it's also the quality of training. easy to find a boxing gym with regular sparring and quality coaching, but how often do the average, distance management shotokan style karatekas get truly pressure tested. I say this as someone who started with karate, goes to a gym with kyokoshin along with kickboxing, and aims to use more shotokan style distance management and footwork. it's just not as common to learn that style while being legit pressure tested with full contact competition.
Not to mention most “martial arts” gyms will get sued nowadays if one of the kids get injured. So how can you effectively teach martial arts without possible injury?
As a Kyokushin Karateka I can confidently say that if someone took quality boxing for a year and another took quality Kyokushin for a year, I'm putting my money on the Karateka. Both very good styles of fighting though and ultimately it depends on the individual fighter.
If karate is taught properly, you can do well in a year against a boxer. It all depends on what knowledge/skills you have that new student practice. If you bombard them with so many other techniques or skill that's not necessary, of course they won't do well in a year. Any modern day karate instructor should be able to make their new student somewhat capable in 6 months. Teach a new way that makes a new student more effective in a shorter period of time.
Well said, I think now not just for mma but in general a lot of modern teachers should just be teaching the techniques that is relevant to the student for whatever reason they are training, ie it could be for work, or self defence or fitness, etc. Obviously couldn't do this for every martial art & maybe the theory & etiquette would be the same for everyone but I don't think it would be terribly difficult for most experienced coaches to break it down & bespoke their teaching.
As a Kyokushin karateka, from experience it’s best to be hybrid, good at both Long distance and middle distance. You could see Jeff Chan start to utilise the karate bladed stance, that’s how important it is
As a Karate and kickboxing practionner I 100% agree. Karate is a hell of martial art but It has so much tools that it's very long to become effective. Whereas in boxing and kickboxing you Can beat the crap out of a lot of people with 2 years of training. But a veteran karate fighter with a good knowlege of full contact combat sport is very dangerous
The only reason any style is superior to another is the sparring. Boxing and muay thai spar more. Where as traditional arts like karate, you may never spar at all and break boards all day.
Their rule of sparring is the problem as well they train for more point hitting than actual combat while boxing and Muay Thai although still limited by rule most of the thing u do in the sparring can easily be used in real life karate and tkd now a day is just point hitting for me I don’t necessarily think boxing is better than karate I would say karate is better becuz they have kick and hand
@@saysamnang9851 I agree with you. Karate can be better because it uses both punch and kick, but as you stated the application severely limits it and worst teaches it horrible real scenario application. I've watched the new karate 1v1 promotions and they're really good, as well we've all seen someone like Machida become light heavyweight champion in the ufc, thus yes karate can be effective. Mainly, I am just criticizing what we normally see from these traditional martial arts. Like the dumb point stuff, or the no hitting the head so they do these dumb body punches while completely neglecting defensive responsibility of the head. When it comes to punching boxing is the ultimately superior style and I feel like all styles should adopt it. Basically there's many ways to punch, but it's just that in boxing you have every single way to punch, becasue that's all they do haha.
This perspective gave me insight on what striking martial arts I should begin with because I’m in my early 30s starting this and I did not want to start a path that would only be effective after 5-10 plus years down the road. I don’t think any style is better than another as each style answers a different situation. But as a starter martial arts I think boxing was right for me just because of the learning curve to efficacy ratio.
Karate guys who come from schools and styles that spar very often are dangerous. Very uncommon and unorthodox to fight. Difficult and tedious guys to spar and or fight with
I think you also have to judge the arts in the context they're intended for. In boxing, you can defend yourself by shelling up, but it doesn't work so well in a bareknuckle fight where your opponent can bruise your arms or crack your ribs. If you watch fights from a hundred years or so ago, when they used much less padded gloves, they had very different defensive tactics. Karate was developed under the assumption that you were going to be fighting with bare fists, against an opponent who can grab and hold your limbs, throw you, etc. It's not going to be ideal for a confrontation where those things aren't true.
Boxing is a sport. Power for power, legs beat hands. In close range, elbows and knees beat hands. Hands are made for grabbing. Humans hands are very fragile, I don’t understand why one would use hands as a blunt force weapon.
@@dAbaPEsTA123 Well imagine you’re in a fight and your opponent is too close to kick but too far to elbow. You’re going to punch them because it’s the most effective strike at that distance.
@@papaalmighty That's a very specific distance that rarely happens irl. It's much easier to close that distance or run away. Once you've closed the distance, it's much more efficient to elbow/knee/grab. With boxing, your fists will get neutralized easily just after a handle of punches at semi-hard targets.
Same with Kung Fu it takes longer as well. I truly believe those ancient masters were beyond disciplined in mind and body. If those masters were around today I believe in there prime they would hold there own. A lot of people now doing kung fu don’t have that discipline
@@PaulPari the majority of “fighters” you see doing kung fu are just a bunch of nerds who don’t understand the mechanics of the system. For example using wing chun 90% of them just flail their arms and try to act cool and are too worried about looking like Bruce Lee without the discipline it takes to get to that then get knocked out. Wing chun was my first martial art I learned. Later learning boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ and wrestling. And I still say to this day, if it was not for the fluidity of wing chun I wouldn’t be nearly as good in these other arts. Alone with nothing else I can be limited but in combination kung fu works you just have to actually be about it. You gotta be a fighter at heart. In many of my spars I’ve used kung fu in certain sequences where if I hadn’t know it I would have gotten hit. Just gotta use what works when it works. There is no magic style that is flawless it’s the fighter that matters. Not the style.
@@spiritualhomosapien6133 exactly. The "style" doesn't matter. What matters is what works. Wing chun doesn't work, because they don't spar. And if they do, they use ineffective punches and blocks. Saying you learned "fluidity" from it doesn't make it look better. By that logic, dancing and fencing is a "superior martial arts" in combination with the fighting sports. It certainly is veru useful (which again comes to the point, that its doesn't matter where and for what you learned is something, it matters whether what learned can be applied), but neither of those are real combat sports. The same way wing chun is not a real combat sport.
Karate was my first martial art. The issue with Karateka was that they only train against other Karateka. Cross training into other martial arts allows you to make adjustments to make your martial art more effective once you apply it against a resisting opponent. The Machida's are a prime example. They took Shotokan Karate and made adjustments to fit MMA.
So from what I have gathered... Karate requires more skill to learn than boxing, therefore making it harder to use in the beginning. However, karate has more potential than boxing, as it has a larger moveset. Correct?
This is true of wrestling and judo too. Judo takes so fucking long to get good at. But you put a jiu-jitsu guy in wrestling for a year and he'll feel like a monster.
@@mason9807 yea I first learned about it from hajime no ippo lol. they referenced tommy hearns in there. I just thought it was funny cause this vid got recommended after I watched that clip of gsp
The thing is, at least in the US, there are way more places to learn solid fundamental boxing that has carryover than there are places to learn effective karate. Half the inner cities have PAL (Police Athletic League) gyms where kids can learn from the best for free. The sparring, like others have mentioned is a big deal too. Boxing sparring is a very tough affair, and there’s a legitimate weeding out process as these kids become competitive, the same may not be said for many karate schools. Are there exceptions? Sure, but hard-nosed karatekas are an exception, where as hard-nosed boxers are the norm.
Well. My neighbor who is a black belt said that he did quite well in karate competitions but until he started practicing boxing he was able to beat others with relative ease. So I guess both martial arts are good. It takes way more than just shelling up to be a boxer, it is almost impossible to hit a relatively well trained boxer, including non professionals.
I just punched my coach in the face accidently 2 days ago. It is so hard to keep the perfect distance but extremly helpful if you know how to do it. We do Randori/Jiyuu Kumite which is basically sparring in Karate almost every lesson
It sounds to me that learning karate vs kickboxing/boxing is like learning to drive a stick vs an automatic . You learn to drive an automatic really fast but learning a stick is much harder takes more time but I nice you’ve mastered it you a lot more control.
It does mean it’s better, if you take “suitable for modern times” as the standards you measure for, if it can be trained faster, people see results quicker, athletes and pros can fit it into their careers easier.
Agree completely. Few months of boxing or wrestling and people start to look comfortable with the movements. Probably takes double the time for people to get that some comfortability when doing karate training and movements. Part of it is you get so much thrown at you instead of being more specialized and then again mcdojos and some places don't train nearly as hard as others. Where you train is a major factor and knowing how to adjust for each sport. I know a lot of karateka that find shifting to boxing more easy than to kickboxing due to the head movement and distance management being different.
Katate is more effective over several years of training. Ive trained karate for almost 7 years so i can already comfortably beat majority of boxers and kickboxers depending on who it is, experince and size.
I say why trim one or the other just train all (boxing, karate all martial arts even Thai chi) because weather u like it or not there all effective in someway and when put all together they are unstoppable no flaws what so ever
Yes I agree especially with the tai chi part because tai chi is really slow and elegant martial art and would get destroyed by boxers and stuff there is the mental aspect of tai chi that you can’t get from other martial arts
@@Warmonger6785never judge an East Asian martial art by how the forms are performed. That’s like watching a newbie boxer slowly perfecting their jab and thinking that’s the speed that all boxing is meant to be done at.
@@peterwang5660 I do not judge East Asian martial arts I’m just saying that tai chi would be more of a meditation experience instead of a martial art many competitive fighters can still learn from it
Ease of use is a big part of effectiveness. That's why a spear was a much more common weapon than a sword in the dark ages. Not that the sword wasn't lethal or someone using it couldn't do massive damage, just that it took years and years of dedicated practice and training where as anyone can pick up a pointy stick and use it effectively
Btw this is just my take, yes I train boxing no I don't train karate, yes I might be a little biased, no I don't hate karate. I'm just reiterating what he said and using an analogy to prove a point. Someone like Stephan Thompson could easily beat my favorite boxer if both in their prime, but he's also been training real karate since he could walk.
Boxing is superior. It is the best foundation for any type of physical combat style for a number of reasons. 1. Boxing emphasize foot work more than any other martial art. 2. Switching angles and level changing are fundamental to boxing. 3. Constant sparring. Most martial arts don’t pressure test their concepts to the degree of that in boxing culture.
Boxing has simple basics and can be learned and used by every age cohort, weight and agility level. That's why it's super efficient and effective. But a more well-rounded combat sport like Muay Thai or MMA will be better for most people who want to defend themselves. Shotokan and Kyokushin are cool but lack boxing and head movement.
But If the learning curve in boxing is sharper and faster cuz boxing is more simple and Basic IT IS indeed more effektive. If you need to train as an example 3 years Karate to evenly Match 1 year of boxing than Karate in its Form has to many useless stuff thats Not necessary and therefore makes it ineffizient.
Karate isnt an effective street style, though. Speaking as someone who did karate for about half a decade, i can agree that hands down is amazing for karate, however my senseis refused to let me drop my hands and keep a high guard with my block. But its just not realistic or effective in the streets. Boxing is meta for a street fight.
They r both the same thing Karate from the past 100 years was changed They made it easier to be able To Teach large numbers of students at once Boxing 100 years ago was different Was pre amateur boxing training aa we now no it Didnt use the point scoring systems we see now If anything boxing bcame watered Down After 3 months of boxing It was mandatory to have knock-out ability Karate was changed Made many styles longer to learn Bcause many of them made u formidable in a shorter space of time as MMA and boxing training Does
That's exactly what I used to tell people... If someone who is well skilled in karate and very versatile with a combination of deeply involved training, they would be a force to be reckoned with. But a lot of people do not like to continue martial arts for so long to obtain that level of skill to show that it is highly effective. I've grown up doing Okinawan karate and boxing and I hate how simple he makes boxing sound but that is also the truth... It is much simpler with four punches too perfect and it all goes back down to Bruce Lee studying one move and being effective... Good boxing you up now just reduced all your moves to 4
@@thunderkatz4219 definitely two different things and then switching entirely from one discipline to the other, solely for those rules, kinda puts you in place. Some things don't translate as well... but that's why we keep training, for sure
Great points, solid underlying message is no need to talk smack about any of the arts. Every art has their top tier folks that will smash opponents if necessary.
Boxing may be simple but it's not easy. Catch counters, parry, Bob, weave, slip, pull, block, roll, footwork, timing, setups, traps, distance management etc... That is why most boxers don't box alike. I'd say most Karate practitioners fight alike, what sets a karateka apart is their boxing ability. Even with other martial arts, what made Ramon Dekkers so different HIS BOXING ABILITY. Bas Rutten is another great example.
Compare 2 sports is BS. It's all on the moment, the technique, the fear control, body condition, etc... If you take this comparisson on a street fight, the BS is even worse.
I think you got it backwards even though I love the arts that don't mean you know how to fight boxing teach you how to fight So if a guy know how to fight and you know karate you getting beat up
This guy has no idea what he's talking about or isn't stating his point correctly. Boxing is avoiding being hit while being trapped in a small bathroom. One could argue karate is easier because you're depending on being able to stay away from your opponent and avoid strikes where boxing youre avoiding strikes while being within striking range. I dont agree karate is easier either, im just trying to show the flaw in his viewpoint.
Wonderboy was trained in Karate and he uses those fundamentals in MMA as well as Wing Chun has fundamentals useful for boxing. Wing Chun emphasizes defend and attack should be one motion so parry and strike should be simultaneous. Also Wing Chun emphasize controlling the opponents arms which is useful for clinches. Lastly, Punch with your hips with minimal arm movement to conserve energy and throw non-telegraphable punches.
Karate is not just one thing though there’s 100s of different types of karate and they do things very differently so it would be ignorant to call boxing superior to karate in general. Currently the best karate style right now is Kyokushin which is full contact and it’s pretty good.
The forms are elegant and are such a good workout, I think that would be the only attribute of art in karate I can think of. The rest is more about combat,respect,discipline,mindset
art in “martial art” refers to “a skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice (in this case hurting other people)” and not “creative expression”.
@Roy Giron kickboxing, particularly both the Dutch and old American styles come from karatekas wanting full contact competition and combining karate (usually kyokoshan) with western boxing.
@@themartialmindpodcast Shuai jiao is a stand up grappling style for the most part tho, what do you do once you get on the ground? I haven't seen too many shuai jiao classes where they are doing rolling.
@@adim00lah If people don’t train it it’s impossible to know. Every technique has strengths and weaknesses, Shuai jiao focuses on throwing while Chin Na focuses on locking, and then there’s obviously lots of striking in Kung Fu. If you understand the principals and physics of the techniques they can be applied standing or if you’ve been taking down. I don’t do BJJ so I can’t speak to it. What I can say is that we don’t roll because our intention is never to stay on the ground.
"you shell up how hard is that?" bro thinks boxing is easy he should come and spar someone from my gym with like just a year of experience he would get absolutely annihilated
Lad you are waffling. He isn't saying boxing is easy. Don't make a blanket statement like that especially if you haven't watched his sparing videos where HE DOES BOXING
@@Fixxxxrr I am sorry if I "offended" you but he says you just shell up how hard could it be and that means he is basically saying boxing is easy and no I did not know you could do like boxing in karate or taekwondo
@@Adamya301 he is saying that In comparison, it takes longer and more effort to be good at karate than it is for boxing. He isn't saying boxing is easy but he is saying it is alot harder to get good at karate than boxing. Ain't no one offended but you 💀. He just putting it simply and quickly. Course he aint gonna go into detail about blocking.
Also... you do realise that he has had pro fights right? He's even fought in One fight championship. He's got decades of experience. He is not The guy to bash other combat sports because his whole career is based of off them and how much he likes different sports and styles.
it's also the quality of training. easy to find a boxing gym with regular sparring and quality coaching, but how often do the average, distance management shotokan style karatekas get truly pressure tested.
I say this as someone who started with karate, goes to a gym with kyokoshin along with kickboxing, and aims to use more shotokan style distance management and footwork. it's just not as common to learn that style while being legit pressure tested with full contact competition.
That’s why I’ve never been to a gym where I haven’t seen the coaches fight videos or in person🙏
I do karate Okinawan and the training is insane
El Karate de Okinawa realmente es muy bueno, yo practico Goju Ryu y realmente es exigente
Not to mention most “martial arts” gyms will get sued nowadays if one of the kids get injured.
So how can you effectively teach martial arts without possible injury?
Have you any idea about shotokan karate??
Lyoto Machida is so proud watching this now.
Gsp,lyoto machida, bas rutten, Steven Thompson, Uriah hall... there’s more
I can never imagine Jeff saying anything negative
lol same
Yeah because only shallow people talk about the negative shit often
As a Kyokushin Karateka I can confidently say that if someone took quality boxing for a year and another took quality Kyokushin for a year, I'm putting my money on the Karateka.
Both very good styles of fighting though and ultimately it depends on the individual fighter.
Man i am so happy that Jeff gets it.
If karate is taught properly, you can do well in a year against a boxer. It all depends on what knowledge/skills you have that new student practice.
If you bombard them with so many other techniques or skill that's not necessary, of course they won't do well in a year.
Any modern day karate instructor should be able to make their new student somewhat capable in 6 months.
Teach a new way that makes a new student more effective in a shorter period of time.
Well said, I think now not just for mma but in general a lot of modern teachers should just be teaching the techniques that is relevant to the student for whatever reason they are training, ie it could be for work, or self defence or fitness, etc. Obviously couldn't do this for every martial art & maybe the theory & etiquette would be the same for everyone but I don't think it would be terribly difficult for most experienced coaches to break it down & bespoke their teaching.
The truth is you learn so many different skills from every martial art that's why it's so cool to be a mixed martial artist
I’d say both are affective.
Thank you
Yup as long as you condition and spar against decent people, you'll be set
If you're feeling lovely both styles can be affective
"affective" means happens Out of Feeling and Impulse. Or do you mean "effective" so Something works good for the targeted purpose ?
Especially paired with wrestling boxing is very effective
As a Kyokushin karateka, from experience it’s best to be hybrid, good at both Long distance and middle distance. You could see Jeff Chan start to utilise the karate bladed stance, that’s how important it is
As a Karate and kickboxing practionner I 100% agree.
Karate is a hell of martial art but It has so much tools that it's very long to become effective.
Whereas in boxing and kickboxing you Can beat the crap out of a lot of people with 2 years of training.
But a veteran karate fighter with a good knowlege of full contact combat sport is very dangerous
The only reason any style is superior to another is the sparring. Boxing and muay thai spar more. Where as traditional arts like karate, you may never spar at all and break boards all day.
Their rule of sparring is the problem as well they train for more point hitting than actual combat while boxing and Muay Thai although still limited by rule most of the thing u do in the sparring can easily be used in real life karate and tkd now a day is just point hitting for me I don’t necessarily think boxing is better than karate I would say karate is better becuz they have kick and hand
You’ve never done karate before buddy we spar all the time
@@saysamnang9851 I agree with you. Karate can be better because it uses both punch and kick, but as you stated the application severely limits it and worst teaches it horrible real scenario application. I've watched the new karate 1v1 promotions and they're really good, as well we've all seen someone like Machida become light heavyweight champion in the ufc, thus yes karate can be effective. Mainly, I am just criticizing what we normally see from these traditional martial arts. Like the dumb point stuff, or the no hitting the head so they do these dumb body punches while completely neglecting defensive responsibility of the head.
When it comes to punching boxing is the ultimately superior style and I feel like all styles should adopt it. Basically there's many ways to punch, but it's just that in boxing you have every single way to punch, becasue that's all they do haha.
I do Okinawan
@@saysamnang9851that’s not true
This is why I do Moo Thai. 🐮 😋
This was an awesome podcast, thank you .🙏
Thank YOU!
@P A ua-cam.com/video/7ldGKrd9OgA/v-deo.html
hey, Thai beefs are coming along nicely
@pa_2600with my knees😤
This perspective gave me insight on what striking martial arts I should begin with because I’m in my early 30s starting this and I did not want to start a path that would only be effective after 5-10 plus years down the road. I don’t think any style is better than another as each style answers a different situation. But as a starter martial arts I think boxing was right for me just because of the learning curve to efficacy ratio.
Very insightful comment 👏 Jeff ...you openly share your evolution in art and that resonates with many of your supporters 💯
That’s insightful. To another extreme , we can compare internal kung fu to combat sport
I know who's moving around better at 70.
I would love to see a subset of bossing where you can only use your hands but you can also use throw and take downs.
Amen 🙏🕊❤️😇✝️
Right, like no boxers have ever fought with their hands low before. The most famous boxer of recent years literally fights with his lead hand down
Karate guys who come from schools and styles that spar very often are dangerous. Very uncommon and unorthodox to fight. Difficult and tedious guys to spar and or fight with
Same I train both
I think you also have to judge the arts in the context they're intended for. In boxing, you can defend yourself by shelling up, but it doesn't work so well in a bareknuckle fight where your opponent can bruise your arms or crack your ribs. If you watch fights from a hundred years or so ago, when they used much less padded gloves, they had very different defensive tactics.
Karate was developed under the assumption that you were going to be fighting with bare fists, against an opponent who can grab and hold your limbs, throw you, etc. It's not going to be ideal for a confrontation where those things aren't true.
Boxing is a sport. Power for power, legs beat hands. In close range, elbows and knees beat hands. Hands are made for grabbing.
Humans hands are very fragile, I don’t understand why one would use hands as a blunt force weapon.
@@dAbaPEsTA123 they work perfectly fine if you're punching a soft target...
@@dAbaPEsTA123 Well imagine you’re in a fight and your opponent is too close to kick but too far to elbow. You’re going to punch them because it’s the most effective strike at that distance.
@@papaalmighty That's a very specific distance that rarely happens irl. It's much easier to close that distance or run away. Once you've closed the distance, it's much more efficient to elbow/knee/grab.
With boxing, your fists will get neutralized easily just after a handle of punches at semi-hard targets.
@@dAbaPEsTA123 Bro it’s a very common range that you can see in almost any fight. I do agree that running away is best.
If you like both I'd say kickboxing works the best. Easy to transition to whether you have a background in karate or boxing.
Same with Kung Fu it takes longer as well. I truly believe those ancient masters were beyond disciplined in mind and body. If those masters were around today I believe in there prime they would hold there own. A lot of people now doing kung fu don’t have that discipline
🙏🏻
no
@@PaulPari the majority of “fighters” you see doing kung fu are just a bunch of nerds who don’t understand the mechanics of the system. For example using wing chun 90% of them just flail their arms and try to act cool and are too worried about looking like Bruce Lee without the discipline it takes to get to that then get knocked out. Wing chun was my first martial art I learned. Later learning boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ and wrestling. And I still say to this day, if it was not for the fluidity of wing chun I wouldn’t be nearly as good in these other arts. Alone with nothing else I can be limited but in combination kung fu works you just have to actually be about it. You gotta be a fighter at heart. In many of my spars I’ve used kung fu in certain sequences where if I hadn’t know it I would have gotten hit. Just gotta use what works when it works. There is no magic style that is flawless it’s the fighter that matters. Not the style.
@@spiritualhomosapien6133 exactly. The "style" doesn't matter. What matters is what works. Wing chun doesn't work, because they don't spar. And if they do, they use ineffective punches and blocks.
Saying you learned "fluidity" from it doesn't make it look better. By that logic, dancing and fencing is a "superior martial arts" in combination with the fighting sports. It certainly is veru useful (which again comes to the point, that its doesn't matter where and for what you learned is something, it matters whether what learned can be applied), but neither of those are real combat sports. The same way wing chun is not a real combat sport.
Karate was my first martial art. The issue with Karateka was that they only train against other Karateka. Cross training into other martial arts allows you to make adjustments to make your martial art more effective once you apply it against a resisting opponent.
The Machida's are a prime example. They took Shotokan Karate and made adjustments to fit MMA.
As a karateka I appreciate this
THIS! ❤🥋
So from what I have gathered...
Karate requires more skill to learn than boxing, therefore making it harder to use in the beginning.
However, karate has more potential than boxing, as it has a larger moveset.
Correct?
I trained kickboxing for a year and could use it in a couple of months. I've been training Akido for 6 months and still can't fall properly.
You might just be naturally better at striking mate. It’s the opposite for me. I can throw people around effortlessly but am pretty clumsy on the feet
Karate and boxing complement each other
Karate and judo also pair well if you’re going for a more traditional route
@@Warmonger6785I do them all and karate and judo work together with boxing
@@thunderkatz4219 yes good to know
👍🏽
Also different body types and minds can use different styles more effectively
This is true of wrestling and judo too. Judo takes so fucking long to get good at. But you put a jiu-jitsu guy in wrestling for a year and he'll feel like a monster.
Damn that's funny cause I just watched a vid where GSP explains how he keeps his arm low when he jabs cause it's out of the peripheral
Boxers do that too...Roy Jones, Ali, Naseem Hamed, etc.
@@mason9807 yea I first learned about it from hajime no ippo lol. they referenced tommy hearns in there. I just thought it was funny cause this vid got recommended after I watched that clip of gsp
@@NhemLee love that show, it's one of the reasons I got into training and some of my punches are stolen from the Anime lol.
@@mason9807 yea it def sparked my interest. Made me appreciate boxers more. Keep up the training. Hope you stay healthy
I love the combination. Wait isn't that mma
The thing is, at least in the US, there are way more places to learn solid fundamental boxing that has carryover than there are places to learn effective karate. Half the inner cities have PAL (Police Athletic League) gyms where kids can learn from the best for free. The sparring, like others have mentioned is a big deal too. Boxing sparring is a very tough affair, and there’s a legitimate weeding out process as these kids become competitive, the same may not be said for many karate schools. Are there exceptions? Sure, but hard-nosed karatekas are an exception, where as hard-nosed boxers are the norm.
Based on what you’re saying, if you can’t box, you can’t fight.
Thanks ❤️
It’s not the martial art it’s the martial artist
Oooss!!!
@pa_2600 I'm pretty sure that's why he said it's about the martial artist.
Well. My neighbor who is a black belt said that he did quite well in karate competitions but until he started practicing boxing he was able to beat others with relative ease. So I guess both martial arts are good.
It takes way more than just shelling up to be a boxer, it is almost impossible to hit a relatively well trained boxer, including non professionals.
Depends of the karate, kyokushin is so hard
You should try Okinawan
When professionals talk big hat jeff
That’s an extreme Oversimplification of Boxing
Well said jeffy
I just punched my coach in the face accidently 2 days ago. It is so hard to keep the perfect distance but extremly helpful if you know how to do it. We do Randori/Jiyuu Kumite which is basically sparring in Karate almost every lesson
It sounds to me that learning karate vs kickboxing/boxing is like learning to drive a stick vs an automatic . You learn to drive an automatic really fast but learning a stick is much harder takes more time but I nice you’ve mastered it you a lot more control.
All martial arts need to spar
It does mean it’s better, if you take “suitable for modern times” as the standards you measure for, if it can be trained faster, people see results quicker, athletes and pros can fit it into their careers easier.
🤯so that's why I'm so comfortable and smoother with my hands down. I started with karate and boxing was next to last. ok back to base👍😁👍
This is because of Master Seth
100% agree
Agree completely. Few months of boxing or wrestling and people start to look comfortable with the movements. Probably takes double the time for people to get that some comfortability when doing karate training and movements. Part of it is you get so much thrown at you instead of being more specialized and then again mcdojos and some places don't train nearly as hard as others. Where you train is a major factor and knowing how to adjust for each sport. I know a lot of karateka that find shifting to boxing more easy than to kickboxing due to the head movement and distance management being different.
Katate is more effective over several years of training. Ive trained karate for almost 7 years so i can already comfortably beat majority of boxers and kickboxers depending on who it is, experince and size.
@@RoySmith22😂sure
@@RoySmith22I do karate and boxing and some grappling but yeah karate can beat boxing and it has before
Dam right
Angela Hill is like the Nate Diaz of the women fighters
I always think this way; if a martial art is useless, why it still has been existing for decades and has been used in ancient war
A lot of people are competitive though and will argue over some dumb stuff that is proven not to be true but continue into an endless debate.
Same with tkd and muay thai in my opinion
I say why trim one or the other just train all (boxing, karate all martial arts even Thai chi) because weather u like it or not there all effective in someway and when put all together they are unstoppable no flaws what so ever
Yes I agree especially with the tai chi part because tai chi is really slow and elegant martial art and would get destroyed by boxers and stuff there is the mental aspect of tai chi that you can’t get from other martial arts
@@Warmonger6785never judge an East Asian martial art by how the forms are performed. That’s like watching a newbie boxer slowly perfecting their jab and thinking that’s the speed that all boxing is meant to be done at.
@@peterwang5660 I do not judge East Asian martial arts I’m just saying that tai chi would be more of a meditation experience instead of a martial art many competitive fighters can still learn from it
what about boxers that fight with theur hands low
Ease of use is a big part of effectiveness. That's why a spear was a much more common weapon than a sword in the dark ages. Not that the sword wasn't lethal or someone using it couldn't do massive damage, just that it took years and years of dedicated practice and training where as anyone can pick up a pointy stick and use it effectively
Btw this is just my take, yes I train boxing no I don't train karate, yes I might be a little biased, no I don't hate karate. I'm just reiterating what he said and using an analogy to prove a point. Someone like Stephan Thompson could easily beat my favorite boxer if both in their prime, but he's also been training real karate since he could walk.
@@FcItsSpartanI do karate and box in and they can work together
@@FcItsSpartanand me and wonder boy train the same style
Boxing is superior. It is the best foundation for any type of physical combat style for a number of reasons.
1. Boxing emphasize foot work more than any other martial art.
2. Switching angles and level changing are fundamental to boxing.
3. Constant sparring. Most martial arts don’t pressure test their concepts to the degree of that in boxing culture.
That's why Stephen Thompson is so good. He's been able to hang with the best of the best with low hands.
But his kicks are his bread and butter
But we also got legs
Jeff is the best
No style is superior you have to mix them all together
Boxing has simple basics and can be learned and used by every age cohort, weight and agility level. That's why it's super efficient and effective. But a more well-rounded combat sport like Muay Thai or MMA will be better for most people who want to defend themselves. Shotokan and Kyokushin are cool but lack boxing and head movement.
But If the learning curve in boxing is sharper and faster cuz boxing is more simple and Basic IT IS indeed more effektive. If you need to train as an example 3 years Karate to evenly Match 1 year of boxing than Karate in its Form has to many useless stuff thats Not necessary and therefore makes it ineffizient.
I have a solid base in boxing. But I trained in several kung fu styles. I have to say my kickboxing style is a nightmare for the Muay Thai guys.
Karate isnt an effective street style, though. Speaking as someone who did karate for about half a decade, i can agree that hands down is amazing for karate, however my senseis refused to let me drop my hands and keep a high guard with my block. But its just not realistic or effective in the streets. Boxing is meta for a street fight.
It depends on what style if it’s like kenpo or Kyokushin then yeah it is
They r both the same thing
Karate from the past 100 years was changed
They made it easier
to be able To
Teach large numbers of students at once
Boxing 100 years ago was different
Was pre amateur boxing training aa we now no it
Didnt use the point scoring systems we see now
If anything boxing bcame watered
Down
After 3 months of boxing
It was mandatory to have knock-out ability
Karate was changed
Made many styles longer to learn
Bcause many of them made u formidable
in a shorter space of time as
MMA and boxing training
Does
99-out-of-100 karate practitioners _should not_ fight a trained boxer.
Boxing is way harder than karate
That's exactly what I used to tell people... If someone who is well skilled in karate and very versatile with a combination of deeply involved training, they would be a force to be reckoned with. But a lot of people do not like to continue martial arts for so long to obtain that level of skill to show that it is highly effective. I've grown up doing Okinawan karate and boxing and I hate how simple he makes boxing sound but that is also the truth... It is much simpler with four punches too perfect and it all goes back down to Bruce Lee studying one move and being effective... Good boxing you up now just reduced all your moves to 4
Yo I do Okinawan kenpo karate and boxing and other martial arts and I feel like people don’t take boxing seriously just like karate
@@thunderkatz4219 definitely two different things and then switching entirely from one discipline to the other, solely for those rules, kinda puts you in place. Some things don't translate as well... but that's why we keep training, for sure
Its the same with wrestling and judo.
Great points, solid underlying message is no need to talk smack about any of the arts. Every art has their top tier folks that will smash opponents if necessary.
Five stars 🖐👺
So then kickboxing?
That how I feel about tkd…. And I still think that about tkd lol not the most effective discipline.
I have been saying this about wing chun and aikidio. Yes it is harder to master but tools are still needeed
Boxing may be simple but it's not easy. Catch counters, parry, Bob, weave, slip, pull, block, roll, footwork, timing, setups, traps, distance management etc... That is why most boxers don't box alike. I'd say most Karate practitioners fight alike, what sets a karateka apart is their boxing ability. Even with other martial arts, what made Ramon Dekkers so different HIS BOXING ABILITY. Bas Rutten is another great example.
Why are they wearing bed covers on their legs 😂
I call bullshit. A boxer who trained for one year can't beat a muay tai with the same time period of training.
Depends on fighter, boxing has more fluid movement
But then a world class kick boxer comes in and knocks the bonkers out of you cause kept your hands low 😅
Compare 2 sports is BS. It's all on the moment, the technique, the fear control, body condition, etc... If you take this comparisson on a street fight, the BS is even worse.
I do karate doing kung fu rn and a variety of mma so boxing is a must but if i see somone shell up irl im just gonna side kick bro in the liver
I think you got it backwards even though I love the arts that don't mean you know how to fight boxing teach you how to fight So if a guy know how to fight and you know karate you getting beat up
This guy has no idea what he's talking about or isn't stating his point correctly. Boxing is avoiding being hit while being trapped in a small bathroom. One could argue karate is easier because you're depending on being able to stay away from your opponent and avoid strikes where boxing youre avoiding strikes while being within striking range. I dont agree karate is easier either, im just trying to show the flaw in his viewpoint.
Kyokushin karate and Goju ryu sotu ryu are just like kick boxing only add punches see how will fuck up boxing mens
Wonderboy was trained in Karate and he uses those fundamentals in MMA as well as Wing Chun has fundamentals useful for boxing.
Wing Chun emphasizes defend and attack should be one motion so parry and strike should be simultaneous. Also Wing Chun emphasize controlling the opponents arms which is useful for clinches. Lastly, Punch with your hips with minimal arm movement to conserve energy and throw non-telegraphable punches.
But still boxer ko them pretty easily
only in america lol
Is just kickboxing bro
It’s simple? You just shell up? How hard is that? Interesting. Apparently, Jeff doesn’t know anything about boxing.
Feels like propaganda
I'd beat him though
BS, boxing is superior to karate and it's not even close.
Karate is not just one thing though there’s 100s of different types of karate and they do things very differently so it would be ignorant to call boxing superior to karate in general. Currently the best karate style right now is Kyokushin which is full contact and it’s pretty good.
@@Warmonger6785 I've been watching combat sports cince 1999, so I do know what Kyokushin is, and yes, it is pretty good, but boxing is still superior.
@@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods lol
I see karate more as an art
The forms are elegant and are such a good workout, I think that would be the only attribute of art in karate I can think of. The rest is more about combat,respect,discipline,mindset
art in “martial art” refers to “a skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice (in this case hurting other people)” and not “creative expression”.
Boxing is superior 💯
Thanks for the feedback
Naw man do both. Karate AND boxing is one of the best striking combos. I vsnt believe people are still this close minded in 2023
Watch videos where boxers getting kicked and see how their boxing skills decrease rapidly.
@@markmessi9020 or don't do both and Just do kick boxing or muy thai
@Roy Giron kickboxing, particularly both the Dutch and old American styles come from karatekas wanting full contact competition and combining karate (usually kyokoshan) with western boxing.
What happens if he’s a grappler and he smashes your face in the ground
A complete martial arts system should cover all those pillars, in our branch of kung fu we incorporate Shuai Jiao as our “wrestling”
Then you get up and take him down back. Be balanced in all aspects of fighting noob 😂
@@markmessi9020 your moms a noob
@@themartialmindpodcast Shuai jiao is a stand up grappling style for the most part tho, what do you do once you get on the ground?
I haven't seen too many shuai jiao classes where they are doing rolling.
@@adim00lah If people don’t train it it’s impossible to know. Every technique has strengths and weaknesses, Shuai jiao focuses on throwing while Chin Na focuses on locking, and then there’s obviously lots of striking in Kung Fu. If you understand the principals and physics of the techniques they can be applied standing or if you’ve been taking down. I don’t do BJJ so I can’t speak to it. What I can say is that we don’t roll because our intention is never to stay on the ground.
Boxing is much more better and realistic than karate 😂😂
I see karate better than Muay Thai
"you shell up how hard is that?"
bro thinks boxing is easy he should come and spar someone from my gym with like just a year of experience he would get absolutely annihilated
Lad you are waffling. He isn't saying boxing is easy. Don't make a blanket statement like that especially if you haven't watched his sparing videos where HE DOES BOXING
@@Fixxxxrr I am sorry if I "offended" you but he says you just shell up how hard could it be and that means he is basically saying boxing is easy and no I did not know you could do like boxing in karate or taekwondo
@@Adamya301 he is saying that In comparison, it takes longer and more effort to be good at karate than it is for boxing. He isn't saying boxing is easy but he is saying it is alot harder to get good at karate than boxing. Ain't no one offended but you 💀. He just putting it simply and quickly. Course he aint gonna go into detail about blocking.
Also... you do realise that he has had pro fights right? He's even fought in One fight championship. He's got decades of experience. He is not The guy to bash other combat sports because his whole career is based of off them and how much he likes different sports and styles.
Muay Thai just joined the chat