he became Superman.
@@waynenewark5363 they even had connor kent show up before clark was offically superman
The costume does look good in behind the scenes photos and I really liked seeing it. However I would say that placing the abdomen armour plates closer would make the suit look well finished.
I personally believe the time jump was unnecessary.
I mean - Bruce already knew how to fight; he's been a vigilante since the end of season 3. In my opinion, the most satisfying ending would have been 18 year old Bruce dressing up as the Batman for the first time.
Bc Bruce didn't officially become the bat until after he trained all over the world.
@@DravisACard In some of the comics, yes. But Gotham has always done its own thing.
Here, Bruce basically became Batman at the end of season 3
@@jonasstoerfeuer4193 which is silly.
@@DravisACard What about that is silly?
I mean, I know a bunch of silly things happened in Gotham, but how is that specifically silly? A lot of 16 year old boys are strong enough to fight grown men; if Bruce was trained by Alfred, then it is entirely possible.
@@jonasstoerfeuer4193 Alfred's training is nowhere near enough. That was the basics and the beginning, he needs to travel and train and learn way more to become Batman, hence the time jump.
i agree with all of your statement except for the part about the joker. in death of the family it is hinted that the joker had known about who batman was since their first meeting, and that he simply doesn't care. to him bruce isn't batman, batman is bruce and he doesn't want to play with the man batman is pretending to be.
Ironic that in later comics it was stated that batman figured out jokers real name 1 week after they met.
Wait a second. Do my eyes deceive me??? A Gotham video in 2020 by PUP???
Your dreaming dude sorry
I think it makes sense because most of the villains were close to Bruce and there is a 10 year difference and 10 years can make a difference for those who didn’t know him well and it makes sense that Jim Selena and joker know that Bruce is Batman because they knew him best, it makes sense but I don’t think that joker would just be attacking the manor all the time he wouldn’t because that spoils the joke of him knowing Batman’s identity and no other villain knowing it
That’s the worst bar suit I’ve ever seen.
Why didn’t they use one like the one in batwoman and show him more?
Is this a joke?
@@spiderdalorian5666 i Hope so
Guys remember this is Bruce Wayne's first night as the Batman. Sometimes the batsuit doesn't have to be super cool or good. He use the bat suit not only for hiding his true identity but also to scare the criminals. If sometime in the future that they will continue for a 6th season. Bruce Wayne will probably make a new one which will be more high tech, more durable and a lot more cooler than this. And the thing is sure Bruce Wayne is a billionaire so of course he can create and buy something a little bit better than what we got now.
Diamond warrior 2025 to end the series I didn’t want it looking that bad though
But for me I like the Gotham batsuit So that means it's just my unpopular opinion.
Well, they tried to show how he hides his identity, since Batman’s been around for a couple of weeks before his return.
Pretty sure gorden knew it was Bruce with his line " that's an old friend". And the batmsn aspect is tricky because the show is more based around Him and his role. At some point in the show it went into Bruce/Batman being the co star when at first bruce was like the 3rd or 4th main character.
Gotham TV Show portrayed this idea of this city without hope, with no heroes, rather despair and monsters within its core. All this flourished as a chain reaction of Bruce and Martha Wayne's murder.
Season 1 explained how one man was able to shed the light the city and its people needed:
James Gordon.
But Gordon kept failing over and over again. This established the idea that the police was not enough, the city needed someone else (queue Arrow's "something else").
Hence Gotham Season 1 explained why we needed a Batman.
Season 2 was titled "Raise of the Villains" when the writers saw the positive response from the audience to the villains of the show. So it became about them, Penguin, Jerome/Joker, Riddler and more.
Still explaining why the city needed a Batman desperately.
Season 3 was when the show deviated from its original purpose. The writers tried to expand on Season 2, but Mad Hatter as much as I loved the portrayal, it was not enough (Season 3's Jerome arc was awesome though!).
Season 4 went back on track, but with the origin of Batman as well as going deeper into who ran Gotham with its secret society. Although Ra's Al Ghul's plan to create a worthy successor by destroying a city was a bit excessive.
Season 5's portrayal of the No Man's Land story was amazing, now the city had no just despair and monsters, but also hunger and death all over. The city truly needed a Batman, but Gordon proved to be enough apparently (some help of allies). This heavily worked against the show's purpose overall I think. 10 years later and Gordon was still commissioner, the city evolved and actually things were not as bad as in season 1. Other than Penguin being released and Jerome waking up, the challenge was no different or not even close to previous seasons. No Man's Land was a the city's biggest crisis and Gordon was still able to succeed. This meant Batman was not as needed at all.
That's why the finale felt unearned. All of the sudden Bruce returned and voila! Vigilante!
Season 5 finale failed to explain why Bruce needs to return, why the city needs a Batman.
If the 10- year jump began with the return of Ra's al Ghul with league of assassins, or...
A new Falcone/Maroni investing on a chemical plant/corporation which also secretly began tests with living patients on the underground basement of Arkham Asylum ("New Indian Hill").
The plant opens by bribing city officials, perhaps even with the help of Harvey Dent, under Gordon's [mustached] nose, maybe major James (the same from Season 1) is in the circle too.
There is a bomb threat on the plant which exposes its operations on the newspaper (bring Valerie Vale?). Bomb goes off, maybe Riddler/Jerome/Penguin work together (Legion of Horribles 2.0 like season 4), then the lab explosion brings a new wave of monsters to the city (like season 2), at the same time a new line of corruption is exposed with strings pulled by Falcone/Marone (like season 1), a new chemical weapon is released too (like Mad Hatter's blood in season 3 or Scarecrow formula from season 4). It all comes all together so the city falls to chaos again.
Now Bruce needs to return ASAP, and the city needs a Batman. Batman investigating a chemical corporation businessman is a nod to Batman's first case in the comics. Bringing all the villains' story arcs from previous seasons would have been a perfect end. Gordon is not enough anymore. It would have explained why the city needed a Batman.
Barbara Kean's redemption done right... R U kidding me? I still to this day don't know who this identity shapeshifter of a character was or was supposed to be. And I'm willing to bet neither do the writers.
It’s been a year since I watched the finale, but I don’t remember Joker ever figuring out Bruce is Batman. Either my memory sucks, or I didn’t pick up that when I was watching it.
He knows but he doesn't care the few people that can say they know joker Gordon and a few others don't care just look at joker in other batman story's he never cared or wanted to take off the mask because it takes away the fun same for the riddler at some points that's why the show was so great because they were able to take stuff from the lore and use it and change things as well for there own world and they had to work within WBs lines which wasn't always the best
He was smiling when he saw him he knew it was Bruce
Yeahhhhhhhhhh................
J calls Batman "You..." when he sees him.
The only ones who know are Selina,Gordon,Bullock,Alfred & J.
GOTHAM after the season finale would work so great as a comic book series. Little to no limitations, new faces, and we could finally see everything come into play. ALSO ROBIN??? HUH???
Also, I feel like Gordon and a couple of others know.
Great video as usual, Pup! I always love the Gotham stuff, so this was definitely a treat.
I do have a few thoughts on the matter, and it may be quite long of a comment as a result, so I'll try to keep it easy to read (for those interested) by spacing it out a bit into chunks.
I think a major reason for this issue is how few episodes they were left with in the final season. Then on top of that, they chose to use those episodes to juggle an over-arching season plot, several new villain-of-the-week characters, giving closure to long-running characters and plots/storylines, finishing a show well, giving fans what they wanted, etc. And they had to do all of that in what, ten episodes?
I was worried from the minute I heard how few episodes there were going to be in the final season, and even more so when they announced all of the new characters and concepts they were going to try to introduce. In the end, I was glad with what we got to an extent, but I feel my fears were realized to a degree as well.
I personally feel that if there was no way of getting more than ten episodes, they absolutely should have focused completely on the already existing plot lines and characters, as well as giving satisfying closure to what we'd seen up until that point. Oh, and paying off some setups as well (like you and someone else mentioned in a different thread, all of those training scenes with bruce learning to fight didn't lead up to much in the end). The little bits of that stuff that we got really worked in my opinion. I loved seeing the fully realized Penguin and Riddler, with these two great, perfectly cast actors running around in their brilliant comic booky costumes, getting stopped by an early Batman. It was fun at the very least, but also very fulfilling and satisfying after having watched their arcs and stories up until this point.
But being as attached to these interpretations of these characters as I was by this point of the show, I feel it was far too brief, and they were a little one note, and even a tad bit one dimensional in this form, at least compared to how deep and rich they were up until this point. They were played as a joke, for crying out loud.
Hell, I even liked aspects J-Crusty, though he certainly wasn't my favorite of this shows "three Jokers" so to speak.
*TL;DR*
They just didn't give themselves enough time to wrap things up as satisfyingly as possible and answer all the questions we would inevitably have. I liked what we got, but I can't help but feel that even with ten episodes, they could have done a lot better if only they had managed the available time better and focused on that rather than introducing new things and characters. Just my thoughts on the matter. I would love to hear what anyone else thinks about this!
I really liked and hated this show, some of the characters were done amazingly (Penguin, Riddler, Bullock etc.) Others however... ( Mr Freeze, Court of Owls, Barbara etc.) Dampened the show and the ending was the nail on the head.
You should it has its flaws but still
Bullock was my favorite character in the show and I liked the chemistry between the Selina Kyle and Bruce, it kinda ruined it when they recasted it I think at the finale and the joker like he was so easy to kill just 2 batarangs and that's it
I wish that the legion of horribles was used more often when Penguin and Riddler escaped the van, if there was a 2 parter.
One of my problems was the Selina Kyle thing and how they replace her at the last minute. I understand why they did it, but it felt kind of off given how much the original actress was there from the start of the series and not in the finale if you understand what I mean.
Well it would make sense she is older
She wanted to do it she said she didnt want to play the character ten years later
I agree with u in most of the parts of the video except for Joker knowing who Batman is because Joker honestly doesnt care if he was a regular guy or a rich billioner he only cares about the mask and you can see that in Batman Beyond Return of The Joker flashback were he finds that out and then just calls him Bruce when he starts making fun of his origins and then keeps on calling him Batman Joker doesnt give a shit he knows who Batman is but chooses not to tell or use that info because it makes their relationship listen "fun" for him
Video: What went wrong with Gotham's Batman?
Me: The suit.
“You can’t have a joker who knows Batman’s identity”
John Doe: “allow me to introduce myself”
Should I watch this? It looks like "smallville" level alternate reality shenanigans to me. Bruce meets Selina early in life? There's a younger bane? WTF is this nonsense?
I have the entire show on my computer and never watched past episode 3 of the first season and now I dunno whether i should
Watch it
Don’t watch it
Gotham got screwed over between Disney buying Fox, The CW Crises ignoring Gotham all together do to a grudge, cutting the final season being Cut in half, hiding Batman till the last moment on purpose (at least David Mouoz was willing where the suit is unlike Tom Welling with Superman to this day) the irony being Gotham ratings were better then any of the other DC shows right now go figure.
I do like the idea of joker knowing that batman is Bruce because he probably wouldn’t really care because the joker would see that batman completes him and would never expose him for it, like in The Dark Knight, New 52 and the Tell Tale Series. However it could have been done a bit better to explain it
For the love of all deities Jeremiah isn't the Joker, the producers all stated it already. Just because Jeremiah's final status wasn't clear in 5x12, it didn't mean he lived on as THE JOKER. I understand we Gothamites all want to give Cameron Monaghan the credit he deserves because he's obviously the Joker of our dream both as Jerome and Jeremiah. We know it, but we have to keep in mind that they put the 5x12 together with the mindset that Jeremiah wasn't destined to be the Joker of Batman's Rogue gallery.
But I agree with you about the Batsuit and how they singlehandedly turned Penguin and Riddler into comic relief after spending 4 seasons straight to shape these roles into badass villains. Like come on, that Penguin who went through all the troubles just to take revenge on Tabitha in the worst way possible, how can he suddenly become that dumb?
Tbh I'd like to pretend for the rest of my life that the whole finale episode didn't exist. I'm so mad about it. Everything is wrong. I personally don't think ss5 was that bad, with all the problems involved they'd done what they could to deliver a somewhat entertaining season, but the time skip ain't it.
One problem you didnt include in this video is how the subject of Bruce's (bat) phobia was never brought up in Gotham. He didn't shape himself into a giant bat because he felt like it randomly. It didn't make any sense. But I don't think it's a plot hole, they may have planned to bring it up in the future seasons, Gotham was supposed to last for 7 seasons or more. The whole case is just upsetting and unsettling and so very wrong because of the sudden discontinue.
That's just something they say to avoid getting sued.
Originally the plan was for neither Jerome nor Jeremiah to be the Joker but clearly that fell through, and this new character who "climbed out from the primordial ooze that was" Jeremiah is implied to become the Joker Batman will face, once he finds that name.
The reason why Gothan doesn't work and didn't work was because no one involved wanted to make a Gothan story.
Batman's rougues gallery, chronologically, either apper after him or right before he does in the world.
Having all the villians being seeded from day one was (to me) transparent as to how the writers just wanted to make a Batman story.
I can't go too much further in detail as this comment would be kilometric, but a simple thing to think is: if a pre-Batman Gothan worked without Batman, with super villains, why would there be a need for Batman? All the menaces in the story prior to B-man's arrival HAD to be manageable. Supervillains aren't menageable by cops --- and much less without the villains being killed.
6:11 - that's the entire show, though. It's a series of people no putting it togethers.
The suit is just awful like wtf it looks like a trash can
Because it is a prototype suit this is Bruce's first suit so it will change as times go
@@maadtee6281 that's a lame excuse. Batman's prototype suits looks miles better than this. For example the batman begins suit, the robert pattinson batsuit, and the zero year batsuit
@@pizzatime4204 oh you mentioning movie batman suits what about dark knight batman his suita changes over time as he improves them so not a lame excuse especially for a suit which was going to he shown once
I really hope there is a batman series so we understand the things we didn't understand
I think finale was fine because it story about time before batman, the main character is gotham. If you seen hiptop films channel he claims that gotham creates heroes and sometimes demons. You can't blame showrunners when they said you see batman at final shot. You can't blame them for rushing the finale, if they were given 10 episode run. Only 2 additonal at last minute. In trailer it said prepare yourself for the end of Gotham.
Even actor who played Bruce Wayne said he only shot 3/4 of the finale hence why he wasnt there in 10 year time skip. They explained their story and it was satisfying final episode in my opinion
The whole episode is taken from gcpd perspective not batman hence why you dont see his face till last minute in same style as he first appearence in comics before his debut in batman comics in 1940
What went wrong?
Gotham’s Batman existed. That’s what went wrong. The show forgot what it set out to do by pandering to fans who can’t even spell the word “canon”. It was never supposed to be a Batman show and the amount of people completely ignoring that fact is shocking to me.
I would have had Gotham being more like the Joker film with Thomas and Martha Wayne alive and Bruce a young boy.
I'd have the series deal with organised crime and police corruption and lead up to the death of the Waynes over a period of time.
Nigel Walker Yup, that would’ve been absolutely perfect!
@@levischorpioen Thanks. I feel that exploring the corruption of that world gives a broader context to Bruce's motivation. Its not just anger at the man who killed his parents but at the world that allowed it to happen.
@@nigelwalker6103 That would’ve given both subgroups in the fandom what they wanted and, more importantly, what they were promised: A look into the early days of Gordon on his way to becoming commissioner, while also setting Gotham up to be the city that allowed Batman into existence. I honestly feel like the producers must have realized this at some point, but deciding to start off the show the way they did sealed their fate.
For the 2021 batman movie, they should have the last episode from Gotham in the movie.
Same suit for 30 minutes in the movie, upgrade the suit.
Have David from Gotham as actor. (Young Bruce Wayne)
Robert Pattinson for older Bruce Wayne .
For all of you hating on he batsuit, let me tell you. Fox had just planned to cancel Gotham and the producers didnt have much time to come up with a good batsuit in a short amount of time and plus. Its Year 1 Batman he still needs to grow
Other sources say that they Warner bros to borrow a suit from the movies but they said no
I still love the show and I personally enjoyed the finale for what it was and I see your point (which is very accurate) but it's best to leave the problems out of the shows and movies you love to avoid disappointing yourself
Joker knowing isn’t really that much of an issue- it’s everyone else. Joker usually knows- but he doesn’t care- because Batman is who he likes to play with- not Bruce. However- The way Jeremiah is obsessed with Bruce is definitely the problem.
Joker knowing Bruce in Batman is ok, joker just doesn’t care. It was that way in the New 52 and that continuity and other comics so it’s not unheard of. Bruce even visits joker in Arkham but joker just stares mundanely because he’s only interested in batman now.
6:13 Wait a minute Pup. If you remember in the finale, Gordon says at the beginning of the 10 year time jump that someone was attacking the gangs downtown beginning "a few weeks ago." AKA Batman. But everyone and the newspapers said that Bruce Wayne was returning to Gotham either that very day or has been back at least a few days prior.
Everyone believes that Bruce JUST came back but in actuality, he's been back for almost a month already as Batman and came up with this alibi to throw off suspicion.
Batman logic:
* beat up bad guys instead of using his wealth to fix underlying social, political, and economic issues in Gotham because the city is bad *
isn't that why he's batman, so he can do both?
Yeah, I gave up on this series after season two when they screwed up the Court of Owls. How the hell can you frak'd that up?
Guys, keep in mind that they were limited with what they could do with the batsuit, one of those limits being that they had to create a batsuit that has not been seen in any other comic or movie.
Ya know I just would like to see his blue yellow and grey color scheme on one of these stupid batsuits. Like the 70 s era suit from the comics.
I honestly didnt mind gotham, it could have been better, but i love David as young bruce wayne...
Bane and Joker already knows in the comic. Bane basically used it in Knightfall in breaking Bruce. Joker simply doesn’t care.
Commissioner Gordon also is hinted at knowing just not caring because he trusts Batman
WB: ok make a shitty ish good ish batsuit and u can't use joker
Fox: ight bet
I really loved this suit and I am hoping for a gotham sequel simply called “Batman” and I know it will never happen and that makes me sad.
We've had like 6 different movie Batmen in the past few decades, yet we can't get a single one on TV. Really sucks.
This entire show looks like cosplay.
They act like it too
What about jerome
@@bhughessr20 overplays it. When something's dialed up to ten all the time, there are no extreme moments
I just wish we had more batman in it and i dont really mind the suit i mean he literally just came back to gotham and he basically just became the batman officially
Went wrong by rushing the last few episodes of season 12 man other than that i absolutely love it one of my top 5 fav shows
You have to give an A to the show for being able to take a young boy to becoming a man. That alone is hard enough. They actually accomplished it Bruce Wayne to Batman in a five year period. I would say cut the show some slack. The better way to look at it is (this is just one different dimension’s version of Batman). Do not dwell on it when you have many other Batman movies or versions of the Batman’s stories around. Gotham was a win!
I think only reason Jeremiah knows Bruce is Batman is because Ra’s probably shared with him in season 4 about who Bruce would become as seen in his vision. He always knew it would happen, he just waited 10 years for it to come to be.
I will tell you what went wrong with him, his suit
I'm so glad I gave this show a chance. I wish they would have given us a full last season.
The Batsuit looked too much like Chris Nolan version.They should had made it dark gray still make it black but make it look like the comics.
There is nothing wrong with Gotham, it's an amazing show.
The Dark Knight Of Christian Bale Is Better Than
Gotham Show 🤣
What sucks is I think they could’ve still made Jeremiah’s obsession with Bruce really work. Like, after falling into acid, Jeremiah forgets almost everything, except for one person who he felt understood him, and who he felt was the brother he never had, but he doesn’t remember who it was, or who Bruce Wayne is even. But then he projects that idea on to Batman. So deep in his mind, Batman is filling the hole in Joker’s head that Bruce Wayne left, except he doesn’t know who he was, he is simply someone he remembers. This could’ve been such an INTERESTING take on Joker’s obsession and “friendship” with Batman
They should've done a 2 hour finale to better elaborate on these discrepancies in my opinion and made the suit a lot better or another season because that finale hurt me being a batman fan after seeing many other appearances ie. Keaton, bale. Etc.
I still like the suit no matter what 🦇
The thing about telling the origin of a story everyone already knows the ending too is that you just have that inevitable ending looming over the whole thing “when does Bruce become Batman?”
“When does Jim grow his mustache”
“When does Jim become commissioner?”
“When does catwoman turn evil”
ETC. their were so much predictable things in this
Penguin
Riddler
Joker
ETC.
Well actually at the beginning of the episode when Gordon Bullock are talking to mayor They say the first sightings of Batman Actually happen to week earlier As him attacking the east side games
To be honest my idea for Gotham is that at the end of season 3 Bruce becomes Pre-Batman. The beginning of season 4 takes place 6 years in the future as Bruce has left to learn how to become a "Businessman". By episode 4 Batman comes to Gotham dawning the Zero Year outfit. He's been fighting against Penguin, Barbara, and Falcone. My idea for Jerome is that he does know Bruce is Batman but he doesn't care as he just cares for Batman now.
A lot of the rogues know who Batman is and don't care. Joker usually knows, Ra's Al Ghul, Bane, Catwoman of course, and sometimes Riddler. It would be a much bigger problem if Falcone or Maroni found out.
The series had too many characters, and far too many were weak, but it was fun till the terrible final season. The best character was easily Alfred Pennyworth; the worst was Selina Kyle.
Why do people not like that suit? I love it!
Gotham's batman was totally believable if u know the comics cause in some version the joker knows who batman Robin and batgirl are and in some version of the comics jim knows who batman is and became a version of batman himself so how believable Gotham's batman is to u come down to your comic knowledge of batman and his world
I think you're right it was incomplete ... Like maybe instead of seeing Batman in the fainale they could of just ended the show with Bruce leaving Gotham ... They didn't even need the time jump. That way it could of been clear weither or not everyone knew or not that Batman was Bruce Wayne.
And if they needed to end with the time jump then maybe they could of done everything but the batman stuff because as you said fans could of just watched a Batman movie for that.
The biggest problem was that they rushed the show.
I want David Mazouz and Carmen Bicondova to be Batman and Catwoman in a high budget Warner Bros movie like 10y from now. With a real costume this time. They were amazing in Gotham.
i dindn't like how peguin, riddler and joker had been in prison all the ten years bruce was away. it's like time stopped, they were frozen there not doing anything, with 0 character development for 10 entire years, making the time passing feel more inconsistent.
i feel like every super hero based show just tries to be too edgy. its just cringey at this point
The reason why the joker know Bruce Wayne is Batman because Ras al Gul was mentioning a dark knight of Gotham
Someone gets it
Gotham would’ve been awesome if there was 5 more seasons
Tf would they do for another 5 seasons
I rember in one comic Riddler found out batmans identity but he won't say it because its the ultimate riddle, a riddle that only he knows of. So maybe if Gotham continued they could have done that.
I really don’t care how the Batman suit look like
Me too I don’t really care about how the batsuit looks
Another way I could've saw Gotham ending is if we saw older Bruce returning to Gotham after training and he's trying to find out exactly "how" to fight crime in Gotham. We see Bruce contemplating this while sitting in his chair in the study when suddenly a bat crashes through the window. Bruce looks up and stares at the bat as if he's in a trance and the screen goes black. Or at least add a scene where Bruce is scribbling on a notepad and Alfred comes up behind him and stares at what Bruce is drawing. Alfred asks Bruce what he drew and Bruce answers with something like "The light in darkness" or something and we see his rough draft of a batsuit (resembling a modern version of his first appearance suit).
I think they had too wait until Bruce (The actor) to grow, sorry if I am wrong.. I did not see the whole series.
Another Gotham video!? What a blessing from the gods
Since the final was really rushed, maybe it would have been better if this episode was a two-parter. So that they could have more time to establish this future Gotham.
it's a family skow at some point he was in her. ask your mother if she can tell if your father standing behind her my point is there is a bond with someone you love.
Do you think that there is a chance that if primrose got the rights to Batman the would make a spin-off show explaining how the secret identity thing works I know it's unlikely but fun to think about
Thats a Batman that cant even afford hockey pads