I rebuild my compleet engine. With forged higher compression pistons and oversized (11:1 and 88.0mm) forged rods. Ported +polisch my exhaust ports. Full head rebuild. 180lbs springs, ph2 cams, fusion fab inlet, 60mm geniune throttel body, 4-1 EVO 1 miltek and a decat magnaflow exhaust. But first i had a cone filter on the throttle body. Went to the tuner, made 178hp(7800 rpm) and 214nm(5000rpm). This is on a strict dyno. I was quite sad it didnt make the 200hp, because everything was claiming this. So went a step further Made a full custom cold air intake, taking air from before the grill. 2x60mm inlets. Went again to the tuner. It made 185hp(7800) and 235nm(4800). Still no 200, but my tuner had a fiesta before with ph2 cams, 4-1 exhaust and a cosworth inlet. Made just over 200. But the torque was like 50nm lower, and only in the top range was climing. He said, my build would be much faster on the road. Just because this torque is starting from 2500rpm. Goes like a rocket. This is done in the Netherlands. So the figures which i read sometimes on UK forums are on standard engine, but claim over 200hp. Dont know if it is true, but seems sketchy. My tuner said, most dynos are not so strict as they say. Same ofcourse in the Netherlands. So numbers are numbers. But if you really like torque, do this FF inlet and make a cold air intake. For me the cold air intake made +12nm from 3000 till 6000 rpm. Close to 4800 +20nm. I think cams will not give more torque only revs and HP. Also little bit more complicated then changing inlet Manifold.
Great read and really appreciate you taking the time to write it all and all the info. Yeh I see exactly what your saying about by going for more power it's just at the top end which in reality is only good for ragging the nuts out of it or as a track car. But I feel surely once the Fusion Fabrications Inlet and cams with a remap are done that some more power has to if been unleashed lower down as well as up top. As otherwise if all those mods just were up top it would feel like an old school turbo spooling up haha
@@MV1-OP81-Mclaren i really dont know. The tank is always dropping too fast. Its my hobby/project car. So dont pay attention to it. Its a pre -face lift, so also doesnt say in the display.
I'm a bit late to the party here, but I notice the date of your baseline dyno session is Jan and your 2nd dyno is in May. It's extremely likely that the intake air temp in Jan would've been significantly lower than in May, which on its own will account for a difference in power and torque readings (cold air = more dense, therefore more oxygen available to combine with fuel during detonation/burn = more energy = more power).
Yeh since I did this video I went back a 3rd time to test the car in colder conditions and the power did go up. Check the video as I show all three graphs and how the exhaust has made a difference
If you are bothered about losing horsepower through the rev range (or what I think is your daily rev range) do not fit cams or inlet, yes they increase peak horsepower, but overall along the typical usable range 1k-4k rpm you will lose power. I wouldn't get sucked into peak power chasing. Back to your specific problem, you may have chosen an exhaust which is less restrictive, which is good for higher rpm torque, less restrictive. however what might be happening is at lower rpm the combustion mixture is actually exiting the cylinder on the valve overlap (when both inlet and exhaust valves are open at the same time) its likely the stock exhaust was designed to boost the midrange for drivability, via back pressure However I wouldn't have expected a torque decrease, perhaps the car requires a remap. I noted the specific humidity was around 60 degrees on one run and 80 on another, this normally is down to alternative air temperature perhaps again this affects the car more than we think? (I wrote this comment midway through your video, you actually go onto to talk about this) FYI Mountune MP165 kit, comes with a remap, which is air filter and full system, so don't discount it. and it won't make power without increasing torque. Again i'm using Mountune as a good example, the MP165 vs MP185 vs MR200 the MP165 had the highest torque of the lot. I can send you a graph showing this. (I've posted on your fiestastoc thread) Higher AFR means more air, more lean, unsure if actually function of the exhaust or day temps, id actually be concerned about being too lean, perhaps this where the combustion mixture I discussed previously is escaping on the valve overlap? normally a richer AFR (lower number) will increase torque/power, so I think again there are gains to be made via the remap. Your car is most likely putting in the same fuel as before but actually needs more with the new exhaust A remap will by its nature aim for the highest safe torque at each rpm, this will naturally give you higher peak power, The way you describe wanting to boost torque at the expense of peak horsepower is exactly my earlier comment of avoiding cams and an inlet. Horsepower is literally torque x rpm, so limiting horsepower to make torque would strictly mean limiting torque. making torque at high rpm vs low rpm on map doesn't affect one or the other, its the mechanical aspects of the engine.
Great comment and really appreciate you taking the time to write all that down. A lot to re read through. Is strange as must be a placebo as the car feels as though it picks up pace faster and as though it has more torque but must just be the sound that makes it feel faster. I feel my plan needs to be get the FusionFabrications Inlet with Newman cams and remapped at Jamsport more than likely. You would imagine that these mods will obviously make the top end more powerr but should also increase the power through the whole rev range and due to going for the Fusion Fabrications Inlet it should give better mod range torque compared to the likes of Cosworth inlets that reduce torque for top end BHP number hunters
@@DriveWithAndy just a quick thought after watching the video when a car goes on a rolling road doesn't it measure wheel horse power instead of brake horse power ?
I personally would not bother adding any power to account for power loss from tyres etc, yes there will be variables, but you have no way to calculate them, so it is just guess work. They will very from dyno to dyno anyway, using the same one will be the best way to compare progress as the mods increase. As additional information, there is a correction factor built into the dyno calculations, it takes into account air temperature, air pressure and things of that nature, meaning in theory, no matter the conditions, the output reading 'should' give the same results. The AFR you mentioned at the lower revs is showing a leaner mixture. meaning more air is passing through the engine than it was before, and so the ratio of fuel to air is now less. fuelling is one area where having it mapped will help. The bigger exhaust will allow more air flow, but without tuning the ignition timing and fuelling in the map the ECU has no reason to do anything other than standard things, so you just wont see any real gains unfortunately. Having it mapped you will absolutely see and fell improvement, but yes, it will be throwing the money away if you are going to mod it further, which is why people will wait until thing like inlet etc are done.
Great comment and really appreciate taking the time to share all the info. Yeh in the long run, which I'm thinking of, I will just wait in regards to mapping as ideally I want to add some more engine mods in the future so may as well wait. I was booked in the Dyno place again to do another test now the weather is cold again but do you think there is no point? As I just wondered if the colder air will change things a little. Just out of interest
@@DriveWithAndy I drove mine around with full exhaust and air filter for nearly 2 years without remapping, as I knew i would take it further, although might have done it if I knew it would have been that long! So yes fully understand waiting! Well the dyno measures power at the wheels, from there it can calculate the engine power, and then it will apply the correction values. The measured power at the wheels should absolutely be higher, but the be bought back in line after correction values are applied, This is done so you can tune all year round and have meaningful and comparable information to work with. Maybe you could ask if they dyno place has the measured power at the wheels saved on the previous runs to see how much difference there was (if the conditions were different between the two) So in theory it will read the same, however the theory, and in practice, could well be different. It would be interesting to know for sure, but if it is the same, this would be the reason why
Very disappointing BUT a map will definitely get you the power increase these mods should provide (165bhp+). I have similar mods to you not had it dyno'd but it feels/performs way different to standard. I did things one at a time and felt the difference of every mod; Itg foam filter came first which made It feel way more responsive and ever so slightly more powerful. Manifold and cat back came next, most dramatic change by far (Piper manifold), pulled much better all the way through the rev range especially low down! Purchased the Dreamscience unit and flashed the hyper+ map, this made the car have a much more 'tourquey' feel, almost effortless to get to the speed limit. Lastly I fitted a sports cat which made my exhaust sound awesome BUT feels like it's lost that torque and feels like I have to really work for the power a lot more. I'm going to get mine on the Dyno asap and will check back in and let you know what it made. Only differences are the exhaust parts brand (Piper mani, sports cat and milltek cat back) and Dreamscience map.
Thanks for the great comment. It's weird how it feels more responsive and as if it does have better low to mid grunt but must be a placebo as the rolling road showed otherwise haha. Amazing how a louder exhuast it what makes it feel faster when it's actually the same. My plan is to wait and get the Fusion Fabrications Inlet and cams to then be remapped
@@DriveWithAndy as many will say cams aren't for everyone and from what I hear all the time not great if you use your car as a daily. All trial and error with these things.
@@DriveWithAndy thought I'd revisit this video/post as I've swapped my piper sports cat for the same as your Evo 2 and It's totally ruined the way my car drives 😭 feels like a lead weight has been installed. Doesn't rev well at all and torque has been reduced dramatically. The piper will be going back on asap! Keeping the Milltek cat back though, no problem with that. Just thought I'd share my experience after remembering you having disappointing results with the full Evo 2....
I would definitely be checking the leak down on that engine. Also the correction factor. As a point of reference my engine which I built in standard form made 154 and with cams and inlet and ported head 196
What do you mean leak? Exhaust leak? And what's the correction factor? Never heard that phrase before. 154 standard is very good as supposed to be 148. Yeh once you do all the usual mods on them with then a custom remap you should be seeing close to the 200 mark
Get cams and a remap if you want to see some more power. Think Jam Sport do a Cosworth copy inlet for about 400 quid. I think you could reach 200 bhp with both. Oh you would probably need a 60mm throttle body too. I've just realized that will cost you well over a grand though. Anyway good luck.
If I go down the route of more power then I want the Fusion Fabrications Inlet to get more torque than trying to hit 200bhp as all that lower is right at the top. I want more torque than bhp. It looks like a lot of saving will be needed later in the year haha
@@DriveWithAndy I don't know what to say TBH. Your engine only has so much power, what you gain at the top you lose at the bottom and vice versa. What do you need more torque for anyway?
Full exhaust inc cat and manifold, filter and map will see 175 on anyones dyno. D/s hyper r hits the numbers every time. Stay away from the cosworth inlet, there just not worth the effort save your penny’s and go ff the noise you get is worth every penny.
A have Graham Good cais,60mm tba,Miltek flex pipe, Miltek non, resoneted,bluefine stage 2,and works fine,but a haven't tested in rolled road,but got good power.
Yeh I was as just wanted the inlet to gain torque and not increas the revs but seems just fitting and mapping the FF inlet can knacker the engine long term as the inlet was designed with Newman cams in mind so if I do want to go for more power I have to go full out. If not I could just map this
I use on my mrs st150 the dreamscience stratagem bud bought though pumaspeed with they’re custom maps on it aswell,it is just under £500 when a custom map maybe 300 ish but for gradually building up hardware to bolt on it was fine for us, so just plugged into car when had an air filter and loaded up stage 1(160 map they called it at time) then I fitted full miltek like yours but decat😈 loaded up the st182 map, saved up and fitted the cosworth cams plugged in and st190 on car now, got the st200 map on machine but not went for inlet manifold and don’t think I will as my own project car is where my moneys going now, again it’s generic maps but it’s easy way to do it and if you get to inlet manifold and cams and think you can get more from a rolling road tune you can unload your pumaspeed/dreamscience maps and sell the unit on. Ps never had the car on a rolling road so couldn’t say how close the car was to the generic st182,st190 etc but did fell and hear the difference each time. PPs I have caused some confused looks on st180 owners faces when stuck to there back bumper or if had a bit of a run on them and they can’t catch up to pass 😂( up to national speed limit of course).
Great comment and info, really appreciate it and something to think about. Yeh I mean the car as it stands sounds great and the power is good for some fun. Just as the car progress I would like a bit more out of it to just push it that bit further for a spirited drive 😁 Haha that's brilliant about supprising the ST180 turbo lads 🤣👌👍
Personally I wouldn’t bother with a map until your ready for your next mods, you said it yourself it feels like more power so just enjoy it while you’re planning what’s next £300 will go a long way to a fusion inlet I’m the same as you looking to maximise the torque if possible so much better than bhp
Yeh it seems to be the plan. Enjoy it as it's great fun to drive but then can imagine a FF inlet cams and remap will make it a bit of an animal on country roads
I rebuild my compleet engine. With forged higher compression pistons and oversized (11:1 and 88.0mm) forged rods. Ported +polisch my exhaust ports. Full head rebuild. 180lbs springs, ph2 cams, fusion fab inlet, 60mm geniune throttel body, 4-1 EVO 1 miltek and a decat magnaflow exhaust. But first i had a cone filter on the throttle body. Went to the tuner, made 178hp(7800 rpm) and 214nm(5000rpm).
This is on a strict dyno.
I was quite sad it didnt make the 200hp, because everything was claiming this. So went a step further
Made a full custom cold air intake, taking air from before the grill. 2x60mm inlets.
Went again to the tuner. It made 185hp(7800) and 235nm(4800).
Still no 200, but my tuner had a fiesta before with ph2 cams, 4-1 exhaust and a cosworth inlet. Made just over 200. But the torque was like 50nm lower, and only in the top range was climing. He said, my build would be much faster on the road. Just because this torque is starting from 2500rpm.
Goes like a rocket.
This is done in the Netherlands. So the figures which i read sometimes on UK forums are on standard engine, but claim over 200hp. Dont know if it is true, but seems sketchy. My tuner said, most dynos are not so strict as they say. Same ofcourse in the Netherlands.
So numbers are numbers. But if you really like torque, do this FF inlet and make a cold air intake. For me the cold air intake made +12nm from 3000 till 6000 rpm. Close to 4800 +20nm.
I think cams will not give more torque only revs and HP. Also little bit more complicated then changing inlet Manifold.
Great read and really appreciate you taking the time to write it all and all the info. Yeh I see exactly what your saying about by going for more power it's just at the top end which in reality is only good for ragging the nuts out of it or as a track car.
But I feel surely once the Fusion Fabrications Inlet and cams with a remap are done that some more power has to if been unleashed lower down as well as up top. As otherwise if all those mods just were up top it would feel like an old school turbo spooling up haha
@Richard Zwiers What's your fuel economy like after those mods?
@@MV1-OP81-Mclaren i really dont know. The tank is always dropping too fast. Its my hobby/project car. So dont pay attention to it. Its a pre -face lift, so also doesnt say in the display.
I'm a bit late to the party here, but I notice the date of your baseline dyno session is Jan and your 2nd dyno is in May. It's extremely likely that the intake air temp in Jan would've been significantly lower than in May, which on its own will account for a difference in power and torque readings (cold air = more dense, therefore more oxygen available to combine with fuel during detonation/burn = more energy = more power).
Yeh since I did this video I went back a 3rd time to test the car in colder conditions and the power did go up. Check the video as I show all three graphs and how the exhaust has made a difference
If you are bothered about losing horsepower through the rev range (or what I think is your daily rev range) do not fit cams or inlet, yes they increase peak horsepower, but overall along the typical usable range 1k-4k rpm you will lose power.
I wouldn't get sucked into peak power chasing.
Back to your specific problem, you may have chosen an exhaust which is less restrictive, which is good for higher rpm torque, less restrictive. however what might be happening is at lower rpm the combustion mixture is actually exiting the cylinder on the valve overlap (when both inlet and exhaust valves are open at the same time) its likely the stock exhaust was designed to boost the midrange for drivability, via back pressure
However I wouldn't have expected a torque decrease, perhaps the car requires a remap. I noted the specific humidity was around 60 degrees on one run and 80 on another, this normally is down to alternative air temperature perhaps again this affects the car more than we think? (I wrote this comment midway through your video, you actually go onto to talk about this)
FYI Mountune MP165 kit, comes with a remap, which is air filter and full system, so don't discount it. and it won't make power without increasing torque. Again i'm using Mountune as a good example, the MP165 vs MP185 vs MR200 the MP165 had the highest torque of the lot. I can send you a graph showing this. (I've posted on your fiestastoc thread)
Higher AFR means more air, more lean, unsure if actually function of the exhaust or day temps, id actually be concerned about being too lean, perhaps this where the combustion mixture I discussed previously is escaping on the valve overlap? normally a richer AFR (lower number) will increase torque/power, so I think again there are gains to be made via the remap. Your car is most likely putting in the same fuel as before but actually needs more with the new exhaust
A remap will by its nature aim for the highest safe torque at each rpm, this will naturally give you higher peak power, The way you describe wanting to boost torque at the expense of peak horsepower is exactly my earlier comment of avoiding cams and an inlet. Horsepower is literally torque x rpm, so limiting horsepower to make torque would strictly mean limiting torque. making torque at high rpm vs low rpm on map doesn't affect one or the other, its the mechanical aspects of the engine.
Great comment and really appreciate you taking the time to write all that down. A lot to re read through.
Is strange as must be a placebo as the car feels as though it picks up pace faster and as though it has more torque but must just be the sound that makes it feel faster.
I feel my plan needs to be get the FusionFabrications Inlet with Newman cams and remapped at Jamsport more than likely.
You would imagine that these mods will obviously make the top end more powerr but should also increase the power through the whole rev range and due to going for the Fusion Fabrications Inlet it should give better mod range torque compared to the likes of Cosworth inlets that reduce torque for top end BHP number hunters
@@DriveWithAndy just a quick thought after watching the video when a car goes on a rolling road doesn't it measure wheel horse power instead of brake horse power ?
@@mk6rich yeh see 2hat you mean but pretty sure it works out power of the engine not the wheels. Hopefully someone can clearify
I personally would not bother adding any power to account for power loss from tyres etc, yes there will be variables, but you have no way to calculate them, so it is just guess work. They will very from dyno to dyno anyway, using the same one will be the best way to compare progress as the mods increase.
As additional information, there is a correction factor built into the dyno calculations, it takes into account air temperature, air pressure and things of that nature, meaning in theory, no matter the conditions, the output reading 'should' give the same results.
The AFR you mentioned at the lower revs is showing a leaner mixture. meaning more air is passing through the engine than it was before, and so the ratio of fuel to air is now less. fuelling is one area where having it mapped will help.
The bigger exhaust will allow more air flow, but without tuning the ignition timing and fuelling in the map the ECU has no reason to do anything other than standard things, so you just wont see any real gains unfortunately.
Having it mapped you will absolutely see and fell improvement, but yes, it will be throwing the money away if you are going to mod it further, which is why people will wait until thing like inlet etc are done.
Great comment and really appreciate taking the time to share all the info. Yeh in the long run, which I'm thinking of, I will just wait in regards to mapping as ideally I want to add some more engine mods in the future so may as well wait.
I was booked in the Dyno place again to do another test now the weather is cold again but do you think there is no point? As I just wondered if the colder air will change things a little. Just out of interest
@@DriveWithAndy I drove mine around with full exhaust and air filter for nearly 2 years without remapping, as I knew i would take it further, although might have done it if I knew it would have been that long! So yes fully understand waiting!
Well the dyno measures power at the wheels, from there it can calculate the engine power, and then it will apply the correction values.
The measured power at the wheels should absolutely be higher, but the be bought back in line after correction values are applied, This is done so you can tune all year round and have meaningful and comparable information to work with.
Maybe you could ask if they dyno place has the measured power at the wheels saved on the previous runs to see how much difference there was (if the conditions were different between the two)
So in theory it will read the same, however the theory, and in practice, could well be different. It would be interesting to know for sure, but if it is the same, this would be the reason why
Andy you really need to remap the car if you want to compliment your modifications 😎👌 you will see a bigger difference
Very disappointing BUT a map will definitely get you the power increase these mods should provide (165bhp+). I have similar mods to you not had it dyno'd but it feels/performs way different to standard. I did things one at a time and felt the difference of every mod;
Itg foam filter came first which made It feel way more responsive and ever so slightly more powerful. Manifold and cat back came next, most dramatic change by far (Piper manifold), pulled much better all the way through the rev range especially low down! Purchased the Dreamscience unit and flashed the hyper+ map, this made the car have a much more 'tourquey' feel, almost effortless to get to the speed limit.
Lastly I fitted a sports cat which made my exhaust sound awesome BUT feels like it's lost that torque and feels like I have to really work for the power a lot more.
I'm going to get mine on the Dyno asap and will check back in and let you know what it made. Only differences are the exhaust parts brand (Piper mani, sports cat and milltek cat back) and Dreamscience map.
Thanks for the great comment.
It's weird how it feels more responsive and as if it does have better low to mid grunt but must be a placebo as the rolling road showed otherwise haha.
Amazing how a louder exhuast it what makes it feel faster when it's actually the same.
My plan is to wait and get the Fusion Fabrications Inlet and cams to then be remapped
@@DriveWithAndy as many will say cams aren't for everyone and from what I hear all the time not great if you use your car as a daily. All trial and error with these things.
@@DriveWithAndy thought I'd revisit this video/post as I've swapped my piper sports cat for the same as your Evo 2 and It's totally ruined the way my car drives 😭 feels like a lead weight has been installed. Doesn't rev well at all and torque has been reduced dramatically. The piper will be going back on asap! Keeping the Milltek cat back though, no problem with that.
Just thought I'd share my experience after remembering you having disappointing results with the full Evo 2....
I would definitely be checking the leak down on that engine. Also the correction factor. As a point of reference my engine which I built in standard form made 154 and with cams and inlet and ported head 196
What do you mean leak? Exhaust leak? And what's the correction factor? Never heard that phrase before. 154 standard is very good as supposed to be 148. Yeh once you do all the usual mods on them with then a custom remap you should be seeing close to the 200 mark
Get cams and a remap if you want to see some more power. Think Jam Sport do a Cosworth copy inlet for about 400 quid. I think you could reach 200 bhp with both.
Oh you would probably need a 60mm throttle body too. I've just realized that will cost you well over a grand though. Anyway good luck.
If I go down the route of more power then I want the Fusion Fabrications Inlet to get more torque than trying to hit 200bhp as all that lower is right at the top. I want more torque than bhp.
It looks like a lot of saving will be needed later in the year haha
@@DriveWithAndy I don't know what to say TBH. Your engine only has so much power, what you gain at the top you lose at the bottom and vice versa. What do you need more torque for anyway?
Full exhaust inc cat and manifold, filter and map will see 175 on anyones dyno. D/s hyper r hits the numbers every time. Stay away from the cosworth inlet, there just not worth the effort save your penny’s and go ff the noise you get is worth every penny.
A have Graham Good cais,60mm tba,Miltek flex pipe, Miltek non, resoneted,bluefine stage 2,and works fine,but a haven't tested in rolled road,but got good power.
Those Graham good's are expensive from memory but supposed to be the best.
That's a good set up and be good to get it tested to see
Make sure your running 99 Ron that will help
Some of the shelf maps, offer money back guarantees. So if it's any good, then good if not then go back to normal. Thought you was off buying cams!
Yeh I was as just wanted the inlet to gain torque and not increas the revs but seems just fitting and mapping the FF inlet can knacker the engine long term as the inlet was designed with Newman cams in mind so if I do want to go for more power I have to go full out. If not I could just map this
I guess so, due to what it was based on. I would have got the engine fresh as before going for the Dyno.
i’ve hot a cosworth rep inlet going if you want it andy??
Thanks but want the FusionFabrications inlet
How much and is it bolt on ready
I use on my mrs st150 the dreamscience stratagem bud bought though pumaspeed with they’re custom maps on it aswell,it is just under £500 when a custom map maybe 300 ish but for gradually building up hardware to bolt on it was fine for us, so just plugged into car when had an air filter and loaded up stage 1(160 map they called it at time) then I fitted full miltek like yours but decat😈 loaded up the st182 map, saved up and fitted the cosworth cams plugged in and st190 on car now, got the st200 map on machine but not went for inlet manifold and don’t think I will as my own project car is where my moneys going now, again it’s generic maps but it’s easy way to do it and if you get to inlet manifold and cams and think you can get more from a rolling road tune you can unload your pumaspeed/dreamscience maps and sell the unit on. Ps never had the car on a rolling road so couldn’t say how close the car was to the generic st182,st190 etc but did fell and hear the difference each time. PPs I have caused some confused looks on st180 owners faces when stuck to there back bumper or if had a bit of a run on them and they can’t catch up to pass 😂( up to national speed limit of course).
Great comment and info, really appreciate it and something to think about.
Yeh I mean the car as it stands sounds great and the power is good for some fun. Just as the car progress I would like a bit more out of it to just push it that bit further for a spirited drive 😁
Haha that's brilliant about supprising the ST180 turbo lads 🤣👌👍
is that exhaust manifold as well
Yeh full Milltek, so the Evo 2 manifold, sports cat and non Res catback
Personally I wouldn’t bother with a map until your ready for your next mods, you said it yourself it feels like more power so just enjoy it while you’re planning what’s next £300 will go a long way to a fusion inlet
I’m the same as you looking to maximise the torque if possible so much better than bhp
Yeh it seems to be the plan. Enjoy it as it's great fun to drive but then can imagine a FF inlet cams and remap will make it a bit of an animal on country roads
My local mapper will tune these to 160bhp and 210NM
That's good for a totally standard set up I assume.
It's not worth it until you do the cam's and inlet and a remap to get more power
Yeh seems that needs to be the plan
i’ve hot a cosworth rep inlet going if you want it andy??
Thanks for the offer but want the FusionFabrications Inlet for the torque rather than bhp gains
Is cosworth or fusion or pumaspeed ?
How knowse the difrents?