Do you need a bass amp? Let’s talk about DI bass rigs (Bass Chat No:3)
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2020
- #gavinforbesmusic #basspreamp #bassrig
I hope you enjoy this weeks video all about DI bass rigs.
This video looks at the ins and outs of using an ampless rig, monitoring, using cab sims for drive sounds and we will even listen to a few of the affordable preamp options on the market.
Time codes :
Intro to preamps/DI’s 00:29
Pros and cons of a DI bass rig 02:21
When can a DI bass rig be used 03:46
Lets listen to some preamps:
Eden WTDI and Behringer BDI21 talking 05:00
Eden WTDI and Behringer BDI21 playthrough 06:47
Quilter and Behringer GDI21 talking 07:43
Quilter and Behringer GDI21 playthrough 10:09
Cab sims 11:13
Monitoring 13:25
Final thoughts on DI rigs 16:47
Gear used in this video:
•Eden WTDI
•Behringer GDI21 and BDI21
•Quilter Phantom Block
•Danelectro Battery Billionaire
•Radial Bigshot ABY
•Korg Pitchblack tuner
•GojiraFx Sub Dark Fuzz
•Practical Patch cables
All the bass tracks were recorded on my Fender Jazz bass with old Rotosound Jazz 77 strings.
Drums are samples in Ableton controlled via the Roland TR8.
Song in the background is my song ‘41Hertz’. To hear the song without me talking over it you can listen hear: • 41 Hertz (Music Video)...
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Thank you very much for watching and until next time, keep working on those bass faces!
All music written, performed and recorded by Gavin Forbes.
Great review, i learned a lot. Thanks!
Thank you so much for saying that. I really appreciate it! So glad it was useful. Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
Nice vid! That Eden DI sounds nice and tight, definitely has the Eden sound.
Thank you! Yeah it’s definitely got the signature Eden vibe! I love it! Thanks again!
Super informative! Thank you!
Thank you! That means a lot. I’m glad it was useful. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks
Gavin
Excellent video and explanations
Thank you! I really appreciate that and am so glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching and commenting.
Thanks again
Gavin
very useful, cheers.
Thank you, appreciate that!
Totally agree with everything covered here. I like a nice clean sound and the use the Eden WDTI preamp myself. It sounds great. For most gigs when we are using our own production, I will use a set up custom molded in ear monitors and no amp on stage at all. It's the ideal setup for me and the mix in my ears is always great. It's like being in the studio. If I don't know or trust the production I will be using, I bring along one of my Schroeder bass cabinets and Epifani UL501 amp. Then I just ask for my vocal in a wedge monitor and I'm good to go. This video covers the scenarios really well.
Thank you very much for this comment, I really appreciate that! That sounds like a fantastic rig you are running, perfect for all scenarios! It’s amazing what the technology allows us as musicians to do now and how much it makes our lives easier from a gigging perspective.
Thanks again for watching and commenting!
Thanks
Gavin
What I don't really like of playing live without a loud amp is tah you loose the posibility to get a feedback frequency matching to the bass strings so you can play really long notes and even work on harmonics and octaves.
I think this is your best video yet. Great presentation and love your track playing in the background. How much are you for the licence to it I wonder?? Haha
Thanks for that! Really appreciate it! I’ll be putting out more videos like this so hope you enjoy what I have coming up! I’m sure we could work something out haha thanks again!
GREAT vídeo
Thank you! I really appreciate that.
Close to the tone I need. Hope my Marcus will step up!
That’s great, glad to hear it! Hope you have fun recording music with your set up!
Nice demo! WTDI I have, it’s good, only thing I found lacking is the dirt or drive.
Thank you! You are so right, it’s a proper clean preamp. No grit on board really.
For a long time it was my clean tone for that reason - but for grit I was actually favouring the behringer BDI21.
Currently I’m using my markbass amp’s onboard preamp and di for its ability to do the clean but also take drive pedals well.
Hope your WTDI serves you well. Thanks again for watching and commenting! I really appreciate that.
Thanks
Gavin
A mate of mine just purchased a £130 Donner bass and was completely unimpressed with the pickups (as was I). So much so, he was minutes from ordering an £80 set of EMGs to replace them.
That was until we ran his bass through my Eden WTDI.
I already knew what it did for my upscale basses (with Bartolini pickups) but had no idea it could make a set of very budget pickups sound world champion class. And it certainly did.
Needless to say, he ordered the WTDI instead.
That’s great to hear! Honestly you can’t fault the Eden, it’s a crackin preamp with some awesome tones. I’ve even recorded guitars through mine cos sounds so good. I love it!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks
Gavin
Ordered a GTi21. I've read it's good for bass, maybe even better than the the BDi21. And here you are getting nice sounds from it. Good.
Awesome! It’s a cool pedal! Makes for a really nice drive pedal as well as a gritty DI on bass. Sorry for the delayed response - didn’t get any alert about this comment.
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Thanks
Gavin
Brilliant advice 👍. I’m pretty new to the bass and after a year or so and now play a 3/4 double bass in a string band. It’s fine through my Lane amp ( which has a pre amp) but through our band’s mixing desk the signal is pretty low. I’ve bough the BD 121 to try and boost the signal. I’ll let you know how I get on👍
Thanks! I really appreciate you watching and commenting. That’s awesome, glad to hear you’ve taken up the double bass! I haven’t personally used that pedal for a double bass but can totally see that doing the job for you for sure! Please do let me know how you get on. Thanks again!
I personally like the Eden, having had their rig (WT + Speakers), their DI is very similar. You can add the Taurus Bass preamp, very versatile and the Palmer Pocket Bass amp, both are really good and have more connectivity options.... My sweet spot will still be for the Line6 BassPod XT family...
I totally agree, love the Eden preamps. Currently checking out the terra nova module as have heard great things. Likewise, the Taurus preamp sounds awesome and would love to check one out. Those palmers seem really flexible too. And the Bass Pod XT is becoming a bit of a classic at this point, some really great sounds!
I think the whole scene of preamps/DIs for bassists is getting really interesting with so many awesome options!
Thank you for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it!
Many thanks
Gavin
@@gavinforbesmusic5164 I think you have quality content, looking forward to new videos. Chers!
Thank you I really appreciate that. Hope you enjoy the video going live tomorrow.
Hello, what a great video as always friend! I'm thinking of buying the behringer bdi21, but I want to use it directly to my amplifier without any interface process or XLR ... do you think it would add some noise?
Thank you, I really appreciate that!
I think the behringer can sound really good. I’ve found the noise is only really present when really boosting treble/presence or the gain, which is almost to be expected.
I wouldn’t have thought would create more noise going into an amplifier but it really just depends on your set up.
You may find you need to do some tone shaping at the amp or the pedal to make the two combine well (as it’s a preamp running into the preamp of your amplifier).
This does also mean that you can do fun things like have a completely different tone set up on the behringer almost like giving your amp a second channel (one clean on the amp and then a driven/ brighter sound from the pedal).
I hope this explanation helps. Thanks again for watching the video!
Good one, pretty comprehensive presentation. Like an informational video from the 80's. I wish they played this for us instead of the drink fluoride every day movies they showed us. Can you imagine if your first grade, second grade... eighth grade classes had music, music tech instructional videos? Like, "This is a bass root and 10th played at the same time, it is like a bass chord. And with your pinky you can play a harmonic!" Or, "Make sure your DI has a ground lift so you don't get that 'hum' (and they'd play a 60hz tone and show you a sine wave)." Man, we all could have been competent musicians, recording engineers by the time we left grade school.
World would be a better place! Can you imagine a nation of musically competent people, on musically relevant instruments, not like "I took Oboe for 4 years. You want me to get it out of the closet? No, okay. Why are you running away?"
The JAMS MAN! Everybody could be jamming out with everybody else. Like, "Here comes grandpa, he plays wicked synth bass lines, listen to this!" And Grandpa drops his Moog and plugs in, and just rips phat synth bass lines. What a world! Well, you're doing your part, at least!
Up your image quality though, mate. I'm glad you've gone ahead and made these videos, I know how much work it is to shoot, and then to edit all of the shots, trust me in that. BUT, in this day and age, you should be able to get a high rez 1080p video quality, no problem. Can't recall if you were using video lights or just your room's ambient light? Remember, the camera isn't recording the things in front of the camera, its recording the light reflecting off of the things in front of the camera. So, more light, the more there is to record. It's like turning up your amp, there's just more sound to be heard there.
You can get really inexpensive LED light kits from China these days. A little diffusion, and you're good to go. They don't terrorize your power/audio as well, and they're not hot like they used to be. Back in the day, you'd be running halogen lights, they'd light stuff on fire if they were too close, seriously, not even kidding. You have a 1,000 watt halogen... it'd light up your diffusion! I remember always keeping a fire extinguisher handy when shooting. You'd also be sweating like a dawg. In between shots, you'd definitely shut the lights down. ANYWAYS.
Better quality image man, it's a must in this day and age. You can do it! This is the first vid of yours that I've seen, my computer was gasping as I was watching, I have over 500 tabs open in my browser, and I'm scared to hit play again. But if you have the same shot in all of your videos, you can just install your lights in the room, and just flip a switch or two, and your lighting is sorted. And you'll get a much cleaner image, even without upgrading your camera, just because the camera that you are using (cell phone?) is getting enough light to digitize the analog light into a clean digital image.
All the best!
Thanks for the compliment on doing the videos. I have gradually improved what I’m doing and hope to continue to build (currently shoot in 4K - but Have to downscale to 1080p for UA-cam just now ).
But hey we all have to start somewhere and build.
@@gavinforbesmusic5164 Almost no one is viewing content in 4k. I watched in 720 and 1080 and your image looked like 480, seriously. I thought youtube had throttled the video speed for some reason. Perhaps your low rezing of 4k is not optimized? Maybe better to shoot in your output format.
Maybe your ccd(s) aren't getting enough light?
Either way, it looks like 1999.
Saying all this, and spending this time, out of love. Thanks again for the vid!
really good, I have the eden wtdi and i lve it. Have you tried the eden glow plug toghether ?
Thank you, so glad you liked it. Yeah the wtdi is awesome! No I haven’t tried the glow plug but it’s definitely on the list, thanks for the suggestion.
Thanks again for watching.
Gavin
Great video. Thank you for this. Just a quick Q please. Arent the Behringer pedals redundant? Both the Eden and Quilter pedals should work well for live setting without the Behringers pedals am I right?
Thank you! I appreciate that. I can totally see why you would think that. But interestingly they are all tonally different and it’s almost like having different amps for different things.
I also use a combination of them all in my current rig as I split my tone into 3 separate signal chains. The 2 behringers and the Eden. I don’t use the quilter currently thanks to me being clumsy and damaging a switch - my fault 100% and not due to their product.
But yeah it’s definitely a good point you raise as you would likely only need whatever one is in your price point and meets your criteria. I only have them all due to my rig needs.
Great question. Thanks again for watching!
Thanx Man
Good and thorough review of the choices
Cheers From Free Florida
Resin Ball Studio
Have to laugh , I heard Gremlin at first , not Ground Lift
Ears and brain ain't wut they uuuz ta be
Thank you for the comment. I really appreciate that. If it’s any consolation, with me and the way I speak- it really could have been gremlin or ground lift 😂
Thanks again for watching and commenting.
Thanks
Gavin
hello, does the preamp pedal XLR has the same "-20db" as the DI on the level knob? my bass is a ibanez gio with active with bad sound on unbalanced cable
Hello, I’m not too sure about the Eden WTDi and struggling to get reliable results online about the exact spec- but I do know the Eden terra nova module (which I’m hoping to try out properly soon) has a Db pad switch for the Di output.
As for your bass, if it’s just the cable running from your bass to an amp/pedal/interface it should really be an unbalanced cable as guitar signals are unbalanced. But even a simile Di box would allow you to convert it to a balanced XLR if that is what you require, and those tend to also have Signal pad switches too.
The balanced signal out of a Di or preamp will always be better for recording or live use as the XLR cable design reduces noise/hum and provides a cleaner signal.
Those Ibanez basses are so cool!
I hope that helps. Thank you for watching and commenting, if you have any other questions please do leave them here!
Thank you
Gavin
Great video! Curious if you have used multi effects pedals, or any pedals, between the bass and the Eden WTDI? Any reason that wouldn't work? For gigs I use a Boss me50b in front of an Eden WTX500 with two 210 Eden cabs. To your point though, for places with good monitors, I could just use my wtdi and skip the amp and cabs, right? I like having the boss for a tuner, volume pedal, and effects. A pedal and wtdi would be nice and easy! Thanks
Thanks! I do in fact use pedals before the Eden wtdi as you describe in my rig currently actually. You certainly could run it direct to the pa with good monitors too. The only issue is that drives and fuzz fx can sound harsh direct without a cab sim / Impulse response. So you really would have to have that after the Eden to give the response of the speaker on your direct signal. There are many of those in the market, as well as some other preamps that have them built in. But if you don’t use overdriven tones ( or like the harshness - personal taste is personal) then you don’t need the dab sim and can just run direct from the Eden like you say.
Hope that helps. Thanks again for watching and commenting!
Thanks
Gavin
@@gavinforbesmusic5164 Thanks for the reply and thoughts. No drive or fuzz of my jam band. Just the occasional octave, chorus, flanger, delay. I will do some a/b compare if I can sneak in early to a gig and the sound engineer will humor me... :) Maybe six pack worthy! :)
Ah well if no drive or fuzz, no cab sim needed! One of my DI rigs is just the preamp after chorus and octave and I love the tones! Oh yeah you should definitely try it out if you get the chance. Worth a six pack for sure! Haha
Thanks again!
which one did you recomend for a bass, the bdi or gdi one? it seems that gdi have more feature than bdi
Both good for different uses. The BDI is better for traditional clean and driven bass tones- the drive tones can be really great!
But while the cleans from the GDI aren’t common normal bass tones, the high gain sounds from it for my set up are really good on bass.
It really depends on the types of tone you want, but for good traditional bass tones at a good price, you can’t beat the BDI.
More distorted tones can be done on either but like you said, more versatile on the GDI.
Both can be a little hissy in the top end when settings are at extreme settings but that can be tamed and made into some fantastic tones.
I hope that helps. Thanks for commenting and watching the video.
Many thanks
Gavin
@@gavinforbesmusic5164 thanks man appreciate it
No worries!
Can you plug straght into interface for recording.
Yeah you can certainly do that. The advantage of a di box is that it converts your signal into a balanced signal. That means it filters out interference, noise, buzzing and also gives a stronger signal for running long distance with your cables eg from the stage to the mixing desk or in the live room if a studio to the control room. Even when using a snake, it’s a better practice in those situations.
But if you are just sat next to your audio interface there is absolutely nothing stopping you from just plugging straight in. I even do it sometimes for throwing down ideas and demos quickly. But even just a simple passive di isn’t a bad thing to have for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
The ones on in this video are preamp / di pedals which also add in some tone shaping which is very handy in certain situations too. But again not essential.
Hope that helps. And thank you for watching and commenting.
Thanks
Gavin
@@gavinforbesmusic5164 Thanks.. I for sure want a DI with a preamp built in
The Duff Beer still sounded like ass even through a cab sim, what's up with that?
Think maybe that’s just not the fuzz for you. But that’s the great thing about pedals, we all like different things. It is a very specific voice of fuzz. I personally love it but like most fuzz pedals, not necessarily for everyone.
Thank you for watching and commenting. And sorry about the very delayed response. I didn’t get any alert about this comment so only just seeing it now.
Thanks
Gavin
When i use behringer bdi 21 with xlr out in live gig What can I do? can i use power supply or phantom power for power to preamp di ?? Please say 😐
As far as I am aware, the BDI21 cannot run on phantom power, and trying to do so risks damaging the device. So only options are a battery or a power supply. Best bet for gigs would be to run it on a power supply. Hope that helps.
Can you help me 1 thing ?? Please
i have volume pedal , Bass limiter enhancer ,Bass Eqlizer nd preamp di . I have shecter SGR C-5 Passive pickup bass
how to create proper chain for my rock band live gigs ?? Please help me 🙂
The order you said there is probably where I would start. Limiter/ enhancer into the EQ then into the preamp.
But really there is no right or wrong, try swapping the eq and the limiter round to see what you prefer. You’ll always need the preamp last to send the DI out into the PA if that’s how you are using the preamp.
Hope that helps.
Thank you for your help man love from india ❤️🥰
No problem at all! All the best with the bass rig and enjoy performing! Thank you for checking out my video!
Thanks
Gavin
Nice a Mexican Jazz....
Thanks! I love that bass! Thanks for watch in the video and commenting. I really appreciate it.
If you want an artificial bass tone, then any DI is perfect. Otherwise, use a REAL fucking amp.
I have a Gallien Krueger 400rb, in my opinion the best sounding rock amp ever made! Thru a matching 212 cab it’s perfect!
But I’ve been playing direct for a couple of years now an nobody knows the difference but me.
I understand how you feel, swapping over to a di rig can be a shock to the system as some preamps do have a very different tone to your amp - particularly when using in ear monitors. It’s a very direct sound of not using can sims etc
I’ve been fortunate enough to find some that give me a tone live that I enjoy and that cut well live. But it still has a learning curve to get used to.
I think something important to note is that even with an incredible amp on stage, many times that is only for the on stage sound and a DI from the amp (or separate DI) is actually what we hear out in the crowd. And in the cases where the amp is mic’d up, often a DI is taken for blending or at least as a back up plan.
But that’s the great thing about music gear- there’s no right or wrong, just whatever suits what you do best. And if amps are perfect for you then that’s awesome that you’ve found what works for you.
I Appreciate your input and comment as all sides of the argument are valid and should be represented when it comes to these discussions. Some people can’t stand DI pedals and that’s totally fine- we all have different needs and wants.
Thank you for commenting and for watching. And sorry for the very delayed response- I didn’t get any alerts about this comment so only just seen it now.
Thanks
Gavin
That’s a killer amp! Awesome set up. Yeah I find my markbass is basically a fancy DI box these days - particularly in the studio haha
I don’t think I’ve done a non DI gig in years - over here seems to be the best way to make sure sound engineers are confident in getting the tone they want out front.
Thanks for commenting and watching!
Thanks
Gavin
@@gavinforbesmusic5164 I don't know why I was so aggressive with my comment, so I apologize for that.
I personally prefer a Mesa Boogie Mark III through Fender Rumble bass cabs. I mainly play metal genres and a perfect example of my personal preference is Cliff Burton's Ride The Lightning tone with a few tweaks.
If I could get a Sansamp or any DI box to sound similar to that, I would probably switch to one, but I never had any luck.
No problem at all, don’t worry about it. It’s a fair argument as well cos amps 100% still have their place.
That sounds like an epic rig you have there with the mesa! Sounds perfect for that cliff vibe.
I think something that maybe wouldn’t get you there with the sansamp (or similar) is the direct in your face feel. But that can be somewhat tamed with cab sims and even a touch of reverb and compression.
But honestly, if that rig you have works for you then why change. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it - Sounds like a killer rig.
For me I always have the DI as a back up plan as a worst case scenario but find that the di in my mark bass amp weirdly sounds identical to the amp so 99% of what I do now is actually a feed of that.
Thanks again for engaging with the channel. Appreciate it.
Thanks
Gavin