Thoughts on the new style? I have a video recorded about this, but I wanted to try out making videos in a different style because I've been so buried in work that finding time to edit over the top video essays isn't going to work moving forward. I'll still make them, but I understand that people want content AND quietly I want to try something new. So, kick back, listen, engage and vibe with me.
I like the style, a mix of this and (when it can be managed) the classic style would make for a really cool vibe to the channel imo, only real concern would just be echoing the volume.
That’s why I love the idea of us all creating your own spiritual beliefs without organized religion. Or looking to society for approval on our beliefs because society is largely manipulated. This society has a system of manipulation and cognitive dissonance built to keep rich white men in power, they were able to create a system that attacked peoples beliefs in every section of their lives. The more I learn about my ancestors and the world history before imperialism the more I learn just how rigged this all seems to be. Because I know many of us have been converted to religions they forced our ancestors to believe in, I believe the way for us to find our spiritual guidance is to look within. Looking within yourself is such a radical concept because the rich rely on our need for social connection to destroy our confidence in our own intuition independent of those around us. This shit is like the matrix and the way out is to each become Neo.
The Good Place hits upon this idea of the afterlife quite well, there’s a point system of good deeds and bad deeds ****Spoilers***** and under the system of capitalism no one could realistically get into heaven. Even the ones who do become numb with boredom with all their needs and desires immediately met. It hits well on the idea of infinite punishment for finite crimes(whether it be murder or stealing, worshiping a false god, etc) and a lot of people got better after they died which called the system into question even more. ***** What resonated was the idea of being by default doomed to hell. I’m well accustomed to this, being gay this was a constant thing to think about, and looking back the homophobic nature of some sermons my pastor made, pushed me away from religion. A constant question I always had but could never ask is if God made me gay and if so why am I being told I shouldn’t be? While I don’t dismiss the idea of a higher power, the idea of hell always seemed to be more of a control mechanism and a way to separate the heathens from the anointed. I think religion gives people a moral leg to stand on to attack those they deem immoral, the same way laws do, lawbreaker/criminal/thug are not terms of endearment. Religion can condition one to accept that immoral deeds should be punished but like laws, what’s considered immoral can be very arbitrary.
Hiya. I have a pretty similar upbringing to you. When I was surrounded by homophobic rhetoric, I questioned the function of religion a lot. I think it’s for purpose You can find purpose in the roles set out for you along with the community that is based around them. When you have that sense of purpose, it comes with a sense that you *should* fulfill it. I don’t thing religion’s moral code is an attempt at justice-but that it’s a rationalization of the sense that there is a ~should~ I definitely agree with your last paragraph. As you pointed out with the good place, The concept of heaven and hell doesn’t actually work well with human condition and nature. Because of the way people pick which sins are important to them and which they’re more lenient with, I don’t think moral codes created heaven and hell. It’s born from the need to rationalize the feeling that people should act one way. This is mirrored in laws and punishment like first and second degree murder. Someone murdering with intent vs out of passion are about as likely to murder again, but we punish a murderer’s premeditation because it’s scary. From that fear, we decide that the reason for our fear is that a person with intent is dangerous. Laws and religious morality look to me like a rationalization of an intuitive sense of right & wrong
Growing up Hindu and going to Catholic schools made me an atheist because of how punitive most of what I was taught is, very little about personal or spiritual development. It's only now getting into more leftist circles that I've seen religious people who understand that what we practice on this planet needs to be communal, revolutionary, and rehabilitative.
There are people on both sides of the political spectrum that believe in building up the kingdom. I am fortunate enough to have to have found a church that focuses on education and spiritual development. I am aware that there are many many fakes out there tho. Also i dont think there is nothing wrong with occasionally thinking about the negative impacts of your actions if that is not the only thing you do
Well, in Japanese Bhuddism, there are 270+ realms in the after life and you get sent to one of then depending on what crimes or wrongs you did yhe most that were severe. You suffer for however many years, decades or centuries Enma, emperor of hell, thinks you deserve and then after you "finish your sentence" you get the chance to be reincarnated and hopefully do better in your next life. Or, something like that. For example, there's a realm of hell where people get ripped apart by animals forever, if they were cruel to animals in life.
You are definitely not alone in your thoughts about this. I started questioning the concept of eternal damnation as an early teen. I had a morbid curiosity of cult leaders and SKs back then and wondered how people become extremely antisocial. One thing that most of them had in common was CB and repeated victimization. That’s not just a personal/familial problem, it’s a societal problem. I wondered how could someone be punished forever for behaviors that are a result of being hurt badly or mental illness. It just didn’t feel right to me, and I went through a period of agnosticism before coming to my current spiritual identity. Thank you for your vulnerability and courage to discuss this topic. Growth comes when we use critical thinking to reevaluate what we’ve been taught and decide if those beliefs are no longer serving us.
I would recommend looking into the concept of universal reconciliation. Its a concept that aligns far more with my beliefs in rehabilitation as opposed to punitive justice like the heaven hell dynamic does
I always had conflicting feelings about that binary framing of the afterlife in Christianity for various reasons but the two main ones being: 1. God is portrayed as a petty, vengeful, and jealous deity in many ways which completely contradicts the omniscient, understanding and merciful qualities that he's supposed to have in abundance. 2. You can't convince me that a thief who stole money and food to feed their family in hard times will burn for eternity while the r*pists, m*rderers and corrupt authorities get a free pass to paradise if they chose to repent at the 11th hour. I'm pretty sure God is infinitely wise and knows who is a bad person without needing his ego stroked, so haphazardly sending souls to eternal torture over some bread and coin purses but letting worse things go by unchecked cause he got a shout out and the perpetrator donated to the church seems like something a narcissistic politician would do rather than an someone of immeasurable wisdom and morality would do. How do you give the same punishment to un-baptized babies that you would a man who killed people for fun? The further you look into it, the more the whole things looks and sounds like a pyramid scheme with some bribery, blackmail and extortion for flavour.
1. In the old testament, the metaphor of God being jealous used in the bible is suppose to relate the relationship between God and israel to a relationship between a married person and their partner that cant help but sleep around. The reason why the worship of other gods is a problem is because the moral and actions that the israelites have agreed to uphold end up getting sidelined and things such as welfare and not doing human sacrifices stop being a thing.
2. The original word for repent meant "to turn away" so if u stole something felt bad for it and actively do whatever u can do to not steal ur fine. Meanwhile in matthew 7:22, the bible depicts that just because you say that you repent doesnt mean that God will not judge whether or u have truly repented and changed as a person.
What exactly goes on in hell is in a rather hot topic of debate amoungst biblical scholars to this day. honestly i never cared much since its gonna suck alot anyways
I really hope the afterlife is like The Good Place 🙂 The criminal justice system in Ireland and the UK and probably North America actually works very well at what it's supposed to do, which os maintain the status quo through generations
I remember long ago someone told me something about the Bible says Hell is not actually an eternal punishment where you're there for eternity. Eventually God will save all souls. Don't think I've ever read anything like that in the Bible though. As far as the binary of Heaven is a reward, Hell is a punishment, I've never really thought much of it just because of what I was taught about how to interpret Christian spirituality vs how I viewed it as someone who's been Agnostic for as long I can remember. Like, I was raised to be Catholic. I was baptized at 6, and my uncle who was chosen to be my godfather gifted me a bible. I've rarely read it, but I've picked it up a few times. All throughout this version of the Bible is commentary written by a theological scholar. At the beginning of Genesis they speak of how Genesis is mostly a creation myth meant to teach a morale lesson, and not something to be taken literally, as historical fact. They reason that all that God has to tell us they have spoken clearly and simply, so that there can be no room for misinterpretation of the wisdom they're trying to impart on the Human race. What is vague should not be taken to heart in the same way as what is clear. But what I've been taught by those around me was that every word has a message for us. God wants us to learn something from everything that is said. So, when you read something like the Book of Revelations, it's all extremely vague in what it's saying. Very heavy on symbolism. The events can be made to fit any period in History, which they have been. And nothing said seems like any sort of clear, concrete declaration by God. It's a dream of the prophet who wrote it. The people around me would have me believe that God wants us to decode the message to prepare for the end times, but the biblical scholar providing their commentary said it's vague, so the message isn't as important as something like what Jesus had to say. With that in mind, it formed this concept of Heaven and Hell in my mind that the end of the World and Hell is the consequences of never stopping to correct our destructive impulses. The Earth itself is our Garden of Eden, but a wealthy and powerful few are destroying it, and our chance at Heaven with it. Hell is the consequence of us letting the planet die, so that a few can enrich themselves beyond their wildest dreams. Basically, the Book of Revelations in my mind became a call to revolutionary action, and Heaven is what we could have if we heed that call. Rather than Heaven and Hell being some other dimensions we're sent to based on how righteous we were following the path of God after we've died in this world. The Bible itself has messaging that can be considered both revolutionary and counter-revolutionary. Not really an answer to the question you posed, but it's how I conceptualized Heaven and Hell as someone who is Agnostic.
thats a really cool interpretation! as a lifelong atheist, the way people interpret religious texts is so fascinating to me because you can take it in literally any direction. anyways: this idea is really cool, im probably gonna be thinking about it all day now
New to your channel, came here from FD's and cause I crave Boondocks content. This is my first video of yours outside of that and I love it. This, honestly, is the real fucking question. When it comes to actually helping people, getting them to open up, being there with them even in their worst times, and then making them into... happy people. I think it's possible, but our descriptions of heaven and hell, and the ideologies that follow, limit us in our ability. I'd also add that the US penal system is particularly bad, and I blame the Puritans, who were all about suffering=redemption cause ur trash. Buddhism is interesting in this regard because Buddhist hells are about a lack of awareness and control. The karma you build up leads you to an existence of blind want, grasping but never holding. To be a little higher up as an animal means you live a life in a higher realm, but you are beholden to impulses and are unlikely to be reborn in a higher place. Even Gods in Buddhism don't live forever, and their existence is marred by indifference due to there being no real stakes for them. Humans, on the other hand, are lucky in that we can choose, we can change, and we can understand our actions and the effects they have. I'd say we even have the science to support just... giving the people the help they need rather than condemning them, but as a society we're still pretty afraid of trusting the humanity of others.
I think it's interesting that in Eastern faiths like Buddhism, BOTH heaven and hell are temporary residences for the spirit., because these places are reflections of our mortal, earthly ideas of what rewards and punishments are. As spiritual beings, achieving true enlightenment, and atonement with the universe, means transcending these concepts entirely. I also find it interesting that this idea has also beenexplored in Western Christian thought too. I'd recommend checking out Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy, not just as exploration of divine justice/punishment, but as an early entry into the canon of prison literature.
I also love how people say ”our life on earth is like a test to see where u go” like bitch what so I have to go to hell for an eternity after 80 or so years of living on earth? Why can’t we just exist and learn and vibe in the afterlife? I think interesting biblical concept is viewing God as our father, and then looking at themes like the banishment from eden, punishment, trying to earn our love and prove we’re good enough, etc.
i really enjoyed the show lucifer for these concepts as i feel like it did a good job of relating christianity to humanity. it goes into the whole divine family and their dysfunctionality and suggests alternatives. there's a lot of other things that happen in the show, but i feel they did a good job of representing christianity with respectful scrutiny and criticism. i grew up christian, but the more i actually thought about the afterlife, the less it made sense to me as no matter which place you go to, you'd eventually get used to it and eventually bored. yeah, pain hurts, but i wouldn't really consider it "suffering" because you can become accustomed to pain. i've never really feared pain in life so much as i fear any permanent damage that may be a result of it. and if people ar to "eternally suffer" with no way out of it, then they would probably just give-up and deal with it eventually. people would just get used to it. this also lead me to think about whether we even have souls and the way i see it, we're just an amalgamation of all of that was put into us, including the matter that makes our bodies as well as the information we absorb. we feel we have "souls" because we are too complex to understand every detail about ourselves and it's really just a way of explaining the inconceivable and that's how i see religion as a whole now. it's all just a way of rationalizing our unfathomable universe in a simpler way. the universe has certain rules it uses to maintain it's balance and we've fabricated our morals based on a lot of them. most people would say that theft is "bad" but the universe doesn't really care so much as you "pay" in some other way. all life must take from other life forms or the environment to live and survive, we're technically taking oxygen out of the air each time we breathe. but we also give back gases that other organisms can use so we're also contributing through output. it's also important to note that "good" doesn't always beget good and "bad" doesn't always beget bad. what is "good" and "bad" are just man-made concepts to generalize what we think the universe (or whatever power that governs it) wants out of us, but is also usually tainted by our own desires in some way. it's all based on our perception of the world.
My main story deals with three main themes: Souls (Spirit and having’Spirit’ to be exact , Death and Destiny.) But since I tend to not like heaven/hell cosmology in all my stories due to my orientation. I use reincarnation for my death mechanism and divine judgment is more akin to a semi-hands off model, in which rebirth and birth ‘just is’ Plus I don’t like the idea of being in hell. For obvious reasons. I technically have afterlives in my fictional notes but I dont associate them with heaven and hell. Also, this new style? I like it but was it pre recorded? I could be high but It feels like a livestream lol😳💜 Also Spirit thankfully pretty culturally neutral. I also like the idea of ‘divine destiny or power’ not ‘divine judgement’ so I personally substitute the two. Edit: Early cuz professional bell presser (youtube addict lol) Be sure to ring that fucking 🛎
Question, so how do you explore predestined fate & destiny vs/alongside choices? And part 2 is add the the fact that you explore reincarnation also? So is there any carry over from to life in terms of memories, effects of choices etc etc? Cause im wondering if reincarnation plays into / has any impact or informs and shapes in any way, the next life to come and how does that interact with the concept of destiny, fate, free choices? I hope i worded this in a clear way.
I definately agree that this is an intresting topic to discuss. There are some things that I have learnt over the years about christian theology that I will add below that I hope can help add to some more discussion around this topic. Alot of these will be based upon how I see them apsects of this are culturally talked about that I think aren't quite correct. 1) Generally within christan theology going to heaven and hell are not really based upon some weight of good deeds vs a weight of evil deeds but rather instead on whether one is in a personal relationship with God. Biblically this is framed less a going to heaven or hell dichotomy but more spending eternaty with God or going to hell. This judgement happens at what is the end of this age. 1.1) The bible describes how at the end of this age there will be a new heaven and a new earth. It instead of saying we necessarily go to heaven for this eternal relationship with God we go to a this new earth and have the eternal relationship with God. I then believe it describes this new heaven as an open heaven over this new earth, essentially that heaven will be present over the whole of this new earth. 1.2) I don't believe that the bible talks about heaven as a place where you receive a grea amount of material wealth. Where this idea of material wealth I think pulled from is where the bible talks about storing up treasure in heaven. However it as far as I know it doesn't explicitly tell us what this treasure is, it talks about how material wealth of this age cannot be taken to the next age and that material wealth will be worthless in the age to come. 2) A couple of areas in the bible describe hell as a place where you will be in perminate darkness, surrounded by the gnashing of teeth and being tormented by burning sulfer; which I believe is where we get the general the endless suffering idea of hell. 2.1) Hell is also described in the bible at one point as the place where both body and soul is destroyed; which leads to the possible idea that instead of endless suffering, one might receive annihilation. 2.2.) The only place I know of where the bible talks about fire and hell, which we commonly imagine as the form of endless suffering, is where it states burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire. This as far as I can tell doesn't indicate to either endless suffering or annihilation. Fire is also common imagery used in the bible in relation to testing. 3) There is some stuff I have seen about going to hell without knowing why and I want to cover that a little bit here with this final point. Lucifer has a title in the bible meaning acuser, I belive satan the title that means this but it might be one of the others like devil etc., as he is the one that recounts your sins before God at judgement. 3.1) The bible also states that Lucifer is also getting sent to hell as punishment to him for his sins.
The comparison between jail and hell is one i have thought about a lot, and it can go further as well if you think about the idea of salvation held to in many denominations, because on top of the pure retributive approach, there is also the fact that in the prison system some people avoid any punishment because of *money money* while others are persecuted for things they didnt even do, while in denominations that arent works focused you will find that often there is a belief that even a figure like hitler could be in heaven, while a person simply being gay gets them insta-hell, and so in both the divine and physical systems there is blatant issues with miscarriage of justice and a freedom from punishment provided to some for reasons that arent even often entirely within their control. (for anyone unfamiliar, works based is a facet of christian belief systems in which acceptance into heaven and condemnation to hell is based on what you actually do and have done) Hope my rambling makes sense, and that everyone has a wonderful day!
My take on the afterlife is informed by a few different things that I've read I never was a religious person but I've always loved myths and legends but the main things that influence my thinking are the depiction of the Great Spirit in Shaman King, the book The 5 People You Meet In Heaven, and the short story called The Egg which all fundamentally come bakck to the idea that when you pass on you return to the collective of ALL experience at which point you completely understand your place in it without ego
Hope I'm not too late to the party, but I'll throw in my two cents. The Eastern Orthodox view of Heaven and Hell is a little bit different from the western Catholic or Protestant view, as in the Orthodox tradition Hell, Satan, and Death were all destroyed when Jesus died and then returned on the third day. Thus, 'Hell' doesn't really exist, and the only place where God's love cannot reach an individual doesn't exist either. What happens after one dies, then, is a bit more complex. The Orthodox view God as more of an entity or a force, rather than a big white guy in the sky (hence why no Orthodox Icons ever depict God in a human form) the idea is that after you die, you join with this force or entity we label God, and if you were a good person, being surrounded by all the light in the world will probably feel great. Being a morally indecent person, however, will probably cause a lot of pain after being revealed to the unbridled 'truth,' at least until said person grows accustomed or accepts that truth. So then, good people join with 'God' after death and experience 'Heaven,' and bad people join with 'God' and experience a 'Hell,' at least until they learn to accept and embrace 'God's love.'
I like to think that the issue of resentment can be read as a feature, not a bug of biblical hell. When I think about the demons that exist in hell and who torment humans, I see them as former humans, consumed by resentment and anger towards mankind and God to the point where they have given up their humanity to perpetual exact vengeance on those who have wronged them. Putting that reading back into real world context, I don't think it's hard to see how punitive justice (Hell) turns people into anti-social antagonists (demons) towards whatever our society perceives as virtuous (God).
Consider if it were a bluff (just hell). What would that knowledge do to your character, your moral capabilities? From that point forward anything good you do or any sacrifice you make can just be attributed to your knowledge that everything is fine. So what I think people fear most is being content. Contentness and death are equally feared because they are the same thing.
Christianity has the middle ground of purgatory, either as a neutral ground of no torture nor bliss or as a waiting period where one “purifies the spirit” before reaching final judgment, but even there it works on the questionable assumption that suffering is inherently improving to one’s spiritual ethical state. There are some modern scholars that argue the concept of hell has no biblical basis and is an extension that was added with churches. I’m not Christian myself, but the focus on eternal value through eternal life might be the issue. We do have an intuitive need for actions and their judgement to sustain their values, we feel it’s dishonest to praise someone for doing one thing at one time, and then chastise them for that same specific action on another, and thus we want to have judgements which will be worth maintaining in general, but I’d argue in order to avoid the paranoia of unworthiness for eternal existence explicated in the conception of eternal torture vs eternal bliss in heaven and hell, we need to either outgrow the concept of the same mind maintaining itself beyond death, or evolve beyond the Christian obsession of recompensing eternal guilt when people aim to improve themselves from what they were. The whole prison abolition concept relies on rejecting the retributive justice in the name of aiming for betterment of all people. If we do strive for that goal, rejecting the historically common theological excuse for the retributive attitude, that suffering purifies the soul from its misdeeds and pays for temporary suffering in eternal bliss, is a necessary act. We may want to partially accept that in improvement, the self may come to recognise their past actions as in conflict with their new ethical commitments and thus suffer from it, but recognising that such suffering may be a byproduct of improvement and not a necessary measure to achieve it may help disentangle the Christian short circuiting of the ethical process. Sorry for rambling abit, your associative style inspired some associative thoughts of my own around the subjects
It seems to me that you assume the biblical idea of justice would align with a rehabilitative idea. I feel like it’s very not. H ell is punishment for the sake of punishment. I don’t think it’s meant to be helpful, maybe it’s to enforce the hegemony of god
I agree that punishment in Abrahamic religions or other religions that focus on a Hell existing is not a great way to lure people to the religion. I grew up in Evangelical Christian churches and while I never believed, the constant fear-mongering did leave a mark for a long time. I was afraid to be myself or like certain things. I'm an atheist and while I'm not spiritual at all, if I had to choose a belief system I would lean toward reincarnation--something that values learning from your faults and having another go at life.
To further expand on this, when I was younger-having grown up in a Christian household-I’d ask questions about the Bible and usually when no one could answer the response would be something along the lines of “you can’t question God”. Which was always sus as fuck to me, cause if that’s the case then what’s the point of the entire Bible. That aside, when this is correlated to ideas of rehabilitation and justice the message kinda becomes even darker-cause now you’re liable to be punished even if you don’t fully understand that you’re sinning/breaking the law. Imagine right, you do your bestest to live a good life and then when you die God’s like “it’s a no from me”-no explanation, just hellfire. And in Ghanaian Churches, from what I see around me, a lot of Christians internalize this and kinda take everything their pastor says as kosher without any real analysis.
Check out the Ear Hustle the podcast interview show made by prisoners in San Quinton prison. They have 92 episodes and even do prisons all over the country now that one of the producers got out of prison. They do everything from people owning pets and doing magic card game duels to how hard it is to raise a family from within prison or even start one while inside. You can even talk to them on socials and could even interview them if they have time for it.
Forewarning that I might make a handful of comments because theological concepts and discussion are fascinating to me. 5:35 This to me rings of the concept of the atman in Hinduism overall, but especially Advaita Vedanta(non-dualism). In certain strands of Hinduism the soul is perceived as this kind of true being, a kind of true self beyond the self we know. The idea that this true self could shed its mortal body and slip into another while still being as it is, is the entire mechanism by which the idea of reincarnation(and unfortunately the ethnic caste system) runs. In Advaita Vedanta the soul itself is not really seen as fundamentally different from god in any way. Non-dualism: as in there are not two separate divine essences. In a sense it could be said the sum of humanity's Atman is in and of itself God or Brahma.
Good vid Generally what was described to me is hell in concept and the punishment sin carries isn’t direct. Instead it’s reflective of your relationship with God. The further away from God you are the worse life generally tends to get. Hell is the true separation from God once you die and refuse to rehabilitate while on earth. Spiritually speaking our time on earth is our spiritual rehabilitation where we learn, heal, and become stronger spiritually with him. The reason why the concept of jail might not fully fit is even God recognized how screwed up humanity has gotten and his prophets were wrongfully jailed and misjudged and even murdered because of evil people in the world who failed to understand their warnings.
Most of my childhood, I was a dumb kid who didn’t really think about it as much more than it is what is, you know. Then, when I was around 14, a teacher told me and my class about Purgatory. To me, that reflects my views on people and the world. Hell is representing the purest of evil, Heaven is the good and Purgatory is for the majority of humanity that are just in- between. Taking that into account, there are only a select few beings that deserve such torment as Hell and that, as a general rule barring certain exceptions, people should be given a fair chance at redemption.
I think the best concept of hell comes from the original sandman series. As the people who go and stay there, only do if they truly believe they belong there. It’s even twist reveal that anyone can leave hell anytime they want, but nobody really tries and only leave when Lucifer tells everyone to go because he’s ready to leave as well and start a new life. Hell is portrayed as more of a place for people to have a pity party for their heinous sins and to give the illusion of judgment and punishment.
I think there’s something interesting in how vague a lot of the things people say about Hell is. It’s rare for someone to take pleasure in a specific person suffering in hell for an eternity and say that that is justified. But the vague idea of hell is pretty popular because it satisfies a need for justice in people. I don’t think that the worst person is beyond improvement and redemption no matter what they have done. There is a idea that because heaven and hell is a binary and there is no way back once your condemned to Hell that you might as well be as bad as you want to be, but that ignores that what makes something bad isn’t necessarily the pain is caused you, but the harm you inflict on others. The idea of hell transfers the pain you cause others on to yourself making you more personally invested in treating other people well. Another thing is that God to me is or is a representation of what is true, not good about the world and in this life you can do things that can’t be walked back from. Or are never going to be forgiven by the people around you. You can be better, but you might never stop facing the consequences of your action. I typed this out half way through the video so hopefully you don’t say anything I wrote lol.
The core experiences of psychological trauma are disempowerment and disconnection from others. Recovery, therefore, is based upon the empowerment of the survivor and the creation of new connections. *Recovery can take place only within then context of relationships; it cannot occur in isolation.* In her renewed connection with other people, the survivor re-creates the psychological facilities that were damaged or deformed by the traumatic experience. These faculties include the basic operations of trust, autonomy, initiative, competence, identity, and intimacy. Just as these capabilities are formed in relationships with other people, they must be reformed in such relationships. The first principle of recovery is empowerment of the survivor. She must be the author and arbiter of her own recovery. Others may offer advice, support, assistance, affection , and care, but not cure. Many benevolent and well-intentioned attempts to assist the survivor founder because this basic principle of empowerment is not observed. No intervention that takes power away from the survivor can possibly foster her recovery, no matter how much it appears to be in her immediate best interest. In the words of one incest survivor, “Good therapists were those who really valued my experience, and helped me to control my behavior rather than trying to control me.” Caregivers schooled in a medical model of treatment often have difficulty grasping this fundamental principle, and putting it into practice. In exceptional circumstances, where the survivor has totally abdicated responsibility for her own self-care or threatens immediate harm to herself or to others, rapid intervention is required with or without her consent. But even then, there is no need for unilateral action; the survivor should still be consulted about her wishes and offered as much choice as is compatible with the preservation of safety... ... Recovery unfolds in three stages. The central task of the first stage is the establishment of safety. The central task of the second stage is remembrance and mourning. The central focus of the third stage is reconnection with ordinary life. " Judith Herman
I wish Religious people were easier to talk to they’re always talking about pleasing God when nobody I know has meant the guy. I’m teenager and my mom is an atheist while my step dad is religious, I don’t know if I should believe in God or I shouldn’t. God confuses and scares me I don’t wanna burn forever because I didn’t get it.
Universalists like myself don't believe in eternal conscious torment. If there is any suffering in the afterlife it is a gorm of self-afflicted suffering as part of the growth/purification process that makes us capable of full communion. It's seeing ourselves accurately and finally facing all the ways we hurt ourselves and others - the pain of embracing our best selves and forgiving ourselves and each other. This pain is temporary, and not a form of punishment, but merely a consequence of needed growth.
That's totally a parallel I see. I don't think much about spirits because I identify heavily with my body after transitioning and learning to love myself through my body (different story lol), but I certainly hang on the thought that someone who never will face consequences for their actions in the legal will face some consequences SOMEHOW. It's comforting to think of some karmic retribution even tho I know that's not very anarchist or cool of me maybe...
Religions have laws that we follow so we can stay in a certain type of spirit there are bad things people can do that peels that spirit or can change who they are as a person. As long as you keep up certain religious values(and/or at least ask for forgiveness) Eternal rewards can still be yours. While we are still here we can change but death is are actual END for the lives we had and choices we made while we here. So ain’t no going back after death by that time you have passed or failed. Maybe there is something after the after for redemption but I’d rather be worried about that when I’m dead.
The fact that you are able to think of more compassionate ways of dealing with spiritual healing, than the major religions, is just an example of how terrible religions are. You are cool storyteller!
Religions are belief systems, organized religion with monetary incentive to control people, especially through fear, is where it gets realllly sketchy imo
In terms of rehabilitation, look at systems in Scandinavia. It's interesting, but relinquishing punishment to a degree is necessary for the healing of society that rehab for criminality gives. People still operate with a mindset which demands revenge and suffering for those which wrong them criminally, not forgiveness. Not blaming them, it is a very naturally human reaction in many circumstances. Justice is really in many ways a social construct created to systemize punishment, such that blood feuds are avoided. In taking responsibility for punishment from group revenge to a societal structure, it maintains stability of social groups by protecting escalating degrees of violent retribution, to a point. It is a historically necessary measure for successful large agricultural groups to develop in order to survive. These conditions are historically where the bases of modern monotheistic religion were birthed. An eye for an eye is better than murdering 3 family members of someone who killed you cousin, who in turn kills 5 of your fam etc... These societies used religious doctrines and stories as a way fo communicating these rules and morals, and developing a shared conception of meaning and defined perceptions of reality. A common frame for people to use to relate and collaborate with each other. In the end if the victims we're not satiated in the suffering of a perpetrator, retribution would be enacted and still birth blood feuds etc. Therefore modern judicial systems operate in the paradigm of enacting punitive suffering upon those condemned, as the underlining ideological cause and justified with historically necessary need for ensuring stability of societies. This is engrained in the theology of our core religions, as authority comes from god, with the responsibility to maintain a stable status quo and direct a subjugated populaces lives through oppression of individual freedom to fit in the confines of a functioning larger community. The scale of this has increased sooo much the complexity of social issues arising from engrained mechanisms of operating is truly abhorrent. There is no black and white, arguably physical heaven and hell per say, truly, yet the dogma is so engrained in human thought it lives there, and is real. Heaven and hell is in my perception the sides of humanity, and the reality you face based on the side of human nature your circumstances reside. Finding spiritual solace is an individual moral duty and driving force in life, and organized spirituality will always engrain the individual in a dogma which serves to control them to fit into a group. In having answers to philosophical questions told to you you avoid the existential strife of formulating your own spiritual conception of life, in exchange for a degree of control of your internal reality you give to the authority. This fulfils a need for tribe as well. Unfortunately many ways, groupthink is unavoidable and society functions more on base instincts from ages past than rational decision making for the greater good. Sorry this is an essay, it is my personal take only, yet I believe it is fairly informed and hope my perceptions interest someone. Open for discourse or rebuttals. Great video 👌
I'm not exactly sure if it's true but I've heard (haven't read) that the Christian faith lays out that those who enter "heaven" will be given a chance to allow all those in hell to be allowed in heaven but this must be unanimous. So the real question even for myself, a spiritual person whose "antiprison", but also revels in seeing those who've done wrong punished is would I vote to let them in. And does anyone who doesn't make that vote really deserve their place there. I don't know though I'm just a mortal man.
i know this might be daunting so please just read this first paragraph if nothing else. I feel a lot of your thoughts and questions are lead by misconceptions of the Bible and what Christians should believe. I would suggest looking up the Bible project and Tim Mackie’s (one of the Bible projects co creators) rotten tomatoes series. I think you’ll be surprised as to what he says about Heaven, hell, Justice, and a bunch of other things. Legit just look up the topic you’re curious about on UA-cam and type in either the Bible project or Tim mackie. I might be long winded here so let me preface this by saying if you even do read this then simply read this part and research for yourself what I’ve just said. If I your ear then by all means continue and I will debunk some misconceptions I think you have about Christian doctrines. First and foremost this one might surprise you as some professing Christians believe this and they don’t even know they’re wrong but it’s that these bodies e we inhabit don’t matter because we’re going to end up spiritual beings anyways. This is actually false doctrine and is actually a concept brought up by the gnostics. Long story short no Christians should not believe that mind body and soul are separate. All of this is one whole to a person. And though mired and ravaged and dead it may one day become Christianity teaches that one day these dead rotten bones will be raised up again and given new life. How do I know this? We’l look no further than Christ. This is what the Bible means by firstfruits. The firstborn/ fruits is Christ and one day we follow along in his example. This doesn’t make us God btw so let’s not get that part twisted for those tempted to believe this lol. And this leads to my next segway. What is Heaven you might ask? Well Christians should believe that it’s a lot more down to earth. Literally. Christian doctrine teaches Heaven isn’t pie in the sky but rather a full joining of Heaven and earth. This is the true Heaven. And just like our bodies this earth too will be resurrected in newness. Not just the earth but also the whole universe. I’m sorry to say guys but God is not going to burn everything up to a crisp. He’s going to make it new. So Christian if you are reading this it would do you some good to follow in our example of our God and tend to his creation better. Because He doesn’t like it when we ravage his creation either. In regards to your questions of justice in the Bible and in everyday life you brought up the concept of hell. And I found it funny how you stated that if you were to end up in hell you’d be all the more resentful and angry rather than sorrowful or regretful. And that’s funny to me because that’s exactly what the Bible teaches about people that end up in hell. I won’t get too deep into this but the Bible is very symbolic in regards to hell. I will say this I believe there’s a hell and I believe it’s much worse than described in the Bible. But what’s strange is the paradox of there being fire and yet it’s still dark. I won’t go any further but I think you might get what I’m trying to say. If not then please reply as I don’t wanna waste more time typing something you might not read lol If you Storyteller (David) or anyone else reads this and is interested in more or would like to debate me on these topics feel free to comment below. But I would rather recommend you look up the resources I told you about in the preface as I am no theologian just a man who parrots talking points from theologians lol have a good day y’all 👍
What if our souls are just griss in a mill, and the suffering of earth and hell is meant to grind us down into a fine powder to get the quintessence inside all of us? It's not divine justice, it's a cosmic harvest.
In Judaïsm the concept of hell doesn't actually exist. Once you die that is it. The concept of hell is not even a biblical description but more of a catholic one where several passages are fused together into one idea, and then devellopped in Catholic fanfiction (Dante's inferno comes to mind). The idea that life exists after as a divine version of the living probably translated to how we view life. Those righteous live life without guilt or punishment while those who do crime are punished. And so the afterlife has to be the same and more? It's hard to really grasp what that means. That doesn't even take into account the ideas of rebirth and how only living the most virtuous of self do you ascend, otherwise you relive life in some different form (this from someone who is not fully versed in Hinduism or Hindu Buddism). This ramble I guess to setup that, the culture and how we view death as either punisment, relief, or more of just life also reflects how we view punishment now. I honestly think you got something with the idea of prisons in life and hell being all too similar and how we (societally) can be okay with throwing people away to be forgotten as they are to be punished, in the same way that we are totally okay with how we forget or deal with the harm they dealt because they are now going to be punished and be forgotten
im going to have to deep dive in the bible again. ive never really interpreted the concept of hell not being a biblical description. but i would not be surprised at this considering catholic traditions have tried to harmonize certain passages to make a uniform message. example would be the seven dying words that try to make jesus say everything on the cross said in all 4 gospels despite these 4 narratives being written for different audiences, and jesus has attitudes n expressions that are incompatible with each other in the sense of trying to combine everything he said on the cross across the gosepls. i also vaguely remember hearing bart erhman say Jesus wouldnt have believed in a hell, especially as a jewish rabbi, would have promoted other things
For the punishment in hell thing, isn't the Jewish Gehinnom like spirit rehab? As far as I understand it the souls in there are supposed to be cleaned there
This is an interesting discussion. Im a Christian but I have always interpreted heaven and hell not as the consumerist versions you see in media but moves of mental states aswwell. For instance if you were to have everything you ever desired granted to you you'd hate it because there is no value to anything as everything becomes meaningless. I feel as though heaven is somewhat of a state of nirvana you where you separate yourself from your material desires. Hell being the absence of god to where you're overtaken by your own self indulgences to the point where it controls you. Atleast that's my interpretation.
I’m with you on people manifest they own spirituality based off zodiac signs n such, but I believe if you join a religion then you choose to have your spirit judged by specific laws acknowledging there’s something bigger that has keys to an extended lifetime in spirit if you hold up certain values. I don’t like how it’s weaponized either because it is a personal spiritual journey that everyone is on if so they believe it. Some want people focused on their after life while they just want to focus on the right now, that’s okay with me but obviously not established religions
I recommend you read “The Divine Comedy” it is one of or if not THE MOST interesting concept of the afterlife(as far as Christianity goes) but it’s long as hell. I just watched a guy break it down on UA-cam I wish i could remember his name but it’s something like wendigon or something it really gives the afterlife…life. The books a W.
This is a great video, but I do wonder, if you could, what would you do with the people that are the most generators of pain and suffering in this world, yk like politicians, the rich, etc. What would you do to them if no punishment was involved? The people that create this idea of punishment/hell, how would you judge them without using their created idea of retribution.
I apologize for the long comment but I really think the concept of disciplining for rehabilitation vs outright punishment is interesting and I think there are a lot of parallels between that concept and this discussion. What I mean is that as humans our line for the proverbial "point of no return" differs just like our perception what makes a person deserving hell differs. For example I think we would all agree a one time thief can be redeemed and rehabilitated especially if there circumstances are also an indictment on society. On that front then yeah jail as currently constituted is a terrible rehabilitation tool. But let's say their was a societal equivalent to a payer, confess and repent system in our society, would that be the rehabilitation tool we need. Well doesn't religion have that? Conversely I that we agree that it would be really hard to believe the shooter in the Buffalo mass murder and other mass murderers are redeemable so should jail for them serve as that punishment for reaching that point of no return? I think that punishment for the point of no return kinda what hell is conceived as. I think the concept of hell is religion's way of saying you had your chance to rehabilitate (through confession, going to your local place of worship, repenting that behaviour) but you ignored it and have reached the point of no return. Obviously that them branches in the conversation of what is the point of no return. Also is hell that the right thing to do for people even if we deem them irredeemable. Even from a rehabilitation perspective I think we would have to ask that if the prayer and repent system is the right rehabilitation system in religion given this system has the obvious hole of being abused by both the punisher and the punished. It's something I have a lot of thoughts on but this comment is long enough. I don't know if that made sense or if this was a weird stream of consciousness lol but those are my thoughts. Big fan of your videos and I think the new editing style works, it's like a short form podcast.
I might be late, but Hell is more so described as a lake of fire. When you "go to hell" your not really going to hell, your being wiped from existence. There is no eternal punishment. Im not a perfect christian or anything like that. But this is roughly what Hell really is.
The Jail concept made me think of *Dead Leaves* an anime film that touches on being imprisoned without your memory (it's a sci-fi action comedy though)
I believe the lord is forgiving, and I think those that are in hell can be lifted from it. I think then if the lord is forgiving I must do similar actions and be forgiving of others, as he was forgiving himself. But that's my opinion
The idea of Hell feels illogical. If God (in the Christian sense) is love, then why would he ever forsake anyone? Allow them to suffer forever? So either God is loving and there is no Hell, or God is not loving and people do suffer eternally. Of course that's just what we're told to believe. So, what other options are out there? That's why I love studying other spiritualities and religions, to learn about those other perspectives.
As a queer Christian you kinda have to reshape a lot of your views about religion in order to still feel connected. The conclusion I came to is that God made me this way, so of course he loves me. Another thing I think is noteworthy is as important as the bible is to us, it was still written by a man, not directly from God himself, so it will carry the biases of all its writers. I've had to lie my whole life for various reasons because sometimes a lie means safety, and I could never imagine God seeing that as being just as bad as the people who made me feel unsafe. I have a lot of complicated feelings about forgiveness, but I've always seen hell as the kind of place people who've never let others know peace and never repented for it would go (r*pists, serial killers) I think other people like people of different religions or atheists or people who have done harm, but want to improve and be kinder people are welcome. Like you said everyone's relationship to God is different and this is how I feel about it
@@PaintedHoundie I mean, yeah? Homophobia/transphobia/aphobia is not exclusive to christians but it is perpetuated by a lot of them As of right now, I do not have support but christianity isn't the majority religion where I live either, so idk how much it affects things since most religious people I've met have biases
Whenever I watch your spiritual videos I wonder if you’ve ever explored Catholic theology and if not I feel like you’d find a lot more to engage with. There actually is a rehabilitation in the afterlife: purgatory. To understand the existence of hell you need what flannery Conner described as a theological view of the human person. God is the source of all goodness and life; God breathes life into the dust of our bodies. He desires to love us for all eternity willing salvation for all, but he does not impose that on us. We choose if we want to be United to God or separate: heaven and hell respectively. You may object that one ought to be given a chance to see what hell is like, and that is what one gets when they meditate on their own death. An honestly charitable exhortation to fear the Lord is meant to help one remember a terrifying reality that is so tempting to forget: life wholly separated from God. That is why flannery O’Connor ends the short story “a good man is hard to find” with the line “she would’ve been good if she had a gun pointed at her everyday of her life.” True Catholic justice is rehabilitative. That is why pope Francis stated that the death penalty is not admissible when the convict can be detained without posing a threat to society.
@@jakeblaydes7283 sure ! Well for me what I liked about Catholicism is the whole idea of spiritual rehabilitation or purgatory. The concept of god recognising that you messed up and you did good in some areas and people interceding for you is beautiful. I also like the values of charity and how at least growing up in the church I’ve seen it done ALOT. Another thing I like is the concept of saints. That they are different saints for different aspects Of life and their stories. The practice of confession is also good. Having the ability to have someone to give you direction and it’s accessibility is nice considering therapy is expensive and not as accessible. Not to compare but it helps people get some direction. These are a few I can think of at the top of my head
Thoughts on the new style?
I have a video recorded about this, but I wanted to try out making videos in a different style because I've been so buried in work that finding time to edit over the top video essays isn't going to work moving forward. I'll still make them, but I understand that people want content AND quietly I want to try something new. So, kick back, listen, engage and vibe with me.
Raise your mic volume. I don't know if it's like, the atmosphere or whatever, but I've never had this hearing issue with your other videos.
@@emptyaccount9647 Noted.
I don't have any complaints, and I enjoy the format!
I like the style, a mix of this and (when it can be managed) the classic style would make for a really cool vibe to the channel imo, only real concern would just be echoing the volume.
@@TheStorytellerAJ late as all hell but man you should read "The Genealogy of Morals" it really goes into this stuff
This feels like a high convo with a friend. But I’m just being parasocial. Good vid
see thats the energy we want
That’s why I love the idea of us all creating your own spiritual beliefs without organized religion. Or looking to society for approval on our beliefs because society is largely manipulated. This society has a system of manipulation and cognitive dissonance built to keep rich white men in power, they were able to create a system that attacked peoples beliefs in every section of their lives. The more I learn about my ancestors and the world history before imperialism the more I learn just how rigged this all seems to be.
Because I know many of us have been converted to religions they forced our ancestors to believe in, I believe the way for us to find our spiritual guidance is to look within. Looking within yourself is such a radical concept because the rich rely on our need for social connection to destroy our confidence in our own intuition independent of those around us. This shit is like the matrix and the way out is to each become Neo.
I really appreciated this. I’ve never heard the connection between restorative justice vs the heaven/hell dynamic
The Good Place hits upon this idea of the afterlife quite well, there’s a point system of good deeds and bad deeds ****Spoilers***** and under the system of capitalism no one could realistically get into heaven. Even the ones who do become numb with boredom with all their needs and desires immediately met. It hits well on the idea of infinite punishment for finite crimes(whether it be murder or stealing, worshiping a false god, etc) and a lot of people got better after they died which called the system into question even more. *****
What resonated was the idea of being by default doomed to hell.
I’m well accustomed to this, being gay this was a constant thing to think about, and looking back the homophobic nature of some sermons my pastor made, pushed me away from religion. A constant question I always had but could never ask is if God made me gay and if so why am I being told I shouldn’t be?
While I don’t dismiss the idea of a higher power, the idea of hell always seemed to be more of a control mechanism and a way to separate the heathens from the anointed.
I think religion gives people a moral leg to stand on to attack those they deem immoral, the same way laws do, lawbreaker/criminal/thug are not terms of endearment.
Religion can condition one to accept that immoral deeds should be punished but like laws, what’s considered immoral can be very arbitrary.
Hiya. I have a pretty similar upbringing to you. When I was surrounded by homophobic rhetoric, I questioned the function of religion a lot. I think it’s for purpose
You can find purpose in the roles set out for you along with the community that is based around them. When you have that sense of purpose, it comes with a sense that you *should* fulfill it. I don’t thing religion’s moral code is an attempt at justice-but that it’s a rationalization of the sense that there is a ~should~
I definitely agree with your last paragraph. As you pointed out with the good place, The concept of heaven and hell doesn’t actually work well with human condition and nature. Because of the way people pick which sins are important to them and which they’re more lenient with, I don’t think moral codes created heaven and hell. It’s born from the need to rationalize the feeling that people should act one way.
This is mirrored in laws and punishment like first and second degree murder. Someone murdering with intent vs out of passion are about as likely to murder again, but we punish a murderer’s premeditation because it’s scary. From that fear, we decide that the reason for our fear is that a person with intent is dangerous. Laws and religious morality look to me like a rationalization of an intuitive sense of right & wrong
Growing up Hindu and going to Catholic schools made me an atheist because of how punitive most of what I was taught is, very little about personal or spiritual development. It's only now getting into more leftist circles that I've seen religious people who understand that what we practice on this planet needs to be communal, revolutionary, and rehabilitative.
There are people on both sides of the political spectrum that believe in building up the kingdom. I am fortunate enough to have to have found a church that focuses on education and spiritual development. I am aware that there are many many fakes out there tho. Also i dont think there is nothing wrong with occasionally thinking about the negative impacts of your actions if that is not the only thing you do
Well, in Japanese Bhuddism, there are 270+ realms in the after life and you get sent to one of then depending on what crimes or wrongs you did yhe most that were severe. You suffer for however many years, decades or centuries Enma, emperor of hell, thinks you deserve and then after you "finish your sentence" you get the chance to be reincarnated and hopefully do better in your next life.
Or, something like that.
For example, there's a realm of hell where people get ripped apart by animals forever, if they were cruel to animals in life.
You are definitely not alone in your thoughts about this. I started questioning the concept of eternal damnation as an early teen. I had a morbid curiosity of cult leaders and SKs back then and wondered how people become extremely antisocial. One thing that most of them had in common was CB and repeated victimization. That’s not just a personal/familial problem, it’s a societal problem.
I wondered how could someone be punished forever for behaviors that are a result of being hurt badly or mental illness. It just didn’t feel right to me, and I went through a period of agnosticism before coming to my current spiritual identity.
Thank you for your vulnerability and courage to discuss this topic. Growth comes when we use critical thinking to reevaluate what we’ve been taught and decide if those beliefs are no longer serving us.
I would recommend looking into the concept of universal reconciliation. Its a concept that aligns far more with my beliefs in rehabilitation as opposed to punitive justice like the heaven hell dynamic does
Nice hearing your thoughts on spiritual subjects even if I'm a non-beliver. Especially in context of your creative process.
I always had conflicting feelings about that binary framing of the afterlife in Christianity for various reasons but the two main ones being:
1. God is portrayed as a petty, vengeful, and jealous deity in many ways which completely contradicts the omniscient, understanding and merciful qualities that he's supposed to have in abundance.
2. You can't convince me that a thief who stole money and food to feed their family in hard times will burn for eternity while the r*pists, m*rderers and corrupt authorities get a free pass to paradise if they chose to repent at the 11th hour. I'm pretty sure God is infinitely wise and knows who is a bad person without needing his ego stroked, so haphazardly sending souls to eternal torture over some bread and coin purses but letting worse things go by unchecked cause he got a shout out and the perpetrator donated to the church seems like something a narcissistic politician would do rather than an someone of immeasurable wisdom and morality would do. How do you give the same punishment to un-baptized babies that you would a man who killed people for fun?
The further you look into it, the more the whole things looks and sounds like a pyramid scheme with some bribery, blackmail and extortion for flavour.
1. In the old testament, the metaphor of God being jealous used in the bible is suppose to relate the relationship between God and israel to a relationship between a married person and their partner that cant help but sleep around. The reason why the worship of other gods is a problem is because the moral and actions that the israelites have agreed to uphold end up getting sidelined and things such as welfare and not doing human sacrifices stop being a thing.
2. The original word for repent meant "to turn away" so if u stole something felt bad for it and actively do whatever u can do to not steal ur fine.
Meanwhile in matthew 7:22, the bible depicts that just because you say that you repent doesnt mean that God will not judge whether or u have truly repented and changed as a person.
What exactly goes on in hell is in a rather hot topic of debate amoungst biblical scholars to this day. honestly i never cared much since its gonna suck alot anyways
I really hope the afterlife is like The Good Place 🙂
The criminal justice system in Ireland and the UK and probably North America actually works very well at what it's supposed to do, which os maintain the status quo through generations
I remember long ago someone told me something about the Bible says Hell is not actually an eternal punishment where you're there for eternity. Eventually God will save all souls. Don't think I've ever read anything like that in the Bible though. As far as the binary of Heaven is a reward, Hell is a punishment, I've never really thought much of it just because of what I was taught about how to interpret Christian spirituality vs how I viewed it as someone who's been Agnostic for as long I can remember. Like, I was raised to be Catholic. I was baptized at 6, and my uncle who was chosen to be my godfather gifted me a bible. I've rarely read it, but I've picked it up a few times. All throughout this version of the Bible is commentary written by a theological scholar. At the beginning of Genesis they speak of how Genesis is mostly a creation myth meant to teach a morale lesson, and not something to be taken literally, as historical fact. They reason that all that God has to tell us they have spoken clearly and simply, so that there can be no room for misinterpretation of the wisdom they're trying to impart on the Human race. What is vague should not be taken to heart in the same way as what is clear. But what I've been taught by those around me was that every word has a message for us. God wants us to learn something from everything that is said. So, when you read something like the Book of Revelations, it's all extremely vague in what it's saying. Very heavy on symbolism. The events can be made to fit any period in History, which they have been. And nothing said seems like any sort of clear, concrete declaration by God. It's a dream of the prophet who wrote it. The people around me would have me believe that God wants us to decode the message to prepare for the end times, but the biblical scholar providing their commentary said it's vague, so the message isn't as important as something like what Jesus had to say. With that in mind, it formed this concept of Heaven and Hell in my mind that the end of the World and Hell is the consequences of never stopping to correct our destructive impulses. The Earth itself is our Garden of Eden, but a wealthy and powerful few are destroying it, and our chance at Heaven with it. Hell is the consequence of us letting the planet die, so that a few can enrich themselves beyond their wildest dreams. Basically, the Book of Revelations in my mind became a call to revolutionary action, and Heaven is what we could have if we heed that call. Rather than Heaven and Hell being some other dimensions we're sent to based on how righteous we were following the path of God after we've died in this world. The Bible itself has messaging that can be considered both revolutionary and counter-revolutionary. Not really an answer to the question you posed, but it's how I conceptualized Heaven and Hell as someone who is Agnostic.
thats a really cool interpretation!
as a lifelong atheist, the way people interpret religious texts is so fascinating to me because you can take it in literally any direction.
anyways: this idea is really cool, im probably gonna be thinking about it all day now
im drinking water right now! thanks storyteller!
Well, it makes sense that Hell is like prison given that they're both poorly thought out systems of retributive "justice."
Very insightful comments, and yes, our religious systems have always influenced our punishments.
New to your channel, came here from FD's and cause I crave Boondocks content. This is my first video of yours outside of that and I love it. This, honestly, is the real fucking question. When it comes to actually helping people, getting them to open up, being there with them even in their worst times, and then making them into... happy people. I think it's possible, but our descriptions of heaven and hell, and the ideologies that follow, limit us in our ability. I'd also add that the US penal system is particularly bad, and I blame the Puritans, who were all about suffering=redemption cause ur trash.
Buddhism is interesting in this regard because Buddhist hells are about a lack of awareness and control. The karma you build up leads you to an existence of blind want, grasping but never holding. To be a little higher up as an animal means you live a life in a higher realm, but you are beholden to impulses and are unlikely to be reborn in a higher place. Even Gods in Buddhism don't live forever, and their existence is marred by indifference due to there being no real stakes for them. Humans, on the other hand, are lucky in that we can choose, we can change, and we can understand our actions and the effects they have. I'd say we even have the science to support just... giving the people the help they need rather than condemning them, but as a society we're still pretty afraid of trusting the humanity of others.
I think it's interesting that in Eastern faiths like Buddhism, BOTH heaven and hell are temporary residences for the spirit., because these places are reflections of our mortal, earthly ideas of what rewards and punishments are. As spiritual beings, achieving true enlightenment, and atonement with the universe, means transcending these concepts entirely.
I also find it interesting that this idea has also beenexplored in Western Christian thought too. I'd recommend checking out Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy, not just as exploration of divine justice/punishment, but as an early entry into the canon of prison literature.
I also love how people say ”our life on earth is like a test to see where u go” like bitch what so I have to go to hell for an eternity after 80 or so years of living on earth? Why can’t we just exist and learn and vibe in the afterlife?
I think interesting biblical concept is viewing God as our father, and then looking at themes like the banishment from eden, punishment, trying to earn our love and prove we’re good enough, etc.
i really enjoyed the show lucifer for these concepts as i feel like it did a good job of relating christianity to humanity. it goes into the whole divine family and their dysfunctionality and suggests alternatives. there's a lot of other things that happen in the show, but i feel they did a good job of representing christianity with respectful scrutiny and criticism.
i grew up christian, but the more i actually thought about the afterlife, the less it made sense to me as no matter which place you go to, you'd eventually get used to it and eventually bored. yeah, pain hurts, but i wouldn't really consider it "suffering" because you can become accustomed to pain. i've never really feared pain in life so much as i fear any permanent damage that may be a result of it. and if people ar to "eternally suffer" with no way out of it, then they would probably just give-up and deal with it eventually. people would just get used to it.
this also lead me to think about whether we even have souls and the way i see it, we're just an amalgamation of all of that was put into us, including the matter that makes our bodies as well as the information we absorb. we feel we have "souls" because we are too complex to understand every detail about ourselves and it's really just a way of explaining the inconceivable and that's how i see religion as a whole now. it's all just a way of rationalizing our unfathomable universe in a simpler way. the universe has certain rules it uses to maintain it's balance and we've fabricated our morals based on a lot of them. most people would say that theft is "bad" but the universe doesn't really care so much as you "pay" in some other way. all life must take from other life forms or the environment to live and survive, we're technically taking oxygen out of the air each time we breathe. but we also give back gases that other organisms can use so we're also contributing through output. it's also important to note that "good" doesn't always beget good and "bad" doesn't always beget bad.
what is "good" and "bad" are just man-made concepts to generalize what we think the universe (or whatever power that governs it) wants out of us, but is also usually tainted by our own desires in some way.
it's all based on our perception of the world.
Love this more casual approach! Especially if it's less strenuous on you.
My main story deals with three main themes: Souls (Spirit and having’Spirit’ to be exact , Death and Destiny.) But since I tend to not like heaven/hell cosmology in all my stories due to my orientation. I use reincarnation for my death mechanism and divine judgment is more akin to a semi-hands off model, in which rebirth and birth ‘just is’
Plus I don’t like the idea of being in hell. For obvious reasons. I technically have afterlives in my fictional notes but I dont associate them with heaven and hell.
Also, this new style? I like it but was it pre recorded? I could be high but It feels like a livestream lol😳💜
Also Spirit thankfully pretty culturally neutral. I also like the idea of ‘divine destiny or power’ not ‘divine judgement’ so I personally substitute the two.
Edit: Early cuz professional bell presser (youtube addict lol) Be sure to ring that fucking 🛎
ring the bell fr, don't violate me
Question, so how do you explore predestined fate & destiny vs/alongside choices? And part 2 is add the the fact that you explore reincarnation also? So is there any carry over from to life in terms of memories, effects of choices etc etc? Cause im wondering if reincarnation plays into / has any impact or informs and shapes in any way, the next life to come and how does that interact with the concept of destiny, fate, free choices?
I hope i worded this in a clear way.
Is there a way to see the story
I definately agree that this is an intresting topic to discuss. There are some things that I have learnt over the years about christian theology that I will add below that I hope can help add to some more discussion around this topic. Alot of these will be based upon how I see them apsects of this are culturally talked about that I think aren't quite correct.
1) Generally within christan theology going to heaven and hell are not really based upon some weight of good deeds vs a weight of evil deeds but rather instead on whether one is in a personal relationship with God. Biblically this is framed less a going to heaven or hell dichotomy but more spending eternaty with God or going to hell. This judgement happens at what is the end of this age.
1.1) The bible describes how at the end of this age there will be a new heaven and a new earth. It instead of saying we necessarily go to heaven for this eternal relationship with God we go to
a this new earth and have the eternal relationship with God. I then believe it describes this new heaven as an open heaven over this new earth, essentially that heaven will be present over the
whole of this new earth.
1.2) I don't believe that the bible talks about heaven as a place where you receive a grea amount of material wealth. Where this idea of material wealth I think pulled from is where the bible
talks about storing up treasure in heaven. However it as far as I know it doesn't explicitly tell us what this treasure is, it talks about how material wealth of this age cannot be taken to the
next age and that material wealth will be worthless in the age to come.
2) A couple of areas in the bible describe hell as a place where you will be in perminate darkness, surrounded by the gnashing of teeth and being tormented by burning sulfer; which I believe is where we get the general the endless suffering idea of hell.
2.1) Hell is also described in the bible at one point as the place where both body and soul is destroyed; which leads to the possible idea that instead of endless suffering, one might receive
annihilation.
2.2.) The only place I know of where the bible talks about fire and hell, which we commonly imagine as the form of endless suffering, is where it states burning up the chaff with unquenchable
fire. This as far as I can tell doesn't indicate to either endless suffering or annihilation. Fire is also common imagery used in the bible in relation to testing.
3) There is some stuff I have seen about going to hell without knowing why and I want to cover that a little bit here with this final point. Lucifer has a title in the bible meaning acuser, I belive satan the title that means this but it might be one of the others like devil etc., as he is the one that recounts your sins before God at judgement.
3.1) The bible also states that Lucifer is also getting sent to hell as punishment to him for his sins.
The comparison between jail and hell is one i have thought about a lot, and it can go further as well if you think about the idea of salvation held to in many denominations, because on top of the pure retributive approach, there is also the fact that in the prison system some people avoid any punishment because of *money money* while others are persecuted for things they didnt even do, while in denominations that arent works focused you will find that often there is a belief that even a figure like hitler could be in heaven, while a person simply being gay gets them insta-hell, and so in both the divine and physical systems there is blatant issues with miscarriage of justice and a freedom from punishment provided to some for reasons that arent even often entirely within their control. (for anyone unfamiliar, works based is a facet of christian belief systems in which acceptance into heaven and condemnation to hell is based on what you actually do and have done)
Hope my rambling makes sense, and that everyone has a wonderful day!
This is why I prefer the Buddhist afterlife with its rehabilitation and reincarnation.
Howdy my dude ! It's been so long
it really has. It's slow, but I'm coming back.
My take on the afterlife is informed by a few different things that I've read I never was a religious person but I've always loved myths and legends but the main things that influence my thinking are the depiction of the Great Spirit in Shaman King, the book The 5 People You Meet In Heaven, and the short story called The Egg which all fundamentally come bakck to the idea that when you pass on you return to the collective of ALL experience at which point you completely understand your place in it without ego
Hope I'm not too late to the party, but I'll throw in my two cents.
The Eastern Orthodox view of Heaven and Hell is a little bit different from the western Catholic or Protestant view, as in the Orthodox tradition Hell, Satan, and Death were all destroyed when Jesus died and then returned on the third day. Thus, 'Hell' doesn't really exist, and the only place where God's love cannot reach an individual doesn't exist either. What happens after one dies, then, is a bit more complex. The Orthodox view God as more of an entity or a force, rather than a big white guy in the sky (hence why no Orthodox Icons ever depict God in a human form) the idea is that after you die, you join with this force or entity we label God, and if you were a good person, being surrounded by all the light in the world will probably feel great. Being a morally indecent person, however, will probably cause a lot of pain after being revealed to the unbridled 'truth,' at least until said person grows accustomed or accepts that truth. So then, good people join with 'God' after death and experience 'Heaven,' and bad people join with 'God' and experience a 'Hell,' at least until they learn to accept and embrace 'God's love.'
I like to think that the issue of resentment can be read as a feature, not a bug of biblical hell. When I think about the demons that exist in hell and who torment humans, I see them as former humans, consumed by resentment and anger towards mankind and God to the point where they have given up their humanity to perpetual exact vengeance on those who have wronged them.
Putting that reading back into real world context, I don't think it's hard to see how punitive justice (Hell) turns people into anti-social antagonists (demons) towards whatever our society perceives as virtuous (God).
4:35 yeah, I feel that after a break-up
Consider if it were a bluff (just hell). What would that knowledge do to your character, your moral capabilities? From that point forward anything good you do or any sacrifice you make can just be attributed to your knowledge that everything is fine. So what I think people fear most is being content. Contentness and death are equally feared because they are the same thing.
Christianity has the middle ground of purgatory, either as a neutral ground of no torture nor bliss or as a waiting period where one “purifies the spirit” before reaching final judgment, but even there it works on the questionable assumption that suffering is inherently improving to one’s spiritual ethical state. There are some modern scholars that argue the concept of hell has no biblical basis and is an extension that was added with churches. I’m not Christian myself, but the focus on eternal value through eternal life might be the issue. We do have an intuitive need for actions and their judgement to sustain their values, we feel it’s dishonest to praise someone for doing one thing at one time, and then chastise them for that same specific action on another, and thus we want to have judgements which will be worth maintaining in general, but I’d argue in order to avoid the paranoia of unworthiness for eternal existence explicated in the conception of eternal torture vs eternal bliss in heaven and hell, we need to either outgrow the concept of the same mind maintaining itself beyond death, or evolve beyond the Christian obsession of recompensing eternal guilt when people aim to improve themselves from what they were. The whole prison abolition concept relies on rejecting the retributive justice in the name of aiming for betterment of all people. If we do strive for that goal, rejecting the historically common theological excuse for the retributive attitude, that suffering purifies the soul from its misdeeds and pays for temporary suffering in eternal bliss, is a necessary act. We may want to partially accept that in improvement, the self may come to recognise their past actions as in conflict with their new ethical commitments and thus suffer from it, but recognising that such suffering may be a byproduct of improvement and not a necessary measure to achieve it may help disentangle the Christian short circuiting of the ethical process.
Sorry for rambling abit, your associative style inspired some associative thoughts of my own around the subjects
It seems to me that you assume the biblical idea of justice would align with a rehabilitative idea. I feel like it’s very not. H ell is punishment for the sake of punishment. I don’t think it’s meant to be helpful, maybe it’s to enforce the hegemony of god
I agree that punishment in Abrahamic religions or other religions that focus on a Hell existing is not a great way to lure people to the religion. I grew up in Evangelical Christian churches and while I never believed, the constant fear-mongering did leave a mark for a long time. I was afraid to be myself or like certain things. I'm an atheist and while I'm not spiritual at all, if I had to choose a belief system I would lean toward reincarnation--something that values learning from your faults and having another go at life.
To further expand on this, when I was younger-having grown up in a Christian household-I’d ask questions about the Bible and usually when no one could answer the response would be something along the lines of “you can’t question God”.
Which was always sus as fuck to me, cause if that’s the case then what’s the point of the entire Bible. That aside, when this is correlated to ideas of rehabilitation and justice the message kinda becomes even darker-cause now you’re liable to be punished even if you don’t fully understand that you’re sinning/breaking the law.
Imagine right, you do your bestest to live a good life and then when you die God’s like “it’s a no from me”-no explanation, just hellfire.
And in Ghanaian Churches, from what I see around me, a lot of Christians internalize this and kinda take everything their pastor says as kosher without any real analysis.
Check out the Ear Hustle the podcast interview show made by prisoners in San Quinton prison.
They have 92 episodes and even do prisons all over the country now that one of the producers got out of prison.
They do everything from people owning pets and doing magic card game duels to how hard it is to raise a family from within prison or even start one while inside.
You can even talk to them on socials and could even interview them if they have time for it.
Forewarning that I might make a handful of comments because theological concepts and discussion are fascinating to me.
5:35
This to me rings of the concept of the atman in Hinduism overall, but especially Advaita Vedanta(non-dualism). In certain strands of Hinduism the soul is perceived as this kind of true being, a kind of true self beyond the self we know. The idea that this true self could shed its mortal body and slip into another while still being as it is, is the entire mechanism by which the idea of reincarnation(and unfortunately the ethnic caste system) runs.
In Advaita Vedanta the soul itself is not really seen as fundamentally different from god in any way. Non-dualism: as in there are not two separate divine essences. In a sense it could be said the sum of humanity's Atman is in and of itself God or Brahma.
Good vid
Generally what was described to me is hell in concept and the punishment sin carries isn’t direct. Instead it’s reflective of your relationship with God. The further away from God you are the worse life generally tends to get.
Hell is the true separation from God once you die and refuse to rehabilitate while on earth. Spiritually speaking our time on earth is our spiritual rehabilitation where we learn, heal, and become stronger spiritually with him.
The reason why the concept of jail might not fully fit is even God recognized how screwed up humanity has gotten and his prophets were wrongfully jailed and misjudged and even murdered because of evil people in the world who failed to understand their warnings.
Most of my childhood, I was a dumb kid who didn’t really think about it as much more than it is what is, you know. Then, when I was around 14, a teacher told me and my class about Purgatory. To me, that reflects my views on people and the world. Hell is representing the purest of evil, Heaven is the good and Purgatory is for the majority of humanity that are just in- between. Taking that into account, there are only a select few beings that deserve such torment as Hell and that, as a general rule barring certain exceptions, people should be given a fair chance at redemption.
I think the best concept of hell comes from the original sandman series. As the people who go and stay there, only do if they truly believe they belong there. It’s even twist reveal that anyone can leave hell anytime they want, but nobody really tries and only leave when Lucifer tells everyone to go because he’s ready to leave as well and start a new life. Hell is portrayed as more of a place for people to have a pity party for their heinous sins and to give the illusion of judgment and punishment.
I find it interesting
I think there’s something interesting in how vague a lot of the things people say about Hell is. It’s rare for someone to take pleasure in a specific person suffering in hell for an eternity and say that that is justified. But the vague idea of hell is pretty popular because it satisfies a need for justice in people.
I don’t think that the worst person is beyond improvement and redemption no matter what they have done. There is a idea that because heaven and hell is a binary and there is no way back once your condemned to Hell that you might as well be as bad as you want to be, but that ignores that what makes something bad isn’t necessarily the pain is caused you, but the harm you inflict on others. The idea of hell transfers the pain you cause others on to yourself making you more personally invested in treating other people well.
Another thing is that God to me is or is a representation of what is true, not good about the world and in this life you can do things that can’t be walked back from. Or are never going to be forgiven by the people around you. You can be better, but you might never stop facing the consequences of your action.
I typed this out half way through the video so hopefully you don’t say anything I wrote lol.
The core experiences of psychological trauma are disempowerment and disconnection from others. Recovery, therefore, is based upon the empowerment of the survivor and the creation of new connections.
*Recovery can take place only within then context of relationships; it cannot occur in isolation.* In her renewed connection with other people, the survivor re-creates the psychological facilities that were damaged or deformed by the traumatic experience. These faculties include the basic operations of trust, autonomy, initiative, competence, identity, and intimacy.
Just as these capabilities are formed in relationships with other people, they must be reformed in such relationships.
The first principle of recovery is empowerment of the survivor. She must be the author and arbiter of her own recovery. Others may offer advice, support, assistance, affection , and care, but not cure.
Many benevolent and well-intentioned attempts to assist the survivor founder because this basic principle of empowerment is not observed. No intervention that takes power away from the survivor can possibly foster her recovery, no matter how much it appears to be in her immediate best interest.
In the words of one incest survivor, “Good therapists were those who really valued my experience, and helped me to control my behavior rather than trying to control me.”
Caregivers schooled in a medical model of treatment often have difficulty grasping this fundamental principle, and putting it into practice. In exceptional circumstances, where the survivor has totally abdicated responsibility for her own self-care or threatens immediate harm to herself or to others, rapid intervention is required with or without her consent.
But even then, there is no need for unilateral action; the survivor should still be consulted about her wishes and offered as much choice as is compatible with the preservation of safety...
... Recovery unfolds in three stages. The central task of the first stage is the establishment of safety. The central task of the second stage is remembrance and mourning. The central focus of the third stage is reconnection with ordinary life. " Judith Herman
I wish Religious people were easier to talk to they’re always talking about pleasing God when nobody I know has meant the guy. I’m teenager and my mom is an atheist while my step dad is religious, I don’t know if I should believe in God or I shouldn’t. God confuses and scares me I don’t wanna burn forever because I didn’t get it.
Universalists like myself don't believe in eternal conscious torment. If there is any suffering in the afterlife it is a gorm of self-afflicted suffering as part of the growth/purification process that makes us capable of full communion. It's seeing ourselves accurately and finally facing all the ways we hurt ourselves and others - the pain of embracing our best selves and forgiving ourselves and each other. This pain is temporary, and not a form of punishment, but merely a consequence of needed growth.
That's totally a parallel I see. I don't think much about spirits because I identify heavily with my body after transitioning and learning to love myself through my body (different story lol), but I certainly hang on the thought that someone who never will face consequences for their actions in the legal will face some consequences SOMEHOW. It's comforting to think of some karmic retribution even tho I know that's not very anarchist or cool of me maybe...
Religions have laws that we follow so we can stay in a certain type of spirit there are bad things people can do that peels that spirit or can change who they are as a person. As long as you keep up certain religious values(and/or at least ask for forgiveness) Eternal rewards can still be yours. While we are still here we can change but death is are actual END for the lives we had and choices we made while we here. So ain’t no going back after death by that time you have passed or failed. Maybe there is something after the after for redemption but I’d rather be worried about that when I’m dead.
The fact that you are able to think of more compassionate ways of dealing with spiritual healing, than the major religions, is just an example of how terrible religions are. You are cool storyteller!
Religions are belief systems, organized religion with monetary incentive to control people, especially through fear, is where it gets realllly sketchy imo
In terms of rehabilitation, look at systems in Scandinavia. It's interesting, but relinquishing punishment to a degree is necessary for the healing of society that rehab for criminality gives. People still operate with a mindset which demands revenge and suffering for those which wrong them criminally, not forgiveness. Not blaming them, it is a very naturally human reaction in many circumstances. Justice is really in many ways a social construct created to systemize punishment, such that blood feuds are avoided. In taking responsibility for punishment from group revenge to a societal structure, it maintains stability of social groups by protecting escalating degrees of violent retribution, to a point. It is a historically necessary measure for successful large agricultural groups to develop in order to survive. These conditions are historically where the bases of modern monotheistic religion were birthed. An eye for an eye is better than murdering 3 family members of someone who killed you cousin, who in turn kills 5 of your fam etc... These societies used religious doctrines and stories as a way fo communicating these rules and morals, and developing a shared conception of meaning and defined perceptions of reality. A common frame for people to use to relate and collaborate with each other. In the end if the victims we're not satiated in the suffering of a perpetrator, retribution would be enacted and still birth blood feuds etc. Therefore modern judicial systems operate in the paradigm of enacting punitive suffering upon those condemned, as the underlining ideological cause and justified with historically necessary need for ensuring stability of societies. This is engrained in the theology of our core religions, as authority comes from god, with the responsibility to maintain a stable status quo and direct a subjugated populaces lives through oppression of individual freedom to fit in the confines of a functioning larger community. The scale of this has increased sooo much the complexity of social issues arising from engrained mechanisms of operating is truly abhorrent. There is no black and white, arguably physical heaven and hell per say, truly, yet the dogma is so engrained in human thought it lives there, and is real. Heaven and hell is in my perception the sides of humanity, and the reality you face based on the side of human nature your circumstances reside. Finding spiritual solace is an individual moral duty and driving force in life, and organized spirituality will always engrain the individual in a dogma which serves to control them to fit into a group. In having answers to philosophical questions told to you you avoid the existential strife of formulating your own spiritual conception of life, in exchange for a degree of control of your internal reality you give to the authority. This fulfils a need for tribe as well. Unfortunately many ways, groupthink is unavoidable and society functions more on base instincts from ages past than rational decision making for the greater good. Sorry this is an essay, it is my personal take only, yet I believe it is fairly informed and hope my perceptions interest someone. Open for discourse or rebuttals. Great video 👌
I'm not exactly sure if it's true but I've heard (haven't read) that the Christian faith lays out that those who enter "heaven" will be given a chance to allow all those in hell to be allowed in heaven but this must be unanimous. So the real question even for myself, a spiritual person whose "antiprison", but also revels in seeing those who've done wrong punished is would I vote to let them in. And does anyone who doesn't make that vote really deserve their place there. I don't know though I'm just a mortal man.
i know this might be daunting so please just read this first paragraph if nothing else. I feel a lot of your thoughts and questions are lead by misconceptions of the Bible and what Christians should believe. I would suggest looking up the Bible project and Tim Mackie’s (one of the Bible projects co creators) rotten tomatoes series. I think you’ll be surprised as to what he says about Heaven, hell, Justice, and a bunch of other things. Legit just look up the topic you’re curious about on UA-cam and type in either the Bible project or Tim mackie. I might be long winded here so let me preface this by saying if you even do read this then simply read this part and research for yourself what I’ve just said. If I your ear then by all means continue and I will debunk some misconceptions I think you have about Christian doctrines.
First and foremost this one might surprise you as some professing Christians believe this and they don’t even know they’re wrong but it’s that these bodies e we inhabit don’t matter because we’re going to end up spiritual beings anyways. This is actually false doctrine and is actually a concept brought up by the gnostics. Long story short no Christians should not believe that mind body and soul are separate. All of this is one whole to a person. And though mired and ravaged and dead it may one day become Christianity teaches that one day these dead rotten bones will be raised up again and given new life. How do I know this? We’l look no further than Christ. This is what the Bible means by firstfruits. The firstborn/ fruits is Christ and one day we follow along in his example. This doesn’t make us God btw so let’s not get that part twisted for those tempted to believe this lol.
And this leads to my next segway. What is Heaven you might ask? Well Christians should believe that it’s a lot more down to earth. Literally. Christian doctrine teaches Heaven isn’t pie in the sky but rather a full joining of Heaven and earth. This is the true Heaven. And just like our bodies this earth too will be resurrected in newness. Not just the earth but also the whole universe. I’m sorry to say guys but God is not going to burn everything up to a crisp. He’s going to make it new. So Christian if you are reading this it would do you some good to follow in our example of our God and tend to his creation better. Because He doesn’t like it when we ravage his creation either.
In regards to your questions of justice in the Bible and in everyday life you brought up the concept of hell. And I found it funny how you stated that if you were to end up in hell you’d be all the more resentful and angry rather than sorrowful or regretful. And that’s funny to me because that’s exactly what the Bible teaches about people that end up in hell. I won’t get too deep into this but the Bible is very symbolic in regards to hell. I will say this I believe there’s a hell and I believe it’s much worse than described in the Bible. But what’s strange is the paradox of there being fire and yet it’s still dark. I won’t go any further but I think you might get what I’m trying to say. If not then please reply as I don’t wanna waste more time typing something you might not read lol
If you Storyteller (David) or anyone else reads this and is interested in more or would like to debate me on these topics feel free to comment below. But I would rather recommend you look up the resources I told you about in the preface as I am no theologian just a man who parrots talking points from theologians lol have a good day y’all 👍
What if our souls are just griss in a mill, and the suffering of earth and hell is meant to grind us down into a fine powder to get the quintessence inside all of us? It's not divine justice, it's a cosmic harvest.
Hi. Loved you from f d signifier vid bruv
In Judaïsm the concept of hell doesn't actually exist. Once you die that is it. The concept of hell is not even a biblical description but more of a catholic one where several passages are fused together into one idea, and then devellopped in Catholic fanfiction (Dante's inferno comes to mind). The idea that life exists after as a divine version of the living probably translated to how we view life. Those righteous live life without guilt or punishment while those who do crime are punished. And so the afterlife has to be the same and more? It's hard to really grasp what that means. That doesn't even take into account the ideas of rebirth and how only living the most virtuous of self do you ascend, otherwise you relive life in some different form (this from someone who is not fully versed in Hinduism or Hindu Buddism). This ramble I guess to setup that, the culture and how we view death as either punisment, relief, or more of just life also reflects how we view punishment now. I honestly think you got something with the idea of prisons in life and hell being all too similar and how we (societally) can be okay with throwing people away to be forgotten as they are to be punished, in the same way that we are totally okay with how we forget or deal with the harm they dealt because they are now going to be punished and be forgotten
im going to have to deep dive in the bible again. ive never really interpreted the concept of hell not being a biblical description. but i would not be surprised at this considering catholic traditions have tried to harmonize certain passages to make a uniform message. example would be the seven dying words that try to make jesus say everything on the cross said in all 4 gospels despite these 4 narratives being written for different audiences, and jesus has attitudes n expressions that are incompatible with each other in the sense of trying to combine everything he said on the cross across the gosepls.
i also vaguely remember hearing bart erhman say Jesus wouldnt have believed in a hell, especially as a jewish rabbi, would have promoted other things
liked the first thumbnail better
For the punishment in hell thing, isn't the Jewish Gehinnom like spirit rehab? As far as I understand it the souls in there are supposed to be cleaned there
Is Jubilee weekend the day when the UK ended slavery in the carribean (only to replace it with labor from China and India)?
This is an interesting discussion. Im a Christian but I have always interpreted heaven and hell not as the consumerist versions you see in media but moves of mental states aswwell. For instance if you were to have everything you ever desired granted to you you'd hate it because there is no value to anything as everything becomes meaningless. I feel as though heaven is somewhat of a state of nirvana you where you separate yourself from your material desires. Hell being the absence of god to where you're overtaken by your own self indulgences to the point where it controls you. Atleast that's my interpretation.
I’m with you on people manifest they own spirituality based off zodiac signs n such, but I believe if you join a religion then you choose to have your spirit judged by specific laws acknowledging there’s something bigger that has keys to an extended lifetime in spirit if you hold up certain values. I don’t like how it’s weaponized either because it is a personal spiritual journey that everyone is on if so they believe it. Some want people focused on their after life while they just want to focus on the right now, that’s okay with me but obviously not established religions
I recommend you read “The Divine Comedy” it is one of or if not THE MOST interesting concept of the afterlife(as far as Christianity goes) but it’s long as hell. I just watched a guy break it down on UA-cam I wish i could remember his name but it’s something like wendigon or something it really gives the afterlife…life. The books a W.
This is a great video, but I do wonder, if you could, what would you do with the people that are the most generators of pain and suffering in this world, yk like politicians, the rich, etc. What would you do to them if no punishment was involved? The people that create this idea of punishment/hell, how would you judge them without using their created idea of retribution.
I would love to have a conversation about this with you
I apologize for the long comment but I really think the concept of disciplining for rehabilitation vs outright punishment is interesting and I think there are a lot of parallels between that concept and this discussion. What I mean is that as humans our line for the proverbial "point of no return" differs just like our perception what makes a person deserving hell differs. For example I think we would all agree a one time thief can be redeemed and rehabilitated especially if there circumstances are also an indictment on society. On that front then yeah jail as currently constituted is a terrible rehabilitation tool. But let's say their was a societal equivalent to a payer, confess and repent system in our society, would that be the rehabilitation tool we need. Well doesn't religion have that?
Conversely I that we agree that it would be really hard to believe the shooter in the Buffalo mass murder and other mass murderers are redeemable so should jail for them serve as that punishment for reaching that point of no return? I think that punishment for the point of no return kinda what hell is conceived as. I think the concept of hell is religion's way of saying you had your chance to rehabilitate (through confession, going to your local place of worship, repenting that behaviour) but you ignored it and have reached the point of no return. Obviously that them branches in the conversation of what is the point of no return. Also is hell that the right thing to do for people even if we deem them irredeemable. Even from a rehabilitation perspective I think we would have to ask that if the prayer and repent system is the right rehabilitation system in religion given this system has the obvious hole of being abused by both the punisher and the punished. It's something I have a lot of thoughts on but this comment is long enough.
I don't know if that made sense or if this was a weird stream of consciousness lol but those are my thoughts.
Big fan of your videos and I think the new editing style works, it's like a short form podcast.
This is great, and it's something I've thought about for a while. What's the game in the background?
I'd also like to know what game this is if anybody can help!
@@kevinluyo1142 Streets of Rage 4
@@turkeysanwich9281thank you king
your lifepoints aren't going to be ok when we duel
I might be late, but Hell is more so described as a lake of fire. When you "go to hell" your not really going to hell, your being wiped from existence. There is no eternal punishment.
Im not a perfect christian or anything like that. But this is roughly what Hell really is.
This is really interesting, 🤔 I should definitely add these themes to my game 🎮 (it's an FPS with a narrative tangential to DOOM)
The Jail concept made me think of *Dead Leaves* an anime film that touches on being imprisoned without your memory (it's a sci-fi action comedy though)
I believe the lord is forgiving, and I think those that are in hell can be lifted from it. I think then if the lord is forgiving I must do similar actions and be forgiving of others, as he was forgiving himself.
But that's my opinion
The idea of Hell feels illogical. If God (in the Christian sense) is love, then why would he ever forsake anyone? Allow them to suffer forever? So either God is loving and there is no Hell, or God is not loving and people do suffer eternally. Of course that's just what we're told to believe. So, what other options are out there? That's why I love studying other spiritualities and religions, to learn about those other perspectives.
Must this blessing shield you from the wrath of the Holy Ones & Zeros.
If hell had a hope of escape it woudn't be a very usefult ool for controlling people's behavior.
As a queer Christian you kinda have to reshape a lot of your views about religion in order to still feel connected.
The conclusion I came to is that God made me this way, so of course he loves me.
Another thing I think is noteworthy is as important as the bible is to us, it was still written by a man, not directly from God himself, so it will carry the biases of all its writers.
I've had to lie my whole life for various reasons because sometimes a lie means safety, and I could never imagine God seeing that as being just as bad as the people who made me feel unsafe.
I have a lot of complicated feelings about forgiveness, but I've always seen hell as the kind of place people who've never let others know peace and never repented for it would go (r*pists, serial killers)
I think other people like people of different religions or atheists or people who have done harm, but want to improve and be kinder people are welcome. Like you said everyone's relationship to God is different and this is how I feel about it
hey hru, had a question. as a queer christian, have you ever been supported, but also encouraged to not act on your orientation?
@@PaintedHoundie I mean, yeah? Homophobia/transphobia/aphobia is not exclusive to christians but it is perpetuated by a lot of them
As of right now, I do not have support but christianity isn't the majority religion where I live either, so idk how much it affects things since most religious people I've met have biases
@@PaintedHoundie ah sorry, I misunderstood the question. No, I'm not out to anyone irl, so I haven't had that conversation yet
A gallon of water everyday
Heaven is a paradox: a good person can go to heaven, but it's impossible for a good person to stay in heaven.
In Islam, muslims have rehabilitative hell while non muslims do not. However, both groups may go to heaven.
Heaven and Hell are equally terrible. Both last forever and you can never just die. Either way it’s eternal damnation.
Whenever I watch your spiritual videos I wonder if you’ve ever explored Catholic theology and if not I feel like you’d find a lot more to engage with. There actually is a rehabilitation in the afterlife: purgatory. To understand the existence of hell you need what flannery Conner described as a theological view of the human person. God is the source of all goodness and life; God breathes life into the dust of our bodies. He desires to love us for all eternity willing salvation for all, but he does not impose that on us. We choose if we want to be United to God or separate: heaven and hell respectively. You may object that one ought to be given a chance to see what hell is like, and that is what one gets when they meditate on their own death. An honestly charitable exhortation to fear the Lord is meant to help one remember a terrifying reality that is so tempting to forget: life wholly separated from God. That is why flannery O’Connor ends the short story “a good man is hard to find” with the line “she would’ve been good if she had a gun pointed at her everyday of her life.” True Catholic justice is rehabilitative. That is why pope Francis stated that the death penalty is not admissible when the convict can be detained without posing a threat to society.
i grew up catholic and i like the concept alot , even though i'm not a catholic anymore , but it has helped me alot
@@celestinerarieya665 If you'd like to share I'd be curious to know what about the concept of Catholicism you like/find helpful.
@@jakeblaydes7283 sure ! Well for me what I liked about Catholicism is the whole idea of spiritual rehabilitation or purgatory. The concept of god recognising that you messed up and you did good in some areas and people interceding for you is beautiful. I also like the values of charity and how at least growing up in the church I’ve seen it done ALOT. Another thing I like is the concept of saints. That they are different saints for different aspects Of life and their stories. The practice of confession is also good. Having the ability to have someone to give you direction and it’s accessibility is nice considering therapy is expensive and not as accessible. Not to compare but it helps people get some direction. These are a few I can think of at the top of my head
"To be blunt" count: 466
Imo the video is a bit quiet, other videos were fine, just this one
6:25 in hell, there's no one who doesn't know what they did wrong.
Jesus is the only way out of hell!
First
ratio
Is it a meme to pronounce waTeR as “wa-uh”?
no he's just british
I am first
Ive always been turned off by the Christians screaming at the top of their long, to a mic tied booming speaker, about hell and hell fire