What If the Balkan Wars Didn't Happen?
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- Опубліковано 14 вер 2022
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#whatif #Worldwarone #WW1 #worldwar1 #Bulgaria #Serbia #Turkey #Alternatehistory #History
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In this video I look at an alternate history about what if the Balkan Wars didn't happen between 1912 and 1913. Only a year and a half before the First World War these wars drastically changed the borders and diplomacy of the Balkans. Without the war over Libya by Italy and the Ottomans this Balkan War might have been pushed back for a little while, leading to a combination of the Balkan war and WW1.
This leads to a different WW1 where all the Balkan nations stand united against Austria and the Ottomans. The main benefactor for this is Bulgaria, as they are no longer the Balkan nation that got defeated twice in the span of five years, but are part of the winning team. In the end, Bulgaria becomes a more dominant nation in the Balkans at the expense of a reduced Yugoslavia, Greece and Macedonia. Also Turkey lost most of Eastern Thrace.
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I got a question. Why did you make Yugoslavia like Serbia? Serbia will have to get quick good quantity of Russian soldiers through Romania since the Macedonian lands be in Ottoman hand. They be half the size and inexperienced army like A&H. We the rest of the balkan league could do fine against Ottomans if entente helps with a force equivalent to that of Serbia but also makes sure front line there doesn't fall on our heads. I doupt my county Bulgaria will hold so much of Eastern Thrace tho. Too close to such a vlauab ke strategic asset like Istanbul for us to be granted that opportunity. Ottomans likely will suffer more in shorter time than falling in 1918 when Istanbul hadn't been scratched.
hi
Hi
What do you mean "Macedonians"? Never heard of 'em!
Ok jokes aside calling the people who lived in Macedonia pre-WW2 "macedonians" seems historically innacurate, nobody called themselves as such at the time -- not the bulgarians, not the serbs, not the albanians. I think macedonian bulgarians or (macedonian slavs if youwant to be more ambigious) is more accurate.
hi
this has been fact-checked by true bulgarian patriots
Ahhhhhh damn you tsar Ferdinand T-T
yes it was
I like this
Yes
*Bulgayrian
I just wanted to ask if in the WW2 scenario, would an axis-aligned Yugoslavia attempt to annex and "integrate" Bulgaria.
Yugoslavia in this scenario won't exist as a Serbian empire as in our timeline, neither so big either but anyways it won't join the axis. Italy and Hungary would be both enough interested in the land that Yugoslavia would hold. The Serbs have been the most favourable to Russia compared to the rest of us.
Civil war speedrun
Germany, Italy, and Hungary would still have claims in Yugoslavia, but I can see them give their approval for the subjugation of an Allies-friendly Bulgaria in return for Yugoslavia ceding these claimed regions.
Probally, as Yugoslavia was trying to unite the south slavs, and in our time-line, the yugoslavians joined (forcefully) the axis.
You say 'Macedonians' all the time but the fact is people called themselves Bulgarians before WW2. So I do not believe Macedonia would have autonomy simply because there won't be a Macedonian nationality at all.
exactly
True
Ναι
its cause makedonians are greeks and skopjans are not macedonians but western bulgars
@@TheHunterOfYharnam yep
I love you, big Bulgaria is a w for the world and this is like the third video of yours that has Bulgaria take Thrace and Macedonia, you are a respected man in glorious Bulgaria
This is one of the better "What if" scenarios I've seen in some time. Good job on the research. I however seriously doubt that the Macedonian region would want autonomy without the Tito regime having control over the area.
Maybe now bulgaria can into shengen
Lmao maybe
hopefull
No thanks, I'd rather see Borat in cinemas than in my streets
Still no lol
videos on the balkans are always the best! Keep up the good work🫡
Great piece of alternate history!
Great channel, nothing much to say but I want to say it, keep up the great work!
Recommend reading the CIA document called the Macedonian question, or if you are more in to books - Black Hand over Europe. Macedonians were Bulgarian and they hated the Macedonian identity forced upon them. As for the Borders, Bulgaria would demand San Stefano Borders. It was the core goal, much like how Alsace-Lorraine was for France, however they would likely leave out Mangalia (small land over Bulgarian Dobruja), Nis and Pirot (Serbian majority lands) and would allow for Greece to be connected with Thessaloniki, in exchange they would almost definitely take the Thracian lands to the east as shown in your video.
As for the war itself I disagree with the outcome. First of all Austria and Germany would almost definitely not conquer Serbia without the Prussia of the Balkan's help. Bulgaria was effectively the only ally to Germany that did it's job and did not underperform. At most they would take Belgrade, but it is not a total loss. If Bulgaria joined Entente even that would not happen. They would overwhelm the Ottomans and would force a much earlier surrender, since their capital would be under siege by not only Bulgarians, but British and Russian reinforcements. No naval disaster of Gallipoli and the Entente would be very well reinforced.
This would give a huge moral boost and legitimacy to the Russian Empire and would heavily demoralize the Central Powers. The domino effect would be MASSIVE and would make post ww1 world unrecognizable.
Regardless I enjoyed the video a lot and I wanted to say Good Job!
Just imagine having gen. Vazov and gen. Kolev defending one front. The defence of Doiran happening at Belgrade and the father of cavalry ravaging Austrians rather than Russians. How could Serbia fall with Bulgaria's best at their side?
THRACE IS GREEK
@@kalez963 Funny internet man says no, so it's not.
Great video. May I sugest for a next video the topic of "how the yugoslavian desintegration might have been adverted?"
Great and realistic analysis/theory.
I love these videos so much! Pls keep making them
In this scenario there might not even be a macedonian identity.
There was, but most of the people who became modern Macedonians identified as Bulgarian.
I really enjoyed the video
Hello! Great work, hope your channel grows.
Super easy, barely an inconvenience
I love this guys references to other channels
(Ryan George)
Great video! Good job!!
Lol the Ryan George reference
Great vid 😁👍
Nice video
since serbia gained so much land it would be kinda unrealistic to not give the whole of macedonia to bulgaria
Hi! For the algorithm!
I like this tineline. Sadly we can't choose in which timeline we can live
You should correctly mention that the entire Ottoman remnant in the Western Balkans consisted of four Albanian vilayets (provinces) which were planned to merge into one. Immediately after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the Albanians' desire for independence, its neighboring countries occupied Albanian territories and resettled, murdered and expelled the Albanians en masse. More than half of all Albanian territories remained outside present-day Albania.
Interesting take
If the Balkan Wars didn’t happen, the Universe would spontaneously implode
This shows how much PH has improved in creating his history videos.
nice video
Fun fact:The Prussia of Balkans wasnt storngest faction on Balkan,strongest one was Serbia and Greece 😊
"extremely easy, barely an inconvenience" I see you 👀
Truly, a time to remember
One thing that I would like to ask is that in our timeline, there have been numerous attempts to unify Bulgaria and Romania, but all these attempts were prevented by other powers, mainly Russia. In this alternate timeline, with Bulgaria emerging victorious after World War One and Russia being very weak in the immediate aftermath of the Great War, would Bulgaria be able to unite with Romania and create a Balkan superstate?"
Most likely not. The original attempts at unification would be way in the past and after both sides achieve their irredentist ambitions there would be little reason to unify. I bet Romania and Bulgaria would keep very warm relations and act as allies within the Międzymorze.
Greece would most definitely conquer Asia Minor in this timeline
doubt it
If only
Hahahahaha sure lil bro
@@0rph33 “lil bro” provide an argument. In this timeline the Balkan wars don’t happen and the Balkans are allied. Assistance in turkey is very probably and the reason greece lost is because Venizelos was removed because the population was war weary. Since the Balkan wars didn’t happen, they would have only been at war for 3 years rather than 8.
@@thebalkanhistorian.3205 Wow that's actually rlly interesting tell me more😯
I think it would be like 1923 edirne border, since Enver pasha knew late or not that the ottomans needed to form an defense line in the balkans but he couldn’t do it with crisis and huge debt. Maybe in those years he would do more effort in that but giving edirne to bulgarians is like giving berlin to poland. More accurate thing could happen is Greece getting edirne or The Ottomans defending edirne.
No? Giving edirne to Bulgaria is very logical, as it was majority Bulgarian populated, and it has been apart of the Bulgarian states for hundreds of years.. it’s definitely NOT like “giving Berlin to Poland”
@@zlatnialev It is not the city is Turkish since the years of ottomans in 1300 and it has an huge Turkish majority compared to Bulgarian. So in this scenario Edirne would stay as Turkish
ADRIANOPLE IS RIGHTFULLY GREEK, AND MAJORITY BULGARIA IS BS ADRIANOPLE IS GREEK! THRACE IS GREEK!@@zlatnialev
We should assume in all scenarios that Fransz Ferdinand gets shot or we won't get "Take me out" I don't care about their other songs though.
I’m sorry was that a pitch meeting reference
I like PH
I like the scenario
I like the dominant and united slavdom
even the aliens in ww1 theory is more likebly
Always bothers me about what happened to Bulgaria after the 2nd Balkan war.
I would not be wrongfully convicted of tax evasion September 28th
🤨🤨
Ngl i think Greece would get Thrace. If im correct, Britain/Commonwealth nations liberated Greece, so what would stop them from taking thrace out of the Soviets getting ports in the Mediterranean, plus if they were still an Axis power i don't think anyone would oppose Bulgaria losing land (Hungary and Romania lost land to the Soviets in our timeline, not as much as Bulgaria would be but the border changes are still notable
Sovoets liberated thrace i think and gave it back after the war
No Italo Turkish war means the ottomans have Libya in ww1 which means there’d be a Libyan front but I guess any forces there would be cut off and wouldn’t last long since Britain has a better navy and the French coming from Algeria and British in Egypt could do a pincer movement so I guess it makes sense why he didn’t bring it up
Super easy barely an inconvenience
nice story
Hello! Hope yall having a great day!
any world with smaller turkey id good
Each bloß Du sprichst deutsch Possible History? Die Karte bei 00:33 war deutsch
Wait are you dutch?😮
Cool
Yeah the quality of his vídeos hás improved a lot
Honestly I don't think Balkan nations could push the Ottomans. At the first balkan war Ottomans didn't have an army in the Balkans because they had no money. And almost all of the Great powers thought Ottomans were gonna win. Because even if the Ottomans were dying, they were still much more stronger than some little balkan nations. So in this scenario, Ottomans do have an army in Balkans so, without Russian help, cutting Ottoman lands in two wouldn't be possible. Of course Russians would help but with Germans helping the Ottomans, I don't think they could cut it off. Also with this scenario Ottomans have a bigger army and industry and also they didn't give 120 thousand guns to Balkan nations (cuz they didn't lose the balkan war) so holding the Russians, Balkan nations and English would be easier. I'm not sure if it can make the central powers win tho.
I think Bulgaria still could have joined the Axis for the rest of Macedonia as well as for Thessaloniki.
Bulgaria owning Thrace and Macedonia would be a W, as they are rightfully theirs.
In this timeline there would be no "macedonians" in bulgaria
Ww1 if it was wholesome and based 😳😳🇧🇬⁉️
What if Georing just ate Russia? :v
This man should be paid more
Lore of What If the Balkan Wars Didn't Happen momentum 100
common turk W
I will sub to you since I am against communism
@@thegreatestoctopus9739 based
I will sub cus i hate communism
Anatolia is rightfully ALBANIAN 🇦🇱😱😱‼️‼️
A better world fr (Im biased because Im bulgarian)
Hello Possible history. I have become a fan of your new and growing channel. Man I loved the ending. The only thing which annoyed me is the fantasy land that looks like Yugoslavia. This scenario changes a lot. If Romania joins the war then still Serbia is very likely to be conquered. They be half the size and with no experienced big army for that population they had in our reality. They would have absolutely no power to negotiate the for a damn village in Macedonia. Others in the balkan league would have to get support from Russia and west entente since Serbia won't fight on our side. Much up to debate whether Serbs would dare say no to A&H and then fight them but whatever. It is likely that A&H wins against Serbia so we will need hundreds of thousands soldiers to keep the north west flank. Likely west entente would do it. My best scenario for the period has been that we just don't start the 2nd balkan war and go in entente 1915 if Ottomans join. Some good loot from Istanbul and supporting Serbia for the rest of Macedonia that we had agreed to decide before 1st balkan war then all that will do. Then become proper allie of 1 neighbour so 2 others won't be enough to go against us. I would like an Union primarily with Greece so we can expell the Ottomans for ever out of Europe. Maybe such scenario as yours would make it too big of a struggle for them in ww1 since they'd fight more entente forces while fighting most of us too. Istanbul may be navally blockaded and war could go into Asia minor. Through if only Greece and Bulgaria maybe left to defend then we will be exhausted too. Maybe Ataturk has some decent shot at recapturing Istanbul in such cause.
Kosovo is Serbia. Also… Tibet is China. Alaska is Russia. Kuwait is Iraq. Texas is Mexico. Turkey is Armenia. Korea is Japan. Russia is Mongolia. And that’s about it.
nicse dreams
Damn, dude's fucking lost it in this one
Hi!!
the fact that almost nothing changed on the map just shows how close we are to living in the worst timeline
How is this the worst timeline? There is less turkey, this timeline is better
@@wtr3059 bulgaria controlling macedonia is what makes it worse
There is a smaller greece, so it is indeed the worst timeline@@wtr3059
Hi 👋
“Macedonians”: Bulgarians larpung as a Greek nation while simultaneously claiming to be neither.
I feel as the brotherhood and unity agenda would spread Bulgaria would have joined Yugoslavia and been a dominant player or after the nationalists started bickering they’d team up with one side to decide the other. Either way I see the 90’ and the two thousands as years in which our borders would be a lot less ethnically clean…
yeah, maybe they would be the other dominat ethnic group in yugoslavia, meaning maybe bulgaria would become the serbia of today, and serbia doing like other ex-yu countries and joining NATO after splitting up since they werent the only big dog that controlls most stuff, even though they realistically kind of didnt but they had lots o support
@@tonymatic1704 But if Bulgaria would’ve joined, it would have dominated henceforth wanted to preserve Yugoslavia. It would likely join the side that wanted to keep the federation. Either the Serbs would’ve also wanted that and so Yugoslavia would continue existing or Serbs would do what the Croats did and there’d be a Serbio-Bulgarian war. Serbia would likely take Republika Srpska and Bulgaria parts if not all of Macedonia.
Based
Biggest issue is that serbia probobly wouldnt be the reason the war happens so its unlikely the alliances would be the same and the war would start later from something non balkan, meaning different alliances and stuff
hi!
Hello!
Ok first of all serbian claism on Macedonia dont matter since that is like Bulgaria claiming Anatolia, its close yet there is nothing bulgarian there.
second no macedonian would want autonomy if they werent occupied and brainwashed by Serbia tbgw so Macedonia is fully integral part of Bulgaria ethincally and culturally.
Why iam frustrated is that
Bulgaria does 60 percent of the balkan war alone yet hardly reveives more territory than Greece and Serbia then gets betrayed for demanding. Thats backstabbing allies for you.
Fax💯
what is this thumbnail
Prussia of the Balkan but can't form Yugoslavia under their sphere, but Serbia (Austria of the Balkan) can form Yugoslavia under them
France created Yogoslavia 😉
Hi
WW1, but the central powers are one Bulgaria weaker
😂 sure 👀 Bulgatlria is 4mili9ns have 700000 army al alies Gentral power is country 15 milions + normal big Army.
@@stanbatakarata6081 I don't understand what you mean.
I'm just gonna say that I don't underrate Bulgarian importance to the Central Powers, specially when it comes to defeating Serbia and Romania
@jorgeabud1133 brother you dind undarstand undarstand my meaning.I ,m Bulgarian bro I seay Bulgaria no have big Army .I,m telling you that if Bulgaria had an Army as large as AustoHungay in would turn the trid.Thanks for yours comment bro.
Hello
hi
As a Bulgarian this video hurts me emotionally
hello
Algorithm
🇵🇼
power
iH
Balls
W
HI
Hallo
H
The waffle house has found it's new host
It's unacceptable how you released this video in late 2022 and yet keep referring to the lands of the former FYROM, current North Macedonia as simply Macedonia.
Macedonia becoming part of Bulgaria means something totally different.
Hewwo UwU
What if Mexico had won .wxican American war
All balkan clay rightfull albanian clay👐💪💪🇦🇱🇦🇱🏳️🌈🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱💪
Albania is Bulgaria!! ☝😀🐎🐎❤🏹
As a Bulgarian I’m PROUD TO BE ALBANIA 🇦🇱 I LOVE ALBANIA 😈😈👆RED AND BLACK I DRESS EAGLE ON MY CHEST ITS GOOD TO BE AN ALBANIAN 😤😤😤
bigguria
The central conceit of this video just doesn't work.
The immediate basis for the outbreak of WW1 was the greatly-intensified competition of AH and Russia for the destabilized Balkans in the wake of the Ottoman rollback during the Italo-Turkish war and the Balkan wars. This was also the basis for Serbian FP switching to irredentism towards Bosnia. Prior to this, their FP focus had been obtaining southwestern Serbia and Macedonia from the Ottomans.
I don't see any realistic motive for WW1 to break out in this timeline in a manner remotely similar to how it broke out in our timeline. WW1 is not some static, predestined event, as if the Entente and the Triple Alliance were unified power blocks, inexorably barreling towards a clash of civilizations, forever destined to begin with the assassination of an archduke on June 28th in Sarajevo. It was a culmination of interests which conflicted in exactly the right way at exactly the right moment, along with a staggering series of mistakes and miscommunications in exactly the wrong combination.
To take this even further, Britain had been moving very quickly towards detente with Germany from 1912 onward, and had been pulling back from its alignment with Russia, which it saw at the time as a more important long-term strategic competitor. Though it's important to note that their relations with France remained quite excellent.
From 1912 as well, Germany was also increasingly defining Russia as its central foreign policy predicament. If war had not broken out when it had, we easily could have seen the alliance structures have broken down, leading to any eventual Great Power struggle being significantly less global in nature, as the sort of "Stately Quadrile" shifted Germany and Britain together to oppose Russia, and shifted Italy openly into the graces of France and Russia, before any war were to have broken out.
Even so, there was no guarantee that the alliance structures would hold in practice. The school of inevitability of WW1 is an anachronism which needs to be combated in the modern day.
I'd have to agree. Somehow it seems like if I am the Serbian side in such scenario I wouldn't won't to do 1 damn wrong move on A&H as 1st to act. In cause the balkan wars dont happen then everything else goes as it did for ww1 to start exactly the way he claimed it would start I am 100% sure Serbia doesn't create anything like Yugoslavia. Serbia would not last 5 mins unfortunately. In real history they doubled size and had hundreds of thousands veterans in &2 wars which happent so recently that even former peasants with no training would remember the skills learnt in the wars. If Romania joins then we can hope to win on balkans.
@@silvanastoeva8641 as far as i know Romania and Serbia always had very good relation :) so immediately your plan that you will win all balkan falls apart:)
Pure cope
This video is very unrealistic, as a Greek I can assure you the Balkan powers would have invaded the Ottoman Empire even if Italy didn’t invade Libya, because the Ottomans had a ton of land that they couldn’t possibly defend so I think this video is stupid.