What Broke the Fans? Specialist Games

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 14 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 100

  • @TheOuterCircle
    @TheOuterCircle  7 років тому +18

    Please leave suggestions for future What Broke the Fans videos. This video was one I swayed back and forth on over and over, what to include, what not to. In the end, I tried to give a rounded view of the better known games. Next video on the cutting board is comparing the various sculpts of several chaos characters.

  • @MellonVegan
    @MellonVegan 5 років тому +35

    Warhammer Fantasy broke before the fans did.
    :(

  • @PhasedPlasmaPainting
    @PhasedPlasmaPainting 7 років тому +55

    My most memorable specialist game moment was in Inquisitor - We got into a fight with Inquisitor Eisenhorn, and my buddy got an epic groin shot on him with his badass shoulder-mounted psycannon. We still laugh at that moment and he and I even got matching tattoos of the d100 roll that brought down Gregor Eisenhorn.

    • @Kaptainrdean
      @Kaptainrdean 6 років тому +5

      Hydra Three-Four NERDS!!!!!

    • @simonmallet5212
      @simonmallet5212 5 років тому +1

      Inquistor was a hectic rules fest but the models were awesome, still have a Brother Captain Artemis somewhere.

    • @JEKAZOL
      @JEKAZOL 4 роки тому

      Tattooed? Wow! Hardcore gaming.

    • @stephenbell9430
      @stephenbell9430 7 місяців тому

      Show a pic of the tattoo

  • @northumbriabushcraft1208
    @northumbriabushcraft1208 4 роки тому +3

    Years ago, when i was 14 or so i got a book called 'the general's compendium' because i wanted the rules for kislev & dogs of war. In the book it also had all the rules for man o' war, but using 28mm models (in fact i always thought it was 28mm until this video, haha, only ever read the rules in this book, never even seen the og set before, my small tussle w/manowar was over 10 years ago) I told 2 of my friends who gamed at the local GW with me, and we scratch built some small fleets using foam blocks coated in coffee stirrers for the decks & hull, the mast was a dowel and we bought scraps of cloth from a clothes alteration shop for the sails, which we coated with wax designed for waxed hunters jackets, painted them up (they looked awesome, was really impressed with my scratch building) then bought warhammer fantasy models (mostly empire militia) to use as our crew. We were totally all into it. (my friend loved pirates was a conversion king and did some awesome conversions, making undead skeleton pirates)
    We played one game, then when we were setting up for our second the staff at the games workshop said we couldn't play it in store, they said we couldn't use non-GW models, when we told them the ships were scratch built the staff member was impressed with our work, but said we couldn't play it and wouldn't give us a proper reason. We were using GW rules, buying our models from them and scratch building our ships (our gw allowed scratch building) and we were pissed that we couldn't play.
    We did play it from time to time at my friends house, but we never got the mighty fleets we dreamed of becuase we did most of our gaming in the GW and not at my pals house, which we only went to once every few months. They were usually good with their rules (the second closest one to me said no forge world, no specialist games, no non-gw parts on your gw models, no scratch built models, no painting or sticking stuff together in store, you had to book tables in advance, you couldn't just turn up, see who was there you knew and asked them if you wanted a game, the store i went to allowed specialist games, painting, forge world, non gw parts as long as the model was a gw one, they didn't care if his sword or belt pouches were non gw and generally had rules that made sense, no fighting/arguing, swearing around kids, no non-gw models or games i.e. stuff that made sense so idk why they didn't let us play manowar) The manager (not at the store i went to, but the one second closest to me) was a asshole, and soon all his veteran gamers emigrated to the store i went to and we had a awesome community, the store with the ass manager had entirely kids around 10 years old in his store, as i guess they had never been anywhere else so thought the rules were normal.

  • @glenmcinnes4824
    @glenmcinnes4824 6 років тому +13

    Heck only thing that kept Orc vehicles on the shelves at the GW stores I went to where Gorkamorka fans starting new warbands, Fantasy Empire Militia boxed sets where only being picked up by Mordhime players. Staff & managers would ask when people where going to finish and bring in their X Army (as they would drag down overpriced boxes or blisters for said army) only to look down their nose when the player would say "No this is for Y or Z Specialist game".

    • @Heidelmann
      @Heidelmann 3 роки тому +1

      Oh but they sure were super excited being forced to sell Inquisitor.

  • @dzelman444
    @dzelman444 7 років тому +9

    I think what made Epic and BFG work so well later on was how they abstracted what would be a million weapons with different profiles and special rules into a universal profile type with a handful of special rules without losing all the flavors. If you had a firepower weapon you just had a firepower rating and a range and maybe a special rule. It made the game so much easier to play, while giving you interesting decisions to make as a player.

  • @craigjones7343
    @craigjones7343 6 років тому +11

    The release order for the ‘Epic’ game series was:
    1e
    Adeptus Titanicus
    Space Marine - added troops and vehicles into AT. AT was not designed for this and it was not fantastic
    2e - IMHO it is the best edition
    Epic: Space Marine
    Epic: Titan Legions - added Imperator and Mega Gargant and new Titan rules
    3e
    Epic: 40000
    4e
    Epic: Armageddon
    Mordheim was the WHFB version of Necromunda.

  • @ProjectRevoltNow
    @ProjectRevoltNow 7 років тому +10

    13:25 I love inquisitor!!! I used to play with 8+ people at GW with 40k scale models.(1 inch = 2 yards instead of 1)
    Imho Inquisitor is one of the best games ever made by GW if not the best period. I've printed the Inquisitor rulebook and vehicle rules/chaos rules etc from archived fanatic online articles. My best moment in inquisitor is probably the time my inquisitor threw a fireball about 60 yards (5% chance to hit on d100) I hit. Rolled hit location... HEAD SHOT (5% to hit again) I rolled critical damage, the enemy inquisitor fell off a rock from being knocked out and the fall ended his life lmao. Inquisitor is full of near endless posibilities!

  • @benn1181
    @benn1181 7 років тому +22

    Please do "What Broke the Fans: Spot the Spacemarine"

  • @rokassan
    @rokassan 7 років тому +3

    The Epic 40k was fantastic. 2nd edition. My first miniature game. 1993. I loved the unit cards. I had Orks. Still got stuff.

  • @HellbenntTube
    @HellbenntTube 7 років тому +1

    From memory, warmaster was a bit of a test bed for a system called, I think Warhammer Historical Battles or something similar, using romans and Greeks and whoever else was around. I think it might have been a Jarvis Johnson or one of the other OGs passion project.
    I'll also mention there is a Man-O-War game on pc....
    It's preeettyyyy rough though.
    Great episode Macca!!!!
    Seasoned with just a perfect pinch of salt!

  • @Octanetwisted1983
    @Octanetwisted1983 6 років тому +11

    TItan Legions came after Space Marine. Space marine was my first GW game, I loved epic far more than 40k. EPIC 40k was one of the best game systems GW ever came up with and it was gone within a year because GW didnt know how to market it to people who wanted more complex games. Such a shame it failed.

  • @squigin3380
    @squigin3380 5 років тому +4

    A GW where the main played game is Mordheim sounds like heaven.

  • @Hopekuma
    @Hopekuma 3 роки тому +1

    Man O' War was my first GW game, I played Dwarves who were so OP broken, because while every other fleet relied on the wind direction, Dwarves were steam powered. I still have the Box, and rules but lost all my minis during a move.

  • @derpimusmaximus8815
    @derpimusmaximus8815 7 років тому +20

    Space Marine came out some years before Titan Legions.

    • @Senbei01
      @Senbei01 7 років тому +6

      Adeptus Titanicus > Epic: Space marine (1st ed) > Epic: Space Marine (2nd ed) > Titan Legions > epic: 40,000 > Epic: Armageddon
      Epic: Space Marine (1st) Was really just the rules for tanks and infantry in the Titan Legions rules-set.

    • @HellbenntTube
      @HellbenntTube 7 років тому

      Yeah, spacemarine came out and Titan legions was an expanded rule set.
      TL had a one imperator, one card imperator and two gargants, plus some knights and ork scorchers

    • @TheOuterCircle
      @TheOuterCircle  7 років тому +2

      I went straight into Titan Legions as it made sense to go Titanicus > Titans > Epic Space Marine > Epic 40,000 rather than mixing the systems too much together... video editing choice. But you're bang on correct.

    • @catnium
      @catnium 6 років тому +1

      obviously it dint make sense.

    • @adamcondon5120
      @adamcondon5120 6 років тому

      Space marine was what got me into the 41st millennium

  • @northumbriabushcraft1208
    @northumbriabushcraft1208 4 роки тому +5

    Just thinking about the death of Warhammer Fantasy, it was technically just called Warhammer, so now the 'Warhammer Store' doesn't actually sell any 'Warhammer' which is ironic. It couldn't be called the Warhammer 40,000 store as that sounds dumb, but not nearly as dumb as the end times & age of the sigmarines. Hell i think people may of accepted sigmarines if they swept in at the end of the end times and stopped the world from being taken over by chaos. But just like primaris would of been accepted by everyone if the fluff was changed slightly, GW fucked up again, and actually killed their first ever product, the actually killed Warhammer!

  • @xSuperiorManx
    @xSuperiorManx 6 років тому +6

    20:11 "There were also numerous expansions released that brought in other factions."
    Numerous, as in "one"? "Battlefleet Gothic: Armada", I don't remember any others.

  • @JKRavenBlood
    @JKRavenBlood 3 роки тому

    In my gamingclub we always played Inquisitor in 28mm, no need to wait for models or terrain for that matter. And because of that i still kept my book.

  • @dopeskone
    @dopeskone 7 років тому +6

    I played a lot of battle tech but had never heard of Titanicus. If I can get others interested ill play it.

  • @DustyTheKitty
    @DustyTheKitty 6 років тому +1

    Rule of thumb for me with GW's specialist games: If the models can't be used in the main games, don't even fucking bother, GW will drop support for it like a sack of shit a couple years down the line.
    Learned my lesson after GorkaMorka and Warmaster.

  • @FRANKMUSIKOFFICIAL
    @FRANKMUSIKOFFICIAL 6 років тому +1

    I bought Titan Legions when I was a kid. I sorely regret ruining everything as I had no idea what I was doing : /

  • @LordProteus
    @LordProteus 5 років тому +3

    Space Marine came out way before Titan Legions.

  • @nickbailey9552
    @nickbailey9552 7 років тому +1

    I still have my old necron fleet, it was fucking disgusting how fast/tough they could be

  • @ScryeTheMindless
    @ScryeTheMindless 3 роки тому

    The Hive war expansion for epic40000 added alot of interesting things, but my fav specialist games were Battlefleet Gothic and the unmentioned GorkaMorka!

  • @T3CH33
    @T3CH33 6 років тому +5

    Technically speaking Titan legions was 3rd ed epic. The orders wrong in the video. It was Adeptus Titanicus, Space Marine, Space Marine 2nd ed (both games combined with a rework of the rules and army cards), Titan legions (rules tweaks and introduced imperator and mega gargant rules that were vastly over complicated), and finally amageddon that fell flat on its face due to the rules set being far too different and changing infantry bases to strips invalidating EVERY infantry stand in the game.

  • @Senbei01
    @Senbei01 7 років тому +3

    For all some people argue that "Epic: 40,000" was one of the better rule-sets, I've not once - EVER - seen anyone try to play it in a store or at a club... even when it was brand new. I used to see 2nd ed Epic played in stores quite often when it was a thing, it had much more of a stock-presence in stores and, I assume, must have made GW a lot more money as they treated it as a third 'Core' game system.

  • @orionparish9858
    @orionparish9858 5 років тому +1

    Inquisitor is what got me into 40k actually way back now. Unfortunately, by the time I found it, GW had long since killed it off.
    I can't even really say why it hooked me. It just did, and that was from a White Dwarf article from when the game still existed.

  • @TheSmart-CasualGamer
    @TheSmart-CasualGamer 5 років тому +2

    The fact they cut them all.
    But now they're back.
    Problem solved?

  • @simonmallet5212
    @simonmallet5212 5 років тому

    Just a quick one becasue.. Space Marine.. Came out after Adeptus Titanicus, after GW published rules for vehicles and infantry for AT. They published those in WD 116/117 a looong time ago, when they gave stuff away for the price of a WD. Legions was the re-wrtie to put titans back into the epic scale game because the big titan hunting tanks like the shadow sword were cheaper as a unit and could kill a titan quicker than it could kill a squadron of them.

  • @joshuajupp9037
    @joshuajupp9037 7 років тому +4

    Noooooo, what no recognition of Necromania. Lol. I'm only upset because for myself it’s my favourite.
    On another note, I always saw specialist games as a gate-way drug :-/ They weren’t out or supported for long but because of the small by-in it doesn't take much to keep the addicted nerds from starting their plastic/metal crack obsession into fantasy battles or full on 40k.
    Shame innit.
    I saw LOTR as replacing Specialist games. But I believe they only shelled for the franchise to stop other companies using it. Shame as SG I think was GW’s best section, quirky, fun and helped with expanding their universe.

    • @TheOuterCircle
      @TheOuterCircle  7 років тому

      Necromunda has literally 2 videos dedicated to it, one talking about the re-release and another all about Shadow Wars Armageddon.

  • @DisgruntledDepressed
    @DisgruntledDepressed 4 роки тому

    I love how there is a bar somewhere that has a box of man of war and this is a known thing😂💪🇨🇦

  • @mikepence1933
    @mikepence1933 5 років тому +2

    speaking of GW vidya that nailed the feel of the tabletop, the 2014 Mordheim game was pretty spot-on, being an almost 1-for-1 port
    obviously there were concessions made to the medium (like the shitty selection of warbands, with several being locked behind paywalls), and it runs like ass, but the singleplayer is solid and the multiplayer is disgustingly oldschool in its brutality

  • @sargonixofur1234
    @sargonixofur1234 3 роки тому

    Epic was epic. I liked it, and it really let the whole system show off. The Squats were cool in Epic.
    I liked the whole massive conflict idea, and you could use your 'big' models for spin offs. Lots of opportunity for a narrative campaign.

  • @northumbriabushcraft1208
    @northumbriabushcraft1208 4 роки тому

    Remember 'Warhammer - Historical' ? I only ever saw it at UK games day. Don't know much about it but that was definitly one GW wants you to forget.

    • @brendanrobertson5966
      @brendanrobertson5966 4 роки тому +1

      I got the first book. GW's problem with it was they didn't sell any figures to go with it. Most players who bought it already had armies, or like me, found a good scale (I built a 15mm Roman force).

    • @northumbriabushcraft1208
      @northumbriabushcraft1208 4 роки тому

      @@brendanrobertson5966 Yeah i didn't remember them selling any models, i reckon it would of done well.

  • @SgtDeath1942
    @SgtDeath1942 7 років тому

    I think you have covered most of the GW games now with this series. I wouldn't mind a slight bit of reflection on past editions. Something like "What broke the fans, chaos 6th edition", outlining how an army went from viable and fun into garbage based on new codex/other factions/edition changes to rules.

  • @andymansgamingchannel3356
    @andymansgamingchannel3356 3 роки тому

    Warmaster died because of its terrible release schedule. I worked at a flgs during this time. It was anxiously anticipated, but players didn't want to wait 9 months to get their army..

  • @dalorasinum386
    @dalorasinum386 6 років тому

    The Titan game at the start sounds a lot like the Knight game that came out a year or so ago when the renegade knights came out.

  • @awakeandwatching953
    @awakeandwatching953 7 років тому +1

    best hope for many of these titles are video games, im hoping on epic scale game, battle fleet gothic was pretty good and theres a crazy looking man o war game

  • @mordenthex8554
    @mordenthex8554 3 роки тому

    Space marine was before Titan legions. We DID have computers in the late 80's early 90's and printers. Just not modern printers. I printed my lists off in the great WORD. LMAO.

  • @robertb7293
    @robertb7293 3 роки тому

    Be me; Rising from the dust of ages. Absolute setting nerd writing my own space marine chapter, freeboota clan, ganger culture, hive janissary regiments, admech archivist explorators, Battlefleet Istagea ship roster, subversive chaos cults, a network of knight agri-worlds and writefuckery detailing tens of thousands of years of local history. Simply because the setting and game range allowed it.
    GW; Ok. Now what if we discontinued all those, and gave you ultra-ultra marines instead? How much money would you spend then?
    None.

  •  5 років тому

    Pretty sure Epic 2nd Ed came before Titan Legions? And that Epic 2nd Ed - Space marine came well before 40k 2nd Ed. I remember because my older brother bought it, I got to play with the Eldar inside, facing all his SMs and the Titan.. ;)
    A few years later I got into 40k when 2nd Ed. was released..
    Epic 40k is great..

  • @XavierArnau399
    @XavierArnau399 7 років тому

    Great video!

  • @UnfocusedHobbie
    @UnfocusedHobbie 7 років тому

    shiittt you're from vic, where u at now man?? FYI in Melton there is a awesome gaming store, good community and owner

  • @newhope33
    @newhope33 3 роки тому +1

    Love Epic space marine it was what brought me into the hobby, thought epic 40k was shit though...

  • @LilacMage
    @LilacMage 6 років тому

    What about a what saved the fans video? If the upcoming Ork Codex from GW is good?

  • @MarneusAndMilkyBlood
    @MarneusAndMilkyBlood 6 років тому

    One of the most ironic ting about GW axing specilist game but still leasing the IP to game devs is that I found myself walking in a GW store after giving up on the hobby 8 years prior because of the Battleflett Gothic PC game. I'm back playing 40k, but I'm only doing it until they work on that new Battlefleet game!

  • @Wendelvendel
    @Wendelvendel 3 роки тому

    er what about gorka morka, necromunda and blood bowl?

  • @rossdiggle
    @rossdiggle 6 років тому +1

    What about warhammer quest and heroquest

  • @charlesballiet7074
    @charlesballiet7074 7 років тому

    I miss Inquisitor so much was a great game and was easily adapted to pen and paper like D&D

  • @Heidelmann
    @Heidelmann 3 роки тому

    Lotr is a specialist game.

  • @dapperchap572
    @dapperchap572 4 роки тому

    Space Marine came before Titan legions. Legions was the last release before they revamped Epic to Epic 40k remove the data cards and streamlining it.

  • @BTR180
    @BTR180 6 років тому

    Huh, guess you were right about titanicus

    • @TheOuterCircle
      @TheOuterCircle  6 років тому

      I hear more and know more than you'd think... sometimes... lol

  • @skryreprototype1826
    @skryreprototype1826 7 років тому

    Oh, those are some nice games we've got there. It'd be a shame if we licensed LOTR, wouldn't it? ;^)

  • @margaretwood152
    @margaretwood152 10 місяців тому +1

  • @darcyosuilleabhain2472
    @darcyosuilleabhain2472 7 років тому

    Does anyone know how expensive the ships were in battlefleet gothic? If GW re-released it, I'd be interested in buying a fleet, but not if a battleship costs $40 or something.

    • @skryreprototype1826
      @skryreprototype1826 7 років тому +1

      They were reasonably priced, but I'm pretty sure if GW relaunched it, they'd make the ships massive and well sculpted, just so they could demand $40 per escort squadron.

    • @colinpenfold9890
      @colinpenfold9890 7 років тому

      In OZ i remember a battleship was 55$ escorts were 33$ per pack that was last set of prices

    • @darcyosuilleabhain2472
      @darcyosuilleabhain2472 7 років тому

      Well there goes that plan...

    • @EejitInEspana
      @EejitInEspana 7 років тому

      I suspect the new deal with wizz kids will be to release battle fleet Gothic but using the star trek system. Similar to star wars x wing.

  • @giglepiezon0323
    @giglepiezon0323 7 років тому +1

    To bod I miss out on some good shit son because today I can't have any of this shit.

  • @SockPupet
    @SockPupet 7 років тому

    Man of war box and expansions worth anything?

    • @TheOuterCircle
      @TheOuterCircle  7 років тому

      To the right buyer it is!

    • @brendanrobertson5966
      @brendanrobertson5966 4 роки тому

      complete sets are quite valuable on the secondary market. I paid almost full price for my second hand set in the early 2000s.

  • @henrythe9th377
    @henrythe9th377 7 років тому

    I so want to play moreheim

  • @epyon3650
    @epyon3650 6 років тому

    you forgot one space crusrde box

  • @VictorQues
    @VictorQues 7 років тому

    A lot of games had been discontinued over the years not just GW, but I guess you can keep playing them if you want. Company creating Battletech went in bankrupt. Same the case of Warzone. This is showing that is not easy to survive in the wargaming market and sometimes companies have to do tough choices that most likely people will not understand because we do not have the information. Companies do not do changes to upset the fans they do changes because they need to be financially viable.
    The strategy for specialist games today had change a lot on GW. And the last numbers are showing that they are back on track so from company point of view they are not doing bad what also is meaning more people are buying their products.
    GW also explain that they had to stop supporting specialist games in the past because they were driving them in a bad finance position.

    • @TheOuterCircle
      @TheOuterCircle  7 років тому +1

      I think the 'financial strain' was thanks to their decisions at the time. Speciaist games may have not made them money, but it was also something that they didn't have to sped much on. The molds were there, the rules were in online PDF's, they didn't have any focus on them in their stores, so really it was free money.

    • @VictorQues
      @VictorQues 7 років тому

      The molds need maintenance and on top in that period most of the miniatures were in metal. But molds are not the only part you need you also need the press to inject plastic or to cast the metal miniatures. If you have a lot of complexity your efficiency goes down dramatically because you need to do more change overs.
      Balance between complexity and market options is always complicated.

    • @TheOuterCircle
      @TheOuterCircle  7 років тому

      I get that, but I mean, looking at the big picture it required far less support than what was happening with the other game systems, and obviously less than the reboots of the games going on now.

    • @danieldare9245
      @danieldare9245 6 років тому +1

      Companies will also cut their nose off to spite their face in an attempt to squeeze out extra profit. I wouldn't be surprised if a bean counter just went 'oh these games make more money? Why are we giving people the option to even play cheaper ones?' and that was the end of it.

    • @brendanrobertson5966
      @brendanrobertson5966 4 роки тому

      FASA didn't go bankrupt (that was TSR). The FASA owners just retired and changed it to a holding company that licenses out the BattleTech ip.

  • @archbishopmactasty76
    @archbishopmactasty76 7 років тому

    Hey man i am really trying to get into war gaming but have no idea how to. It would be cool if you could do like an overview of it.

  • @mathewkelly9968
    @mathewkelly9968 5 років тому

    Wrong fantasy did have rulesets for Cathay , Araby etc etc , and they where all in one book

  • @LordProteus
    @LordProteus 5 років тому

    Gorkamorka?
    Any other Mork supporters here?

  • @Zretgul_timerunner
    @Zretgul_timerunner 5 років тому

    Oh epic the Game that died to early XC

  • @petercornwell5880
    @petercornwell5880 6 років тому

    This guy is insane if he thinks Epic 3rd edition was “way better” than 2nd edition! Haha! 2nd edition was a core game on shelves in all the stores, then when third edition bombed it did so much damage to the hobby that even Epic Armageddon couldn’t rescue Epic even though the rules were pretty good!
    Checkout www.netepic.org/netepic.html

  • @luketfer
    @luketfer 7 років тому

    With regards to Man O'War there was that other game that came out that was sort of a remake of it...jesus christ what was it called...
    Dreadfleet! That was it! That had a stupidly short run and rumours are they destroyed all unsold copies of the game.

    • @brendanrobertson5966
      @brendanrobertson5966 4 роки тому

      All the local players were quite excited, as it looked like a successor to Man'o'war. Then the first copy was obtained. It died right there and we cemented the corpse...

  • @Haroith
    @Haroith 2 роки тому

    Warmaster brings really epic-scale battles, that classic Warhammer fantasy has never achieved. WM starters are about 1/3 or 1/4 of full 2000-3000 pts armies. The most important thing is the rules-system. Warmaster is about commanders and maneuvering around. Classic Warhammer fantasy is about unit's perks and simple front-to-front combat - very boring thing, where models are just wound-markers.
    Epic was not completed rule-set. Fans have to make their own army-lists, their models, their home-rules and scenarios. it is very sad to do developer's work. Meh.

  • @erikbrown1827
    @erikbrown1827 7 років тому +1

    Ha ha ha,.. another Fantasy hater eh mate? To each their own.
    I play (and there are many more) Oldhammer. Heck, I want to buy a Nippon army book, one of many that was fan made.
    Other then that, I have a very nice Dwarf Throng that hails from Karaz-A-Karak. Granted, I still wish to grow my Army. The choices are shrinking with Citadel line, so I will, down the line have to buy from other Companies.
    I have no beef with the lot that play AoSigmarines. As I said before, to each their own.
    I have 2 other games I wish to get into. #1 Morhiem, #2 Gorkamorka! Why was Gokamorka not in this?