so many more fireballs, but only so much time Zaferino on Zoning: • Why Your Fireball & Zo... Find me on Twitter: / dazardz Support me on Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/dazisbambo
It's super interesting seeing you played Kage in SFV because I think this mindset around fireballs would change the way you saw that character completely. Watching Daigo realize how to use the Fireball was rly entertaining and eye opening
Oh believe me, I started writing about it, but I couldn't fit it into the video haha But yes, Kage's fireball situation stumped me for a bit but was super interesting. Maybe in a future video!
Makes me think of what I've seen about fireballs in Third Strike (probably from Bafael). They have a reputation of being useless in Third Strike due to parries, which negate chip and, more importantly, generate meter for the opponent. Due to parry, you absolutely cannot throw out fireballs the intuitively safe way. What you absolutely can do though is use fireballs as part of footsies, as you learned here; and it isn't because it's harder to react with parry at close range or anything. Rather, it's because fireballs put you in many more frames of "parry stun" than they do block stun while also reducing pushback: this means parrying a close fireball can leave you dealing with a strike/throw mix at the least.
My favorite part of the intricate fireball neutral that makes up so much of what makes GBVS(R) special is when I press 2U+S with Six and just ignore all of it
One cool thing is that this play you noticed from Ken is now even more viable from Ryu. A neat change that happened with the most recent update is that they moved Ryu's fireball hurt box back just that little bit more seeing as you can use an invincible move like Luke OD Uppercut to actually punish them at around whiff punish range. It is now much harder to do it to Ryu, keeping the tradition of him being slightly better at fireballs. I also really relate to that part about Metera needing to be careful about setting up her butterflies. Really reminds me of my challenges of trying to set up and use portals as JP. Fun vid!
the beginning bit reminds me of how Ryo Sakazaki's been using his "fireball" for pretty much all of his KOF appearances--a big eff-off hurtbox that can advance forward and be used as a very strong poke/not quite as death on block special--and that's always been a very cool bit of his gameplay for me. pity he's one of the top 5 in xv so i can't play him without feeling like a monster but i love when the concept of a fireball is played with like that
Fireball discussion is so cool. It's a shame the genre grows increasingly rushdown focused because the humble fireball has so much potential and carries so much of the genre
@@terry.1428 what? It was anime fighters that truly innovated the fireball game and zoning. Wherever else would you get Kum Haeyun's miracle fireballs or Venom as a character????
yea old heads knew about poking with fbs. which is why the better characters in old games could end their poke strings in projectiles or similar moves without lingering hurtboxes.
I enjoy this subject. Projectiles can do a lot more than keep them away, and depending on the game and character can be used in very unique ways. I wish I could tell you the version of Accent Core that Ky has a Stun Edge Infinite, but the spacing on that and timing are so tight you'd never believe it. I....never knew that grounded projectiles in Rising couldn't be rolled passed. Thanks for the vid.
Some other interesting applications of fireballs found in Granblue: 1. Zooey's dragon can be used like a regular fireball, but then afterwards, they can be put in place to then trigger additional fireballs from different positions (including from behind you) 2. Lowain's fireballs include his bros Tommy and Sammy (who will run at you and then either jump or dive), a flaming wheel of some kind (that will beat other fireballs), his Katapillar summons that can either fire a beam or a bunch of missiles, or just charge at you like a regular fireball, and an entire super that turns the game into a dodge the fireball mini game
"Wasted Movement. You're hiding behind your movement." Yes. Exactly. If i'm moving with purpose but it looks like wiggling, its not wasted. If there was a stamina bar that punished me, then he'd have a point. If I do the movement and its impedes my ability to do what i'm trying to do, then he has a point. I could be wrong but it sounds like hes dissuading deceptive movement as a sign of nervousness. Sorry, but if you know what you're doing then that's just bad advice if true.
Man, I know your experience is with the newer SF games and Granblue but there are so many interesting fireballs you missed out on. KOF and SNK games in general are absolutely rife with insane fireballs shoutouts to Ryo and Robert for having the absolute GOAT version of a short fireball and Terry for the classic short range power wave. Samurai Showdown has Genjuro's weirdo ricocheting fireball that seems to be the inspiration for Anji's butterflies in XX. UNI's got both Hilda and Carmine, Carmine being kind of like a projectile version of ZATO=1/Eddie and seems like the inspiration for Belial's projectiles, (though maybe that's a little bit more of Warachia from Melty). My favourite weird fireball has gotta be F Powered Ciel's rock, you pick up a chunk of rock out of the ground then you can choose to kick it forward as a huge projectile, it's usable in a ton of different ways, most commonly as a setup on your opponent's knockdown.
How about arcana heart, daemon bride, aquapazza, blade arcus? Tons of different projectiles. In daemon bride there's a dedicated button for projectiles. Everyone has multiple specialized projectiles
I started loving fighting games on Mu-12 and Venom, so I've been really happy with GBVS playing into the pressure projectile game (mainly Eustace and Belial for me).
Dope video dude! Captured a lot of what fascinates me about fighting game fireballs that I've had trouble finding words for Also s/o to Nanase's fireball from UNIST: That shit has so many variations just based off of tiger kneeing or a single disjointed normal that it makes the head spin. That fireball has *layers*
in sf6, the inherent danger of fireball up close is the perfect parry punish. look at tokidos matches against luke players in the lcq. although i will say, im goin to use fireballl more like this until my opponent proves they can deal with it. throwing out a hitbox without the possibility of a whiff punish? yea, thats a dope vid
Great video very in depth look into the archetypical Fireball. Personally I think overhead fireballs deserve an honorable mention especially since you covered the Low Fireball and Ground Spark. Shouts out JP and god bless fullscreen mix.
Nice video! I wonder if it could also be Xiao Hai's KOF brain using the fireball more as an extension of a normal than true zoning tool. I know the greater objective was to explore projectile conversations as a whole, but I think the premise with SF6 might be a bit misleading because of how they've changed the projectile interaction. In the early match meta, with jumps being floatier and drive rush so prevalent, a lot of the conversation is horizontal. While Ken has strong normals, Cammy does too, and can connect a 2MK into a larger conversion quite easily, so the risk/reward for Xiao Hai to throw out a normal really isn't something to rely on. For the late game, spin knuckle takes on way too much risk, and OD divekick cannot cancel into DR or SA1. Punk was at a life deficit and only had SA1. Even with invincibility in SA1s, unless also a projectile, they explicitly cannot go through any level of projectile. Punk has very fast reactions, so at worst, even at a safe distance he can react to a normal, punish with super, then be at an advantageous state with a closer life situation. With someone that can react to a Dragonlash and could win in the normal war (Cammy also has strong CH buttons), while jumps are not the best (but artificially made strong by inconsistent AAs), along with OD moves not being able to be cancelled into anything under SA2, it really benefits Xiao Hai to control neutral at that range in that situation with a projectile. Or that's how I see it anyway!
I love a good close range fireball. A good part of this comes from playing Kage where not only were his normal hadokens intentionally designed as close range fireballs, but shakunetsu had a role there as well. After pressing stmk, shakunetsu would shrink Kage's hurtbox so that if they pressed a button in response to contest space, they'd get knocked down. I really actually liked that about SFV in general that most of the shotos had normals that were a little stubby, where they were meant to compensate for that range with fireballs. It made for enjoyable gameplay so long as you weren't staring down something like Rog VS1.
as a dhalsim main i got so excited when you mentioned the lack of an extended hurtbox because that's something i'm constantly thinking about with my stretchy long normals. i have to analyze whether i should be using limbs or projectiles to zone edit: good zoners get jumped in on 😭 that's so interesting, i need to take more risks and zone more aggressively. liked and subscribed for the good advice
The weird thing is, I'm fairly new to the fgc and using fireballs as a disjointed poke is just how i thought they were supposed to be used. Throwing them at long range to me is basically a moment where I go "I'm going to either run behind this or prepare to snti-air depending on if im in a zoning or pressure mood" and other than that rare (for me, I tend to play shotos with even worse fireballs than ken) situation, fireballs were pretty much exclusively disjointed pokes with big range.
I was actually thinking of making a video exactly about this in the context of 3rd strike, specifically Ryu. It was something I noticed was super strong especially against strong poke characters like chun and Dudley, and I’m glad someone else saw it too!
Great analysis on intricate fireball mechanics! One I appreciate is AC+R Millia Rage's Secret Garden. It's very slow, not something to do safely at midscreen, but as a callout or for oki, it feels great to execute with it since you input each direction the orb will move _in startup_. Sort of like that red scythe fireball you showed in the video, but as a read. My favorite: Venom's pool balls. Very, very fun to play, watch, and fight against. He positions intangible pool balls with a variety of positioning options. He can hit them at different angles, speeds, and with different properties. He can teleport to them too! Leading to jazz like normal>sweep>poolball set, airdash crossup poolball set, land, normal, shoot a pool ball, teleport to a poolball, hit another poolball, chase.. Venom plays Chess
Close range fireballs are common in Super Turbo! Of course, in that game, some fireballs knock down, and antifireball tools like slides and tatsu are more prominent and punishing at mid levels.
Maybe I’m not remembering right since I only really went over it once in my 8 months of fighting game experience but I think xiaohai’s usage of fireball is covered in The Footsies Handbook.
funnily enough strive bedman's pin thing and subsequent error are both his zoning tool and his main way to get out of a punishable combo if the opponent's blocking--for instance, c.S > 2S > 2H > 236S is one of his go to, BnB combos but 236S is super punishable if blocked so a lot of times players will disengage with 236P (his pin / projectile) to push the opponent back
Hot take: KoF projectiles are used a lot closer than SF fireballs. Since you can roll through projectiles in KoF its very common to roll rather than take the block. Xiaohai being a KoF player it's probably more second nature for him.
8:25 ngl its very intresting that 2D FGs are the one videogame genre where slow fireballs are desirable, usually in other game genres people want fireballs to be as fast as possible so their opponent have less time to react and avoid them
Thank you for reminding me of SFV Sagat's horrible hobo cloak. (anyone know a word that starts h that is a synonym for cloak so I can have a triple alliteration)
While Anre may be a winner in a fireball game by default; his lazor still have weaknesses. Like, decently slow startup, no vertical cover, only 2 variants of timing is kind of stiff. (I felt that) U version burns meter, but exists to cover for all weaknesses. What I was forgetting before watching high level replays - is that he's got traditional fireball in L follow up from twirl. And it's as good as any traditional fireball. If SF6 had replay takeover - I would make sure I can't just punish those close fireballs with just Cammy cr.HK, idk. I'm watching and thinking: it does look insanely sketchy.
Why not just drive impact if your opponent uses fireballs at melee range ? If you're expecting it it should be easy enough to react to, and it shouldn't leave enough recovery for the opponent to DI themselves
Because close range fireballs are mostly unreactable. For example Ryu's HP fireball is 12 frames that start up well past the max human reaction. At longer distances the travel time makes it reactable but at close range you are getting hit by it if you are trying to react as it travels too fast. DI on prediction is very high risk as if you guess wrong your opponent is gonna DI back hit you for a bunch of damage and drain your drive gauge which is bad because drive gauge management is often difficult at high level. In short DI against close range fireballs at high level is a high risk. Truth is if you are gonna try to predict the fireball with a risky play you are probably better off jumping since a anti-air in most cases is less damaging then getting counter DI. So while it is an option, perfect parry or trying to counter poke the start up of a fireball animation is generally safer
gunflame feint save me...
Did I getcha?
Ha! Tricked ya!
Nope!
my favorite genre of fighting game videos: guy explains something for 20 odd minutes
I too love Leon Massey
What about 20 “even” minutes? 👀
Same
Took the wrong lesson from this now I’m playing all of my zoners at extreme close range
It's super interesting seeing you played Kage in SFV because I think this mindset around fireballs would change the way you saw that character completely.
Watching Daigo realize how to use the Fireball was rly entertaining and eye opening
Oh believe me, I started writing about it, but I couldn't fit it into the video haha
But yes, Kage's fireball situation stumped me for a bit but was super interesting. Maybe in a future video!
Makes me think of what I've seen about fireballs in Third Strike (probably from Bafael). They have a reputation of being useless in Third Strike due to parries, which negate chip and, more importantly, generate meter for the opponent. Due to parry, you absolutely cannot throw out fireballs the intuitively safe way. What you absolutely can do though is use fireballs as part of footsies, as you learned here; and it isn't because it's harder to react with parry at close range or anything. Rather, it's because fireballs put you in many more frames of "parry stun" than they do block stun while also reducing pushback: this means parrying a close fireball can leave you dealing with a strike/throw mix at the least.
It reminded me of Bafael’s explanation too!
My favorite part of the intricate fireball neutral that makes up so much of what makes GBVS(R) special is when I press 2U+S with Six and just ignore all of it
One cool thing is that this play you noticed from Ken is now even more viable from Ryu. A neat change that happened with the most recent update is that they moved Ryu's fireball hurt box back just that little bit more seeing as you can use an invincible move like Luke OD Uppercut to actually punish them at around whiff punish range. It is now much harder to do it to Ryu, keeping the tradition of him being slightly better at fireballs. I also really relate to that part about Metera needing to be careful about setting up her butterflies. Really reminds me of my challenges of trying to set up and use portals as JP. Fun vid!
the beginning bit reminds me of how Ryo Sakazaki's been using his "fireball" for pretty much all of his KOF appearances--a big eff-off hurtbox that can advance forward and be used as a very strong poke/not quite as death on block special--and that's always been a very cool bit of his gameplay for me. pity he's one of the top 5 in xv so i can't play him without feeling like a monster but i love when the concept of a fireball is played with like that
Doesn't xiaohai main kof?
Thanks, now I want to play Granblue again!
Same
Fireball discussion is so cool. It's a shame the genre grows increasingly rushdown focused because the humble fireball has so much potential and carries so much of the genre
Animebrain is ruining fighting games
@@terry.1428umm no, other then NRS games anime games are the only place where you can actually play the projectile game
The increasing rushdown focus is honestly the worst thing about newer fgs.
@@terry.1428 what? It was anime fighters that truly innovated the fireball game and zoning.
Wherever else would you get Kum Haeyun's miracle fireballs or Venom as a character????
@@GarethXLso just fuck SF , KOF, Fatal Fury, Samsho?
Call me Akihiko because I've been waiting for this!
You've got me wanting to play Granblue Rising again! I should dust off my Djeeta.
yea old heads knew about poking with fbs. which is why the better characters in old games could end their poke strings in projectiles or similar moves without lingering hurtboxes.
"good zoners get jumped in on" im gonna make sure i never forget this
I enjoy this subject. Projectiles can do a lot more than keep them away, and depending on the game and character can be used in very unique ways. I wish I could tell you the version of Accent Core that Ky has a Stun Edge Infinite, but the spacing on that and timing are so tight you'd never believe it. I....never knew that grounded projectiles in Rising couldn't be rolled passed. Thanks for the vid.
Some other interesting applications of fireballs found in Granblue:
1. Zooey's dragon can be used like a regular fireball, but then afterwards, they can be put in place to then trigger additional fireballs from different positions (including from behind you)
2. Lowain's fireballs include his bros Tommy and Sammy (who will run at you and then either jump or dive), a flaming wheel of some kind (that will beat other fireballs), his Katapillar summons that can either fire a beam or a bunch of missiles, or just charge at you like a regular fireball, and an entire super that turns the game into a dodge the fireball mini game
"Wasted Movement. You're hiding behind your movement."
Yes. Exactly. If i'm moving with purpose but it looks like wiggling, its not wasted. If there was a stamina bar that punished me, then he'd have a point. If I do the movement and its impedes my ability to do what i'm trying to do, then he has a point. I could be wrong but it sounds like hes dissuading deceptive movement as a sign of nervousness. Sorry, but if you know what you're doing then that's just bad advice if true.
Just came here from this vid and have been binge watching you since. You make genuinely some of the best fgc content ive seen in a long time
Hell yea, always thought this was interesting but i havent the words to express this. Thank you for vocalizing this.
Bridgets yoyo is my favorite fireball of all time its so fun!
As the other person in the FGC who is also a huge baseball fan, i gotta throw big ups on the mention of the season starting soon
Man, I know your experience is with the newer SF games and Granblue but there are so many interesting fireballs you missed out on. KOF and SNK games in general are absolutely rife with insane fireballs shoutouts to Ryo and Robert for having the absolute GOAT version of a short fireball and Terry for the classic short range power wave. Samurai Showdown has Genjuro's weirdo ricocheting fireball that seems to be the inspiration for Anji's butterflies in XX. UNI's got both Hilda and Carmine, Carmine being kind of like a projectile version of ZATO=1/Eddie and seems like the inspiration for Belial's projectiles, (though maybe that's a little bit more of Warachia from Melty). My favourite weird fireball has gotta be F Powered Ciel's rock, you pick up a chunk of rock out of the ground then you can choose to kick it forward as a huge projectile, it's usable in a ton of different ways, most commonly as a setup on your opponent's knockdown.
I've played all these games, but you're absolutely right! Wish I had the time to cover all of these haha
How about arcana heart, daemon bride, aquapazza, blade arcus? Tons of different projectiles.
In daemon bride there's a dedicated button for projectiles. Everyone has multiple specialized projectiles
I started loving fighting games on Mu-12 and Venom, so I've been really happy with GBVS playing into the pressure projectile game (mainly Eustace and Belial for me).
Petitioning for a video about all the other granblue fireballs
I will keep it in mind haha
@@DazIsBambo thank you i will now watch 3 other of your almost hour long fighting game videos
Damn learned a lot today, thanks!!
Dope video dude! Captured a lot of what fascinates me about fighting game fireballs that I've had trouble finding words for
Also s/o to Nanase's fireball from UNIST: That shit has so many variations just based off of tiger kneeing or a single disjointed normal that it makes the head spin. That fireball has *layers*
Very nice! I enjoyed learning even more about the fireballs of Granblue.
in sf6, the inherent danger of fireball up close is the perfect parry punish. look at tokidos matches against luke players in the lcq. although i will say, im goin to use fireballl more like this until my opponent proves they can deal with it. throwing out a hitbox without the possibility of a whiff punish? yea, thats a dope vid
Imagine if he did this 17 minute video, and Chowder responds with "i like the chip" xd
Great video very in depth look into the archetypical Fireball. Personally I think overhead fireballs deserve an honorable mention especially since you covered the Low Fireball and Ground Spark. Shouts out JP and god bless fullscreen mix.
looking back at the punk clip im realizing fireball clashes at that range look REALLY good for ken, especially with the life lead he had
Youre sooooo good at articulating your thoughts in a casual, yet not incohesive way! great work! keep it up!
Awesome insight
Nice video! I wonder if it could also be Xiao Hai's KOF brain using the fireball more as an extension of a normal than true zoning tool. I know the greater objective was to explore projectile conversations as a whole, but I think the premise with SF6 might be a bit misleading because of how they've changed the projectile interaction. In the early match meta, with jumps being floatier and drive rush so prevalent, a lot of the conversation is horizontal. While Ken has strong normals, Cammy does too, and can connect a 2MK into a larger conversion quite easily, so the risk/reward for Xiao Hai to throw out a normal really isn't something to rely on. For the late game, spin knuckle takes on way too much risk, and OD divekick cannot cancel into DR or SA1. Punk was at a life deficit and only had SA1. Even with invincibility in SA1s, unless also a projectile, they explicitly cannot go through any level of projectile. Punk has very fast reactions, so at worst, even at a safe distance he can react to a normal, punish with super, then be at an advantageous state with a closer life situation. With someone that can react to a Dragonlash and could win in the normal war (Cammy also has strong CH buttons), while jumps are not the best (but artificially made strong by inconsistent AAs), along with OD moves not being able to be cancelled into anything under SA2, it really benefits Xiao Hai to control neutral at that range in that situation with a projectile. Or that's how I see it anyway!
Lovely take on this gaming heuristic. :)
I love a good close range fireball. A good part of this comes from playing Kage where not only were his normal hadokens intentionally designed as close range fireballs, but shakunetsu had a role there as well. After pressing stmk, shakunetsu would shrink Kage's hurtbox so that if they pressed a button in response to contest space, they'd get knocked down. I really actually liked that about SFV in general that most of the shotos had normals that were a little stubby, where they were meant to compensate for that range with fireballs. It made for enjoyable gameplay so long as you weren't staring down something like Rog VS1.
as a dhalsim main i got so excited when you mentioned the lack of an extended hurtbox because that's something i'm constantly thinking about with my stretchy long normals. i have to analyze whether i should be using limbs or projectiles to zone
edit: good zoners get jumped in on 😭 that's so interesting, i need to take more risks and zone more aggressively. liked and subscribed for the good advice
It seems that the only thing holding belial back from his full potential was his shirt
The weird thing is, I'm fairly new to the fgc and using fireballs as a disjointed poke is just how i thought they were supposed to be used. Throwing them at long range to me is basically a moment where I go "I'm going to either run behind this or prepare to snti-air depending on if im in a zoning or pressure mood" and other than that rare (for me, I tend to play shotos with even worse fireballs than ken) situation, fireballs were pretty much exclusively disjointed pokes with big range.
I was actually thinking of making a video exactly about this in the context of 3rd strike, specifically Ryu. It was something I noticed was super strong especially against strong poke characters like chun and Dudley, and I’m glad someone else saw it too!
And there is Chipp Zanuff who does have a hurtbox on his fireball
Great analysis on intricate fireball mechanics! One I appreciate is AC+R Millia Rage's Secret Garden. It's very slow, not something to do safely at midscreen, but as a callout or for oki, it feels great to execute with it since you input each direction the orb will move _in startup_. Sort of like that red scythe fireball you showed in the video, but as a read.
My favorite: Venom's pool balls. Very, very fun to play, watch, and fight against. He positions intangible pool balls with a variety of positioning options. He can hit them at different angles, speeds, and with different properties. He can teleport to them too! Leading to jazz like normal>sweep>poolball set, airdash crossup poolball set, land, normal, shoot a pool ball, teleport to a poolball, hit another poolball, chase.. Venom plays Chess
So basically the butterflies turn her from Sagat to Goenitz.
Close range fireballs are common in Super Turbo! Of course, in that game, some fireballs knock down, and antifireball tools like slides and tatsu are more prominent and punishing at mid levels.
Street Fighter League was AWESOME. I love Bandits so much
Fireballs are truly FIRE!
15:33 - Instead of "chess", I was expecting "a game of butterfly".
I see Hades. Let's go.
Didn't know there were so many different ways to use fireballs.
I'm still watching the vid but I'm gonna say thanks for it anyways!
Maybe I’m not remembering right since I only really went over it once in my 8 months of fighting game experience but I think xiaohai’s usage of fireball is covered in The Footsies Handbook.
Metera HYPE! Good video!
YO! No wonder I like zoners so much. This is some of the most interesting parts of Fighting games to me : D
Venom balls my beloved
funnily enough strive bedman's pin thing and subsequent error are both his zoning tool and his main way to get out of a punishable combo if the opponent's blocking--for instance, c.S > 2S > 2H > 236S is one of his go to, BnB combos but 236S is super punishable if blocked so a lot of times players will disengage with 236P (his pin / projectile) to push the opponent back
your B-roll footage is like a 'who's who' of EU persona goats I love it
very well done vid
As a Soriz main. Hahahaha... Fireballs. I am the fireball with armor.
7:14 BOOBA
That's just Ryo Sakasaki's short range fire ball.
great video!
good thing they added 2B who has the beam but grounded and doesnt have a cd
I personally use fireballs, albeit in ggst, to make moves safe and as a kind of built in rekka.
I play sol
Check out John Choi. He's known for having a mad fireball game with Ryu and using Hadoken at close range.
Hot take: KoF projectiles are used a lot closer than SF fireballs. Since you can roll through projectiles in KoF its very common to roll rather than take the block. Xiaohai being a KoF player it's probably more second nature for him.
I miss order sols projectile, if was different
Especially with his cool mechanic where you can charge up attacks
8:25 ngl its very intresting that 2D FGs are the one videogame genre where slow fireballs are desirable, usually in other game genres people want fireballs to be as fast as possible so their opponent have less time to react and avoid them
good video
any of your thoughts. And subscribe if you want to see more, but otherwise, thank you watching and have a nice day.
KOF XV has the most egregious fireballs you can follow behind.
I dont think I've ever seen someone willingly use Anre before. You muat be a cryptid.
Hey! Thats me the bronze Vega! :D
Thank you for reminding me of SFV Sagat's horrible hobo cloak. (anyone know a word that starts h that is a synonym for cloak so I can have a triple alliteration)
"fireball wars have never looked better."
Hmmmmm I dunno, have you ever played Touhou HIsouten Soku?
Xiaohai is just doing the Mang0
Dollbaby Lucilus 😍
I saw that 1 frame link anre BnB flex at the end. Don't think I didn't.
Busted, and I'm fully happy about it
Man, gbvsr is pretty fun. I just got the free edition, but i really only play gran and anila
fun video but im really surprised you didnt mention guilty gear, specifically venom and testament
Well, I guess I'll give Granblue Fantasy another try.
While Anre may be a winner in a fireball game by default; his lazor still have weaknesses. Like, decently slow startup, no vertical cover, only 2 variants of timing is kind of stiff. (I felt that) U version burns meter, but exists to cover for all weaknesses.
What I was forgetting before watching high level replays - is that he's got traditional fireball in L follow up from twirl. And it's as good as any traditional fireball.
If SF6 had replay takeover - I would make sure I can't just punish those close fireballs with just Cammy cr.HK, idk. I'm watching and thinking: it does look insanely sketchy.
How you dont talk about hol horse from heritage for the future?
music list plz
Soriz' fireball is Punch
Grandblue?
How many times did he say fireball in this video?
Whats the game at 4:17 ?
kyskke sent me
Why not just drive impact if your opponent uses fireballs at melee range ? If you're expecting it it should be easy enough to react to, and it shouldn't leave enough recovery for the opponent to DI themselves
Because close range fireballs are mostly unreactable.
For example Ryu's HP fireball is 12 frames that start up well past the max human reaction. At longer distances the travel time makes it reactable but at close range you are getting hit by it if you are trying to react as it travels too fast.
DI on prediction is very high risk as if you guess wrong your opponent is gonna DI back hit you for a bunch of damage and drain your drive gauge which is bad because drive gauge management is often difficult at high level.
In short DI against close range fireballs at high level is a high risk. Truth is if you are gonna try to predict the fireball with a risky play you are probably better off jumping since a anti-air in most cases is less damaging then getting counter DI.
So while it is an option, perfect parry or trying to counter poke the start up of a fireball animation is generally safer
looking back at the punk clip im realizing fireball clashes at that range look REALLY good for ken, especially with the life lead he had