I know this is a joke but at mid-high levels Sheik doesn't really struggle with kills and has pretty decent confirms. Her main problem is that because her low damage output she has to win neutral so many more times then her opponent, even with her long combos. If they buffed her damage no one would really talk about how hard it is to kill.
Sheik has kill setups but the problem is that she doesn’t deal enough damage. She can literally f-air you across the stage and you would take around 30%.
@@crazybokoblin8638 dude fair does 5% I'd you only use that well okay you won't do any damage If you use ANY other moves, now your combos deal a minimum of 40%
TheRagingInfernape Psh, we have kill confirms. We have weak nair to down b, we have... uh... ftilt to drag down uair to down smash, we have.... uh... I think... umm...
green of tree black of blue As a Sheik pocket, Sheik barely has any ways to kill, but she can actually rack up damage through either needle camping or general combos.
@@kyx5631 Its time to change that thinking man we got plenty kill power now. Having a tether grab that kills at 150 is actually dumb for a character that racks up damage like she does and has so many confirms into it, usmash that kills at 130 (when it works) and dsmash that puts your opponent at a easy edge-guard position offstage when landed by ledge, if it catches their jump some characters just die and it kills at 130 too. Idek when dash attack kills but it DOES. I mean you still have to play damage game but not nearly for as long as before. Past 100 you can pretty much start thinking about how to set up your opponent to die.
@@shyarusu7755 You might be correct. But that means I need to learn kill setups. Yay... Also, WiFi lag makes stuff like bomb into reverse bair difficult. Do you mean the up throw that kills at 150?
@@kyx5631 Yeah up throw is what I meant. It's literally dumb though the amount of things that get you that grab like bomb, charge shot, zair, dash back pivot grab out of jab 1 (if they're not gonna spot dodge) and out of tech chases and at ledge. Samus doesn't even have to engage with you at all till she gets that grab at kill percent. It's dumb and I love it. Reverse bair is diffy online for sure
HDWalrus basic advice would be that characters with projectiles do better on flatter stages with less platforms for the enemy to retreat on. also characters with good aerial juggling like Mario, Capfalcon, Falco, etc, really like platforms cuz they can continue juggling the opponent for longer. :)
Well there’s battlefield, or omega, some characters are better with platforms for combos, others are better on the flat stage, sorry if this doesn’t leave any room for a video
2:35 As a game and watch main, I agree. Just watch maister hold up smash for 10 seconds and have his opponent land on him because they don't know that gnw up smash has invincibility frames
Down throw, Judge, Oil Panic, Fire (while recovering, if you get a stage spike), all smashes (d-smash especially so because it sets up into f-smash if you sweetspot it), d-air, f-tilt, d-tilt…
@@CanClub Jab can kill a lot of characters..... if they're at 180-200+ and at the ledge, if I remember correctly. Ftilt can do the same at ledge, but earlier. Dtilt kills a lot of characters at 140-ish. Not lab tested for the percents, just anecdotal from playing. Of course there's a lot of factors (bad DI, move staling, weight, etc.) that go into whether each one can kill.
I literally lost at a tourny last weekend because other people kept living until like 180, and now you release this video at exactly the right time. Thanks man!
“Of course i’m too good for a free banana, we’re all too good for a free banana! If you don’t think you’re too good for a free banana? Believe in yourself a little bit”
@@dashmasterboss8251 I think PK fire to back throw takes less brain cells then just raw back throw and *maybe* raw pk thunder I'm not sure on that or PK fire to back throw
Ayyyeee another upload that helps me and the community become a better player. So glad you started your channel because without it i wouldnt be the player i am today. Keep up the amazing content
Great video! I literally use all these techniques on every fighting game I play. Plus it was fast to the point and it has a ton of replay value. Thanks for this video
This is a great video on Yomi without ever using the term. These types of reactions and reads exist in every fighting game, but I think smash showcases it pretty well.
This video is REALLY good for people who play characters who can struggle to kill. When I play Sheik (I don't main her but I play her for fun sometimes) I start fishing for her kill confirms at high percents, but when I don't fish for them I land alot more kills and instead of killing them at like 130% I usually kill them at like 90% instead
With the whole: Change your strategy thing, Puff can benefit from this one when landing with D-air. If you see the person always shielding, you can grab or pound if you know their shield is low. If they go for a quick and easy attack, go for Rest unless the final hit lands, then go for a follow up aerial.
THANK YOU! I was just playing a match and could not get a KO and I was getting high into the KO percentage as well. So I told myself to just play the match and wait for that opportunity because of this video and I won! Thank you for the advice!
I remember how tirelessly I practiced in Training Mode. I would do it NONSTOP, Monday-Sunday without breaks until I mastered my character and studied up on his attack patterns and kill options, especially how he KO'd his opponents at high and low percentages. It took me only five seconds to master Sephiroth. When I was finally finished with my weekend-long training, I went into Smash and Tourney Mode and I surprisingly won A TON of fights thanks to all of the ruthless training I did with my main.
Also try and be aware of their habits in order to know how to optimally ledge trap. Also try and look up some pro game play and guides on UA-cam because their is a lot of them and they're free to use
I mean, we gotta know how you're playing to tell you what to do differently. Off the top of my head it would be use nair more as a landing option maybe, and try reading roll getups more with an f smash or the one that makes the hammer like blue and mechanical or whatever
@@TheStellarJay going off what domotron said that can help but also not being predictable is also crucial cause if you do the same thing 13 times they will catch on and punish so be aware of your habits and try to mix up your options from recovery to neutral
for any ganon mains out there a nice kill option I like is dash back forward smash. I find it works especially well when the opponent is on the ledge or is shielding. The key is to know exactly when to forward smash because you can outspace most moves the opponent has to punish you so you really need to get the tip pretty much every time for it to work. I haven't seen any pros do it but it works for me so hopefully, it works for you too.
I would've also mentioned that it's incredibly important to know your Oki. In smash this translates to ledge traps, tech chases and any untrue combos your character might have. Knowing them well can lead to consistently taking stocks. Exploiting something like Snake's ledge pressure will consistently get you the kill at about 100%. It's one of the main differences between mid- and high level players.
Could you make an early/suprise kill tips video? Like getting sick spikes or gimmick kills or di mix ups? This video mostly covered high percent/not fishing. I agree with not being overly concerned about killing if you can win neutral/stage control, but what about the dreaded Marthritis? If I'm consistently getting opponents over 180% before taking the stock, I think I'm working too hard and am focusing too much on neutral. This is said as a Melee Marth and Ultimate Dark Samus. Loving these videos Bananaboy! Keep it up!
for game and watch the double up smash is really good because your opponent will almost always rush in after the first up smash and the same thing applies to down smash
I agree, you never wanna force a kill. If you can consistently get a hit solely b/c your foe is in disadvantage you are winning. Eventually they will die from high percentage and thats ultimately what you want
Can you make one of how and when to grab, cause that's a thing I'm really struggling with and probably other people who are trying to get better are too.
Thanks, I needed this vid, was playing Ike A while back, and I felt like I was only using up smash for kills. Even so he basically kills with everything.
Yoshi has an arsenal of kill options. His throw suck but hey I'll take the trade off. Plus, I love grabbing players with the egg lay and watch them fall off the ledge. It's fucking satisfying.
A thing that didn't occur to me for far too long: If you're a beginner or you just suck like me, you probably look at the damage dealt vs received after a round as a metric of how you did, but realize that a high dealt vs received ratio or big numbers in general often just means you weren't closing out stocks when you could.
Biggest tip overall though is learn to adapt to your opponents and punish them for their bad habits. With fox I've had plenty of people immediately air dodge when hit with dash so I'd wait for the air dodge and punish. Or when hit with dash near the ledge they would jump from the ledge and I catch them with up air. Adapting is important
Sheik mains: “WRITE THAT DOWN, WRITE THAT DOWN!”
i feel this man
I know this is a joke but at mid-high levels Sheik doesn't really struggle with kills and has pretty decent confirms. Her main problem is that because her low damage output she has to win neutral so many more times then her opponent, even with her long combos. If they buffed her damage no one would really talk about how hard it is to kill.
@@jasperkra-caskey2048 but sheik cant kill funny haha
Sheik has kill setups but the problem is that she doesn’t deal enough damage. She can literally f-air you across the stage and you would take around 30%.
@@crazybokoblin8638 dude fair does 5% I'd you only use that well okay you won't do any damage
If you use ANY other moves, now your combos deal a minimum of 40%
Bananaboi: "it's good to know which moves of yours kill"
Me, a Ganon main: "ah yes, my entire moveset"
T Conger 31 likes
[Multitopix]Naphtali Luther Flores nobody cares
@@fakegrant what the fuck is the point of this comment
me a sonic main: "lol"
@@yourehereforthatarentyou as a sonic main:no kill power needed.
Finally, my friend Better has been pissing me off lately
so if your friend pisses you off...you resort to killing them? 😅
@@girlfriendgamer4562 KO'ing them
Your friend's name is Better?
Well my name isn't Finally, but why has Better been pissing you off?
@@hhhhhh-vi6sq KO, Kill, same shit. :P
come on, you didn't need 10 minutes just to say "raw f-smash"
Dad have I detected a Ganon main? I think I have.
@@CaptainShenanigans42 hmm 30% lightweight who didn't sweet spot the ledge
doriah I must.
Jeffery Talosborn , I think you mean a Little Mac main. Many of us spam Fsmash all day.
@@Jazztral Mains Little Mac
Has Kirby as avatar
Add dash dance to make it look smarter
"Understanding your kill moves"
*uses literally any of ganondorf's moves*
laughs in ganondorf
Jab doesn't kill
Night niro oh no! I've been outwitted! However shall I convey the meaning of a hyperbole!?
@@CaptainShenanigans42 sorry?
Night niro you're forgiven
As someone who regularly has to censor the word 'kill' in the title to appease the UA-cam gods
I get the change
CreepsMcPasta creeps watches smash videos?
꧁Cloud꧂ its as if people play video games, nonetheless one of the most popular and most sold games recently
I checked out creeps from some of his old comments on melee vids, got me into it. Nice to see him still hanging out
Yo Creeps who do you main?
Kill kill kill
"Don't blame your character for their lack of kill-power"
Shiek mains: (•_•) ( •_ •)
TheRagingInfernape the endless struggle of our clan shall not go unrecorded
Sid bee
TheRagingInfernape Psh, we have kill confirms. We have weak nair to down b, we have... uh... ftilt to drag down uair to down smash, we have.... uh... I think... umm...
Shiek mains complain too much.
green of tree black of blue As a Sheik pocket, Sheik barely has any ways to kill, but she can actually rack up damage through either needle camping or general combos.
Playing marth has taught me the best way to get kills consistently is to keep you opponent in disadvantage rather than focus on actually killing
My name is Samus and I approve. I just pump out damage, they will die sooner or later.
Blaine Browning I use Sheik and I simply use kill setups every rare opportunity I can find.
@@kyx5631 Its time to change that thinking man we got plenty kill power now. Having a tether grab that kills at 150 is actually dumb for a character that racks up damage like she does and has so many confirms into it, usmash that kills at 130 (when it works) and dsmash that puts your opponent at a easy edge-guard position offstage when landed by ledge, if it catches their jump some characters just die and it kills at 130 too. Idek when dash attack kills but it DOES. I mean you still have to play damage game but not nearly for as long as before. Past 100 you can pretty much start thinking about how to set up your opponent to die.
@@shyarusu7755 You might be correct. But that means I need to learn kill setups. Yay...
Also, WiFi lag makes stuff like bomb into reverse bair difficult.
Do you mean the up throw that kills at 150?
@@kyx5631 Yeah up throw is what I meant. It's literally dumb though the amount of things that get you that grab like bomb, charge shot, zair, dash back pivot grab out of jab 1 (if they're not gonna spot dodge) and out of tech chases and at ledge. Samus doesn't even have to engage with you at all till she gets that grab at kill percent. It's dumb and I love it. Reverse bair is diffy online for sure
I would love a video on picking stages that suit characters and picking stages that certain characters struggle on
HDWalrus
basic advice would be that characters with projectiles do better on flatter stages with less platforms for the enemy to retreat on. also characters with good aerial juggling like Mario, Capfalcon, Falco, etc, really like platforms cuz they can continue juggling the opponent for longer. :)
@@RacingSnails64 thank you my tits
HDWalrus at least you thanked my tits
ua-cam.com/video/29c6-AJr8LY/v-deo.html Go watch this, it might be quite helpful.
Well there’s battlefield, or omega, some characters are better with platforms for combos, others are better on the flat stage, sorry if this doesn’t leave any room for a video
"Know your character's kill moves"
Man it feels good to main Byleth right now.
2:35
As a game and watch main, I agree.
Just watch maister hold up smash for 10 seconds and have his opponent land on him because they don't know that gnw up smash has invincibility frames
@streyar bruh fr it’s so safe it bs
streyar
The amount of people I see try to punish that move only to get down tilted is hilarious.
streyar up smash is -20 babe
@@Endershock1678 theres only one attack that gives no shit about gnw upsmash.... Yeah wonderwing
i killed a falcon during falcon kick by doing this
Ganondorf Mains: "Wait you guys have only a few kill moves?"
His jab and two of his tilts aren’t
MasterXG fast characters: Can’t hear you fat ass mind running over here and telling us.
Down throw, Judge, Oil Panic, Fire (while recovering, if you get a stage spike), all smashes (d-smash especially so because it sets up into f-smash if you sweetspot it), d-air, f-tilt, d-tilt…
@@CanClub Jab can kill a lot of characters..... if they're at 180-200+ and at the ledge, if I remember correctly.
Ftilt can do the same at ledge, but earlier.
Dtilt kills a lot of characters at 140-ish.
Not lab tested for the percents, just anecdotal from playing. Of course there's a lot of factors (bad DI, move staling, weight, etc.) that go into whether each one can kill.
sheik :you guys are getting kill moves
"if someone named Better was subscribed they would be really freaked out by now"
and they wouldn't be threatened by being KO'd?
That's their kink.
😳
Kink Shaming is my kink.
I literally lost at a tourny last weekend because other people kept living until like 180, and now you release this video at exactly the right time. Thanks man!
Goomba kept.
Who were you playing? That info might let people help.
@@guidomista3570 Joker and Bayonetta. 2 characters that can struggle a bit with killing.
Surely before last weekend would've been a better time
Know it’s small, but I love that you have captions for when headphones aren’t available and stuff.
As a Young Link main, learning all of his kill confirms was what made me kill Snake at 80 insteadof 180.
ProNerdy what are yinks best kill confirms? I want to start using him
ProNerdy thanks! What is the discord name btw?
Evan Miller go to smashcords.com/smash-5 and select young link from the list
0:26 never before have I been so offended by something that I 100% agree with
“Of course i’m too good for a free banana, we’re all too good for a free banana! If you don’t think you’re too good for a free banana? Believe in yourself a little bit”
And never again will it happen
@Jeeses99 kamikaze was so good though
Took too long is right, and the good album wasn't even Revival
"Don't blame your character for their lack of power.."
*Cries in Sheik main*
“This shouldn’t take too long or be too hard” Silver Fight in Sonic 06 is the only way to represent both.
as someone who has seen that fight many times i can confirm
*IT'S NO USE*
That "kill" joke killed me....no? Ok, I better stop.
lmao I'm dying this is too good
kowalski, analysis
BB: avoid using kill moves sometimes
Me, a Ganondorf main: all I have are kill moves
Ganon mains, "Guess I won't use moves."
Better: *Ahh, I do prefer being knocked out instead of dead.*
5:50
> Abbreviation of "back air" is "bair"
> Shows a bear in bubble when "back air" is said
> Respect +50
Ness Main: oh it's easy to kill just grab somebody and back throw. Everyone can do that right?
downsmash at ledge *intense pain and physical cringe*
@@dddmemaybe so true
i prefer raw pk thunder in neutral because it takes less brain cells
@@dashmasterboss8251 I think PK fire to back throw takes less brain cells then just raw back throw and *maybe* raw pk thunder I'm not sure on that or PK fire to back throw
@night niro the best part about raw pk thunder is if it actually connects your opponent feels equally or even sometimes dumber than you
So glad I found your channel at the beginning of Ultimate. Keep it up, BananaBoy!
"If you're trying a new character, you need to learn their kill moves"
*Shows ganondorf*
Ayyyeee another upload that helps me and the community become a better player. So glad you started your channel because without it i wouldnt be the player i am today. Keep up the amazing content
Oh hell yeah, Better's about to catch these hands.
Appreciate all of your tutorials. Been watching them for years. Love hearing ways to help my mind during a match.
Wait, so I can't just spam smash attacks and hope for the best?
But doriyah
little mac
@@hhhhhh-vi6sq Little Mac's forwards smash is by far the weakest in the game.
You can but you need to charge them cause that way they work like a magnet and the enemy will run into it.
If your wolf then sure it'll work
Great video! I literally use all these techniques on every fighting game I play.
Plus it was fast to the point and it has a ton of replay value.
Thanks for this video
Oh I need this. My opponents often live past 150%
This is a great video on Yomi without ever using the term. These types of reactions and reads exist in every fighting game, but I think smash showcases it pretty well.
Shiek mains: exist
Ganondorf: *laughs in doriyah*
No one:
BananaBoy:
"know your best kill options"
*shows ganondorf who has a kill guarantee on every move
That patented TG Static/Leon back hits of Bowser nair to back air true combo kill confirm in the intro made my little Koopa heart smile.
Banana boy: “it’a good to know which moves of yours kill”
Me as a Pac-Man Main: Hydrant
This video is REALLY good for people who play characters who can struggle to kill. When I play Sheik (I don't main her but I play her for fun sometimes) I start fishing for her kill confirms at high percents, but when I don't fish for them I land alot more kills and instead of killing them at like 130% I usually kill them at like 90% instead
0:00 WHOA WHOA WHOA ROBOT BANANABOY
With the whole: Change your strategy thing, Puff can benefit from this one when landing with D-air. If you see the person always shielding, you can grab or pound if you know their shield is low. If they go for a quick and easy attack, go for Rest unless the final hit lands, then go for a follow up aerial.
I wish he was using wolf at 4:50 so he would have said " a aware wolf"
THANK YOU!
I was just playing a match and could not get a KO and I was getting high into the KO percentage as well. So I told myself to just play the match and wait for that opportunity because of this video and I won! Thank you for the advice!
I remember how tirelessly I practiced in Training Mode. I would do it NONSTOP, Monday-Sunday without breaks until I mastered my character and studied up on his attack patterns and kill options, especially how he KO'd his opponents at high and low percentages. It took me only five seconds to master Sephiroth. When I was finally finished with my weekend-long training, I went into Smash and Tourney Mode and I surprisingly won A TON of fights thanks to all of the ruthless training I did with my main.
I saw Ganondorf in the video, I was like boi, all of his attacks kill
As a bowser main, I feel privileged by your frequent use of bowser in your videos.
Me, a Bowser main, with every move killing ridiculously early: This really helped! Thanks!
Shulk: hold my Smash Art
After a year of studying, I've finally found the answer!
Play Ganon, Roy, or Incineroar.
I really quite like your editing style. Nice editing style bro.
bananaboy : this shouldn't take too long
also bananaboy : shows Eminem's revival
shots fired
I’m loving the HGSS OST!
I like how he talks about the nerf didn’t do much. As pal mains that makes all of us proud
5:05 Rob makes a sad face when you grab him
I'm never going to be able to kill a rob ever again
"Most characters have a 0% - 20% combo"
Ganondorf: "you guys need a combo for that?"
Video: Know your best kill moves
Bayo players: ...
... We don't really have any tbh
Lawrence Santillan Side B?
Last clip is of melee... There is truly no escape from such a great game.
Hero’s Dair crit upsmash normally kills at 30, but oomph makes it kill at like twenty or less
that cat is so cute that i want to lightly pet it in a comfortable fashion so it has maximum enjoyment
0:21 LUL THE REFERENCES.
I feel like I play the exact same against every fighter and every character, and I feel like it’s holding me back. I main DeDeDe. Any tips?
Falling Nair combos into back air or up air near death % and ledge trap with gordo and f tilt or down smash to cover roll
Also try and be aware of their habits in order to know how to optimally ledge trap. Also try and look up some pro game play and guides on UA-cam because their is a lot of them and they're free to use
I mean, we gotta know how you're playing to tell you what to do differently. Off the top of my head it would be use nair more as a landing option maybe, and try reading roll getups more with an f smash or the one that makes the hammer like blue and mechanical or whatever
Domotron 35 I could link a past livestream if you want
@@TheStellarJay going off what domotron said that can help but also not being predictable is also crucial cause if you do the same thing 13 times they will catch on and punish so be aware of your habits and try to mix up your options from recovery to neutral
“Now let’s get out of Training Mode and into an actual match.”
*stays in Training Mode*
Great video. Not that BB is the one that needs to do this, but a video/list of every character's kill setups and kill moves would be incredible
for any ganon mains out there a nice kill option I like is dash back forward smash. I find it works especially well when the opponent is on the ledge or is shielding. The key is to know exactly when to forward smash because you can outspace most moves the opponent has to punish you so you really need to get the tip pretty much every time for it to work. I haven't seen any pros do it but it works for me so hopefully, it works for you too.
“Don’t let your emotions get to you”
Me, on the verge of anger because I keep losing: That’s so easy, it shouldn’t even be a tip!
I would've also mentioned that it's incredibly important to know your Oki. In smash this translates to ledge traps, tech chases and any untrue combos your character might have. Knowing them well can lead to consistently taking stocks. Exploiting something like Snake's ledge pressure will consistently get you the kill at about 100%. It's one of the main differences between mid- and high level players.
How to K.O. Better:
The Kid named Better: *sweating profusely*
Me: Knows multiple Lucas kill confirms and kills consistently.
Also me: I N T E R E S T I N G
Could you make an early/suprise kill tips video? Like getting sick spikes or gimmick kills or di mix ups? This video mostly covered high percent/not fishing.
I agree with not being overly concerned about killing if you can win neutral/stage control, but what about the dreaded Marthritis? If I'm consistently getting opponents over 180% before taking the stock, I think I'm working too hard and am focusing too much on neutral. This is said as a Melee Marth and Ultimate Dark Samus. Loving these videos Bananaboy! Keep it up!
This channel is top tier💯
for game and watch the double up smash is really good because your opponent will almost always rush in after the first up smash and the same thing applies to down smash
Yo I love the educated yoshi art in the video!!!
0:04 Don't worry Better, we aren't gonna kill you. You're getting knocked the fuck out.
Thank you for your service to this country
As someone who mains Sonic, I learned that keeping your opponent in a stressful situation is sure to get you some credit.
Yo ima try that
Bowser Nair to Bair is one of my favourite kill confirm but my favourite match finisher is wolf flash spike
9:59
Me: -cries in sheik main-
-laughs in Ganondorf and little mac-
-laughs in luigi main-
"note ur optimal kill options" shows ganondorf the guy who kills at 40 sometimes
Tip for Game & Watch: up smash...they always land into it. It's a magnet
“Understanding your kill options is a must for closing out stocks”
*is playing ganondorf*
Yo this well edited & succinct as fuck. Nicely done
I always get whipped and nae nae when it comes to getting stocks.
I agree, you never wanna force a kill. If you can consistently get a hit solely b/c your foe is in disadvantage you are winning. Eventually they will die from high percentage and thats ultimately what you want
Thank you for this video! Thanks for your time and your work :)
4:27 I KNEW IT NAIR WOW DOWN AIR TOO WOW YK
Can you make one of how and when to grab, cause that's a thing I'm really struggling with and probably other people who are trying to get better are too.
Action LOGan
same here :(
Understand your opponents kill moves
Ganon Mains: All of the above
Sonic Mains: The Timer
BananaBoy: makes this video
Me: *laughs in Bayo*
Great video! These are all really helpful!
Bowser and Ganon: *people don't know how to kill?*
Not even this video can help bayonetta mains #buffbayo
I literally have the same name as your cat, also, thanks for the guide. It helps a lot
as the wise goku once said "hit them really hard"
Thanks, I needed this vid, was playing Ike A while back, and I felt like I was only using up smash for kills. Even so he basically kills with everything.
A mii brawler guide, finally
1:48 That was a D-tilt to a cancelled Up tilt to POWER GEYSER.
Yoshi has an arsenal of kill options. His throw suck but hey I'll take the trade off. Plus, I love grabbing players with the egg lay and watch them fall off the ledge. It's fucking satisfying.
When he whispered “Why is that so important?” I thought that was me.
8:36 I'm going to try that. As a 120K GSP Mario main trying to improve I can use all the help I can get :p
A thing that didn't occur to me for far too long:
If you're a beginner or you just suck like me, you probably look at the damage dealt vs received after a round as a metric of how you did, but realize that a high dealt vs received ratio or big numbers in general often just means you weren't closing out stocks when you could.
Biggest tip overall though is learn to adapt to your opponents and punish them for their bad habits. With fox I've had plenty of people immediately air dodge when hit with dash so I'd wait for the air dodge and punish. Or when hit with dash near the ledge they would jump from the ledge and I catch them with up air.
Adapting is important