Children of Dune (2003) Retrospective/Review - Dune Retrospective, Part 3
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
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In 1984 the first attempt at bringing Frank Herbert’s epic science fiction novel Dune was met with box office and critical failure. Although the film accrued a cult fanbase over time, the book’s reputation as “unfilmable” endured. That is until the turn of the millennium when Dune was brought to the small screen in the form of the Sci-Fi Channel Miniseries, Frank Herbert’s Dune.
Though far from universally acclaimed, the miniseries was a ratings hit, ushering in an era of other successful miniseries for the cable channel, including a sequel: Children of Dune.
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00:00 Sponsor
01:11 Intro
01:53 Development
02:36 Casting
04:00 Production
05:12 Children of Dune (2003)
11:55 Release & Reception
12:56 Legacy
15:03 Outro
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What I love with all of the versions of Dune is that the people making them cared about Dune and tried to do their best. I love all of them for that.
Facts.
Well said. I admire all the adaptations - all unique in their own ways.
I loved Mcavoy's portrayal and that this one of his early roles before making it big. People may know him most for being Professor X but he'll always be Leto II to me.
I totally agree !
I genuinely hope that, if Denis Villeneuve's adaptation gets to "God Emperor", they recast McAvoy so he plays Leto again. Obviously, he's way too old to play the young version of the character again, but he would be perfect as the God Emperor.
@@XanderVJ DV has said he won't go that far as it's way too trippy. Fair enough. It is.
@@XanderVJ Oh yeah big time!
I don't know if someone will pick up the pace by God Emperor but having him as ThE wOrM would be exceptional indeed!
If Villaneuve ever gets there with his series, a then much older McAvoy should be cast again as a MUCH older Leto II in God Emperor of Dune. It would be a very good nod.
Even just hearing the few clips of Brian Tyler's score used in this video brings me so much joy. Such an epic soundtrack!
The bells! THE BELLS!!! ❤
I think this miniseries actually explains the Golden Path very well. I loved the books but I didn't really "get" Leto's actions until I watched the series.
Same for me
The Messiah episode of this miniseries is the only time in any Dune adaptation that Paul and Chani actually felt like they had a real relationship. It's still the best of the Dune adaptations IMHO, I can't rate Dune 2021 ahead of it when we still havent seen the second half of it yet.
There is one scene in this miniseries that always stuck with me. It's when Paul discovers what Leto has done to himself with the sand trout during a conversation in the desert. McAvoy's performance really stood out and it's no wonder he went on to have a successful career. He was an obvious talent.
I share that memory. The scene beautifully encapsulates the true nature of the Dune story: it's at heart a Greek tragedy, not a hero's journey, not the tale of an anti-hero.
And like the original Greek myth of the Atreides (first "adapted", for the stage) by classical Greek playwrights, this particular "curse of the gods" (in a world devoid of them) alsoextends over multiple generations.
It was the impact of Children of Dune upon me that made me buy both series on DVD. I found the one major difference between the novels and the mini-series, especially Children of Dune, was that the TV series affected me emotionally. It drew me in and broke my heart in some of the tragic scenes. The novels, with all the subterfuge and plots within plots, becomes an intellectual challenge but the TV series brings out the emotional resonances. I loved Children of Dune and, although I missed Saskia Reeves as Lady Jessica, James McAvoy and Jessica Brooks more than made up for her absence.
Great review, thank you.
Love this miniseries, I feel it it still the best adaption of anything Dune to film, including the recent 2021 film (which is still good). The soundtrack especially is one of the best ever created.
Totally agree...the new film is really good, but the Dune story is so much more about intrigue and politics, rather than action packed visually stunning set pieces (and both mini series captured these complex plots/characters so well, with a minimum of action, and relatively low budget visuals)....but, sadly, today's new average 'super hero' movie goer (since every second movie is a comicbook film, these days) needs all this flash and excitement to keep their interest.
I am still in love with the scene where Leto and Ganima descend the steps in the throne room. Him in his golden path scales and ratty pants and she in her elaborate dress. Also, the sheer CHEMISTRY those two actors managed to generate.... (it's not very sibling appropriate :D, but it's great for sci-fi-space-opera-magical-preborn-golden-path-siblings, I mean it's exactly like they are the ones getting married, that scene where they meet up again...)
They do get married in the book lmao
I noticed that John Harrison has an Executive Producer credit on Villeneuve’s movie so there is some continuity there between versions. Thanks for this video.
Alia was played so well. Actress was stunning too me. Lol. Julie Cox will always be my Irulan her potrayal of love for the twins was palpable. Alice K can read a phone book and i will be front row. Susan Sarandon is always a winner and she chews the scenery in a wonderful way.
Brian Tyler's score was so amazing... still gives me chills
Composer of The Super Mario Bros Movie 🎥 😊.
Underrated composer 🔥🔥🔥🔥
"I want my brother." - Alia's final (callback) line as she dies, was so well performed that it never fails to pull a tear out of me!
And yeah, there are moments in the miniseries that (to me) felt like I was watching a (well financed) stage play. But that really didn't ruin it for me.
I thought this was a large improvement over the original and am very sorry we didn’t see God Emperor.
I agreed with the aging up of Leto and Ghanima as it made the story more accessible for those not invested in the books.
God Emperor is the most preachy book of them all. Putting it to screen on its own would be terrible.
I really like the miniseries. Glad to know I'm not alone
Summer cable tv mini-series have a certain appeal, especially if they’re shown infrequently enough to be a special event.
Streaming has definitely taken away much of the anticipation and communal experience of critically acclaimed television.
@@chrisbullard5901 I couldn't speak on that because I missed this stuff came out and pirated it years later.
@@gabsrants , it was something special in the 90s and early 2000s. Spielberg’s “Taken” was also a fun watch.
If you want to see how completely crazy and impressive some of those mini-series became, check out Patrick Stewart in “King of Texas” (literally Stewart playing a Cowboy / John Dutton “Yellowstone” version of King Lear).
Trying to film God Emperor of Dune would be like like the old BBC mini-series I, Claudius with special guests Jabba the Hutt and The Multiple Momoa's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
Adapting God Emperor is quite a hill to climb, but completes Leto II’s journey. When I watched this I was wondering how much of Messiah was going to be cut out. When the ScyFy shows aired I had just finished reading the last of the Original series. The first two books are Maud’dib’s story, the next two are Leto II’s, the last two are Duncan Idaho’s.
_God Emperor of Dune_ was my favorite, and had a lot more to say to me. But I suspect they were put-off by the words in the titles "Messiah" and "God-Emperor."
“The Saga of Dune, is far from over”
I remember really liking this miniseries when I watched it all those years ago.
I really enjoyed the TV adaptaion of Children of Dune, everything about it, it had a great musical score to compliment it, and the acting was a cut above the previous Dune intro to the series. The changes aside, this was the first time a Dune series had been atempted, and was one of the first times a sci fi series held any value for myself!
I still listen to the soundtrack to this. It's amongst my favourite soundtracks ever. Incredibly epic. Years later I also loved the Thor Dark World soundtrack which sounded a bit similar and I realised it was also by the same composer.
I rewatched Children Of Dune again recently having not seen it in years, and though the TV budget is obvious and the CGI hasn't aged that well, the adaptation and performances are great. The actress portraying Alia was particularly amazing, beautiful but also unhinged in equal measure, such a great performance.
I forgot how much I loved the main theme for the mini series. It's so good.
Loved that adaptation. I saw it before I read the books which make it even better as you're trapped with Paul in his foresight. You know what comes next, and you know this is the best future we can hope for. As far as he knows. Unhinged Alia is great, but so is unhinged Paul. And James McAvoy's "We go forward, we go back" has been stuck in my head for years.
I thought both Dune and Children of Dune were great back then. They stuck with me...the characters and actors and the music. I really love the 1984 movie and its still my favorite.Saw it as a teenager.
I still think Lynches Dune is far more interesting and characterful than all other incarnations. Villeneuves Dune is made with an obvious enjoyment of Lynch but fails to inform the audience of so much pertinent information. I'm amazed any newcomers to the franchise can follow why anyone should care about any of the characters or their motivations, they barely exist.
I have crazy respect for these mini-series. I always say that, while both the original "Dune" and "Children of Dune" are severely limited by their limited resources, their heart is definitely in the right place, and the passion for the source material shines through. And the massive improvement from one series to the next is more proof of how much everyone was on the same page, and understood the assignment perfectly. Even if Denis Villeneuve's adaption gets to cover "Messiah" and "Children", and ends up surpassing the TV version, I will never think less of it because of it. I will always remain grateful that we had such an imperfect, but beautiful gem.
Villeneuve put out polished turds in both parts. He gobbled a ton of funds just to relay on cgi and sounds. Except a few, worst Dune actors ever, mediocre and below, except ol' Christopher Walken who's way above their league. I frankly don't know what he's doing there, with the diletants, maybe went senile or out of money. Momoa never had a better performance than "See", i wouldn't had him as Duncan if he paid me. Sure, he ain't the worst ever Duncan, but close by.
I was 17 when this came out and had such a huge crush on Daniela Amavia.
I was quite familiar with the 1985 film and had read the first 2 books a year or 2 earlier. This miniseries was the highlight of Sci-fi Channel.
Children of Dune was also my favourite of the book series. Maybe Children of Dune is an easier story to adapt to film than Dune itself.
On a related note discussed in video - I'm not sure God-Emperor of Dune is translatable to film, maybe someone one day will prove me wrong but it seems too big to ever adapt into a coherent film.
Children of Dune is frankly, perhaps the least complex story when it comes to major plot actions. There's a LOT going on in terms of internal discourse for each character, but when you look at what people are actually *doing* it's largely the twins running around doing nothing until an assassination attempt via tiger, them escaping that and separating with Leto becoming a worm animorph and Ghanima sneaking back into the city while their villainous Aunt cackles in the background talking to herself. Then they all meet up at the end and Leto crowns himself God Emperor because he's just so cool (and immune to bullets by that point). The End.
8:20 -- RE: Paul Atreides as Dictator; That is literally True and yet there is a catch because of Paul's privileged position as the Kwisatz Haderach. With prescience he's locked onto a Golden Path and the rest of the Empire is a weight he has to pull behind him. And thus it wasn't a bad idea at all to include "Dune Messiah" with the sequel miniseries, so that Paul's arc can be properly resolved after he's paid a penance in the Fremen fashion.
I'd also like to state that I surely hope the big-screen "Dune" reboot will have more than 2 parts. I've no idea if that production also optioned the entirety of the novel series, but they surely cast Duncan Idaho with an eye towards star power.
My favorite version of Dune is the Spice Driver cut of the 80's movie. That's a fan edit that can be watched on UA-cam. The editor added deleted scenes and removed some things that were part of the theatrical release.
I would love to see Denis Villeneuve do the rest of the books in the Dune saga, his vision for Dune is astounding to say the least.
if he sees a therapist so it'll have a least a remotely human(e) touch.
hell no, his casting crew is the worst of all
Fun fact, but Inama Nushif is actually in the Dune Encyclopedia thought the meaning is changed and some words are different from the now non canon Dune Encyclopedia, an in universe document that dove really deep into the setting and lore. The song actually has a translation in there and it is haunting and beautiful to listen to it with the new understanding.
The two things (one pro and one con) that stood out for me with this sequel was the aforementioned birth and assassination sequence (the music was mesmerizing) and the poor use of Stilgar during the first episode. How many times did Stilgar say, "Let me have his water!"?
Short, sweet and fair. Although I liked the miniseries and saw the production improvements, I felt there was a gap in the pacing. Terrific casting. Insidious is a perfect word for McNeice' Baron. I felt that Alec Newman transitioned very effectively from a boy to a man. I felt that his, and MacLaclan's captured an element that, though not true to the book, I liked. Though I have just called him a boy, Newman and MacLaclan felt like young men who were educated, yet because of their role as heir, had limited experience with the world which held them back and kept them in their place. Although another throne room ending, the acting performances were very strong. At moments you despised Alia and at other times you had great sympathy for her. Though the capture of the worm was pointless in terms of this episode, it also showed that Corrino had contacts, resources and power.
I doubt anyone will make God Emperor of Dune. They would have to cut out so much of the book, which consists of Leto sitting on his Royal Cart, either thinking to himself, congratulating himself for being so smart and pitying himself because nobody appreciates how smart he is and how much he sacrificed for them.
It's a shame. The book opened on a hell of a terrific chase scene, and then it was snooze time.
I'll tell you why there was no sequel. PJ Moriaty.
He is so bad that it's an exemplar of the term "acted off the screen" as he surely is in every scene. Seeing him robotically deliver lines in every worst way possible next to Alice Krige doing her usual solid work should be taught in all acting schools and seen by every casting agent around the world.
The problem with the next books is that the plot goes off the rails, particularly 4 and 5. 4 requires a full animatronic suit or other fx for one of the main characters, and honestly idk if there's enough plot there for a 3 hour series - after all Billy and Mandy adapted the central bits into 20 minutes. Most of the book is Leto talking. And Heretics has content that wouldn't fly outside of HBO. Chapterhouse is more adaptable but it requires to skip thousands of years forward AND it doesn't have an ending...
Speaking of which, what sacrifices to shai hulud do i have to make for you to cover the Billy and Mandy episode? It's super short and would do great on Halloween, wink wink
The soundtrack is just mind blowing
In fairness, if they did continue, the next chapter would be God Emperor of Dune: the book that people either revere as a thought-provoking epilogue to the trilogy, or the reason they stopped reading the series. it may have been best that they quit while they were ahead
I just wished that they had got to God Emperor, It's my favourite out of them all, but sadly, I don't think anyone will ever put that to screen...ever.
Bryan Tylers Children of Dune score is one of Cinema's greatest under appreciated scores ever made.
And I absolutley loved this cast. Alice Krieg did a great job recasting Saskia Reeves as Lady Jessica and Ian McNiece's Baron Harrkonnen was perfectly cast.
Alec Newman had big shows to fill as even though the film Dune was a box office failure, Kyle Mclaughlin was a Great Paul. Newman does a great job again. But Juli Cox, damn, she's my Irulan, Not sure who's cast for Dennis Villeneuve's Dune Irulan,. But Cox was gorgeous and perfect!. James Macavoy was great at Leto III and Daniela Amavia as Alia does a superb jor going from supportive sister to showing her degradation of her mental state going. Portrayed her excellent.
As you can tell I have a lot of fondness for Not just Children of Dune but also Syfy's Frank Herbert's Dune.
I'm a big Dune fan and at this point I just say give Villeneuve the keys to the whole damn franchise and let him do the eon spanning series right upto Chapterhouse Dune.
OMG - that music is amazing, so sad and hopeful at the same time
I was inspired to watch this again recently; it's got an undeniable charm despite the hammy acting, plodding dialogue and low-budget CGI.
The switch from a focus on Paul in episode 1 to Leto & Ghanima in the latter two episodes is jarring, but an inevitable consequence of covering two books in one mini series.
For a casual viewer, the stories are a bit less engaging than the classic revenge tale of the original Dune. Paul and Leto are apparently troubled by the long-term fate of humanity, but most of the plot actually revolves around small-scale palace intrigues by marginal and obscure characters. There's no clear antagonist who conveys a clear sense of threat.
Overall though, for all its faults i quite enjoyed it. The cast and production team deserve credit for trying to bring dense and challenging science fiction to life on the small screen.
i really liked this miniseries. for more than the original. It fellt so much more immersive.
Your retrospectives are the best. Thanks bro.
The main gripe I have with the changes that Dune 2021 has made is that it often cheapens or weakens what I think are crucial aspects of the world. Having Paul and Jamis fight in full still suits then have the whole party walk into the desert in full sunlight cheapens the Fremen and how their adamant culture has shaped them for the future fight. Just blasting off lasers at a moving ornithoper in a city under attack where a stray shield sends the whole place up begs the question of well, why not more of those things. And the loss of Liet Kynes as a useful character and teacher for Paul all seem to say that the world isn't important anymore. They're changes that feel careless.
Another Great Retrospective by RJC!!!
Awsome retrospective, and I also can barely wait for Dune Part 2. However, the more I think about Villeneuve's Part 1 the more issues I have. Mainly in the portrayals of Paul and Jessica. None of his intelligence nor her iron self-control are evident. That the narrative shows Paul needing basics explained instead of deducing the true heart of the matter himself is just wrong.
Because Villeneuve is jack, gobbled huge funds, gave back polished turds
Great retrospective as always
This mini series has one of my favorite soundtracks. Brian Tyler at his best!
I love this series, and when I accidentally found the soundtrack, I bought it just for that song.
I'm just hoping that some adaptation will finally progress far enough to get to the later books where the real weird sh*t is starting to happen.
Chapterhouse will be a joint production with PornHub
Awesome work as always thank you for your work.
I'd love to see McAvoy playing Leto II the great tyrant. It would be very interesting for sure...
Thank you for these! I agree with another who said these have been undeserved. I loved Dune 1 for its boldness and imagination, but with 'Children of Dune' the performances and production design were elevated to such a degree that I will forever forgive them for the desert theater backdrops.
For the algorithm.... May your Spice Flow, RJC! ❤ 🖖🏾🌍🪱
You know what, I have to say as much as I have long been one of those "The Book was better" and "It's not true to the source material" that I was partially wrong. Yes the Book might have been better, maybe, that really however doesn't invalidate the Adaptation. The "True to Source Material" is something recent Hollywood remakes have made me understand differently. The Arnold Schwarzenegger Total Recall was a very good 90's B-Movie, and the Remake was a much more faithful adaptation of the source material; however I really don't think it's all that great of a movie.
There will never be a Movie Adaptation of a Book that will be liked by everyone.
I think that what we really need is for movies to be able to be more open about what they are: A Biased on, An adaptation of, A re-imagining or even a translative imagining of. So that we the audience knows what we're going to be getting, such that when the 100% pure and accurate bla bla bla Watcher and Reviewer leaves their "scathing" review of the "utter trash" of a film; everyone will know that they chose to ignore what the film was saying.
For a $20 million budget this well adapted sequel was wonderful! The casting was excellent and Alice Krige was spectacular as Lady Jessica and the assassination scene for me makes the whole series!
There are many who nitpick this version, but for its budget I feel it went far and away beyond the 1984 Dune!
You say the og was the only one to become a cult classic, but the dune sequels were mine!
In an age where retellings of the same, trope filled stories, these sequels, even back then, litterally evolved the themes presented.
Twisting the Chosen One and Natural Leader into an opposing force, decades before whatever attempt Hollywood has been trying to pull off, and then ignoring, in favour of freaking comedy!!
I really appreciate you doing this, because honestly, I think that these miniseries, particularly the second one, have been undeservedly forgotten. Particularly in the wake of Villeneuve’s film, which, if I’m honest, I do not understand the love for. I’m not saying that it’s a bad film. Nor am I saying that the miniseries were the greatest of all possible versions. I’m just saying that between Dune and Blade Runner, 2049, Villeneuve’s style just doesn’t speak to me personally.
I am honestly baffled by the praise Villeneuve gets. I haven't liked anything he's done. his version of Dune is completely incompetent.
@@dansmith3085 I personally wouldn’t say “incompetent.” I would say that it is overlong, very slow, simultaneously bloated and empty, visually uninteresting, and anticlimactic. I had the same complaints with Blade Runner 2: Blade Walker. I guess it’s a stylistic choice - I think he wants his movies to be like this - and a lot of people apparently really like them. I personally just don’t get it. But I’m willing to accept that just like there’s some music that I just *DO NOT* get the appeal of, there’s some aspect of his movies that I’m just completely deaf to.
It’ll be interesting to see how they hold up over time. Will people still like them 10 or 20 years from now, or will they be semi-forgotten oddities from a weird age in cinema?
@@mahatmarandy5977 To me those things add up to incompetent, but whatever. I really only checked his films out because they were connected to things I liked in the past.
Truthfully, I barely watch TV or movies anymore.
@@dansmith3085 when I hear “Incompetent,” I think of movies like “Plan 9 from Outer Space” or “Creation of the Humanoids.” Movies where the people making them had no clue what they were doing. With Dune, the dude knew exactly what he was doing and did exactly what he wanted. I just really didn’t like it
It doesn't speak to you because he relies on CGI and tech stuff to present his "grandiose scenery" just as Lynch did on elements of style, while completely disconsidering the ACTING element. Not that in this low budget series some of the actors were titans while in their productions(especially Villeneuve) they are diletants mostly and their characters chopped to bits.
I think it's obvious why God Emperor was never adapted, but I still really wish someone, ANYONE, would give it a shot!
Excellent retrospective
Totally agree. I really didn't care for the first Dune mini at all, so I was genuinely impressed when this one was so good.
Otherwise, I tend to think it was the network that killed any further sequels. This came out in 2003, the same year they infamously cancelled Farscape out of nowhere and started pivoting away from pure sci-fi programming. Because, as you mentioned in the review, a lot of time was spent in Children on the subplot with House Corrino stealing the sandworm. Why include that unless Harrison was already looking towards adapting God Emperor?
I already saw these series. But this video made me want to watch them again.
If all goes well and Dune Messiah gets made by Villenueve, and is a hit, then I say Robert Eggers should do the big screen adaptation of Children of Dune. Him or David Lowry
I liked the fact that the viewer was hit by the reality of Paul's jihad right from the get-go. As if to say, "No! It's not a space epic! It's a Tragedy!"
If nothing else the OST for the series is so damn good!
I never watched the second mini series but after watching your video I'm going to give it a watch 👍
If they thought people couldn't follow Children, they wouldn't stand a chance with God Emperor. It takes a lot more thought to understand than a couple of hours of TV can give.
Aw man, a cult classic I loved this sereis.
I remember watching the first miniseries when it aired and loving every minute of it. I also remember watching Children of Dune as it aired and being utterly confused and befuddled by it. I didn't know who any of the characters were or why they were important and the story didn't make any damned sense. I remember losing interest after the first episode. Now I wonder if it was because I hadn't seen the first miniseries recently enough to remember it or whether the re-castings caught me off guard. Maybe I should give it another go.
The soundtrack is one of the best ever produced.
Thank you, great show
The miniseries is, by far, the definitive adaptation of Dune. Dunc doesn't even come close.
The only thing I didn't like about the second miniseries was the recasting of Lady Jessica. It's probably one of those unfortunate things for some actors to be so associated with an iconic role they previously played. But all I could think of was "Borg Queen" every time I saw Jessica. It's a bit of that and me really thinking the original actress was perfect.
I’m very annoyed that after weeks of looking for, buying, and waiting for my copy.. it was made in Australia.. and for some reason… has no subtitles… none at all.. very irritating… great video 😎
This guy forgets that Irulan has a way greater role in the next books and that the mini-series was intended for more. So yeah, she uncovered informations already known to the viewer but that helps establish her character. I can't see why sticking to the book is a reason do underrate the series. No production raised to the overal quality of this 2000 series, despite way larger funds and better special effects. Because acting matters, because this had acting titans.
While Berkoff is a great actor and has done a number of great rolls, I think his Stilgar pulled a poor second to Uwe Ochensknecht, but I'm afraid I have to violently disagree with you about Susan Sarandon. She was a real disaster...a caricature of a royal--an American's visions of a of a royal . She was TERRIBLE as the Princess Wensicia...no regal bearing, she more resembled a cow plodding down a path or a hooker strutting her wares than a royal princess, especially when you compare her deportment with that of Alice Kriege who was stellar.
Over all I have to agree, this was even better than the first series.
I think you’re on point about the quality of Children of Dune. I remember thinking it looked way better. Time for a rewatch.
If they ever adapt the fourth book, God Emperor of Dune, I would love to see James McAvoy reprise his role as Leto the Second but as the older and tyrannical God Emperor.
If Dune was unfilmable God Emperor is waaay less so. A philosophical treatise on how Frank saw the world would be far harder to watch without losing the books direction.
The next Scifi Dune Series was going to be a direct sequel following Duncan(s) disrupting Harkonnen and Corrino plots around the universe.
I think a big part of the reason why another miniseries was never made is because the story becomes a lot less of a traditional 'good guys fighting bad guys' type story in the latter books. 4 is already kind of weird because it jumps a few thousand years forward in time and focuses on Leto II as the god-emperor who thanks to his long life and position of power isn't really participating in the story anymore as much as the story kind of happens around him. Then books 5 and 6 go fairly off the rails with the whole Honored Matres and their war against the Bene Geserit, etc. That stuff is just a lot less amenable to film or even longer-form TV.
That said, I would love to see Denis Villeneuve do Dune Messiah and Children of Dune after part 2.
Love Dune mini. Alia chick was very strange to me. She would throw me out of the story.
30+ years of reading sci go when this came out.Talking dolphins, people riding dragons with a telepathic bond (way before GOT), spaceships that are controlled by human brains. Plenty of strange and more.
But when Leto dives into the sand was ridiculous. I felt the same with the book as well. Love Mac Avoy.
I have no idea how Denis is going to top "Inama Nushif"... that was amazing. Maybe they should just license the song..! 🤷🏿♂️🙏🏾🤣
Krige remains my favourite Jessica
There are things the mini series despite its limited resources managed to do that neither the 84 and 21 Dune managed to include, such as the banquet setting up the factions on Arrakis and the scheming and duplicity of the houses and power blocs and the Thufir hunt for the traitor and his suspicions of lady Jessica's Harkkonen bloodline blinding him to it being Yueh.
The means taken to bring about the fall of house Atreides is almost inconsequential in Villeneuve's Dune. Fair enough for his excellent visual storytelling, but as much criticism as the Lynch Dune gets for over exposition, it did a far better job with the limited runtime although overstuffed, the mini series is the closest to conveying the magnitude of the the shift in power and what it took to make that happen.
I do think the sequel is better than the original movie! It has the best hauntingly beautiful soundtrack.
i actually just watched the miniseries... complicated thoughts...
i think why i didn't enjoy it as much as the dune miniseries is mostly related to the story it tells: i have not read the sequels, only the first book, and somehow the continuation of the story though having interesting elements, fails to tell a narrative of the scale that the first miniseries told.
excluding that, children of dune somehow got rid of everything i found unique and cool about dune 2000, the sets and the costumes, while cheep looking, had such a character about them, each group/category of people had their own way of dressing, each location had distinct architecture and color pallet, the lighting was theatrical and the actors did more interesting things on screen that were close to the lore established in the books, such as fremen attacking from belos the sand, even the sponge-like tumbleweed plants they shook for light were nowhere to be seen, even though it added so much to make this adaptation stand out from others.
in general however, the events and major players in this story are far weaker than those of dune: house corino drags down the plot of this mini series like a brick, with nothing clever or interesting offered except for stealing a worm which doesn't go anywhere, alia is the worst thing about this miniseries period with her impulsive decisions carrying the story in wild directions yet seemingly they're doing by the end just as badly as they were in the beginning, jessica has more of the vibe of the mother from carrie than THE lady jessica the badass woman she was, now being very uncharacteristically cold and distant, susan sarandon is almost out of a totally different movie, the face dancers and the regeneration of humans are not only never established well to the audience but are as quickly forgotten about as they are introduced, same with the golden path, the preborns, the ritual of the abomination, nothing is clear especially to people who are just now getting into dune, the tribe that 'jessica and duke leto have heard was dangerous so they never explored it' was such a slap in the face, especially when we're waiting for three hours to get to this cave and once we're there it is not established who they are, why they're doing what they're doing and are never mentioned again, it's just nuts. suddenly a random attack, suddenly a random marriage, suddenly a random bombing of another siech, here's an out of nowhere little person talking in riddles, here's an out if nowhere soul of baron harkonen taking over alia's mind, and just every major plot important moment feels like a wet fart because it is either hard to follow or is happening by completely arbitrary reason and nobody knows what reason it serves.
actually that is probably why i feel like it is weaker than dune, because in dune the overall story is very simple: atrades vs harkonen, every major decision throughout the series is strategically employed for this only purpose, to feed this conflict, and in the end we've accomplished the conclusion of it. in children of dune the story goes in wildly different directions, and the overall throughline of 'we must save the desert' is not really accomplished in the end, nor do any of the character arcs funnel into this plotline.
the redeemable features for me are, of course, paul and chani, their love for each other is so precious and cute, the subplot where chani was drugged was very intriguing, her tragic death and paul becoming this recluse who wants nothing to do with his old self is actually my favorite character development throughout, his dialogue with leto and gurney being my favorite scenes of the entire miniseries. the twins are carrying parts 2 and 3, not saying as a con, they are brilliant, how they play off of each other, their bond and love is oozing off of the screen, and leto becoming a desert creature (though completely bizarre and unestablished in the universe and seems like totally unnecessary) is interesting and at least captivating to watch. besides that... irulan is cool and i love the use of bene gesserit sign language... the grassy dream sequence where worms go extinct is cool to see... not much more unfortunately, which is a shame because i really wanted to know how it all develops and practically all legacy characters getting murdered, one heir roaming the desert wishing for death and another left to govern the rest of the disheveled empire sounds like a real bad ending. at least we have lynch's 3 hour fan edit. now that i can never get bored of watching.
What are you talking about, lol? House Corrino is the top dog, clever enough to make the two more energic dogs fight each other but after it turns sideways and they lose, their role is minimal in the story until God Emperor book. Yes, Children's story is less complicated than the first, but is only a bridge to another mountain, God Emperor....Read the goddamn books , the series is VERY close to them! Alia is one of the best things in the mini series, Daniela Amavia is absolutely nailing it, her mind is degrading in the end, obviously, but in her first years of ruling she takes decisions that will impact over centuries. The face dancers and cloning was uncovered wayyy later in the books because it was Tleilaxu's most protected secrets. And yes, second Jessica(Alice Krige) is closer to the character because she was a very disciplined , controlled woman who lost the love of her life, literally trained to fake and controll emotions, not a loving mother figure. She also will slowly turn back to her sisterhood. Ofc "nothing is clear especially to people who are just now getting into dune" because is a huge complex universe! Your expectations to understand it all at once are simply infantile! Some parts only add up much later. You nailed it here, "here's an out if nowhere soul of baron harkonen taking over alia's mind" and that's one of the MAJOR errors of the books themselves, the Baron wasn't a female, and Alia shouldn't have HIS memories as only Paul and Leto2 were able to look into the male side. There's few major flaws in the books nobody seems to notice or talk about, like the obsolete/archaic design of the 'thopters. The tribe of Sietch Tabr survives in the story for thousands of years, read the damn books... The story is only hard to follow if your mind takes breaks and/or you're unable to follow/understand what you see. "in dune the overall story is very simple: atrades vs harkonen"----uhm, no, that's only a small part of it, you clearly need someone to explain things slowly. Channi was slowly poisoned so she'll not be able to give birth, not drugged, that's why she dies due to birth complications after taking a Spice overdose as treatment so she can have children. And you completely missed WHY Leto became a hybrid! He sacrificed his life, as a Mesiah, to complete what his father did not have the guts to do, slowly changing himself into a beast and losing his human nature, to be able to lead the humans out of several self triggered extinction events on the Golden Path of survival, by gaining a much longer life time. His father Paul seen the same Golden Path but he wasn't strong enough in the end and that sacrificial transformation fell upon Leto2. " the grassy dream sequence where worms go extinct is cool to see... not much more unfortunately, which is a shame because i really wanted to know how it all develops"--READ THE BOOKS, is all explained later, that worm dead in grass is just a glimpse of what happens thousands of years later.
I feel this was better than the 2000 one
I genuinely enjoyed the SciFi miniseries - both of them. Just one thing that struck me wrong -- Irulan is the ELDEST daughter - Wensicia isn't even the next daughter, she's the third one. But Susan Sarandon? Yeah, she did a nice job, but she's more than old enough to be Julie Cox's mother. That still throws me out of the story...
That's because they didn't stick to the story here
Nice!
even with the new movies i think the mini series is still the best adaptation even with some mid performances and miscasts mostly by the more famous at the time people overall it carried ideas of the story beautifully even if the special effects feels like a fmv movie from a video game
As for a third Dune Mini-Series not showing up, and why I think in these new adaptations we may never get past Children again if it goes that far,
I mean, sure people have been saying Dune is unfilmable for a very long time and it's been proven untrue. But if anything is unfilmable it might just be God Emperor of Dune.
Although, who's to say. High-concept fantasy is a lot more mainstream now than it ever was before. But, God Emperor takes that and mixes it with the abstract philosophy of the author, it might be still too out there to make and generate the type of profit a major studio would expect. We see Leto II transcend his father and become a super human at the end of Children of Dune
And then skip 3000 years and he's a repulsive, almost omnipotent...literal worm. And there's a lot less action for a studio to latch onto. At best a studio would see a return from people who are already invested, but realistically most people would probably be really confused. I'm saying this as someone who thinks God Emperor is probably the best outside the first book. I would love to be proven wrong, but I could also see it go really outside of the original intention of the book to make it something general audiences might digest a little easier, failing at that, and it not really working for anyone. If a brave and creative director who loves the source material steps up and does it I would be all for it though.
Wow it's been 2 years
Member for 2 years, 1 day time for an upgrade warp to perk lvl 3.
Merci.
Watched both mini series recently after these videos and yes Children is the stronger of the two. Vilneuves effort ultimately left me cold and disappointed; the PJ comparison is certainly valid but his omissions and changes still felt like the LOTR whereas Vilneuves Dune is just another sci fi film.
The soundtrack alone was worth watching this miniseries.
Its weird, but Children of Dune is not one I pull off the shelf to rewatch. I liked it when I watched it, and obviously, I liked it enough to buy the physical media. But for some reason, I never feel compelled to rewatch.
I've got DVDs of both Dune mini-series too. In preparation for the next Villeneuve film, I definitely plan to re-read "Messiah" (and "Children" too) and to rewatch the mash-up "Messiah/Children" mini-series.
I really can't see how you can want to produce/direct a "Messiah" film without also going on to cover "Children". I mean, you can't really show the full tragic arc of Paul's story - or unveil the doubly/trebly tragic story of the multi-generational Greek tragedy that is Dune - unless you do what the mini-series did...
New Sub here Enjoy your videos and like to listen to your explanations.
The sci-fi channel dune adaptation got me into dune back in the day and I still watch them once a year
Yes it looks dated and is cheesy most of the time and I love it
Thanks for your video!