How Does Brake-By-Wire Work? Plus: Audi e-Tron Sportback Review!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2020
- Is Brake-By-Wire Safe? First drive in the 2020 Audi e-Tron Sportback!
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Audi's e-Tron Sportback features brake-by-wire. What is brake-by-wire, and is it safe? In this video we'll look at the technology and engineering involved with brake-by-wire, talk about why it's done, what benefits it has, and what failsafes exists in case of emergency situations. Brake-by-wire ultimately uses electronic control of the disc brakes. But if things go wrong, there's still a way to stop the car. Check out the video to learn all about it!
From Audi's Press Release:
"New for model year 2021, the Audi e-tron model lines receive impressive revised packaging, including attractive entry pricing with a new Premium trim level. As a result, the e-tron SUV is offered at $65,900 starting MSRP for the model year 2021, a decrease of close to $9,000 from the starting MSRP of the model year 2019 Premium Plus e-tron. The e-tron lineup also receives a number of technical spec enhancements for improved utility. Through optimized drive system hardware and software adjustments, the 2021 e-tron achieves efficiency improvements resulting in an EPA-estimated range of 222 miles, an increase of 18 miles. Meanwhile, the e-tron Sportback delivers an EPA-estimated range of 218 miles.
As technology progresses, the e-tron lineup has seen its most significant improvements with available battery capacity and efficiency. For a more efficient configuration, thanks to a number of optimizations, the front electric motor is able to be entirely disengaged, dramatically reducing power usage when not needed. Only when the driver demands more power or traction do both motors spring into action, providing the surefootedness of Audi quattro® technology and the powerful dynamics Audi is known for.
In addition, the usable amount of the high-voltage battery has increased for the model year 2021 e-tron lineup. The battery in the Audi e-tron and e-tron Sportback have a total capacity of 95 kWh and now gives customers access to a net energy figure of 86.5 kWh- almost 3 kWh more than 2019 e-tron model. The energy buffer is designed to help ensure customers enjoy sustained battery performance throughout the life of the vehicle.
Enhancing the charging experience are dual charge ports on the driver and passenger side of the vehicles, newly available on the Premium Plus trims of the e-tron and e-tron Sportback."
Source: media.audiusa.com/en-us/relea...
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If the system fails, a trapdoor drops out of the floor and you stick your feet out like Fred Flintsone.
🤣
freezeme360 and when those wear out you have to get new ones coded to the car you can’t just get new ones off the shelf and expect them to work.
Yes Willma!
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Danger to manifold!
Brakes are overrated.
Remember...if the brakes don’t stop you, something else will;)
And it's free.
Laws of physics.
(Read it like sing metal song laws of nature)
@@apocalypse487 For one-time use only.
10:05 please.. PLEASE overlay data in metrical units on the video. This is an engineering channel. Otherwise, good video!
Metrical?
@@mikescherrer4923 yes, metrical.
I mean, not to be pedantic but all units are “metrical” by definition. You would want Metric units. The system is called the Metric system. My phone even capitalized it lol.
@@mikescherrer4923 but you are. We all knew he meant metric :p
@@mikescherrer4923 Metrical? You must have gone to that train conducting school in Mississippi, didn't you?
(I'm from Alabama, so Mississippi is fair game. I hear they talk about us just as often.)
Mercedes SBC would like to wish you a nice day.
Jep. And Toyota has this exact principle of Brake by Wire since 2000 with the first Prius nhw11. X) Audi did nothing new.
😂😂😂 I'm a benz tech and this is to funny !
@@danielquintero5186 me too, we are still replacing hydraulic units to this day.
I've got this SBC brake system from hell in an e270cdi from 2003. Garbage...
Yeh. Its all fun and games until it breaks) )
I can confirm - you very rarely need more than the regen braking on the etron, the brake disks tend to show quite a bit of rust even when the car is driven regularly.
edit: also can't speak for the newest etron models, but the original model will default to charging up to 80% of the capacity available to the end user.
Yes - from the manual "You can set the charging target, meaning you can set the maximum charge level to which the high- voltage battery should be charged. The charging target can be set between 50% and 100%. For daily usage, Audi recommends setting the charg- ing target at 80%. This can extend the service life of the high-voltage battery. Before long trips, Audi recommends setting the charging target at 100% for the highest possible range."
It has a brake disc wiper to prevent rust
Jason, there is a daily and trip charge with the e-tron. From the manual:
"You can set the charging target, meaning you can set the maximum charge level to which the high- voltage battery should be charged. The charging target can be set between 50% and 100%. For daily usage, Audi recommends setting the charg- ing target at 80%. This can extend the service life of the high-voltage battery. Before long trips, Audi recommends setting the charging target at 100% for the highest possible range."
This is true, but only from the perspective of the consumer. Even the "100%" charge only uses 90% of the battery. This is audis way of appearing to appeal to the enthusiast and trying to quash people's fears about full-charging.
i think they main point is, to have smaller batteries, less waste, less price and the same value. if the only thing you do is your daily commute of 20 miles threw the city, why do you need 200 range? if a "SMART EV" (i mean the car manufaturer) existed, with a range of 50 miles, it would do just fine with lower costs at every possible angle you look at it. (even if the ppl in the us still trying to drive the biggest and most wastefull car possible)
@@TheNerd I believe those used to exist, and now are probably taken up by the "hybrid" market, though those cars also have a gas motor. ...though I certainly see what you're talking about by implementing a modular battery array that lets you pay for the range you need.
@@TheNerd you can pick up a used Leaf for nothing now
@@samfcch7898 I can't find the specs page (Tesla doesn't release any of this), but the Model 3 has about 4-5% buffer, which is similar to many other EVs.
As a ex Military Aircraft Technician and car enthusiast I hear one question over and over and over again regarding EVs, and that's what happens to the batteries at the end of their life vs impact on the environment, would love to see a video on this with pros and cons.
Excellent informative videos.
Jason, I appreciate and value all of your videos. I have a hard time embracing new tech. You make a good case for it most of the time and I end up liking most of it. Thank you.
Mercedes did this e brake system in 03 to 06. Awesome tech, worked great, owners complained of noise from the pump. It would precharge loudly when you opened the door and people didn't like that. Normal operation, though
What model?
@@Spectrolite1 the 03-06 E class and SL roadster
@@captaincaveman8377 Thanks 👍
A worry is also brake pedal feel, especially in the wet or driving sporty.
Short answer: There is no feel.
Nothing in these modern cars has any feel.
Thanks for keeping me entertained while I'm in the field 😅
Sounds like the cost of auto service is just getting more and more expensive.
How does eliminating oil changes and exhaust repairs make service more expensive?
@@leolego2 nah they break all the time so it will be a lot more in the long run. And for the amount extra that an electric costs you have 10 years of service for a gas car. And they make a really annoying sound and idk how people call those cars silent!
It's a Volkswagen, they ship broken. Source: I own 3. lolll
Totally by accident wink wink.
What service? When the circuit board goes bad, you replace it, only cost 1/2 of the car's remaining value.
He looks like a highschool/college student. And also a father at the same time.
And now i cannot overlook it
More stuff that's going to be expensive to fix when it breaks
That’s AUDI for you
Brake-by-wire has been around for at least 15-20 years, mostly without more problems than conventional brakes. But I guess Audi could screw it up 🤷🏽♂️
Chains break on bicycles. This wear out. You will be surprised at the overall reliability of electrical systems.
Everything is expensive and a pain in the ass now a days, even changing the oil on a prius is annoying
@@rogerwilco1777 it's a lot more expensive to fix electronically controlled devices that its mechanical counterpart like to repair a tesla will cost a lot more than a non ev vehicle
Hi Jason, thanks for another great video!
However, please note that you mixed up the drag coefficient of the E-tron vs the E-tron Sportback. The Sportback has lower drag of 0,26 and as a result a longer range with the same battery pack, vs the regular E-tron's 0,28. Keep up the good work!
You're killin it Jayson.
I think that there should be full mechanical or hydraulic connection after something like 75% of pedal travel. Without that there's too many things that can fail. I would feel unsafe driving older car with pure Brake-By-Wire technology. Some system checking whether or not the others are working can give false positives.
The brake system is called C1, developed by Continental. First customer was Alfa with it's Giulia.
Shiney new electric technology with the possibility that a lot of things can go wrong with it. Its appeal to Alfa engineers is clear!
They also probably decided to install it upside down behind the speedometer where nobody would find it. ;-)
(Nothing but love for Alfa of course :) )
@@nielsonderbeke8507 i have an Giulia for five years now and i like the brakes, don't give you that pedal feel and you don't notice the ABS punching but you get used to it, they brake very very weel, capable of 1,226G's in a full brake! I like it! 👍
@@Brunoperes_88 I wish I could also say that I had a Giulia ! Enjoy yours!
@@nielsonderbeke8507 i enjoy a lot! 😁
Thank you mate! Cheers! 😃
ONCE AGAIN GREAT EXPLANATION,.
GREAT VIDEO
GREAT WORK
KEEP IT UP
Great visuals and animation!
So are stage 3 brake tunes going to be a thing now?
"my car goes full abs with 1mm of pedal travel bruh" hahhahaha
What is a stage "x" tune? Like what does the stage mean?
@@RafaGmod no need for abs with brake by wire. It's a closed loop control system like cruise control.
@@davidshevchuk8885 do you know how ABS works? There's a need for ABS no matter what so that the brakes don't lock when you floor em. ABS is technically a brake by wire safety system on it's own, just significantly less intrusive.
Edit: autocorrected
@@SpadeNya Your last sentence is what I meant.
I am going to preface this by saying it has been a few years since I worked in brakes and I have not kept up with the regulations but I believe the following to still be true...
It should be noted the main barrier to full electronic brakes is not the technology but the regulations (note I am not saying that is a bad thing). A brake system is still required to have hydraulic backups, and they have to perform per regulations in many different scenarios. Fully electronic brake systems have been available for at least 2 decades (I tested a Continental Teves system that was 100% electronic in the early 2000s), but they don't make a lot of sense because you still need that backup system. Since you have to build the backup anyway, you might as well use it to create the "drive by wire" systems we have today which are sort of a hybrid hydraulic/electronic system. A fully electronic brake system would provide extra control of the brakes which would help in all kind of braking situations and especially off braking situations by having complete control over the position of the pads which could help improve fuel economy and reduce brake shudder. Yet until regulations allow all electronic backups that won't happen. Again, I am not sure that is a bad thing. As the old saying goes, the only thing worse than a car that won't start is one that won't stop.
Super interesting to read. Newer airliners are made with Electric Brakes now as opposed to hydraulic brakes. They don't have an hydraulic back up it's purely electrical with actuators pressing on the brake stack. There is usually 8 or more actuator per brake stack (per wheel) depending on the aircraft and there is a bunch of redundancy built in the system.
Hi Scott! You are wrong. ECE R13H allows brake by wire systems without hydraulic backup.
Great job on your animated illustrations!
Dude - I love your video! Keep it up!
i've driven both the alfa giulia base q4 here in canada and the stelvio diesel in italy and while brake by wire (or BBW as i like to call it since there is definitely no confusion with any other acronym) is strange at first, you get used to how to modulate the pedal for how much braking you want.
Jason, any chance you would be willing to do an episode on wheelchair accessible EV's? There are many mini-van conversions available for gasoline vehicles, but I'm curious about your thoughts on availability/pros/cons of an EV.
Hey, I know that road. It took me a while and I kept saying it look familiar but I figured it out. I drive this road almost everyday. It’s always weird to see some back road on a pretty popular UA-cam channel.
Set a custom charge finish level: Press vechicle on the MMI display -> Charging and efficiency -> Charging -> Press charge level indicator , then adjust "Charging target". Valid levels are 50-100 in incriments of 10
Do steering by wire next. Can't remember if you covered it in detail when you test drove the infinity...
Your worst case braking scenario still has the back up valve function perfectly, I can think of worse than that
Was gonna say the same thing.. What if the ecu fails??? That particular valve presumably is electronic also.. Even without ecu fail, like you hinted at, what if that valve fails also...
I would think its also mechanical so if you press the brakes really hard it may open. But a casual braking system can fail as well
Hydraulic brakes can fail as well. I've had a rusted line burst and even with the dual system the brake capacity is very poor if you lose half of the system. Way less left than 50%
You can make a valve that opens naturally when power is lost for example
The backup valve is most likely a "close-when-energized" (aka normally open) type so in most failure modes, it would open and the brakes would function hydraulically.
Coming from the sim racing community I find it odd that BBW exists at all given how badly we wish for a realistic brake feel to get the most out of our driving. In particular the idea that a brake position sensor is used rather than a pressure sensor is baffling, given the short travel of the pedal and people's much better sensitivity to pedal force than pedal displacement. It's just all so backwards...
Love me a good BBW video, well done!
so you're saying that a fake brake with more parts is better.. how exactly?
as he said, to get regen
@@Makex_sweden aaaaaah right because obviously that's impossible to do with just lifting the accelerator and so we need this new contraption that increases engineering and testing costs, bill of materials, failure points, gives less real feel of the vehiche.
SURE. :)
@@emperorSbraz you mean the same thing that basically exists on airplanes and is way more reliable and efficient than shitty hydraulics?
@@emperorSbraz but did you not watch the video? the goal with audi E tron was to make a car where the user dont have to adapt to anything new, they can buy it and it will feel just like any regular gas car but be electric. they are not tesla with innovation. I see your point but they dont want to build a space ship, they wanted a normal car for the user that is electric instead of gas.
Blox117 Airplanes are held to a MUCH higher standard than cars.. I wouldn’t even compare the two. Also it makes a little more sense in an airplane, especially in larger planes. Instead of running 400ft it brake line you run brakes by wire. Everything in a plane is by wire because of the distance between things and the complicity of operating systems. Also how often do planes use their wheel brakes when in operation? Because I can guarantee it’s a whole lot less often than a car does when it’s being driven. Less use, less likely to fail.
imagine being engineers talking about bbw and your boss walks in 😅
Big beautiful weiner-dogs?
Ah...lol
I don’t think anyone really talks about fat women so your boss would just assume you’re talking about break by wire!
barebare You cold 🥶🤣🤣🤣
I think the seat designer has to know a thing or two about bbw.
My Model 3 gives me around 200 miles max and I’ve never needed to supercharge in 1.5 years of ownership. Warm weather months I charge to around 75% a day and during the winter I charge to around 85% a day, and it’s always been more than enough for my daily 90 mile work commute including lunch trips and occasional full throttle fun. In other words, range anxiety isn’t something I ever have. And if I’m in trouble, I have superchargers all over the place. You just need to plan slightly if you know you’re going on a longer trip the next day, just set it to more charge that night. You simply think of your garage as the “gas station”. I’ve charged to 100% maybe twice in 1.5 years.
Can you do a video on electric parking brakes and the systems required to run them?
The W211 has Brake by wire too. System called SBC.
That old????
If I remember, SBC was ditched by Merc due to its unreliability.
@@SkyHighGD yeah this system was presented in 2001.
@@nsbhagwat unfortunately . The were several problems with the hydraulics. (Pump failure)
Mercedes switched away from SBC on most models because the SBC pump has a limited number cycles (brake applications) after which it needs to be replaced to ensure safety. All mechanical devices have a safe life cycle limit. Replacement SBC pumps were hugely expensive and customers were not pleased. Eventually Mercedes put 10 and then 15 and then even longer warranties on the pumps. I had a 2004 E500 that had the SBC pump time-out around 150K Km’s. Mercedes replaced it under extended warranty, but it would have been over $3K otherwise.
Can you make a video on Hyundai's iMT (Manual transmission without a clutch pedal)
So as a failure analysis specialist on these systems produced by Continental under the ATE brand, I can tell you all that this system has a perfectly functioning failsafe mode. The scenarios where the failsafe needs to be engaged are so rare and so specific, my guess would be about 0.3 ppm. You do the maths on that 😉. By the way, fun fact: it builds up 150bar (2175psi) of brake pressure in about 0.3s when performing an automatic emergency stop. Try doing that with a conventional system... A certain plus side of this system: weight reduction and usage of space. There is no more TMC, no more vacuum booster, and no more separate ESC system. It takes up a third of the space of a conventional system and weighs about a third less.
Hey Jason! Can you make a video about regenerative braking? I know you have one but it's old. Requesting you to make another one with latest tech.
So in an attempt to simplify, they made it more complex. Very VAG.
Booka who says it’s about simplifying?
@@rcpmac Right at 3:47 talks about taking OUT some COMPLEXITY. maybe reworded;
"in order to take out some complexity we have made it more complex".
My 18-year-old Prius has brake by wire. The design of the system is similar to the Audi system.
I’ve waiting for this kinda video for so long finally here when I’m having lunch , thanks jason my lunch will be legendary!
Love your episodes. Any way you could filter the low end rumble in your audio? When you listen to your shows like this one when you’re in-car the rumbling from a home theatre subwoofer pretty well overtakes the speech.
The obvious fix is to not record while driving distracted.
Basically the driver will be driving a $10000 computer Simulator, only in real life!😅
10000? more like 90000 hahaha
moe like 'its over 90 000!!!!!'
The crash simulations are so realistic.
*Break app requires update*
Download version 2.0 to continue using breaks.
@@quantumleap4023 Please purchase "Brakes" DLC to stop the vehicle.
Can't imagine how expensive that will be WHEN it fails.
That's the thing about luxury cars, the majority folks who can afford to lease them could care less.
Bought the original e-Tron last year and have been loving it! You can lower the max charge level if you only want to charge to 80% for example, but you're right, you can't use the entire thing as they keep that last bit in reserve. Always wondered if that reserve would activate if you ran the charge the 0% but never tested it. I went with the Audi over the Telsa due to the extra features (HUD, carplay, soft close doors, etc) and the better fit and finish (though Tesla seems to be getting better on that part). It really is a great electric car for those that don't want to lose any of the normal-car luxury items and don't care about advertising that they have a "special" ride (it goes under the radar). Range has never been an issue, but like you said we have another car (PHEV) for the rare long trips we take.
I use the same logic of the range question with the option of 4x4 of a ice vehicle. The majority of the time I don't need all wheel drive. I don't want the weight or extra part failures that a few snow tires can easily solve.
Thumbnail: “Is brake-by-wire safe?”
MB Owners from the 2000s: *sweats in faulty SBC*
In all seriousness, drive-by-wire (accelerators) have been ubiquitous for absolute ages now, just as shift-by-wire and all of these other digitized and computerized systems. On the whole, they tend to work just fine, and still have some form of safety or redundancy to back you up on the off chance something gives. Brake-by-wire is just another stepping stone, and as long as it’s done correctly, it’ll be just as reliable as everything else that’s been “modernized” over the decades
Yes, it's all great and swell on paper, the problem is if it does go wrong, you're in a LOT of trouble (seriously a lot of trouble). And combine that with the famous case of toyota not doing it properly for drive-by-wire, i don't think anyone sane can say "yeah it's 100% safe". So the question is how safe it actually is and how safe does an individual need it to be to be ok with it.
@@fleksimir Nothing can be 100% safe. Not even your simples hydraulic brakes. I think these ...-by-wire systems are pretty safe tho. Especially because there are redundant systems
@@analool7873 Nothing is perfectly safe but there are different grades of something being safe. Well designed electrical circuit can happen to just fail for some unforseen reasons, be it some manufacturing flaw inside a microchip that was causing concentrated heat in a single spot, and on a very hot day it went poof, or badly programmed code that is not impervious to bit flips, or many others. Well designed mechanical contraption can also fail, but it's much less a chance of it suddenly having catastrophic failure then it is for electrical circuits. Mechanical usually give signs something is wrong before they are completely useless. I have education in both electrical and mechanical engineering and for anything that lives depend on, the less electrical and more mechanical, the better.
@@fleksimir Yeah I agree 100%. Dont know if it was a misunderstanding. I wrote that nothing can be 100% failsafe too. And I didnt mean to say, that electrical is always safer than mechanical. I just meant, that I personally think, that these electrical designs are pretty safe. I dont have proper electrical and mechanical education, but I do it as a hobby since im 14. So only 4 Years long :D
If I recall correctly ABS works by electrically releasing pressure from the system, and then re-applying it?(very simplified)
To me this is just reinventing the wheel (or brakes). Just didn’t strike me as a problem that needed a solution.
You don't understand the point of why they are doing these breaks.
It's not to making breaking better on our part, it's making breaking more profitable on their part.
To have a break system be electrical and connected to the computer means it can be fully controlled by the computer.
And that means the breaks are probably connected to a timing system that triggers a service light after a certain amount of wear.
I'm sure it must be something like a tire pressure light.
Exept you have to take your car into the dealer and get all new break pads.
It's pretty sketchy I think.
@freezeme360 he was referring to breaking, not braking. Different stuff LOL
Quantum Leap It’s possible that’s the case but he explains in the video that it is supposedly so the car has more control. In some cases that’s a good thing but at the same time it can also not be. To me electronic throttles were one of the worst updates to modern cars. Now they are doing it with brakes too. Maybe I’m old school but I like to be the one driving, not computers,
That's because you have no idea what you're talking about
It's very important if you want efficient and "natural" feeling regenerative braking.
Great review, although I feel cheated by a lack of whiteboard. Your impression of the e-Tron is spot on, my wife has been driving one for 7 months now and it is a very nice (non-enthusiast) ride. She still has range anxiety, nut has never come close to exceeding its capacity. I find it amusing that due to its smooth and quiet ride she often finds herself well above the speed limit.
As i was typing about what if it fails he explains it. Seems legit.
People scared about range in an EV reminds me when we first started switching to smartphones from our Nokias and realized that this is now something we need to charge at least daily as opposed to something we charge once a week
My nokia n72 used to last 3-4 days, while older phones used to last a week min.
Although if you are smart you buy a cheap Chinese (they're all of course made in china) phone that lasts 3 days. This is after it being a year old and watching about 2 hours of yt a day. My cheap 14 year old 7 seater French car has a 840 mile range as well, if you buy different brands you get better.
Not everyone drives 50 miles a week like you. I drive just over 600 miles a week. Sure I’m on the high end but many people live in rural areas and drive a lot. We also like to take trips. Stopping every 200 miles for a several hour recharge is not acceptable. Range has to be improved for it to become mainstream
Potatoes not only that but you could buy an extra battery and just swap it into the Nokia to instantly get full charge so you didnt have to put it on charge when the battery died
@@Alexander_l322 That was badass, i remember people swapping blackberry phones back when i was in highschool but i couldn't afford another battery i was too poor.
I understand the point of the electric car and i kinda like it, im in my 20’s but i still prefer basic old cars instead
@Xx BigBoss xX of course it’s a choice. Do you want to pollute the planet with your cars emissions or fill landfills with lithium batteries and blame the power companies for the emissions?
@@LogicalQ A couple things to point out. First, climate change poses a significant near-term risk to the planet and our modern society. Not to say that battery disposal isn't an issue, its just that the two issues come in at different orders of magnitude in terms of real world impact.
Second, battery recycling is going to be a thing for these batteries - the components that make them up are too valuable and exist in a battery at concentrations much higher than you'd find in an ore body, and so it's going to make financial sense to figure out how to extract what's in the battery vs. what's in virgin material. Basically it's an entropy question, you've already spent the time and energy concentrating things to make the battery the first time around, might as well piggy back off that effort. Regarding the grid, sure its not perfect clean now, but the pathway to a cleaner grid exists. The pathway to cleaner ICE cars? Not so clear.
@Jason Nguyen the current cleanliness of electric cars is being drastically inflated in hopes that they will eventually be clean. I highly encourage you to look at the data on automotive pollution as compared to total pollution.
The EPA says Electricity production (2018) accounts for 27% of greenhouse gas emissions while Transportation accounts for 28%. Mind that transportation includes cars, trucks, ships, planes, trains ect.
When you consider that mass adoption of electric cars will substantially increase our annual power consumption, napkin math says ~30%, One can assume that greenhouse gas production from electricity will increase proportionally.
Combined with the fact that cars are responsible for less than a 1/4 of annual greenhouse gas emissions, its pretty clear that switching to electric cars isn’t going to prevent climate change.
It would be much easier and more effective to first replace the 394 coal, 1076 Oil and 1793 Natural gas power plants currently operating in the US before junking 273 million vehicles currently registered for use in the US and replace them with EVs.
@@LogicalQ Who says we can't do both at the same time? The grid is (or should be) getting cleaner over time, and electric cars are the most realistic and socially acceptable pathway towards decarbonizing personal transportation (I'm all for all alternatives to cars myself, but I know that isn't a scale-able solution, at least in America).
No one is saying throw away 273 million vehicles tomorrow, but we do need to think about replacing ICE vehicles in the near-term that were going to be replaced anyway. It's going to take a lot of different approaches to solve climate change, no one thing is panacea, but that doesn't mean EVs aren't worth investing in.
@Jason Nguyen - we don’t need to do everything, we need to do what’s effective. Switching to electric cars is not that. Assuming 100% adoption of electric cars, the net reduction to overall US greenhouse gas emissions is going to be in the 10%-15% range. That’s not significant enough to meaningfully effect climate change.
The battery issue is not an order of magnitude less significant. The average Tesla battery is ~1000lbs. We junk over 12 million cars annually. Do you have any idea how much industrial waste will come from processing 6 million tons of dead lithium batteries annually?
Again, I’m not trying to say that we don’t need to do anything. I’m suggesting we target the most significant contributing sources first.
Fixating on improving Power plants, Heavy Industry, agricultural processes, and Cargo Ships, will results in fewer more meaningful targets.
Very cool. Brake by wire with hydraulic fail over seems like a good compromise. Definitely a good car to make EV's familiar to the uninitiated.
While I doubt any manufacturer would do this, I would be interested in seeing the return of the third petal to control regen. It would be like a one-petal driving system, but would allow coasting and have no awkward regen-to-friction braking transition. Maybe its just me, but that might be a neat setup for something like an EV conversion.
Its weird that we think this might not be safe in cars (including me) but aircraft have been using fly by wire for years! I hope I can adjust to this new fangled system!
I think that's gonna be a hard pass for me I was already worried about E throttle. I would like to know when my brakes are getting worn or "fading" not have a constant feel that informs me of nothing.
You dont have to worry that much because those brakes are dimensioned to do all the job but are used maybe 5% of the time. The bigger problem will be that you will throw out the brakes cause they got rusty... my car has an overkill brake system on the front which leads to 120.000km on 1 set of pads and rotors... now imagine it being hybrid...
Electronic throttle has been around for 2.5 decades, as will brake by wire be in a while. Get used to it, it's around to stay. We're not going back to carburetors anytime soon
I thought brake by wire was just a fancy cable braking system.
Old school style?
Handbrakes!
@@miguelangelvizuetmata555 it's real wampa dampa hours *3.3L Ford L-head I4 in our Model A starts chugging as climb a hill*
Check the MMI, you can modify the charge levels based on your travel needs.
yes, but you can not go over 100% of the virtual capacity.
I think the same system was in mercedes w211 and it was named SBC, I disassembly break pump and it looked like this from video. There problem was short live of pump. But breakers was amazing
This is the same case.
I love when car companies take something simple, and effective, then over complicate things, and it becomes less reliable.
Then you should love this car! It takes us back to the late 1800's when the first "motor vehicles" were built... which were powered by electric motors and batteries.
Well, sticking with carburetors isn't going to work out for us, so yeah....
@@thomgt4 my 2006 motorcycle has 4 carbs, works great.....
Exactly!!!
10:50 RIP that animal
F cat
By the time I got the the end I had forgotten that the film was about "Brake by Wire" . It had got back to range anxiety as always with electric cars, which really isnt a real problem to most people who have enough money to spend $70,000 on a shopping car and keep another with decent range for when you actually need to go a bit further afield.
Hi, I really like your videos. Could you please consider using metric units as well? (I know US is raised with imperial units, but honestly they are insanely illogical. Almost everything else American is fully adoptable.) Many science-youtubers are advocating for metric system, that is fantastic. Thanks!
AKA: How to make a brake system super complicated, and expensive to fix!
Brake by wire is probably one of the least complicated technologies featured on this channel. The only appreciable added complexity over a traditional system is a valve, computer, pump, and a few sensors. Additionally, this isn't a new technology; it's been in cars since at least the turn of the century. The Prius used it back in 1997, and continues to use it just like pretty much every other hybrid and BEV vehicle for the past 20 years.
@@Zoltan54 That's why mechanic hate engineer ...
Alfa romeo has an awesome brake by wire. Great feel too
Interesting, as most reviews seemed to indicate the feel was inconsistent and not very good.
Steve Mazza I owed on 17’ 20
Better than the gtr I had before it
Same sytem on Alfa.
Prius has used electronic braking since 1997 and has not had any safety issues, it does have manual override. I have one where the e-pump failed, and still drive it using regen and then hard manual brake to actually stop
"Is it safe"... quite possibly the silliest question have have asked Jason... LoL... just joking.
But yeah... if it has found it's way into a lot of road going cars... I am quite happy that "it is safe".
Great video Jason... as always very interesting
"what if it fails?"
*Cough* C8 Corvette
If the main brakes fail, is the emergency break a button or a handle, like I still have in my CMax?
@@hkad6252 you clearly don't understand what I was saying, but okay.
Yes, pretty ironic timing for this video haha.
@@EngineeringExplained We call that real-world unintended testing.
CrimsonStang I don’t understand either. You mind filling me in?
And if the security valve fails? It's normally never used and as we all know something that is not used will not work for long
The valve is likely “fail-open” like air brakes on trucks, essentially the only way the valve can be closed is when the system is operating, if the system is not operating, then the valve will be open without electrical power, etc.
Edit: I realize air brakes are technically fail-closed, just was trying to give the most common example of an existing and related “fail-safe” technology
@@joshuacurtis5523 Hes saying that if something is not used for long period of time it will not work, the valve has to open, if it sits closed for 10 years it very well could become stuck in that position.
Stink Wink uhh... routine maintenance to cover these fail-safe valves?
@@wiryantirta Well its an audi so its probably a 14 hour job to get to the valve, but sure.
Stink Wink I understand the original commenters concern- I’m saying that anything that is “fail-open” will be open whenever power/control is not applied. If I had to guess, when the car is turned off, the valve will then default to the “fail-open” position (directly connecting the master cylinder to the brakes), and then when the car is started, the car would enable the brake by wire system, thereby providing an actuation every time the car is started/turned off. Yes- it is adding another failure mode, but I would argue that it’s no more or less prone to failure than a traditional brake loop
Next time can you explain about braking period please. Thanks.
We are waiting for battery day break down! Thanks!
Search Sandy Munro - guy, who takes cars apart, rates them. He predicted battery day revelations pretty precisely.
I watched it, it was pretty good. But I wanted to see the math. Thanks for the TI-.
Where did I go wrong with my life ? I can't even afford an electric car for all my driving never mind just for just 'about town'
Most people cant because they're expensive AF.
You don't buy electric to save money. You buy electric to virtue signal and pretend you're woke.
Maybe Tesla will keep their promise and come out with a super cheap car in.... I think it was 3 to 5 years they said
@@michaelallen2501 You could just go for the sneaky torque or the convenience of topping up at home if you're one of those people who have garages or indoor parking spots with chargers, which most people in cities don't have.
Yeah EE is a EV d-rider
How Does Brake-By-Wire Work? It starts by putting your foot on the brake pedal.
Lame
@Amarjit Singh Lame
Outside of hybrids and electric cars, the Alfa Giulia and Stelvio uses a brake-by-wire system developed by Continental Automotive. I believe their braking feel is deemed quite acceptable. The technology has matured and here to say because of the weight and performance benefits even while having safety redundance
Hey Jason, can you talk about the "torch ignition" of the GAZ 24 four cylinder engine, is an interesting example of stratified combustion with a carburetor and OHV 3 valve.
I ask for this because i was trying yo find prechamber gasoline production engines like the Maserati V6
I respectfully disagree. It's an Audi, an owner will know what the hydraulic brakes feel like because something electrical will fail in the brake system.
😂😂😂 good one
Yep and your audi dealer will gladly charge you 1500 to "troubleshoot". And 5 grand to replace the computer.
It's true why do people still spend more money on less reliable cars, there's just too many daft people in this world.
Right now we’re seeing 10 years old Audis and BMW falling in pieces, it’s not just the interiors e.g. actuators have plastic parts degrading with time and stopping them from working after few years and owners are charged thousands for replacing full systems on cars with low residual value, regardless of mileage. Cars are no longer built to last.
complaining about audi and driving us cars that feel and look like lego? r u kidding?
btw just like every single car maker in the early 2000 had problems with electronics. its waaaaay better these days. even companys like mercedes or "the very expensive ones" like bentley had electrical problems from the end of the 90's until the mid 2000's. it just was a period where cars went from "almost everything is mechanical" to "we can do this digit stuff now". its like windows. all versions until windows 2000 were crap. 2000 and xp were the first windows versions that didnt crash just by clicking "start" ;)
Is that emergency override valve automatically tested regularly by the system?
I think that's the case although I'm not sure
The valve is likely "normally open" which means traditional hydraulic braking is always engaged unless the car is on and everything checks out with the computer. If the pump or computer were to fail, the safety valve would no longer be powered and manual braking would occur. Every time you turn off the car, the computer would stop powering the valve and essentially "check" the valve by returning it to emergency mode. Upon startup, the system checks parameters, closes the valve, and the driver remains clueless that they are driving by wire. If the valve were to get mechanically stuck or damaged, it would get stuck open (traditional brakes) from sitting for extended periods of time and warn the driver upon finding a fault at initial startup.
@@Zoltan54 that makes more sense and safer
My concept of fail-safe is functionality in the event of a catastrophic failure. Having one electronic system monitor another electronic system doesn't protect against a catastrophic electrical failure. Rather the primary electronic system ought to power a solenoid to divert fluid from the brake pistons. In the event of a catastrophic electrical failure the solenoid would be de-powered and fluid would flow to the brake pistons. Unless I misunderstood your explanation Audi's system is less than fail safe.
My new bmw i4 is brake by wire and it scares me somewhat, not having a physical linkage from pedal to brakes. But then I realized, that without assist I can’t bring the vehicle to a stop on my own as it is…
Sounds like hydroboost with extra steps
Totally different goal
No.
@@pepeshopping your so smart shut the hell up
@@mercury0214 How does a single word made a person smart?
Brakes are the ONE thing I would not want electronic.
Not fully electronic. Always a mechanical back up and connection for obvious reasons
That and steering
Aircraft Brakes which were hydraulically powered for years are now mostly electric on newer airliners like the A220 and the 787. It's has more redundancy and is less prone to failure than hydraulic brakes. They are electric actuators pressing strait onto the brake stack as oppose to the audi Etron that still has brake fluid.
PixeletSushi you see the airplane ur talking about is meant to FLY, it doesn’t use its wheels mostly except landing and take off...... a CAR on the other hand is meant to use the road and uses its wheel ALWAYS
@@shwilly9186 Yeah but even the failsafe is controlled electronically
I appreciate the video and the explanation on how these systems are supposed to work, but I'm not totally convinced on the success of the failsafe mechanisms. I've had three separate braking issues on two separate hybrid vehicles. Issue one, while slowing down with a steady brake pedal position and pressure applied, the vehicle suddenly slams on the brakes and comes to a rapid stop. There were no vehicles or objects in front of the car and the alerts for the emergency stop did not flash. The car indicated no problems or trouble. Issue two, while slowing, I came to the realization that I was not slowing quickly enough. I applied more pressure to the brake pedal. There was a substantial and measurable delay from the time I increased the brake pressure and the time the vehicle began responding to that request. It was very much a brown shorts moment. Issue three, while driving I needed to come to a stop, I pressed the brake pedal and it was very hard to press. The car did slow, but the stopping distance was very long. With your explanation of the components and how they work, I would describe the problem as such: Applied pedal pressure, regen braking began, computer either did not compute need for extra friction brakes, or the pump failed to run and apply the additional friction brakes. The car did not detect any problems, so the failsafe mechanism did not open the valve to allow direct hydraulic braking. In this particular car, it is a plug-in hybrid, so the overall effect of regenerative braking is not that strong. The must have been hard because the brake force simulator was fully compressed. Whether my explanation is correct or not, hopefully it conveys accurately what was felt from the driver's seat. It was another brown shorts moment. I would love to hear your thoughts on why failsafe mechanisms might not be quite so failsafe.
About you remarks of range and use cases, I live in Lisbon, Portugal and over here there are many Uber drivers that use NIssan Leaf or Renault Zoe cars with 240Km range or less and most of them are happy with their cars and are profitable (and they use essentially old models with less range than the new models of this year). So even with this very specific use case is possible to have "low" range EV with not too much nuisance. But in the end it all depends on the personal feeling.
How would you provide redundancy if you remove the connection to hydraulics?
My blood filtration system is redundant.
Explained at 2:35. There still is a connection that is opened when there is no power supply.
"to you, the oblivious consumer"
Me: 😢
Th Renault Zoe ZE40 I owned had a noticeable transition from regen to the mechanical braking. This was very disconcerting because the force of braking would reduce for a fraction of a second and a couple of times I overshot where I was aiming to stop (only by a foot or two but still not perfect).
How about doing some range/charging rate tests in the middle of winter? Even normal car batteries don't like cold weather as much.
Manufacturer recall involving brake by wire system 2022
Joel Present gm stopped selling 6 model vehicles including the c8 vette because of issues with brake by wire, if what I saw was correct.
Major lawsuit to get audi to fix it circa 2009 a4 tsi engine.
@@benfowler2127 lol well nevermind it started way earlier than I thought 😂
As usual, new generation solutions are not perfect the first time around, and people that buy those first gen quasi experiments, are simply ignorant.
Your daft to buy an Audi in the first place.
Brake is one of the thing i wanted to stay mechanical
I have some automobile knowledge background and I truly believe Brake By Wire system Is a better way to go, mainly because is sending more accurate controlling braking power to each individual wheel base on information that all the electronic components ( Computers etc ) are receiving during the driving conditions ( tire pressure, speed, turning angles, g-force, road condition, amount of passengers , cargo, how level the road is, down or up hill ) and some other variants.
I'm so glad the bright sparks of the automotive world finally decided to fix all those horrific design flaws in the hydraulic brakes cars have been using for over a century. Because why leave a perfected mechanical technology alone when we can make it ten times as complex, ten times as expensive and ten times more likely to fail at random by adding computers?
Now you're thinking!
Thanks, good vid. Starts at 65K I think I wont be driving one.
I fully agree. I’ll keep my eight-year-old paid for Subaru outback.
Is is just me or are cars becoming more expensive every year?
220 miles of range, that will sell like a hot cakes in Australia.
In the camera world, we have 2 types of mechanics that we use to focus. Fly-by-wire and mechanical focus. Guess which one professionals always use? Mechanical. The precision and accuracy in a mechanical set-up gives the operator more control and feedback than an electronic device.
Please make a video about electric steering!
Mercedes SBC would like to have a word with you.
What if the valve malfunctions?
If a valve fails in a conventional braking sytem, then you're in trouble too.
@@klugshicer There used to be a pressure release valve to prevent rear brakes locking up. That could cause spectacular accidents but seems to be unheard of now.
@@klugshicer Right, but conventional braking systems have no series inserted valves.
You would wish you still have traditional manually e brake
@@blackbulletkill6947 At least you have regenerative braking
What trips me up now is driving an ICE car and actually having to use the brake pedal. With one foot driving, it quickly conditions you to forget about the other pedal.
Brilliant technology that emplemented 10years ago in some honda motorcycle CBR1000rr