@@skywatcheradept Duncan Idaho is one of the most fascinating characters to me personally. I mean leto the second kind of treats him like a favorite dog that he just refuses to let die.
Because he's not a dog. He's a person, who is being treated as if he's someone else's personal property, and watching how he deals with that as he slowly comes to realize that is the case, is to me an interesting character study. It really is a horrible fate, living the same life as a glorified slave, again and again, coming to realize your own servitude, coming to realize that you are a clone, that the original person you think of as yourself died thousands of years ago. Again and again
It’s still my favorite sequel. It’s so unlike anything I have read to this day. I’d rank them God Emperor, Messiah, Heretics, Children, then Chapterhouse. I found that Heretics feels like the closest sequel to the first book. It’s had more action, less psychological musings, and the world building kicks into overdrive. I really wish we would’ve gotten that last book.
I read all 6 of Frank's books and I was conflicted on my feelings for CoD & GEoD at first. However I've grown to love all 6. I think Heretics & Chapterhouse are underrated. Miles Teg is a bad@$$.
@@hunterkat I disagree. The message from Leto II left for the Bene Gesserit in the future was pretty epic. There is some cool stuff in the books if you are willing to let go of the past.
@@dustinneely I’m allowed to have my own opinion, and my opinion is that the sexual imprinting stuff was ridiculous and I did not like the other group like the Bene Gesserit with their alternate spice, I thought their motivations were hard to read at best- I don’t even remember what they were supposed to be doing, except trying to take over planets with sexual imprinting which as I said is ridiculous. I also don’t know why Duncan Idaho had to be brought back so many times, he should’ve stopped being a character after God Emperor. Miles Teg was the only interesting part of it, and the rest was either tedious or extremely ridiculous. I don’t mind weird, I read and enjoyed Children of Dune and God Emperor. But there’s definitely a limit. I did like the plot line of spice being scarce and trying to recreate Arrakis. I’m not saying they’re irredeemably bad or anything. I just don’t care for them, even with some good elements.
I found Heretics and CH to be really entertaining. You get to learn a lot about the Bene Gesserit. Of all 6 books, my favorite was Children of Dune as the characters and plot lines were amazing.
I think my favorite was Children of Dune, it felt tighter and more precise, it explored a lot of the same themes as the first book but expanded upon to the nth degree. I liked God emperor and appreciate its weirdness but after Children I didnt think it was THAT weird, but I'll say God Emperor was the one I struggled through because it didn't have the same level of suspense that the others had.
I've read all 6. Here's my takeaway with the sequels. Messiah - Slower, but thought provoking. Its also short, so you're not having to deal with nearly 500 pages of ideas. Children - Extremely fascinating. I liked the descriptions of prescience, ancestral memory, the reveals of the golden path, the preacher, all that stuff. God Emperor - I still liked it, especially when it delved into Leto's psychology and sacrifice, and the occational bomb of political statements. It was a bit slower though, and this is probably the furthest I'll go for rereads. Heretics - It was interesting at the beginning, though the story dragged a TON. It wouldve probably been better if it focussed more on Sheeana and ghola Duncan as opposed to the super beings Odrade, Taraza, and Teg. Still, it had its moments, such as the revelation of Leto's message and Teg's awakening. Chapterhouse - I liked this one better than #5 because the Bene Gesserit actually take the Honored Matres more seriously, instead of constantly belittling them (even as they are being destroyed). I also thought the action here was more notable than Heretics (which confused me why people say Heretics has all the action), with the battle plan, and conflict that takes more than a chapter to end. Duncan's escape, as well as Daniel & Marty are cool too. I just wish Frank could've lived to make the 7th book. So overall, a great series, just that its unlikely I'll reread the whole thing in full.
I read the first 3 books around the time the first Denis V film came out. Loved all 3 and have been interested but warned about continuing. I might get 4 and go back through then see how I feel. Thanks for the recommendation
Just read them. It's worth it. I heard the same stuff you prob did, that it's 'out there' and 'weird.' That makes it sound like there's some huge tonal shift something, which there isn't. It's all very cohesive and incredibly interesting.
I personally still really enjoyed Heretics and Chapterhouse, although quite a bit less than books 1-4. I thought Teg was awesome but the main attraction to me was getting a lot more of the bene gesserit which is one of my favorite things about the entire series! Overall, I think stopping after Messiah, Children, or God Emperor are all very reasonable recommendations for people. To me, God Emperor feels like the most complete ending to the story, but it's definitely not something everyone will enjoy.
I loved all six books. Mid way through God Emperor, the Ghola became my favorite character. Hence my name here. My favorite book is Messiah. I like how everyone is suddenly against Paul. All the people plotting to take him down. The four or five conspirators is pretty standard. Because I’m a Howard fan, I bring everything back to Conan. It does remind me of Hour of the Dragon or Phoenix on the Sword. You have your Barbarian King, in this case Paul, who takes the throne by force. Suddenly everyone is plotting against him. Even old friends and the people freed from the previous King or Emperor are against him. I love that Messiah is such a downer. I also liked picking out everything Lucas took for Star Wars. Even into the later books for the prequels. Right down to the Sith.
I was really getting into Herbert's prose, the way he wrote was very evocative. I love books that aren't mysteries per se, but that have a lot of mysteries that slowly unfold and these books are great for that. A true shame he passed before writing many more books in the series. What Brian Herbert did was like watching a great painter's kid doing finger painting, just an absolute waste of time.
Heretics and Chapterhouse are my favorites of the series because I love the Bene Gesserit. Comparing them to the Aes Sedai is how my friend got me to read The Wheel of Time.
I never read past God Emperor myself because it was just getting way too weird and, like you said, not what I had expected. Good to hear that, apparently, I haven't missed much by ignoring the last two.
I have read Dune three times now which felt necessary to fully understand it for me. Dune Messiah i was initially turned off by but im glad i made myself keep going because that ending was perfect! Currently reading Children of Dune and am loving the characters so far! I plan to finish God Emperor next and stop there. In the first two books Alia was definitely my favorite character! Who is yours?
I came to this video thinking “Wow, someone is actually going to defend the books his son wrote, this should be interesting.” Seriously, who says the official sequels suck? God Emperor is dynamite.
I’ll be reading Messiah and children this year. Very excited to continue. I was planning on stopping after that but I’ll probably read God emperor on your recommendation to complete the golden path!
As somebody who likes the world building and geopolitical lore side of dune more than the philosophical insights of Herbert, all of the books after Children are a travesty.
I agree with your take on the first four Dune novels, but also liked 'Heretics of Dune' and 'Chapterhouse Dune' more than you apparently did. I kind of liked the Honored Matres and their inversion of Bene Gesserit disciplines. Alas, 'Chapterhouse Dune' didn't exactly end on a cliffhanger, but it felt woefully... incomplete. I wish Frank Herbert had managed to wrap up the Honored Matres story. I also generally agree that the books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson aren't in the same league as Frank Herbert's original series-- and I haven't read them all-- but I quite liked 'Paul of Dune.' I think 'Paul of Dune' is worth reading between 'Dune' and 'Dune Messiah,' with the understanding that it doesn't live up to either of those novels, because I do think it adds to the overall setting.
I agree with you. Loved the trilogy, liked God Emperor and was super confused with the last two. I tell everyone if they've only seen the movie they might not like the book since the movies were made from the throw away lines in the book. I feel if they do another movie it will be about the Jihad and they'll skim over the rest of the book. What I never saw coming is the guy who is the connecting character, no spoilers, to all the books. That was kind of wild to me. If he is the next one at least people love the actor and would love seeing him some more. The way he'll be portrayed if they stick to the book, considering who it is, might make some people very confused.
1 Dune 2 Chapterhouse 3 Messiah 4 God Emperor 5 Heretics 6 Children Thats my ranking. I think all the different movies, the show, etc have propped up my love for the original. Not sure why children didnt capture me as much, but i finished Chapterhouse a couple months ago and loved it.
As someone who's always wanted to read dune (but has heard that the sequels weren't very good) this video was exactly what I needed. Will be reading at least the first 4 now
Damn that's harsh on the Brian Herbert "sequels". I thought that was what the video was about. I've never heard anyone say the rest of the Frank Herbert series suck. I guess I won't bother with the Brian Herbert books then, most people seem to hate them.
I totally agree. Dune 1 - for every sf fans. Dune 2/3 - for Dune fans. Dune 4/5/6 - for Dune nerds. I personally recommend to stop at the 3rd or 4th book as well.
So I watched this review before I started any of the Dune books, I just re-watched it after finishing God Emperor and it makes so much more sense now and I have to agree with him on just about everything. He said I’m not sure if I’m going to read more after this, but I’m definitely going to reread the series with the knowledge gain from God Emperor and I think that will completely change book one. Just thoughts before I dig back in
Thanks for the tips! 😊👍I'm a fan of "Hero's Journey" stories, so I guess the end of book 1 would be my jumping off point if I ever get around to reading it.
I think the problem is that the things I fell in love with when it came to dune where not necessarily the things that the author was the most interested in, and knowing what happened in the later books actually diminished my enjoyment of the original. I didnt spoil myself on purpose. Like, I figured things would end really poorly for Paul, but I was personally mostly interested in the political intrigue and the societies and cultural institutions. I personally did not find his philosophical discussions as profound as he himself found it. Especially from the perspective of political science. Most of it is very entry level theorizing described with very flowery and self-important language. And the later books seemingly contain more and more of that. I think thats probably why some people say the later books are "bad". They focus shifts/becomes more apparent. I enjoyed Dune Messiah and Children of Dune on an intellectual level, but I wasnt emotionally invested by that point. God emperor dune is kind of the opposite in that I actually was emotionally invested again, but I stopped being intellectually invested as I kind of stopped looking at him as a highly intelligent author, I know that sounds mean but it is what it is.
Dune Messiah was my favorite. I stopped after children of dune because I saw that shit gets weird after that. I could have muscled my way though it but since Frank Herbert died before finishing the series, I chose to stop at children and am satisfied with that
I read Dune for the first time when I was 13 (1983) so I can really relate to a lot of your story. I was really surprised by how much I loved and gobbled up Heretics and Chapterhouse. God Emperor took a few tries. In the end I went back and read the Brian/Anderson Prelude books, which I actually enjoyed, although they pale in comparison to Dune. Then, I just kept going all the way through Chapterhouse. Didn't make it past page 1 of the other Brian Herbert stuff that followed. Have you picked up any other of Frank Herbert's work? I enjoyed Soul Catcher. I'm about to watch Dune 2, and only recently saw Dune 1, and gearing up to read them all again, it's been about 15 years.
I felt depressed at the end of Chapterhouse partly because there wasn't going to ever be any more. It felt like stopping a book with 2 chapters to go. Wouldn't it be amazing if a Ghola of Frank could continue the story.
Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars(Barsoom) series influence all Sci fi after it, especially Star Wars, Flash Gordon,writers like Jack Vance, Jack McDevitt, Asimov, Ruocchio, Greg Bear, E.C Tubb etc, etc.
Thanks for making this! I read Dune before the Part1 came out and loved both the book and the movie. Then i decided earlier this week that i really want to reread Dune and this video convinced me to make reading Dune Messiah a priority as well as to see Part 2. I just got back from the movie and I'm HYPED to read at least the 4 books!🎉🎉
I read Dune many years ago and never got around to the sequels. About 6 years ago, I re-read Dune and then read Messiah and Children but I've had God Emperor sat on my shelf for a few years now but I haven't had the urge to read it yet..... maybe soon
I like Dune Messiah and God Emperor of Dune more than Dune, particularly the latter which is one of my favorite novels. The only Dune sequel that I have some problems with is Children of Dune, which I just feel needs to be tightened up in places, specifically Leto's odyssey. I like how weird stuff gets after the Scattering with the Honored Matres, Futars, Miles Teg, etc (if far future epic SF doesn't occasionally make you uncomfortable, it's not trying very hard imo) and while I would've liked to see where Frank Herbert was going with the story, I've come to see Chapterhouse as a fine ending.
The sequels are dense as far as content, not length. The Golden Path is still something I still don’t completely understand, however, I agree that books 1-3 and 4 as an epilogue are essential. I enjoyed Heretics and am currently on Chapterhouse.
Change is always welcomed Brother! As change is the only permanent which exists. Blake Crouch is one of my favorites too. Haven’t read Lonesome Dove or Sun Eater so you are leading the pack by miles. 😊. God speed. My positive vibes are with Brian. Hope is makes it out hail and hearty. Authors are a precious community who help us dream with eyes open.
I wish Brian Herbert had hired Dean R. Koontz to write the sequel/prequels. Then it would be Dune R. Koontz! and there would be an intelligent dog, like the pug Captain Picard was carrying in the Lynch movie. :)
I think Dune Messiah is the perfect ending for Paul's story, at least. Sure, some things are left unanswered, but as far as the tragedy of it all is concerned, I couldn't be more satisfied with it. I think you can stop at any of the first four books and be okay with it. Books 5 and 6 are interesting, but I found it it very difficult to get through them. I don't think that I will ever bother with the books by Brian Herbert. I am just not interested.
Did Brian Herbert intentionally seek to change the story or destroy the goals Frank originally had for the series, or is it that Brian is just a bad/different writer than Frank Herbert?
I enjoyed Dune. Read it before the movie but I thought the characters were weak. Recently finished Messiah and liked where it went and am interested in reading children but I don't think I'll read it anytime soon. I already know the craziness that happens in the sequels and part of me wants to read God Emperor to see how it all plays out. And yeah I think I'll stop there, especially reading that Herbert wanted Heretics to be the start of a new trilogy and it sadly didn't get concluded by him.
I read all 6 books when I was a teenager as well. I remember struggling with all of them-especially the first 4 books. There is ALOT of philosophy in them that went way over my head at that age (and still does to be honest). I agree with Mike that Dune Messiah and Children of Dune should be read together and I feel are actually 1 whole book. I still enjoyed Heretics and Chapterhouse and even though they are quite different than the other 4 books Frank still wrote them and I attribute the differences to age and time (I think he wrote Chapterhouse about 20 years after Dune). People change in 20 years. They are still good books. I will take exception to Mike's thoughts on Brian's and MJA's prequels and sequels. I enjoy them very much. I don't consider them "bastardizations" of the original. I think they give a more complete story of the Dune Universe. In my opinion they do tend to be a little long-winded but the stories are interesting and still thought-provoking. Albeit not as much so as with Frank's books. I haven't read all of the sequels but what I have I've enjoyed very much. Some might consider them "fan fiction" but I do not. I highly suggest fans of Frank's works to read the prequels and sequels. Sure they're written in a different style (different writers have different styles after all) but they doesn't mean they aren't well-written and a lot of fun to read.
@@mikesbookreviews I'm not sure. To be honest, a few years ago (even before I knew they were remaking "Dune" I reread Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune. I used to have all 6 books but somehow lost Heretics and Chapterhouse. It would be interesting reread those now. As I said in my original comment, Frank wrote those books approximately 20 years after "Dune" so even though there was a lot of the same ideas/themes from the original book he matured as a writer and probably in his thoughts on different subjects so those later books had a different tone to them. Much more mentally digestible in my recollection. By the way, I've also read the "Pandora Sequence" books and you can see inklings of "Dune" in there but they are far inferior (even though they were done after "Dune). They were a slog for me and I almost didn't finish them. Not because dense themes but because of bad writing.
1:10 books from high school are not Worn at all 😂 they seem to be in a really “well care taken” throughout the years! Good job! However I don’t see them close up only at what you display them at and they look great! I prefer the older versions better! Great video! I got the first book! Read some threads and decide I will stop at book 1.
I loved Messiah and God Emperor and to a lesser extent Children of Dune. I agree the Heretics and Chapterhouse are a step down, though I still think they're good. It's too bad we lost Frank Herbert and he was not able to write more. Cheers.
God Emperor is such a good way to end the series, really out there and creative and ties everything up nicely...then he made two more. I remember liking them but they didn't leave much of an impression.
It's strange. I love Messiah, but I've tried to read Children of Dune three different times. It just feels like Frank changed his mind about a lot of things.
I read Dune and Messiah in 2 weeks total. Then I read them both again in less than a week. I was so pumped to get into Children of Dune…and it took me 3 months to finish. There were a couple of interesting threads but I had a hard time connecting with the “main” characters
I think they are all worth reading. Frank Herbert definitely liked women, he had the Bene Gesserits and then later the Fish Talkers female army. There is a lot of odd things in these books but they are enjoyable to read. But if you like Dune, then the next 3 books, Messiah, Children and Emperor are all an essential continuation of that story. I was disappointed in Messiah of Dune, mostly because of what Paul does. And then the Children of Dune I'm disappointed in Jessica because she basically turns her back on everyone. The books by Frank Herberts son Brian are not as bad as some people make them out to be. But they do go off on some wild tangents and the prequels are just really new books that imagines the origins of the Dune universe.
Hey Mike, I tried to read book 2 and I could only do a couple of pages. Too much politics for me. I did read two of the prequel. House Atredides and House Harkkonen
I have read Dune nine times and I love it, but it is my fifth favorite book of the series. The amazing thing about books five and six is that they are truly alien fiction that transport you to a place far from earth better than anything I have ever experienced in any other media.
My personal mixed reference ethos, off the bat, is: DUNE or DUNE not, there is no try! My favorite cinematic analogy is how The Matrix is unbeatable, the One! While the two sequels for the film trilogy are a double feature dive-in concluder! Also your analogy, I think, to the OG Star Wars trilogy, the Prequel trilogy, and then the Disney iteration with its initial potential lost to too many hands and change at the helm in the money machine recipe soup and the undue mis-assigning of their actors as somehow creator/writers responsible for the actions of the characters they play, written for them. Same token, I will not fear the Hyperion book two...would you say Chapterhouse Dune title is a curious yet intriguing a title as Mistborn (Book One): "The FINAL Empire" is? Plus, I do see the 6 Frank Herbert Dune books 📚 as one narrative! And "sequels" being independent but attached, as the qualitatively fanfic expansions by Frank's son & company? Super accurate analogy to ROP, the latter! 🎉 🏜 🏹 🎯!!
I've read all of Frank's sequels and found something to make each worth reading. In fact, the weakest imo, Heretics, has one of my favorite scenes in the entire series, and most of that books faults for me lie in the style, which is the driest of all six books. I've also, unfortunately, read the 2-part Brian & Kevin "conclusion" to the series and refuse to believe those books accurately represent any substantial notes Frank may have left behind. I won't tell people not to read them, or the prequels. That's everyone's personal decision to make. And a lot of Dune fans enjoy them. For me, they were ultimately not rewarding, or insightful, or informative enough to keep at them, and none grace my bookshelves, they are relegated to my overflow boxes.
I read dune when I was 14 as well. Then I reread again when I was 30 . I love dune . I tried to read messiah and was bored out of my mind . I don’t know why but I think I’m happy with Dune being a much more sci-fi version of stat wars . Again Dune was my favorite book from age 14 to 30 something lol.
The six written by Frank are great, the ones written by the 'inheritors' are... variable in quality, and could stand as a separate series. Not as good but if you hadn't read the original they are acceptable. Not great, but acceptable.
As someone who actually used pages from the 'prequel' Dune: House Atreides as toilet paper to express my utter disgust with the quality, I can attest that they aren't even good for that.
Dune is one of my favourite books. I thought Messiah and Children were boring but once the series got into God Emperor I loved it again and Chapterhouse is my favourite of all the books , unpopular opinion I know. The prequels were very very average and just a cash grab imho. I liked the first one with the Butlerian Jihad but they ended up awful and could not finish them.
The atreides are still in the 5th and 6th book. Just their bloodline thousands of years later. Couldn't disagree more about 5 and 6, though. They have a super strong theme, and it's very clear the points Herbert was trying to get across. I think Heretics stands next to the original, at least for me.
Dune Messiah is the true ending for me and it's the perfect ending for Paul. You're mad at him for his bad decisions but also feel bad for him in some ways.
I get the perspective, but feel like at least going thru CoD truly completes Paul's story, simply due to how much insight Leto II gains into his father and his choices/failures. Following into GEoD can get a bit too heavy for some, but the end of CoD can easily be left without continuing further. That said, I loved 1-4, and while the weirdness of Chapterhouse and Heretics can be off putting, I could see the point. After all, those two books were the deepest we got into the internal politics of the BG, which were a HUGE driving force behind the DU, even holding a certain power over the standing emperor, the member states of the Landsraad, and even CHOAM. Just wished he'd been able to finish the second saga instead of the schlock we got from BJ-KJA.
I mean when it comes to anything I really don't care what people think as long as I find it interesting and entertaining that's all that matters to me.
I know you hold Dune in high praise, but I just couldn't get into. The world and setting are amazing, but Paul was such a Mary-Sue character that I just wanted him to fail at something, anything at some point in the book. That's when I knew that this series wasn't for me, when you start rooting against the main character, even though they are on the side you want to see succeed. I liked the Dune world so much that I read Messiah, and that just turned me off from everything. I wouldn't say it ruined the Dune universe, the setting is so brilliant but I just no longer cared what happened in that world. The Dune world is so wonderful that it bothers me that I don't like the books. I rank the Dune world 3rd in all fiction. Middle-Earth, Arkham, Arrakis. I doubt I'll read the 3rd book, but who knows, maybe someday I'll have to take another trip to that desert planet.
Messiah and children’s ending was worth, but kinda just stopped after god emperor. Seems like a good stopping point but haven’t got to reading heretics
@@mikesbookreviews May have to reread them so you can help me tease Christopher Ruocchio, as I think the Hnored Matres are funny and he hates them lmao.
Started the series probably in Jr High and gave up half way through God Emperor. So fast forward 30 years and restarted, still had to slog thorough GE and then yes, Chapterhouse and Heretics just get odd as the fruits of the Golden Path are revealed. But Frank's reach might have been greater than his grasp for what he might have been trying to do. But for all those complaining that Paul is just a white savior, it is obvious they haven't read past the first book. But for all those complaining not to start ASOIAF because it isn't finished, Frank Herbert died in 1986 before finishing the series. I have mixed feelings on the last two Brian and Poul wrote. But did like the prequels just for some of the lore.
I agree with stopping after God Emperor. I don't think there was any saving that second arc, even if Frank Herbert lived to write the rest of it. How the Dune series went from the first four books to books about weird sex powers and the horrific way they restore the memories of underaged gholas is beyond me...
I actually rather enjoyed Heretics. I recall it as being a little more action oriented but this was 30 years ago when I read it... Chapterhouse was a bit of a slog.
Here I was thinking you'd give us a panorama of Brian Herbert's books. Who in their right mind would claim Frank's Dune books suck?? They are wild, for sure, but people have an expectation from the first book it is all coming of age fantasy and then God Emperor melts their brains.😂
I absolutely love all of the original six Dune novels! The other books are trash, but I have to admit that the Butlerian jihad books weren’t quite as bad as all the rest.
Dune is super cool, read with the audio book. But I also like pee pew. So besides Star Wars, and maybe Sun Eater are there any other swashbuckling pew pew sci-fi books?
I always found it odd that Messiah is so much shorter than Dune. I thought sequels should be longer than the original? Should Messiah and Children of Dune have been combined into one book?
It was originally serialized in a magazine before being compiled into a novel. Books 2 and 3 actually were sold together in one volume in some territories.
Basically I look at it this way. Paul is the main character of the first book, but the main character of the series is the planet arrakis itself.
The main character of the series is Duncan Idaho which is anticlimactic af.
@@skywatcheradept Duncan Idaho is one of the most fascinating characters to me personally. I mean leto the second kind of treats him like a favorite dog that he just refuses to let die.
@@ryhmetravila8085how is a favorite dog fascinating 😂
Because he's not a dog. He's a person, who is being treated as if he's someone else's personal property, and watching how he deals with that as he slowly comes to realize that is the case, is to me an interesting character study. It really is a horrible fate, living the same life as a glorified slave, again and again, coming to realize your own servitude, coming to realize that you are a clone, that the original person you think of as yourself died thousands of years ago. Again and again
Well said.
One of if not my favorite book of all time is a dune sequel. God emperor of dune is amazing
I really enjoyed that book
Folks seem to love it or hate it.
It’s still my favorite sequel. It’s so unlike anything I have read to this day. I’d rank them God Emperor, Messiah, Heretics, Children, then Chapterhouse. I found that Heretics feels like the closest sequel to the first book. It’s had more action, less psychological musings, and the world building kicks into overdrive. I really wish we would’ve gotten that last book.
God Emperor is where the science-fiction really starts.
I read all 6 of Frank's books and I was conflicted on my feelings for CoD & GEoD at first. However I've grown to love all 6. I think Heretics & Chapterhouse are underrated. Miles Teg is a bad@$$.
Miles Teg is the only good thing about Heretics and Chapterhouse
I've often thought I'm old enough now to try them again and maybe I'll feel differently. I just never have.
@@hunterkat I disagree. The message from Leto II left for the Bene Gesserit in the future was pretty epic. There is some cool stuff in the books if you are willing to let go of the past.
@@dustinneely I’m allowed to have my own opinion, and my opinion is that the sexual imprinting stuff was ridiculous and I did not like the other group like the Bene Gesserit with their alternate spice, I thought their motivations were hard to read at best- I don’t even remember what they were supposed to be doing, except trying to take over planets with sexual imprinting which as I said is ridiculous. I also don’t know why Duncan Idaho had to be brought back so many times, he should’ve stopped being a character after God Emperor. Miles Teg was the only interesting part of it, and the rest was either tedious or extremely ridiculous. I don’t mind weird, I read and enjoyed Children of Dune and God Emperor. But there’s definitely a limit. I did like the plot line of spice being scarce and trying to recreate Arrakis. I’m not saying they’re irredeemably bad or anything. I just don’t care for them, even with some good elements.
@@hunterkat I'm allowed to have my own opinion too.
Book 4 was one of the most thought provoking books i ever read when i was a teenager, i always encourage new readers to at least read the first 4
I found Heretics and CH to be really entertaining. You get to learn a lot about the Bene Gesserit. Of all 6 books, my favorite was Children of Dune as the characters and plot lines were amazing.
I think my favorite was Children of Dune, it felt tighter and more precise, it explored a lot of the same themes as the first book but expanded upon to the nth degree. I liked God emperor and appreciate its weirdness but after Children I didnt think it was THAT weird, but I'll say God Emperor was the one I struggled through because it didn't have the same level of suspense that the others had.
Mike I love your channel! Book tube is blessed to have you
Wow, thanks so much!
I've read all 6. Here's my takeaway with the sequels.
Messiah - Slower, but thought provoking. Its also short, so you're not having to deal with nearly 500 pages of ideas.
Children - Extremely fascinating. I liked the descriptions of prescience, ancestral memory, the reveals of the golden path, the preacher, all that stuff.
God Emperor - I still liked it, especially when it delved into Leto's psychology and sacrifice, and the occational bomb of political statements. It was a bit slower though, and this is probably the furthest I'll go for rereads.
Heretics - It was interesting at the beginning, though the story dragged a TON. It wouldve probably been better if it focussed more on Sheeana and ghola Duncan as opposed to the super beings Odrade, Taraza, and Teg. Still, it had its moments, such as the revelation of Leto's message and Teg's awakening.
Chapterhouse - I liked this one better than #5 because the Bene Gesserit actually take the Honored Matres more seriously, instead of constantly belittling them (even as they are being destroyed). I also thought the action here was more notable than Heretics (which confused me why people say Heretics has all the action), with the battle plan, and conflict that takes more than a chapter to end. Duncan's escape, as well as Daniel & Marty are cool too. I just wish Frank could've lived to make the 7th book.
So overall, a great series, just that its unlikely I'll reread the whole thing in full.
Who says the Dune sequels suck??? They’re great!
I read the first 3 books around the time the first Denis V film came out. Loved all 3 and have been interested but warned about continuing. I might get 4 and go back through then see how I feel. Thanks for the recommendation
My pleasure!
Just read them. It's worth it. I heard the same stuff you prob did, that it's 'out there' and 'weird.' That makes it sound like there's some huge tonal shift something, which there isn't. It's all very cohesive and incredibly interesting.
I personally still really enjoyed Heretics and Chapterhouse, although quite a bit less than books 1-4. I thought Teg was awesome but the main attraction to me was getting a lot more of the bene gesserit which is one of my favorite things about the entire series!
Overall, I think stopping after Messiah, Children, or God Emperor are all very reasonable recommendations for people. To me, God Emperor feels like the most complete ending to the story, but it's definitely not something everyone will enjoy.
I loved all six books. Mid way through God Emperor, the Ghola became my favorite character. Hence my name here.
My favorite book is Messiah. I like how everyone is suddenly against Paul. All the people plotting to take him down. The four or five conspirators is pretty standard. Because I’m a Howard fan, I bring everything back to Conan. It does remind me of Hour of the Dragon or Phoenix on the Sword. You have your Barbarian King, in this case Paul, who takes the throne by force. Suddenly everyone is plotting against him. Even old friends and the people freed from the previous King or Emperor are against him. I love that Messiah is such a downer.
I also liked picking out everything Lucas took for Star Wars. Even into the later books for the prequels. Right down to the Sith.
I was really getting into Herbert's prose, the way he wrote was very evocative. I love books that aren't mysteries per se, but that have a lot of mysteries that slowly unfold and these books are great for that. A true shame he passed before writing many more books in the series.
What Brian Herbert did was like watching a great painter's kid doing finger painting, just an absolute waste of time.
Heretics and Chapterhouse are my favorites of the series because I love the Bene Gesserit. Comparing them to the Aes Sedai is how my friend got me to read The Wheel of Time.
I loved the way the Bene Gesserit Grew and learned purpose. Miles Teg and Darwi Odrade were among my top favorite characters.
I never read past God Emperor myself because it was just getting way too weird and, like you said, not what I had expected. Good to hear that, apparently, I haven't missed much by ignoring the last two.
It becomes a more standard space opera in book 5, so the super-weirdness of God Emperor or Dune ends with that book.
I have read Dune three times now which felt necessary to fully understand it for me.
Dune Messiah i was initially turned off by but im glad i made myself keep going because that ending was perfect!
Currently reading Children of Dune and am loving the characters so far! I plan to finish God Emperor next and stop there.
In the first two books Alia was definitely my favorite character!
Who is yours?
I've read the original 13 times and I pick up new things each trip.
I like Brian/KevinJ works on Dune😅. But I do love more GodEmperor,Heretics and Chapterhouse. For me, those last 3 books are fantastic! 😅
no need to sweat after every sentence, it'll be alright😂
I need a begrudging explainer of the Brian Herbert Dune-iverse 😂
I came to this video thinking “Wow, someone is actually going to defend the books his son wrote, this should be interesting.” Seriously, who says the official sequels suck? God Emperor is dynamite.
I’ll be reading Messiah and children this year. Very excited to continue. I was planning on stopping after that but I’ll probably read God emperor on your recommendation to complete the golden path!
I’m at the end of children of dune, and with every turn of the page I want to read god emperor more and more.
My ranking is:
1- God Emperor
2- Dune
3- Heretics
4- Children
5- Chapterhouse
6- Messiah
As somebody who likes the world building and geopolitical lore side of dune more than the philosophical insights of Herbert, all of the books after Children are a travesty.
@@Jordblitz no
@@flotilha935 um, objectively yes 😂
@@Jordblitz“The truth always carries the ambiguity of the words used to express it.”
@@flotilha935 this is literally the exact thing the books after Children get bogged down in instead of crafting a realistic and dynamic universe 😂
I agree with your take on the first four Dune novels, but also liked 'Heretics of Dune' and 'Chapterhouse Dune' more than you apparently did. I kind of liked the Honored Matres and their inversion of Bene Gesserit disciplines. Alas, 'Chapterhouse Dune' didn't exactly end on a cliffhanger, but it felt woefully... incomplete. I wish Frank Herbert had managed to wrap up the Honored Matres story. I also generally agree that the books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson aren't in the same league as Frank Herbert's original series-- and I haven't read them all-- but I quite liked 'Paul of Dune.' I think 'Paul of Dune' is worth reading between 'Dune' and 'Dune Messiah,' with the understanding that it doesn't live up to either of those novels, because I do think it adds to the overall setting.
God Emperor is my favorite in the series, and LetoII is actually my dream role! I would love to play that character on screen!
I agree with you. Loved the trilogy, liked God Emperor and was super confused with the last two. I tell everyone if they've only seen the movie they might not like the book since the movies were made from the throw away lines in the book. I feel if they do another movie it will be about the Jihad and they'll skim over the rest of the book. What I never saw coming is the guy who is the connecting character, no spoilers, to all the books. That was kind of wild to me. If he is the next one at least people love the actor and would love seeing him some more. The way he'll be portrayed if they stick to the book, considering who it is, might make some people very confused.
1 Dune
2 Chapterhouse
3 Messiah
4 God Emperor
5 Heretics
6 Children
Thats my ranking. I think all the different movies, the show, etc have propped up my love for the original. Not sure why children didnt capture me as much, but i finished Chapterhouse a couple months ago and loved it.
As someone who's always wanted to read dune (but has heard that the sequels weren't very good) this video was exactly what I needed. Will be reading at least the first 4 now
"Brian books should be used as toilet paper..."
You won here a suscriber, my friend.
For a second I thought you were talking about the Brian Herbert sequels and got really confused
Damn that's harsh on the Brian Herbert "sequels". I thought that was what the video was about. I've never heard anyone say the rest of the Frank Herbert series suck. I guess I won't bother with the Brian Herbert books then, most people seem to hate them.
God Emperor of Dune is hands down the best book!
I totally agree. Dune 1 - for every sf fans. Dune 2/3 - for Dune fans. Dune 4/5/6 - for Dune nerds. I personally recommend to stop at the 3rd or 4th book as well.
Dune Dorks 4 Life
Heretic of Dune….you are.
@@mikesbookreviews We are are!! :)
So I watched this review before I started any of the Dune books, I just re-watched it after finishing God Emperor and it makes so much more sense now and I have to agree with him on just about everything. He said I’m not sure if I’m going to read more after this, but I’m definitely going to reread the series with the knowledge gain from God Emperor and I think that will completely change book one. Just thoughts before I dig back in
Thanks for the tips! 😊👍I'm a fan of "Hero's Journey" stories, so I guess the end of book 1 would be my jumping off point if I ever get around to reading it.
I think the problem is that the things I fell in love with when it came to dune where not necessarily the things that the author was the most interested in, and knowing what happened in the later books actually diminished my enjoyment of the original. I didnt spoil myself on purpose. Like, I figured things would end really poorly for Paul, but I was personally mostly interested in the political intrigue and the societies and cultural institutions. I personally did not find his philosophical discussions as profound as he himself found it. Especially from the perspective of political science. Most of it is very entry level theorizing described with very flowery and self-important language. And the later books seemingly contain more and more of that. I think thats probably why some people say the later books are "bad". They focus shifts/becomes more apparent. I enjoyed Dune Messiah and Children of Dune on an intellectual level, but I wasnt emotionally invested by that point. God emperor dune is kind of the opposite in that I actually was emotionally invested again, but I stopped being intellectually invested as I kind of stopped looking at him as a highly intelligent author, I know that sounds mean but it is what it is.
I only read the last few books anymore. Duncan is the only character in all the books and the key to what Frank had in mind for all of us
I thought you were talking about the prequels there for a minute and I was about to write something that would get me banned lol
Dune Messiah was my favorite. I stopped after children of dune because I saw that shit gets weird after that. I could have muscled my way though it but since Frank Herbert died before finishing the series, I chose to stop at children and am satisfied with that
The first book isn’t as good without the sequels.
How much Messiah made me look for different things the first time I re-read Dune certainly made it a different experience.
@@mikesbookreviews Absolutely, it adds more weight to the first book and gives it different connotations on rereads.
I read Dune for the first time when I was 13 (1983) so I can really relate to a lot of your story. I was really surprised by how much I loved and gobbled up Heretics and Chapterhouse. God Emperor took a few tries. In the end I went back and read the Brian/Anderson Prelude books, which I actually enjoyed, although they pale in comparison to Dune. Then, I just kept going all the way through Chapterhouse. Didn't make it past page 1 of the other Brian Herbert stuff that followed.
Have you picked up any other of Frank Herbert's work? I enjoyed Soul Catcher.
I'm about to watch Dune 2, and only recently saw Dune 1, and gearing up to read them all again, it's been about 15 years.
I felt depressed at the end of Chapterhouse partly because there wasn't going to ever be any more. It felt like stopping a book with 2 chapters to go. Wouldn't it be amazing if a Ghola of Frank could continue the story.
Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars(Barsoom) series influence all Sci fi after it, especially Star Wars, Flash Gordon,writers like Jack Vance, Jack McDevitt, Asimov, Ruocchio, Greg Bear, E.C Tubb etc, etc.
What would you say to me … if I said heretics and chapterhouse were my favorite books of the series?…🤔
I wonder how bad Brian's books might be, because they honestly can't be worse than Heretics... jeez what a load of pointless nothing.
Thanks for making this! I read Dune before the Part1 came out and loved both the book and the movie. Then i decided earlier this week that i really want to reread Dune and this video convinced me to make reading Dune Messiah a priority as well as to see Part 2. I just got back from the movie and I'm HYPED to read at least the 4 books!🎉🎉
I read Dune many years ago and never got around to the sequels.
About 6 years ago, I re-read Dune and then read Messiah and Children but I've had God Emperor sat on my shelf for a few years now but I haven't had the urge to read it yet..... maybe soon
I like Dune Messiah and God Emperor of Dune more than Dune, particularly the latter which is one of my favorite novels. The only Dune sequel that I have some problems with is Children of Dune, which I just feel needs to be tightened up in places, specifically Leto's odyssey. I like how weird stuff gets after the Scattering with the Honored Matres, Futars, Miles Teg, etc (if far future epic SF doesn't occasionally make you uncomfortable, it's not trying very hard imo) and while I would've liked to see where Frank Herbert was going with the story, I've come to see Chapterhouse as a fine ending.
Messiah's my favorite out the bunch
The sequels are dense as far as content, not length. The Golden Path is still something I still don’t completely understand, however, I agree that books 1-3 and 4 as an epilogue are essential. I enjoyed Heretics and am currently on Chapterhouse.
Change is always welcomed Brother! As change is the only permanent which exists. Blake Crouch is one of my favorites too. Haven’t read Lonesome Dove or Sun Eater so you are leading the pack by miles. 😊. God speed. My positive vibes are with Brian. Hope is makes it out hail and hearty. Authors are a precious community who help us dream with eyes open.
I wish Brian Herbert had hired Dean R. Koontz to write the sequel/prequels. Then it would be Dune R. Koontz!
and there would be an intelligent dog, like the pug Captain Picard was carrying in the Lynch movie. :)
I think Dune Messiah is the perfect ending for Paul's story, at least. Sure, some things are left unanswered, but as far as the tragedy of it all is concerned, I couldn't be more satisfied with it. I think you can stop at any of the first four books and be okay with it. Books 5 and 6 are interesting, but I found it it very difficult to get through them. I don't think that I will ever bother with the books by Brian Herbert. I am just not interested.
Did Brian Herbert intentionally seek to change the story or destroy the goals Frank originally had for the series, or is it that Brian is just a bad/different writer than Frank Herbert?
I enjoyed Dune. Read it before the movie but I thought the characters were weak. Recently finished Messiah and liked where it went and am interested in reading children but I don't think I'll read it anytime soon. I already know the craziness that happens in the sequels and part of me wants to read God Emperor to see how it all plays out. And yeah I think I'll stop there, especially reading that Herbert wanted Heretics to be the start of a new trilogy and it sadly didn't get concluded by him.
Did he say Brian Herbert wrote Heretics and Chapterhouse?
Damn, calling the Anderson & Herbert books Rings of Power, kinda harsh.😂😂😂
I read all 6 books when I was a teenager as well. I remember struggling with all of them-especially the first 4 books. There is ALOT of philosophy in them that went way over my head at that age (and still does to be honest). I agree with Mike that Dune Messiah and Children of Dune should be read together and I feel are actually 1 whole book. I still enjoyed Heretics and Chapterhouse and even though they are quite different than the other 4 books Frank still wrote them and I attribute the differences to age and time (I think he wrote Chapterhouse about 20 years after Dune). People change in 20 years. They are still good books. I will take exception to Mike's thoughts on Brian's and MJA's prequels and sequels. I enjoy them very much. I don't consider them "bastardizations" of the original. I think they give a more complete story of the Dune Universe. In my opinion they do tend to be a little long-winded but the stories are interesting and still thought-provoking. Albeit not as much so as with Frank's books. I haven't read all of the sequels but what I have I've enjoyed very much. Some might consider them "fan fiction" but I do not. I highly suggest fans of Frank's works to read the prequels and sequels. Sure they're written in a different style (different writers have different styles after all) but they doesn't mean they aren't well-written and a lot of fun to read.
Indeed. That's why I wonder if Heretics and Chapterhouse would work better for me at this age than at 16.
@@mikesbookreviews I'm not sure. To be honest, a few years ago (even before I knew they were remaking "Dune" I reread Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune. I used to have all 6 books but somehow lost Heretics and Chapterhouse. It would be interesting reread those now. As I said in my original comment, Frank wrote those books approximately 20 years after "Dune" so even though there was a lot of the same ideas/themes from the original book he matured as a writer and probably in his thoughts on different subjects so those later books had a different tone to them. Much more mentally digestible in my recollection. By the way, I've also read the "Pandora Sequence" books and you can see inklings of "Dune" in there but they are far inferior (even though they were done after "Dune). They were a slog for me and I almost didn't finish them. Not because dense themes but because of bad writing.
1:10 books from high school are not Worn at all 😂 they seem to be in a really “well care taken” throughout the years! Good job! However I don’t see them close up only at what you display them at and they look great! I prefer the older versions better! Great video! I got the first book! Read some threads and decide I will stop at book 1.
Well my copy of the original broke in half. And yeah I try to take care of my books as much as possible.
I don't understand how you can read Dune and think Paul is a hero.
I love the last two, but have never been tempted to delve into the the Brian Herbert books.
I thought the video was about Brian Herbert sequels........
I loved Messiah and God Emperor and to a lesser extent Children of Dune. I agree the Heretics and Chapterhouse are a step down, though I still think they're good. It's too bad we lost Frank Herbert and he was not able to write more. Cheers.
God Emperor is such a good way to end the series, really out there and creative and ties everything up nicely...then he made two more. I remember liking them but they didn't leave much of an impression.
I read Dune and Dune Messiah. Liked Dune, but was eh on Messiah. The movies are about to have me read at least 1-4. I need more Dune
Random question but does anybody know what bookshelves he has? I'm trying to find a nice dark shelving
It's strange. I love Messiah, but I've tried to read Children of Dune three different times. It just feels like Frank changed his mind about a lot of things.
I read Dune and Messiah in 2 weeks total. Then I read them both again in less than a week. I was so pumped to get into Children of Dune…and it took me 3 months to finish. There were a couple of interesting threads but I had a hard time connecting with the “main” characters
I think they are all worth reading. Frank Herbert definitely liked women, he had the Bene Gesserits and then later the Fish Talkers female army. There is a lot of odd things in these books but they are enjoyable to read. But if you like Dune, then the next 3 books, Messiah, Children and Emperor are all an essential continuation of that story. I was disappointed in Messiah of Dune, mostly because of what Paul does. And then the Children of Dune I'm disappointed in Jessica because she basically turns her back on everyone. The books by Frank Herberts son Brian are not as bad as some people make them out to be. But they do go off on some wild tangents and the prequels are just really new books that imagines the origins of the Dune universe.
I'm on God Emperor Of Dune almost done with it very good in my opinion. I'm loving the series so far.
Hey Mike, I tried to read book 2 and I could only do a couple of pages. Too much politics for me. I did read two of the prequel. House Atredides and House Harkkonen
I have read Dune nine times and I love it, but it is my fifth favorite book of the series. The amazing thing about books five and six is that they are truly alien fiction that transport you to a place far from earth better than anything I have ever experienced in any other media.
My personal mixed reference ethos, off the bat, is: DUNE or DUNE not, there is no try! My favorite cinematic analogy is how The Matrix is unbeatable, the One! While the two sequels for the film trilogy are a double feature dive-in concluder! Also your analogy, I think, to the OG Star Wars trilogy, the Prequel trilogy, and then the Disney iteration with its initial potential lost to too many hands and change at the helm in the money machine recipe soup and the undue mis-assigning of their actors as somehow creator/writers responsible for the actions of the characters they play, written for them. Same token, I will not fear the Hyperion book two...would you say Chapterhouse Dune title is a curious yet intriguing a title as Mistborn (Book One): "The FINAL Empire" is? Plus, I do see the 6 Frank Herbert Dune books 📚 as one narrative! And "sequels" being independent but attached, as the qualitatively fanfic expansions by Frank's son & company? Super accurate analogy to ROP, the latter! 🎉 🏜 🏹 🎯!!
I've read all of Frank's sequels and found something to make each worth reading. In fact, the weakest imo, Heretics, has one of my favorite scenes in the entire series, and most of that books faults for me lie in the style, which is the driest of all six books. I've also, unfortunately, read the 2-part Brian & Kevin "conclusion" to the series and refuse to believe those books accurately represent any substantial notes Frank may have left behind. I won't tell people not to read them, or the prequels. That's everyone's personal decision to make. And a lot of Dune fans enjoy them. For me, they were ultimately not rewarding, or insightful, or informative enough to keep at them, and none grace my bookshelves, they are relegated to my overflow boxes.
I read dune when I was 14 as well. Then I reread again when I was 30 . I love dune . I tried to read messiah and was bored out of my mind . I don’t know why but I think I’m happy with Dune being a much more sci-fi version of stat wars . Again Dune was my favorite book from age 14 to 30 something lol.
The time jump from book 1 to book 2 is a off-putting at first.
The six written by Frank are great, the ones written by the 'inheritors' are... variable in quality, and could stand as a separate series. Not as good but if you hadn't read the original they are acceptable. Not great, but acceptable.
As someone who actually used pages from the 'prequel' Dune: House Atreides as toilet paper to express my utter disgust with the quality, I can attest that they aren't even good for that.
The first four books are excellent, imo, but Chapterhouse and Heretics seemed a little forced and unnecessary.
Dune is one of my favourite books. I thought Messiah and Children were boring but once the series got into God Emperor I loved it again and Chapterhouse is my favourite of all the books , unpopular opinion I know.
The prequels were very very average and just a cash grab imho. I liked the first one with the Butlerian Jihad but they ended up awful and could not finish them.
Folks have strong feelings about God Emperor, one way or the other.
God emperor was a very good stopping point for me. The last two were too strange for me, perhaps if he wrote the last book it would be better.
I went to HS in the mid 80s and all my paperback copies of Dune look like the ones you have.
They are well loved
The atreides are still in the 5th and 6th book. Just their bloodline thousands of years later. Couldn't disagree more about 5 and 6, though. They have a super strong theme, and it's very clear the points Herbert was trying to get across. I think Heretics stands next to the original, at least for me.
Dune Messiah is the true ending for me and it's the perfect ending for Paul. You're mad at him for his bad decisions but also feel bad for him in some ways.
No doubt. It's probably a more fitting end for him than his actual end.
I get the perspective, but feel like at least going thru CoD truly completes Paul's story, simply due to how much insight Leto II gains into his father and his choices/failures. Following into GEoD can get a bit too heavy for some, but the end of CoD can easily be left without continuing further.
That said, I loved 1-4, and while the weirdness of Chapterhouse and Heretics can be off putting, I could see the point. After all, those two books were the deepest we got into the internal politics of the BG, which were a HUGE driving force behind the DU, even holding a certain power over the standing emperor, the member states of the Landsraad, and even CHOAM. Just wished he'd been able to finish the second saga instead of the schlock we got from BJ-KJA.
I mean when it comes to anything I really don't care what people think as long as I find it interesting and entertaining that's all that matters to me.
I know you hold Dune in high praise, but I just couldn't get into. The world and setting are amazing, but Paul was such a Mary-Sue character that I just wanted him to fail at something, anything at some point in the book. That's when I knew that this series wasn't for me, when you start rooting against the main character, even though they are on the side you want to see succeed. I liked the Dune world so much that I read Messiah, and that just turned me off from everything. I wouldn't say it ruined the Dune universe, the setting is so brilliant but I just no longer cared what happened in that world.
The Dune world is so wonderful that it bothers me that I don't like the books. I rank the Dune world 3rd in all fiction. Middle-Earth, Arkham, Arrakis. I doubt I'll read the 3rd book, but who knows, maybe someday I'll have to take another trip to that desert planet.
Messiah and children’s ending was worth, but kinda just stopped after god emperor. Seems like a good stopping point but haven’t got to reading heretics
Smart decision.
God Emperor is easily the best of the sequels. I also liked the last two better than most, as I thought the Honored Matres were fucking hilarious.
I remember almost nothing about books 5 & 6. That was 30 years ago.
@@mikesbookreviews May have to reread them so you can help me tease Christopher Ruocchio, as I think the Hnored Matres are funny and he hates them lmao.
Watching this while starting Heretics of Dune, lol
Honestly I thought it had a pretty good start!
It isn't awful. That title is reserved for anything Brian Herbert wrote.
@@mikesbookreviews Given you opinion on Brian's work, what are your expectations on the Dune: Prophecy HBO series that will premiere this year?
Started the series probably in Jr High and gave up half way through God Emperor. So fast forward 30 years and restarted, still had to slog thorough GE and then yes, Chapterhouse and Heretics just get odd as the fruits of the Golden Path are revealed. But Frank's reach might have been greater than his grasp for what he might have been trying to do.
But for all those complaining that Paul is just a white savior, it is obvious they haven't read past the first book.
But for all those complaining not to start ASOIAF because it isn't finished, Frank Herbert died in 1986 before finishing the series.
I have mixed feelings on the last two Brian and Poul wrote. But did like the prequels just for some of the lore.
I love Dune. It was one of my favorite books growing up but I think I like the sequels more the older I get.
This is great stuff to hear. I am now really looking forward to reading at least the first three sequels 👍
I agree with stopping after God Emperor. I don't think there was any saving that second arc, even if Frank Herbert lived to write the rest of it. How the Dune series went from the first four books to books about weird sex powers and the horrific way they restore the memories of underaged gholas is beyond me...
Ha ha I barely remember. I was 16 and like WTF is this?
I actually rather enjoyed Heretics. I recall it as being a little more action oriented but this was 30 years ago when I read it... Chapterhouse was a bit of a slog.
I’ve just started Dune Messiah so will see
Enjoy!
Here I was thinking you'd give us a panorama of Brian Herbert's books. Who in their right mind would claim Frank's Dune books suck?? They are wild, for sure, but people have an expectation from the first book it is all coming of age fantasy and then God Emperor melts their brains.😂
I absolutely love all of the original six Dune novels! The other books are trash, but I have to admit that the Butlerian jihad books weren’t quite as bad as all the rest.
Person that credit Dune books must have been on something really powerful. Reason why I say that each book just keeps on weirder & stranger.
God Emperor is my favorite book of all time
I bought dune because of you and just finished it.
So do most people just read the first book ?
Dune is super cool, read with the audio book. But I also like pee pew. So besides Star Wars, and maybe Sun Eater are there any other swashbuckling pew pew sci-fi books?
Just got done with Chapterhouse, they do kinda suck.
I always found it odd that Messiah is so much shorter than Dune. I thought sequels should be longer than the original? Should Messiah and Children of Dune have been combined into one book?
It was originally serialized in a magazine before being compiled into a novel. Books 2 and 3 actually were sold together in one volume in some territories.