I've been viewing GCN for the better part of 8 years and want to make sure that GCN is around. Love the channel and what you guys do. Best of luck in being able to create great content for years to come. Also, really enjoyed your series on getting older and how to keep fit. Especially since I'm 54 now and it's so very relevant.
This is without doubt GCN at its best. Dan’s skill in researching and developing in-depth topics coupled with his knowledge and expertise and his peerless presentation talent makes videos like this unmatched! Thank you guys. Keep’em coming!
Agreed and there's a real lack of proper sports journalism across most racing websites/magazines I find so good to see this. Plus the old 'Is alloy the new carbon?' etc etc & sub top gear banter stuff feels tired nowadays.
Love this! Here's to hoping that independence as a channel will allow GCN to produce a lot more of these sorts of videos that have great insights and opinions rather than being forced to stay middle of the road
While I love the lighthearted GCN content, the more in-depth and 'grown-up' content that Dan often presents is always fantastic quality. More of this please x
One name missing from this video is that of Nico Portal. His tragic and untimely loss in early 2020 was I think a more significant disruption to the equilibrium of the team’s DNA and culture than has ever been publicly acknowledged, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the graph started heading down after his death (though other factors in this video clearly played their part). Who knows if/how things would have been different had he been around as lead DS in the 2020s…?
I'd argue it's more that their momentum was totally halted in its pomp with Froome ending his domination with a wall and Bernal doing the same with a bus. All their GC leader development just stopped immediately. Same would happen to UAE, Jumbo or any team really. Will take 5-10 years to recover and that's what we're seeing now. They still won and podumed multiple GCs. Giro, Vuelta & Tour in the last 4 years since his death.
Yes the domination ended with froome and bernal but they have regressed further. Talent has left. Talent has not been brought on. Coaching and ds look a shambles with no structure. Cycling is a distant 4th behind man utd americas cup F1 Mercedes for ineos
Very nice to hear Luke Rowe speaking so eloquently and lucidly; he's come a long way. I'm sure he's going to be very successful in his next steps and has the potential to become a world class DS and team manager.
I think Luke Rowe has fundamentally nailed the issue, which is seen in a lot of companies outside cycling, layers of management stifles development and creates misalignment of strategy and execution and Luke would know this.😉
@@johnnewington6635 Completely agreed. It's something some of us see every day. It's as though some management consultants have taken Brailsford's Marginal Gains ethos and turned it into the usual corporate "MBO and KPI" BS! All creativity and risk has to be measured by controllers and the execution is cautious and misses the target. Anyway, Luke seems like a straight-talking operator that has just stepped off the bike, so he'll be a big asset to AG2R (shame O'Connor is leaving).
@@mhgregor, as a ‘management consultant’ I’d like to courteously disagree! I spend most of my life trying to get rid of pointless processes, unnecessary governance, vanity metrics and risk aversion. All of those things are typical of mature, large organisations. Which is what I fear Team Ineos has become. We need more of the scrappy start-up mentality to return. I can’t see that happening for the foreseeable however 😢
Content like this is what will save GCN and put it at the forefront of cycling "magazines." I will willingly wade through four product-laden show episodes to get one of these in-depth, thoughtful, and timely editorial pieces. Thank you!
This was an excellent video Dan. I particularly appreciate the respect you showed to Sky/Ineos and the numerous people that have made that team what it is over the years. You weren't looking for tabloid-style gossip and snappy soundbites. You were trying to understand the nuances of the issues they have and actually, despite their lack of race wins, come out quite well in this video as a team that has loyally supported their riders through the tough times, Pidcock notwithstanding. Chapeau.
A very slick video. So glad you've gone independent again. Dan really knows his stuff and presented that in an extremely cohesive manner. More of the same please 👍🏻
I was working for Jaguar Land Rover when Team Sky received XF Estates as team cars. Dave Brailsford gave a lecture on 'Marginal gains' applied to manufacturing industry in the Gaydon site's theatre. I was assigned to pick him up from the visitor's car park. Great guy. I being a vehicle dynamicist and amateur race cyclist, we had a deep engineering conversation about drivetrains and aerodynamics. I told him I was at the Motor Industry Research Association when Chris Boardman and Mike Burrows were testing the Lotus bike for the hour record. Dave's eyes opened. Alas, I was confined by an 'Intelectual Property' agreement with MIRA. He slumped. :-)
Well that was a departure from the usual content. Much as I love to watch Ollie and the crew batter themselves, a bit of proper journalism is always welcome. Great work Dan and team, thanks. I really hope Ineos can turn it around. As a British fan I was used to praying for Robert Miller to take the polka dots or Boardman or David Millar to win the occasional stage. To suddenly have a team winning grand tours was amazing. Watching Cav win on the Champs-Élysées in the rainbow jersey and Brad win the GC in 2012 was just the best day a British cycling fan could have. So yeah, I wish them well ‘cos I want that feeling back!
Agree entirely on Luke Rowe's comments that it got too corporate with too many layers. This creates discord in a team. Also other teams just copy-pasted Sky/Ineos, then spent more and got better - Bora, UAE, Lidl. It was just a natural cycle of success. It can't last forever.
I think "the too many layers" is the more likely reason for this down trend at Ineos. Dan Bigham expressed similar feelings at the beginning of the year (I don't recall exactly whether this was on print or on a video) that his input was just not being implemented and got frustrated by that. So it came as no surprise when he announced that he was leaving the team.
Excellent report, Dan, and we here in the States can relate to having a top team on the circuit. We had 7-Eleven to Motorola to Postal to Discovery, something like that and it was great fun to see a home team mix it up with those mighty Euro riders, tho' it was unfortunate that they eventually lowered themselves to athletic cheats in cleats. I hope Ineos can right the ship with its Mods and Rockers riding their bikes like motorcycles and scooters and Dan's cool Raleigh moped, the one with the chrome high-rise handlebars like a Schwinn Sting-Ray. :)
Ineos aren’t particularly bad it’s just the other teams have upped their games so much more and are getting results. Luke Rowes comments are spot on - gotta keep aiming for improvement and not become complacent. And Pidcock needs mud not asphalt. And maybe an attitude change. Cracking vid GCN 👌
A sponsor rather than ownership might help. I get the impression they are just part of a bigger machine and the sexy money and tech is now at the Americas Cup so the team is just spinning wheels without much incentive and the other teams have caught up. I don’t see a big change unless change is initiated; a development team and women’s team could make a difference and another headline sponsor to kick asses when the wins don’t come.
I don't think this is true. Sure, other teams have upped their budgets and this has meant they now ride like Team Sky used to in their prime, but even the so called lesser teams that don't have huge budgets or superstars I now see as having time past Ineos, and some with riders that were let go, i can only assume for budgetary reasons, like the aforementioned Eddie Dunbar. I think rider recruitment has been poor, I think the team management still gives the impression that they are a top GC chasing team when they're not, and I think those paying the bills have lost interest in the team and the sport and moved on to more lucrative ventures, in their eyes at least. If some of the financial restrictions are down to honouring Bernal's contract when they could have reduced it, whilst honourable this doesn't make any business sense to me. Surely he wouldn't been on bad wages had they chosen not to do this, maybe not instantly after his horrific crash, that would been very harsh, but after seeing his form after a while back in the pro peleton, and this would have freed up money to keep a turned rider like Yates or Dunbar as a leader at Grand Tours or being in someone new. INEOS just seem to be relying on G Thomas now and he's just not able to ride GT after GT and he competitive against the younger riders.
@@markloughran4827 And this is the problem, INEOS don't have the riders that can perform like those they had in 2019/20. I think one thing also missed from this video was the horrific injury to Chris Froome. I think had he not had that crash he'd have been around being able to podium, maybe better for a few years after that at least, and maybe even perform on the level G has. Not having him and then Bernal meant there was a massive hole in the riders at the team that I don't think they've ever recovered from. I know you could say that they don't have the money but even keeping Adam Yates and making him team leader would have plugged the gap. As it is he went to UAE, as Sivakov also did. These guys should have been kept at all costs, then letting Dunbar and stone others go wouldn't have many such a big chasm that it looks like there is now. Obviously INEOS thought these guys weren't good enough, that they'd had enough chances to prove themselves at the team and didn't, and wouldn't do much elsewhere, that or it was just they didn't want to compete financially with the now top teams. Surely you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere?
Not your normal GCN video I must say , but still , absolute quality in its layout of the subject and really shows Dan’s understanding. I don’t know enough about the dynamics of what happens in the teams but hope they do come strong again ❤
Dan, Thank you, for you wonderful reporting on a team that has brought us so much joy, excitement and talent to cycling since their inception. We can sometimes sit there, screaming at the telly, watching our team, the riders we follow and love, wishing them to win, the Wiggo's, Cav's and G'. The team, it's vitality so intrinsic to the the individual success. Of course we want Ineos to be back the room for the riders of the future...
Good to see some journalistic pieces. Bravo GCN. The Bernal situation is not unlike Froome. Massive crash, recovery, no positive impact on their teams performance.
Love this kind of content! It's great for anyone interested in cycling, regardless of skill level. And it helps the sport in general because those of us newer to it can understand more about how the competitive side of cycling works. Keep it up!
They plan and race like a grand tour winning team without the grand tour winning riders. They ride as a pack with the other GC teams with very little breakaway participation as if they are protecting the jersey when their best placed rider is barely in the top 10. Riders with stage winning potential are forced to ride as full time domestiques. Even going back to their early days you can find examples like Bosen-Hagen who would probably have won much more had he been given his head in a different team. This may be OK if you are winning the GC but must cause frustration for strong riders if you have not got one of the "big 4" on your team
One of my favourite GCN videos to date. Strategy, politics, competition, drama, discontent, achievements, vision, business decision making, personalities, opinions, planning, conflicts of interest. It all creates a fascinating montage as well is bringing up nostalgic moments and moments that have changed the face of pro cycling, whether under support, skepticism, or disbelief. More of this sort of thing!
Incredible feature, Dan. You did a terrific job of walking us through the history, the challenges, and the hope for the future. I appreciate the opportunity to give back for GCN's amazing content. Thanks!
Firstly it’s great to have proper grown up analysis from independent media ..and Dan Lloyds level of understanding and analysis is next level…Suggestions for Ineos? 1. Sponsor Trinity or Axon Bergman’s as a feeder team. This is very basic stuff but Trinity is already a super successful operation and Ineos could probably learn something about talent development from them…I’m happy to be contradicted but so far they haven’t even managed to develop Sheffield to stay on his bike consistently..and he’s not the only young rider who seems stuck at Ineos. 2. Sponsor a women’s team to create some synergy and excitement around the team and for the staff..Radcliffe is clearly something of a mysogenist - as was Brailsford but it seems to be a plus for UAE, Visma , Trek etc. 3. Improve talent ID…across the board. Sky revolutionised back room team recruitment but the only big name they’ve recruited recently - Dan B- has left because they weren’t hungry enough, searching enough or dynamic enough…and it staggering that they’re watching Luke Rowe go to Visma. 4. Whoever is in charge is an idiot. Withdrawing Pidcock from Lombardia has poisoned that relationship forever, will put off other riders who might have signed with them and makes the management look totally out of their depth. Pidcock is by far their most interesting rider and he has a big profile. Nobody is following Ineos to observe the machinations of an inept management. 5. I’m going to disagree for my final point. Running into the back of a stationary bus on a public road while doing an all out head down time trial effort isn’t unlucky - Luke Rowe breaking his leg on a stag do falling out of an inflatable raft was unlucky - Froome getting blown off course while blowing a snot rocket was unlucky if a bit careless- training like Bernal was is an accident waiting to happen. The equivalent of a pro Rally driver improving his skills on a local A road and hoping a combined harvester isn’t around the corner. This was their most valuable asset on a 5 year multi million contract…. Big Suggestion….conduct an independent review of everything, give staff anonymity when being interviewed..Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats. Cycling is my hobby. Pro cycling is a multi millions serious business at any level..at the level of Ineos too many livelihoods depend on its success for it to be run so sub-optimally on so many levels. PS DB made his bones in a sport desperate for innovation with a plan that he had developed over time and recruited incredibly well for his back room team…and then used a huge financial advantage to recruit Wiggins. Froome was a recruitment fluke, Thomas followed the Wiggins template which makes Bernal their most successful bit of recruitment ( but not development) and look what they did with him. DBs subsequent record suggests his golden moment was Froome/ Portal - Radcliffes suggests his skills are in climate destroying industries, faux Im backing Britain and highly leveraged fake ‘2 hour marathon ‘ projects..which TBF was entertaining.
Wow. Thank you. This is an interesting and really well thought out comment and it’s given me more to think about . Please, if you have the time, could you explain your last comment in a bit more depth?
I hope people from Ineos are watching as its very clear that those at the very top don't have a clue what their doing, and i'm sure could learn a lot from your insight Dan. This video along with Conors on the suspicious speeds of current riders have been two of the best GCN videos i've watched in a while,...keep it up guys and girls.
Chris Froome was at the top of his game when he was injured. Unfortunately they dropped him like a hot potato. I know he never fully recovered but it was heartbreaking to watch how they dumped him. It was good they kept Bernal.
Excellent vid, but I think you should’ve mentioned the Richard Freeman/Bradley Wiggins TUE controversy as well as Froome’s salbutamol case. I don’t think it’s a huge coincidence that Brailsford didn’t have the hands on control of the team for much longer after those stories broke.
Whilst Bernals loss was bad…it’s hard to understand how a team can have all their eggs in one basket. And the blow up relationship with Pidcock is another example of poor management
Just brilliant video. Captivating from start to finish. Saw G at the Tour in 2019. Saw Bernal at the 2020 Tour. He was incredible and yet he did not win the next two years until his crash. But this is racing. Unpredictable and the big changes often happen fast. Is Visma done for now? How long can Uae keep it up? Until Pogacar stops winning?
Wow... this is phenomenal content. I'd drifted away from GCN a couple of years ago when the sum total of insight seemed to be testing whether a great old bike was better or worse than a new sponsor's aero offer. This is so..sooooo good - great investigative work, Dan's undoubted knowlege and really nuanced in style! With more awesome content like this, there is little risk of a "Is this the end of GCN" video being made by Cade media! Thanks guys, keep up the good work!
Excellent in-depth video. More of these please! I wonder what impact on team morale has on a generational talent like Pogacar? He's almost unstoppable and no matter who you hire isn't going to win against him. What did teams do back in the Merckx days? It must have been frustrating to do your best as a team, a DS, an individual rider - and yet know you're racing against someone so good that your changes of winning are very low.
I love the dynamics of Dan presenting at a coffee shop or on a park bench! It makes it so much more informal than at the desk, and it feels like he's talking directly to me.
Being an Ineos fan is like being a Yankees fan as an American. As soon as G retires, I'll be shopping my attention around until Ineos earns my support again.
Great post race report Lionel and fantastic viewing over the last weeks. Looking forward to the next few years of watching and seeing you in Nice and back in Kona 🤟🏼
Superb video!! I watch less and less GCN these days, but if you had more videos like this I'd definitely be watching more. Keep it up! Also, love that Dan is still there as the face of GCN. Quality guy.
One of the best GCN videos ever - keep this sort of stuff coming :) I think Dan is a natural with pieces like this - he's really engaging and open and you'd think he'd been a broadcaster all his life looking at this masterclass of presentation. Love it! And I agree with him, I hope that Ineos DO recover because the sport will be much more interesting when they do.
Super interesting video. I’ve been wondering why Ineos has been struggling and have had my own uneducated guesses. It sure is nice to have an educated analysis of this situation to provide more clarity.
Brilliant video Dan which wasn’t all about the current Pidcock saga. As an ex world tour rider you know the mechanics of how things work, and delivered it in a unique and unbiased way. Best GCN video of the year!
Thanks Dan and crew . Did you finish the coffee ? I hope Ineos stays relevant and competitive for years to come . I know very little about the business/sport , but it seems more is better ? More teams , competition , etc ??
Great piece Dan. I think you nailed it with the comment about honoring Egan’s contract in full, which is something I don’t think the team gets enough credit for.
I think this happened to Team Ineos after they dropped Chris Froome after his crash, Froome said that he still had a lot left in him to win the tour but just like that Team Ineos just left him, that maybe the reason why some riders doesn’t want to sign or go to Team Ineos, and the rest is what they say is Karma.
Great video, fair and well balanced, well done Dan and GCN. Having worked for a large organisation, we would always say ‘too many chiefs and not enough workers and that seems to be the case with Ineos. They’ve lost what cycling is all about the fans, the racing and the passion. As a Sky/ ineos fan the connection with fans at the start was good but as the environment has changed that’s now gone terrible, with even key media people failing to even acknowledge people who are there to support the team. Let,s hope that things change. Lovely to see Luke
Glad to say GCN has found its new-found indepence feet in double quick time. The content has been superb since the change and what a great team, all round, now set free to do what they do best and gettng better.
Ineos is like the reverse red bull, every team they acquire underperform. Sky, Mercedes, Man United, Land Rover BAR. Lol. While Red Bull seems to be elevating every sports endeavors theyre into.
@@Quintendejong123why did they miss out on Pog, Rog and Vingegaard... Sleeping on the job. They take sport teams backwards. The proof is in front of your eyes
Disagree. Too early to say anything about what the Ineos effect at Man Utd is. But they surprisingly exceeded all the expectations in the America's cup. When they took over Sky there were plenty of issues already evident, the A team - Frome / Thomas etc were getting a bit long in the tooth and their riding star Bearnal was destroyed in a crash - so no headline act, by this time Pogacar, Vingegaard etc were coming to the fore and signed to long term contracts elsewhere.
Really enjoyed the video! I always learn something new from GCN. On a side note, I loved that Dan was outside for his commentary segments. It was a nice change from the usual GCN studio. Thanks GCN for all the hard work and for continuously delivering great content!
“Don’t think he’s good at building for the long term…” he says after several years of unprecedented success… that’s the silliest thing someone could say about Brailsford
How does this review not include Froome's crash? (He had won the 3 previous GTs... and was the favourite for the TdF that year...) Froome would have also won 2 more GTs had the team backed their best talent vs Wiggo
Yes. Bernal’s crash has been a disaster for Ineos, but even if it hadn’t happened I don’t think he could do anything against Pog and Co. I do hope he can win races again, but I’m not sure if it’ll be another GT. Froome would have had 1-2 years more at the top.
Could argue that their biggest failing (along with everyone else) was not being the team that signed Pogacar - no amount of structure, clever mangement and marginal gains is going to cut it against the greatest talent since Merckx.
Excellent repo with good insights. One that I am missing is the tactics they use. Riding in front of the peloton with the whole team for no reason, since they dont have anyone that can beat the top GC-guys. And at the same time they are missing out the most important attacks that leave the peloton earlier in the race. Ineos also need to adapt tactically to the capabilities they have, then they can still win a decent amount of races.
I love INEOS and that will never change! But they need to get rid of riders that don’t perform and get riders who will. No matter who that is it must be done now. Forza INEOS 🇬🇧💪🥇🙏🚴♂️💨🥇 Welcome Artem 🤝👏💥
The rise of Roglič, and later Pogačar, Vingegaard, MvdP and now Remco has sent Sky/Ineos train tactics into obscurity. Thomas and Bernal were NEVER at the level of Pogi or Vinge, even if Bernal had not crashed. 7w/kg is the new 6w/kg and Ineos just doesn't have riders to perform at that level.
UAE and Visma are not using Skytrains? LOLWUT Their implementation of that tactic put the Skytrain of their heyday to shame, they have much deeper talent for doms than Sky ever did. Doesn't really matter anyways as long as Dopacar is still on whatever mutant level dope he's using (unless others get onboard with whatever UAE is doing).
@@nigelstead8424 UAE's dominance is less than Sky. Sky was blocking the race from km 0 to the final climb, UAE is more creative and out of the box (maybe because of Pogi)
No my dude. They’re just employing basic tactics that Sky employed. Control the peloton, decide if you want to let the break go or not, but most importantly protect your leader and put pressure on your rivals. What do you think Yates, Mayjek, Almirante and Alonso were doing. In the Tour this year 3 out of the top 6 were UAE. There was nothing new in the Skytrain, it’s just that they were very dominant and disciplined in basic tactics. UAE are doing the same thing, ‘killing the opposition’ it’s just that Pog is far more deadly than anything Sky ever had to finish them off.
i reckon that if CF hadn't crashed a few years ago, he'd have still been with IG and I'd say with almost certainty that another 2 tours would have been won by him.
Any elite sport will always be cyclical (excuse the pun). Look at Man United now. This piece could equally be about Alex Ferguson as Brailsford. It is no surprise and no big deal. Ten years was a good showing at the top. Nothing to see here really.
Did the team send back to him what he has done for years? He's always been behind the other leaders I guess. Think it's not unfair he's asking for more consideration?
Thanks!
Wow, I'm gobsmacked. Thank you so much Jack. Dan
I've been viewing GCN for the better part of 8 years and want to make sure that GCN is around. Love the channel and what you guys do. Best of luck in being able to create great content for years to come. Also, really enjoyed your series on getting older and how to keep fit. Especially since I'm 54 now and it's so very relevant.
@@jackbackus2183omg that’s amazing!!!!
Dan is fantastic...talks well, knows his stuff 😊
This is without doubt GCN at its best. Dan’s skill in researching and developing in-depth topics coupled with his knowledge and expertise and his peerless presentation talent makes videos like this unmatched! Thank you guys. Keep’em coming!
Agreed and there's a real lack of proper sports journalism across most racing websites/magazines I find so good to see this. Plus the old 'Is alloy the new carbon?' etc etc & sub top gear banter stuff feels tired nowadays.
Well said!
Indeed! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🔥🔥🔥👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Yep, this and Connor's piece about cycling performance are two great pieces of journalism.
Totally agreed. This was a great watch.
Love this! Here's to hoping that independence as a channel will allow GCN to produce a lot more of these sorts of videos that have great insights and opinions rather than being forced to stay middle of the road
independence from whom?
@@fidru Warner Brothers Discovery who used to own GCN until a few months ago
@@kyleunwin9069 ok, good to know. thanks hanks for replying
It's pretty impressive what has happened in a short time. The content that GCN is putting out at the moment is top notch!
@@kyleunwin9069 WBO still have a minority stake in Play Sport Network
While I love the lighthearted GCN content, the more in-depth and 'grown-up' content that Dan often presents is always fantastic quality. More of this please x
Absolutely.
Cheers for the support, I'm sure we can manage some more content like this going forward
One name missing from this video is that of Nico Portal. His tragic and untimely loss in early 2020 was I think a more significant disruption to the equilibrium of the team’s DNA and culture than has ever been publicly acknowledged, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the graph started heading down after his death (though other factors in this video clearly played their part). Who knows if/how things would have been different had he been around as lead DS in the 2020s…?
I'd argue it's more that their momentum was totally halted in its pomp with Froome ending his domination with a wall and Bernal doing the same with a bus. All their GC leader development just stopped immediately. Same would happen to UAE, Jumbo or any team really. Will take 5-10 years to recover and that's what we're seeing now. They still won and podumed multiple GCs. Giro, Vuelta & Tour in the last 4 years since his death.
Yes the domination ended with froome and bernal but they have regressed further. Talent has left. Talent has not been brought on. Coaching and ds look a shambles with no structure. Cycling is a distant 4th behind man utd americas cup F1 Mercedes for ineos
@@Robert-e9m8rand now of them are doing well...
@@gourami7 Americas Cup are doing alright
Can’t believe he died of a heart attack at 40 years of age, so sad he seemed such nice guy too. 😢
Very nice to hear Luke Rowe speaking so eloquently and lucidly; he's come a long way. I'm sure he's going to be very successful in his next steps and has the potential to become a world class DS and team manager.
I think Luke Rowe has fundamentally nailed the issue, which is seen in a lot of companies outside cycling, layers of management stifles development and creates misalignment of strategy and execution and Luke would know this.😉
@@johnnewington6635 Completely agreed. It's something some of us see every day. It's as though some management consultants have taken Brailsford's Marginal Gains ethos and turned it into the usual corporate "MBO and KPI" BS! All creativity and risk has to be measured by controllers and the execution is cautious and misses the target. Anyway, Luke seems like a straight-talking operator that has just stepped off the bike, so he'll be a big asset to AG2R (shame O'Connor is leaving).
@@mhgregor, as a ‘management consultant’ I’d like to courteously disagree! I spend most of my life trying to get rid of pointless processes, unnecessary governance, vanity metrics and risk aversion. All of those things are typical of mature, large organisations. Which is what I fear Team Ineos has become. We need more of the scrappy start-up mentality to return. I can’t see that happening for the foreseeable however 😢
@@BarryDakar Based on the second half of your comment we agree, and you're not the average mgt consultant in that case.
This is outstanding journalism.
Simply, outstanding.
Dan, and GCN hit a Grand Slam on this upload.
Content like this is what will save GCN and put it at the forefront of cycling "magazines." I will willingly wade through four product-laden show episodes to get one of these in-depth, thoughtful, and timely editorial pieces. Thank you!
Thank you for the nice words
This was an excellent video Dan. I particularly appreciate the respect you showed to Sky/Ineos and the numerous people that have made that team what it is over the years. You weren't looking for tabloid-style gossip and snappy soundbites. You were trying to understand the nuances of the issues they have and actually, despite their lack of race wins, come out quite well in this video as a team that has loyally supported their riders through the tough times, Pidcock notwithstanding. Chapeau.
A very slick video. So glad you've gone independent again. Dan really knows his stuff and presented that in an extremely cohesive manner. More of the same please 👍🏻
What an amazing video. GCN really delivering of late. First Ollie's epic ride/challenge and now this. Keep up the great work.
I was working for Jaguar Land Rover when Team Sky received XF Estates as team cars.
Dave Brailsford gave a lecture on 'Marginal gains' applied to manufacturing industry in the Gaydon site's theatre.
I was assigned to pick him up from the visitor's car park.
Great guy.
I being a vehicle dynamicist and amateur race cyclist, we had a deep engineering conversation about drivetrains and aerodynamics.
I told him I was at the Motor Industry Research Association when Chris Boardman and Mike Burrows were testing the Lotus bike for the hour record.
Dave's eyes opened. Alas, I was confined by an 'Intelectual Property' agreement with MIRA. He slumped.
:-)
Whenever I got to meet Dave B I was always well received and I went away thinking "what a lovely guy"
One of the best videos you’ve done: well-sourced, informative, balanced, nuanced.
Your basic nightmare for other creators in the YT cycling space.
Well that was a departure from the usual content. Much as I love to watch Ollie and the crew batter themselves, a bit of proper journalism is always welcome. Great work Dan and team, thanks.
I really hope Ineos can turn it around. As a British fan I was used to praying for Robert Miller to take the polka dots or Boardman or David Millar to win the occasional stage. To suddenly have a team winning grand tours was amazing. Watching Cav win on the Champs-Élysées in the rainbow jersey and Brad win the GC in 2012 was just the best day a British cycling fan could have. So yeah, I wish them well ‘cos I want that feeling back!
Agree entirely on Luke Rowe's comments that it got too corporate with too many layers. This creates discord in a team. Also other teams just copy-pasted Sky/Ineos, then spent more and got better - Bora, UAE, Lidl. It was just a natural cycle of success. It can't last forever.
I think "the too many layers" is the more likely reason for this down trend at Ineos. Dan Bigham expressed similar feelings at the beginning of the year (I don't recall exactly whether this was on print or on a video) that his input was just not being implemented and got frustrated by that. So it came as no surprise when he announced that he was leaving the team.
Excellent report, Dan, and we here in the States can relate to having a top team on the circuit. We had 7-Eleven to Motorola to Postal to Discovery, something like that and it was great fun to see a home team mix it up with those mighty Euro riders, tho' it was unfortunate that they eventually lowered themselves to athletic cheats in cleats. I hope Ineos can right the ship with its Mods and Rockers riding their bikes like motorcycles and scooters and Dan's cool Raleigh moped, the one with the chrome high-rise handlebars like a Schwinn Sting-Ray. :)
Ineos aren’t particularly bad it’s just the other teams have upped their games so much more and are getting results. Luke Rowes comments are spot on - gotta keep aiming for improvement and not become complacent. And Pidcock needs mud not asphalt. And maybe an attitude change. Cracking vid GCN 👌
Yes, (Jumbo) Visma first and UAE then (even their 15th ranked member is able to win races against great leaders) have grown so much... No way to win.
A sponsor rather than ownership might help. I get the impression they are just part of a bigger machine and the sexy money and tech is now at the Americas Cup so the team is just spinning wheels without much incentive and the other teams have caught up. I don’t see a big change unless change is initiated; a development team and women’s team could make a difference and another headline sponsor to kick asses when the wins don’t come.
I don't think this is true. Sure, other teams have upped their budgets and this has meant they now ride like Team Sky used to in their prime, but even the so called lesser teams that don't have huge budgets or superstars I now see as having time past Ineos, and some with riders that were let go, i can only assume for budgetary reasons, like the aforementioned Eddie Dunbar. I think rider recruitment has been poor, I think the team management still gives the impression that they are a top GC chasing team when they're not, and I think those paying the bills have lost interest in the team and the sport and moved on to more lucrative ventures, in their eyes at least.
If some of the financial restrictions are down to honouring Bernal's contract when they could have reduced it, whilst honourable this doesn't make any business sense to me. Surely he wouldn't been on bad wages had they chosen not to do this, maybe not instantly after his horrific crash, that would been very harsh, but after seeing his form after a while back in the pro peleton, and this would have freed up money to keep a turned rider like Yates or Dunbar as a leader at Grand Tours or being in someone new. INEOS just seem to be relying on G Thomas now and he's just not able to ride GT after GT and he competitive against the younger riders.
INEOS are merely sticking to pre 2019/20 methods. Certain other teams, not so much.
@@markloughran4827 And this is the problem, INEOS don't have the riders that can perform like those they had in 2019/20. I think one thing also missed from this video was the horrific injury to Chris Froome. I think had he not had that crash he'd have been around being able to podium, maybe better for a few years after that at least, and maybe even perform on the level G has. Not having him and then Bernal meant there was a massive hole in the riders at the team that I don't think they've ever recovered from. I know you could say that they don't have the money but even keeping Adam Yates and making him team leader would have plugged the gap. As it is he went to UAE, as Sivakov also did. These guys should have been kept at all costs, then letting Dunbar and stone others go wouldn't have many such a big chasm that it looks like there is now. Obviously INEOS thought these guys weren't good enough, that they'd had enough chances to prove themselves at the team and didn't, and wouldn't do much elsewhere, that or it was just they didn't want to compete financially with the now top teams. Surely you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere?
Not your normal GCN video I must say , but still , absolute quality in its layout of the subject and really shows Dan’s understanding. I don’t know enough about the dynamics of what happens in the teams but hope they do come strong again ❤
Excellent video Dan. Delighted to see GCN devoting skills and efforts on long form conversations such as this. Very well done!
Dan, Thank you, for you wonderful reporting on a team that has brought us so much joy, excitement and talent to cycling since their inception. We can sometimes sit there, screaming at the telly, watching our team, the riders we follow and love, wishing them to win, the Wiggo's, Cav's and G'. The team, it's vitality so intrinsic to the the individual success. Of course we want Ineos to be back the room for the riders of the future...
First video in ages I watched from begining to end without pauseing or winding forward👌
Cannot believe you forgot about the late Nicolas Portal I feel losing him was a huge loss, even started the downfall.
That's a very good point. No doubt the team sorely misses him. Dan
@@gcn 100% From what I read he seemed like a real stand up guy
"Forgotten"
Good to see some journalistic pieces. Bravo GCN. The Bernal situation is not unlike Froome. Massive crash, recovery, no positive impact on their teams performance.
What an excellent piece of sport journalism. GCN killing it. ❤
Top GCN piece, big kudos for this. Fantastic and informative
Excellent independent piece, something very different than the usual promotional stuff is very welcomed!
Love this kind of content! It's great for anyone interested in cycling, regardless of skill level. And it helps the sport in general because those of us newer to it can understand more about how the competitive side of cycling works. Keep it up!
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They plan and race like a grand tour winning team without the grand tour winning riders. They ride as a pack with the other GC teams with very little breakaway participation as if they are protecting the jersey when their best placed rider is barely in the top 10. Riders with stage winning potential are forced to ride as full time domestiques. Even going back to their early days you can find examples like Bosen-Hagen who would probably have won much more had he been given his head in a different team. This may be OK if you are winning the GC but must cause frustration for strong riders if you have not got one of the "big 4" on your team
☝️This person gets it. Spot-on analysis.
Chapeau to Dan and the GCN team for producing such an excellent report. Well done and hope to enjoy similar productions in the future.
One of my favourite GCN videos to date. Strategy, politics, competition, drama, discontent, achievements, vision, business decision making, personalities, opinions, planning, conflicts of interest. It all creates a fascinating montage as well is bringing up nostalgic moments and moments that have changed the face of pro cycling, whether under support, skepticism, or disbelief. More of this sort of thing!
Dan is fast becoming (returning to) the latest GCN überpresenter. What an elegantly delivered piece for the channel!
The team in a business is what stands out for me. Fantastic piece, well done GCN!
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This is such a well done deep dive video. Bravo!
Wasn’t a video just tearing into them, just the facts and thoughts. Loved this!
This is the sort of quality I miss from GCN+ Brilliant as ever, Dan
No backing G 110% from 2018/2019 is where it went wrong. Also, Luke in this was straight fire.
Incredible feature, Dan. You did a terrific job of walking us through the history, the challenges, and the hope for the future. I appreciate the opportunity to give back for GCN's amazing content. Thanks!
Firstly it’s great to have proper grown up analysis from independent media ..and Dan Lloyds level of understanding and analysis is next level…Suggestions for Ineos? 1. Sponsor Trinity or Axon Bergman’s as a feeder team. This is very basic stuff but Trinity is already a super successful operation and Ineos could probably learn something about talent development from them…I’m happy to be contradicted but so far they haven’t even managed to develop Sheffield to stay on his bike consistently..and he’s not the only young rider who seems stuck at Ineos. 2. Sponsor a women’s team to create some synergy and excitement around the team and for the staff..Radcliffe is clearly something of a mysogenist - as was Brailsford but it seems to be a plus for UAE, Visma , Trek etc. 3. Improve talent ID…across the board. Sky revolutionised back room team recruitment but the only big name they’ve recruited recently - Dan B- has left because they weren’t hungry enough, searching enough or dynamic enough…and it staggering that they’re watching Luke Rowe go to Visma. 4. Whoever is in charge is an idiot. Withdrawing Pidcock from Lombardia has poisoned that relationship forever, will put off other riders who might have signed with them and makes the management look totally out of their depth. Pidcock is by far their most interesting rider and he has a big profile. Nobody is following Ineos to observe the machinations of an inept management. 5. I’m going to disagree for my final point. Running into the back of a stationary bus on a public road while doing an all out head down time trial effort isn’t unlucky - Luke Rowe breaking his leg on a stag do falling out of an inflatable raft was unlucky - Froome getting blown off course while blowing a snot rocket was unlucky if a bit careless- training like Bernal was is an accident waiting to happen. The equivalent of a pro Rally driver improving his skills on a local A road and hoping a combined harvester isn’t around the corner. This was their most valuable asset on a 5 year multi million contract…. Big Suggestion….conduct an independent review of everything, give staff anonymity when being interviewed..Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats. Cycling is my hobby. Pro cycling is a multi millions serious business at any level..at the level of Ineos too many livelihoods depend on its success for it to be run so sub-optimally on so many levels. PS DB made his bones in a sport desperate for innovation with a plan that he had developed over time and recruited incredibly well for his back room team…and then used a huge financial advantage to recruit Wiggins. Froome was a recruitment fluke, Thomas followed the Wiggins template which makes Bernal their most successful bit of recruitment ( but not development) and look what they did with him. DBs subsequent record suggests his golden moment was Froome/ Portal - Radcliffes suggests his skills are in climate destroying industries, faux Im backing Britain and highly leveraged fake ‘2 hour marathon ‘ projects..which TBF was entertaining.
Wow. Thank you. This is an interesting and really well thought out comment and it’s given me more to think about . Please, if you have the time, could you explain your last comment in a bit more depth?
Rowe is going to Decathlon AG2R, not Visma surely?
I like your video
M la rat
A robber has robbed you a brat
Good work Dan and the team. Good to see journalistic efforts being applied to situations in the sport.
I hope people from Ineos are watching as its very clear that those at the very top don't have a clue what their doing, and i'm sure could learn a lot from your insight Dan. This video along with Conors on the suspicious speeds of current riders have been two of the best GCN videos i've watched in a while,...keep it up guys and girls.
Another outstanding in-depth video from Dan Lloyd and GCN. Solid information without any bias. Chapeau !
Chris Froome was at the top of his game when he was injured. Unfortunately they dropped him like a hot potato. I know he never fully recovered but it was heartbreaking to watch how they dumped him. It was good they kept Bernal.
Froome had so much to offer in spite of never being able to regain racing form.
Agreed.
I felt bad for that coffee sitting there, completely ignored and slowling dispensing its core temperature.
Dan took sips during the parts when the interviewees were speaking-nothing to worry about; the GCN team’s hot coffee management borders on perfection.
@@gcn marginal grains 🤔🤣🤣🤣
I grew up with the Raleigh team that later turned into the Panasonic team. Everything has got a shelf life.
What an excellent piece of journalism! Hats off to Dan and his research team. Also fantastic delivery and production.
Thank you GCN... Thanks for being the channel that you were once was... Thanks Dan for such a beautiful story.
31 minutes of quality youtube content. Thank you Dan!
Excellent vid, but I think you should’ve mentioned the Richard Freeman/Bradley Wiggins TUE controversy as well as Froome’s salbutamol case. I don’t think it’s a huge coincidence that Brailsford didn’t have the hands on control of the team for much longer after those stories broke.
Completely agree. Can't really discuss the team without at least acknowledging this controversy
Whiter than white? I’m not so sure.
Whilst Bernals loss was bad…it’s hard to understand how a team can have all their eggs in one basket. And the blow up relationship with Pidcock is another example of poor management
There is certainly a mystery around Pidcock. What on earth has he done or said?
Just brilliant video. Captivating from start to finish. Saw G at the Tour in 2019. Saw Bernal at the 2020 Tour. He was incredible and yet he did not win the next two years until his crash. But this is racing. Unpredictable and the big changes often happen fast. Is Visma done for now? How long can Uae keep it up? Until Pogacar stops winning?
"Josh Tarling....can ride a bike." is exactly the sort of insightful analysis I come to GCN for
Wow... this is phenomenal content. I'd drifted away from GCN a couple of years ago when the sum total of insight seemed to be testing whether a great old bike was better or worse than a new sponsor's aero offer. This is so..sooooo good - great investigative work, Dan's undoubted knowlege and really nuanced in style! With more awesome content like this, there is little risk of a "Is this the end of GCN" video being made by Cade media! Thanks guys, keep up the good work!
Great work Dan, a thoughtful and insightful analysis.
Excellent in-depth video. More of these please! I wonder what impact on team morale has on a generational talent like Pogacar? He's almost unstoppable and no matter who you hire isn't going to win against him. What did teams do back in the Merckx days? It must have been frustrating to do your best as a team, a DS, an individual rider - and yet know you're racing against someone so good that your changes of winning are very low.
I love the dynamics of Dan presenting at a coffee shop or on a park bench! It makes it so much more informal than at the desk, and it feels like he's talking directly to me.
Being an Ineos fan is like being a Yankees fan as an American. As soon as G retires, I'll be shopping my attention around until Ineos earns my support again.
Well you aren't an INEOS fan then? You're a G fan.
Great post race report Lionel and fantastic viewing over the last weeks. Looking forward to the next few years of watching and seeing you in Nice and back in Kona 🤟🏼
Very insightful video and Dan at his best ... The Pidcock thing is a mystery though
Superb video!! I watch less and less GCN these days, but if you had more videos like this I'd definitely be watching more. Keep it up! Also, love that Dan is still there as the face of GCN. Quality guy.
Loved Team Sky, but I can not get behind Team Ineos. Jim Ratcliffe's brexit support just annoys the hell out of me.
One of the best GCN videos ever - keep this sort of stuff coming :) I think Dan is a natural with pieces like this - he's really engaging and open and you'd think he'd been a broadcaster all his life looking at this masterclass of presentation. Love it! And I agree with him, I hope that Ineos DO recover because the sport will be much more interesting when they do.
More quality pieces like this please. Excellent video Dan 👍👍👍👍
As someone said, this and Ollie's Epic ride..., maybe less output more quality long form articles
Super interesting video. I’ve been wondering why Ineos has been struggling and have had my own uneducated guesses. It sure is nice to have an educated analysis of this situation to provide more clarity.
No shoe interviews gives an added sense of ease.
yeh, but that extension cable over the armchair was making me tense
Brilliant video Dan which wasn’t all about the current Pidcock saga. As an ex world tour rider you know the mechanics of how things work, and delivered it in a unique and unbiased way. Best GCN video of the year!
Great in depth report. Chris Froome, arguably the greatest achiever was hardly mentioned?
Thanks for posting GCN . You are very right in aging the team makes a lot of difference in cycling 🚴♀️
Thanks Dan and crew . Did you finish the coffee ? I hope Ineos stays relevant and competitive for years to come . I know very little about the business/sport , but it seems more is better ? More teams , competition , etc ??
I finished the coffee! 😂 Dan
@@gcn Good on ya !
I kept waiting for him to drink some
@@stevedrake2031 he he yes sir
I don't.
Well done video. I'm still hoping that Bernal finds his old form again
Nothing lasts forever. There will be ups and downs.
Good stuffs GCN
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Great piece Dan. I think you nailed it with the comment about honoring Egan’s contract in full, which is something I don’t think the team gets enough credit for.
Great vid. Agree impact of Nico Portal - greatly missed.
Excellent documentary. Insightful fantastic journalism from Dan. More of this please 🙂
I think this happened to Team Ineos after they dropped Chris Froome after his crash, Froome said that he still had a lot left in him to win the tour but just like that Team Ineos just left him, that maybe the reason why some riders doesn’t want to sign or go to Team Ineos, and the rest is what they say is Karma.
Great video, fair and well balanced, well done Dan and GCN. Having worked for a large organisation, we would always say ‘too many chiefs and not enough workers and that seems to be the case with Ineos. They’ve lost what cycling is all about the fans, the racing and the passion. As a Sky/ ineos fan the connection with fans at the start was good but as the environment has changed that’s now gone terrible, with even key media people failing to even acknowledge people who are there to support the team. Let,s hope that things change. Lovely to see Luke
Thank you for your comment!
This is great Dan and GCN!! More of this please!!!!
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Glad to say GCN has found its new-found indepence feet in double quick time. The content has been superb since the change and what a great team, all round, now set free to do what they do best and gettng better.
Ineos is like the reverse red bull, every team they acquire underperform. Sky, Mercedes, Man United, Land Rover BAR. Lol. While Red Bull seems to be elevating every sports endeavors theyre into.
Won multiple grand tours as Ineos, Froome and Bernal incidents happened and Pog and Rog showed up.
@@Quintendejong123 certainly some poor luck involved but hard to credit too much Ineos with those wins given those were already at tour level
Ye, but redbull gives you wings. I don't think that would be very aero on a bike.
@@Quintendejong123why did they miss out on Pog, Rog and Vingegaard... Sleeping on the job. They take sport teams backwards. The proof is in front of your eyes
Disagree. Too early to say anything about what the Ineos effect at Man Utd is. But they surprisingly exceeded all the expectations in the America's cup. When they took over Sky there were plenty of issues already evident, the A team - Frome / Thomas etc were getting a bit long in the tooth and their riding star Bearnal was destroyed in a crash - so no headline act, by this time Pogacar, Vingegaard etc were coming to the fore and signed to long term contracts elsewhere.
This investigative journalism is amazing. Way more of this, please, GCN!!
Thanks for the compliment. We’ll try our best
Really enjoyed the video! I always learn something new from GCN. On a side note, I loved that Dan was outside for his commentary segments. It was a nice change from the usual GCN studio. Thanks GCN for all the hard work and for continuously delivering great content!
Thank you very much for your comment! I’m sure the entire GCN team appreciates this kind of feedback on the videos ❤️
“Don’t think he’s good at building for the long term…” he says after several years of unprecedented success… that’s the silliest thing someone could say about Brailsford
You’ve got a point.
Well structured, well delivered… Great work Dan!
How does this review not include Froome's crash?
(He had won the 3 previous GTs... and was the favourite for the TdF that year...)
Froome would have also won 2 more GTs had the team backed their best talent vs Wiggo
Yes. Bernal’s crash has been a disaster for Ineos, but even if it hadn’t happened I don’t think he could do anything against Pog and Co. I do hope he can win races again, but I’m not sure if it’ll be another GT. Froome would have had 1-2 years more at the top.
This was a very thoughtful and insightful look at changes in a once-dominant World Tour team. Well done, GCN!
Could argue that their biggest failing (along with everyone else) was not being the team that signed Pogacar - no amount of structure, clever mangement and marginal gains is going to cut it against the greatest talent since Merckx.
Excellent repo with good insights. One that I am missing is the tactics they use. Riding in front of the peloton with the whole team for no reason, since they dont have anyone that can beat the top GC-guys. And at the same time they are missing out the most important attacks that leave the peloton earlier in the race. Ineos also need to adapt tactically to the capabilities they have, then they can still win a decent amount of races.
The thing that worries me most is that your latte is getting cold.
Hahah I was thinking the same
Loving this longer form content - like the video on how performance has gotten so much better recently
I love INEOS and that will never change! But they need to get rid of riders that don’t perform and get riders who will. No matter who that is it must be done now. Forza INEOS 🇬🇧💪🥇🙏🚴♂️💨🥇 Welcome Artem 🤝👏💥
The rise of Roglič, and later Pogačar, Vingegaard, MvdP and now Remco has sent Sky/Ineos train tactics into obscurity. Thomas and Bernal were NEVER at the level of Pogi or Vinge, even if Bernal had not crashed. 7w/kg is the new 6w/kg and Ineos just doesn't have riders to perform at that level.
UAE and Visma are not using Skytrains? LOLWUT
Their implementation of that tactic put the Skytrain of their heyday to shame, they have much deeper talent for doms than Sky ever did.
Doesn't really matter anyways as long as Dopacar is still on whatever mutant level dope he's using (unless others get onboard with whatever UAE is doing).
UAE with Pogacar use exactly the same tactics as Sky did. What do you think they are doing differently in Grand Tours?
@@nigelstead8424 UAE's dominance is less than Sky. Sky was blocking the race from km 0 to the final climb, UAE is more creative and out of the box (maybe because of Pogi)
No my dude. They’re just employing basic tactics that Sky employed. Control the peloton, decide if you want to let the break go or not, but most importantly protect your leader and put pressure on your rivals. What do you think Yates, Mayjek, Almirante and Alonso were doing. In the Tour this year 3 out of the top 6 were UAE. There was nothing new in the Skytrain, it’s just that they were very dominant and disciplined in basic tactics. UAE are doing the same thing, ‘killing the opposition’ it’s just that Pog is far more deadly than anything Sky ever had to finish them off.
And Yates 6th and 3rd at TDF in past 2 years as a comitted domestique. Yet Ineos let him go by neglecting him at top races.
Some excellent insights there Dan, really interesting.
Good work, far better than the speculation on some of the big online websites.
i reckon that if CF hadn't crashed a few years ago, he'd have still been with IG and I'd say with almost certainty that another 2 tours would have been won by him.
Absolutely love the long form and analytical style videos from you guys. keep it up!
What are your thoughts? 💭 How could Ineos turn themselves around? 🤔 Let us know down below!
By bringing back the TUEs, perhaps?
Man Utd didn't help. Sir Jim's new toy is far bigger and shinier than the cycling team.
Great film, really interesting and some nice memories of the good times!
They are owned by a Monaco resident Brexit supporting tax dodger so not a British team. I couldn't care less what happens to them.
Great content
Really excellent video Dan. very thought provoking, some great views put across. I really hope that we do see them come back to the top again
Losing Dan Bigham is huge for aero performance at Ineos
One of the best GCN videos in a long time. Keep it up!
Any elite sport will always be cyclical (excuse the pun). Look at Man United now. This piece could equally be about Alex Ferguson as Brailsford. It is no surprise and no big deal. Ten years was a good showing at the top. Nothing to see here really.
I'd more or less given up on GCN but this was really worth watching. Good work
Pidcock is interested in Pidcock, not the team.
Did the team send back to him what he has done for years? He's always been behind the other leaders I guess. Think it's not unfair he's asking for more consideration?
The pro peloton has seen worse personalities.
Pidcock is interested in success. Unfortunately the current management don't seem to be, for some reason.
This was an excellent video. Very interesting and very well put together. I hope to see more videos like this