What is a Brush Gun?
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
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In this video we pose the question, "what is a brush gun?" and attempt to shed a little light on the myth of big, flat bullets simply trucking through thick brush and thin pointy bullets veering off into the great unknown. Lets see what happens...
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Don't shoot at anything when something is blocking your sight. Except for war. When I got back from overseas, I went in the " deer woods" with 3 other's. 2 where brothers, I stopped one brother from shooting through brush, I put my hand on the barrel and said no! We waited about 3 seconds and his brother walked out with the fourth guy. He just going to shoot thinking it was a moose. I left and never went out with them again.
Be safe and sure, use your thinking compartment when in the deer woods.
That’s how “accidents” happen.
Exactly. I know that he was just demonstrating to prove a point regarding caliber and bullet design but watching him struggle to see the target made me nervous just sitting and watching from my computer.
Well they must not have been wearing blaze orange then. Their fault.
Here in Germany, a father accidentally shot his own son in a Situation like that.
They were hunting hogs in a corn field. The son wanted to be funny and crawled around making pig noises. The father shot at the direction of the noise, and Killer his own son.
Always know what you are shooting at.
@@KarstRats not everyone wears blaze orange. Same rule applies though- if you can't see it get your booger picker off the trigger
One of the first hunting-related guidelines my father instilled in me when I was a boy was "If you don't have a clear shot, don't pull the trigger."
Your father gave you solid advice but sometimes you just have to overcome obstacles.
Agreed kennth. Obstacles Like how to not be stupid and shoot when you know better
There can always be small twigs you can't see. I think that's the concern when shooting in the woods. You should never fire a gun in thick brush when you don't have a clear view of the target.
I can agree with you too Charles. Well said
Absolutely. So many guys spray and pray, injuring animals and giving responsible hunters a bad name. We need as few bad shots and poor judgment calls as possible. The animals we hunt deserve at least that
Love that quote, ".30 cal does expand, but a .58 doesn't shrink."
Did not take long to find the best comment. My thoughts exactly.
6.5 creedmore literally yeets itself sideways when it touches a leaf.
😂😂😂
Lol. i shot a deer through a tree about 1-2" around and hit the deer only a couples inches off with a 6.5
Chimkin Pot Pii There’s a 6.5 hater in every comment section
@@tylermccune7092 true and its kinda sad to be honest
😂
This is why you should always hunt with a musket. You can't keyhole with a roundball.
And they curve so neatly around big trees once they start spinning.
Let's just use a cannon
@Bill Randall yawing and a keyhole completely separate things.
Bill Randall a spherical object cannot turn on its side. Which is what key-holing is
Flint lock!
The term Brush gun is a description of a short barrel, low velocity, light weight, easy to carry gun, in thick brush
Almost like a Stagecoach gun ?
@Hammer_of_creation or scout rifle...
My view is a cheap gun but trusty something you don't care if gets banged up
Hammer_of_creation you gotem better usem can't leave them at home just to say up you got one they are a tool so you use them I
It's legal to use 50BMG on deer.
The smile on your face after firing the last 45-70 round was priceless! True happiness! Very fun video and worth the watch. Only thing missing is a 30-30. Yes it’s a little lightweight, but can definitely kill an Elk or deer.
30-30 is a good deer cartridge and yes it can take an Elk but it's definitely not ideal. Elk going down after being shot with a 30-30n isn't pretty I would step up to a bigger cartridge for Elk.
Killed my first deer with a 30-30. Shot in the shoulder and it dropped. Love that little round.
I have a 45 70 Marlin SBL but I have Dads old JM 30 30 and I love that gun. Probably more deer dropped with a 30 30 over the years than any other round.
Excellent video showing the difference between a pointed (SPITZER) high velocity bullet vs a slower moving , heavier flat nose bullet moving through a brush type environment. When first being trained with a M16 carbine (semi & fully automatic) at the range at Lackland AFB in 1967, we were told that even small branches could cause the bullets to stray off target. We were told to shoot when we had a clear targets! I never liked the looks of the M -16s despite aquiring a small arms expert ribbon using one & decades later I purchased an AR-15 type firearm (Sig Sauer M400) and it is nice to shoot because of its low recoil. My Marlin 336, .35 Rem LEVER Action, is a lot of fun to shoot also but after a couple of boxes are used, my shoulder begins to feel it. Ha! After passing the 70 yard line, eyesight & eye-hand coordination are not the same as they were in my 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, & 60s. So is life!
"45-70 is the best brush gun"
12G slug gun: "Hold my beer"
I've cut down saplings with my Mossberg
“Hold my Kool-aid”
10 gauge slugs git'erdun!
* "Hold my deer"
I have a Benelli SuperNova, capable of firing 3½inch shells.
My Winchester Super XX Magnum Turkey loads already have the energy of a .308, but with 63g of shot.
Some day I will make some slugs and see how they will perform. 😁
I am an Army Vietnam combat infantry NCO. Once the teething pains of the M-16 (chrome bbl and chamber and ball powder in the cartridges) were sorted out, in my opinion, it was a better rifle for that theater than was the M-14. In a year of combat in RVN (68-69 in III Corps) my well-maintained M-16 never let me down. My only gripe was that shooting at running targets beyond 300 meters, the 55 grain projectiles did not show any visible impact on the terrain for adjustment of elevation and lead. Contrarily, it is also my opinion that the the M-14 was a much better rifle than the M-16 or M-4 for battle in Afghanistan and Iraq, with the exception of urban entry battle. I enjoy your videos, Iraq Vet 8888. Well done and welcome home.
Thank you for your service sir. Yes many M-14s were brought out of storage and the better rifles were usually put into chassis systems and scoped. A lot of folks found that rapid follow up shots were necessary in both urban environments as well as out in vast open areas in the mountains. Personally, for A theater such as Afghanistan, to me, I'd run a .300 Win Mag semi auto if I had the choice in the matter...😇
God bless you, man. I have nothing but immense respect for everyone who was sent overseas in Vietnam, what a nightmare.
I thank you, brother, for your time you have given our beloved Nation.
As for distant targets with the 5.56 round, that is the reason the US went with a heavier projectile in the M-16 rifles. Supposedly, the new round was good on targets out to 500 or more yards. Personally, if I had to regularly shoot at long distance, I want an AR-10 in 7.62 NATO. As much as I like the M-14 platform, the AR platform is what I am most familiar with, and with that familiarity, and that is what I would perform best with.
Thank you again.
Corporal Justin P. Emery, USMC (91-95)
After seeing this you would have been better with big bore leaver actions in Vietnam!
@@Gieszkanne Only a moron would choose to carry a big bore lever action in a high intensity infantry war against a near peer enemy.
I always thought a Brush Gun was a beater you don't mind dragging through the briars all day. Additionally, it doesn't have to be a long range firearm and it needs to be easy to handle. Up until the proliferation of ARs and AKs, the only game in town were lever actions.
I’m a bad shot so I’m gonna blame my rifle for not being a “brush gun” for costing me the “trophy of a lifetime.”
Trees exist kolin sorry about reality
1:52 - .22 LR
3:30 - 5.56 mm/.223 Remington
5:25 - 7.62 mm/.308 Winchester
7:33 - .35 Remington
10:09 - .444 Marlin
12:24 - .45-70 Govt.
14:59 - .577 Snider
You're welcome :)
Thank you
👍
The real hero of the comments.
You sir are a mvp
NHV Railroader thank you!
I prefer to use a 40mm grenade launcher for a brush gun
No way a tow missile launcher is the way to go
Ha child’s play I use a 90mm m2 anti tank gun
@@cykabazooka4098 He also save a lot of knife work after that.
Can you imagine a 40mm Foster Slug?
Is this a fallout new vegas reference?
30/30 and 303 are our brush guns. My father was a Vietnam vet and came back with a love for the 303 and after years of watching what the round does it has been a staple in our family it's one that doesn't get the attention it deserves all you ever hear today is 5.56,223, 7.62,7.65 hear very little of the British 303 and it's actually a versitile round. My father spoke of his time in Vietnam where they were trading m16s for old enfields and some of the guys were laying fire with those old bolt actions as fast as semi autos if not faster in the jungles and swamps.
I've always called my 3030 a brush gun and been told it's a brush gun. I know guys on bear hunts who carried a 3030 for close calls. Like walking up on an unknown bear in the brush and it charge. But they had high powered rifles for long open shots like the 300 mag. Plus I'd like to see a 300 mag tested here.
.35 Remington does the .30-30 one better. Re: 300 win mag, what’s to test on a 180 grain moving at 3200 FPS besides how dead the target is.
was surprised to not see a 3030 in this video just cause all the old heads swear by the 3030 and say its a good brush gun of course not like a 45 70 but many folks tend to think of a 3030 as a solid brush gun
droppin plates same I grew up with the 3030 as my brush gun by my family. got a lot of slack for it from guys using a 30-06 till I'd out shoot them with iron sights.
I grew up in Missouri, in a forest with sometimes quite thick brush and never had a problem killing deer with my dad's marlin 30-30. I'm not claiming the caliber to be the absolute best or anything, but I liked it a lot and was sorry when my dad had to sell it when I was in the Military. I live in Arizona now where the 30-30 is not as useful at the longer ranges you can get but I still have a Marlin 30-30 336c just for nostalgia's sake, if nothing else.
Rotary Saw I live in nevada now and rather have been trying to decide between the 3030 or something for longer ranges here. sold my 3030 when I got out of the army. miss that rifle but if I'm gonna go range I'm looking at .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor.
For my dollar, I'd go .308, I don't know much about 6.5 Creedmoor. A quick look at the ballistics data seems to me like .308 winchester has it beat all out, unless like I said there is something I'm not seeing..
.308 is hard to beat inside 800yds due to popularity, availability and the shear amount of data on the load, I personally think the 7mm-08 is better at distance.
Missed out by leaving out 30-30 and 12G.
:(
30-30 is a good brush gun!!
I agree
@@ezyturner3753 I've got a pair of Winchester 94"s one in 44mag and the other is a 30-30 and both are great in the brush.
That's what I was thinking to my 30 30 with some Flathead bullets can cut right through some brush but I wouldn't try shooting a hundred yards through brush
Great test! I heard a guy say one time that there is no such thing as a brush gun. I think in heavy brush the heavier grain the better. Basic physics the heavier bullet has better momentum to stay on its path the lighter bullet is going to be deflected easier. But you definitely proved it! Thank you very much that was very fun and interesting.
then a 12 ga slug would be perfect for a thick brush with short distance. And this is confirming that in thick and dense woods of the South there's no need to a rifle/carbine to go hunting,, and even for home defense shotguns are so versatile, it's my go-to firearm.
In Pennsyltucky the 30/30 was always considered to be a brush gun. I’d be interested to see that added to the comparison.
Same in Michigan I was hoping he’d test that too
In pa 30/30, 35 rem, and 243, are the Cal to go to,,, 1shot 1 drop👍
I'd like to see the .38/.357 & .44 spl/mag shot too.
@@marktemplin1159 243 is a nice caliber. My father religiously hunted with his 243. This year my daughter got her first deer, using his rifle. Zero damage of the meat but an instant humane kill with no tracking required.
@@surfearth1 Iv dropped only 5 deer in my life,, going out and being there is what it's about for me,, but all 5, with my rem 788, 243,, not one took more than a step,, and if one takes there time and hots it right,, maybe some shoulder meat gets chewed up,, but it is an excellent caliber,, there are others,, and I'm only saying I found mine, and need no other 👍
A brush gun is an M134 minigun. It takes down brush real good.
perpendurcular 720 Phanlax CWIS. Nuff said
wtf are u saying bro?? U don´t understand the concept of a brush gun, a brush gun is a slow and powerfull bullet the minigun, bullets aren´t slow
@@cesarsr2090 why have a gun that won't be pushed around by brush when you can destroy the brush. Deer and the 6 houses behind it
@Paul Kersey Pfft that's my CCW. I use 105mm
Especially when fired by Jesse Ventura (Blain)
I'm from west virginia and best brush gun I was taught to used is a 30-30. I used a marlin when I first started.
People sleep on the .30-30 these days but it's still a great round. Gotta love a classic M94 .30-30.
I’m looking at getting my first lever action and you seem to be the right guy to ask, is there a huge difference between Henery and marlin? I’ve always wanted a marlin but some people will tell ya to go the other way and others will swear on the opposite, what do you prefer and is there any reason?
@@sancheznish8285 Henry is of higher quality in my opinion, but a I hear the newer Marlins that were manufactured by Ruger, are quite good for the money.
@@springfield03sniper that helps a ton, I’ll have to look into the rouger made marlins, certainly gives me a baseline! Much appreciated
I've got an older Model Marlin 30-30. I've used it for 20+ years. They are hit and miss. Not the most accurate guns. I've hit deer from 100+ yards with iron sights right through the heart, and I've missed other with s steady shot under 50 yards with a good sighted scope. Wish 30-30 would've been in this video. I'm wondering if my misses can be attributed to deflection. I can't speak for the new Marlins.
Your two brush gun videos together are excellent. They perfectly illustrate the points being made.
A brush gun is a gun that can shoot through brush. Done.
I am 56 years old and have hunted all my life in thick cover. A brush gun is more a short barreled gun than a caliber, such as a carbine with a low power scope or iron sights, that is easier to handle in thick cover than a full size rifle. A shot shouldn't be taken until the animal gives you an open shot... A Ruger 77 carbine in .260 Rem. has worked well for me for many years.
That's what I was told I used a Model 94 win. in 30/30 my first year when you are walking the trails you really don't want a large gun short barrel no scope & heaven forbid you drop it good old iron sites still worked not to many scopes would work after you dropped them .
Bryan: What I thought too
Bryan thats what ive always thought, a small gun with a kick designed for bears or large game. Bush pilots used them, I could be wrong.
I thought it'd be a gun disguised as a brush, like how a swordstick is a sword disguised as a walking stick.
Meme Master This... Is my BROOMSTICK!
I've always thought a brush gun is a small gun to move easily through heavy brush. Like a 30-30. Had no idea it has to do with the caliber. Cool video thanks.
Or .44 carbine -- short but powerful!!
A brush gun is whatever you can shoot fast and accurately to pick a hole to shoot through when the vitals appear in that hole!
I would have liked to see where the .30-30 stood in this test.
That round probably has taken more deer over the last 125 years than any other.
Edward Pate I would say that's likely true. I'm just speaking specifically to the effect of brush on projectile trajectory.
JunkfoodZombie I don't know if you would want to use a 30-30 for hunting I can only take 5 shots without flinching
BOY Perfect I shoot a .45-70 regularly. The .30-30 ain't no thang. 😊
BOY Perfect 30-30 is the perfect starter gun for a young hunter. not much punch. I started off on a 32special. pretty similar. I now sport a 300 mag. that will set ya back a bit.
I was raised on a horse ranch, our brush gun, as is being called here, is what we called a 'saddle gun...scabbard rifle that, if you had to, was short and handy when you crawled through thick brush. We used lever action.30-30's. Good video, good info. Thanks
ok cowboy
Terry Graham or a Winchester 1886 in 45-70 or any of the Marlin 1894s big bores 44 and 45 hard cast SWC
Walt Lars you're making me want one just so I can cast some big hunks of lead..
44M or 45 LC 10 rounds throwing half a Oz of lead each great brush gun
Winchester 94 30-30
Yep....35 Remington just like my grandfather said.
His gun (that I still have) is a Remington Model 14 Pump, in 35 Remington. 👍
It goes through brush and knocks holes in Whitetails. Exit wounds are pretty dramatic.
That Henry 45-70 All Weather will be my next rifle :)
@Ray Adams henry has a side gate line, so they are the top dogs again.
I have always thought a brush gun was a shorter barreled weapon that could be easily brought up to Target in thick brush, like a bear gun for protection?
Works good for hogs too if they live in your area.
A 444 , 30-30 or 45-70 works great in the bush.
Hit the nail on the head.
Correct
where the hell Is the 30.30??????????????
This is about big heavy bullets that can smash through anything. I love the 3030 but my 4570 will go through a tree. To see what I mean look up 4570vs3030 under images and you will see it
+Tmanthekid 30.30 is the most rejoin brush gun of them hell it should at least be I the video even if ain't the most powerful
+andrew hill renoun*
I think the word you're looking for is "renowned".
I'd expect the 30/30 to be less prone to deflection than the .308. Probably close to the .35 Rem. in the video.
"Yew hew hew even that piece of privet head got cutted in half!" Hahaha yesss instant like
I have a Winchester Model 94 in .32 Special. I have yet to see a review of that cartridge. I still use it for west coast blacktails.
I've found a few videos. It's of interest to me because I just inherited my grandfather's model 94 in 32 spec!. I spent a couple hours cleaning and tinkering with it. I'm pretty excited.
Make sure it's Brush season! Not just Brier patch season, two different things! It took me years to shoot enough pine brush to build my cabin!
Hell yeah ,that's a good one,I think he should have tried a sling shot, and maybe throw a few hatchets
I did enjoy the video good info
Brush Gun was beast in Fallout New Vegas
tictac gaming haha yeah that gun was badass
tictac gaming yes
medicine stick. you have no idea how many legionnaires i had to kill to get the caps to buy that thing.
KYh3adhunter lol I got like 500,000 caps on that game
MississippiOutlaw good times, good times. i hope obsidian can make another fallout game.
I inherited my grandfathers favorite rifle. A Winchester 3030. What he called his brush gun. He used it to hunt deer in the hills of West Virginia. The best brush gun I have ever used. The one gun I own that ALL my friends wish they had. Given to him on the event of my birth by my mother in 1953. I cherish this gun.
*shoots 308 and hits 2/3* “see this is why these aren’t good brush calibers” *shoots and lever action hits 2/3* “as u can see this makes a great brush caliber, even tho I missed one it could’ve been just me”
I would want to see how a slug does
alpha dragon 16 good idea I'd like to see this too
I'd like to see some custom loads too. That'd be cool.
I've heard people say slugs go right through the brush like there's nothing in their way. On the other hand I've also heard about some crazy ricochets of twigs. That said, you shouldn't really be shooting at an animal if you can't even see it properly. That's not safe. It could be something/someone you don't want to kill.
alpha dragon 16 I would want to see how well gandhi does
alpha dragon 16 they do really good I killed a buck in a River bottom with 1 1/4 oz light field at 80 yards all brush
From growing up in thick forest and heavy brush...A "brush gun" is short-barrelled, .30cal or greater, shooting a fat/heavy bullet, with iron sights.
Short barrel is easier to swing around in thick brush.
Large caliber/heavy bullet won't deflect against brush. (leaves and light branches that deflect small/fast bullets).
Iron sights are faster to acquire and do not "blur" against brush like scopes do.
At close range, a slow heavy bullet is best against a dangerous predator (bear, cougar, etc.)
Yep that exactly what I was taught by old timers I grew up around 30 cal or greater
That what i tought, shooting trough brush is not safe
You are right.
Yes indeed !
When I’m out in the brush I always bring my medicinal m1a1 Abrahams
Would have similar results as the 35 with the overlooked 45LC. Every deer I shot was dropped where it stood with one round.
How dare you call *THAT* a “Gong” Hickok 45 would be saddened
I was thinking the same😂
ever see the price!?!?I was saddened
Hickock would never go in the "Deer Woods" either
Great! Instead of explaining to my wife why I need a "Brush Gun" I can show her this video!
But for real, that you for this great content.
GunsWithGage I hope for future videos for you to convince your wife to buy more guns
wesjwa andrews thanks. Me too. Haha
GunsWithGage good luck on that note. lol
Why do you need to ask your wife's permission to buy things you enjoy with your own money?
Rad Bromance it was a joke. My wife loves guns as much as me luckily
👍🇺🇸🐍💪.thanks for the video Eric. I love mine. I found it about three years ago at a lgs here in NW AL. Its a Marlin 336 in 30-30 and from what I've researched its made in 1976 and has the JM stamped barrel. Luckily although been used its still in awesome condition . I payed up a little bit I think bc it was worth it to me bc you never see the older ones especially in good condition. So I don't think $475 total was too bad all things considered. And like your area there in Georgia, here in NW AL its mostly brushy land and hard to find 150+ open yard shots. Even though I have other calibers in other platforms, my go-to for deer and hog is that one. 30-30 is still very relevant. Even heard its probably took the most deer of any others. Who really knows though. Really doesn't matter. But thanks man and take care.
Awesome testing! I always thought "brush gun" meant smaller rifle (like a lever action) but now I understand total concept. I think if you redid some of this with the LEVERevolution shaped bullets I wonder if the results for those heavy calibers are the same? Or is the profile of the tip a big factor too?
The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other rifle caliber but you left it out. Second caliber with most deer kills would probably be 30-06 and you left it out too.
Tell em Freak
Freak Beast Just got one with my 30-30 the other day.
I don't think he left anything out. I think Eric set out to make a vid simply explaining what a brush gun is and how the bullet dynamics work.
Freak Beast 30 06 has killed more deer. atleast with a my extended friends and family.
Freak Beast that's what my brush gun is 30-30 very good gun.
Several years ago one of the gun magazines put out a different test on the effects of brush. A piece of pegboard had rows of 1/4" wood pegs attached. Then firing along the row of pegs it was noted that light fast bullets deflected greater than the slower heavier bores. Conclusion was when a 55 gr 223 hit a twig at 3000 fps the twig also hit the bullet at 3000 fps. 45-70 405 gr bullets plowed a straighter line through the pegs
I hunt by pulling a “Thanos”. I pull a planet out of the sky onto my game. 45 70 was too small. Those rabbits never saw me coming....
Pretty thick brush for a 30/30, but in the real world it would be all one would need. Good review, Semper Fi.
Amazing I never knew that high velocity bullets are easier to change direction. It shows that old bullets with low velocity has their advantages. A nice test! Very impressive.
Just think of it as a Corolla doing 100mph vs. a dump truck doing 75mph.....both "may" have the same energy, but the lighter Corolla will be easier to change directions upon hitting something....including wind.
I live in Texas I dont know about other states but hunters education will tell you not to shoot at any game you cant clearly see and identify. A lot of hunters have been accidentally killed by other hunters that saw what they thought was a deer and did not completely identify. Great demonstration though, and complete agree with the slow heavy round punching through the jungle lol. I prefer 180 grain soft tip .308 Winchester.
Not only that, in Ca. you can't shoot does or spikes, or other hunters.
Same in PA. Except they say if you can't see behind it too.
@@curtleake2191 why you wanna shoot a spike? Can't be for the antlers, they aren't much for meat in most cases, but hey whatever.
@@JM-bb8xi I guess you missed my point.
I think we can agree this is an exaggeration on what would be considered shooting through other than for self defence. There can still be small sticks hanging off trees on the way to a clear sighted game.
Thanks that was a very good practical field test. I would like to see the test repeated, but this time shoot from a bench to minimize variations in placement.
My brush gun is a drilling with two 12 gauge side by side and one 9.3 x 74R below. I can put an extra 9.3 insert barrel into one of the 12 gauge barrels, but in brush a Brenneke slug works well. I have a second set of barrels with two 12 gauge and one 7 x 57R. Again with an extra insert barrel. I also have an insert barrel in 22 WMR. I used to carry an repeater. But than I inherited the Drilling with all the stuff and I have not used another gun for hunting since than. The Drilling is a short weapon compared to a repeater with the same barrel length. The insert barrels keep their aim once adjuster when removing and reinstalling them. Everything in one carry case.
If y’all anyone looks at this northern Wisconsin a 30-30 is considered one of the best brush guns because the barrel is short (someone from Alaska mentioned it so you can swing the rifle I shoot a 30-30 sense 1964) I shoot a model 94 made in 1950 using 170 gr
Long story shortened. I am the youngest of 5 children 3 boys and 2 sisters. My Dad bought the Winchester for my oldest brother (Bill), 1963 I bought it from Bill for $50.00 with the agreement to sell it back to him for a good reason. Bill had 5 kids only one son and when his son turned 14 he asked to buy it back so I sold it back and. Sadly Steve died in a car wreck after only 2 seasons of hunting. I was not comfortable asking Bill to buy it back. So it sat in his gun cabinet for a number of years then unfortunately I lost my brother to cancer in the 90s about 2 years later his wife asked me to get the values of the guns so she could sell. A couple of weeks later I gave her the values and I told her the story and told her I would buy one of the guns and she said the revolver that 4 other family members would like( S&W 357 w/scope 686 ) I said no I would like the 30-30 and I will pay you retail value. She said let me think about this for a couple of weeks. She called me and said you can pick up your rifle. I drove to her house with the money in my pocket. I was surprised,shocked, Thankful. She gave me our family’s 30-30 ,gave me. I still have it and it will continue being handed down hopefully for many generations. Praise God for watching over us all!
God bless us all in Jesus name amen.
i feel like someones gonna try a 700 nitro express for a brush gun, i mean $ 125 a shot is kinda of expensive, but it would go through 100 yards of thick brush with no issues lol.
You mean a 100 elephants
And a baby cat
Holy hell is it really that expensive? Never looked at it
Aren't those only in a double barrel though
And a group of orphans
Francis E Sell, author of the book “Get Your Deer” published back in the 1950s came to the same conclusion in his testing. There appears to be a sweet spot velocity wise between 2000 and around 2600 fps at the muzzle. In his testing the most important factor was not bullet shape or weight but velocity. His testing even included rounds of the same bullet weight and size fired from the same rifle just loaded to different velocity. Once that speed was reduced to around 2600 and below the groups tightened and the deflections though not completely disappearing began to have less effect on point if impact. This kinda explains why rounds like 30-30, 32 Win Special and 35 Remington have ruled the deer woods for so long.
Great experiment. A couple of things I would have included is set up an additional camera recording in slow motion with a profile view of the target and testing a 12 gauge running one ounce slugs.
A slow-mo camera good enough to see the bullets would be several thousand dollars I think.
I was taught growing up that a 30-30 is the standard by which all brush guns are measured.
Sevin Storey Agreed, but that includes most lever action rifles. For example, how else would you describe a.44 mag lever action but as a “brush gun”?
Yup, but basically thought any lever action Carbine with a caliber larger than .22 was pretty much a brush gun.
@@destynova4512 that's not true. I don't know your background or your history but where I'm from and I was raised in the mountains of Eastern Alabama the foothills of the Smokies, the 30/30 Winchester was definitely the go-to rifle. Now if you are out in the plains of Montana or Kansas and you could get off a 500 yard shot yeah then a 223, or a 30-06 would work. But when you were in those mountains and Hollows and surrounded by lots of shrubs and 3 inch or smaller trees then your go-to was definitely a 30-30 because it would plow through all that and still be able to make a kill shot I did it several times. Those other rifles would graze off of or ricoshit and guess what you just missed your deer. When the woods are thick the way they were where I grew up a 30-30 is the only rifle to have. Period. People talk crap about the 30-30 but I have actually set up a Target at 500 yards and hit the target even though their website claims 800 to a thousand yards and even up to 1200 yards if you can make the shot I feel more comfortable at 500 yards if I'm trying to humanely take an animal. But if I am in the middle a very thick brush and I can see a buck topping a ridge at 200 yards away and slowly making his way down into the valley I would have no problem at all lining him up and I don't use a scope don't need one and either taking a backbone shot where he Falls immediately which I've done several times or if I can see a heart shot where I can track him 40 or 50 yards, then that's my family's and some close friends supper and jerky for a month.
@@sevinstorey4365 hey I get it, just saying I'm from the desert, just agreeing always thought 30-30s and such are brush guns. Depends where you hunt, where I'm at a .357 could be a brush gun. Odds are you will see the buck within 100 to 50ft in the brush here. Want whatever you can confidently pick up and shoot quick accurately at that point.
@@sevinstorey4365 - hmmm...don't think I'd classify a .223 as a 500 yd cartridge for anything except opfor.
“Deer woods”...
That’s like going to your doctor for info and then saying your headache is in your “think holder”.
I literally laughed out loud at this and almost choked on my coffee trying to drink with my breath hole.
“Think holder” is obsolete, because it’s called a brain.
Deer woods may be a southern term, and if not it’s more efficient than saying in “woods where there may be deer”.
Well I’m headed to my deer woods with my meat getter right now so stay tuned on this people connecter thing
CHOGAN there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that
CHOGAN: I imagine a lot of people will find this hard to believe but every animal has a preferred or suitable habitat for survival...so not every wooded area is suitable for or inhabited by deer. As a youth I could lead you to rabbit warrens, deer woods and duck ponds, beaver dams, ant hills and snake pits. If you’re going to hunt successfully you need to understand this basic concept - go to where the animals are, not to where you would like them to be.
There is nothing ridiculous about the term “deer woods”...unless of course you’re a complete amateur.
Awesome quote for a t-shirt! "A 30 cal, yeah it expands but a 58 baby, it doesn't shrink!"
I love that ......a 30 cal will expand.....but a 58 cal wont shrink!
Great video !
I bought a single shot .35 Remington several years ago. Absolutely Love the way this thing shoots. Never missed and always a one shot stopper! Hunting in mixed hardwoods in North Central Mississippi.
Now, with several states adopting straight wall cartridge restrictions, the 357 Max Rimless and 350 Legend are starting to shine. They beat the old Remington's ballistics with very low recoil.
Eric - you really captured the essence of what Barry brought to the table with this one. Hard to explain, but I know Barry would be smiling.
30 carbine makes a fantastic brush gun, 450 Bushmaster, and 458 SOCOM are also fantastic.
Don't have any real experience with the .50 beowulf, but I've heard it's a great round as well.
My two favorite calibers for being in the Appalachian mountains, though, are the .308 and the .243.
.243 has been a godsend. Very fast round with little to no drop within the ranges you'll see clear shots in the woods. Every deer I've killed has been between 30 and 100 yards away, except for two I've had shots open up at +/- 400 yards, and the .243 handles that very, very well.
.308 needs no explanation. If you can't kill it with a .308 Winchester, you'd better run or hide from it.
.22: "It's not my shooting, this can hit a tack"
.35: "I'm shooting at a target that's very hard to see and if you could see it better you could kill it"
someone should show this to tfb to show them that the lever action is NOT an "obsolete" rifle.
redneckmini14 right? tfb sure made themselves seem like docks in that video
redneckmini14 I can't stand TFB tv. He is the ultimate mall ninja.
50 Beowulf in a AR makes lever guns obsolete.
The dude who made that video trolled the shit out of mosin and lever action guys
imparak No it doesn't. Not everybody is a millionaire and can spend a small fortune on a beowulf.
I used a 30-30 marlin in Pennsylvania's heavy brush
Same thoughts, only 30-30 Winchester here in Nova Scotia.
me too...
I hunt dense woods in TN and 30-30 is PLENTY
EXCELLENT!
I've been watching your channel for years but this vid just popped up. THIS kind of stuff is the reason so many of us love Paul Harrell's videos.
Again, most excellent video with good, relevant information. Job well done.
I'm glad I watched this. Even more glad I just bought a 450 bushmaster for this season.
I'm just kinda disappointed you don't try a 12 gauge slug and buckshot for this test. I know from personal experience that bird shot of all kinds will go right through.
Thanks for the info!
30-30 and 12 ga slug would be interesting to see how they fare in the bush test....
Out here in Montana ive used a 12g 2 3/4' slug for deer. The thing is so big and heavy it just destroys any brush that's between you and the deer or elk. Use 3 1/2 if you want to be sure. If 30-30 works at killing brush i wonder if a flat nosed 7.62x39 would work as well since they are both very close?
Load the spitzer bullets backwards.
I don't think you will do that anymore when you see your primers getting funky due to over pressure.
Hes right, Loading a bullet backwards is potentially dangerous. I was more talking like a lead casting semi wad cutter. Might mess up the AKM's feeding though as the ramp is pretty far away from the magazine.
Might work better on an SKS. A CZ527 would be ideal.
Seating a bullet backwards could be potentially dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. You need to keep the jump in the throat or reduce the load. If the base of the bullet jams into the rifling with no jump or is seated deeper in the case after contacting the rifling there may be a problem. But if you don't know how to make your loads safe you should stick to factory ammunition.
Very much appreciate the aspect of taking only the humane shot. Waaaay too many dipshit hunters that do not even take that into account when trying to take down a target.
kuribo1 yep. i was hunting and heard 5-6 rapid shots and a second later someone yelled "did i get him?!"
anchorage alaskan
Absolutely ridiculous. Not only possibly cruel but reckless and dangerous to boot. Not a true hunter with any sort of ethics.
kuribo1 yeah. that guys family tree has no branches and he probably had no teeth
What for taking out people who believe in pizzagate?
I very much support the notion of a humane shot. But... Regardless of caliber, if the deer's "guts" are perforated they will die from sepsis within days. Not that that would be acceptable.
.444 Marlin has about 5" less bullet drop than 45-70 at 200 yards for those times you aren't shooting through a thicket. I've had mine for about 35 years and never had any disappointments.
Suddenly I need a brush gun.
Good video.
I was taught that a brush gun was more about a gun that was easily carried through brush country, so a relatively compact, short gun for relatively short ranges, not a weapon for shooting at things you can barely see.
The Winchester model 1894 .30-30 that my grandfather hunted deer with was the quintessential brush gun.
Deer hunting is not the same as jungle combat. You didn't shoot animals that you couldn't clearly see.
Keith Roy yeah that makes alot more sense.
Keith Roy, I agree. to me a brush gun is another term for "truck gun". its light, compact and handy, but not made for shooting through brush or trucks.
Keith Roy what was the barrel length?
@@davidlinihan3626 20 inches or less.
If deer hunting for you isn't on par with jungle combat, then you're not hunting hard enough.
frankly. call me simple. but i just hunt with a 180 grain .30 06 soft tip and if i kant see behind it i don't shoot it.
Cletus The Stud do you?
Joshua Yow Thank you for being a safe hunter and following the basic safety rule of hunting, "if you can't see your target clearly and you can't see what's behind your target, you do not shoot!"
Cletus The Stud people who rely on hunting for food don't live in the woods.
Joshua Yow soft point round nose is the best. Used them for 25 years
If you're hunting to prevent starvation it doesn't matter if whatever you're killing is in season.
I have a geriatric Marlin 336 chambered in 35 Remington that has been my brush gun for a very long time. It has done its job quite well. Still, I have always made it a point to wait for as clear a shot as possible before pulling a trigger. I would never in a blue moon shoot through brush as dense as that in your test. But, I understand that this was a test.
I miss you Eric 😢
You were a guiding voice in my venture into firearms
He didn't go anywhere...
Born in 1950 I can say I was taught that "brush gun" was a short barrel lever action that was easy to navigate with in heavy brush.
Real Sharp Knives, most of them are or used to be. I always referred to a “brush gun” as a big slower bullet that there wasn’t much deflection through the brush. That was a short barrel lever gun back in the day. .35 Remington, .44 mag, .444, .30-30, .45-70. Never considered the smaller faster calibers as a brush gun because the brush would turn on of these lighter bullets.
I was taught that if do not have a CLEAR shot do not shoot your shots are not clear for sure should you should take those shoots in a real situations
Jeffrey Donaldson
Guy... You don't have to listen to the instructor if you are with a friend in the bush.... Why would you expect that a hungry guy looking for deer is going to pass up a kill because there are some bushes in the way? I'm not a gun fan but at least I know that!
BASIC HUNTER ED. You NEVER shoot at anything through brush that thick. If you can not absolutely 100% clearly see your target DON'T SHOOT. What if that deer you are shooting at is a hunter dragging out his kill? or some kid in the woods without blaze orange? What if it IS a deer and you shoot it only to find out that your deer is a buck but you only have a doe tag? Don' be stupid. Identify your target, know what is beyond your target and if there is any doubt hold off.
I believe you guys have missed the specific point he was trying to make. What I take from the video is not that he is advocating firing through brush at game animals but, that a larger, heavier, slower round can encounter a slight obstacle and still continue on with reasonable accuracy. I have seen this in my own experiences. I saw a deer 'burnt up' with a shotgun like blast after a .308 impacted a twig a few yards before it reached the deer. That twig was about half the diameter of a pencil and it caused the bullet to explode. The shooter couldn't have possibly seen that twig at the distance they were shooting from. In this video, the amount of brush is excessive to enhance the chances of a twig strike before the terminal impact for the purposes of the experiment.
absolutely.. too high of a chance of the shot hitting a branch, and then clipping the animal so that it is injured but gets away and suffers from the wound.
You're right.
Brush gun is any carbine length rifle, lever, bolt, pump or semi-auto that will shoot accurately between 100 to 150 yards. Caliber is not a factor. We also call them a "Truck Gun" here in Maine because they are easy to carry and you might be rolling down a log road somewhere and find a spot you want to hop out and go check out. I carried a Winchester Model 94 Carbine chambered in .44 Mag on the farm on the tractor and shot many coyotes with it.
Results are predictible but I died at "if you hunting through the thick stuff for a Bambi"
I've never hunted, but now I want one of those 45-70s
30-30 is a quality brush gun
@@michaeldaugherty3540
We use a lot of round nose .303 British for hunting in Canada. Everyone and their dad has an Enfield. Great bush gun
TheJewThatCuckedYou get a 45-70 I love them I reload and shoot them al the time. U can reload them so they don’t kick as much but after a box or so ur shoulder gets sore but it’s so fun.
You should look at 500 automax.
4570 is a great cartridge, really fun to shoot, I use a marlin 1895 and as far as recoil if you can comfortably shoot heavy shotgun loads then it shouldn’t be a problem.
clear and easy to understand speech, as an overseas Asian fan I admire you and grandpa hickok45 haha
I was taught to avoid shooting if your shot wasn't clear. Personally I've always thought of the term 'brush gun' as a rifle that you can take into the deep woods and have it serve all your needs while being durable. Something that can get you kills at a modest range yet also be good up close and fast to fire.
What about the humble 30/30 cartridge?
agreed, ive killed many deer in the woods with an old model 93. never let me down.
Good round, imagine minor deflection. Probably similar performance to the .35
I thought so. Here in the north island of New Zealand the scrub is insanely dense in deer country unlike the south island a lot of guys look at me sideways because i use an old marlin 336 with just a rear peep sight no glass when they have expensive rigs. Been using it along time and it has yet to disappoint me.
The much unappreciated thuddy thuddy
a Marlin 336SC 30/30 is the first thing I think of when I hear "Brush Gun".
so when you miss with a small caliber it's because of heavy brush, but when you miss with a "brush gun" it's just your point of aim being off huh? 🤔
It's really more about the group. All the heavy hitters triangulated respectively, while the small bore stuff shot erratically and keyholes all over the place regardless of how consistent my POA was. Definitive result if you ask me.
It makes sense though right? HV rifle rounds are cones, and are below 180 grains (tested in this video) as they contact the brush they tumble. So naturally you would want to use a heavier thicker bullet to punch through the brush. Also these guys have hit a steel plate from like 400 yards using a 9mm luger. There accuracy should not be taken into question.
Kyle St John it's physics, more mass = less deflection... it has nothing to do with velocity or bullet shape or even bore size.
toadamine the shape of the bullet definitely has an impact on how it's flight characteristics are especially as it eats through the brush. if not physics then aerodynamics
toadamine when all the other rounds keyholed huh 🤔
"45-70 is the best brush gun"
.458 win mag: Am I a joke to you?
Awesome video and drives home the point that high velocity rounds are accurate and flatter shooting as long as they are properly stabilized. Hoever once they become destabilized they become a "sail" and deviate more than a slow-heavy round.
I don't know if I'm the only one complaining about this, but if you're even having a hard time seeing a white target and guessing at some points, then you might as well let it go.
Yeah I would abandon the idea of that shot entirely. Unless I knew exactly way in looking at and where my bullet will go after that.
I think it was more to prove a point than to say that it was ok to shoot a deer in those specific conditions. He did specifically say that "IF you could see the vital zone" you could kill it. I think he just wanted to demonstrate a drastic version of what happens when you hit brush.
"HEY! LOOKIT THAT THUR PRIVET HEDGE!" Eric you're awesome haha. Great video. I definitely look forward to more brush testing. 458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, .357 Mag, and hell I'd even like to see how common handgun calibers like 9x19, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 10mm do against brush.
I was zeroing my .50 Beowulf a couple of weeks ago and the first round missed the target passing thru an 8" tree and lodging deep in another tree. I say the Beowulf definitely qualifies as a brush gun. By the way that was Alexander arms 335 grain FMJ at about 30 yards.
Great experiment! Thanks for giving me even more confidence in my Marlin Lever action .35!
Great old gun my father has hunted with his for 60 years it drops everything it hits and is very accurate within 200 yards
I have had it for years, and have never hunted with it. My 30/30 has always been my goto deer rifle, but recently I passed the 30/30 down to my son. I plan to start using the .35 as my primary deer rifle.
Yeah take it out to the range and get that scope sighted in your gonna love it I use a 3030 myself but my dad let me use the old 35 once and I loved it's knock down power even though I ruined a nice trophy by taking the top of a bucks head off
That’s why I love old school lever/bolt action rounds
Well that really make me feel good about the 336 my dad left me when he passed , awsome video man . Thank you
This is one of the best videos I have seen in a long time. Very original, interesting and useful. Great job sir!
K sorry to point this out but you are completely wrong lol "Brush gun" is an informal umbrella term used to refer to any large-caliber, lever-action hunting carbine. The name refers to the fact that these carbines are designed to be handled easily in brush or in any tight spaces where a long-barreled rifle would be unwieldy or impractical. So it just means they are small light and you can carry them through thick brush more easily then a larger bolt action rifle that has a scope that will get caught in twigs and branches as your trucking your way through thick brush. and doesn't matter what firearm your using to shoot through brush or shrubs bushes what ever with it will always have the same effect, bullet trajectory heads off course immediately. Highly don't recommend taking a shot at anything through the brush as your gonna just wound the animal and put yourself in a very dangerous situation. thank you all that's my piece, Sincerely Killuminati.
Just stumbled onto this six year old video; and I had to watch it. Like another viewer I had always thought a brush gun was a short, maneuverable rifle that a hunter doesn’t mind dinging the finish on. In January 2023 on a day with bright light and high contrast I was hunting from a tree stand with a .308 and a 3-something scope. For longer than twenty minutes a whitetail bounded to and fro through laurel at about forty-five yards; and was blowing at me the whole time. One of my most interesting deer hunting encounters; and I couldn’t clearly see the deer to get off a shot. This was partly due to the intense sunlight and the subpar and overpowered scope. Usually I carry a 1-4 or 1.5-6 scoped long-gun; and they’re good glass. That experience stuck in my craw; and it seems like every year I have one of those educational hunting moments. I daily contemplate what I’ll take back to that area; and now I may have something new in mind. Thanks for the video!
you forgot the best most popular brush gun of all the 12 gauge ether slug or sabot i do at least 75% of my deer hunting with my Remington 870