If you don't have a patent, then anyone can design a part that performs the same function. Given the simplicity of the design and that it integrates with a third party's product, it is easy to design a similar - or better - product.
@@speex_xcv It depends on how the STL file was released by the original author. He did not explain either why he released his intellectual property or under what terms for the license agreement. Either way, it wasn't very smart to publish it to a site frequented by people with 3D printers.
@@gaiustacitus4242 He clearly said in this video that he released it for personal use only, the why (for data he said) is irrelevant. It would be easy to prove it is the exact same STL and if so, they are not complying with his licence terms. Obviously not doing so would force them to reverse engineer his or come up with their own, so I see your point, but that doesn't make it ethically right or legal.
I had this happen to me when I found a niche during the pandemic. First, you have to keep improving and innovating your product, be one step ahead. Second, don't rely on one product as a business, innovate and design more products, build a brand. Also, Etsy has very poor customer service, I stopped selling on that website.
I fully agree. Only with more innovation you can stay ahead of the copy cats! I wouldn't rule out Etsy completely though since it's a great platform to start the side hustle journey.
The general functional design cannot be protected but the explicit files are copyright. And if someone purchased them with a warning that they were for personal use only, then that is a contract that could be enforceable. I also expect that it's possible to engineer non-functional design elements into the design to strengthen copyright claims i.e. don't just make a tube and a bracket, put some stylistic ridges on the edges, maybe even some very subtle watermarking that shows up as ghosting but is actually a barcode or initials in morse.
Great video. I would say brand and following is the best thing you can have to fight against the copycats. With 3d printing its so easy to copy, but marketing and gaining the trust of your customers is not easy to do.
As I think more and more about selling 3D printing products that I have (and will) design, I hear these kind of things happening and pause for thought. I'm sorry this happened to you. It truly saddens me that people are willing to stoop that low as to steal someone else's ideas. I guess one lesson learned here is don't sell the STL's. They would have had a much more difficult time replicating your part if they had not purchased the print file. I just discovered your channel today, and subscribed. I really like your content. Thanks!!!
@3DFarmers yes and no, the sad truth is it's easy to copy designs. I'm an industrial designer myself, all you need is a set if calipers and some cad modelling skills. Knowing this it's hard to decide where to spend you time. There is always a chance that if the part is simple enough it will be copied. The only protection we have are patents and maybe copyright for stl so they can't resell the same file. That being said no risk no reward, there will always be copy cats just need to constantly innovate and build a reliable brand as you stated. Great video by the way.
If you made the STL file available under a license that permitted non-commercial use only, and they were using your STL to produce their copy, then they're in violation of the license, aren't they? It seems like there should be some remedy there.
some day a few years ago a friend (my personal guru)told me... If you don´t want to be copied, just do mediocre things... if your work is being copied you are doing well...and please don't misunderstand, having being copied is irritating but is the blood of the market (since the beginning of times) the only way to mitigate the impact is improving your product in a constant way... remember, if nobody wants to copy your product, well... there is a problem there.
I see the exact same problem of copycat on a wooden furniture designer, (a BIG store stolen the design), they fight with a better and more beautiful design!!!! check mate. NEW SUB!!!!
It might be prudent to check your country's IP Laws. In the UK there are Patents, Copyright, Design Registration and Trade Marks for IP infringement they cover different aspects of IP. Any ideas released to the public "prior" to getting a Patent for example may hamper IP Protection since, due diligence will applied on prior art search by the Patent Office. Believe it or not the ring pull on the coke cola can for example was not for the actual tab but for the rivet - (if I am correct from recollection). Always ponder on different methods and materials that may be even more cost-effective but not hamper the function of your product as a small start-up to keep ahead of the copycats. Also just to throw in something outlandish but true, some things do not need a patent such as the company secret formula for coke cola for example, where the employees would have to sign a non disclosure argreement.
Oh, youre a youtuber, lol. I found your etsy store while doing some research and was a bit curious and now i saw this. People sell files until asked nkt to because they think its okay to do that and will remove it if asked. But why cant people just design their own stuff is beyond me. Ah well.
a competitor makes a similar product as you and u risk losing your business.... then you need to diversify. Also if as you say to build a brand, then make sure to add a logo on your version so its clear that the product comes from you.
I would at least send a cease and desist threatening email about their commercial use of a licensed .stl file. I know that any real legal action wouldn't actually be worth the money it would cost, but maybe it would be enough to scare them off.
Yes, we are drafting a cease and desist letter on copyright infringement. The main challenge is to prove that they used the STL. But if we buy their part and 3D scan it. We might be able to do that.
@@3DFarmers If their shop has a lot of products, all "borrowed" from other creators, it may be enough just to threaten legal action. They may look at it as not worth the risk and trouble for the one product. Easier just to drop it out of their store. Especially if they did actually buy the .stl file from your site. They would know that they are guilty of what you are accusing them of, and for all they know, you may have a smoking gun proof. It is a psychological move.
@@sevilnatas Yes, even somebody in the comments had some of his products copied by them. They didn't buy directly from us, but somebody from the same region in Turkey bought file. I guess it's a friend of them. Just to make it harder to prove.
@@3DFarmers Oof, didn't notice the guy was in Turkey. That gets harder since he isn't in your jurisdiction, as far as legal threats go. Seems like your best bet would be to go after his Shopify shop with complaints/copywrite strikes or whatever complaint path Shopify provides.
You did use the magic word....PATENT. Otherwise you have competition....even if it is from your design. Do you want to have a monopoly of the product? Even a good patent is sometimes useless. Change one little detail in the design AND you have a brand new item. This is a cruel world.
The great thing is, that the copy cats will never catch up if we stay innovative. That's exactly what we are going to do. Contineous improvement and innovations.
In theory you are right. However, it is quite easy to go around a design patent by minor adjustment of the CAD. It's often not worth it, also because it would involve huge costs to defend the design patent.
@@3DFarmers actually no. There are services that can help. But any hosting, social media will ban/block the shop if you apply for copyright violation (as long as legit). So as soon you found the website sells your copyrighted items you can close them down if they won't listen. In America and Europe is very strict with that.
@@Jokershadow696 Yes, we looked at that. If we would file a Single European Design Registration it would cost 1340 EUR for 5 years of protection. In the US it is a lot cheaper --> 45 USD. The problem is, that you never know how good your design is and if it is worth protecting it.
As an Industrial designer with 20 years of experience and with over 12 innovation patents, I can tell you that Patents are useless, especially if it's a design patent.
Looks like I need to open a discord to answer all these questions :). To give you some short answers: Yes we ship internationally. It's quite complicated for Shopify since we are not part EU, but with Etsy it is much easier. They handle a lot of the taxes and customs. We started with Swiss Post but changed now due to our high volumes.
@@3DFarmers Yes for sure! I think you have a niche here. There is a lot of information about print farms from America or Germany but there is almost no information about how this should look like in Switzerland. It doesn't even have to be 3d printing specific. There is almost no information about ecommerce in Switzerland at all.
@@christopherwilson6527 actually, no its not, there are plenty of manufacturers who make custom filament, check out protopasta as one. I was just trying to give suggestions, maybe its karma if this is your temperament when giving suggestions. Shadilay.
@@3DFarmers ProtoPasta would be one. You could produce it in a NICE complimenting color ONLY AVAILABLE by (You).. and you can then differentiate yourself with a blurb saying ORIGINAL.. any other model by a different color is NOT "official" and support original content makers.. etc. Burnt orange metalic PETG would be a cool color, or whatever. Give the filament makers a call and they can do that for you.. even if a tiny bit more expensive for material, it can put yourself out above the copycats.. btw I fuggin hate copycats..
@@3DFarmers as you i didnt patent it so i did nothing about it. I just hope my customers stays with me and i try to modify it to make it even better. but in the end it just sucks :D
If you don't have a patent, then anyone can design a part that performs the same function. Given the simplicity of the design and that it integrates with a third party's product, it is easy to design a similar - or better - product.
But the didnt redisign it, they used the same STL. So i'm not sure if this is ok.
@@speex_xcv It depends on how the STL file was released by the original author. He did not explain either why he released his intellectual property or under what terms for the license agreement.
Either way, it wasn't very smart to publish it to a site frequented by people with 3D printers.
@@gaiustacitus4242 He clearly said in this video that he released it for personal use only, the why (for data he said) is irrelevant. It would be easy to prove it is the exact same STL and if so, they are not complying with his licence terms. Obviously not doing so would force them to reverse engineer his or come up with their own, so I see your point, but that doesn't make it ethically right or legal.
The competitor did not design the part, they used the same stl file.
If they would design from scratch, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but to take my STL, print it and sell it?
I had this happen to me when I found a niche during the pandemic. First, you have to keep improving and innovating your product, be one step ahead. Second, don't rely on one product as a business, innovate and design more products, build a brand. Also, Etsy has very poor customer service, I stopped selling on that website.
I fully agree. Only with more innovation you can stay ahead of the copy cats! I wouldn't rule out Etsy completely though since it's a great platform to start the side hustle journey.
The general functional design cannot be protected but the explicit files are copyright. And if someone purchased them with a warning that they were for personal use only, then that is a contract that could be enforceable. I also expect that it's possible to engineer non-functional design elements into the design to strengthen copyright claims i.e. don't just make a tube and a bracket, put some stylistic ridges on the edges, maybe even some very subtle watermarking that shows up as ghosting but is actually a barcode or initials in morse.
That's a great input. One can also hide a digital watermark in the STL.
Your 1000th subscriber here! Congrats, you really deserved it 👏.
Wow amazing, thank you so much!!
Extremely well done video that is superbly articulated.
Thank you so much for your feedback! Very much appreciated.
Great video. I would say brand and following is the best thing you can have to fight against the copycats. With 3d printing its so easy to copy, but marketing and gaining the trust of your customers is not easy to do.
On point!
As I think more and more about selling 3D printing products that I have (and will) design, I hear these kind of things happening and pause for thought. I'm sorry this happened to you. It truly saddens me that people are willing to stoop that low as to steal someone else's ideas. I guess one lesson learned here is don't sell the STL's. They would have had a much more difficult time replicating your part if they had not purchased the print file. I just discovered your channel today, and subscribed. I really like your content. Thanks!!!
Yes indeed, without the STL they would have a hard time replicating the designs so well.
Glad to have you on board!
@3DFarmers yes and no, the sad truth is it's easy to copy designs. I'm an industrial designer myself, all you need is a set if calipers and some cad modelling skills. Knowing this it's hard to decide where to spend you time. There is always a chance that if the part is simple enough it will be copied. The only protection we have are patents and maybe copyright for stl so they can't resell the same file. That being said no risk no reward, there will always be copy cats just need to constantly innovate and build a reliable brand as you stated. Great video by the way.
it's possible to fingerprint STLs for tracking purposes :)
If you made the STL file available under a license that permitted non-commercial use only, and they were using your STL to produce their copy, then they're in violation of the license, aren't they? It seems like there should be some remedy there.
Yes, we are drafting a cease and desist letter on copyright infringement. The main challenge is to prove that they used the STL to print the part.
Well you could register a trademark and use that mark on your designs this will help filter out the laziest copycats who fear legal action.
That's a good idea as well!
UA-cam algorithm picked you up - just wanted to let you know! Greetings from across the border 😄👌
some day a few years ago a friend (my personal guru)told me... If you don´t want to be copied, just do mediocre things... if your work is being copied you are doing well...and please don't misunderstand, having being copied is irritating but is the blood of the market (since the beginning of times) the only way to mitigate the impact is improving your product in a constant way... remember, if nobody wants to copy your product, well... there is a problem there.
I see the exact same problem of copycat on a wooden furniture designer, (a BIG store stolen the design), they fight with a better and more beautiful design!!!! check mate. NEW SUB!!!!
It might be prudent to check your country's IP Laws. In the UK there are Patents, Copyright, Design Registration and Trade Marks for IP infringement they cover different aspects of IP. Any ideas released to the public "prior" to getting a Patent for example may hamper IP Protection since, due diligence will applied on prior art search by the Patent Office. Believe it or not the ring pull on the coke cola can for example was not for the actual tab but for the rivet - (if I am correct from recollection). Always ponder on different methods and materials that may be even more cost-effective but not hamper the function of your product as a small start-up to keep ahead of the copycats. Also just to throw in something outlandish but true, some things do not need a patent such as the company secret formula for coke cola for example, where the employees would have to sign a non disclosure argreement.
Emboss your Etsy store name into the STL. Not a perfect solution, but adds inconvenience to those looking for quick & easy profits.
We will start doing that in the future.
I had same thing happen to me a few years ago. I learned not to post my stl files anymore.
Yes, definitely the better choice in hindsight.
This could always be happen
That is why you should marked your logo on your product.
That doesn't really do much other than show if you bought it from the creator or not.
That would be a hurdle more for the copy cats!
Oh, youre a youtuber, lol. I found your etsy store while doing some research and was a bit curious and now i saw this.
People sell files until asked nkt to because they think its okay to do that and will remove it if asked. But why cant people just design their own stuff is beyond me.
Ah well.
a competitor makes a similar product as you and u risk losing your business.... then you need to diversify. Also if as you say to build a brand, then make sure to add a logo on your version so its clear that the product comes from you.
Yes, that's exactly what we are doing. We have launched several products and will have three Etsy stores by the end of this year.
I would at least send a cease and desist threatening email about their commercial use of a licensed .stl file. I know that any real legal action wouldn't actually be worth the money it would cost, but maybe it would be enough to scare them off.
Yes, we are drafting a cease and desist letter on copyright infringement. The main challenge is to prove that they used the STL. But if we buy their part and 3D scan it. We might be able to do that.
@@3DFarmers If their shop has a lot of products, all "borrowed" from other creators, it may be enough just to threaten legal action. They may look at it as not worth the risk and trouble for the one product. Easier just to drop it out of their store. Especially if they did actually buy the .stl file from your site. They would know that they are guilty of what you are accusing them of, and for all they know, you may have a smoking gun proof. It is a psychological move.
@@sevilnatas Yes, even somebody in the comments had some of his products copied by them. They didn't buy directly from us, but somebody from the same region in Turkey bought file. I guess it's a friend of them. Just to make it harder to prove.
@@3DFarmers Oof, didn't notice the guy was in Turkey. That gets harder since he isn't in your jurisdiction, as far as legal threats go. Seems like your best bet would be to go after his Shopify shop with complaints/copywrite strikes or whatever complaint path Shopify provides.
You did use the magic word....PATENT.
Otherwise you have competition....even if it is from your design.
Do you want to have a monopoly of the product?
Even a good patent is sometimes useless.
Change one little detail in the design AND you have a brand new item.
This is a cruel world.
The great thing is, that the copy cats will never catch up if we stay innovative. That's exactly what we are going to do. Contineous improvement and innovations.
Just copyright the design. Patent need for tech like inventions not small parts. Can take 2 weeks and that's it.
In theory you are right. However, it is quite easy to go around a design patent by minor adjustment of the CAD. It's often not worth it, also because it would involve huge costs to defend the design patent.
You ever heard of the CCP bro? 😂😂😂 Copyright infringement 👑👑👑
@@3DFarmers actually no. There are services that can help. But any hosting, social media will ban/block the shop if you apply for copyright violation (as long as legit). So as soon you found the website sells your copyrighted items you can close them down if they won't listen. In America and Europe is very strict with that.
@@Jokershadow696 Yes, we looked at that. If we would file a Single European Design Registration it would cost 1340 EUR for 5 years of protection. In the US it is a lot cheaper --> 45 USD.
The problem is, that you never know how good your design is and if it is worth protecting it.
@@3DFarmers I am in UK, my deigns cost me £70 for 8 designs. I think you may look into patent and not copyrighting the design. I may be wrong.
Got a patent? Then nothing you can do about it.
As an Industrial designer with 20 years of experience and with over 12 innovation patents, I can tell you that Patents are useless, especially if it's a design patent.
Not legally, but there are other ways explained in the video ;)
Wait you are from Switzerland? I saw CHF
Yes indeed :)
Looks like I need to open a discord to answer all these questions :). To give you some short answers: Yes we ship internationally. It's quite complicated for Shopify since we are not part EU, but with Etsy it is much easier. They handle a lot of the taxes and customs. We started with Swiss Post but changed now due to our high volumes.
@@3DFarmers Yes for sure! I think you have a niche here. There is a lot of information about print farms from America or Germany but there is almost no information about how this should look like in Switzerland. It doesn't even have to be 3d printing specific. There is almost no information about ecommerce in Switzerland at all.
@@speex_xcv I attended a Etsy and Amazon sellers meet up in Zurich few years ago. There are few sellers..
You provided the stl into the wild? oops
Yes, with intend. Next video will be about the passive income I was able to generate with the STLs.
So a funnel?
Hm?
Couldn't they simply redesign the product and relist it on Etsy? Seems to me like Etsy is just a pool of copy cats.
Yes, of course they could, but copy cats are mostly too lazy to do it.
Is weird, because half of his family is doing the same to Americans products every day.
It's a family business!
contact Polymaker or another brand, and get them to make a filament that ONLY YOU can buy, you can set yourself apart that way also.
Interesting approach!
Thats would be a terrible business model for them. Make one type filament of one person? Totally impractical
@@christopherwilson6527 actually, no its not, there are plenty of manufacturers who make custom filament, check out protopasta as one. I was just trying to give suggestions, maybe its karma if this is your temperament when giving suggestions.
Shadilay.
@@christopherwilson6527 oh, not OP.. never mind
@@3DFarmers ProtoPasta would be one. You could produce it in a NICE complimenting color ONLY AVAILABLE by (You).. and you can then differentiate yourself with a blurb saying ORIGINAL.. any other model by a different color is NOT "official" and support original content makers.. etc. Burnt orange metalic PETG would be a cool color, or whatever. Give the filament makers a call and they can do that for you.. even if a tiny bit more expensive for material, it can put yourself out above the copycats.. btw I fuggin hate copycats..
this happened to me too and now there are other brands with cheaper prices popping up ...
Sorry to hear that. What did you do about it?
@@3DFarmers as you i didnt patent it so i did nothing about it. I just hope my customers stays with me and i try to modify it to make it even better. but in the end it just sucks :D
Yes, that's actually a great point! Update/upgrade the design and name it Version 2 so that you are a step ahead.
What kind of PETG CF did you use?
For this part we actually use PLA. For holders and mounts we use PETG-CF.
@@3DFarmers Which manufacturers do you get your filament from?"
@@marcelsa3683 We use filaments mainly from Polymaker and BambuLab.
Patents are worthless
I wouldn't say that on a general basis but in some cases it can be.