We Can't Innovate Anymore...(Modern Metal)
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- Опубліковано 2 січ 2025
- Where do we go from here?
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I'd say it peaked about a decade ago in 2014-2015. Archspire, Rings of Saturn, Black Tongue, Fleshgod Apocalypse, stuff like that. I believe those bands are as heavy as you can go and still discern it as music, and have memorable tunes. I know there's heavier bands, but they just sound like mush and static. I tried listening to Lorna Shore but I can't really get into it. It's like Rings of Saturn and Fleshgod Apocalypse put together. It's a bit excessive.
I think we are at peak music overall. Like we have expanded and mixed and re-evaluated all the genres. Like where do we go from here?
Microtonal music, and more pedals
Yeah we've been kinda entering into a post-genre musical landscape. Of course, we'll probably get some new genre names to describe some of the things we get 😂
THALL
That was my thought when i was 10 in 2010. There's always a room to improve and explore and it is almost infinite
Great topic - this is something I'm really passionate and curious about too.
Metal is so fragmented that it's hard to get a bigger picture overview of where the "entire genre" is heading. It's heading many many new places, albeit slowly and all at once.
People are taking pre-existing influences and combining them in new ways.
Just pick out two random different bands and envision a new band based on that -
Slipknot + Manowar. Crade of Filth + Ratt. Amon Amarth + Fear Factory.
Possibilities are endless and intriguing - one things for sure though, I don't think we are going to be truly shocked by new developments anymore, they're gonna be fun and interesting but a real "paradigm shift" in the world of music is very hard to imagine.
I will say one last thing though - musical developments always develop from a "micro" being extrapolated and developed into a "macro".
So there are musical "seeds" in one band that come to fruition in other bands.
Semi-Thrashy riffs in NWOBHM became Thrash. Tremolo/atonal riffs in Thrash became Death. So the seeds for the next phase are already here in sections of music that already exist. All it takes is for a new band to base their ENTIRE SOUND on the style that was envisioned in one section in a song that's already out there.
A bit like how Fear Factory were inspired by the mechanical machine gun riff in One - locking the double bass with the palm muted torrents.
All the seeds are already out there - just takes the will, creativity and vision to expand upon them and bring them all to fuller development.
That is the hard part lol, putting it all together
7:10 streaming services doesn't use limiters, they set volume. There's no compression that's put on top of your mix/master. Depending on platform they calculate tracks volume and adjust it to make every track "even" by their calculation. If your master is smashed into clipper or limiter, it is on average louder than their standard, so it will get turned down. More dynamic tracks are getting a benefit of louder peaks.
As Gear Gods said metal is not a Genre, it is a texture. There are unlimited possibilities what you can do with metal. Production, songwriting, recording process, etc. is not dependent on each other, you can ask the same question on music as a whole. Each day there's a new way to express metal or music and yet you can do something retro and it will be something new for new generation people.
I agree with the general premise, but when you say that your main source of listening to new metal is reaction channels and UA-cam shorts and subsequently conclude that most new metal is reaction/moment hunting it feels very converse accident
Band does something fresh
Everybody else copies
It eventually gets tired
Where do we go from here?
Repeat cycle
Well every year I keep thinking that it can only go downhill from there, and I keep on finding new gems and bands I know keep making banger after banger. I think Metal is just winning as a whole right now, everything is so fuckin good, but I don't know that much about Deathcore, Old School Death Metal and nothing about Metalcore. But Black Metal, Death/Doom, Metalodeath, Folk Metal andeven the heavy Prog stuff are just a gift that keeps on giving. So much greatness keeps coming year after year
Never was a huge deathcore person but JFAC and Whitechapel (specifically their recent 2 albums) have had them pretty much evolve past the basic sound and are some of my fav modern albums. As far as metalcore goes... Converge are amazing. Every Time I die also has some fantastic records
How do u find new bands?
@Rejdouvejn Mostly spotify recommending me small bands I've never heard of or by searching bands similar to what I like. Sometimes through youtubers and articles too but the stuff I listen to isn't that much popular so it almost never makes it to the big titles or "best of the year" stuff
@@Abyzdecannes Thanks for respoding
As far as more mainstream metal, It woud be pretty cool if they got away from chords progressions so similar to pop music.
I think if we’re creative enough, we can go somewhere. I have a few ideas, but I don’t know if I’m skilled enough to actually execute them properly. But if I ever get good enough , I’ll probably try.
But in general, we should always be trying to do something (regardless of whether or not it makes much sense). Some of the best innovations have come from seemingly stupid ideas.
What are your ideas?
@VARVIS_ I’m considering playing the guitars (including the bass guitar) in a non-conventional way. Maybe not for all of the songs I want to write, but with some of them. But it might take a few years for me to get good enough to write the music for my ideas.
My band plays in E Standard (riding on the A string alot) and our style is leaning more towards 80s metal. Our new singer has a good theatrical voice, somewhat of a cross between Johnny Rotten and King Diamond. Certainly taking our songs to a different direction, but in an exciting way
I think we need a band that doesn’t do the same stuff as a lot of the newer bands are doing, like with my band, me and my brother we want to like mix a lot of metal genres or play a lot of them but Ik that’s been done before so idk
Metal has been at peak heaviness for a long time, Bands like Devourement, Dragged Into Sunlight, The Berzerker, and Last Days of Humanity (I know technically not metal but still) came out in the late nineties-early 2000s (all those bands awesome by the way) That being said, more metal bands should try to just write good music than just try to be the "heaviest."
Though I can suggest to check out the underground, it is usually better than the mainstream stuff, especially the popular stuff right now.
Dragged Into Sunlight first album is absolutely crushing
@@sVieira151 It's so heavy and even better it's so good!
I think the beauty of music is that even though there is always the “its all downhill” fear every year, suddenly a few bands cook up something super fresh and changes the narrative. I’m not tryna say music never truly declines or anything and i certainly feel some things have gotten worse. Personally my main two complaints are i feel most metal productions are so compressed now which sucks out a lot of the energy imo. I also think the rawness seen in old slipknot and even the lyrical content of korn has slowly disappeared, which i think makes songs not hit as hard and dont invoke as much emotion.
The rawness of the old stuff is hard to beat.
Yeah, that was my impression when learning of Disembodied Tyrant.
2000-2012 peak Imo, back then it wasn't a race to being the heaviest but who can make the most interesting material with what little gear they had
Spiritbox and Sleep Token are the only modern bands that really stand out for me. I really like Annisokay, While She Sleeps or ERRA but these two bands have what helped me get into metal - diversity. Spiritbox can record ballads like mentioned by you Constance and then there is Cellar Door without any clean vocals. When I listen to their debut album, each song is unique. Sleep Token music is really weird and that's what I love about them. And can't skip this part, Courtney and Vessel are incredible singers that can sing in every genre from pop to extreme metal.
Funny thing is with older rock/metal bands that are really inspired by this new scene. Within Temptation have djenty riffs, breakdowns and 8 string guitars. Evanescence used Standard G on last album and had also some breakdowns. Even The Rasmus has some core elements lmao
totally agree on all counts man!
I loved the new Thy Catafalque album. No other band out there at the moment sound like them. Very disitnct melodic sense.
Edit: im very interested to see where metal goes in the mainstream now. Other sub-genres have had old and new bands continuing to release sub-genre conventional and unconventional songs and albums since their invention and that'll likely happen to any new sub-genre. Take Green Lung, for example - super cool modern 70s heavy psych/doom sound released last year.
VARVIS HYPE
I'd love more Metal than sounds like early 90's Megadeth. Maybe not Dave's vocal style but definitely the instrumental style.
Metal peaked May 6 2016 with Terminal Redux
I can see it
Dude I ask myself this all the time. The guitars cant get much lower and the drums cant get faster, but Ive noticed that other genre's are cyclical. So some of the older metal genre's may come back to the forefront. But it seems that metal is evolving by incorporating more and more elements of other types of music like pop choruses or R&B. I just miss guitar riffs in a tuning no lower than drop G, but maybe im alone in that, and actual guitar riffs that have feel instead of the same generic style that so many bands do now. I also am trying to figure out how current I can get on my channel as well.
I too also miss guitars not in bass range LOL
@@VARVIS_ I feel like a boomer too but man it just doesnt have a fun feel besides the biggest bands like a knocked loose or spiritbox
The reason the it's so hard to listen to Knocked Loose for more than a couple tracks is because it is brick-walled to hell and back. Running the album through a DR meter in Foobar, it comes out at 4, which is far from the worst I've seen from a deathcore band but is still far flatter than it should be.
Real heaviness comes from contrast, from the sudden shift down in either tuning or tempo. Listen to Slayer, for example, I feel that they are far heavier than 90% of modern metal bands and they were only tuning down to E flat
It should go microtonal. Only international acts I’ve seen doing it are KGLW. Be cool to hear it in black metal, deathcore/sludge, EDM/house, hip hop and industrial
Jute Gyte are microtonal black metal. Not my thing (not the microtonal, just the songwriting and vocals) but figured I'd recommend for you
History will repeat itself. We gotta go back in time. Don't worry about sounding "not heavy", or "not original". Or even, "vintage".
I rarely listen to newer metal for it's production and overdone aspects for reaction. Eventually, it will go back to how it sounded in the earlier days of metal - not bad at all. Mix eras too, Why not. Overall, we will revert to older years of metal.
Personally there are alot of experimental death metal like Ulcerate and Artifical Brain that is pushing the limits, I have my on gripes with the OSM revival kinda of copy pasting old styles. It feels kinda like naval gazing imo,
Yeah its a fine balancing act between being inspired by older bands and ripping them off
Maybe what metal needs is more Electric Callboy and less "how heavy can we get?". Also bring back some of the punk sensibility.
techical wise, i dont think much more can be done
Absolute Elsewhere blew me away, my goty by a mile and it is the best album in a very long time. Idk if it has something to do with this but i do love the more organic sounds. For example the new Wintersun album sounds terrible
100% agree Time II's mix is ass, but the music is amazing lol
dude remember that wintersun by wintersun was released in 2004 not that old.
@@adhamsalem9121 literally 20 years old 🤣That album is older to us now than master of puppets was to it in 2004
@VARVIS_ my perception of time regarding metal is distorted. since metal is around 55 years i consider 21st cetury albums "not that old".
Might I suggest getting Evelyn to react to some Acid Bath?
what you think of boundaries
pushing them LOL. Give me a song to check out
@VARVIS_ Id rather not say or Easily Erased is a newer one from this year
PEAK was 1998
Yeah I agree with that TSOP came out so its Peak lol
Just wright cool music. Its enough
Its so SIMPLE
@VARVIS_ 😆
There is way, way, waaayyy too much music coming out now, in all genres. The barriers to entry have all but disappeared, which “on paper” seems like a great thing, but in reality results in TONS of garbage that all sounds the same. Of course there are plenty of diamonds in the rough. One thing that bugs me about metal specifically is the rampant overproduction. Metal is supposed to sound raw and recordings are supposed to have character. Most albums sound so samey now 😞
That is a very good point as well
Asking when metal peaks is like asking when sex or eating peaks. Sure there were eras when sex had different trends and same with food trends. But at the end of the day just do what suits you.
I personally prefer Necrophagist, Archspire, old Veil of Maya, August Burns Red and all other genres including trap rap, bôa, and some country.
However, Cannibal Corpse to me is brutal death metal in its purest and most fun form. Death is the blueprint. Its up to artists to go beyond blue prints and express themselves as they see fit
P.S. I don't find "harsh" productions don't necessarily mean heavy to me. Its like the old harsh E standard Black metal vs A or B tuned 8 string technical death metal. And this isn't even talkibg about AI or brown notes.
Tl:dr = music doesn't "peak". Humans will express themselves.
Music is done in my opinion. With a growing lack of creativity from the average person mixed with the rise of AI. The future is sterile.
Metal peaked in the 90s/early 00s, nothing that popped up since then has been proper metal. I still like some newer stuff, but it's mostly regurgitating and riffing on existing content.
Where I'd like to see metal evolve is in two directions.
First, I'd like to see more interesting harmony. Both A7X and Fellowship did some interesting things with harmony on their last albums, and I'd like to see more of this. It gives songs a very different texture and I think it merges well with metal's love of dissonance.
Second, I'd like to see more complex arrangements and song structures. Let the bass be an actual instrument, let instruments play off each other, that sort of thing. Alustrium's A Monument to Silence (the song specifically but also the album as a whole) is a great example of this from a non-prog artist. The polyphonic guitar solo is amazing, and bringing back the chorus from Hollow Ache but a step up was an absolutely inspired choice.
Good points, bass might as well not even exist in most modern bands--which is a shame. I say bring back the Fretless Bass
Bro just asked for Spawn of Possession and First Fragment (aka technical death metal with modern counterpoint)
@@VARVIS_Beyond Creation is typing
@@technicaldeathmetalhead First Fragment is awesome, but I've never heard of Spawn of Possession; I'll have to check them out
As an metal "elitist" , all i am saying - stop calling everything that has guitars in it - metal.
Why do Americans... And Canadians put song title first and artist second. Is it because you usually say such song by such artist? While everywhere people write artist first and song title second....
We do it just to make everyone else mad
@VARVIS_ ah... Okay.... Guessed so...🥲
Idk what you’re talking about. I’m from AZ and I *always* put Piggy from Voivod first for my guitar work.
I don't think it's an American thing specifically. I'm from the US and I typically put the artist first, while others from elsewhere in the world put song first. It seems not to be tied to particular geography.
METAL IS DEAD
bro?
ua-cam.com/video/kEFoqm16QlU/v-deo.html
The solution is to get LESS heavy. In the mid 90s in europe when black metal was kinda dead in the water, death metal was kinda losing steam, a lot of bands decided to ditch the extreme metal tropes and got less metal and more rock. I think a lot of bands need to start doing that now
Thinking about it the new blood incantation and gatecreeper did something like that especially gatecreeper. That album is very mid 90s European metal.