PART 1: BMW E60 M5 SMG to Manual Swap (Overview, Teardown, Parts, Wiring)
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- Опубліковано 7 тра 2020
- This is part 1 of an 3 part series devoted to 6-speed manual swapping a 2006 BMW E60 M5. In this segment, I discuss the project at a high level, talk about what parts will need to be acquired, discuss some wiring, show the teardown process, and more.
Resources Spreadsheet: tinyurl.com/4987za2h
M5Board Thread: www.m5board.com/threads/our-f...
Alex: Instagram: @s85socal
E39Source website: www.e39source.com
Help support E39Source by donating: www.e39source.com/donate - Авто та транспорт
I wholeheartedly support your decision to put out more e60 content in the future. Thank you!
Because one god-awful 5 series just wasn't enough for these idiots!!!!
God Bless you for attempting and Documenting this. The BMW Gods are Smiling Down on you!!!
Buy the E60 now before manual conversion becomes a regular thing and the prices start to shoot up
gods*
Lets be honest, the e39 one of the best cars ever made, but in the end we're all BMW fans.
Much prefer the E39 interior as well.
who wouldnt be pleas with the only v10 bmw being swapped from an smg to a manual idk know mechanics but just watching it is joy to my eyes thanks for the content love the licence plate
THANK GOD THERES A VIDEO ON A MANUAL SWAP......FINALLLLYYYYYYYYY
Great video, I Just had my smg pump rebuilt and considered doing a swap, what a timely and useful video. Nice job!
Wow Ryan, thanks for documenting this so well and putting together such a fascinating video. Another incredible contribution by you to support M5 owners worldwide which is hugely appreciated. I’m going to really enjoy watching this process. All the very best of luck with completing this mammoth undertaking! Given the thoroughness of your videos this will probably encourage a lot of people to take this on with your roadmap, so hopefully BMW start reproducing the necessary parts!
That is a big project to take on..I now own an E60 M5 and I'm all for the home maintenance jobs but this is just a whole new ball game. Look forward to seeing how it goes.. My hat comes off to you sir..
e60 or e39, I own both and will always tune in.
These videos are tremendously detailed and informative in planning my next manual swap.
Thanks Ryan, Great work!
A few years ago when I came across your E39Source Channel, I thought you were a big and honest car guy (or BMW car guy for that matter) and always try to watch your videos. As much as I love E39s, I am glad to see you have this project and thanks for sharing. Also, let me point out that you are one of the finest when it comes to explaining the tasks you are working on. Thanks for that as well.
Thank you very much for this comment! I appreciate your kind words and support :D
Judging by the number of views this video has compared to your other recent ones, I'd say there's a lot of interest in E60 content! Great video, and thank you for documenting this for all to view.
Ryan has to come up with an excuse for working on an E60 M5 haha. Come on man, E60 is a magnificent car, I would love to accommodate one along with my E39 M5. Hope the project goes well! Will be watching since I really love the deep technical videos. Good luck!
Great job Ryan! You will do a HUGE favor to that M5: it will finally get the transmission it deserves and with which it should have come from factory! Respect for tackling that kind of job! Eager to watch the coming vids!
Thank you for making this video on the swap. My only issue with acquiring an E60) M5 is the transmission and now I can consider buying one again. Look forward to all the videos.
Honestly I love it when you do videos on other BMWs since I'm a big BMW fan lol
Finally, someone makes full documentation!
Thank you for such an awesome informative video. I am on my third m5 ... e34 /e39 now owning the f10. The e39 is the greatest of them all . Looking forward for more videos. Keep up the awesome work. God Bless from South Africa.
Thanks for your support!
A very worthwhile project. That SMG is a turd. Do the swap, replace the rod bearings. That'll be a fantastic car.
Bearings are done i think like a year or so ago :)
Bearings done at 85k miles or so!
This Shop in North Hollywood ( Gintani) did a DCT swap into an e60 m5 and made the car much faster!
@@E39Source what about the vanos pump
@@mof3246 don't think it was ever 100% finished. They were very cryptic about the information they released about it. More recently a couple ecu companies have finally cracked the programming of the dct so we'll probably see a lot more swaps soon. Problem is, no one has figured out how to send the proper torque request commands from the dct to the s85 ecu via its canbus and tbh I'm not sure if they ever will because there's probably not enough interest out there.
Nice! Manual e60 M5, thats a Dream come true!
Great work, can’t wait for the next video!
Great video. Thanks for documenting this. I’ve subbed.
You are indeed a mad man.... Commenting as I am watching this and running back and forth to RealOem to find out who is what and what is where....
hey man!!! this is such a cool thing to do!!! i’m watching every video
great video man - keep up the good work
The best M sound ever comes from that car!
cant wait to see this whole story
Love it, keep em coming. Watching from South africa.
Watching from Cape Town over here bru. Tjerrr this guy is passionate ne?
@@bhuuthesecond This guys is poes serious 😂😂😂 I love it
Every M5 should be manual. Thank you for doing this
Wow this is going to be an epic project. Just stumbled over this. Subscribed. Interested to the coding process.
great series
I'd love E60 M5 content.
Good luck Ryan!!
As we don’t have a manual version in the uk I’m very interested in this
Oh man a manual e61 m5 wagon would be a dream.
Jack Burns There is a project about to start up in Long Beach, CA with both S85 and 6MT swap into an e61.
R3VO 3VOM I’m also in the Uk and tempted by dct swap mine using Htg gearbox controller www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/htg-gcu-gearbox-control-unit-14303.html. Not sure though never seen one done before,.
@@dannyboyle6110 I'm really interested in that one. S85 + DCT is a dream (I know it's been done already but there's still no solid info).
There is an M6 swapped to manual
Wow! Thanks a lot for this tutorial.
Can’t wait for it to be tuning
I had an 04 m3 with smg here in Arizona. Had to trade it in cause the smg wouldn't hold pressure in the hot temps. Worked fine when the weather was cool, but otherwise no bueno.
Imaging having to manual swap your M5. This post was brought to you buy E39 M5 gang.
Just for future reference. There’s a driveshaft shop here in SC that lengthens BMW shafts for $180. They do all of my E38 manual swap shafts.
Very very interested in this, just subscribed.
Thank you for this!!!!
Just finished watching this..... This is insane! I was about to embark on this task, but I am guessing that I would have to make my own harness now using OEM wires, OEM connectors and harness clamps.
BMW may make more if the demand is high enough... but you could make your own as well.
love this video, im going to go buy an e60 for this
E60Source... I would sub to that!
I did this swap on my m5 help from Alex in Long Beach we got it done in just a few days honestly not as bad as it seems the hard part is finding all the parts needed i was lucky to get all the parts from a guys project that his engine failed got the full kit with original e60 m5 transmission
How can I get ahold of Alex in Long Beach? I want to start my manual conversion. Thanks!
Nice project 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
At least you got the right transmission I saw someone try to do it with a E60
I love e60 content!
very nice and very interesting
SUBSCRIBED!!! Good luck
The two that are longer are NOT the starter bolts you mentioned. It’s the other 2. You can see that the boss on trans housing is thicker which is why those bolts are longer.
I dont think that will be easy, the smg is tied in heavily to the steering angle sensor and the accelerations sensors, it will take some very special coding and module deleting to make that work without having engine reduced power , maybe a flash from a manual car, but the whole car is pretty much geared toward the SMG
This will come in handy for my upcoming V-10 to X5 swap 🙁
Thank you!
My M5 is my only car that has flappy paddles, the others are Manual. I bet it would be wicked with the 6 speed.
Ohhh this is gonna be good
I have a 2008 e60 M5 with SMG with only 30k miles. I am taking care of it like a vintage Ferrari :-). I live in San Diego as well. Not sure why but just love the car. What your doing is crazy and glorious! Thanks
What color is your M5? We'll keep an eye out for it!
@e_millimill Saphire Black
@e_millimill Yes, I don't drive it that much but your right.
@@E39Source Saphire Black with black leather interior... thanks
smg is good on Autobahn where you can drive with speed . i had one M5 with SMG driving it few weeks in city traffic and it's a pain. Basically the car begs you to floor it.
Totally. Running in S85 traffic is like caging a tiger.
I wish to buy an e92 m3 soon, i will be swapping my smg as well, learning a lot from you, thanks😍🚗
in m3 is not smg
Per Bengalka, the E9x m3's are dual clutch gearboxes, not SMG
Mike Pretorius DCT
@@bengalkae605 i have driven e46 m3 a lot so i figure e92 had some similar smg, thanks for the reply :)
I remember that plate from somewhere :D I think I took some picture of that e39 and few others had a nice line up I believe most of them from OHIO, it was in cars and coffee down in Pittsburgh !
That's right! We all did the Pittsburgh Cars and Coffee back in 2017!
@@E39Source are you able to quote a swap for my m6 v10 into manual currently smg
@@christianpadilla2928 Absolutely! Please email me at ryan@e39source.com
hey guys i have 2 of em in los angeles, both of em 2008 editions, one is manufacture manual second is smg, both i bought from auction salvaged, not a big deal, from smg im going to transfer frond end to my manual one, the rest of it will be parting out, i"m a fan of e60 m5, i dont care what people say about em, just love em n i"ll keep my self as a enthusiast of BMW.
More power to you! Enjoy it, and good luck with the project!
Change your username to M5Source :) I’m a new sub just here for the e60
Same, I love e60
The number I've always heard is approximately 1300 manuals; for some reason, the M6 had far fewer manuals produced.
Been watching your videos really straight forward, you this should work on e63 m6
Nearly the same process on the M6. We'll be doing our first M6 in a few weeks!
I never understood why they didn't sell the manual option in Europe...
moinmoin they never did ? I thought it was common
They did not because the car was never designed for it in the first place. It was supposed to be the first M5 to be some sort of automatic. Same story applies to the F10 M5 and the only reason that the E60 and F10 had manuals in NorthAm/Canada because of the demand but ironically few were made/sold.
I don't know why USA would have greater demand on manual cars than europe where manuals are much more popular
@@And4224 Like I said the car wasn't intended to have a manual unlike the E92 M3 which of course had a 6spd manual. BMW's thinking wqs wrong.
I don't have an official answer, but here is what I think.
I believe that it's because in the US a manual almost always mean sport since they are rare. So an American M5 customer would want the sportiest iteration, so they offered a manual option.
Here in Europe manuals are common, but high-end cars are almost exclusively automatics, and because the M5 is in my mind a true GT with 4 doors, it makes sense that an european customer would want an automatic. The wish for a manual e60 is mostly because the SMG 3 was so bad, the DKG in the F10 has made the manual option obsolete in my opinion.
I've seen the gearbox from an e60 550 manual for the m5...so this is interesting to watch
A manual swap is sick and I've never seen one done. I also have an 06 E60 M5. 11/05 production. I was hoping someone would release information on how to swap a DCT from e90/92 m3 into a E60 M5. That would be amazing as well.
I think the DCT swap has been done by someone
For the drive shaft, why not go to a machine shop and have them make an extension to be screwed to the transmission flange. It will essentially be just like the guibo, but made out of aluminum and 31mm in thickness. Probably cheaper than a custom drive shaft.
Boris P That sounds quite good actually.
Perhaps I will look into this...
Added parts is always an opportunity for failure. Balance issues, plus the lack of a centering sleeve, vibration... and it’s probably the same price.
Look into Drivelines Inc for the driveshaft. Was not even 600$ for my M62 E46 swap driveshaft.
So i wonder, is everything that is electrical needed? Like all sensors and such, what is needed for the car to run?
Getting wiring looms from BMW even just a few years after SOP is a pain the butt, first-hand experience...
Thank you for making this video. I have a m6 v10 is there any manual conversion kit?
All of the mechanical parts are the same. I'm about to start our first M6 conversion, and the problem is with the interior trim items like the EDC button trim and shift knob/boot. I have yet to come up with a solution here... but I will! I'll post a video on the channel at the end of the conversion.
Good idea,....look forward to learning a lot about this process! However, I have a 2010 E60 M5,...SMG of course and I by no means find that the SMG sucks! One only needs to understand the nuances thereof and "Flick" off the gears! Are there times I wish I had a Manual? Yes! However, if I did have a manual E60 M5,...I'd just be "Blipping" the throttle at every freak'n Stop Sign,...Traffic Light, etc. Which is wear and tear on the Timing Chain,...the Time Chain Guide Rails,...of course, the Throttle Actuators. However,...I applaud you for taking on such a time consuming endeavor. Good Luck!
Blipping the throttle! Haha! You and I know what a pain it is to get it back into gear after a little fun.
When I started watching this video I thought it was from 10 years ago due to all the parts not being known. You can take protools and code out smg in the vo and code in manual transmission type and it will do EVERYTHING for you. The drive shaft can just be taken from a e60 manual 535i because it has the same gs6-53bz as the 335i, m3 and 535i possibly others I don't know about. I am working on this swap so yes I can 100% confirm this world
This is a relatively new procedure, ultimately. Simply removing S276 and adding 2MA to the VO and then processing the car will 'work', though this is not optimal. The 535i driveshaft might fit, though it will certainly fail prematurely. The M5 received significantly stronger driveline components to handle the increased power output.
@@E39Source The coding has Ben well known for a while and it's exactly how the factory would have coded the car so I'm not sure what you mean by not optimal when there's no other better way. Yes i can see the 535 drive shaft being a bit weaker but that makes me wonder about the diesel drive shaft as well. Mostly for people that want to do a cheaper get going build
@@N54God666 The quick coding assumes defaults and generic coding. You can get a better, more customized final result with the manual programming, module by module.
Cost savings are nice, though my shop doesn't support this if it comes at any expense of end product reliability or quality.
@@E39Sourceyou can always look through the coding after but the heavy lifting will be done
A while a go i so a clip with a e46 M3 SMG that was converted to a manual using the same gearbox. that could be a less expensive way to get a manual e60. im not sure if that would work on the e60 SMG but its worth checking out. Very nice content anyway! thx!
That is possible with the SMG-II transmission found in the E46 M3, as it is just a 6-speed manual gearbox with hydraulics on it. The SMG-III found in the E60 M5 is a 7-speed made specifically to be a SMG. Converting it to a manual would give the shift pattern of 2, 4, 6, 7, 5, 3, R, 1 which would be very difficult to drive.
@@E39Source yes that was my concern as well... I knew It would be something about the 7 speed. Thx for explaining that! 👍
@@E39Source With that shift pattern no wonder it has to think about it
ok I realy don't know where to ask this, hope it aint realy off topic. so I have this E39 523i from 97 or so, and it worked pritty well till, yestarday when I started the engine up, it wouldn't kick in any gear. If the motor is off the stick seems to be working fine. I is a manual fifth gear gearbox... so any ideas ?
If the e60 M5 with the manual and more reliable, it would be as good as the e39 M5.
Surprised you missed the inner bellhousing bolts, don't you have the BMW TIS? It's also available online.
The photo I was going off of was very low resolution. I should follow TIS as well...
I enjoyed the install video. Question. I have a 2008 e60 auto xi. Will the 6 spd you used work for my car? Used Xi delete app and now its rear wheel. Let me know. Thanks
I even have a m5 rear, axles and d/s to use aswell on the tyranny swap project
Hmm, that's a good question! I have never been under an E60 xi.
hello , thx for the video . can we swap it in DCT? its more good and reliable too .
Thank you! I know people are working on the DCT swap, but I don't see any benefit of this over the SMG. Sure, it shifts more quickly, but you don't gain any control or enjoyment like you do with the manual. My understanding is tons of totally custom programming is required, and not all features work with the DCT. We only offer the true manual conversion.
Hey nice video I would like to know how much wit parts and labor and would consider doing the job
Please email me at ryan@e39source.com for an estimate!
I've got an '07 E60 M5 6MT. If you need any information on the pre-LCI 6MT, I'm happy to get information off of my vehicle.
Oh thank you!
Hi e39source.
Do any pins also have to be changed in the original e60/e63 transmission loom for the Manual? No, right?
This video details the changes to transmission harness that need to be performed.
So no trans oil cooler then?
Manual Swap? Subscribed! #S85
im confused , when you say dont remove the 12 o'clock bolt meaning dont remove it first, meaning after taking all bolts out the last bot to remove should be the 12 o'clock one at the end correct
The 12:00 bolt does not need to come out at all.
I always wonder if it’s possible to take all of the hydraulics off of the E60’s transmission, and convert it to 7speed manual (like how E46 SMG can be swapped to manual in this manner)
7 speed transmission has a better gearing for the S85’s powerband, and 7 speed manual in a v10 sedan, if doable, would be a strange and amazing conbination
It is theoretically possible, but the shifting pattern would be way out of whack. The gears are not in order 1-2-3-4-5-6/7 like the E46 M3's 6-speed SMG II.
I have always wonder what would the 7 speed smg pattern be if the electronics were removed and made manual? dreaming it is a dog leg H pattern with reverse top left and gear 1 bottom left with 6th top right and 7th bottom right...
@@quea6593 Exactly what I was hoping!
Excellent work mate! Would you be willing to do this kind of work or know a shop that would be willing to do the conversion on my M5? I'm based in SF
Thank you! And absolutely, I offer this service to my customers at our San Diego based shop. Email me at ryan@e39source.com for more information please.
Is there a specific reason the E92 Clutch & Flywheel won't work? I am hearing they will work, but no specifics and the m5 flywheel is extortionate at this point.
The E9X M3 clutch and flywheel work just fine, and we've been using them for years since this conversion.
They made 1200 manuals for the US
Why did you decide not to put a gearbox oil cooler in? Like a mocal unit?
Because we won't need it.
How much does it cost to do a manual transmission from SMG on an M6 e63 and how long would it take?
Thank you for the comment! Please email me at ryan@e39source.com for more transmission conversion details.
Technically, does the dct from the e9x fit in the s85 since the manual from the s65 fits the s85?
Yep a few people have done s85 dct's
Yes, it would fit
I might have missed it but why did you go with an E90 gearbox rather than an E60 manual gear box?
E60 M5 manual gearboxes pretty much don't exist, it could take years to find one.
@e39source question I am looking at an e39M5 with 198k miles and 15 years of maintenance records or a 2006 m5 with 73k miles with lots of big ticket items done new smg pump clutch rod bearings etc. Any thoughts would be appreciated
This all comes down to personal preference. You should drive both the E39 and E60 M5s, and see which you prefer. They are VERY different cars.
@@E39Source driven e39m5s. Trying to find an e60m5 to drive to compare. Thanks again
I prefer the longer videos personally
I Own the same vehicle. Been getting a code P1209 - Injector Control Pressure System Fault .
I replaced two Throttle Body Actuator, Fuel Pressure Sensor, Spark Plugs, new oil change, but still not able to fix it.
Any ideas on what could be the problem????
The P codes are very generic, I would recommend getting a BMW-specific scan tool. After a quick google search comes up with this www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1516278
@@E39Source Thank you!
This is like ASMR for cardudes 😏
A creep function would help SMG III, but probably mahoussive programming. A button to turn it Lamborghini orange at will - almost as unrealistic.
Now to throw an idea. Does the new 8 speed torque convertor Auto BMW`s. Been tried ??
I haven't ween it done, but I also wouldn't want it. The 8 speed is horribly boring and numb to drive.
@@E39Source Really. Its in the current M cars. Its miles better than the SMG , its as quick as a duel clutch without the low speed gremlins. I`d back its reliability over the other 2 by the length of the straight also. I just think that with so many of these 8 speed ZF gearboxes becoming available. There would have to be a market for some after market shop to get it right. PS . The 6 speed manual is not geared for the V10. . It leaves holes its performance.
@@kennethroberts9626 Yes, it is fantastic on paper from a performance and reliability standpoint. But for this M5, we aren't looking to extract every last drop of performance from it. It's just a fun car to drive, and having a clutch and shifter on a V10 sedan will be epic. At the end of the day, the ZF8 is used on all the new Buicks and Chryslers, and in my opinion, has no business being in a BMW performance product.
Hardest part is the pedal set lol!