Though they do it in a really weird way, especially on the ports side. Too wide modules for a single port. They should make them wider and offer combo ports. Now it looks just like wasted space.
You and me both. I came close to buying one on 2021 when my T480 died. (Liquid damage from vaping as it turns out) I wound up getting another T480 so at least I got spare parts but the day I'm looking to replace/upgrade my Laptop I'm looking into framework first! I hope they take a crack at a phone one day too.
@@constantinosschinas4503 well adapters are not the only tgings the framework side modues can dox they can also be things like 2230 SSD expansions. At any rate the most importsnt reason why is 1 slot of 1 full thunderbolt 3 port.
@@thebravegallade731 their port module should be at least 1.5x wide it is now, or even full available length. That is all i am saying. To be able to fit 2x USB 3.0 at least. Also, even with present module, why their USB-C is single?? The slot can easily host 2 of them. If bandwidth was an issue, they could declare shared bandwidth. And that single audio jack, which would at least share a USB/C, is just for laughs. Now, the slots look like a gimmick that favors the product appeal and not the end user. They could even have instead of the silly single slots, full wide, 3x slots that offer greater flexibility and bandwidth. I would support the platform bht is just a gimmick and designers are pretty dumb. They basically need a much better head designer that would simply say cut the crap, where needed. This can be tackled even now, on the 16 model (no wonder they changed that, they understood the issue and left no gap between modules. CORRECTION: THEY DID NOT LMAO). Just release wider modules that fit into current geometry, if they were smart enough to remove any gaps for the modules.
The fact that the fans are put on the module is such a game changer. Laptop dust-cleaning is such a pain to do and when you lived in dusty areas or have pets you basically have to clean the ventilation of the laptop once a year. This just made it basically effortless. I am really rooting for framework.
There's an issue here. Because you can't have a modular coldplate and heatpipes. The CPU is not passively cooled, it have to have a cooling system inside by default, probably extracting hot air on the sides. So, you will have 4 fans in the laptop and 2 modular. Look at the vents on the sides.
Linus did a video on it (he invested in the company). Said they will have options for Intel or AMD, can even put in 6 headphone jacks if you really wanted to. Pretty cool concept, hope they get 3rd party support to really push this thing forward.
I've dreamt of laptops being this upgradeable ever since I started building pcs. Honestly I hope framework changes the industry. This is the future. Reusable parts, upgradeable systems. Reminds me of those futuristic cyberpunk world where tech parts are everywhere and usable.
In the old days, they were. Laptops were classified by "spindles" either 2 or 3, and each spindle could be a floppy drive, CD-ROM, hard drive, modem, and a few adventurous OEMs even experimented with graphics card spindles (nothing fancy by modern standards, we're talking Tseng 2D graphics cards). The laptops were horribly bulky, noisy, slow, and had terrible battery life. PCMCIA and the death of physical media killed the need for spindles. EDIT: Forgot to mention, you could also get battery spindles, and some laptops let you hot-swap the battery while it was running. Pretty useful back in the day when most laptops had sub-3 hr battery life.
Не смогу написать на английском. Проблема модульных ноутбуков в том, что они менее надежны относительно привычной конфигурации. Если вы пользуетесь ноутбуком как портативным устройством, носите его с собой по дому, берете в дорогу, рано или поздно вы столкнетесь с тем что один из модулей даст люфт, где то замкнет и вы потеряете всю систему. Это как если бы вы настольный компьютер постоянно перетаскивали, трогали, наклоняли и всё такое.. рано или поздно система сломается.
i really hope this pushes through, gets traction and be available globally. i remember phoneblocks with the same concept for the modular phone years before, i felt the same enthusiasm here. motorola tried it but was discontinued.
I really, really, really want this modular laptop concept to take off. I also really want the modular concept to dominate the smartphone market as smartphones also need it, maybe even more than laptops.
Bought an 11th gen framework for my wife. It is her daily driver. Absolutely love it, so easy to modify, upgrade, fix. Requires very little knowledge or ability. My gaming laptop needs to be replaced. Its dieing. Will preorder the framework 16. Even if its a bit hotter, louder, and not a powrhouse like alienware, ROG, or predator. Framework proved they can make an upgradable laptop and support it generation over generation. So pumped! Framework is easy recommendation.
@@defnotatroll tbh not worth it for one generation when you'll also need to get ddr5; I'd suggest waiting for next gen ryzen/intel, because Intel could have huge battery life gains (more than ryzen) with the efficiency cores once they optimise them
@@leonro I am waiting for 14th Gen as well with the improved iGPU for my 13". Waiting for DDR5 prices to fall and reviews for the AMD models, plus the new Intel drivers considering 14th gen iGPUs are based on Arc, and could be as powerful as the A380 desktop.
The downside is that the list of countries they ship in is still limited like 2 years later. Outside of Taiwan, Eastern and South East Asian countries would have to resort to 3rd party couriers just to get one of these. And they should also consider cases where there are could be some damage to their device when it reaches their doorstep.
Hi Dave, how are you? First of all I love your videos, it's an inspiration for me that I'm a Brazilian youtuber who still has a small channel. I think this notebook is going to change the market and I'm excited for it! One day I will make a video about this machine haha Take care
MXM modules have existed for video cards for a long while now, but problem is cooling was not included, so you had to stay inside the thermal limits of the cooling system that came with the laptop. I upgraded one of my old machines a few years ago, but I had to stay inside the same generation of video card so I could stay within the cooling limits of my laptop.
MXM seems to be dead since RTX 20xx, the thermal limit wouldn’t matter that much if the next generation of products offered better performance in the same thermal envelope. Like what CPUs do with 15w, 35w, 45w and so on. If MXM died out, and if socketed laptop CPUs died out, there is little hope that a new solution by a single manufacturer would succeed, but at least they are trying
I disagree on the thermal front. Generally, if you wait for a couple generations, the performance per watt and feature set justifies an upgrade to a similar tier gpu so that the GPU works fine with the old system.
This has the potential to be the one and only laptop anyone needs. You could add a second screen and compete with the Asus niche devices. You could spec it out like crazy for a gaming or productivity device. Since it's open source, you could even give it that flashbang RGB lighting. You could add physical dials like some of the higher end creator laptops have. You could put a super high refresh rate screen on, or a touchscreen, or a high resolution screen. I'm watching this device very closely.
It is definitely a win for people into tech. It's a hard sell for someone who does not care about tech and replacing parts of their computer. But it's a definite win for techies.
@Charles Moswane I think if you explain to a non tech person what swapping out parts allows them to do, they'd be into it. My mom just spent thousands of dollars buying a laptop for all the stuff she wants for work. She ended up buying a laptop with an rtx 3070 and an intel i9 12th gen when she didnt need that much power, just the RAM and storage it came with that you could not get with a lower end model. I don't think she even knows you can open a laptop and upgrade the memory/storage. She's far from a tech person, but I bet she'd be interested in buying a base laptop and only adding what she needed if she knew that's an option (I didn't know she was shopping for a laptop otherwise I would have helped her. She just called me to ask for tech support when she couldn't figure out the Windows 11 UI)
@@zakarymcleod1850 The reasons to switch this make sense, well, at least to you and me. A lot of people use a computer as a tool, rather than a statement about who they are (Apple products). So I do see them definitely appreciating an ability to simply swap out one thing to upgrade as opposed to purchasing a completely new tool. The problem starts when you have to know what you need, and also have to know what to replace it with. To be able to make the right decisions there you have to follow tech and/or at least have a fundamental understanding of how computers work... and that makes you a techie (or maybe a tech newbie). Most people are unnecessarily intimidated by tech. That is what will make this a hard sell.
It really feels like the biggest innovation in the laptop space in my lifetime so far. Never seen anything quite like this and just praying that this idea succeeds
@@legionjames1822 im legitable considering spending 300€ more just because i know i can use it for longer and itll make sense in th elong run. everyone who does the math. will end up buying it.
@@legionjames1822 Choosing Framework over Asus for tech enthusiasts like us, who research and live on this stuff is a pretty easy thing, and I'd choose any day over Asus as long as the company sticks to its goals - which they are doing! But in the case of the end consumers - I don't think a lot of people know about Framework and what they do. And they'd definitely choose an Asus or apple over Framework. Framework started as an idea and is still in the phases of being implemented. They still don't have a global outreach to the end consumers, and trust me when that happens - with a good product lineup and serviceability, they can do wonders. One thing I did notice about Framework is how they are keeping everything open-sourced. They want the industry to support change and shift to modularity. Not tie their product line into "You don't have our proprietary stuff? Im sorry - You aren't tied to our ecosystem. You need to get this specific one for it to work perfectly" kind of shit. They want other companies to support the change. And that's what I love.
@@justrandomdmi like it the way you put it as well but its wishful thinking i believe. These big tech manufacturers are into PROPRIETARY techologies. They're not going open source proprietaty products.
Man I'm hoping this turns out well. Assuming it has other features such as a QHD 240hz screen, this could be my next gaming laptop and be a game changer in general.
@@yuvrajsingh099funny you mention that. Due to the upgradeable nature of it. You could simply buy the upgraded display panel for a fraction of the cost to buy a new model
@@heroninja1125 I am thinking of same thing there are a lot of OLED and mini led with variety of features , resolution, 120+ hz. And many with touch are also available and framework motherboard support touch.
@@yuvrajsingh099 They just released a 2.8k 120hz 500 nit display for their smaller framework laptop. So yes, they absolutely are making display upgrades. It will be interesting to see what the framework 16 gets in the future. I'm personally a framework 16 user and I love the display, its accurate its fast and its high enough resolution for pretty much anything you want to throw at it.
I've seen the same modular principle on a smartphone many years ago. Never heard anything about it ever since. Wouldn't be surprise if this will be the same. Just as it happens with every new °gRo0uNdBrEaKinG° battery development. MASSIVE HYPE, then silence forever.
@@AdioAurel You are referring to Google's Project Ara which was a concept that never saw the light of day. The biggest differences between Framework and Google's project Ara are: 1. Google has a habit of dumping their projects on a regular basis which makes them untrustworthy to take chances on, even more untrustworthy than your average startup IMHO. Mainly because even when Google does release products based on their projects AND even if millions of people are using those products they'll still drop them if they decide the tech does not warrant continued investment or if they simply want to change gears. Since Google is so big they know they don't have to worry about pissing off a few million people. 2. Project Ara never saw the light of day as a product you can buy whereas Framework began selling their first modular laptops in 2021 that you can buy on their website today in various configurations from a lowly Chromebook all the way to 11th and 12th Gen Intel CPU's and they are taking pre-orders on the next 13th Gen Intel and AMD Ryzen 7040 versions now. Where Google only teased concepts of modular smartphones, Framework has actually/already released modular laptops. 3. Additionally, Framework has already promised to open up the module market to third party makers which provides the potential safety net of multiple sources for future upgrades even if Framework went out of business. Opening up module development to third party makers has not been done yet so framework will have to be held to that promise as soon as it's economically feasible for them to do so. Obviously they'll need to determine a way to license access to makers that prevents third parties from putting them out of business. 4. There are already people who have created user made modules of their own using 3d printing. It is for all these reasons that I'm strongly considering purchasing a 16-inch version once it's released. Just an FYI
@@AdioAurel Smartphones are too small to be modular, they are also handled more harshly so it harder to make durable modular smartphone. On the other hand, laptops are bigger and its easier to make them modular. Also framework already selling their 13 inch model which is easly upgradable and some parts are modular, not as modular as this 16 inch but 13 inch is already selling and 16 inch is already in production so it will definitely happen.
@@AdioAurel the difference here is that Frameworks has a man named Linus Sebastion on the board and an investor in the company.. Linus Tech Tips/Media Group are the biggest tech platform on UA-cam and hes respected in the industry and the fans trust his opinion.. people dont realize the marketing power Linus can push onto this amazing company
I hope Framework's success incentivizes other innovative modular laptop developers to enter the market, and then force the incumbents to offer a modular line. I've wanted a modular upgradable laptop for years and it's great to see Framework attempt this.
An Issue I can see coming up is if other companies come in with their own modular solution and there is no standard for these parts, it will be all a proprietary mess connector mess. What I hope for instead is AIBs like Asus/Gigabyte/MSI to follow a standard design that Framework has created that other laptop companies can follow suit in. Of course, that would require a lot of time and popularity for Framework to be a dominant laptop brand to get there, but it is possible!
@@cmac8O8 fair point. There should be open standards just like usb is open. But pcie is also open so perhaps it will be up to the component developers to make components available for the various laptop designs.
The MXM standard is basically that, but never really took off and is probably quite rare in laptops nowadays. I remember owning a Asus laptop around 2006 with an Nvidia 7700 Go MXM but changing it was quite expensive. MXM is still used in the embedded systems sector for more commercial or industrial purposes.
This is exciting to see, I really hope Framework and this design really take off & become successful, even another common household name in the pc world. I have a gaming laptop with a rtx 2070, it's still doing well right now, but the idea that I cannot upgrade the gpu or cpu in it has been creeping up in the back of my mind. Thanks for making this video!
I think the next step is for them to build an online used marketplace for their modules. One can pick up legacy parts for cheap while you can recoup some money when you upgrade, plus it's good for the environment by reducing waste. I'm sure it won't be a huge userbase at first so having a centralized, regulated marketplace for used parts would be quite awesome.
@@vadym8713 Of course no one, just thought it will be nice to have a centralized marketplace since the user base will be rather small, at least in the beginning. Easy for everyone to access and trade this way. But I'm sure people will be trading on eBay Reddit etc., when this gains momentum. I look forward to this brand kicking off
@@vadym8713 Well the people that are going to buy your framework parts, are framework device owners, so might as well create it's own marketplace. It'll make the process easier and more trustworthy for consumers.
I am extremely impressed with Framework. I've been a desktop user for some long because of repairability. When it became increasingly apparent that I need a laptop for work, I had to try Framework out and I got the 13" a few months ago. I just love how I have an upgrade path and easy to replace parts. I was able to take advantage of boxing week sales and get the ram, nvme drive, and Windows on the cheap. Really cool how I was able to save money on that. I'm looking forward to the likely touch screen replacement.
I think one of the coolest parts too is you can use an old motherboard/cpu/gpu unit as a seperate compute unit - for like a media pc letting you keep using your slightly dated hardware.
Also the battery as a powerbank, and they are also working on on the screen, so people can reuse them as regular monitors if the change/update the one they have
An idea I just had: Framework can implement dual screen on their devices through the use of these modules (similar to the YogaBook's dual screen implementation without the modularity of course) down the road. And another feature to help more compatibility of those graphics modules with older/thinner Framework devices is to implement Asus mothership/Zenbook pro style cooling where some part of the laptop has a little "hinge/vent" that opens up to allow more airflow. In the case of the mothership it was on the back, while on the Zenbook it was on the keyboard. If Framework does implement those dual screens, they can design hinges that function double as a kickstand, when implemented on the graphics modules and on the keyboard, it can be used to improve ergonomics and maybe even implement mechanical keyboards. The way the devices are right now won't support this obviously, but some sort of attachment mechanism can be incorporated (Maybe???) to facilitate this? Again, these are all wacky concepts, but the bottom line is: Framework has a lot of potential and I hope they continue to listen to the community and innovate like they are doing now, because the path they are on right now could see a revolution in the portable computing space and that's really exciting. The most excited I've been about a product since the Steam Deck, personally.
MXM was pretty popular from 2007 to 2012 and allowed people to upgrade there GPU's, you could even upgrade your CPU, and RAM and Hard drive, and WiFi back then, what a novel concept looking at the crap that passes for laptops now a days.
I think in Linus's video, he also mentioned the possibility of a battery module. It would be incredible to be able to choose between a GPU when I want the power and am near an outlet or throw in a battery module when I'm on the go and can't be near an outlet. I always feel torn between the two styles of laptop when I need to buy one, but with the Framework, if there is a battery module, I can do both.
Indeed I think there was mention that they would provide an enclosure to slap your old battery into for a battery on the go. So you could theoretically have both more GPU *and* more battery plugged into the PD port.
What's crazy is all the possibilities that can be had with this level of modularity, add in the community interest and ingenuity. Framework is really making this the laptop that can be entirely customized to the individual person. I've never been more hype for a laptop.
There is like 2 big points on this: parts provider can increase price anytime and kill the brand open sourcing the hardware bios part is risky, if it works in the long run they could eventually maintain a foothold
the problem is that the space is quite thin, not to mention the challenges of optimising audio output in multiple configurations; I'd love to see it happen though
Start hearing from this brand thanks to your video a LTT. And it's awesome to see how Linus got involved with the invesments and ideas. Hope to see Framework pushing forward with ideas and customization in the furure. Glad to see you back, Dave!
If a new GPU comes out that requires more power than what the laptop can provide, they may able to also put a barrel jack power port on the GPU module or maybe a dedicated USB C port built in to the module dedicated to power the GPU. You might just need a 2nd power adapter which is actually the case for some older gaming laptops and workstations.
Linus: as an investor of the company of the company, I made a bad decision... WHY DIDNT I BLOW MORE MONEY ON THEM?!?!? The fact that they now came out with a 2nd model means they are succeeding. Despite most of the PC sales are still office slave laptops, we the PC community, and the tech enthusiasts are winning over companies insisting that we need to get a new one if we want more performance or usability.
@@TheHammerGuy94 I'd imagine that these laptops would be the dream for conpanies' IT departments as well. Fucked up your screen? Sticky key? Port doesn't work? Let me replace it during your lunch.
I would say the biggest reason I expect this to do well, compared to previous attempts at upgradeable laptop gpu's, is simple. They published the pinout publicly. Literally any third party manufacturer can make parts that will fit on a Framework laptop, because they cared enough to keep the ecosystem open. Not to mention, no matter how well or how poorly it does, there will be an enthusiast community for them - because you can, in theory, make the modular units yourself. When it comes to long term support I've found that the more open and customizeable a device is, the more likely that there will still be a thriving ecosystem years down the line, because everyone pitches in, not just the manufacturer.
I’m loving the modularity. Especially the numpad. As someone who works with assistive technology every day (I.e. the JAWS screen reader), it’s easier to navigate if you have a numpad. The number of laptops with these seems to be few and far between. Knowing you can pick and choose with this is awesome. It goes further than that though. These days way more people are tech savvy than in the past. Imagine if frameworks idea was made into THE standard, such that you could buy the shell, and build your own laptop from scratch… I mean… think about it. Less carbon footprint because you could ship more in a single truck, the consumers get to pick and choose… i mean I don’t really see any downsides here :)
Apart from upgradeability, just being able to repair these things would be such a benefit. I just spent a heck of a long time taking an Asus G751 apart, trying to repair a liquid spill. Way more difficult than it has to be.
That's really what this company seems to be going for, more than anything else. Just ownership over your own hardware. You can fix it yourself if you need to. Customizing it and upgrading it seem like almost ancillary benefits to what their main goals are.
What I’m most excited for is it being easily modular. Like what I would love to do is get a dedicated guy and a battery module. When going to class plug the battery module in and when I get back to my drop plug the gpa in for better performance.
@@HNedel How do you know it will be cheaper? Usually, the enclosure costs $300 or more, I could see how it may be cheaper in the long run but having the option to do either is great.
@@Melchirobin there has NEVER been a mobile CPU or GPU that is cheaper than an equivalent desktop part, at least since I can remember, and i started dabbling in PCs back in the 286 era. Even if you can get a 4090 for this laptop, this will cost at least as much as a 4090 desktop card, is based on the 4080 chip, and will be power limited to 140W or something like that. This will never, ever, in a million years, beat a 350-400W card based on the same chip. Chips just don’t work like that, i don’t need to have seen the models and prices to know this. And you have the premium price for it being portable on top of that.
@@HNedel No thats a fair point I do not expect it to be competitive with with 80 or 90 class cards I meant more along the lines of 50/60 class cards where it does not make sense to buy a $300 enclosure that takes up more space. Also I get you point of a thunderbolt graphics card but having the option is never a bad thing.Its not like they are taking something away by giving this option. Realistically I am not going to get since I'm going into my senior year of college and after that I don't see myself needing a laptop that much after college but being able to choose between more performance or more battery life just sounds so cool to me and being able to easily swap between them is actually groundbreaking IMO.
This reminds me heavily of Project ARA that Google was gonna implement into their phones before it was inevitably scrapped. A device being modular is an incredible idea, glad to see a company get fully behind it.
Framework deserves all of this attention and more, what they are doing is incredible and I hope they will obly continue to improve. Like, this is literally the stuff I wanted for pretty much always. The only reason I didn't buy a laptop in the past is it's lack of upgradeability. And now they are bringing it and it is gorgeous❤️
I’m really excited about being able to repair my next laptop. I will probably go Framework - I would love this modular design with a possible dGPU in 14”, though.
Been a while since I watched a Dave video, but I am glad I did because this is really cool. Thanks again, loved your videos in the past for this exact reason; always covering the newest, portable tech.
that gpu attachment is sick and technically you could do an external gpu set up with the back port for home and keep your on the go gpu in your backpack or something, prolly gonna buy this as my next laptop, my current one is like 5yrs old which i got for uni and its showing its age
Mehn I miss dave2d videos... Hope to see more soon... This can be the next step in the right direction for devices, especially now that we are at a period where innovation in devices are either meh or yeah with a straight face... Can't wait to see how this develop
I think the point that they don't have any other horses in the race is super important. Great video. I have really been interested in getting one, waiting for them to open up to New Zealand.
My Sager gaming laptop in 2014 had an upgradable GPU - it was called MXM. My laptop specifically had 2 MXM slots, I got it with an 880m with the goal to get a second one. Never did it. Because it was stupid expensive. An 880m was like $700, by the time I got rid of the laptop they had only gone down to $500. And at that point, that was halfway to a new laptop that was better in every way, including a better gpu than 2x880m. Upgrading it to any newer MXM card never made sense dollar wise. So call me skeptical. They will be expensive, and it might not make sense to upgrade a gpu
This is for laptops like Viktor Hasselblad in 1959, when he designed the top handheld SLR camera with replaceable film backs, viewfinders and lenses. It set a design pattern that was unbeatable for over half a century.
@@fltfathin Other interchangeable lenses had been done, but it was the quality and non-obsolesence of the whole system that made these ferociously expensive cameras a good investment for many top photographers.
I had been using an Intel MacBook for the longest time, and was considering upgrading to the M2 (or M3) MacBook Pro. But now after seeing what the frameworks laptops are offering, I really would want a 16' framework laptop, with Nobara Linux(a fedora distro), since I do both gaming and software developement. Big fat W for Frameworks!
as soon as they will make keyboard with trackpoint and trackpad with physical buttons at the top I'm buying this thing instantly, it is so cool and has so much potential, but not having these things is absolute deal breaker for me
This does it for me, before i wasnt really interested in a gaming laptop, now you can be sure that you will be able to upgrade your gpu at least once. very awesome indeed.
This reminds me of phonebloks concept from like 2010 and getting HYPED as a middle schooler even though there was no real substance and it just fizzled out. But dang THIS isn’t just some neat concept but possibly an actual working implementation which, though I’m still skeptical and god knows what the pricing will be, could ACTUALLY be a thing. I think the points Dave made about them being a company committed to this kinda stuff and not some alienware offhanded idea is really important and the main reason I’m holding out some hope that this could be a great new option, even if not the next big thing.
Awesome video! I’m also exited for a modular laptop, not just for gaming but also as a response to programmed obsolescence. Let’s hope it works out and other companies follow!
Honestly, if laptop component manufacturers started building a laptop frame and components, this would be the future. Buying a Cherry laptop keyboard and combining it with a Legion Touchpad powered by a Nvidia GPU, AMD CPU and bodied within a shell designed for ultra, gaming style laptop ... This would be the dream.
Smaller System Integrators (SIs) like Maingear (relative to dell, lenovo, asus, acer, etc) already do that, with ODMs like clevo that slightly customize the base design. Of course actual end-user easy to use upgradability/reparability is SO much better.
I don’t even need a laptop but I want to buy one to just support this idea and this company. I really hope they make it far and I can’t wait for what is ahead for them.
Man, when I saw Dave's grey hair, I kind of felt sad about how time flies. I started watching Dave's videos when I was in high school and he was like an elder cousin to me who both liked tech stuff, and now I have been working for three years, and Dave has had grey hair. Sad but much appreciation, love you always.💯
If system power is not enough, you can have alternative/additional power plug on the gpu module. Half of the connector's pins are for power and it could go either way.
But that would only power the GPU, it wouldn't send any power to the CPU and the battery. You'd have to plug in both the gpu module and the type-c power at the same time, a lot of cables. So it's much easier if the thing just had a dedicated power plug, for a charging brick sold seperately. If you don't need it, you don't buy it and just charge through usb-c.
They can figure out GPU modules and keyboard modules, but batteries still require a bunch of fiddling to replace? Bring back removable (not just serviceable) batteries!
Now the critical part of this modular design is reliability of the case. There's a reason, and it's proven reasoning, that Apple's notebooks are so robust with their unibody design. Replaceable parts are very good for environments, but they are very and really does more prone to break/failure over time. Especially with people that travels and treats their device roughly.
Some of us have limited options Dave, because of where we live it is easier to get a gaming laptop than build a new whole rig and have to cater for shipping costs.
I think external modularity would be good for things that can break easily or that can help serve different use cases, like keyboards, cameras, trackpads (like w/ or w/o an integrated LCD for example), or ports modules. But for more expensive things like GPUs, internal modularity is enough and can save space because you don't meed things like slide trays or protective cases.
Seriously the principle behind this laptop is what I was looking for. I still got one year at least with the laptop I am currently using, but I know now which one will be my next one, Hope they deliver a good product. And thanks for this video!
5:40 - I remember back at uni, that those with a gaming laptop where usually thrown out of class, due to the annoying sound their laptop made... Would expect the same in a library...
.. so excited to shoot this video that you jumped right out of bed to tell us ... joking aside, I share your enthusiasm. This laptop for the first time makes sense. No longer do we need to throw away / recycle at our cost a laptop we've spent a good dime on, outdated a year after purchase. Appreciate the vid! Look forward to seeing their 16" and from the look of it, equipped with AMD ~ definitely worth waiting for.
I recently bought Huawei Matebook D15 with Ryzen 5500U with integrated graphics and I specifically chose one with a relatively low-TDP CPU and without a graphics card because whenever I am looking at a used laptop advertised or designed as "gaming" my first thought is that it probably was repaired at some point (even with those less than 3 years old). Don't know if it's ineffective cooling or people buying the cheapest "gaming" laptop and breaking it in some spectacular manner, but I didn't even want to look at those hot heavy plastic boxes (even new I don't want that). It's great that replacing parts in this one is that easy.
Me too. I'm not as deep into gaming as you appear to be with a Legion, but I did buy a Nitro 5 last year that's serving me well for the games I play so it'll be a while for me to on that front. However, I have another laptop that I use for actual work that's getting old (2016 model), so there's that. 😁
The modular system is great. The only questions for me are support-like you said, and ...cost for upgradeable components.. Having soldered and upgraded laptop gpus before, interfacing..but also motherboard chipset compatibility (and bios availability) becomes a factor over time as well. And if this is locked into their system as a proprietary form factor..then again, availability and cost. Looks promising though.
it's been a minute. been busy with work but i just HAD to make a video on this thing
✌
thanks for the info !
Glad you’re back!
We miss you bro
Oh yeah, forgot UA-cam isn't your full time job
you just called my whole kind idiots 😭 I am unsubscribing ÆOUUUUGH
(jk, lol)
I want Framework to succeed so hard. This modular design is exactly what modern tech needs.
Though they do it in a really weird way, especially on the ports side. Too wide modules for a single port. They should make them wider and offer combo ports. Now it looks just like wasted space.
@@constantinosschinas4503 yeah combo ports are definitely something they need to work on.
You and me both. I came close to buying one on 2021 when my T480 died. (Liquid damage from vaping as it turns out) I wound up getting another T480 so at least I got spare parts but the day I'm looking to replace/upgrade my Laptop I'm looking into framework first! I hope they take a crack at a phone one day too.
@@constantinosschinas4503 well adapters are not the only tgings the framework side modues can dox they can also be things like 2230 SSD expansions.
At any rate the most importsnt reason why is 1 slot of 1 full thunderbolt 3 port.
@@thebravegallade731 their port module should be at least 1.5x wide it is now, or even full available length. That is all i am saying. To be able to fit 2x USB 3.0 at least. Also, even with present module, why their USB-C is single?? The slot can easily host 2 of them. If bandwidth was an issue, they could declare shared bandwidth. And that single audio jack, which would at least share a USB/C, is just for laughs. Now, the slots look like a gimmick that favors the product appeal and not the end user. They could even have instead of the silly single slots, full wide, 3x slots that offer greater flexibility and bandwidth. I would support the platform bht is just a gimmick and designers are pretty dumb. They basically need a much better head designer that would simply say cut the crap, where needed. This can be tackled even now, on the 16 model (no wonder they changed that, they understood the issue and left no gap between modules. CORRECTION: THEY DID NOT LMAO). Just release wider modules that fit into current geometry, if they were smart enough to remove any gaps for the modules.
The fact that the fans are put on the module is such a game changer. Laptop dust-cleaning is such a pain to do and when you lived in dusty areas or have pets you basically have to clean the ventilation of the laptop once a year. This just made it basically effortless. I am really rooting for framework.
trying to clean my laptop fans for the first time and zapping it dead is still a traumatic experience for me
@@oliver-shi My condolences :( .. nobody should go thru such a truamatic experience :(
That's a really good point. We moved to southern Portugal two years ago and my gods the dust. I've never had such dirty computers before.
I've repasted my msi gaming laptop twice in the last 3 years. I blame my cats lol. I really like this product.
There's an issue here. Because you can't have a modular coldplate and heatpipes. The CPU is not passively cooled, it have to have a cooling system inside by default, probably extracting hot air on the sides. So, you will have 4 fans in the laptop and 2 modular. Look at the vents on the sides.
Linus did a video on it (he invested in the company). Said they will have options for Intel or AMD, can even put in 6 headphone jacks if you really wanted to. Pretty cool concept, hope they get 3rd party support to really push this thing forward.
Finally a 6 headphone jack device, so I can catch up after all those iphones lacking headphone jacks!
Well probably it would be 5 headphone jacks, you need one of the USB-Cs for charging after all
@@AdaDenali you can charge it to full and then swap the last slot to a jack as well.
@@andrasbesenyei8923 true
@@urulooke That's the real deal
i really hope framework makes it and isnt just a buyout target, or flames out. their entire idea and execution is AMAZING
So long they have managed to stay 2 years in market. Hope they can get another 30 years or so
I am rooting that more of the general public starts to pick up Frameworks. If they hit critical mass, they will make a real change to the field.
Framework really took an extreme W with this one
Copious quantities of W
Not a win. A SUPREME VICTORY.
can't spell Framework without a W
This wont fly anytime soon. DELL, ACER, ASUS, HP & IBM have congress on their pockets for decades. They will bury this company
@@simiolonga they turned a W into a V
I've dreamt of laptops being this upgradeable ever since I started building pcs. Honestly I hope framework changes the industry. This is the future. Reusable parts, upgradeable systems. Reminds me of those futuristic cyberpunk world where tech parts are everywhere and usable.
I just hope they have a profitable business model and people actually buy these things. I'll be getting a 16-inch when they come out for sure.
In the old days, they were. Laptops were classified by "spindles" either 2 or 3, and each spindle could be a floppy drive, CD-ROM, hard drive, modem, and a few adventurous OEMs even experimented with graphics card spindles (nothing fancy by modern standards, we're talking Tseng 2D graphics cards).
The laptops were horribly bulky, noisy, slow, and had terrible battery life. PCMCIA and the death of physical media killed the need for spindles.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, you could also get battery spindles, and some laptops let you hot-swap the battery while it was running. Pretty useful back in the day when most laptops had sub-3 hr battery life.
Dell tried it in the past with area 51 model but failed. Left customers hanging with expansive laptops and no upgrades
Не смогу написать на английском. Проблема модульных ноутбуков в том, что они менее надежны относительно привычной конфигурации. Если вы пользуетесь ноутбуком как портативным устройством, носите его с собой по дому, берете в дорогу, рано или поздно вы столкнетесь с тем что один из модулей даст люфт, где то замкнет и вы потеряете всю систему. Это как если бы вы настольный компьютер постоянно перетаскивали, трогали, наклоняли и всё такое.. рано или поздно система сломается.
Lol “reusable parts” do not equal profit. The tech companies could care less
Now the question of "is Dave sitting or standing?" begins once again
He's levitating
He blew my mind when he stood up in that video. I almost felt cheated on
Schrödinger Dave confirmed.
@@buckduck3624 Relax Dua Lipa.
I think standing
i really hope this pushes through, gets traction and be available globally. i remember phoneblocks with the same concept for the modular phone years before, i felt the same enthusiasm here. motorola tried it but was discontinued.
Check out the fair phone, its not really made for being upgraded but everything is an easily replaced module
I really, really, really want this modular laptop concept to take off. I also really want the modular concept to dominate the smartphone market as smartphones also need it, maybe even more than laptops.
Bought an 11th gen framework for my wife. It is her daily driver. Absolutely love it, so easy to modify, upgrade, fix. Requires very little knowledge or ability.
My gaming laptop needs to be replaced. Its dieing. Will preorder the framework 16. Even if its a bit hotter, louder, and not a powrhouse like alienware, ROG, or predator. Framework proved they can make an upgradable laptop and support it generation over generation.
So pumped!
Framework is easy recommendation.
Has she upgraded it already? If not, how can you say it's so easy to upgrade?
@Sohu changed to 12th gen mobo. Waiting for cooler master case mainboard case to repurpose into a small pc for my kid for 11th gen.
@@security9999 hope you're upgrading it to ryzen once it's available. The battery life gains will be huge
@@defnotatroll tbh not worth it for one generation when you'll also need to get ddr5; I'd suggest waiting for next gen ryzen/intel, because Intel could have huge battery life gains (more than ryzen) with the efficiency cores once they optimise them
@@leonro I am waiting for 14th Gen as well with the improved iGPU for my 13". Waiting for DDR5 prices to fall and reviews for the AMD models, plus the new Intel drivers considering 14th gen iGPUs are based on Arc, and could be as powerful as the A380 desktop.
This is really impressive. For the first time I'm seriously interested in purchasing a Framework laptop.
This is bringing me back to the Thinkpad ultrabay days
@@piyh3962 I fondly remember those days. We used them where I was working. Best keyboards you could get at the time.
The downside is that the list of countries they ship in is still limited like 2 years later. Outside of Taiwan, Eastern and South East Asian countries would have to resort to 3rd party couriers just to get one of these. And they should also consider cases where there are could be some damage to their device when it reaches their doorstep.
Hi Dave, how are you?
First of all I love your videos, it's an inspiration for me that I'm a Brazilian youtuber who still has a small channel.
I think this notebook is going to change the market and I'm excited for it!
One day I will make a video about this machine haha
Take care
MXM modules have existed for video cards for a long while now, but problem is cooling was not included, so you had to stay inside the thermal limits of the cooling system that came with the laptop. I upgraded one of my old machines a few years ago, but I had to stay inside the same generation of video card so I could stay within the cooling limits of my laptop.
MXM seems to be dead since RTX 20xx, the thermal limit wouldn’t matter that much if the next generation of products offered better performance in the same thermal envelope. Like what CPUs do with 15w, 35w, 45w and so on. If MXM died out, and if socketed laptop CPUs died out, there is little hope that a new solution by a single manufacturer would succeed, but at least they are trying
I disagree on the thermal front. Generally, if you wait for a couple generations, the performance per watt and feature set justifies an upgrade to a similar tier gpu so that the GPU works fine with the old system.
This has the potential to be the one and only laptop anyone needs. You could add a second screen and compete with the Asus niche devices. You could spec it out like crazy for a gaming or productivity device. Since it's open source, you could even give it that flashbang RGB lighting. You could add physical dials like some of the higher end creator laptops have. You could put a super high refresh rate screen on, or a touchscreen, or a high resolution screen. I'm watching this device very closely.
It is definitely a win for people into tech. It's a hard sell for someone who does not care about tech and replacing parts of their computer. But it's a definite win for techies.
@Charles Moswane I think if you explain to a non tech person what swapping out parts allows them to do, they'd be into it. My mom just spent thousands of dollars buying a laptop for all the stuff she wants for work. She ended up buying a laptop with an rtx 3070 and an intel i9 12th gen when she didnt need that much power, just the RAM and storage it came with that you could not get with a lower end model. I don't think she even knows you can open a laptop and upgrade the memory/storage. She's far from a tech person, but I bet she'd be interested in buying a base laptop and only adding what she needed if she knew that's an option (I didn't know she was shopping for a laptop otherwise I would have helped her. She just called me to ask for tech support when she couldn't figure out the Windows 11 UI)
@@zakarymcleod1850 The reasons to switch this make sense, well, at least to you and me.
A lot of people use a computer as a tool, rather than a statement about who they are (Apple products). So I do see them definitely appreciating an ability to simply swap out one thing to upgrade as opposed to purchasing a completely new tool. The problem starts when you have to know what you need, and also have to know what to replace it with. To be able to make the right decisions there you have to follow tech and/or at least have a fundamental understanding of how computers work... and that makes you a techie (or maybe a tech newbie).
Most people are unnecessarily intimidated by tech. That is what will make this a hard sell.
@@es-zw3mg I think so too. I just hope that there are enough of us to sustain the company.😇
You can have those on other laptops already.
It really feels like the biggest innovation in the laptop space in my lifetime so far. Never seen anything quite like this and just praying that this idea succeeds
@@kimcastro7034 scammer
Lifetime is a bit of a stretch...
True, and I would add. The people who can should buy this.
lol this already existed for literally decades
what specifically in the biggest innovation? this isn't a new concept lmao
You know when the tech enthusiasts are this excited about your stuff, you have made a bomb product.
Thank you framework for the change.
Its bomb but will it sell? No. Your going to buy a FRAMEWORK over and ASUS? Zero chance
@@legionjames1822 I absolutely would. In fact it'll probably be my next laptop.
@@legionjames1822 im legitable considering spending 300€ more just because i know i can use it for longer and itll make sense in th elong run. everyone who does the math. will end up buying it.
@@legionjames1822 Choosing Framework over Asus for tech enthusiasts like us, who research and live on this stuff is a pretty easy thing, and I'd choose any day over Asus as long as the company sticks to its goals - which they are doing!
But in the case of the end consumers - I don't think a lot of people know about Framework and what they do. And they'd definitely choose an Asus or apple over Framework. Framework started as an idea and is still in the phases of being implemented. They still don't have a global outreach to the end consumers, and trust me when that happens - with a good product lineup and serviceability, they can do wonders.
One thing I did notice about Framework is how they are keeping everything open-sourced. They want the industry to support change and shift to modularity. Not tie their product line into "You don't have our proprietary stuff? Im sorry - You aren't tied to our ecosystem. You need to get this specific one for it to work perfectly" kind of shit. They want other companies to support the change.
And that's what I love.
@@justrandomdmi like it the way you put it as well but its wishful thinking i believe. These big tech manufacturers are into PROPRIETARY techologies. They're not going open source proprietaty products.
Beautifully said! For me, Framework brings out my nostalgia of tinkering with computers in a way that no other company has managed so far
Man I'm hoping this turns out well. Assuming it has other features such as a QHD 240hz screen, this could be my next gaming laptop and be a game changer in general.
It was just confirmed to have a 2560 x 1600 165 hz screen with high brightness and 100% DCI-P3 coverage.
Man with that refresh rate .
If an Oled/mini-led model is released.
I will buy it right way
@@yuvrajsingh099funny you mention that. Due to the upgradeable nature of it. You could simply buy the upgraded display panel for a fraction of the cost to buy a new model
@@heroninja1125 I am thinking of same thing there are a lot of OLED and mini led with variety of features , resolution, 120+ hz.
And many with touch are also available and framework motherboard support touch.
@@yuvrajsingh099 They just released a 2.8k 120hz 500 nit display for their smaller framework laptop. So yes, they absolutely are making display upgrades. It will be interesting to see what the framework 16 gets in the future. I'm personally a framework 16 user and I love the display, its accurate its fast and its high enough resolution for pretty much anything you want to throw at it.
I’ve waited for something like this for years. Can’t wait to see what performance and thermals look like.
I've seen the same modular principle on a smartphone many years ago.
Never heard anything about it ever since.
Wouldn't be surprise if this will be the same. Just as it happens with every new °gRo0uNdBrEaKinG° battery development. MASSIVE HYPE, then silence forever.
@@AdioAurel You are referring to Google's Project Ara which was a concept that never saw the light of day. The biggest differences between Framework and Google's project Ara are:
1. Google has a habit of dumping their projects on a regular basis which makes them untrustworthy to take chances on, even more untrustworthy than your average startup IMHO. Mainly because even when Google does release products based on their projects AND even if millions of people are using those products they'll still drop them if they decide the tech does not warrant continued investment or if they simply want to change gears. Since Google is so big they know they don't have to worry about pissing off a few million people.
2. Project Ara never saw the light of day as a product you can buy whereas Framework began selling their first modular laptops in 2021 that you can buy on their website today in various configurations from a lowly Chromebook all the way to 11th and 12th Gen Intel CPU's and they are taking pre-orders on the next 13th Gen Intel and AMD Ryzen 7040 versions now.
Where Google only teased concepts of modular smartphones, Framework has actually/already released modular laptops.
3. Additionally, Framework has already promised to open up the module market to third party makers which provides the potential safety net of multiple sources for future upgrades even if Framework went out of business. Opening up module development to third party makers has not been done yet so framework will have to be held to that promise as soon as it's economically feasible for them to do so. Obviously they'll need to determine a way to license access to makers that prevents third parties from putting them out of business.
4. There are already people who have created user made modules of their own using 3d printing.
It is for all these reasons that I'm strongly considering purchasing a 16-inch version once it's released.
Just an FYI
@@AdioAurel Smartphones are too small to be modular, they are also handled more harshly so it harder to make durable modular smartphone.
On the other hand, laptops are bigger and its easier to make them modular. Also framework already selling their 13 inch model which is easly upgradable and some parts are modular, not as modular as this 16 inch but 13 inch is already selling and 16 inch is already in production so it will definitely happen.
@@danosk1 there is the Fairphone which is modular offers spare parts. It’s an overpriced niche product.
@@AdioAurel the difference here is that Frameworks has a man named Linus Sebastion on the board and an investor in the company.. Linus Tech Tips/Media Group are the biggest tech platform on UA-cam and hes respected in the industry and the fans trust his opinion.. people dont realize the marketing power Linus can push onto this amazing company
I hope Framework's success incentivizes other innovative modular laptop developers to enter the market, and then force the incumbents to offer a modular line. I've wanted a modular upgradable laptop for years and it's great to see Framework attempt this.
i hope framework sets the standard and then "normal" manufacturers make compactible hardwares just like what happens to chromebooks
An Issue I can see coming up is if other companies come in with their own modular solution and there is no standard for these parts, it will be all a proprietary mess connector mess. What I hope for instead is AIBs like Asus/Gigabyte/MSI to follow a standard design that Framework has created that other laptop companies can follow suit in. Of course, that would require a lot of time and popularity for Framework to be a dominant laptop brand to get there, but it is possible!
@@cmac8O8 fair point. There should be open standards just like usb is open. But pcie is also open so perhaps it will be up to the component developers to make components available for the various laptop designs.
Man I want this to stay a thing. I like how their stuff is reusable too like the GPU module could be used as an external GPU on another system.
The MXM standard is basically that, but never really took off and is probably quite rare in laptops nowadays. I remember owning a Asus laptop around 2006 with an Nvidia 7700 Go MXM but changing it was quite expensive. MXM is still used in the embedded systems sector for more commercial or industrial purposes.
This is exciting to see, I really hope Framework and this design really take off & become successful, even another common household name in the pc world.
I have a gaming laptop with a rtx 2070, it's still doing well right now, but the idea that I cannot upgrade the gpu or cpu in it has been creeping up in the back of my mind.
Thanks for making this video!
I think the next step is for them to build an online used marketplace for their modules. One can pick up legacy parts for cheap while you can recoup some money when you upgrade, plus it's good for the environment by reducing waste. I'm sure it won't be a huge userbase at first so having a centralized, regulated marketplace for used parts would be quite awesome.
I think they already moving at his direction with their marketplace but who is stopping us from selling it as regular PC parts?
@@vadym8713 Of course no one, just thought it will be nice to have a centralized marketplace since the user base will be rather small, at least in the beginning. Easy for everyone to access and trade this way. But I'm sure people will be trading on eBay Reddit etc., when this gains momentum. I look forward to this brand kicking off
Already brought up as a goal of Framework to have a used parts trading/selling part to their store for users.
Framework does have plans for a used marketplace, but in the meantime, the community has already made a subreddit called r/frameworkmarket.
@@vadym8713 Well the people that are going to buy your framework parts, are framework device owners, so might as well create it's own marketplace. It'll make the process easier and more trustworthy for consumers.
I am extremely impressed with Framework. I've been a desktop user for some long because of repairability. When it became increasingly apparent that I need a laptop for work, I had to try Framework out and I got the 13" a few months ago.
I just love how I have an upgrade path and easy to replace parts. I was able to take advantage of boxing week sales and get the ram, nvme drive, and Windows on the cheap. Really cool how I was able to save money on that. I'm looking forward to the likely touch screen replacement.
I think one of the coolest parts too is you can use an old motherboard/cpu/gpu unit as a seperate compute unit - for like a media pc letting you keep using your slightly dated hardware.
Also the battery as a powerbank, and they are also working on on the screen, so people can reuse them as regular monitors if the change/update the one they have
@@Pro720HyperMaster720 oh cool! I didn't know that - that just makes me want one even more!
An idea I just had: Framework can implement dual screen on their devices through the use of these modules (similar to the YogaBook's dual screen implementation without the modularity of course) down the road. And another feature to help more compatibility of those graphics modules with older/thinner Framework devices is to implement Asus mothership/Zenbook pro style cooling where some part of the laptop has a little "hinge/vent" that opens up to allow more airflow. In the case of the mothership it was on the back, while on the Zenbook it was on the keyboard. If Framework does implement those dual screens, they can design hinges that function double as a kickstand, when implemented on the graphics modules and on the keyboard, it can be used to improve ergonomics and maybe even implement mechanical keyboards. The way the devices are right now won't support this obviously, but some sort of attachment mechanism can be incorporated (Maybe???) to facilitate this? Again, these are all wacky concepts, but the bottom line is: Framework has a lot of potential and I hope they continue to listen to the community and innovate like they are doing now, because the path they are on right now could see a revolution in the portable computing space and that's really exciting. The most excited I've been about a product since the Steam Deck, personally.
MXM was pretty popular from 2007 to 2012 and allowed people to upgrade there GPU's, you could even upgrade your CPU, and RAM and Hard drive, and WiFi back then, what a novel concept looking at the crap that passes for laptops now a days.
I think in Linus's video, he also mentioned the possibility of a battery module. It would be incredible to be able to choose between a GPU when I want the power and am near an outlet or throw in a battery module when I'm on the go and can't be near an outlet. I always feel torn between the two styles of laptop when I need to buy one, but with the Framework, if there is a battery module, I can do both.
the good thing about the framework... most of their schematics are open source.
so if Framework dosent offer one, someone will make one.
Indeed I think there was mention that they would provide an enclosure to slap your old battery into for a battery on the go. So you could theoretically have both more GPU *and* more battery plugged into the PD port.
Just today morning I opened this channel and was wondering why Dave hasn't posted any video in a month.
And now here it is 🙂
Thx for watching my stuff!
@@Dave2D Thank YOU Dave for making such great videos 🙌🏻🙌🏻
He got busted by police, while speed driving. He had to wait until someone bail him out.
Of course 1st April
@@steffdia7080 Naw, he would be busted for increasing the speed on FPS, on his gaming laptop, that he would not admit to buying! 😊
What's crazy is all the possibilities that can be had with this level of modularity, add in the community interest and ingenuity. Framework is really making this the laptop that can be entirely customized to the individual person. I've never been more hype for a laptop.
There is like 2 big points on this:
parts provider can increase price anytime and kill the brand
open sourcing the hardware bios part is risky, if it works in the long run they could eventually maintain a foothold
then once your done with the thing. 5-6 years , uoograde everything and put the old one to use as a tiny desk top
Imagine if you could install speakers on the sides if you dont want the numpad, instead of the "spacers"! That would be so sick too.
the problem is that the space is quite thin, not to mention the challenges of optimising audio output in multiple configurations; I'd love to see it happen though
You should watch Linus' hands on with it, I think you'll like the section covering the keyboads surface options
@@leonro Not sure if it is thing enough but the current MEMS speakers are actually quite thin.
I think that would be a little bit more complicated due to a dac being required in addition to wiring, but it sounds doable enough
Rattling might also be an issue
Start hearing from this brand thanks to your video a LTT. And it's awesome to see how Linus got involved with the invesments and ideas. Hope to see Framework pushing forward with ideas and customization in the furure.
Glad to see you back, Dave!
this is a great video. the thumbnail, the editing choices, the voiceover during the alienware commercial, this is just extremely engaging imo :)
Reminder: Protogens go beep boop ^~^
I love the idea my main concern is long term durability when your constantly moving the pieces around with upgrades and readjustments.
How many upgrades do you think you will get for the live of the device ?
@@bandito241 that's the question good sir.
Woah that longing background score fade out the end was amazing. Elevated your already great presentation 🎉
If a new GPU comes out that requires more power than what the laptop can provide, they may able to also put a barrel jack power port on the GPU module or maybe a dedicated USB C port built in to the module dedicated to power the GPU. You might just need a 2nd power adapter which is actually the case for some older gaming laptops and workstations.
Or, the USB-PD standard may get updated, and newer boards could support that future standard
I love framework and I want this company to succeed so bad.
Buy their products if you actually care
Linus: as an investor of the company of the company, I made a bad decision...
WHY DIDNT I BLOW MORE MONEY ON THEM?!?!?
The fact that they now came out with a 2nd model means they are succeeding.
Despite most of the PC sales are still office slave laptops, we the PC community, and the tech enthusiasts are winning over companies insisting that we need to get a new one if we want more performance or usability.
@@TheHammerGuy94 I'd imagine that these laptops would be the dream for conpanies' IT departments as well. Fucked up your screen? Sticky key? Port doesn't work? Let me replace it during your lunch.
I would say the biggest reason I expect this to do well, compared to previous attempts at upgradeable laptop gpu's, is simple.
They published the pinout publicly.
Literally any third party manufacturer can make parts that will fit on a Framework laptop, because they cared enough to keep the ecosystem open. Not to mention, no matter how well or how poorly it does, there will be an enthusiast community for them - because you can, in theory, make the modular units yourself. When it comes to long term support I've found that the more open and customizeable a device is, the more likely that there will still be a thriving ecosystem years down the line, because everyone pitches in, not just the manufacturer.
I’m loving the modularity. Especially the numpad. As someone who works with assistive technology every day (I.e. the JAWS screen reader), it’s easier to navigate if you have a numpad. The number of laptops with these seems to be few and far between. Knowing you can pick and choose with this is awesome. It goes further than that though. These days way more people are tech savvy than in the past. Imagine if frameworks idea was made into THE standard, such that you could buy the shell, and build your own laptop from scratch… I mean… think about it. Less carbon footprint because you could ship more in a single truck, the consumers get to pick and choose… i mean I don’t really see any downsides here :)
Apart from upgradeability, just being able to repair these things would be such a benefit. I just spent a heck of a long time taking an Asus G751 apart, trying to repair a liquid spill. Way more difficult than it has to be.
That's really what this company seems to be going for, more than anything else. Just ownership over your own hardware. You can fix it yourself if you need to. Customizing it and upgrading it seem like almost ancillary benefits to what their main goals are.
What I’m most excited for is it being easily modular. Like what I would love to do is get a dedicated guy and a battery module. When going to class plug the battery module in and when I get back to my drop plug the gpa in for better performance.
That is an amazing idea!
You can buy an external GPU for that, it would be cheaper and more powerful.
@@HNedel How do you know it will be cheaper? Usually, the enclosure costs $300 or more, I could see how it may be cheaper in the long run but having the option to do either is great.
@@Melchirobin there has NEVER been a mobile CPU or GPU that is cheaper than an equivalent desktop part, at least since I can remember, and i started dabbling in PCs back in the 286 era. Even if you can get a 4090 for this laptop, this will cost at least as much as a 4090 desktop card, is based on the 4080 chip, and will be power limited to 140W or something like that. This will never, ever, in a million years, beat a 350-400W card based on the same chip. Chips just don’t work like that, i don’t need to have seen the models and prices to know this. And you have the premium price for it being portable on top of that.
@@HNedel No thats a fair point I do not expect it to be competitive with with 80 or 90 class cards I meant more along the lines of 50/60 class cards where it does not make sense to buy a $300 enclosure that takes up more space.
Also I get you point of a thunderbolt graphics card but having the option is never a bad thing.Its not like they are taking something away by giving this option. Realistically I am not going to get since I'm going into my senior year of college and after that I don't see myself needing a laptop that much after college but being able to choose between more performance or more battery life just sounds so cool to me and being able to easily swap between them is actually groundbreaking IMO.
This reminds me heavily of Project ARA that Google was gonna implement into their phones before it was inevitably scrapped. A device being modular is an incredible idea, glad to see a company get fully behind it.
I hope framework tries to make a phone someday
Framework deserves all of this attention and more, what they are doing is incredible and I hope they will obly continue to improve. Like, this is literally the stuff I wanted for pretty much always. The only reason I didn't buy a laptop in the past is it's lack of upgradeability. And now they are bringing it and it is gorgeous❤️
Let’s keep in touch above ⬆️
Looks like I bought my last traditional laptop last month. I needed one asap so couldn't wait but going forward I'm keeping an eye on Framework.
I’m really excited about being able to repair my next laptop. I will probably go Framework - I would love this modular design with a possible dGPU in 14”, though.
Been a while since I watched a Dave video, but I am glad I did because this is really cool. Thanks again, loved your videos in the past for this exact reason; always covering the newest, portable tech.
that gpu attachment is sick and technically you could do an external gpu set up with the back port for home and keep your on the go gpu in your backpack or something, prolly gonna buy this as my next laptop, my current one is like 5yrs old which i got for uni and its showing its age
If they ship to BG i think this or the 13inch are contenders for my upgrade. My old laptop is circa 2008 :)
Mehn I miss dave2d videos... Hope to see more soon... This can be the next step in the right direction for devices, especially now that we are at a period where innovation in devices are either meh or yeah with a straight face... Can't wait to see how this develop
I think the point that they don't have any other horses in the race is super important. Great video. I have really been interested in getting one, waiting for them to open up to New Zealand.
My Sager gaming laptop in 2014 had an upgradable GPU - it was called MXM. My laptop specifically had 2 MXM slots, I got it with an 880m with the goal to get a second one. Never did it.
Because it was stupid expensive. An 880m was like $700, by the time I got rid of the laptop they had only gone down to $500. And at that point, that was halfway to a new laptop that was better in every way, including a better gpu than 2x880m. Upgrading it to any newer MXM card never made sense dollar wise.
So call me skeptical. They will be expensive, and it might not make sense to upgrade a gpu
This is for laptops like Viktor Hasselblad in 1959, when he designed the top handheld SLR camera with replaceable film backs, viewfinders and lenses. It set a design pattern that was unbeatable for over half a century.
waait so lenses wasn't replaceable back then? that sounds dumb if we heard it nowadays
@@fltfathin Other interchangeable lenses had been done, but it was the quality and non-obsolesence of the whole system that made these ferociously expensive cameras a good investment for many top photographers.
I love the off the cuff style of this video. Very genuine
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I had been using an Intel MacBook for the longest time, and was considering upgrading to the M2 (or M3) MacBook Pro. But now after seeing what the frameworks laptops are offering, I really would want a 16' framework laptop, with Nobara Linux(a fedora distro), since I do both gaming and software developement. Big fat W for Frameworks!
as soon as they will make keyboard with trackpoint and trackpad with physical buttons at the top I'm buying this thing instantly, it is so cool and has so much potential, but not having these things is absolute deal breaker for me
Great thing is that laptop actually looks cool, design is nice.
This does it for me, before i wasnt really interested in a gaming laptop, now you can be sure that you will be able to upgrade your gpu at least once. very awesome indeed.
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This reminds me of phonebloks concept from like 2010 and getting HYPED as a middle schooler even though there was no real substance and it just fizzled out. But dang THIS isn’t just some neat concept but possibly an actual working implementation which, though I’m still skeptical and god knows what the pricing will be, could ACTUALLY be a thing. I think the points Dave made about them being a company committed to this kinda stuff and not some alienware offhanded idea is really important and the main reason I’m holding out some hope that this could be a great new option, even if not the next big thing.
Oh holy shit the site has preorder pricing and it is looking VERY interesting
Dave! You've been missed! I really do appreciate your unique perspective and non-bs approach. Thanks!
Dave, I really loved that Transition effect you did there, great video!
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Awesome video! I’m also exited for a modular laptop, not just for gaming but also as a response to programmed obsolescence. Let’s hope it works out and other companies follow!
Honestly, if laptop component manufacturers started building a laptop frame and components, this would be the future. Buying a Cherry laptop keyboard and combining it with a Legion Touchpad powered by a Nvidia GPU, AMD CPU and bodied within a shell designed for ultra, gaming style laptop ... This would be the dream.
Smaller System Integrators (SIs) like Maingear (relative to dell, lenovo, asus, acer, etc) already do that, with ODMs like clevo that slightly customize the base design. Of course actual end-user easy to use upgradability/reparability is SO much better.
I don’t even need a laptop but I want to buy one to just support this idea and this company. I really hope they make it far and I can’t wait for what is ahead for them.
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it's impressive what they have done so far. i'm honestly considering this as my next laptop -- pending availability from where i'm from.
if they come out with enough models, they might branch out and find more international partners so we don't have to deal with international shipping.
5:45 my favourite edit in 2023, you got me ROLLIN after this. :D
that profile shot was awesome!!! feels like some high-end product video!!! as simple and impressive by dave!!
Man, when I saw Dave's grey hair, I kind of felt sad about how time flies. I started watching Dave's videos when I was in high school and he was like an elder cousin to me who both liked tech stuff, and now I have been working for three years, and Dave has had grey hair. Sad but much appreciation, love you always.💯
If system power is not enough, you can have alternative/additional power plug on the gpu module. Half of the connector's pins are for power and it could go either way.
But that would only power the GPU, it wouldn't send any power to the CPU and the battery. You'd have to plug in both the gpu module and the type-c power at the same time, a lot of cables. So it's much easier if the thing just had a dedicated power plug, for a charging brick sold seperately. If you don't need it, you don't buy it and just charge through usb-c.
They can figure out GPU modules and keyboard modules, but batteries still require a bunch of fiddling to replace? Bring back removable (not just serviceable) batteries!
2 battery for mobility, 4090 for home "produCTivity".
Their batteries can still be replaced easily.
Thank god you're back mate! You had me worried with no posts for so long. Hope all is well
IIRC the Barrel plug is on the GPU unit itself and the power brick is an additonal add-on purchase.
Framework laptop is a very good project.
Up close and personal today are we
I hope this company becomes wildly successful and is able to lower prices because of it and doesn’t get greedy
I was getting a bit worried that you hadn't posted a video in a long time! Glad to see you back. I really hope the frame works 16-in laptop does well!
Hey dude, you're one of the very few UA-camrs who is SINCERE. Thank you.
Now the critical part of this modular design is reliability of the case. There's a reason, and it's proven reasoning, that Apple's notebooks are so robust with their unibody design. Replaceable parts are very good for environments, but they are very and really does more prone to break/failure over time. Especially with people that travels and treats their device roughly.
I'm the idiot that buys a gaming laptop
🤔
I’m the idiot that’s been plotting to buy one 😂
We all are. Look at us laptop chads
Some of us have limited options Dave, because of where we live it is easier to get a gaming laptop than build a new whole rig and have to cater for shipping costs.
am i the only one who loves this camera position. this so personal and up close to dave. please keep it dave
Please do everything with this style of cinematography, looks way better on you even with this zoom 0:30
I think external modularity would be good for things that can break easily or that can help serve different use cases, like keyboards, cameras, trackpads (like w/ or w/o an integrated LCD for example), or ports modules. But for more expensive things like GPUs, internal modularity is enough and can save space because you don't meed things like slide trays or protective cases.
The customisability is a game changer. Very excited for what's to come
Seriously the principle behind this laptop is what I was looking for. I still got one year at least with the laptop I am currently using, but I know now which one will be my next one, Hope they deliver a good product. And thanks for this video!
Once my current laptop needs replaced in a few years, I know where I'll be buying my next one from.
5:40 - I remember back at uni, that those with a gaming laptop where usually thrown out of class, due to the annoying sound their laptop made...
Would expect the same in a library...
I already have a gaming laptop,
but when it goes obsolete I'll definitely look into upgrading to this
I can't wait for them to succeed and long last! And also to ship & support in more parts of the world!
.. so excited to shoot this video that you jumped right out of bed to tell us ... joking aside, I share your enthusiasm. This laptop for the first time makes sense. No longer do we need to throw away / recycle at our cost a laptop we've spent a good dime on, outdated a year after purchase. Appreciate the vid! Look forward to seeing their 16" and from the look of it, equipped with AMD ~ definitely worth waiting for.
Definitely excited. I hope preorders go up soon because I'm in.
I recently bought Huawei Matebook D15 with Ryzen 5500U with integrated graphics and I specifically chose one with a relatively low-TDP CPU and without a graphics card because whenever I am looking at a used laptop advertised or designed as "gaming" my first thought is that it probably was repaired at some point (even with those less than 3 years old). Don't know if it's ineffective cooling or people buying the cheapest "gaming" laptop and breaking it in some spectacular manner, but I didn't even want to look at those hot heavy plastic boxes (even new I don't want that). It's great that replacing parts in this one is that easy.
Framework will definitely be the company I look at first when the time comes to replace my Legion 5.
Me too. I'm not as deep into gaming as you appear to be with a Legion, but I did buy a Nitro 5 last year that's serving me well for the games I play so it'll be a while for me to on that front. However, I have another laptop that I use for actual work that's getting old (2016 model), so there's that. 😁
I have been waiting for this video since the FW presentation!!
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I hope frameworks become the de facto laptop standard . And love the support for linux added as well.
The modular system is great. The only questions for me are support-like you said, and ...cost for upgradeable components.. Having soldered and upgraded laptop gpus before, interfacing..but also motherboard chipset compatibility (and bios availability) becomes a factor over time as well. And if this is locked into their system as a proprietary form factor..then again, availability and cost. Looks promising though.
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You can place the numpad also on the left, not just on the right.