We really forgot the importance of combo videos kids won't started fighting games because it had a super satisfactory risk reward system we did because they had cool looking combos
Majin's 2018? Tekken 7 run got me super hyped. Then I got into kof and Uni... but hey I still love the hype and tense sets more than flashy combos. I go to dmc for that... but... I have an idea.... Note comment was made before I got to the DMC part of the video
Genuinely the experience that took me from just mindlessly button mashing to actually try and get good at fgs was seeing someone do the basic bnb combo in dbfz at evo one year and thinking it was really cool so I wanted to learn how to do it.
Thank you for making this video. It's absolutely true that, especially in fighting games, the world is not so black and white. Different people want different things, and these things can have overlap with each other in different ways. Fighting games are all *about* that nuance and self-expression! It's what makes it such a fun, varied, and timeless genre
I heavily agree that all forms of combo expression down to the fucking American reset are valid. I don't care if it's player/developer accidents that become staples or things that were just always there and a particular player uses the tools in a unique way. That shit is exactly why I live playing, watching, reading, breathing fighting games. A lot of people on Twitter also forget that mind games are rarely the most optimal thing. Imagine losing a major tournament spot and your opponent didn't even deem you worth the brain power to do some of their nastier tech that you've seen in other matches.
New Bambo vid! Wow, that commentator saying you should have saved your meter after you already won REALLY pissed me off. It reminds me of a clip that went around 2 years ago (I think) of a Kage player doing an un-optimal move (EX Tatsu I think) to beat a Karin player. So many were saying it was a bad decision *even though he won*. I guess they've never heard of donkey space. A lot of people in the FGC want solved solutions and optimal exchanges but when something like Fantasy Strike gives them exactly what they *said* they want, they immediately switch gears and bemoan the loss of combo/player expression before whining that you should have saved your meter after using your meter to win. Wild stuff. Keep up the good work!
3:22 that’s a great way to show the point. From what I gather, combo expression can be any successful deviation from a plan or route. Saving the reversal seems like planning for failure instead of adapting.
My argument has always been justin wong wins all the time purely using fundamentals and not optimal combos which in and of itself disproves the stance that optimal combos are how you win. I think resets with magneto in Marvel 2 are a great example of combo expression even though it's two combos. Sometimes they reset purely for style where the infinite would have killed. "Loose" fighting games like max likes to call them are the best purely because of combo expression due to multiple routes from one normal but also because different enders give you different oki locations. It's why in sfiv 3 people play bison but they all play differently. That game has room for expression. Love the content! Keep up the grind! ❤
what a well put together video! i think its also important to combo on combo SYSTEMS as well, be it juggles, cancels, links or even a combination of them. this is why i find beauty in some insane tekken combos.
All combos are an example of combo expression. Vatista has more elaborate and difficult combos than Waldstein because Vatista is a sophisticated android and Waldstein is a big strong grappler. The same point can be made about smaller details like the sound effects moves have and how much hitlag they have. This has everything to do with character aesthetics, which are a huge reason people pick the characters they do in the first place. It's not that expression doesn't exist, it's the opposite - EVERYTHING is expression.
Even talking only about optimal combo, combo expression still exist. Your two combos example it's perfect. There is also meter management, difficulty in high pressure situation, intentional resets, burst safe and not safe.... And many more things that all contribute to the concept of combo expression.
i bet the guy who started all of this wouldnt play HNK or x-men vs street fighter, for most people its just about how hard you can ball and thats poetic in a way
I agree. People sometimes forget mental damage, and that sometimes you don't want to straight up win, you want to feel the salt emanating from them. Back when I played uni (pls giff uni rollback, sakurai!) if I did grd break throw into web as Byakuya, I would just spend all my meter to do as much damage as possible whether it killed or not. Screw my oki dude, my opponent screaming "why is he doing so much off of a THROW!!" >>>>>>> oki.
As someone who plays tekken combo expression is definitely real. There's plenty of times whilst playing tekken instead of going for the safest most possible option I might go for something that leads to a similar position just because I think it's looks cooler. I think the ability to do whacky combos and how those combos might differ between player is personally what's so fun about fighting games. It's why the greatest period of any fighting game is the start where everyone is learning and player expression is at its highest (for the most part)
This reminds me of this one combo I'd do for giggles in SoulCalibur V, basically throwing away all my meter with a combo extension that pushed the combo to maybe 15-20 seconds long, for marginal extra ingame damage, but maximum emotional damage. Good times...
Honestly been looking for a video like this, I remember reading about how you can tell emotions though how players express themselves it's just a really cool concept
I liked your reasoning for playing Strive is simply Testament. I don't understand Guilty Gear, but the only downside for me in Strive is the constant wall breaks which honestly sucks to watch again & again. I'm worried about the Heat Dash in Tekken 8 too coz the same running animation would suck to watch for a decade.
This video has been out for a while, but I may as well say what I feel about saying, as someone who hardly plays traditional fighters. Regardless of what you do or how you play, when you get a hit, you're given a chance to show what you want out of it. Be it a combo you just find enjoyable to see/preform, to being able to make set-ups, etc: Similar things could be said for neutral, advantage or disadvantage. Even if in those situations you have a person who's capable of doing more actions, you're still trying to go for what you think helps your gameplan. And your gameplan, is the one you decide to settle on, regardless of the when, where or why. Not a binary. I suppose to close off what I mean, combo expression is a part of player expression. What you decide to do in your combo, is part of what you decide to do in your gameplay, and by extention, how you express what you want to accomplish.
The word "optimal" carries so much weight. People act as if fighting games are solved, and that you're supposed to strive to always do the maximum amount of damage regardless of everything else in every situation. Even solved games like checkers can be loads of fun because, even though a computer can solve it, doesn't mean a human can make the most mathematically sound decision every turn. A fighting game is the same.
I practice a lot of stupid combo routes, I practice them so when a situation where I can use them comes up I have them down, so I go for them since I trust myself to be able to land the combo. And since I practice them, they mentally come easier to me than BNBs from weird starters. Like, if I land a j.C on a crouching opponent I know it's going to push back a lot, I don't know if my 2B will hit both hits so I go for 66B but I don't know if 623A will hit at that range. BUT I know that 66B crouching hit links into itself up to 5 times so I can do that while I think about how to end the combo. "Combo expression" helps me get consistent combos from situation where I haven't got an optimal bnb ready and loaded. It's also how I could optimise mid screen 5B confirms from 2k damage to 3.1k in a game that had been out for over 6 years.
With Testament, I like to do the c-slash sweep to upwards fireball because I like to combo to stand kick, 6h, into arbiter for optimal damage and corner carry. But if I'm not close enough for that or wanna go for a double low, I go into the down fireball for optimal damage and corner carry, and that would set the fairy for further pressure in neutral. Something I enjoy
As a casual player, I once thought that fighting games were all about reaching that state of optimal play and never deviating from it. As I've thought about the topic more recently, I don't think that's the case anymore, and part of it is that 'optimal' isn't as easy to define as some might think it to be. Depending on the game, there can be a variety in combo 'intent' - that is to say, what your goal is with that particular combo (damage, corner carry, making distance, etc). There may be a combo that does the most for that particular intent, but game mechanics can alter how you approach that. Take Burst as a verry basic example. If there were such a thing as an 'optimal' damage combo, it would be the only combo you'd need. However, your opponent would therefore make the 'optimal' play of Bursting when you start that combo to reduce how much damage they take and return to neutral. Now the mind games start, because you could vary your combo or drop it intentionally to bait a Burst rather than going for the same thing. This is a basic example and once Burst is out of the way you would in theory go right back to that optimal combo, but you get the idea. As an aside, those commentators railing on your decision to use your Super in that Granblue match is causing me so much secondhand frustration for reasons I cannot fully articulate
I believe this topic leads into the discussion of how everyone in the community wants to be and think they are a pro fighting game players these days. I think the word pro is a status. In that sense, I'd only label the top 20 or even 15 players as pros at their specific game. I wouldn't consider those who always go to tournaments and never make top 8 as pros. Same with those who can only place high if the real pros aren't there. They develop this modern mindset of "you can only play this way." Naturally this would change the meaning of combo expression. From being the combo you want to do, into the combo you need to do. I've always been more of a lab person, so experimenting with combos, setups, and systems has always been my favorite part of playing fighting games. So I'd like definitely like more combo expression.
I think it's quite important to have the ability to do something despite it being suboptimal. Fighting games have traditionally only had one way to enjoy them and that's by winning, so SF6 adding what seem to be gametypes is a massive step forward, but it's imperative for the older fanbase to have the way which they enjoy the game as well, and that's with their wacky, flashy, and/or optimal combos.
I'm relatively new to fighting games, started in 2019 with mk11 but really dove in in 2020 with lock down, playing everything I could. Early on, before I fully committed to the genre, I saw someone say 'mk11 has no combo expression'. Now three years later I'm sure they meant either 'mk11 doesn't have as much combo expression as I'd like' or just 'I don't like mk11'... But because I was new and thought everyone knew better than me I really tried hard to understand what mk11 was missing. Sure you didn't have as many options as some other games, but you had options based on meter, dmg, corner carry, super, and some characters had some really showy combos too! So as a confused noob, I almost convinced myself the concept was bs the same way you describe some people doing in the video. Fortunately instead I found the wider community and people who explained these concepts in ways that made more sense to me. It annoys me when folks exaggerate this type of stuff for this reason. Not that we need to stay on our toes for new players 24/7 but I try to help people when I can because of the confusion I had early on... Admittedly it's also partly because Twitter and UA-cam are oddly the best plays to talk to people who really know what they're talking about in the fgc in my experience. Edit - I hope this made any sense, wrote it while waiting in line. Great video regardless! Be we!
Combo expression means styling on the opponent. It's not my fault that my definition of styling is a triple purple grab, all seals susanoo combo route(calling it a combo route because there are multiple variations, extensions, and option selects) that if you don't burst and I don't drop, you're basically dead or at low astral health. Tech the 3 "obvious" purple throws, the game just continues, cause you didn't just put yourself back into neutral. You put us into neutral... In midair.
If you do a wacky combo to style on the opponent that's totally combo expression. It could even be optimal if what you are optimize for is to style on an opponent. Not a joke. Are resets optimal you are giving up guaranteed damage. If two combos will kill but one is way harder are you suboptimal for doing the harder one? What if you are practicing for a later match? People act like it's so simple and forget how much is going on inside and outside the game.
Hey you can do a microdash 5k > 6H after the 236hs. Not relevant just saying. You can make it more consistent too with a dash kara of c.S rather than 2d.
Both sides are wasting time on this, I just want tons of combos and plenty of ways to do them. Air confirms, trade confirms, fullscreen confirms, hit confirms off of assists, multiple starting routes, etc any possible way you can get a hit and turn it into something either optimal or entertaining. Combo expression has always been bad terminology and have led to endless arguments. I also think there is a somewhat of a team fighting game aspect/bias that's being lost in all of this, my favorite fighting games as far as "combo expression" goes are the team heavy ones, so there's that.
Just wanna say I totally think you're right to be annoyed at the commentators in that tournament. Their job is to make the match more exciting, and undercutting someone's win by complaining about their strategy is just bad practice, and I don't think any experienced commentator would say what they said. They let their personal biases get in the way and acted totally out of line. Sorry to hear they rained on your parade.
in tekken 7 and 8 one if my favorit combos is hopkick 1 1 1 f2 f2 f2 hopkick or something like that the damage it bad the carry is ok but the style is 100 so I do it over damage, set and oki if i have played alot of tekken jusf tk see something diffrent
Well melee is very different since your opponent has about as much control over your combo as yourself, in other games your opponent has a burst at most.
@@abjoern I think you have a lot of control over your combos in melee. Rivals is pushing it but the person in advantage state is definitely still more in control of the combo.
Those two announcers seemed annoying as heck. There’s also the aesthetic considerations that go into choosing moves at a time! Not everything has to be maximizing damage at every moment. There are heart play-styles! How does _so_ much of the FGC forget that these games _always_ have aesthetics in addition to game mechanics?! We aren’t all playing a boring moving hurtbox/hitbox game.
I kind of hate the terms "___ expression" and "optimal" Unless you're at EVO, quit worrying about it. It's been said the best combo is the one you can land, and I agree with that 100%. The people who say there's only optimal combos, anything else is just a bad combo are ridiculous. You have all kinds of skill gaps in the game and one frame links aren't something I have ever really hit with any consistency. When the "optimal" route involves that, yeah I'll trade damage for consistency. It is the best choice almost every time.
Combo's done by the players, and how they can do them while being able to win matches competitvely shows not just that "combo expression is a thing", but it also says a lot more about the player, than someone who just rats in a lab all day, memorizing the same touch of death combos. Expression is the essence of joy and personality, and not to mention; creativity in a player, not the same combo use you use for one of 5 different situations you can encounter that you do because "it's optimal". People who are against the idea of combo expression, at the ones we say "Optimize the fun out of video games" they're not players, they're workers, and they're getting uppity about the game they made their 9-5 instead of making the game the love of their life. If someone comes at you for "not playing optimally" you tell them: "Clearly I did, because I did it anyways and won". Real winners don't need to stick to a script, real winners improv.
You know you didn't even have to say it, the second I heard them talking about "he should have saved the meter" chu mean...he won the round???? tf??? don't fix what ain't broke??? That's some wack commentary.
In TFG, you're able to put the controller down when you're getting comboed. In Smash, you better not put the controller down; DI and SDI. You're in control of where you're sent flying. In TFG, you're just stuck watching yourself being slaughtered with no control: DBFZ
We really forgot the importance of combo videos kids won't started fighting games because it had a super satisfactory risk reward system we did because they had cool looking combos
Yeah, the combos are what took me from Street Fighter to anime games, after all
Majin's 2018? Tekken 7 run got me super hyped. Then I got into kof and Uni... but hey I still love the hype and tense sets more than flashy combos. I go to dmc for that... but... I have an idea....
Note comment was made before I got to the DMC part of the video
Watched a single bbcf combo vid at the beginning of March, bought it as soon as it went on sale and have been grinding since. You're SPITTIN
@@GameConnoisseur69 hell yeah bbcf is peak keep the grind going 👍
Genuinely the experience that took me from just mindlessly button mashing to actually try and get good at fgs was seeing someone do the basic bnb combo in dbfz at evo one year and thinking it was really cool so I wanted to learn how to do it.
It seems to me that people often forget that fighting games are in fact games and that games are meant to be fun..
Thank you for making this video. It's absolutely true that, especially in fighting games, the world is not so black and white. Different people want different things, and these things can have overlap with each other in different ways. Fighting games are all *about* that nuance and self-expression! It's what makes it such a fun, varied, and timeless genre
I heavily agree that all forms of combo expression down to the fucking American reset are valid. I don't care if it's player/developer accidents that become staples or things that were just always there and a particular player uses the tools in a unique way. That shit is exactly why I live playing, watching, reading, breathing fighting games. A lot of people on Twitter also forget that mind games are rarely the most optimal thing. Imagine losing a major tournament spot and your opponent didn't even deem you worth the brain power to do some of their nastier tech that you've seen in other matches.
New Bambo vid! Wow, that commentator saying you should have saved your meter after you already won REALLY pissed me off. It reminds me of a clip that went around 2 years ago (I think) of a Kage player doing an un-optimal move (EX Tatsu I think) to beat a Karin player. So many were saying it was a bad decision *even though he won*. I guess they've never heard of donkey space.
A lot of people in the FGC want solved solutions and optimal exchanges but when something like Fantasy Strike gives them exactly what they *said* they want, they immediately switch gears and bemoan the loss of combo/player expression before whining that you should have saved your meter after using your meter to win. Wild stuff. Keep up the good work!
3:22 that’s a great way to show the point. From what I gather, combo expression can be any successful deviation from a plan or route. Saving the reversal seems like planning for failure instead of adapting.
My argument has always been justin wong wins all the time purely using fundamentals and not optimal combos which in and of itself disproves the stance that optimal combos are how you win. I think resets with magneto in Marvel 2 are a great example of combo expression even though it's two combos. Sometimes they reset purely for style where the infinite would have killed. "Loose" fighting games like max likes to call them are the best purely because of combo expression due to multiple routes from one normal but also because different enders give you different oki locations. It's why in sfiv 3 people play bison but they all play differently. That game has room for expression. Love the content! Keep up the grind! ❤
what a well put together video! i think its also important to combo on combo SYSTEMS as well, be it juggles, cancels, links or even a combination of them. this is why i find beauty in some insane tekken combos.
All combos are an example of combo expression. Vatista has more elaborate and difficult combos than Waldstein because Vatista is a sophisticated android and Waldstein is a big strong grappler. The same point can be made about smaller details like the sound effects moves have and how much hitlag they have. This has everything to do with character aesthetics, which are a huge reason people pick the characters they do in the first place. It's not that expression doesn't exist, it's the opposite - EVERYTHING is expression.
Even talking only about optimal combo, combo expression still exist. Your two combos example it's perfect. There is also meter management, difficulty in high pressure situation, intentional resets, burst safe and not safe.... And many more things that all contribute to the concept of combo expression.
i bet the guy who started all of this wouldnt play HNK or x-men vs street fighter, for most people its just about how hard you can ball and thats poetic in a way
I agree. People sometimes forget mental damage, and that sometimes you don't want to straight up win, you want to feel the salt emanating from them. Back when I played uni (pls giff uni rollback, sakurai!) if I did grd break throw into web as Byakuya, I would just spend all my meter to do as much damage as possible whether it killed or not. Screw my oki dude, my opponent screaming "why is he doing so much off of a THROW!!" >>>>>>> oki.
As someone who plays tekken combo expression is definitely real.
There's plenty of times whilst playing tekken instead of going for the safest most possible option I might go for something that leads to a similar position just because I think it's looks cooler.
I think the ability to do whacky combos and how those combos might differ between player is personally what's so fun about fighting games.
It's why the greatest period of any fighting game is the start where everyone is learning and player expression is at its highest (for the most part)
This reminds me of this one combo I'd do for giggles in SoulCalibur V, basically throwing away all my meter with a combo extension that pushed the combo to maybe 15-20 seconds long, for marginal extra ingame damage, but maximum emotional damage. Good times...
Honestly been looking for a video like this, I remember reading about how you can tell emotions though how players express themselves it's just a really cool concept
I liked your reasoning for playing Strive is simply Testament. I don't understand Guilty Gear, but the only downside for me in Strive is the constant wall breaks which honestly sucks to watch again & again. I'm worried about the Heat Dash in Tekken 8 too coz the same running animation would suck to watch for a decade.
Man, so many videos because of one guy being stupid on Twitter.
That aside, it’s weird that people think words can’t have overlap in their meanings.
True, the tweet was ridiculous. Fun to talk about the topic though
I love tech-chasing with Melee Falcon. Peak combo expression
This video has been out for a while, but I may as well say what I feel about saying, as someone who hardly plays traditional fighters.
Regardless of what you do or how you play, when you get a hit, you're given a chance to show what you want out of it.
Be it a combo you just find enjoyable to see/preform, to being able to make set-ups, etc:
Similar things could be said for neutral, advantage or disadvantage.
Even if in those situations you have a person who's capable of doing more actions, you're still trying to go for what you think helps your gameplan.
And your gameplan, is the one you decide to settle on, regardless of the when, where or why.
Not a binary.
I suppose to close off what I mean, combo expression is a part of player expression.
What you decide to do in your combo, is part of what you decide to do in your gameplay, and by extention, how you express what you want to accomplish.
The word "optimal" carries so much weight. People act as if fighting games are solved, and that you're supposed to strive to always do the maximum amount of damage regardless of everything else in every situation. Even solved games like checkers can be loads of fun because, even though a computer can solve it, doesn't mean a human can make the most mathematically sound decision every turn. A fighting game is the same.
I practice a lot of stupid combo routes, I practice them so when a situation where I can use them comes up I have them down, so I go for them since I trust myself to be able to land the combo. And since I practice them, they mentally come easier to me than BNBs from weird starters.
Like, if I land a j.C on a crouching opponent I know it's going to push back a lot, I don't know if my 2B will hit both hits so I go for 66B but I don't know if 623A will hit at that range. BUT I know that 66B crouching hit links into itself up to 5 times so I can do that while I think about how to end the combo.
"Combo expression" helps me get consistent combos from situation where I haven't got an optimal bnb ready and loaded. It's also how I could optimise mid screen 5B confirms from 2k damage to 3.1k in a game that had been out for over 6 years.
With Testament, I like to do the c-slash sweep to upwards fireball because I like to combo to stand kick, 6h, into arbiter for optimal damage and corner carry. But if I'm not close enough for that or wanna go for a double low, I go into the down fireball for optimal damage and corner carry, and that would set the fairy for further pressure in neutral. Something I enjoy
As a casual player, I once thought that fighting games were all about reaching that state of optimal play and never deviating from it. As I've thought about the topic more recently, I don't think that's the case anymore, and part of it is that 'optimal' isn't as easy to define as some might think it to be. Depending on the game, there can be a variety in combo 'intent' - that is to say, what your goal is with that particular combo (damage, corner carry, making distance, etc). There may be a combo that does the most for that particular intent, but game mechanics can alter how you approach that. Take Burst as a verry basic example. If there were such a thing as an 'optimal' damage combo, it would be the only combo you'd need. However, your opponent would therefore make the 'optimal' play of Bursting when you start that combo to reduce how much damage they take and return to neutral. Now the mind games start, because you could vary your combo or drop it intentionally to bait a Burst rather than going for the same thing. This is a basic example and once Burst is out of the way you would in theory go right back to that optimal combo, but you get the idea.
As an aside, those commentators railing on your decision to use your Super in that Granblue match is causing me so much secondhand frustration for reasons I cannot fully articulate
Those tournament commentators like, wtf? You won and they were acting like you lost? It sounded like they weren't really paying attention.
I believe this topic leads into the discussion of how everyone in the community wants to be and think they are a pro fighting game players these days. I think the word pro is a status. In that sense, I'd only label the top 20 or even 15 players as pros at their specific game. I wouldn't consider those who always go to tournaments and never make top 8 as pros. Same with those who can only place high if the real pros aren't there. They develop this modern mindset of "you can only play this way." Naturally this would change the meaning of combo expression. From being the combo you want to do, into the combo you need to do. I've always been more of a lab person, so experimenting with combos, setups, and systems has always been my favorite part of playing fighting games. So I'd like definitely like more combo expression.
I think it's quite important to have the ability to do something despite it being suboptimal. Fighting games have traditionally only had one way to enjoy them and that's by winning, so SF6 adding what seem to be gametypes is a massive step forward, but it's imperative for the older fanbase to have the way which they enjoy the game as well, and that's with their wacky, flashy, and/or optimal combos.
I'm relatively new to fighting games, started in 2019 with mk11 but really dove in in 2020 with lock down, playing everything I could. Early on, before I fully committed to the genre, I saw someone say 'mk11 has no combo expression'. Now three years later I'm sure they meant either 'mk11 doesn't have as much combo expression as I'd like' or just 'I don't like mk11'... But because I was new and thought everyone knew better than me I really tried hard to understand what mk11 was missing. Sure you didn't have as many options as some other games, but you had options based on meter, dmg, corner carry, super, and some characters had some really showy combos too!
So as a confused noob, I almost convinced myself the concept was bs the same way you describe some people doing in the video. Fortunately instead I found the wider community and people who explained these concepts in ways that made more sense to me.
It annoys me when folks exaggerate this type of stuff for this reason. Not that we need to stay on our toes for new players 24/7 but I try to help people when I can because of the confusion I had early on... Admittedly it's also partly because Twitter and UA-cam are oddly the best plays to talk to people who really know what they're talking about in the fgc in my experience.
Edit - I hope this made any sense, wrote it while waiting in line. Great video regardless! Be we!
Combo expression means styling on the opponent. It's not my fault that my definition of styling is a triple purple grab, all seals susanoo combo route(calling it a combo route because there are multiple variations, extensions, and option selects) that if you don't burst and I don't drop, you're basically dead or at low astral health. Tech the 3 "obvious" purple throws, the game just continues, cause you didn't just put yourself back into neutral. You put us into neutral... In midair.
Cool to see more people that play different fighting games. My buddy are all stuck on one game. Kinda sad.
If you do a wacky combo to style on the opponent that's totally combo expression. It could even be optimal if what you are optimize for is to style on an opponent. Not a joke. Are resets optimal you are giving up guaranteed damage. If two combos will kill but one is way harder are you suboptimal for doing the harder one? What if you are practicing for a later match? People act like it's so simple and forget how much is going on inside and outside the game.
i've gotten some questions to answers in this video
Bruh
What’s the song remix at the beginning
This video restated the same thing over and over, the delivery wasn't optimal and therefore the opinion is not valid. /s
Scared me for a second there. Clever, you.
Hey you can do a microdash 5k > 6H after the 236hs. Not relevant just saying. You can make it more consistent too with a dash kara of c.S rather than 2d.
Both sides are wasting time on this, I just want tons of combos and plenty of ways to do them. Air confirms, trade confirms, fullscreen confirms, hit confirms off of assists, multiple starting routes, etc any possible way you can get a hit and turn it into something either optimal or entertaining. Combo expression has always been bad terminology and have led to endless arguments. I also think there is a somewhat of a team fighting game aspect/bias that's being lost in all of this, my favorite fighting games as far as "combo expression" goes are the team heavy ones, so there's that.
Just wanna say I totally think you're right to be annoyed at the commentators in that tournament. Their job is to make the match more exciting, and undercutting someone's win by complaining about their strategy is just bad practice, and I don't think any experienced commentator would say what they said. They let their personal biases get in the way and acted totally out of line. Sorry to hear they rained on your parade.
in tekken 7 and 8 one if my favorit combos is hopkick 1 1 1 f2 f2 f2 hopkick or something like that the damage it bad the carry is ok but the style is 100 so I do it over damage, set and oki if i have played alot of tekken jusf tk see something diffrent
Melee is proof that combo expression is real.
Well melee is very different since your opponent has about as much control over your combo as yourself, in other games your opponent has a burst at most.
@@abjoern I think you have a lot of control over your combos in melee. Rivals is pushing it but the person in advantage state is definitely still more in control of the combo.
yes give eevee that promo!
Those two announcers seemed annoying as heck. There’s also the aesthetic considerations that go into choosing moves at a time! Not everything has to be maximizing damage at every moment. There are heart play-styles!
How does _so_ much of the FGC forget that these games _always_ have aesthetics in addition to game mechanics?! We aren’t all playing a boring moving hurtbox/hitbox game.
What's the name of that song?
Nice video BTW
I kind of hate the terms "___ expression" and "optimal"
Unless you're at EVO, quit worrying about it. It's been said the best combo is the one you can land, and I agree with that 100%. The people who say there's only optimal combos, anything else is just a bad combo are ridiculous. You have all kinds of skill gaps in the game and one frame links aren't something I have ever really hit with any consistency. When the "optimal" route involves that, yeah I'll trade damage for consistency. It is the best choice almost every time.
Combo's done by the players, and how they can do them while being able to win matches competitvely shows not just that "combo expression is a thing", but it also says a lot more about the player, than someone who just rats in a lab all day, memorizing the same touch of death combos.
Expression is the essence of joy and personality, and not to mention; creativity in a player, not the same combo use you use for one of 5 different situations you can encounter that you do because "it's optimal".
People who are against the idea of combo expression, at the ones we say "Optimize the fun out of video games" they're not players, they're workers, and they're getting uppity about the game they made their 9-5 instead of making the game the love of their life.
If someone comes at you for "not playing optimally" you tell them: "Clearly I did, because I did it anyways and won".
Real winners don't need to stick to a script, real winners improv.
GGs bro, I was the I-No
You know you didn't even have to say it, the second I heard them talking about "he should have saved the meter" chu mean...he won the round???? tf??? don't fix what ain't broke??? That's some wack commentary.
In TFG, you're able to put the controller down when you're getting comboed. In Smash, you better not put the controller down; DI and SDI. You're in control of where you're sent flying. In TFG, you're just stuck watching yourself being slaughtered with no control: DBFZ