Cognitive Function Axes | CPT Explained
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- An axis is, true to its name, the point upon which two opposing cognitive functions rotate - we we switch to our opposing cognitive state, we swivel upon our primary axis to do so. I highly recommend watching the previous episodes in this series before beginning this one:
Episode 1 - • The Cognitive Function...
Episode 2 - • Cognitive Function Pai...
Episode 3 - • Cognitive Function Att...
Episode 4 - • The Dip Functions | CP...
There are two primary axes within the psyche - one axis between the dominant and oppositional, and one in between the two auxiliaries.
Thanks to Kiara Kerrick for the subtitles!
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About me:
Hi, I'm Harry, and I'm intensely passionate about personality typing and self-development - so much so that I have created my own Jung-inspired system, taking a more high-resolution look at the factors making up personality.
Through Cognitive Personality Theory I examine the underlying mechanisms behind cognition, and the means through which a single type can have limitless individual variation - I believe type itself is just a set of cognitive predispositions that can according to the needs of the situation be overcome.
I don't believe any type is limited in what they can achieve, but have noticed sensationalist attitudes and internet trends propagating a culture in which type-development is actively discouraged in favour of conforming to simplistic archetypes. Through CPT I hope to dispel various myths and oversimplifications of what constitutes personality type, and along the way encourage a healthier attitude towards type that allows a person to become not who they are told they are, but rather who they want to be.
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00:00 - The Axis Explained
06:06 - The Se-Ni Axis
08:43 - The Ne-Si Axis
10:36 - The Te-Fi Axis
12:41 - The Fe-Ti Axis
15:20 - Wrap-up
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KEY
Ni/Introverted Intuition - Broad & plethoric perception of internal world.
Ne/Extraverted Intuition - Broad & plethoric perception of external world.
Si/Introverted Sensing - Specific and concrete perception of internal world.
Se/Extraverted Sensing - Specific and concrete perception of external world.
Fi/Introverted Feeling - Subjective codec; internal emotional data & harmony.
Fe/Extraverted Feeling - Subjective codec; external emotional data & harmony.
Ti/Introverted Thinking - Objective codec; internal logical order.
Te/Extraverted Thinking - Objective codec; external logical order.
Lens - Perceives data.
Codec - Rationalises data.
Convergent - Positive, creative, enacting change and seeking novelty.
Divergent - Negative, authoritative, instilling consequence and driving utility.
For more clarification on terms see the CPT eBook!
#16Types #CPT
You're so chill it's peaceful. I love how after you say something, sometimes you blink twice innocently and it's freaking cute lol
Back when I first launched the channel I never blinked (on camera) at all - how far I've come!
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory My INFJ friend never blinks too, and he has really big eyes. I actually told him that he scares me with his big sharp eyes. I nicknamed him the Big White Wolf because of this. Since he always seem like he's about to overthrow everything that stays in his way or start a revolution, and ascend as the white alpha wolf prime(white-cause he has a secret that I'm not allowed to convey even tho I think that it's unnecessary to be secretive about being no... table). Or is that my own projection of my own black wolfness of my own grand strategy or 4X techniques of world dominance...?! I said black cause I approve of the underrated Galactic Empire's ambitions of dominance (of being dominated by a small INFJ gang). And he is also kind only with his pack. With others, he just needs to psychoanalyze them to death with his big laser focused eyes, and they run away. So that's proof that I was not in his pack from the beginning? I wonder... or he was not in my pack? Which is it? I don't have big eyes, but I have the indifferent INTJ cold eyes when I hear or see nonsense, which could make for a rival for the title of the sigma wolf. Wait... he wants to ascend and control as the alpha wolf prime, while I'm happy to being a sigma Se-Te nihilistic reality checker wolf for him that cuts and destroys his dream and his whiteness... Woof! =touche another wolfy!(I hope that you got it now)... I imagine his internal rage now...
So he knew from the beginning that I would clash with his Ni-Se dreamland, and I would attempt to bring him to the dark side...
While I knew that at first he will like the dark side and the death star that goes with the limited dark special bundle offer, but then he will go all Luke Skywalker on me... and destroy my fortified death star in which my trust in him lied in... because he didn't wanted to pay the price of the offer with a defensive pact(reciprocity). Those INFJs rebels, they are ready to enslave death stars just to have their freedom intact!
Or if they can't be in control of the death star, they destroy it... with no remorse for the thousands of materials and rare metals, and also time that were put in it, and also the article 66 of the convention that explicitly says that destroying someone's death star is mildly innapropirate...
PS: Before you are going to psychocommentize my comment and say that this is so Ne, remember, those are Se observations coupled with Fi sentiments and packed in an Ne Ti form(ENTP unconscious). Since the real sentiments would have been bluntly subtle(Te), as opposed to how they are in this form, subtly blunt(Ti). See the difference? Cause I don't see it...
PS 2: If you laugh, the Empire wins another victory against the INFJ rebels of free... doom!
Tell me how many victories did the Empire won after you have finished reading. Otherwise, the Empire is doomed because of the INFJs left(socionics result based) unconscious and doom seeking state of destroying the INTJs death stars!
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory I watched a bunch of your videos, and it's is a great content.Blink blink. Much more advanced than the most, delivered in a well structured, easy to understand way. Blink blink. I love it, thank you for that. Blink blink. There is just one "but" in many of your videos I want to point out: blink blink Unfortunately, breaking the pace like that makes it annoying to watch. Blink blink. Gaps make the pace way too slow, but I can't speed it up, because then you'd be speaking too fast to keep up with between the gaps. Blink blink.
If you tried accelerating and breaking like that in a car, you'd be banging passenger's head against the windshield, which doesn't make for a very smooth ride.
@Northwest Wind are you an enfp? Idk I'm guessing, trying to get better at making type hypotheses
I’ve binge watched all of your videos and I feel so much smarter. You are one of the few people who can explain cognitive functions and their dynamic within a stack in a solid way. Thank you for your hard work!
Thank you for the great comment!
fi-te axis?
@@nothing29717 Fi = wants to succeed
Te = plans in behest of Fi
generalization:
*sub_i, obj_e*
Ti = analysis
Ne = possibilities
Ni = guesstimate
Se = sensory_awareness/details
Si = solidified data; past experiences
Fe = social_aware/details
I have been thinking the exact same thing, just visualized differently. You are on to something big, make a personality test!
Fascinating! Heh, I'll only make a test outside my type service if I'm 100% confident in its reliability - not a fan of tests so my bar is quite high!
This totally changes the stigma around “grips”, I mean they’re still going to be a strain, but it can be a good thing to rotate for a time and build that muscle’s endurance.
Bro I’m zooming through your whole channel and I’m really impressed with the smooth delivery that has just been getting better and better. This topic is super complicated (at least to me) and you’re explaining better in every video. Either that or I’m just understanding more lol.
I wanted to ask if you can use more images for people like me during the examples. I would hear the words you’re saying but I usually have to pause it and replay it to make a model and draw out what you’re saying in my mind as you’re saying what you’re saying about the examples. I think I’m just a visual learner but having the pictures be something I could see while the example is said (even if it’s static) would really help.
Anyway, thank you for this content, it’s definitely a game changer for me and those I’m close to! Subbed and looking forward to more
Thank you for this awesome feedback!
I'm increasingly trying to incooporate diagrams when relevant, but I definitely want to add more!
I appreciate it :)
+1
The way you speak is so wonderful i love it so much. The rhythm and the tone and accent and all of it its just beautiful
Thank you :)
I have found your input as water in the oasis. I appreciate your work and dedication to this channel, Harry! Keep up the good work.
PS: I loved your book
I love this analogy and am honoured by the comparison. Glad you like the book too!!
Why do bees have sticky hair?
because they use honeycombs
That.. Is true.
Genius
Hey I'm reading your book and it's truly amazing! Thank you!
Thank you, I'm so glad to hear this!
Thank you, again! enjoyed some meaningful "thoughts" emerging from my mind ...
Awesome to hear :)
As INTP this video was more helpfull to me than INTP vs INFP and INTP vs ISTP.
I am glad that you are doing better. And I hope that you do a Esfp video too.
I actually can't wait to do an ESFP video!
Great video as always!
Could you make a video where you type celebreties or other famous people? I would love to see real life examples of the things you teach. Maybe you could also show your opinion on mistyped celebrities and what you think their real type is.
This is an excellent idea! Copyright tends to be tricky in this area so I'd have to be careful with what footage I use etc.
One question: in which situations do we fold this square to make these opposing functions come together to consequently switch them? Can we put ourselves on purpose in these situations? Love your work! You‘re definitely the best in the field!
Tell me what you think Harry!
This is a comment on another channel about psychology.
*Incoming stuff*
I'm a covert narcissist and I want to discuss with you.
For me, it seems that all of those personality disorders and narcissism cames from the ego. The ego is a mechanism of defense and of survival. That means that instead of making a person weaker, by beating them, you make their psychological will to survive even more powerful.
I did a lot of self reflection. At least I tried. I discovered that it's not because you are aware of this mechanism. It happens more so that the mechanism works in the background, and then with your will you confirm him, without even knowing it. Because you make all kinds of rationalizations and then, since they make sense to you, you believe them.
If we go by the truth, then the only way to get rid of this evil that we are capable of, is to just never existed in the first place.
Ironically, nihilism strengthens even more this will to survive because it highlights your weaknesses, and thus, your ego became stronger because of it. That's just because he wants to overcompensate it.
Its like your own existence is against others.
We are all narcissists since we all have this ego and his will to survive. It's scary how this hard-coded will to survive makes us to do such things.
I see that's hard to recognize that you are wrong, because if you accept the criticism, then you need to understand what's the explanation for this. Otherwise, there is like a hole in you and also a lot of instability. It's like you are in a void. But since you still exist, then that means that there really needs to be an explanation. The problem is that noone is able to give it to you, and so, this circle of death and destruction continues. This is called the human condition.
What's our reason to justify our own existence? It seems that we don't have any reasons.
Ironically, if we kill ourselves, we still act from the ego. It's funny how we are so blind to what's really going on. Funny and sad at the same time.
So either extremes are from the ego it seems. Victimizing yourself and having an image of yourself. But then, if you can't have an explanation to your own existence, and thus an image of what you are, then how are you able to survive. Likewise, if you can't state the fact that's unfair that you were not given this and that you should be given, then what's the next course of action?
Its like walking in a labyrinth while being blinded. It's impossible to navigate it.
I have more to say, but I want to make sure that's worth what I'm saying.
Tell me what you think! I'm able to accept my mistakes, but I don't want only criticism. Constructive criticism is when you are given the problem, and then you are also given the solution. Therapy is not a solution in itself. It's only a method that leads to a goal or solution.
Edit: Maybe what I'm saying it's all a lie, but then if this is all a lie, then what the truth really is? I'm told that this is a lie, but does the other person know what the truth is? It doesn't know because he is believing the same lies that I believe. He is in the same labyrinth as me. The one who got out of it trully knows what's happening here. We don't.
Original video:
ua-cam.com/video/3an9crV9feM/v-deo.html
Also this. I'm confused now:
ua-cam.com/video/QUreWOILAvk/v-deo.html
Narcissism tends to be egoistic overcompensation, and invariably stems from insecurity about one's worth. Egoistic behaviour is perfectly healthy, but narcissism is a rejection of the supergo, and thus an act of disintegration.
I agree, much victim mentality is inherently narcissistic, notably in those cases where the person seeks to be justified in their continued victimhood and righteous in their judgement of those who display any similar traits to their respective perpetrators. There is in my opinion a fine line between narcissism and victimhood, and it takes much strength to be able to overcome any social trauma without on some level rejecting the superergo.
The sheer brainpower and detail of your theories never cease to impress me! The visuals in this really helped me to understand axial rotation between functions, and I think I can relate to the "jolt" experienced when this happens (which means I'm not as cognitively stunted as I thought! 😀...(Hopefully.))
I just have to ask: what's that pretty picture in the background depicting? (Have noticed it in the last 2 or 3 videos, and was intrigued...!)
Thank you as per! Glad the visuals were useful too - I try and fit them in whenever appropriate these days.
Pretty picture by my good friend Hannah Stringer - she illustrated the eBook too!
Hie to make it easier to access this series do you think you could make it it's own playlist. I see that you already have CPT principles as a playlist but it would make it easier for people to watch CPT explained if it were it's own playlist
Yes, great suggestion! Will do so soon :)
Yeah, the axis shift of ISTPenfj is really sudden. Your book mentions the Social Bipolarity of the ISTP, and a lot of that comes to that switch. Its actually, if you can at least flip the axis fluently, a really effective pair of types for inciting change or selling an Idea to others. The ISTP stage creates a bunch of ideas, while in the social company the ENFJ flip finds an idea and tries to sell other people on it. Back when I used the Social definition of introvert and extrovert, I had a ton of trouble deciding because of this social flip. In the default ISTP mode, I generally am evasive of dealing with others, it's naturally exhausting (social anxiety + Fe oppositional are a match made in hell), but generally spend time living in my ideas, and expanding on them. However, in informal social situations, generally, where I don't have a connection to most of the people there, I tend to just "snap" into the social moment. I'm animated and engaged, really within that moment, but it is tiring to keep up for more than a few hours a day. I retreat back into that creative "bubble" for a sense of safety.
I do think there's a good reason why so many charismatic-innovators have been ISTPs!
Trying to think about the experience of attitudes when flipping on axes. I'm not sure if that applies to all but it does in my experience. I broke it down into 2 actions because I'm failing to explain succinctly as these attitudes seem to be at odds yet happening at the same time:
1. To turn the default convergent function into a divergent one, there's a sense of humility. Stop playing and creating because you are overdoing it or being too perfectionistic on behest of the default divergent function. Stop micromanaging. It's good enough, now act upon it. All of the work you've done with your default convergent functions are put into test and examined where you'd feel overly protective.
2. To turn the default divergent function into a convergent one, there's a sense of aspiration. Realizing that you can rewrite the instructions. Realizing that you don't have to settle if you're not satisfied what what you observed. To revolt and burst through against authority because the work done with your default convergent functions has outgrown or no longer applies with divergent function agenda.
Also I'd like to add a point on the energy management. It seems for the average person, flipping on the axes there's a burst of exerting energy as mentioned in the video. Like a high intensity activity such as sprinting. I think the flipping can also happen at lower intensity leading to a longer period of energy exertion. So it's like jogging or easy hiking. That level of intensity seems to depend on how antagonistic the default divergent function is. Like how intense the physical environment is, how safe the psychological and emotional space is, or how experienced and mentally ready you are. What do you think?
Hey Rob, all of this rings true in my experience, and it is refreshing to hear this framed in a more Fi-Te fashion!
The humility with the convergent shift is something I experience all the time, and I do think it is pertinent to seperate these rotations as we can be consciously aware of, say, the humility on one end without the aspiration on the other, and vice versa.
Yes I like the HIT vs LISS comparison, and the introduction of contextual variation is absolutely spot on. I do find my Se-Fe convergence being far more steady state in safer situations so I think we're on to something here!
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory That explanation really makes sense to me. I find it interesting that you called this framing more Fi-Te. I'm curious, what are the indicators of this type of framing vs Fe-Ti?
Just for clarity:
By "observe" in regards to a function we are talking about not just observation (i.e. mind's eye focus) but as a limiting or influential factor.
So the current convergent function(s) are the mental center from which the ego looks from, not towards. That in order to enact internal change we have to take active possession of a function and not observe it. Also why people can mistake their auxiliary to the inferior as their dominant, because of a certain mental spacial directionality. Like trying to look at your own eyes without a mirror.
If the above are all true, it would seem almost easier to render a function divergent to make the opposing function convergent. Say, by acting in accordance with ones own feelings (i.e. observing Fi) we automatically render Te convergent. "I feel x so will enact change on y external factor". Seeking Yin to change Yang and visa versa.
Does that make sense in the context of what you are talking about or am I off base here? I'm very interested in this from a personal development standpoint. Its proving to be a solid map to work off of as it provides names and directionality for perspective analysis of ones own psyche.
Reading this makes sense. It's a great way of thinking about it
@@tawanakombora_19 I realize, in retrospect that my post came off as declarative. It was supposed to be a question hahah ;D
Yes, I love it and have had similar thoughts myself! It may largely depend on the individual, however - divergence requires surrender of control, which is difficult for all types regarding their dominant function but especially so for certain temperaments.
I think the choice of perspective we can take here can be context-dependent too.
That being said, I cannot deny how effective the divergent>convergent perspective has been for my Te-Fi axis this year!
3:26 Your cognition: I'm gonna do what's called a pro gamer move.
Haha, nailed it
(I'm probably going to make myself very unpopular mentioning astrology on a typology channel, but here goes:)
The cognitive function axes remind me of the opposition aspect in astrology - in other words, if you're not too familiar with that terminology, that's when a person has one planet in a particular sign, forming an 180° angle to another planet in the birth chart, usually in the sign that is in the opposite astrological sign, planetary house, or element.
It's considered one of the more challenging aspects, albeit one that has the potential to produce positive outcomes. The planets involved in an opposition aspect can have very different agendas, and can point to tension or imbalance in a particular area of life, yet at the same time, there can be this great synergistic relationship between them. The energy of one planet informs, and affects the other, and vice versa. A kind of see-sawing effect, if you will.
Anyway, that's just an opinion, I know many people in the type community don't believe in astrology (though I believe Jung himself did?)!
I believe Astrology may be one of those areas of 'metaphorical truth', and certainly don't want to write it off outright. I see consistencies, and some inconsistencies, but there are so many potential explainations for what cause said consistencies that it is rather hard to find a non-metaphorical truth within the paradigm.
That is extremely interesting though; I must confess I was not aware of a directly oppositional/ying-yang relationship within the system. Do you have any links that talk about this synergy is more detail?
Thanks Gina! Hah, yes, Jung was the master of metaphorical truth!
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory
A lot of my knowledge has been gleaned from years of reading astrology textbooks that my mum owned (she did a degree in Psychology, and I think she was exploring this as an area of study) - so it's not really from a single source. But I did find this very helpful website that seemed to sum up the nature of the opposition quite well:
www.liveabout.com/the-opposition-aspect-206531
Astrodienst (astro.com) is probably the best resource on the web for learning about all things astrological. There's quite a lot to digest, if you have the time! I'm afraid I can't pinpoint a single article about Jung, but there are lots of articles exploring the psychological aspects of astrology, references to him crop up everywhere! There is also a search engine on the site, which might make things easier.
Hope that's some help!
Can we speak of "observation" in the context of the judging functions (T, F) ? I find the terminologies confusing in this case.
Check Ben Vaserlan INTj(MBTY INTp) channel stories for more reference points. There he posted the socionics model G for ENFp, INFp and INTp by Victor Gulenko.
Also, you said that CPT has different interpretation. I think that you actually have some similarities from which you can build open.
So I have analyzed some more those socionics profiles, and here are my conclusions:
I think that I lean towards INTp now since now I understand why my INFp friend said that me and my ENTp friend are opposite of each other. He actually projected his view on our dynamic. He has the positive orientation for his Ni, Fe, Te, and Si and the rest have the negative orientation. While for me, I have the positive orientation for Ti, Fi, Se, Ne, and the rest functions have the negative orientation.
Still, I thought for a long time that I was a feeler and stupid. I was raised by mostly feelers. An ISFp mom, an ENFp grandmother, and an INFp aunt.
Thats why when I moved to my ENTj father, I felt that I'm too sensitive in comparison to him. Fi 3rd HSP sensitivity?
I embraced his whole world view until I saw the rigidity of his Te in our mirror relationship, and I tried to convince him to see the whole picture and use his Ni demonstrative. While he saw my Ni ineffectiveness and valued me when I used the demonstrative Te.
A good example of an ENTj is Paul Joseph Watson.
I actually hated his Te as it has no nuance. I valued more to have a holistic framework of things Ti before doing anything.
As I can't just to something wrong just for the sake of doing. Like in comunism. I understand the consequences that my actions have on others and thus I want to avoid making mistakes and encumbering them.
And I also valued theory Ne. But with a practical use. I can get really theoretical if know that this thing works 90% of the time. That's why I need intelectual stimulation which my INFp friend have not offered me. Cause he valued harmony more and he was insecure about his thinking. I told him that I want reciprocity in a friendship since I want exchange of information. I hate playing the teacher role without others giving me freedback and contributing. If I don't get this, then I feel like it's a waste of time and effort as I don't get anything from it. Is not right for just one party to have privileges.
Friendship is mutual. A willful social contract that must be provided with resources specified in its clauses. Otherwise it will die off.
If you read all of this, I appreciate it!
Give me your feedback. I need Ti dominants to improve my thinking strategy.
Till now I got one kind of responses from my ramblings. And that is emotional. I don't want others to be pitying me and secretly thinking that they are right and only being empathetic because they are the good ones. If I know that I'm right it's enough to stop the doubt of my existence. But for this I need the opinion of others. But they give only emotional responses which do not help me at all. I appreciate others being emphatic, but I prefer when they actually give a good response, and by that, I know that they are trully caring and sincere as I know that this is their natural thinking and not some adapted thinking for such occasions. And with this in mind, I won't have to question my entire existence cause I might be wrong and others were right.
Thats why both my INFp and even ENTp friend don't agree with me. Because of my principles. I made those principles cause why should I invest if there would be no reciprocation? Wile they expect me to abide by theirs without aknowledging mine. Such a double standard! This is not love or friendship! This is indifference!
PS: By long philosopical commentary I test my future friends. For me, caring is understanding. Liar is the one who says that cares about me, but doesn't understand me!
You have been tested!
Also it's good info for your databank of socionics observtions. So it's a win win I guess.
Imagine being written 20 something commentaries like this. All having a philosophical slant to them, and subversively challenging your conduct. Just so we can be compatible. Cause a friend is a friend when you demolished his ego(beliefs). Untill then, he will be an enemy covertly working for his own benefit.
I'll check the channel out!
As for feedback, I'm no Ti dominant! Generally though I find this comment hard to digest and draw a consistent narrative/point from - I do prefer it if comments are concise and to the point, as it makes it easier/possible for me to give a proper response :)
Cheers as usual!
Fun fact: There is also a CPT in particle physics. It‘s the Charge conjugation Parity Time reversal symmetry :)
That is totally awesome
Funny, when I hear CPT my thoughts go to CPT codes (stands for Current Procedural Terminology). They're used in medical billing and claim submissions.
11:48- So that's proof that I'm an INTJ?!
So I can't change the world untill I won't be able to change myself. And in conjuction with the Se-Ni feedback loop of death, that makes for a perfect depression.
I would guess that this change between axes is contrary to the main agenda of the ego, right? The fact that I question my own Ni-Se framework?
Also, so that's why now I have an urge to get things done after I came out of my depression? Because of the Te-Fi change? Whilst I kept my main agenda of the ego of self transformation? So they are superimposed now? That's why I feel like there is an internal civil war in me?
And also, before I acted on a Ti framework on how I should get things done. But now I form my own principles in order to affect change. Is that the Ti-Fe unconscious rotation as well?
Because all 4 axes were sweapt and I can't get out of them since my depression locked them?
So my entire being was changed to being upside down now aka esfp subconscious?
Even if I see the world totally different than before now,
I can say that everyone needs a depression, as it is a powerful tool for self transformation and it is like a signal for the need of maintance for the malfunctioning self.
So that means that the usual go getter and achiever stereotype would actually be an ENFP, ENTJ or ENFP since they all have divergent Fi and convergent Te. Whilst an INTJ would be like a depressed and nihilistic Nietzsche, right?
And after a good ol' depression, that INTJ would be able to do the same as them. But first he needs to find the philosopical stone...
So if I was an INFP or ENFP, that would have meant that I wouldn't have questioned my frameworks and my entire being because l wouldn't have had access to the Se-Ni rotation, right? And also, as an ENFP, I would have been able to do the dishes... since I would have had convergent Te, without questioning whether or not it is worth it to clean them in order to eat from them, since I don't know if it's worth to eat in the first place! CPT is better than food! It gives better nutrients than food... to the brain! The main center that keeps my depression rollin'... I wonder, if I were to be on a island, and I would have had access to wifi, would I be able to feed myself only with the frequency on which your videos run on? That is, would I feed myself or my depression? Or would my depression feed the need to survive and then eat in order to watch more of your videos?
PS: Great video! This actually made some things more clear for me! It removed 10% of my doubt of being INTJ! That's a huge procentage! The most till now was 4%! :)
Hey Harry, great video. I was wondering if you find it normal for an ESxP to be quite absent minded? I’m pretty sure that I am an ExxP, but I don’t relate with the Ne descriptions involving “possibilities” and “crackhead behavior”. I actually relate more to Ni descriptions than Ne. However, I also do not relate with the Se descriptions of always being fully present. If there’s one thing I and my family/friends can objectively say is a weakness of mine, it’s my absent mindedness. Maybe I’m in a “grip?” or Ti/Fi can make me absent minded?
Thanks! Any type has the potential to be absent minded - here you may be a more divergent subtype, wherein Ni would exert a greater influence. Se dominants can also find themselves bored owing to lack of experiential intensity!
I see it like this. The demonstrative function is the charging function. But that charge, then is projected or manifested through your auxiliary.
In my case, I feed demonstrative Ti to my Te creative, and in tandem with Ni base, I construct a philosophical system.
The demonstrative can be as powerful as the base as long as it is used constantly. If you stop, then you either stagnate or regress.
This is the function that you need to demonstrate your authority on, and on which you don't like to be told how to use it.
That way, my INFJ friend actually used Ni and with Fi he saw the development of relations over time, and he didn't liked to be told how to use his demonstrative.
While for me, with Ni and Ti demonstrative, I see the development of systems in time, and I don't like to be told how an event will be developed because I already analyzed it. I hate when my ENTj father tells me what will happen and the logic behind that, because I thought about this before him.
Also, it highlights the connection between the ego and the ID. The childlike self and the mature self.
Do you relate?
What do you think?
Also,
Source:
www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/56392-Perspective-on-Demonstrative-Function
Sure, an INTJ's Ti is largely divergent and authoritative, so it can have an uncompromising aspect as logic cannot be ignored, but on the other hand the divergence allows for a certain humility and ease of intaking new information that contradicts previous beliefs.
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory Sums up my depression that started when I was 16 yo after seeing that I can't really trust my father on beliefs as they were to rigid and without nuance.
This is also interesting!
Although I don't agree that subtypes make some of your functions to have higher dimensionality. I think that this is more so because of the prefferances for that sequence, and as such, that preference is strengthened over the others. It's only that this is the active prefferance at one moment in time. That sequence or preference can change at anytime.
Also, I think that a type identifies with both subtypes because they are still *a part of him*. Only that he identifies with the other sequence or subtype in that point in time. However, that sequence is not set in stone.
I also think that we can further simplify this and put them into two categories based on the orientation for either introverted or extroverted functions. As such, an ILI INTp individual having the "subtype" of Ni, he would have a strengthened prefferance for his introverted functions including his Ti and Fi. While an ILI INTp individual having the Te "subtype", would have a general prefferance towards the orientation of his extroverted functions Te and Se.
Note: We can observe that by having a prefferance towards one orientation of a function, we also get a prefferance for the function's nature. With this in mind, an ILI INTp individual Ni "subtype", besides having strong introverted functions like Ti and Fi, we would also have a prefferance towards intuition in general. As such his Ne would also be strong. "And because functions don't work in a void"- Harry 2019 then the strength of a functions would be characterized by the strength of its whole pair that consists of a lens and a codec function. As such, an individual with the aftermentioned "subtype" would have the following "stack" or prefferances:
ILI INTp
Ni-Fi
Ne-Fe
Ti-Si
Te-Se
Note 2: The prefferances are organized in an alternative sequence between an introverted intuitive feeling pair Ni-Fi , and then an extroverted intuitive feeling pair with the same preference in terms of its intrinsical nature and orientation. Then, the next preference alternates in the form of the opposed domminant function in terms of its intrinsical nature. Thus, the next preference would be the concrete introverted thinking pair Ti-Si, and then the final pair would be the concrete extroverted thinking pair Te-Se. That's only based on strength.
Based on actual use, since the second sequance is subservient to the domminant pair, that means that the concrete introverted thinking pair Ti-Si would work for that primary Ni-Fi vision, and then, this would be implemented with the use of the concrete extroverted thinking pair Te-Se. Thus the latter pair having the role of implementation would act as kind of the authoritative function?
So that means that your system is correct and that indeed, the standard MBTY stack of an INTJ of Ni, Te, Fi, and Se is correct. But that's only when the individual is healthy and is able to access and unite his opposing nature. When in an unhealthy state or stressed or depressive state, he would act based on his default predisposition for one orientation and nature of his domminant pair. Maybe?
Note 3:I also think that because of this subservience to the domminant pair, that means that pairs communicate with one another for the scope of fulfilling a unified purpose that is set by the domminant pair.
Note 4: Because of this subservience I think that we can now attribute the convergent nature for the domminant pair that sets the goal, and then we can attribute the divergent nature for the pair that's subservient to it. So all in all, there are 2 primary convergent pairs and 2 secondary divergent pairs . In the case of the ILI INTp, there is the convergent first introverted intuitive feeling pair of Ni-Fi and then the second convergent extroverted intuitive feeling pair of Ne-Fe, and then finally, we have the first divergent introverted concrete thinking pair of Ti-Si and then, lastly, we have the second divergent extroverted concrete thinking pair of Te-Se.
It's like biology all over again with the immune system having a unified goal of killing a virus, and then every cell being specialized in its role of defeating that said virus. The problem now comes when the virus hijacks the cells. Which to a certain extent we can correlate this with the limited human nature in which our human condition make us unable to work on the intended unified sequence and goal that is represented in the ideal "stack" that MBTY emphasizes on. What causes this paralyzing effect on our true nature, I have yet to discover.
That's all my thoughts on this for now.
Link:
typevolution.com/2016/08/28/the-effect-of-subtype-on-functional-strengths-weaknesses/
Edit: Harry, I love your distinction that you made about the pairs of functions. It makes so much sense and it's easier to organize them in this way.
Now I'm sick when others present things in such a simplistic manner and they say that SeNSIng PoLR in INXj is ABoUt BAD FAsHioN SeNSe.
What do you think about this Harry?!
Edit 2: Is your mind imploding like mine have after I have read what I have written, Harry?
Ya
Thank you as per usual!!
I've read about the cognitive function stacks for a while, and I thought about the way I think. I believe it's generally in the order of Se-Ni-Si-Ne. Se first because I have to take external data as inputs. Ni analyzes them, Si relates to my experiences. Drawing upon these three I already have reached a conclusion. I only use Ne in a fringe way (like planning for a contingency), but it's similar to putting icing on a cupcake? I don't know how other people think, so feel free to let me know if your stack order is different.
Also, I know the N-S axis is very identifiable for some. For me it's really hard. But I spent 1 minute (literally) to figure out that I'm Te - Fi.
I don't consider lens functions particularly analytical, but if you imply (for example) Se-Te, to Ni-Fi, that would make sense!
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory That actually makes a lot of sense. I believe the reason I often get tested as ISTJ despite my correct function stack is closest to ENTJ is because I'm using Se - Te when I take these tests.
I didn't know Ni-Fi loop was a thing until I started reading how INTJs go into these loops. And I'm surprised how much I relate haha
I know I’m either an INTJ or an INTP. Does recognizing these types in yourself mean anything for which type I am? If not, is their a question with a clearly defined answer for both INTJ and INTP?
I'll be releasing a comparison between these types at some point - for now I recommend checking out other channel's type comparisons :)
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory So, there isn’t really a clear-cut question yet?
@@priyavraman Needs a video or essay :)
Quick update!
I figured my preference for thinking.
It makes sense why I can't study in my depression. It's because the ILI has Ni and Ti in his ego, and when he experiences any psychological pressure, he hides even more in his ego. The other, extroverted side, being Ne and Te that resides in the unconscious, it becames even more divorced from his ego.
Also, since the ILI is balanced in his thinking functions by having Ti as his aux in the ego, and Te as his demonstrative in the unconscious, that makes for a combination of needing both deductive and inductive reasoning in order to understand aka complete knowledge in how to do the dishes... It makes for a quite elitistic thinking preference style when it comes to his information.
So that means that he needs a lot of data and referance points in order to then even bother analyzing it using deductive reasoning, but at the same time, the large amount of data needs to be organized in a valid form with formal logic. After he sees the main points of a subject using deductive logic, he then can make the leaps and use his inductive reasoning, as he already gathered a base to where he can start his association phase between that data points.
In short, a really depressive ILI INTp can't really study law as it is organized in an incomplete Ti formal logic, and also in an incomplete Te inductive logic, as the ones in the law, are mainly ILIs INTps and what they write, only they can understand.
Also, the ILI seems to gather info mainly using deductive reasoning, and then he manifests it using Te inductive reasoning. So that's the recipe for someone who complains about others not using formal logic and not making valid points, and also giving incomplete information, while the same time, he does the same.
It seems that I understand psychology better than law. So this seems to be because of the fact that psychology uses much more formal logic than law does, and then it supports that logic using some examples here in there. That is because the IEI INFp it makes for the perfect teacher for an ILI as he uses formal logic and he also brings some examples... sometimes. And also, the LII INTj thinking style is pretty consistent with an ILI INTp acquisition of information preference, and to a certain extent the ILE ENTP and LIE ENTJ are also a good choice.
*Example of unintentional inductive reasoning in my last sentences as I haven't stated how those personality types preferences are linked to a teacher that teaches psychology.*
In short, Harry, how can I find a way to learn law without doing it based on repetition and then forgetting it a few days as I have associative memory primarily, and my normal memory is awfull?
Why didn't I go for psychology? Can you finally make CPT an obligatory subject, so then I can equivalate all the procedural disciplines of law, that are based on memorization, with CPT and some socionics?
Also, it also seems that Ti is attached logic as it is attached to its conclusion and process that got to that conclusion. While Te seems to be detached logic as it takes into account all the premises and tries to be impartial, but at the same time, it can end up giving more priority to some premises because of the flawed logic that validated them.
Ti aka deductive logic, in an article that I will mention below, is thought to be the process of explaining someone's intention. While Te inductive logic, it says that's having that intention already implied. And also, it says that inductive reasoning changes based on your subjective situation. Ti is also subjective and changes based on the situation. As Ti being an introverted function, can't function without its extroverted counterpart Te, that actually gives new premises from which Ti can form new criteria that he can apply in the future. Basically meaning that Ti without Te, it applies old and flawed criteria to new information that doesn't fit the truth. But in the mind of the individual it does make sense because he didn't gather those new premises yet, that would actually change his understanding.
My own doctrine now is that Ti seems to be about establishing the main criteria for how the conclusion should look, and it eliminates any premises that doesn't fit that frame with Te evidences and facts, and inductive logic seems to put a lot of emphasis on the potential of a premise in the process of coming to a conclusion based on the Ti criteria.
Ti-process of validation for a conclusion
Te-shortcut based on the risk vs benefit and potentiality of a premise.
Now, I want to highlight why I think that both are necessary. In the link below there is a hilarious example. You will see why.
Example: "John is ill. If John is ill, then he won’t be able to attend our meeting today. Therefore, John won’t be able to attend our meeting today."
Funny part: "That argument is valid due to its formal or logical structure. *To see why, notice that if the word ‘ill’ were replaced with ‘happy’, the argument would still be valid (my INFp friend in a nutshell)* because it would retain its special logical structure (called modus ponens by logicians)."
So in a sense, both Ti and Te can became ignorance. Te can became ignorance in the sense that it sees everything as being evidence when in fact it isn't, and then Ti can became the literal ignorance of staying just in your bubbly bubble and not getting anymore premises with Te inductive reasoning, just because those premises are not organized in a robotic formal logic way.
ILI having both Ti and Te, and thus being balanced, he can put the main points of an argument using Ti, and then with Te he can fill in those points with examples. That's the reason why my essays are so long. *Intentional pleonasm *
Basically that's the perfect combination to make a lawyer, when he can bother himself to read the law, or a philosopher who can smooth talk you using his philosophical stone, or just a simple scientist. The two examples are an example of using it in a deceitiful way when used to the extreme. While the last one is an example of using those preferences in a wise way, as it is more simple to just say that you don't know, than to bring all kinds of incomplete truths just to cover your insecurities.
Of course, to get to the truth, you will need both because they are complementary.
Another fact: Not being able to analyze my comment's assertions and checking if my definitions don't contradict, and instead just checking to give more examples and observations for my assertions. That's because Ni and Ti holistic understanding are being the primary and the secondary, and thus, having a high priority, they are automatic in their use. While Te is actually conscious and tries to prove what the automatic processes says. Interesting loop here. So then, your conscious actually promotes the automatic and unconscious functions. Especially when they are unhealthy.
So that means that an individual consciousness actually resides in the supposed unconscious, and the automated system is actually the ego. Interesting!
Also, it makes sense why in my childhood I had more detached logic than attached logic. I couldn't articulate my opinion because I didn't had the facts to support it. This is also why I learned quicker. It was because I used my supposed unconscious and the Te located in it.
So the supposed unconscious is actually the conscious. While the ego is the manifestation of the supposed unconscious.
So that means that an introvert has conscious extroverted functions, but the manifestation is that of the ego which is introverted, and then for the extrovert in the other way around.
Also, I thought about the unconscious being how the individual sees himself, and I got confirmation fron CS Joseph when I listened to one hof his video. It's interesting that we came to the same conclusion. So then the ego manifestation, or the habit, fools the supposed unconscious of its own faults and bad habits? So then the ego is the enemy! Because it needs to be subdued by the real individual. And the body or the ego manifestation shouldn't be the master of the supposed unconscious that is actually the self but without its manifestation! So then the lie in all of those theories is in making the ego look like it is the conscious and the good one, when in fact he is the unconscious manifestation which it is the real master?
So then you fool yourself by believing that you do what your unconscious preferences are, but in reality, the manifestation is different because of the automated ego that tries to defend the supposed unconscious, but he defends him for his own good? The saying of every tyrant? He thinks that he knows better than the supposed unconscious what's right?
My last thing was just a hypotheses. It is still congruent with the teachings of the desert fathers who said that the body shouldn't overrule the soul.
The link where the funny sentence is located at:
iep.utm.edu/ded-ind/
The second link:
fs.blog/2018/05/deductive-inductive-reasoning/
PS: This was based on my try to learn the law procedures for my session, and then not being able to because the information presented assumes that you read the Ti doctrine first, and then trying to find a way on how to understand that information based on deduction, and then ending up just reading more socionics and then posting this comment. Usual study session!
PS 2: Tell me what you think, Harry!
PS 3: Long update actually...
This is my original interpretation of all of this theory that I defended so much. Take it as you want, Harry! If you want us to share this discovery both, then I would be really happy. I was serious when I said that I either get recognition for this, or we became a team. I prefer the latter one. No intentional inductive reasoning. Only unintentional. Oh the irony! :)
I want to contribute with my insights as well, and I think that we would be a great team. Only my opinion. I don't know yours, but I will be waiting for it!
I know how I'm so arrogant as to ask you this, but depression makes you demolish every insecurity that you had and it makes you see the things as they trully are. So even if it seems like arrogance or neediness, it is about caring of what the truth is, and also having a partner with whom you can get to there. The benefit is doubled in my opinion.
I get to the truth, and then I also have a person who tries to sustain the individuation process in order to get to the truth. So it is only the ones who sustain this process that I can maintain a bond with, as they see their weaknesses and they try to overcome them. This is exactly what I try as well.
Take me as a fool, Harry! But my intention is sincere, and I accept my foolishness, because I'm sick of hiding it. I accept it fully! Truth and honesty are much more important! Because then, by seeing my foolishness and fighting against it, then I can finally became wise.
Edit: Initially I wanted to merge this comment with the primary one, but I had already exceded the characters limit. It is my first time achieving such a thing!
PS: you can completely reject what I said, but please, don't assume that I'm an ENFP for my openness, as every time, I get criticism, I get a feeling that is not right, and then I try to check if it is right, and I still can't prove that I'm wrong.
Its like being a pig that is baited with carrots, and then when he thinks that the carrot is close to him, the one baiting the poor big retracts it back. While at the same time, when the pig looses hope, the carrot is again close to him, but he never reaches it fully. It's just the doubt of death that makes a good counter point against your position, and then you immediately relate to it so that you can be against your subjectivity and biases, but then it turns out that the counter argument lacks the sufficient information and it also turns out that it is wrong. As it started from old and rusted criteria that don't apply to the data that's required for caming to that conclusion. Basically my problem with Ti doms that just assume things without really checking or even ILI INTp. You still are not a Ti dom, so I think that you actually take your time to find what's actually correct and not only what seems to be, but I still thought that it was needed to be specified. I accept my fate, I'm an ENFP or EII INFj. Still, can I get out my crippling doubt against my ENFPness and INFPness that becames even worse at night?
If I say that I'm ILI INTp, I get the doubt that I don't have enough evidence for it. If I say that I'm an EII INFj or IEE ENFP, I get the doubt that's not right and that it contradicts with some arguments that I have based on whatever article, point that I have, or reference points from others. Which one is it?! It seems like surrender is not an option as it seems that the Geneva Convention is not respected by my being basically, and I still get hunted down.
Is this the Te or Fi inductive reasoning that enforces the bad habits, by acquiring the evidence needed, in order to attest for my unworthiness and then creating a circle of death?! But then, based on my last hypotheses, it would contradict as the Te inductive reasoning is in the supposed unconscious which I proved that it's the conscious actually. Or is the Fi from where all of this cames, and then Ti find a reason for it, and then Te finds the evidence needed? So then Fi is the hub from where the ego leads its operations? It's this the nexus that got damaged and because of this it is in need of repair?
So then Fi is the body or the ego, and then Ti is the soul, but it validates the needs of the body, when the body is on top of it? And then, the Ti needs to have integrity and to subdue the Fi body and take the role of the master as he it is the soul, maybe?
This is also one of my hypothesis.
It also seems like my emotions are invalid by default in this state of depression of mine.
Source:
pin.it/7Chd9VI
I also relate to those 5:
www.quora.com/What-does-it-look-like-when-an-INTP-gets-angry/answer/Logan-Oetting?ch=10&share=c00428c0&srid=3gmTT
www.quora.com/What-does-it-look-like-when-an-INTP-gets-angry/answer/John-Smith-34329?ch=10&share=3b7e784b&srid=3gmTT
www.quora.com/What-does-it-look-like-when-an-INTP-gets-angry/answer/Migael-de-Groot?ch=10&share=2eb5b24e&srid=3gmTT
www.quora.com/What-does-it-look-like-when-an-INTP-gets-angry/answer/Nathan-Johnston-6?ch=10&share=59f28266&srid=3gmTT
www.quora.com/What-does-it-look-like-when-an-INTP-gets-angry/answer/Daniel-Duquenal?ch=10&share=f570d22d&srid=3gmTT
Additional stuff:
Also, what personality would you think that a fox or a hedgehog are?
I think that a hedgehog spikes represent pretty well an ILI Fe "trickster" when interacting with others in an unpleasant manner, and it also represents their "tertiary Fi" with their vulnerable little faces that hides in a Ti spiky framework.
Just my guess
Note: I asked this last thing as there was an experiment made on foxes in the 80s, in USSR, regarding the scientists try to find out how the wolf got its friendly genes and transformed into a dog. In this experiment, they selected non aggressive foxes, and then they did breed them, giving rise to a more friendlier kind of a fox.
In another experiment, they put a human in a circle, and then they let one of those foxes in. The fox entered the room, and it greeted the human by smelling him, but they never crossed the circle. Usually they just left the proximity area where the human was in. Then, they brought a dog who immediately, after seeing the human, he run right through the circle in his lap.
I think that this can be correlated with Fi and Fe to a certain extent. They also said that this kind of breed was possible only when both parents has those genes, hence why they selected non aggressive foxes only, and also that the DNA is flexible and that the genes can be changed easily. This also proves the fact that humans are really adaptable. I think that this can be applied to all organisms having DNA. Regarding this, they also said that the foxes genes changed according to experience as well. So it seems that the organism is self suffienct in way and it can change according to the environment and the current needs. The question now remains, is that just the automated "ego" of the animals coded by the DNA and it is different than a normal human functioning? So then humans have something called freewill which is linked to having conscious control. Or are humans still hard coded by this law of the ADN and they can't change it by themselves, and it changes only automatically according to the needs?
So, in conclusion, you then relate to the animals and the organisms that share your prefferances because they have the same DNA coding as you?
I'd really suggest checking out my Type Service at some point, that's really the only way I can afford to give all of the information you want to impart the time of day it likely deserves.
That being said, the Fi-Te/Te-Fi here is intense, I have little doubt these are the doorways involved.
Re: your question regarding legal matters, it does sound like you may benefit more from a holistic, principle-based (or even teleogical) approach - what is the pattern and overriding principle. A lack of capacity for rote memorisation *may* imply a relatively unconscious Si, such as that of the ENTJ.
I place Ti in an INTJ outside of the ego - it is something to be observed an integrated; the ENTJ Ti is naturally extensive of the ego.
If you know who thereportoftheweek is I'm curious what type you think he is. A lot of people seem to think he's an ISTJ but I'm not quite sure about that.
Harry, tell me what you think about this system.
Since my last comment, I have made some kind of a synthesized model to work on.
Those are my results.
ENTP:
I. Conscious:
Ne
Te
Fe
Se
In the conscious, we have the first function with the third, and the second with the fourth.
We have 2 two sequences:
1.Ne+Fe looks at the macroscopic social aspect
2.Te+Se is about creating rules in the environment
The first sequence is the domminant one, while the second is subservient to the first. Thus, an ENTP in his ego will implement changes only to appease to his domminant program or sequence of being validated by others for showing his skills.
II. Subconscious:
Se
Fe
Te
Ne
In the subconscious, we observe that the functions have changed.
The domminant is now at the bottom and vice versa. Not only did the order change, but also the codec and lens pairs. The sequences are now as follow:
1. Se+Te implementing changes in the environment
2. Fe+Ne...
Now, the domminant preffered sequence is being secondary, and it is now subservient to the secondary sequence. In this way, the ENTP will now have implementing changes as his main priority, but he will still be guided by his slightly changed main sequence in doing so.
Note, this change is more aking to an ESFP. Still, the subconscious is not as preffered as the conscious. But it is the subconscious in which you progress and move towards your destination which is the image of the super-ego.
III. Unconscious:
Ni
Ti
Fi
Si
In the unconscious, we have different roles, but with the same prefferance for intuition and thinking. The unconscious is in direct opposition to the conscious. So every following sequence from here will be in conflict with it.
The sequences are as follows:
1. Ni+Fi reflecting and forming a philosophy on which the ENTP will follow
2. Ti+Si rigid understanding of a system aka fact checker
We observe that since the unconscious sequence is in direct conflict with the sequence from the conscious. Since the priority in the conscious was for the macrosocial level and not for the individual one Ne+Fe-Ni+Fi, and also since the external environmental changes were more emphasized and not the structured internal frameworks Te+Se-Ti+Si, here the trickster attitude will came into place.
The individual will think that he will be reflecting, but he will do this from the standpoint of his main sequence of the conscious. The same applies to thinking. He will think that he forms a structured framework, but he will aquire it only after an implementation phase.
The unconscious is where the change takes place, to then be implemented in the subconscious and finalized in the super-ego.
Super-ego
Si
Fi
Ti
Ni
In the super-ego, the individual needs to completely renounce his identiy in a way since here the sequence is not only in opposition to his conscious one, because it is connected to the unconscious, but those are the prefferances in which he puts the least effort in usually. This is the last destination that an individual needs to reach before being ready to embrace death.
The sequence is as follows:
1. Si+Ti having an organized and structured evidence based framework
2. Fi+Ni...
Here is true self reflection for an extrovert. Since the ENTP will have to form an understanding based on evidence, but will also have as auxiliary his self reflections which he will need to prove. This is where he will put his reflections on the test in the search for the Truth.
This amount of self reflection is quite unusual to be invested for such an active individual as an ENTP. But here is where all his investments will have their returns.
Note 1: I made some things up in order to fit this model. They may not be correct. Please, don't kill me, Harry!
Note 2: This is a rough model that can be improved upon. I just needed the canvas on which to paint those new concepts.
Note 3: I'm waiting for your input, Harry!
I like where you are going! Not a huge fan of the Beebe model but this is a cool way of blending it :)
I'm not sure I'd block it out in this manner, or into stages at all, but the first three are pretty cool. Never got where Beebe was going with the super ego, however, as, say, an ISTJ to INFJ seems as extensive of default cognition as ENFP. Just internal trajectory rather than external :)
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory I'm glad that you found this useful!
I think that the ego and the subconscious are about manifestation. How you conduct yourself in the world.
While the unconscious and the supposed super-ego, are how your mind is mapped out internally.
Socionics model G represents this difference pretty well. They have also removed the 4 sides of the mind, but I thought that it's a good reference point. I agree that you are not transforming or anything like that it's just that you became more aware of your capacity, and then you can try different internal sequences which would appear as a different manifestation of the internal sequence itself. All of those possible sequences would still be in your mind alghoritm like to speak.
I don't know! I can't help it! I think of the mind as a giant computer with trillions of lines of codes. Maybe it's because, if it is like this, then we can understand the code, and use it to our advantage, and as such, sustain the maintanance work that's required because of our human condition. To then lessen its effects on us and then became fully functional. That's why I think that our entire existence is like a sandbox game. You have the rules of the game, and then you use those rules in order to maintain your survival, in the lower levels, and to attain abundance on the higher levels. While I think that the highest level is to acknowledge that you are the code or program and the programmer yourself. That means that you are part of everything and everything is part of you. Like a hive mind. Only that you have more autonomy than what a regular hive mind implies.
It's just an Ni hypothesis! But this can then be analyzed further and then it can get us to truth, maybe...
Sources for the socionics model G :
m.facebook.com/ModelGpage/
varlawend.blogspot.com/2018/12/model-g-explanation.html?m=1
And a possible correction to it:
wholesocionics.blogspot.com/2019/11/model-g-and-how-to-fix-it.html?m=1
Maybe I'm sharing those sources and links with no purpose. Maybe you have already checked them and I'm just being silly.
Edit: Tell me if you agree or disagree and where you think that I'm wrong!
Can you make a video about the links between generations(x,y, z etc.) and cognitive functions?
What a fantastic idea!!
8:42- So it's like a feedback loop... aka depression...
Since it is different information than what the ego is looking for.
Feedback loops are every in the Psyche, an internalisation and externalisation is a healthy feedback, whereas constant chronic internalisation is to be more likened to depression :)
It's just odd. Even though I have now reached an epiphany of mine that I'am an ISFP, I'm still skeptical about it because whenever I relearn your theory over and over again, I always find myself wondering if I really did arrive at a solid conclusion. I have taken the tests that you have suggested online and I've been tested INTP simultaneously. It just feels like my type is nowhere to be found within this system. I know I'am smart enough to make and adapt to novelties and changes but not intelligent enough to meet my expectations for myself. I only just have the right amount of grit and perseverance that I need to maneuver into this world. I have a natural sense of understanding concept but what slows me down is my uncertainty and my need for proper clarification. For example, Whenever I came across something that is oblivious to me, I will just step back and just observe and understand that specific un-clarification in my own pace, even if it's a dialogue from a film that I fail to grasp first time hearing it. That is why I perceive myself as stupid to not digest in what is in front of me in a much more faster pace. It's like at the back of my mind I know the answer on it intuitively, without any conscious reasoning and understanding. Its like in my head there is a picture or a pattern that I'am following that only makes sense inside my head but when you really think of it thoroughly, it starts to get incomplete and I just can't resist the intellectual challenge of not understanding concepts and ideas. Intuitively speaking, I know the answer because I have an unconscious pattern inside me but the moment I try to make it sensical is also the moment that hits me hard and it takes me sometimes minutes in just understanding a single dialogue in-depth, and when I say in-depth just picture Baykal Lake's depth. And then after that I feel paradoxical about myself. Relieved because I finally understood it and sad because of how slow I can be. I think I'am more of an NT thinker when I'am talking about the logic of philosophy, psychology, existentialism, and at the best days, even physics and formal sciences of reason. Its like whenever I came up with something that is oblivious to me at first my brain tend to function in default of just perceiving things not making a concrete judgement upon it but when I do want a concrete judgement upon it, I tend to put an effort on creating it but abstraction and diversity to me, feels like home. I came into a conclusion that I have a mind of an NT type but not a cognition of one. It's hard to explain because to me subjectivity to one's self is very abstract that's why I mixed feeling on it because I perceived my relationship with subjectivity a rather reluctant and adequate one but when it comes to making sense of it, its a hodgepodge. I really do like analyzing my cognition and making sense of it but I'am just not sure if I'am perceiving the right cognition because over the course of 8 months of my typological journey I've been able to mistype myself like 6 times and most of the months are spent neglecting and reluctant to admit the possibility of me being an S-type and here I'am finally I have overcome that biases and prepared a red carpet for myself as I finally got to entertain that I'am an ISFP but still to this date, I'am still doubtful about it but I'am always open for alternatives but the downside of it did make me feel like I'am inconsistent. Back then I'am afraid that I'am an S-type because I feared that it will change my point of view as a person because I'am loving the realm of N-types. It's so broad and objective that it captured my intellectual hunger for bigger questions. All in all, I feel and think that my type is nowhere of be found and geez I'am a mess. Still hoping for concrete answers to end my feud with my brain because gosh it's so exhausting hanging out with yourself and it's much more exhausting to hang out with a group of people. So yea here I'am hoping for answers.
The harsh truth is that not everyone fits into one of 16 boxes - there are interstices between these boxes, and while I have yet to release the CPT Type Spectrum there are many, many people relatively in between two different types.
Here are some types 'proximate' to ISFP:
INTJ
ESFJ
INTP
-- ISFJ
-- ENTJ
It can be frustrating to not fit solidly into a single category, but it is certainly not unusual :)
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory thanks for the lift up. My proximation of my possible types are the following: ISFP, INFP, ENFP, ENTP, INTP, and INTJ. You see, I mostly relate on all of the N-types out of the 16 categories. Now creating a new way of understanding my cognition and I have hypothesized that your interests could potentially be break down into pieces on why you are specifically interested in a certain topic and then came up with a grasp of idea what could your cognitive functions are (relative to the Jungian functions). I think the better solution for my problem and most of everybody's problem is to focus your understanding of yourself on your interests and create a logic and reason on answering the -WH questions. So yea Harry thank you for your response I do appreciate it a lot. Now I understand why Jordan Peterson is reluctant on entertaining the MBTI system and theories related to it. P.S. I think Prof. Peterson is an ISFP.
@@arrongarciaSTEM I also consider him an ISFP!
@@arrongarciaSTEM I have almost the same problem. I just can’t type myself.. it’s been four years now
It’s me again. It’s been 3 years since I last posted this comment. How nostalgic it is to look back to my typological journey because it was a pivotal moment in my life. Throughout the timeline at which this comment was posted, I have spent the majority of my time entertaining complex and abstract topics pertaining to the fields of philosophy, mathematics, and different form of sciences. I am a biology student which I deem to be a healthy mix of abstraction and practicality for it allows me to contemplate the wonders and perplexing nature of life while also learning practical laboratory and research skills. I could have gone to fields mathematics or physics but I chose not to for I perceive myself to be “intellectually lacking” in terms of these subjects. What I meant by it is that despite my interest and passion towards the fields of symbolic logic (math), I realized that I need to work extra harder than everyone else in order to be great at what I am doing. This realization was not ideal for me since I am a naturally creative thinker and if such a nature of study is to only dedicate my time mastering by exhaustive methods of practicing all day long, then my creative mind would be limited. I do not have the patience to do such a thing. Hence why I made the decision to not pursue the fields related to mathematical sciences. On the other hand, although my passion is in the fields of mathematics and logic, my talents and skills lies in the fields of philosophy and psychology. As shown in my comment here, I have spent a great deal of time exploring the scientific and mystical nature of the human mind, albeit by philosophical, psychological, or neuro-scientific means. However, I chose not to pursue it because the more I explore the human mind (and as a consequence explore the nature of humanity in general), I tend to get progressively depressed, hopeless, and pessimistic - traits that I do not want to associate with myself. Being a deep thinker took a toll in my mental health. Hence why I decided to choose the field of biology as, in my perspective, shows balance between my passions (maths) and talents (philosophy). This is also my pre-med course, for throughout my 4 years of exploring myself, I have realized that my true calling is to be a paragon of human understanding, albeit through logic or emotion. Hence why I am dedicated to be a neurologist/psychiatrist. I suppose the point that I am trying to make by sharing my journey is that I found myself not through identifying my MBTI but by exploring all things I find interesting. It was my curiosity, not my intelligence or conscientiousness, that brought me to my purpose in life. I am quite a rational person but this is one irrational thing that I will allow myself to believe in. Some people are drawn in MBTI and other personality types because they are trying to find themselves. Often times these people think that they are taking the most rational approach by relying on a systematic, psychological assessment to give them the answer that they desire. I concur with the belief that knowing yourself is truly the greatest superpower one can possess, and it’s all within our grasp. But typology and personality theories can only take us so far. Explore yourself through your own means and methods in the most undisciplined and chaotic manner possible. That’s where you find who you are. I would like to point out that despite sounding as if I disprove of the MBTI and other personality types, I still do use it to this day but not as a way to absolutely identify one’s personality or character, but as a way to approximate. I believe such a thing would be helpful to really get to know someone. But alas, all methods must be adjusted accordingly to the problem at hand, hence not every time will MBTI work on different scenarios. To make my leave, it was Harry and all other typologist UA-camrs as well as my philosophical explorations that helped me find myself. So, thank you. I appreciate this community to the fullest of my heart’s content. Thank you all. Godspeed.
Hello dear Harry, how are your eyes doing?! Hope the recovery is going as smoothly as planned!
Thanks Arasch! They're doing really well, thanks for asking - so well that I'm intending to get in front of the camera next week!
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory Awesome, can't wait!
Trying to guess the subject already, but can't triangulate what the subject may be (Courtesy of Ne) ;-)
This is the EII socionics description on wikisocion. I have visited the IEI domain and I can't understand anything. Based on this, could it be that the EII description is actually for IEI and vice versa?
Link:
wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=EII_domain
Also, the LII description fits better with the ILI Ti divergent subauthority function that demands logical consistency.
Link:
wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LII_domain
Another thing is that the description of the IEE sounds more like its about Fe trickster. The thing about IEE pursuing romance and being oblivious to the fact that it's just a friendship, that also sounds like Fe trickster.
Link:
wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=IEE_domain
Maybe I'm an IEE and I don't know it. Whatever.
Please shed some light Harry!
It seems that socionics is talking about convergent functions as divergent and vice versa. If the ILI has Fi convergent then that means that he has difficulty using it. For the EII they mention that since EII have Fi dominant(convergent) they have a hard time using it. The same should apply to the ILI Fi and Fe convergent.
The descriptions are all over the place!
This is awesome. Coming from a Personality Junkie background, this makes so much more sense than the "inferior grip" explanation. I do have a couple of questions:
During an axis flip, all funtuon roles, switch, right? So the Convergent Auxiliary, not the Dominant function, becomes the Authority function?
I guess my real question is about the divergent stack: I understand that the divergent stack observes and interprets the static rules to limit the convergent stack, but which function is in the pilot seat in defining those rules--the divergent function or the authority function?
I guess I should just request a video about the divergent stack and authority function.
Great stuff! I look forward to learning more about CPT in future videos.
Yes that's spot on! Upon an axial rotation what was once the dominant area becomes the oppositional, and therefore the realm of static observation :)
What's a specific example of an extroverted thinking to introverted feeling jolt?
A stress response whereby a sudden responsibility is thrust upon the Fi dominant and obstacles must be creatively overcome in the process. The person may even surprise loved ones with the sudden hardness of character.
Do INFJ use the Ni--Se axis often?
I feel like my whole life is built around Ni and Se is used to enrich the possibilities of Ni.
You responded in the Wrap-up !
I’ve watched like every video and I’m so lost. Maybe I truly don’t know myself
It does take time to integrate the theory within yourself too
When you put a judging function in the divergent spot, what do you get? On one hand, it's perceiving because of divergent spot, and on the other hand it's judging because the function is by nature a judging function. Isn't that a contradiction?
If i understood it correctly, no it's not perceiving. It's the lens functions that are perceiving, a judging function in a divergent position is mostly being observed and abided by, rather than actively engaged and actively taken responsibility for. Maybe you mixed up the terms observing and perceiving.
I.e a divergent Fi is a sense of identity that is mostly static, a person isn't actively engaging in an Fi lymbic dialogue, but rather the Fi is being passively observed at the behest of propelling a Te dom agenda. It is serving as an inspiration and pushing a Te agenda forward. In the case of an Fi convergent, however, Fi is a part of a ego complex, it's a dominant line of judgement, it's being thought about and engaged most of the time, and Te external world is mostly being observed, analysed, drawn inspiration from, the Te means are being used to satisfy the Fi needs/wants etc.
I hope my explanation makes sense, as i'm not a native eng speaker.
@@gilded_spark_7022 thanks for trying to explain it to me. I've moved on though from this channel, and now I'm focusing on watching CSJoseph. I think his theoretical model on the subject just makes a lot more sense and there is so much more depth on his channel (unlike the maker of this video) and it's more relatable with my observations of how people actually behave (rather than being just theory floating in thin air detached from reality).
@@BookofYAH777 You're welcome. I see. I don't really like C.S.Joseph's approach to the functions, but to each their own i guess. There are some good points that he makes, but in general i find it to be very relative and sometimes driven by personal positive or negative experiences, sometimes driving away from explaining the actual cognitive makeup and how functions operate together. I find CPT to be the most objective and among the best explanation of the actual cognitive types, without the unnecessary generalisations and stereotypes. Yes, it is a bit too abstract and complicated when you frist start watching it, but the more you learn and ponder about it you see how it fits together and makes sense. I can identify the types much better now than before, by observing both the behaviour and general thinking/feeling patterns and predispositions, and i understand how they work. But i do understand how people think it's a bit too theoretical, esp at the begining of the CPT journey. And i would suggest Harry to use more of real life examples, so people who have a hard time with abstract stuff would better understand how fuctions display etc.
Edit: sorry for a long comment again lol
Are you planning on doing a vid on ESTPs at some point? I'd love to hear what you have to say about my type.
Edit: ESFP 😅
I noticed your update on your eye surgery. I hope your recovery is smooth :)
ESTP video coming soon :)
I'm recovering well, thanks for asking!
Hello CPT! Been a while since you last video, hope all is well!
Hey Daniel, thanks for checking in! I took an extended break to allow my eyes to recover from laser eye surgery, and have used the time to plan how I'd like to attack this year - expect a new video next week!
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory Hey!
Good to hear man! I hope you recover well, and fast from your surgery! Much love and appreciation for you and your work!
Here's something interesting:
www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/118-Temperaments
I relate to the socionics IP temperament(ILI, IEI, SLI, SEI).
I'm fascinated by my depression and I try to find ways to get out of it, like studying it even more(indefinitely) in order to then find a solution, therefore dwelling even more on it!
So depressed ILI confirmed?
Like him?!
ua-cam.com/video/wMOM34XEi2k/v-deo.html
On personality database he is typed as ILI.
My philosophy starts from the depths of Hell like his, but I try to ascend since that's why I still live. And also, because being born, implies a slight hope.
Also my philosophy for friendships is as dark as his, but I work towards a good ending as well. Still, its pretty hard to integrate it since nihilism on the surface appears better, but that's why I dive deeper in this black hole. To see if I will get in another galaxy or I will be disintegrated by it.
Or maybe he's an EII MBTY INFP?!
I just wanna talk to a fellow IP(IEI-something something Ha... something rry)! :)
Also wouldn't an INTJ(ILI) delve deep in philosophy, especially in depression, since he will use his dominant Ni and convergent auxiliary Fi more? Plus some Ti from the 3rd dormant state?
PS: I hope that you read my other comments. You don't have to respond to them. The mere fact that you got something from them, and you would integrate them in your understanding and system, is enough for me. Replying to them would be a more clear sign of this, but I'm satisfied with that as well.
I see it like this. Ni creates a synthesis based on all the information, facts and ideas, and then coupled with Ti, it creates an opinion based on the matter.
Synthesis seems to me that's Ni and
Evaluation seems to me that's the Ti evaluation based on the Ni synthesis.
I'm confused. If we go by the introverted prefferance model, then the stack for the INTp would be Ni, Ti, Fi, Si. Still, besides Ni synthesis I also present Ti and Fi evaluations. I can't figure which one is stronger. Based on socionics, Fi is the launcher and so, my analysis starts from a philosophical dilemma, and then I try to solve it using Ti logic. The fact is that then I can't use my Fi untill I won't get the Ti evaluation. It's like my emotions that are led by my philosophy, are restricted till I have the explanation for their validity, and for that I first need to validate my philosophy. Because my philosophy is the one guiding my emotions. I can go against this weird feeling that I'm against myself when I want to do something that doesn't seem to be rational. But it's not worth the hassle, and I prefer to find a way that makes sense, and then I won't have to force myself to do anything because my emotions won't be against me anymore since my Ti philosophy would be validated.
I think that this can be explained within your system with Fi convergent auxiliary, and then if you were to make the change based on the introverted preference style, with Ti authority for the INTp. Still, which one is conscious and which one is unconscious? Which one is stronger and which one is weaker. Cause Fi convergent auxiliary could be conscious but it can also be weaker at the same time. My question is, would the the 2nd function be stronger than the 3rd when taking into account this introverted vs extroverted prefferance change?
Source:
pin.it/4VaLMyw
Reconciling Socionics with other systems like this can certainly be a fun challenge! Fi in the INTJ is more intense than Ti, but the latter is nonetheless the dormant state, and thus a source of inspiration for Fi transformation + a substrate to be more reverently observed.
"logic in ethical types is *normative* , and therefore they are highly concerned with "logicalness" of their thoughts and actions. "
By this very reason, the ILI INTJ seems to be categorized as a feeler because he has Ti authoritative function.
Also, I'm not an ENTj cause I take observed phenomena, but my interpretation for them is based on the internal connections that I form internally. So my scope is not as much external E, as in fact it's more subjective I. Cause I confirm my internally formed theories I based on reality E.
I know that this is one of the criteria that you typed me on! The Jungian E vs I dichotomy thats it's discussed in this article, and that states that extroverts are more "objective" as they are directed externally, and introverts, are more "subjective" as they are directed internally. One is directed towards the object external manifestations, and the other is directed towards the object internal manifestation. My philosophy is all about the internal manifestations! Plus, I discover my own new relationships between objects. Those are also discovered internally!
Link:
www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/412-On-the-correct-understanding-of-dichotomy-Logic-Ethics-in-Socionics
@Rion Could you elaborate?
some people say it's impossible for a psychopath to have a type cuz they have no fear, morality and empathy. what do you think?
Absolutely not, a psychopath still has cognitive preferences and still forms self-concept. An ability to empathise shuts off a capability of Feeling, but not Feeling itself :)
Thank you for the answer! Your videos are awesome!
I relate to this when it comes to me and my mother's boyfriend. It seems that I exhibit ESFp subconscious traits and I criticize the hell out of my mother's boyfriend actions and logic:
www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/64-Duality-Relations-INTp-and-ESFp-by-Stratiyevskaya
And my INFp friend seems to be the same. He exhibits ESTp subconscious characteristics and he puts a lot of value on customs and ethicacy which I find irelevant and fake:
www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/373-Duality-Relations-ESTp-and-INFp-by-Stratiyevskaya
Edit: I wonder how you can keep up with me, Harry!
I do think this area of cognition tends to be underestimated!
Harry, can you type this dude from a socionics forum on a thread about the games that different types are most likely to play, please? He resonates with me a lot!
Externally maybe I'm like what you saw, entj like in my manner of communication or logic, but internally my Fi is really dominant.
Note: Harry this is kinda of true for me as well. Slow reaction time in processing new information when I don't have yet formed a web of knowledge for that particular subject. The article below says this about INTjs LII, but I think that strong visual memory and imaginary qualities applies more to the ILI which has Ni as his domminant function. Cause Ni is the other side of Si. So it works in images instead of memory.
Link: www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/245-Are-INTjs-the-slowest-in-receiving-information
Also "In the ILI Te is about collecting facts to run models and thought processes to get a sense of the outcome of various scenarios..... i.e. the caster strategist". Now that's what keeps me awake at night.
I relate to that as well and with everything from the following link.
Source:
www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/7671-Differences-between-ILI-INTp-and-SLI-ISTp/page3
Take a look:
"Damn, now I'm freaked out. I was thinking about starting a thread just like this today (although from the opposite direction that polikujm took, rather getting us to relate our own personal experiences with games and the way we play them and then saying, "hmm...interesting!") Anyway, now I'm going to be thinking about intuition and subliminal messaging for awhile...ugh.
Personally, I don't play games very much. I mean, I like them, but I kinda always feel like I should be doing something worthwhile and focused towards, you know, a goal. And I usually have plenty of projects laying around that I (should) be doing.
I don't play role-playing games either as the real world is interesting enough as it is, and I can't "role-play" for very long without getting bored and just wanting to be myself. Plus I used to play a MUD back in high school and know how time-consuming it can be. I knew kids in college who played stuff like WoW, and that's pretty much all they did. Kind of annoying when you want to be friends with them...or have a relationship... (ugh.)
I love chess personally and was in my high school chess club for a year. As a chess player, I'm like the slowest guy you will ever play, mainly because I'm overly cautious and go through multiple possibilities rather slowly (weak Ne, I guess. I remember my ENTj friend being like this too.) Funny enough, that trait by itself allowed me to win a number of games, because the faster players would get bored and lose track of what was happening (and they'd get pretty annoyed at me for it too.) Of course, the joke's on me when the game's timed as I get nervous as hell and have an impossible time concentrating when someone throws a clock into the mix (this pretty much goes for anything I do in general, well, for things where I have to think, anyway.) Personally I'm a positional player mainly who likes closed games over open ones, as it slows things down by default, adds a little variety (open games tend to all look the same), and gives me more of a sense of 'struggle', as I don't really like when things go so easy. When I was in the chess club, I was probably the only guy who went home at night and did research on how to play the game better. I pretty much always do this with everything, though, wanting (or rather, needing) to gather enough information about an endeavor beforehand and not just go into something blindly (although there are times when I don't do this and am a bit impulsive. I don't know, it's hard to explain, but whatever, Te valuing anyway.) I was always just a bit afraid of letting people know I did this, not wanting to be called 'stiff' or 'unsure' or 'know-it-all' or...something. Anyway, when I think about moves in chess, I'm kind of limited in my outlook about horizontal possibilities and rather approach them through the lens of time (Ni), and I constantly recheck my decisions again and again...and again and again and again and again and again and (wait, I'm not done yet) again and again and again and again and again (ok, now I'm done. ) That's mainly why I'm so damn slow at chess.
Another game I love is Monopoly. It gives me a hard-on (yeah, I know, money and Gammas and all those stereotypes... ). This is a completely different game for me. I don't think there's much to strategy as most of it's just luck, and it took me awhile to learn that a good way to win is just to buy everything you land on. So you wouldn't think there's much fun in it for someone like me. Well, that's if you play the game honestly and don't cheat. What I get out of it is manipulation practice and testing how far I can go in cheating (which I tend to do for other games as well, and which is why I am a bit afraid in entering the business world if I ever got the chance, because I can be ruthlessly competitive and in an area where you can really hurt people, what kind of person would I be?) In Monopoly, I'm the kind of player who "wheels-and-deals", so to speak, trying to work with people's needs and wants to convince them that they should trade me this property for that or sell or buy from me this and that, all the while hoping they don't understand the game too well. And really, how else are you to supposed to win? My cousins know me too well and have learned never to do business with me in this game, haha. Yeah, I realize that doesn't sound like typical INTp behavior, but it's fun.
I also like plenty of card games for various reasons, but I've already said enough, so...
As for the topic at hand, I agree with octopuslove too, and we need to look at both the internal aspects of the game (thinking-based, feeling-based, engagement, whether it's tactical or strategic, whether it's fast-paced or slow) and the external aspects (camaraderie, emotional atmosphere, and in general how it affects the group and the individual in a social or emotional way, when playing with multiple people, anyway.) I'm still relearning Socionics, so I don't really have anything to contribute in this direction..."
Thanks in advance, Harry!
Note: Again I don't expect you to answer those questions because I do not want to take advantage of your good will. I just want you to just check them out. If you keep them in mind in your theory crafting, that is enough for me.
Also, if I don't share my ideas and perspectives I feel that the fire inside me burns me. It's like in this way, my discoveries are protected since they are now in the hands of another individual and he takes the responsabilty away from me. Typical ENFp. Maybe, maybe not...
At a glance seems like a CPT/MBTI ENTJ - the Fi is static (lots of I do's and I don'ts) and something that must be accepted and rationalised upon. There also seems to be a degree of impatience, implying convergent Se :)
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory OK thanks. But his mode of expression is more conscious. He's consciously realizing his likes and dislikes. While an ENTj with Ni and Fi divergent I don't think that has such a power for self reflection. That is, here it applies the following principle that introverts are on *average* more reflective than extroverts.
Also, Harry, an ENTj Ni-Fi divergent authority pair cannot be discussed. Since it's part of the authority function sequence, it means that it's more rigid in the acquiring and processing of the information. That is, here in the case of the ENTj, this should be clear how his Te domminant limits the amount of information needed to take in order to take a decision. What I'm saying is that an ENTj by his program is more rigid than an ILI INTp. The latter is more open not only in receiving new information, but in also adapting to those new viewpoints if they are considered to be correct. An ILI is swayed easier by other perspectives, and he would want to identify with everything and everyone. That is so he won't ignore essential aspects of reality by his ignorance and hate of certain aspects of it, and thus also being unjust to reality. Also, don't forget that the INTp Ne-Fe pair is in the convergent position as well. That means that he takes conscious responsabilty to adapt to others viewpoints and needs easier.
While an ENTj with the Ne-Fe subauthority pair would be more rigid in his take on others.
That same understanding would also be limited to the degree of which his unconscious reflection of his Ni-Fi authority pair would work in the background.
While an INTp would be much quicker in adapting to others needs and viewpoint because he will have a convergent take on the reflections of the Ni-Fi pair.
Also, talking about justice, an ENTj is not as interested in that kind of abstract philosophy since he wants first and foremost to put in practice what already is. While an ILI INTp would have a more holistic understanding on those principles such as justice and equality. Those, in contrast to the ENTj, will be formed in a convergent and active manner.
In short, the degree of introverted thought for an ENTj, is lesser than what is expected from an introvert.
Bonus point, an INTp Ni-Fi convergent pair would give more of a child quality to it, as he would want to integrate everyone and everything into his being, like a naive child would. But from the hurt that would follow, he would put up his Te authority defense. However, that defense would be more on the surface, inside he will crave to be honest and open with everyone, and as such, to be fully integrated with reality. With both the positive and the negative aspects as well, as there is no good and bad, only different aspects of reality in different circumstances or times. This non differentiation of such aspects of reality, will lead him to true objectivity and a complete holistic understanding of everything and everyone. Thus, as such, he will follow his Ni-Fi pair domminant sequence.
PS: I think that you know what type I imply that he is. 🙃
However, can you prove that he is an ENFp for instance?
I'm curious to know as I want to make sure if my take is based on the convergent framework of the ENFp Ni-Ti pair from the unconscious or is based on the purely convergent and active reflections of an Ni-Fi conscious pair, and then manifested in an Ti-Si sub authority pair fashion.
Thus, we first need to agree how a philosophical framework is best represented by functions first. I think that the Ni-Fi pair would be the most representative of a philosophical mindset. However, that's only in getting a blueprint to starting a philosophy. The main argumentation for it, I think that would be done by most likely, a Ti-Si subauthority pair.
Thus, I think that an ILI INTp is also more likely to be philosophically minded.
Show me the contrary, Harry, or let's finally agree on something. 🙃
Or is it maybe the fact that I cannot trace back how my argumentation relates to the subject at hand, the typing of that individual, is a sign of the rigid Ti Si subauthority pair, as opposed to the ENFp Ni-Ti convergent pair. Thus, is the Ti-Si subauthority pair responsible for my isolated point checking for the validity of that point based on its current circumstance and structure? And, as such, my depression locked that Ti-Si pair up so that my Ni doesn't have the flexibility to assign itself to the Ti, and as such, I can only have a holistic understanding only based on Ni-Fi pair stuff?
@@novaimperialis I like your integration of the attitudes! It is not anywhere near that cut and dry though - divergent Fi trades action for observation remember, so ENTJs will be exceedingly aware of such things. It is certainly more static in this case, but axis exist for a reason - attitudes can be shifted upon axial rotation :)
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory I agree with what you say, Harry. But you forget the fact that such a change in the rotation would still require great amounts of energy and it will cause a lot of stress. There's a reason why we live mostly in our ego. Because it's more comfortable that way. It's better to stay in our protected little bubble than change the orientation of our functions and do other things.
Also, there is also a difference between moving to action and then reflecting upon what you did, and on the contrary, reflecting about what you should do, and then moving to action(maybe). The former is more reminiscent of an ENTj since he first and foremost he's a rational judger and he values action first, while the second, is more reminiscent of an INTp who values perception first and foremost because he's an irrational perceiver first. That is an ENTj puts more value on his Te-Se axis, than on his Ni-Fi one. While an INTp puts a lot more value on his Ni-Fi axis, and a lot less value on his Te-Se. Both can do everything. However, it's about which one does one thing primarily and it's easier for him to do it that way. Hence that's why an ENTj would talk about action and you wouldn't be able to negociate with him and he will cut you out long before you can bring your theory to support your cause as an INTp. Or maybe he will use your theory against you so that it makes you to move to action... that is also plausible... to beat you with your own weapons...
While an INTp would get more ground as long as he can state his reflections and observations because he's primarily an intellectual perceiver. That is, an ENTj IS the most sufficient type and most likely will resist in the wilderness, while an INTp needs society as it offers him the kind of structure to exert those reflections and observations, and his intellectualism upon the world to create change. Like Jordan Peterson does as well. That's only if you won't argue with me now that he's an ENTj as well.
Anyways, an ENTj can do that as well, but he will do it more for the sake of getting something out of it. While an INTp would do it because he values knowledge. Profit is also welcome, but the convergent Ni-Fi axis necessitates a cause to work. Also, don't forget that in socionics, the main desire for an INTp is to love. Here love is through knowledge and application of that knowledge for the people close to him in order to make their lives easier and thus complete the ILI program which is to derive benefits from the ongoing processes.
Now, I may be biased if I'm really an INTp Ni subtype with my perceiveness. Maybe an INTp Te subtype would work differently. However, I don't think that it is that much of a difference because the inner workings are the same. Maybe just externally there would be differences, but internally they still work by the same processes, they are not different types. It's the same type, but in a different circumstance or situation.
And also, my father is pretty old now, so maybe a young ENTj would be more eager to aquire different kind of stuff than an old one would. Since the old one has got already a framework on which he's working, while the young one is still framing such a framework.
And he also told me that when he was young he was eager to learn all kinds of stuff including psychology, but he learned that he should put them in practice first and foremost.
Maybe that's why things are as they are now.
Harry, this is your daily dose of spam! I couldn't post this on socionics database as it is too long of a critique.
Enjoy! You the annoying comment. Me the report that will come afterwards.
Then we both need to enjoy ourselves both. Got it? Enjoy yourself while reading my comment and also enjoying my perspective and not reporting me for spam... Hopefully... Unintentional intentional Machiavellian strategy... for comedy!
I'm amazed by the innacuracy of those typings.
Why do we need to always follow stereotypes to get to a conclusion?
Ni is intuition of time. That means that it can appear as Si because Ni in socionics is the observation of a phenomenon development from the past to the future. While Si is about chronological order of events and facts.
You don't need to appear the most logical to be a thinking type. Especially when it comes to an irrational dom. Ni domminant can't be as easily explained by logic. Ni is a perceiving function. While Te is a judging function. Having this combination means that you are perceiving the development of a process. Or the development of an arguement. Also, if someone would check the original work of Jung would see that an introvert is mainly an introvert because he has a prefferance towards his introverted functions and a disdain towards his extroverted functions.
The same applies to the extrovert. That means that an INTp actually has Ni and Ti as his primary functions. With this in mind, that means that your inferior is really your John Beebe 8th demon function. And as in the case of an INTp it is the function opposed to Ni as both orientation and prefferance.
That's why you can see that Harvey makes all the wrong decisions in the serial. He uses Te and Ne to make use of the possibilities present to him, but he makes them from a deeply unconscious Fi. That's an ENTJ.
While an Ni dom sees the implications of every action that happens. And this difference between types is more proeminent than you would think. There are clear distinctions between feelers and thinkers.
So, in conclusion, Mike seems to be an Ni dom to me. It shows how your first function has a lot of territory in your psyche.
I'm most probably an INTp as well, and I still have difficulties in communication with my ENTj father who supposedly has Ni secondary in MBTY. That's due to the fact that his first function Te has the most authority over his psyche. Everything I say he tries to think how he can use it in the moment. All my theory.
The thing is that he's able to understand what I say, but he prefers to use his Te.
Also, functions are not in a void. There is a cooperation going on. Ni and Si can't think for themselves about the past or the future or fashion... It is Ti that judges those perceptions. So you need to have a perceiving and a judging function.
Also, please Ti doms, don't look just at the consistency of my arguement, but please, just verify the Ni perception that I bring forward with your Ti and not just my Ti argument. Don't just invalidate it using your narrow framework of understanding, but continue to accumulate more premises than you already have. Only by knowing both sides, you can see which of the two is correct. But for that you kinda of need to be a devil's advocate and you need to detach yourself from both.
Or, yeah, just type me as Fi dom! I wonder what Fi codec and Si lens concrete values have I used here. They are abstractly analyzed philosophical values but whatever. The point is that they are not inside your narrow framework. So that is Ni Ti and then Fi.
Recognize that you don't have all the answers and that you need to research for more premises which may be against your position. That is the beggining of understanding. To know that you know nothing and so, you then actually have the need to know. If you get offended by this, that means that your emotions rule over you. It doesn't matter if you convey them in logic. The stimuli that sparked the argument is an emotional one. Logic is just a way of validating your emotions and perceptions which comes from your own biased emotions.
Otherwise, you would accept the fact that your own existence is meaningless and that will is an irrational force on and of itself since the existence logically and philosocally is meaningless. Also, prove me wrong that my irrational will to correct this incomplete understanding, when I knew that it will be a waste of time, was a move with a beneficial effect. *Wink Ti doms who correct others even tho it's illogical because it doesn't have a purpose to it*
Also, nope, I'm not an INFp or INFJ either. They immediately shy away from any argument. I thrive when I show others their own hypocrisy, because I first detest it in myself. I think that here lies the ILI Critic nickname. He's so critical of himself that he permits to be like this to others as well. So then he can be in return criticized as well because of the emotional responses that he TRIGGERED... Yeah loop of destruction goes rollin' over my head...
Sources for the people who use the irrational will to deny others:
CPT-Cognitive Personality Theory
akhromant.tumblr.com/post/182501859285/mbti-list-11-mbti-socionics-correlation-this
akhromant.tumblr.com/post/182501859285/mbti-list-11-mbti-socionics-correlation-this#notes
Original post:
www.personality-database.com/profile/4212/mike-ross-suits-mbti-personality-type
I read it! And enjoyed it! Too much to respond too adequately, but yes I doubt you are an 'F' type of any kind. INFP and ISFP are the only ones I could entertain here, but you would be an unusual one of either!
I'm pretty sure that I'm an ILI now.
Here is the description of the socionics mirror relation between the LIE and ILI:
www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/371-Mirror-Relations-INTp-and-ENTj-by-Stratiyevskaya
This is accurate between me and my father. That's why, I sometimes feel like I'm speaking to an Ai and not a human since he has the INTj unconscious, and he can came with really good and simple frameworks and models, but he prefers to just use the information and to don't question its logical consistency. I just like to theorize while he likes to terrorize me with his implementation. Now we started to get along better. He is also interested in socionics now, and I want to present him CPT as well. But he doesn't have a critical eye to this kind of information. And when I give lectures on this information in monollogues, he says that he can't retain all my observations and that he wants me to just use the Q&A format. This is the difference between him being result and me being process.
And also, he has a really bad habit of interrupting me when I'm saying something just to bring foolish objections that were taken into account by me before he objected them. That's really annoying! He is like he tries to supervise me on my intuition. While I criticize his every action and way of being and the logical consistency in his arguments. So mirror relations really are mutually supervision relation dynamic.
Also, his use of Ne subauthority creates a lot of problems. To his work and to his relations. I was blamed for random things before because of this. The worst part is that he thinks that he's right. You gotta love the Ne-Si trickster axis.
Also, after telling him about this theory, he wants me to supervise others at work and organize his company by implementing this system into it. I felt like he puts a huge responsabilty to my shoulders and also that I'm not an expert. I can identify people better than before, but the theory, I still have some problems with it's logical consistency. He just delegates like mad. I didn't thought that he would put such obligations on me.
If I were more active I think that he would support me in becaming the next president of my country. Maybe following the model of Louis XV democratic approach and changing some laws there and there. He makes me feel like all my dreams are possible since he sees this potential in me.
Also, I think that I lectured him in philosophy about some 50 hours. He listened to everything. Before I would get put in place, but now I think that he saw that I'm doing my Ni part better and that I should be treated with respect.
Another thing is that I get annoyed sometimes when I want to bring ridiculous arguments and analysis just as a joke, and then he takes them seriously. He still uses intuition but he said to me that he wants more specifics than generalities. Before I thought him to be more intelligent than me in this regard, but now I get depressed by this reality. Also, my EIE supervisor also takes everything I say as concrete offenses, and not as abstract methapors.
Its really depressing to think now that everyone has this blindspots and that's why conflicts arise. If before I felt lonely, now I feel a complete alien. Please, Harry, be the only one who understand my soul!
So by living just in the ego, you can't develop healthy relations. The worst part is that this is the default state.
I'm really dissapointed by humanity and our own hypocrisy. Everything comes from a misunderstanding and a lack of communication.
Also, this is the analysis of king Louis XV of France - the one before the guillotined guy. His description fits very well with my personality.
worldsocionics.blogspot.com/2017/08/louis-xv-ili-personality-type-analysis.html?m=1
Sounds like ESTJ might be a possibility for him? Although Socionics types tend to differ owing to a different definition of the cognitive functions so both might apply between paradigms.
You may very well be an INTp/INTJ within Socionics, but I'd have tremendous difficulty placing this thought pattern as such within CPT. Certainly sounds like Ni-Fi, but seems more divergent, and Thinking overwhelmingly more convergent.
I think this sort of thing is going to keep happening - something fitting within Socionics, and attempting to fit a socionics type to another system.. I like Socionics but I've yet to see a complete synthesis between that and other models.
Taking Louis XV, an INTp (INTJ) may fit from a Socionics perspective, but I certainly wouldn't consider him an INF-Ts (INTJ) within CPT. This doesn't mean either system is wrong, they're simply different paradigms.
@@CognitivePersonalityTheory His father is the usual ESTj. My father uses Ni, but prefers Te and Se as they are convergent.
I think that I became more aware of the Ti and I changed its orientation. It's still works in the unconscious, but I can still analyze his conclusions and program him other things to calculate. I think that it's just that I became more self aware of it. And the fact with Ni and Fi being more divergent might be due to the fact that Ti subauthority has assumed the advantageous position to my Fi. I still have my vision, but I doubt my whole existence. Maybe you relay to much on the Ti subauthority in depression in the case of an INTp? It's easier to destroy myself with facts and logic than circumvent those obstacles I think. I thought again about the possibility of being an EII, but I would need to have Si or Fi as more dominant by this logic. Which is not the case from what it seems.
Also, it may be the fact that depression strengthens the 3rd dormant state of Ni-Fi-Ti and because of Fi it may seem that the Ti logic is more convergent. Just saying.
What do you think Jordan Peterson's type is?
ISTP
It's hard to get real life data, but ISFP seems like a strong contender. I can also understand INFJ conclusions too.
ISFP Fi-Ni / Te-Se or INTJ Ni-Fi / Se-Te, . More likely ISFP
what about david gogins? I've seen him typed as enxj and istx
This!
It's a comment I made on objective personality.
Here's the link if you are interested:
ua-cam.com/video/FJYPanGiO7g/v-deo.html
This! Proves my INTJness! It's like people speak about the same program but with different descriptions of it.
Ni it's interested in the general understanding. While Te parent in raport with Ti critic just checks the structure of other arguments to see if they find a new understanding and then proceeds to extract the points forming the argument and it incorporates them in its database of general understanding, or it goes all Hulk and it smashes it in the database under the magenta is not red, but I will treat it like red category. Same like red, but with a different name category, and then when he is not able to categorize them, he gets stressed out, and then proceeds to compulsively read articles all day and night about socionics and personality types in order to remove that gap...
It feels draining if there is a lot of new information. Cause I know that I would be forced to make an update sometime soon and it's better to do it on my terms and just be conscious of the information presented. That's why it's hard for me to study for my exams. Cause I want to get the understanding correct and to have clarity while doing it so, cause I don't want to be forced to change my understanding in the future. That's why depression is a roadblock in this sense. And also, that's why sometimes it seems that ignorance is really bliss.
Not me starting to believe that I'm Ti dom after engrossing myself too much into these things 🥲
Is it really possible to figure out our types just like this? I think I really need to start journaling to be exact