CORRECTION: You can swap the Expansion Bay Modules (like the discrete GPU) without removing the Mid Plate, so it's actually relatively quick. For example, The Verge did it in around 2 minutes here: ua-cam.com/video/-IYIuJ_CLPM/v-deo.html I mentioned @2:10 that this was an engineering sample. For clarity, it's a DVT2 pre-production engineering sample, so there are parts of the mechanical fit and finish that are not final (in the process of being tuned before final release). This specific unit wasn't a review sample, but just a random internal development unit. As for availability, the Framework Laptop 16 is still in the pre-order phase. If you want to check it out, visit frame.work/laptop-16
They probably be bought out by Dell, and that is how they survive. Honestly, the product is amazing but the actual business plan is lunacy. It won't survive without drastic changes to it imo... _tldr bit :_ I hope it does, it's a great thing to own if you are a collector. Just I see the specs versus the actual cost of ownership - then I think supply is limited, the market just isn't large enough without investment and changes at the top strategically. They will sell though because the products are good, though they won't profit sufficiently to continue past 2-3 years. I highly recommend them as an IPO share in future though!
@@04_ruizatanedy24 Lol there's no such thing, Framework itself is the closest we'll ever get to a good company. The moment they get bought their products will start getting progressively worse and worse.
Yeah…they will most likely be bought out strictly for sourcing their parts. Sure, the parts are modular but those parts are also proprietary. Unless they have an endless supply for each and every skew, I can see them looking for partnerships.
only idiots think this, and idiot wannabe startup companies try this, they all evaporate into nothing after burning shitloads of money, because they have no clue, whatsoever, about anything, at all, just like the ordinary customer.
@@AdarshMeher-xe9dl you can only do that at scale and by using predatory business practices like virtually every other company, if you care about modularity and repairability/environment, this is the price it comes with (and consider the fact that you'll actually be able to upgrade the laptop and save yourself money in the long term, instead of having to buy a whole new computer)
As a not-industrial-designer, I am very impressed with how they made the laptop, especially the keyboard and all, so easy to tinker with. I can only imagine how you feel. I am REALLY rooting for them.
@@fajarkurniawan9434 I worry that if they get bought, then this dream would die a death by million cuts. other companies dont really want a modular concept to succeed as that would reduce what they can sell. the first to go would be the time for which parts are available. the new company would also make the new models slightly different so that parts can be interchanged. hence you modular laptop only gets replacement parts. there are too many things that a new owner can screw up. Its better they remain independent.
@@fajarkurniawan9434As someone who subscribed to their newsletter, I can tell you that more people are buying than they expected. Turns out that people were absolutely ravenous for a 16 inch AMD notebook from them.
The amount of planning required to make something like this and keep it relevant 5 years down the line is genius! I really do hope the company succeeds
@@IdaReggaeMonframework has a 3 year track record of nothing but success, bitch. On top of that, they sold out of preorders for the 16" version in like 12 minutes. The demand exceeded their expectations.
Fans are usually the first thing to go on a laptop, and on some (thinkpad T30s) they are buried in the deepest section of the laptop. To be able to install the fan through a "slot" on the back of the laptop or to be able to just pull out the fan & clean it with a hairdryer is UNREAL!! Nice work!!
As someone that worked in r&d for ten years+, pogo pins life span is something to keep an eye at. Their springs tend to fail after a while and you start getting bad contact. Hopefully these are also replaceable if needed.
My laptop from around 12 years ago was somewhat modular: RAM, CPU, GPU, HDD, wireless were all removable as well as the battery. It was a tremendous shame watching laptops get more and more "integrated", especially in the ultrabook class. Nice to see Framework not only reversing this but taking it a few steps further!
@@oliviamayumi imagine you're a company, you need money to stay alive and grow to push more money in R&D. I'm pretty sure modular is a great thing but business wise, heck no.
I freaking love Framework. I really want them to succeed because there is nothing else quite like what they are doing. Props to the designers and the team because engineering this stuff could not have been easy, plus making it not cost more than people would be willing to pay!
No i do not. The basic, non gimmickal modularity is the port modules, and they have morronic dimensions. Cannot fit double ports, cannot have double modules that could easily fit them.
@@constantinosschinas4503 the rest of the modularity is gimmicky? What laptop manufacturers will allow you to buy a laptop without any windows, ram, storage, etc so you can buy the parts yourself for half the cost?
@@meatisomalley The project needed better modular architecture/design choices in the early phases. Now, too much modularity, half baked, with flimpsy result and... expensive.
@@constantinosschinas4503 Maybe. Most consumers seem very happy with the product, at least as far as the target audience who purchased the laptop goes. I think it's a cool concept and if the cost of manufacturing can decrease a little bit over the years it's an easy purchase for me.
@@constantinosschinas4503so aside from the extreme vagueness, the notion that it is flimsy and expensive is plain wrong. I have personally been using a framework 16 for a couple of weeks now, and it has a better build then almost every laptop that people claim it competes against. And expensive? Relative to what? Cheap gaming laptops made out of plastic? Can you at least be more specific if you want to cope and mald all day in a UA-cam comment section.
Dang, just the way that keyboard layout looks says that this labtop is made with love. A full backspace key and shift keys! A dedicated FN button! Even a number pad!!! Or ig macro pad, im guessing u can customize. Wow, the magnetic everything is so cool!!! U can rly customize this computer! So so so cool!!!
@@Showz333 well I hate hurting my wrist by constantly bottoming out, and hate the mushiness. Noone who is sane would like a mushy, scratchy, hammer feeling keyboard
I do think over time, if they're successful, the build of the overall shell can easily become more rigid and solid feeling. This approach, they're pioneering in this space. They want to get it marketable somewhat on a price to upgradeability tradeoff. I think if they get more and more people to go for it, they'll have more leeway on machining to really improve the experience further.
I think this may not happen because framework says they wanna stick to their 70% recycled aluminum composite or whatever their using for the laptop shell.
they are still a very young company and there is much room to grow and improve. I really hope they succeed. Sadly I bought a overpriced macbook pro m1 16 inch but my next laptop in 5-7 years will probably be a framework.
I think those bottom spacers (next to the trackpad) single handedly make the laptop look much cheaper than it is, it would be nice to see some alternatives there...
The fans being easily swappable is really cool. Performance oriented laptops put a lot of strain on the fans and they're pretty much guaranteed to fail after a while. I recently had to replace fans on my laptop and it was a major pain the ass, taking off the ENTIRE heat sink just to get the fans off.
Seriously. Years ago I helped a fellow college student fix her laptop's overheating issue (it ended up being a wad of horse hair in the fan, go figure - she was in the Ranch Management program), and I basically had to break that thing down into its component pieces to get to the fan. The motherboard had to come out, the screen had to come off, and by the end it wasn't laptop-shaped anymore, just a pile of parts.
They (or someone) could release a new fan module when Lenovo's patent on the owl-wing fan expires. PS. If anyone can find that patent, post the patent number here (not the URL as outgoing hyperlinks don't seem to work on many channels) please. I'd like to 3D print them for older, pre-owlwing ThinkPads.
I switched my primary system to Mac but I am in the market for a "primary" gaming system and a Framework laptop really appeals to me because of the modularity. Maybe when I have laptop money again, I'll give Framework a shot. I looked into the other gaming laptops but they are incredibly expensive and like you said, you are stuck with whatever components are in the system.
hopefully framework comes to other countries soon. i want this to be my next laptop. just the convenience of being able to change the placement of stuff or swap ports anytime is game changing. and being able to upgrade it down the line is also nice. dave didnt mention everything about the laptop but he did point out some new things which other reviewers haven't.
I watched one of your videos in the past about the viability of this 16 inch and it kinda made a whole lots of sense. Considering that upgrading the laptop (at the given prices of the components) would eventually be the same or equal to a whole new machine, the only consolation would be that you’re avoiding ewaste (and its fully modular and customizable to your needs) if you keep buying a whole new laptop every couple of years. I really want Framework to succeed and eventually lower the price down of upgrade components but until that time its a hard proposition despite the upgradability and modularity.
They should make a tough version that is thicker to have that rigidity but uses same replaceable components. That would be a great alternative for those who don't really need it that thin.
that was a really interesting point he made about the rigidity. people's perception plays a lot into how they value things. Your suggestion would be a really great idea at least in terms of a poster boy product that gives you everything (while being a bit thicker to improve the rigidity issue)
@@BahhBahhBrownSheepThin and lights are great what are you talking about? For my workloads having a light and thin laptop for field work is much better than a 5+ pound machine that does the same thing. I understand why thicker laptops are desired and the benefits they have but to say that nobody needs a thin laptop is just crazy talk
@@jeevejavari8461 so you’re going to tell me that losing 2-4 millimeters on a laptop is beneficial to you? How? If it’s weight and half a pound affects you, I’d say you’re the problem because that should not be noticeable to you, nor should you be holding your laptop when using it anyway. If it’s because it’s taking space in your bag, how? It’s literally only 2-4 millimeters and that makes almost no real world difference but in terms of internal design it’s monumental. The amount of quality and features people will happily throw away to shave a couple millimeters off a frame is ridiculous. Having an actual structural frame, slots opposed to soldered components, and batteries that don’t suck ass are wAAAY more important than this thin BS. Just look at Apple, they finally got this through their thick skulls recently and the new Pro models are a bit thicker, which gave us bigger batteries, better coolers, a keyboard that doesn’t feel like you’re tapping on a table, and real ports again like an SD reader and HDMI. I’ve not seen one person complain about them being heavy or big. If other companies stopped chasing this old trend we’d all be better for it. ALL of us.
The other thing you forgot to mention with buying 2 laptops vs upgrading a component is the amount of waste. Upgrading the laptop's GPU component will always be less wasteful than buying another laptop. This and user reparability are the main reasons I want this laptop to succeed.
I beg to differ, when you buy a new laptop, your old one is either going to another family member or friend or sold to another person or shop, buying a new module on the other hand, you would probably throw away the previous module due to its redundancy.
@@kevindavid732yes sell broken parts to refurbish or scrap and any old parts can be sold yes but repairable is always better than replacing everything when a screen is cracked or broken or motherboard is broken you still get to keep a lot of unbroken stuff just feels good...
@@kevindavid732actually, framework specifically has the marketplace for allowing you to sell the module. Not to mention for the mainboards you can repurpose an old mainboard into a desktop with the cooler master case and give it to a family member. There is nothing that a normal laptop does that a framework can't.
@@kevindavid732 which is actually inline with the philosophy behind these kinds of products... Only replace stuff when you need to. The G14 should serve you for a few years yet.
Great video. The engineering that went into the Framework laptops is top shelf. There will have to be some compromises between rigidity and customization & upgradability. Still patiently awaiting for mine to arrive in Q1 '24.
ya well if you expect me to subscribe to your channel after watching this video, you are on the right track. The thing i like about this video, is you get right to the point without a lot of extra nonsense. I wish more tech videos would be like this. and now..im interested more than ever in the framework
I knew Dave would come around to this device! Glad to see a company be so pro consumer! We need more companies to be more repairable! My preorder is waiting in batch 1!
I think people also forget that you can also swap out the chassis if it gets too scuffed up. Design and aesthetics are also bound to improve as the company grows without you throwing away working parts.I really wish this company does well and gets a significant portion of the laptop market.
As a tech enthusiast I'd love to purchase a laptop like that. It's not a finished, polished by time and several generations product as for right now, but me spending money on it hopefully will promote modular tech. Good for nature, great for people, love the idea of it. But I have concerns as for accessibility of parts (that's obviously crucial) and this product being represent worldwide (not all of us tech fans live in North America).
Thank goodness they did not focus on speed changes of parts and instead focused on the ability to change those parts at all while keeping quality and reliability. Good for them.
At about 11:31 where the screen is propped up perpendicular to the camera, it's really clear that it's not straight. Maybe he just managed to close one hinge slightly more than the other, but it could be that the thin aluminum has bent slightly. Hopefully that doesn't turn into a large problem with these laptops.
the fact that this laptop is suitable for both gaming and office work with just a single gpu swap is insane. My gaming laptop lasts around 6.5h before it dies in the office, but now it's a whole new level
well, if you can plug it in for office work, you don't need to swap at all! For me, it is more like the prospect of upgrade later down the line that thrills me.
Seeing countless well-wishes for Framework's success here and well .. everywhere. That alone is a strong indication it will be. Last years 16 pre-order launch crashed the servers. Glowing reviews, thanks, and kudos are raining down. We've been pining for something like this for ages. Someone finally did it and it has a name. It's superbly engineered and they're well-partnered and financed. Their success, longeveity, and possible domination feels all but assured. WE will make it so. The disruption is real, and everyone will be playing catch up. Dave makes a good point about the _apparent_ flimsiness to the casual user. I don't know actual sales volume, but those of us who know better are snapping them up like like hungry wolves. I believe that is establishing a reputation which the masses will get wind of, alleviating any concerns about "flimsy" feel.
At first unboxing I was slightly skeptical about feel. Now that it's together and I'm just using it... the feel of use trades blows with my previous laptop, the Zephyrus M16 (technically took a downgrade on specs to get the framework)
This laptop design is amazing; we need standardize the size and the interface of modular laptop that free sharing across multiple manufacturers just like atx, matx, itx. then we can build our own laptop from buying different manufacturer’s components.
It would be really satisfying to me to own a framework laptop. I just love the whole idea about repairability and upgradability. One reason why I was a fan of ThinkPads in the first place.
@@jeremyroe Yeah, but the 90% should have an option to get it repaired from the repair shop. It doesn't have to be modular. A right to repair is a must when you own a thing and spend a lot of money on it.
A few years ago I had a lenovo Y500 with swappable modules. Obviously not the same level of customizability and upgradeability, but allowed you to get different modules suitable to your use case
Coming from an older MSI GS65 Stealth, like the first model, I think I can live with the flex and lack of rigidity because the MSI unfortunately had that issue as well. Over time it's not a big issue. What IS an issue is the components slowly failing one by one on this thing that constitute the need to replace it (in the computer's defense it is about 5+ years old now) whereas with a Framework I could fairly easily replace the failing modules. Also just the idea of once you upgrade something like the logic board on this thing you can throw the old one into a case and make it like a media PC or something and that's pretty wild to me.
I wouldn't mind a thicker and more rigid chassis in it. Because they are trying to make a laptop as upgradeable as a desktop. Question is: Can I get a thicker and tougher spare frame/chassis in the future? Will there be aftermarket spare parts?
You don't need a thicker frame. The back module (which contains the cooling system) can be as thick as needed. It doesn't necessarily have to have the same thickness as the laptop frame, because it can protrude both down and back. But, it is up to Framework to make different back modules.
My dream would be to have a modular laptop of smaller handheld size like a GPD Win but with swappable motherboards. Or swap keyboards for a game pad that takes up more vertical room and the replaceable I/O cards in the back.
I never thought I'd see the day I could convert a laptop to having a left-hand-side numpad in under a minute. I can enjoy all my deranged spreadsheet fantasies now.
From experience stay at Nvidia side for engineering even though I had same thoughts to get this for my interior designer sister. Engineering software is shit honestly and even with Nvidia is bad
@@firasrabaia Can confirm, started in aerospace engineering before switching to computer science. For both I recommend Nvidia so you can run things locally and you’re not having to spend 70% of your study time in a computer lab. Edit - Not because Nvidia is faster or anything like that, AMD makes very respectable stuff, it’s just that a good amount of engineering software and AI stuff in CS won’t work without CUDA.
You honestly don’t need a laptop for that since labs and anything by else you need will be supplied via a university container van you can always remote in. TBH comments like “I’m getting this for [insert whatever engineering or CS]” are over done in the framework subreddit. Guarantee you that you can get by with just a Chromebook, there’s no need for you to state that you’ll be getting it for this as some means to further justify your expense (which I remind you this laptop isn’t cheap even if you plan to get your own memory and storage which frameworks pricing accounted for)
Honestly depends on what kind of engineering you do. For normal non ML programming, go for a macbook. For anything with AI or machine or building design stuff like Autocad and solidworks, go for an Nvidia windows machine.
When you pay the premium for framework, it's not about bang for the buck where you could buy 2 laptops instead of one framework + one upgrade. It's about sending a message that you're done with disposable tech, and you'll vote with your wallet even if it's a bit more. My wallet has no vote, so I'm gonna keep watching craigslist for something a few years older. 😅
It's sending a message that you can afford to waste money. Honestly, a laptop I bought in 2013 was passed down to my mother and she used it until the display failed. Now my brother uses it hooked to a TV for media. That's how you use tech if you want to be environmentally friendly. If you buy this laptop and next year change the CPU and throw out the old one, and in two years change the GPU and throw out the old one, then you're not friendly at all. It's just a self-pat on the back.
@@Dranzell Am myself using a 13 year old desktop (with a minor used GPU upgrade). But laptops tend to die quicker if they're not just used as desktop replacements. Especially cheaper ones. Ideally you'll use one longer, but eventually something dies, or imagine, eventually you need more performance - then you do have a more environmentally friendly way to handle this (especially since you can keep using the old motherboard, if it didn't die somewhere along the way). I just had to replace my 4 year old laptops motherboard just to keep it working, and it was NOT worth it financially, but I didn't feel like buying anything new for the interim to a framework. With a framework, I didn't need to consider if it's worth it, I'd just do it and get an upgrade along with it.
@@Dranzell You're overall right, but laptops living for 10 years is the exception not the norm. With this laptop you could've swapped the display and your mother would still have a functioning laptop. You get the idea now ? There are MANY cases where a laptop is tossed out because something in it broke that's either not repairable at all, or too expensive to be worth. Especially for people who went through that, this laptop, giving the confidence that except being struck by lightning or phisically destroyed, it can be repaired is very valuable. And not a waste of money.
Not having physical touchpad buttons is a deal-breaker for me. Which is too bad, since I love the idea behind the company and this product. Hopefully that will be an option at some point in the future. I'd also love to have a non-chiclet keyboard option, but that seems unlikely to fit in that case form factor.
It's very possible that future purchaseable options could include a touchpad with buttons. I would bet someone in the community forum has already thought of this.
Dave used to look like he was 18 with short hair. Now he looks like he's finished college and is 25 yrs old. He's still cool. He hasn't become like the old people yet. I wish I could hang out with him. Maybe we could go to the mall and get some pizza and check out sneakers or something. We work now so we dont have to ask our parents for money.
It’s actually quite strange that there has been standards for desktops (motherboard, cpu sockets, pci slots) whereas the laptops never went in that direction. I wonder why that is so, is it the technology is / need to be more custom made, cost efficiency or just not enough suppliers to make it modular. Wish them good luck
If every OEM went modular and people stopped upgrading their laptops, that would be the end of PC OEMs. It is a dead end of a business model and that is my concern for Framework. Once they run out of people who believe in modularity they will suffer lower and lower sales and then what happens to future component upgrades?
Not really that strange. Modularity & upgradability requires defining, for every current component, the interfaces (physical & electrical), reserving space & volume, and locking in the physical layout. It also requires anticipating & predicting future component requirements to design in sufficient flexibility & additional headroom. That all has a cost: - Extra engineering to design it - additional materials, sockets, plugs, wires, screws, magnets - over engineered parts (e.g, allowing for extra current for those future GPU upgrades) - additional weight - additional volume - additional assembly time & cost and harder to automate assembly - higher risk of assembly failures - additional documentation, repair guides - extra inventory to maintain - Hinders the ability to innovate in future due to the extra constraints of maintaining compatibility across generations All of those extra costs add to the price tag and impact the ability to be price competitive (as people have clearly pointed out)
Most people just didn't care about modularity in laptops having a small and nice looking one is more important for many. We had upgradable laptops but they were big and heavy. So if you need to cary that thing around everyday small and lightweight is somewhat important
@@Amphibax yeah it would be interesting to know how many people actually upgraded their ram, storage or WiFi card when it’s possible. I guess the numbers are so low that laptop makers resorted to non replaceable stuff to the detriment for those that do….
8:39 It's not actually smart and probably can't do any of that. Disregard the lackluster GPU. There's really no use for this. If you put in a hotter CPU that needs bigger heatpipes and fans, the chassis itself will not be able to accommodate it. The modular back is really useless. If you make an ugly extension that goes further out the back, like the GPU, the extra heatpipes would take up space where the current fans are, so they would have to be smaller (louder). And there would be more fans and heatsinks in the extension. It would be better to make a new chassis with proper cooling integrated into the design that can take all the old modules.
Man I can't wait to see what the community mods would be made for this thing! I'd love to pre purchase this but framework being a new company with releasing a new product I'm gonna wait a few months before buying myself
The main thing drawing me to Framework ahead of even the upgradeability is the configurability! The fact you can put in an amount of RAM and storage ahead of any laptop I've seen and on par with most desktops makes these laptops true desktop replacements.
Framework is doing an incredible job with their products One thing I would just be paranoid about is others casually just taking apart bits from my laptop
@@Michael-ue9us I think hes talking about like being at school, people will sometimes steal dongles and things like that just to be a troll. So if someone knows what a framework is and feels like being a troll they might just steal a few spacers or ports.
Framework is my dream come true! I loved assembling a PC but never had a chance to assemble a LAPTOP. I am pretty old and retired and do not have the money to buy one. Hats off to designer of FRAMEWORK. The tablet is keeping me HAPPY.
I hope that these will eventually be ready to "order and invoice" in a way that I can take advantage of the "tax free holiday" in some states. In my state that saves 10% which is significant and takes some of the sting of the higher price. I'd probably go with the higher end eventually and with a newer external GPU...will see what happens in 2024!
Would be nice if we could have a touch-pad module that goes on the numpad position on the side of the keyboard. Or even one keyboard setting that you can attach to the bottom half of the laptop instead of the top half
The way these spacers next to the touchpad connect is a bit of an eyesore. I also wonder how it's going to work in a couple of years, after many part-swaps, if all of these magnets, sliders, etc. will not get wobbly and loose. Nevertheless, it's a very interesting and needed product in this ugly era of unrepairable, glued, soldered, anti-consumer and completely user-unfriendly devices.
Dave, I really hope that you will read this comment. I love your channel and the content that you produce, and I love you for making this video. Repairability and maintainability are necessary for a sustainable world for ourselves and our kids. I applaud Framework for creating this laptop, and I applaud you for shining a light on it. Cheers.
That was my first impression upon setting a framework (and I’ve only ever seen it on video) is that it does look cheap and plasticy. Currently have a MacBook and those thing feel and look solid
You can, all you have to do is understand the weakness of your flesh, until it disgusts you. Crave the strength and certainty of steel. Aspire to the purity of the blessed machine.
6:40 this is the *HUGE* disappointment with this device. Instead of this convoluted design, they could've just put an OcuLink connector for an eGPU. Luckily, they can upgrade the motherboard down the line for Thunderbolt 5.
In respect to this laptop "in theory lasting forever" by replacing all its parts over time: Have you heard of the Ship of Theseus? What would last forever when eventually all the parts are new? The laptop, or the concept of the laptop as a metaphysical entity? 🤯
Well apart from some eye, nerve, cortex and muscle cells, you are totally replaced about every 15 yrs. But not everything. Just like the laptop will have the same aluminium skeleton intact.
@@andyb9664 Basically the only thing that makes us us from birth to death is our memories and perception of self that is stored in the brain, which also regenerates. So you could say as long as the data, memory and OS are copied to every new regeneration of the laptop it would be the same laptop.
That's AWESOME ! It does not take much to improve on the stability of this device, all you need is some reinforced edges on the main body and thin bands of sturdy material (like a exo-skeleton grid) at the back of the screen around the logo. The idea of a reinforced grid is to keep the weight down instead of thickening the whole external body. If they ditch the minimalist look for that idea it can be a more recognizable and effective unit. Elevating and reinforcing the height around the fan module can also improve the rigidity while offering potentially a better cooling system.
video editors and graphic designers would love this kind of thing, being upgradable and portable, being able to work anywhere and not be glued down to a specific spot. I hope in the future the prices would drop a bit so I can but this device as a backup for my desktop
3 drops max maybe 4 assuming the 3rd and 4th drop was the unit in your backpack / laptop bag . Can see them clips being the 1st to go followed by accumulation of dirt and gunk especially with all them pin connectors. But still the dream laptop for laptop only uses excited to see this go far.
The fact that the keyboard trackpad and macro keys are pogo pins and not ribbon cables is wild to me. I know theyd basically have to have multiple routes of ribbon cables otherwise which is bad for the cables when not plugged in but thats still wild, this is coming from someone who has torn down a lot of laptops. I knew the bezels for the screen were magnetic as well, but seriously this is wild
This is such a great idea with equally great execution. Very well done to Framework team. Such a utilitarian and future proof approach. Thank you Dave for presenting it so well to us. I do hope it will catch on, and prices goes down as it gains traction to mass produce. One future obstacle maybe that many people still desperately want to stand out and show off, hopefully Framework will also provide a system to accommodate this needs to "be different and broadcast it", either with exchangeable outer shell with outlandish design, or a premium material of some sort, or hell just a premium sticker might be enough, just to satisfy those needs.
Ship Of Theseus, so basically if u repair the parts ever so often at the end is it the original laptop u bought or a new laptop entirely, This relates to the cost since after u finish one cycle of replacing the cost will probably somewhat account to a new laptop entirely, but worse since some parts are older then others.
That is amazing. I have not watched your videos for a long time. Watching this one today, and first thing I noticed is your long hair. I grew my hair out, too. This is just giving me goosebumps. Not a bad thing at all, just a funny realization.
8:19 not just upgrade but that's well easy to clean! They just need to darken the aluminium and round the corners off more to make it more fruit like and job done, folk will think it's sophisticated. I'd deffo buy one when they produce an Intel and Nvidia based components.
Thanks, really cool. I have the other framework and I was just curious on this one. I actually have no use for a gaming or larger laptop. Currently I LOVE my framework 13 inch, I have the build yourself so that I could better understand what I would have to do if something broke or I want to upgrade later. It is very easy to build in, and very easy to assemble. In fact it broke once, don't even know what. It just went black and stopped working. I opened it up took the battery out and just made sure every connector was down and then recconected the battery. Boom it worked and has been since, so I maybe didn't fully connect a connector when I first build. What is so great is if this was my last laptop a surface 2, there is no way I would have been able to do this. I still have my surface, but the battery is shot. It holds for maybe 5 minutes. I just can't get inside to replace it, now this laptop if say in 3 years has the same issue. I can buy a new battery and I can double its life. Sure it was 2x the price, but it is a nicer laptop that last 2x the time. I am a cheap person. I HATED the idea of $1200 on a laptop. In fact I was going to buy a $400-$500 laptop. The only reason I went Framework is because in the last 10 years I have had 4 $400-$600 laptops all break in some dumb way and I can't repair. It was about $2000 over 10 years. Well if I can get 6 years out of this laptop then I will have had a better laptop at the same cost per year. So I did the cost analysis and due to repair I argue the 13" atleast is cheaper per year.
Dave is a though professional who tends to be cautious and a bit skeptical. See his pre-order video re this. Therefore, to see his pleasure and approbation when demonstrating the real thing means a lot. The graphics card approach is something we associate with heavy duty desktops and because GPUs are usually the weakest point of laptops due to overheating, the placement on the Framework is both elegantly simple and ensures the best airflow pattern possible on a slimline machine. I would be happier to see a bit more air space underneath but one could easily use such as plumbers' tap washers attached with 'school glue' (for ease of removal without mess) in high ambient temperatures or when using these laptops in education settings. I worked in equipment procurement until retirement last year and our techies in UK local education authorities under the UK Dept for Education state system had stated that the original 13" was probably the start of the cost-efficient flexibility needed. The release of the initial 16" could well mean that state education in such as the UK, Australia, several European countries and richer Asian and African countries will make Framework a mainstay brand very quickly. Other manufacturers need to do some deep thinking because they cannot all survive if they stick to more or less sealed machines which are costly to repair in centres "ruled" by manufacturers. Dave's concern about the seemingly bendy display is valid up to a point but I recall that when IBM/Lenovo and Dell many years ago made large screen workstations both companies found that they needed to build in some flexing and some older folks will recall the uneven width bezels on ThinkPad W and T series machines. This was done to control the stresses on the panels by guiding forces away from the delicate panel edges of the time. Both Dell and Lenovo also had asymmetrical hinges or "watch strap" solutions until panels became inherently stronger.
Few modules here and there , it can be a favorite of both games and professionals . This is the future. I will definitely buy it after I start my professional carrier in IT sector.
if i ever get that laptop my first concern would be what if someone messes with it when it's left unattended. They really need to put some biometric system which lets you inside the machine
CORRECTION: You can swap the Expansion Bay Modules (like the discrete GPU) without removing the Mid Plate, so it's actually relatively quick. For example, The Verge did it in around 2 minutes here: ua-cam.com/video/-IYIuJ_CLPM/v-deo.html
I mentioned @2:10 that this was an engineering sample. For clarity, it's a DVT2 pre-production engineering sample, so there are parts of the mechanical fit and finish that are not final (in the process of being tuned before final release). This specific unit wasn't a review sample, but just a random internal development unit.
As for availability, the Framework Laptop 16 is still in the pre-order phase. If you want to check it out, visit frame.work/laptop-16
I'll never get used to the haircut 😂
@Dave2D please review the Asus Zenbook 14 Flip OLED 2023
Note that this is a pre-release prototype, which means a bunch of the overall mechanical fit and finish is incomplete.
There suld be 2 NVME slots. Stacked
@ianthomas1955 They did say they ran out of room. I'd personally be fine with a single slot with double sided SSD support.
I hope this company really succeeds long term
They probably be bought out by Dell, and that is how they survive. Honestly, the product is amazing but the actual business plan is lunacy.
It won't survive without drastic changes to it imo...
_tldr bit :_
I hope it does, it's a great thing to own if you are a collector. Just I see the specs versus the actual cost of ownership - then I think supply is limited, the market just isn't large enough without investment and changes at the top strategically.
They will sell though because the products are good, though they won't profit sufficiently to continue past 2-3 years. I highly recommend them as an IPO share in future though!
same... but it my mind i only see them being bought in the future. Hope it will not. If that had to happen, i wish it was a good company
@@04_ruizatanedy24 Lol there's no such thing, Framework itself is the closest we'll ever get to a good company. The moment they get bought their products will start getting progressively worse and worse.
They'll either be bought out or everyone else will just copy them, and they'll be left behind.
Yeah…they will most likely be bought out strictly for sourcing their parts. Sure, the parts are modular but those parts are also proprietary. Unless they have an endless supply for each and every skew, I can see them looking for partnerships.
We need this company to succeed.
True
I put out a video a few weeks ago on why I think it will, they really did their homework as a company@@tiract
only idiots think this, and idiot wannabe startup companies try this, they all evaporate into nothing after burning shitloads of money, because they have no clue, whatsoever, about anything, at all, just like the ordinary customer.
and the company needs to lower the price.
@@AdarshMeher-xe9dl you can only do that at scale and by using predatory business practices like virtually every other company, if you care about modularity and repairability/environment, this is the price it comes with (and consider the fact that you'll actually be able to upgrade the laptop and save yourself money in the long term, instead of having to buy a whole new computer)
The industrial designer in me cannot help but respect the applied intelligence behind this thing.
As a not-industrial-designer, I am very impressed with how they made the laptop, especially the keyboard and all, so easy to tinker with. I can only imagine how you feel.
I am REALLY rooting for them.
Hopefully they're just not only getting respect for the customers
But also getting bought
@@fajarkurniawan9434 I worry that if they get bought, then this dream would die a death by million cuts. other companies dont really want a modular concept to succeed as that would reduce what they can sell. the first to go would be the time for which parts are available. the new company would also make the new models slightly different so that parts can be interchanged. hence you modular laptop only gets replacement parts. there are too many things that a new owner can screw up. Its better they remain independent.
@@fajarkurniawan9434As someone who subscribed to their newsletter, I can tell you that more people are buying than they expected. Turns out that people were absolutely ravenous for a 16 inch AMD notebook from them.
the real ai
The amount of planning required to make something like this and keep it relevant 5 years down the line is genius! I really do hope the company succeeds
its so refreshing to see a company making big promises ACTUALLY deliver on them, and more. Framework has my respect for sure
Juicero actually delivered on their big promise too…
It's not worth the money, just get an Asus G14.
@@jondonnelly3the asus is not worth the e-waste.
@@IdaReggaeMonframework has a 3 year track record of nothing but success, bitch. On top of that, they sold out of preorders for the 16" version in like 12 minutes. The demand exceeded their expectations.
@@jondonnelly3So you'd rather get something from a company not as pro consumer just to save a few bucks!? What is wrong with you!?
This thing is literally the coolest laptop I’ve seen for a long time. Amazing build quality for something so take-apart-able. Fantastic job Framework!
Fans are usually the first thing to go on a laptop, and on some (thinkpad T30s) they are buried in the deepest section of the laptop. To be able to install the fan through a "slot" on the back of the laptop or to be able to just pull out the fan & clean it with a hairdryer is UNREAL!! Nice work!!
As someone that worked in r&d for ten years+, pogo pins life span is something to keep an eye at. Their springs tend to fail after a while and you start getting bad contact. Hopefully these are also replaceable if needed.
That was my concern too - just as a hunch though.
10:17, maybe they sell replacements of this panel.
@@jujuu1339 they will. And putting those contact pins on a replaceable midplate is GENIUS.
Everything is replaceable if you're good enough at soldering.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 lel
My laptop from around 12 years ago was somewhat modular: RAM, CPU, GPU, HDD, wireless were all removable as well as the battery. It was a tremendous shame watching laptops get more and more "integrated", especially in the ultrabook class. Nice to see Framework not only reversing this but taking it a few steps further!
And no warranty void if removed stickers. In fact the warranty often encourages you to fix it yourself. lol
Other laptop manufacturers can certainly learn a thing or two from this.
Dell are quite repairable.
A new standard for the industry.
profits over anything boys, its just business
they could, but most of them are more interested in selling you a new device every couple years
@@oliviamayumi imagine you're a company, you need money to stay alive and grow to push more money in R&D. I'm pretty sure modular is a great thing but business wise, heck no.
I freaking love Framework. I really want them to succeed because there is nothing else quite like what they are doing. Props to the designers and the team because engineering this stuff could not have been easy, plus making it not cost more than people would be willing to pay!
You've got to admire the engineering around the modularity.
No i do not. The basic, non gimmickal modularity is the port modules, and they have morronic dimensions. Cannot fit double ports, cannot have double modules that could easily fit them.
@@constantinosschinas4503 the rest of the modularity is gimmicky? What laptop manufacturers will allow you to buy a laptop without any windows, ram, storage, etc so you can buy the parts yourself for half the cost?
@@meatisomalley The project needed better modular architecture/design choices in the early phases. Now, too much modularity, half baked, with flimpsy result and... expensive.
@@constantinosschinas4503 Maybe. Most consumers seem very happy with the product, at least as far as the target audience who purchased the laptop goes. I think it's a cool concept and if the cost of manufacturing can decrease a little bit over the years it's an easy purchase for me.
@@constantinosschinas4503so aside from the extreme vagueness, the notion that it is flimsy and expensive is plain wrong. I have personally been using a framework 16 for a couple of weeks now, and it has a better build then almost every laptop that people claim it competes against. And expensive? Relative to what? Cheap gaming laptops made out of plastic?
Can you at least be more specific if you want to cope and mald all day in a UA-cam comment section.
I can't believe that they actually delivered on all of their promises. My next laptop is going to be a framework
I see spacers and I am sold. Next laptop!
I want the 16 inch!
yeah mine too, once my LG Gram 17 dies, the FW16 would be my next
Dang, just the way that keyboard layout looks says that this labtop is made with love. A full backspace key and shift keys! A dedicated FN button! Even a number pad!!! Or ig macro pad, im guessing u can customize. Wow, the magnetic everything is so cool!!! U can rly customize this computer! So so so cool!!!
There's another module for numpad .... Plus rgb panels and dot matrix panel, etc
Yeah, idk if it's mechanical though 😕
@@Showz333 well I hate hurting my wrist by constantly bottoming out, and hate the mushiness. Noone who is sane would like a mushy, scratchy, hammer feeling keyboard
@@Showz333 every mebbrane has some degree of Mush beacuse it uses rubber
@@Showz333 an external mechanical blows the best laptop keyboards iouta the water
We have to help this succeed.
I'm so tired getting screwed by tech companies
I do think over time, if they're successful, the build of the overall shell can easily become more rigid and solid feeling. This approach, they're pioneering in this space. They want to get it marketable somewhat on a price to upgradeability tradeoff. I think if they get more and more people to go for it, they'll have more leeway on machining to really improve the experience further.
I think this may not happen because framework says they wanna stick to their 70% recycled aluminum composite or whatever their using for the laptop shell.
they are still a very young company and there is much room to grow and improve. I really hope they succeed. Sadly I bought a overpriced macbook pro m1 16 inch but my next laptop in 5-7 years will probably be a framework.
I think those bottom spacers (next to the trackpad) single handedly make the laptop look much cheaper than it is, it would be nice to see some alternatives there...
Yeah, I'd love to see a black version of the trackpad and spacers, I feel like the silver really highlights the existence of those seams.
@@clickykbd there are black spacers but no black trackpad
True. They should have sold an additional solid version that doesn't need spacers
The fans being easily swappable is really cool. Performance oriented laptops put a lot of strain on the fans and they're pretty much guaranteed to fail after a while. I recently had to replace fans on my laptop and it was a major pain the ass, taking off the ENTIRE heat sink just to get the fans off.
Yeah just cleaning the fans alone would be way way easier.
Hehe fans… cool…
Seriously. Years ago I helped a fellow college student fix her laptop's overheating issue (it ended up being a wad of horse hair in the fan, go figure - she was in the Ranch Management program), and I basically had to break that thing down into its component pieces to get to the fan. The motherboard had to come out, the screen had to come off, and by the end it wasn't laptop-shaped anymore, just a pile of parts.
@@nimbusws2566cue the laugh track
They (or someone) could release a new fan module when Lenovo's patent on the owl-wing fan expires.
PS. If anyone can find that patent, post the patent number here (not the URL as outgoing hyperlinks don't seem to work on many channels) please. I'd like to 3D print them for older, pre-owlwing ThinkPads.
I switched my primary system to Mac but I am in the market for a "primary" gaming system and a Framework laptop really appeals to me because of the modularity. Maybe when I have laptop money again, I'll give Framework a shot. I looked into the other gaming laptops but they are incredibly expensive and like you said, you are stuck with whatever components are in the system.
hopefully framework comes to other countries soon. i want this to be my next laptop. just the convenience of being able to change the placement of stuff or swap ports anytime is game changing. and being able to upgrade it down the line is also nice.
dave didnt mention everything about the laptop but he did point out some new things which other reviewers haven't.
I watched one of your videos in the past about the viability of this 16 inch and it kinda made a whole lots of sense. Considering that upgrading the laptop (at the given prices of the components) would eventually be the same or equal to a whole new machine, the only consolation would be that you’re avoiding ewaste (and its fully modular and customizable to your needs) if you keep buying a whole new laptop every couple of years.
I really want Framework to succeed and eventually lower the price down of upgrade components but until that time its a hard proposition despite the upgradability and modularity.
They should make a tough version that is thicker to have that rigidity but uses same replaceable components. That would be a great alternative for those who don't really need it that thin.
that was a really interesting point he made about the rigidity. people's perception plays a lot into how they value things. Your suggestion would be a really great idea at least in terms of a poster boy product that gives you everything (while being a bit thicker to improve the rigidity issue)
Nobody needs a laptop to be thin. People just want that for some asinine reason
@@BahhBahhBrownSheepThin and lights are great what are you talking about? For my workloads having a light and thin laptop for field work is much better than a 5+ pound machine that does the same thing.
I understand why thicker laptops are desired and the benefits they have but to say that nobody needs a thin laptop is just crazy talk
@@jeevejavari8461 so you’re going to tell me that losing 2-4 millimeters on a laptop is beneficial to you? How? If it’s weight and half a pound affects you, I’d say you’re the problem because that should not be noticeable to you, nor should you be holding your laptop when using it anyway. If it’s because it’s taking space in your bag, how? It’s literally only 2-4 millimeters and that makes almost no real world difference but in terms of internal design it’s monumental. The amount of quality and features people will happily throw away to shave a couple millimeters off a frame is ridiculous. Having an actual structural frame, slots opposed to soldered components, and batteries that don’t suck ass are wAAAY more important than this thin BS.
Just look at Apple, they finally got this through their thick skulls recently and the new Pro models are a bit thicker, which gave us bigger batteries, better coolers, a keyboard that doesn’t feel like you’re tapping on a table, and real ports again like an SD reader and HDMI. I’ve not seen one person complain about them being heavy or big. If other companies stopped chasing this old trend we’d all be better for it. ALL of us.
@@jeevejavari8461Thin is not the same as lightweight.
Bro i LOVE that format see you and the pc at the same time it is awesome keep doing that.
And my love for Dave2D lasts even longer
And my love for your love for Dave2D lasts even longer
HE HAS WIFE AND KIDS.
Cringe 😬
@@n3gi_so we can't love a creator if they have a wife and kids??
Fr
love the warm lighting in the studio
The other thing you forgot to mention with buying 2 laptops vs upgrading a component is the amount of waste. Upgrading the laptop's GPU component will always be less wasteful than buying another laptop. This and user reparability are the main reasons I want this laptop to succeed.
I beg to differ, when you buy a new laptop, your old one is either going to another family member or friend or sold to another person or shop, buying a new module on the other hand, you would probably throw away the previous module due to its redundancy.
@@kevindavid732yes sell broken parts to refurbish or scrap and any old parts can be sold yes but repairable is always better than replacing everything when a screen is cracked or broken or motherboard is broken you still get to keep a lot of unbroken stuff just feels good...
@@kevindavid732actually, framework specifically has the marketplace for allowing you to sell the module. Not to mention for the mainboards you can repurpose an old mainboard into a desktop with the cooler master case and give it to a family member. There is nothing that a normal laptop does that a framework can't.
@@heroninja1125 don't know about you but I'd rather stick to my trusty g14
@@kevindavid732 which is actually inline with the philosophy behind these kinds of products... Only replace stuff when you need to. The G14 should serve you for a few years yet.
I agree with you dave, besides it looks cheap, I can see uneven cut for those materials on the side of the trackpad
Great video. The engineering that went into the Framework laptops is top shelf. There will have to be some compromises between rigidity and customization & upgradability. Still patiently awaiting for mine to arrive in Q1 '24.
ya well if you expect me to subscribe to your channel after watching this video, you are on the right track.
The thing i like about this video, is you get right to the point without a lot of extra nonsense. I wish more tech videos would be like this. and now..im interested more than ever in the framework
I knew Dave would come around to this device! Glad to see a company be so pro consumer! We need more companies to be more repairable!
My preorder is waiting in batch 1!
Such attempt itself is worthy of praise.
Everyone talked about for many years... but very few did.
I would love to have a thicker version of these laptops for better cooling tbh. Great laptops though!
Bro.....That laptop is already thicc with 2 c's
@@Techfanatic73How is 18 mm thicc with two Cs? That's honestly really thin for something with this level if upgradability and power!
I too would love a normal laptop fitted with an OP cooling system. Light is nice, but quiet running under load is better.
something like Alienware 18...I sold that beast 3 years ago
The community also builds modules, someone will sooner or later make a discrete cooling module
I think people also forget that you can also swap out the chassis if it gets too scuffed up. Design and aesthetics are also bound to improve as the company grows without you throwing away working parts.I really wish this company does well and gets a significant portion of the laptop market.
As a tech enthusiast I'd love to purchase a laptop like that. It's not a finished, polished by time and several generations product as for right now, but me spending money on it hopefully will promote modular tech.
Good for nature, great for people, love the idea of it.
But I have concerns as for accessibility of parts (that's obviously crucial) and this product being represent worldwide (not all of us tech fans live in North America).
Thank goodness they did not focus on speed changes of parts and instead focused on the ability to change those parts at all while keeping quality and reliability. Good for them.
At about 11:31 where the screen is propped up perpendicular to the camera, it's really clear that it's not straight. Maybe he just managed to close one hinge slightly more than the other, but it could be that the thin aluminum has bent slightly. Hopefully that doesn't turn into a large problem with these laptops.
Truly a fantastic concept and more importantly, a fantastic implementation.
the fact that this laptop is suitable for both gaming and office work with just a single gpu swap is insane. My gaming laptop lasts around 6.5h before it dies in the office, but now it's a whole new level
well, if you can plug it in for office work, you don't need to swap at all! For me, it is more like the prospect of upgrade later down the line that thrills me.
This laptop is just awesome!! And the idea behind the modularity is super cool.
Seeing countless well-wishes for Framework's success here and well .. everywhere. That alone is a strong indication it will be. Last years 16 pre-order launch crashed the servers. Glowing reviews, thanks, and kudos are raining down.
We've been pining for something like this for ages. Someone finally did it and it has a name. It's superbly engineered and they're well-partnered and financed. Their success, longeveity, and possible domination feels all but assured. WE will make it so. The disruption is real, and everyone will be playing catch up.
Dave makes a good point about the _apparent_ flimsiness to the casual user. I don't know actual sales volume, but those of us who know better are snapping them up like like hungry wolves. I believe that is establishing a reputation which the masses will get wind of, alleviating any concerns about "flimsy" feel.
At first unboxing I was slightly skeptical about feel. Now that it's together and I'm just using it... the feel of use trades blows with my previous laptop, the Zephyrus M16 (technically took a downgrade on specs to get the framework)
This laptop design is amazing; we need standardize the size and the interface of modular laptop that free sharing across multiple manufacturers just like atx, matx, itx. then we can build our own laptop from buying different manufacturer’s components.
It would be really satisfying to me to own a framework laptop. I just love the whole idea about repairability and upgradability. One reason why I was a fan of ThinkPads in the first place.
Initially wasn't convinced a while ago by Dave growing out his hair, but damn, he's rockin it
Amaze to see how far we have come and can't wait to see more innovation like this ahead ❤ Keep innovating y'all
That's so amazing.... Not just the modularity but the quality in each component. I would indeed pay a bit more for this kind of laptop
A nightmare for Apple. They put all their efforts into the product to NOT get fixed.
lol. I will pick sturdy built MacBook over this crap
@@harshpatel105MacBook, lol
Lol copied comment. Idk but there are two comments below this with the exact characters of it.
@@jeremyroe Yeah, but the 90% should have an option to get it repaired from the repair shop. It doesn't have to be modular. A right to repair is a must when you own a thing and spend a lot of money on it.
You don't need apple laptop to be repaired as "it does not break". Using my MacBook air since 2 years now and it is new as ever.
A few years ago I had a lenovo Y500 with swappable modules. Obviously not the same level of customizability and upgradeability, but allowed you to get different modules suitable to your use case
Coming from an older MSI GS65 Stealth, like the first model, I think I can live with the flex and lack of rigidity because the MSI unfortunately had that issue as well. Over time it's not a big issue. What IS an issue is the components slowly failing one by one on this thing that constitute the need to replace it (in the computer's defense it is about 5+ years old now) whereas with a Framework I could fairly easily replace the failing modules.
Also just the idea of once you upgrade something like the logic board on this thing you can throw the old one into a case and make it like a media PC or something and that's pretty wild to me.
That little red tab when you pull the locking tab out is such a nice touch
I wouldn't mind a thicker and more rigid chassis in it. Because they are trying to make a laptop as upgradeable as a desktop. Question is:
Can I get a thicker and tougher spare frame/chassis in the future?
Will there be aftermarket spare parts?
answer to q1: possibly, answer to q2: yes.
lol a pørn bot copied your comment but didn't add the question
lol a pørn bot copied your comment but didn't add the question
You don't need a thicker frame. The back module (which contains the cooling system) can be as thick as needed. It doesn't necessarily have to have the same thickness as the laptop frame, because it can protrude both down and back. But, it is up to Framework to make different back modules.
My dream would be to have a modular laptop of smaller handheld size like a GPD Win but with swappable motherboards. Or swap keyboards for a game pad that takes up more vertical room and the replaceable I/O cards in the back.
Reminds me of the old IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads. Just a couple of screws and each part just lifted out.
I did just pull apart an x220 last week and it does have a fairly similar feel overall. The framework is a bit more beginner friendly though.
I never thought I'd see the day I could convert a laptop to having a left-hand-side numpad in under a minute. I can enjoy all my deranged spreadsheet fantasies now.
You sicko! :p
Nice to see that Dave not only has excellent taste in tech but also watches.
For reference it’s the casioak
Also known as the GA 2100
planning to get this for engineering, it's so sick
From experience stay at Nvidia side for engineering even though I had same thoughts to get this for my interior designer sister.
Engineering software is shit honestly and even with Nvidia is bad
@@firasrabaia
Can confirm, started in aerospace engineering before switching to computer science. For both I recommend Nvidia so you can run things locally and you’re not having to spend 70% of your study time in a computer lab.
Edit - Not because Nvidia is faster or anything like that, AMD makes very respectable stuff, it’s just that a good amount of engineering software and AI stuff in CS won’t work without CUDA.
You honestly don’t need a laptop for that since labs and anything by else you need will be supplied via a university container van you can always remote in. TBH comments like “I’m getting this for [insert whatever engineering or CS]” are over done in the framework subreddit.
Guarantee you that you can get by with just a Chromebook, there’s no need for you to state that you’ll be getting it for this as some means to further justify your expense (which I remind you this laptop isn’t cheap even if you plan to get your own memory and storage which frameworks pricing accounted for)
Honestly depends on what kind of engineering you do. For normal non ML programming, go for a macbook. For anything with AI or machine or building design stuff like Autocad and solidworks, go for an Nvidia windows machine.
@@wanikhawar you just restated what everyone else has been saying
Am I the only one, I love your simple using Setup, very unique and it calls the attention of anyone who have eyes ❤
When you pay the premium for framework, it's not about bang for the buck where you could buy 2 laptops instead of one framework + one upgrade. It's about sending a message that you're done with disposable tech, and you'll vote with your wallet even if it's a bit more.
My wallet has no vote, so I'm gonna keep watching craigslist for something a few years older. 😅
It's sending a message that you can afford to waste money. Honestly, a laptop I bought in 2013 was passed down to my mother and she used it until the display failed. Now my brother uses it hooked to a TV for media.
That's how you use tech if you want to be environmentally friendly. If you buy this laptop and next year change the CPU and throw out the old one, and in two years change the GPU and throw out the old one, then you're not friendly at all. It's just a self-pat on the back.
I'm team ebay and Facebook marketplace
@@Dranzelland if your laptop’s motherboard fries, then what?
@@Dranzell Am myself using a 13 year old desktop (with a minor used GPU upgrade).
But laptops tend to die quicker if they're not just used as desktop replacements. Especially cheaper ones.
Ideally you'll use one longer, but eventually something dies, or imagine, eventually you need more performance - then you do have a more environmentally friendly way to handle this (especially since you can keep using the old motherboard, if it didn't die somewhere along the way).
I just had to replace my 4 year old laptops motherboard just to keep it working, and it was NOT worth it financially, but I didn't feel like buying anything new for the interim to a framework. With a framework, I didn't need to consider if it's worth it, I'd just do it and get an upgrade along with it.
@@Dranzell You're overall right, but laptops living for 10 years is the exception not the norm. With this laptop you could've swapped the display and your mother would still have a functioning laptop. You get the idea now ? There are MANY cases where a laptop is tossed out because something in it broke that's either not repairable at all, or too expensive to be worth. Especially for people who went through that, this laptop, giving the confidence that except being struck by lightning or phisically destroyed, it can be repaired is very valuable. And not a waste of money.
11:30 oh my god, I have to admit. That transition was DISGUSTING CLEAN
Not having physical touchpad buttons is a deal-breaker for me. Which is too bad, since I love the idea behind the company and this product. Hopefully that will be an option at some point in the future. I'd also love to have a non-chiclet keyboard option, but that seems unlikely to fit in that case form factor.
It's very possible that future purchaseable options could include a touchpad with buttons. I would bet someone in the community forum has already thought of this.
Dave used to look like he was 18 with short hair. Now he looks like he's finished college and is 25 yrs old. He's still cool. He hasn't become like the old people yet. I wish I could hang out with him. Maybe we could go to the mall and get some pizza and check out sneakers or something. We work now so we dont have to ask our parents for money.
It’s actually quite strange that there has been standards for desktops (motherboard, cpu sockets, pci slots) whereas the laptops never went in that direction. I wonder why that is so, is it the technology is / need to be more custom made, cost efficiency or just not enough suppliers to make it modular. Wish them good luck
If every OEM went modular and people stopped upgrading their laptops, that would be the end of PC OEMs. It is a dead end of a business model and that is my concern for Framework. Once they run out of people who believe in modularity they will suffer lower and lower sales and then what happens to future component upgrades?
@@andyH_Englandyou make components upgrade profitable, you develop new form factors, you colaborate on r&d with others companies
Not really that strange.
Modularity & upgradability requires defining, for every current component, the interfaces (physical & electrical), reserving space & volume, and locking in the physical layout. It also requires anticipating & predicting future component requirements to design in sufficient flexibility & additional headroom.
That all has a cost:
- Extra engineering to design it
- additional materials, sockets, plugs, wires, screws, magnets
- over engineered parts (e.g, allowing for extra current for those future GPU upgrades)
- additional weight
- additional volume
- additional assembly time & cost and harder to automate assembly
- higher risk of assembly failures
- additional documentation, repair guides
- extra inventory to maintain
- Hinders the ability to innovate in future due to the extra constraints of maintaining compatibility across generations
All of those extra costs add to the price tag and impact the ability to be price competitive (as people have clearly pointed out)
Most people just didn't care about modularity in laptops having a small and nice looking one is more important for many. We had upgradable laptops but they were big and heavy. So if you need to cary that thing around everyday small and lightweight is somewhat important
@@Amphibax yeah it would be interesting to know how many people actually upgraded their ram, storage or WiFi card when it’s possible. I guess the numbers are so low that laptop makers resorted to non replaceable stuff to the detriment for those that do….
8:39 It's not actually smart and probably can't do any of that. Disregard the lackluster GPU. There's really no use for this. If you put in a hotter CPU that needs bigger heatpipes and fans, the chassis itself will not be able to accommodate it. The modular back is really useless. If you make an ugly extension that goes further out the back, like the GPU, the extra heatpipes would take up space where the current fans are, so they would have to be smaller (louder). And there would be more fans and heatsinks in the extension. It would be better to make a new chassis with proper cooling integrated into the design that can take all the old modules.
Man I can't wait to see what the community mods would be made for this thing! I'd love to pre purchase this but framework being a new company with releasing a new product I'm gonna wait a few months before buying myself
The main thing drawing me to Framework ahead of even the upgradeability is the configurability! The fact you can put in an amount of RAM and storage ahead of any laptop I've seen and on par with most desktops makes these laptops true desktop replacements.
Framework is doing an incredible job with their products
One thing I would just be paranoid about is others casually just taking apart bits from my laptop
Well the most they could do is remove the ports keyboard and bezel. The other things still need screwdriver access.
Or they could just steal the whole thing like any other laptop, this isn't any different
damn imagine going to the toilet and some mf took your HDMI port
@@Michael-ue9us I think hes talking about like being at school, people will sometimes steal dongles and things like that just to be a troll. So if someone knows what a framework is and feels like being a troll they might just steal a few spacers or ports.
Framework is my dream come true!
I loved assembling a PC but never had a chance to assemble a LAPTOP.
I am pretty old and retired and do not have the money to buy one.
Hats off to designer of FRAMEWORK.
The tablet is keeping me HAPPY.
I hope that these will eventually be ready to "order and invoice" in a way that I can take advantage of the "tax free holiday" in some states. In my state that saves 10% which is significant and takes some of the sting of the higher price. I'd probably go with the higher end eventually and with a newer external GPU...will see what happens in 2024!
Would be nice if we could have a touch-pad module that goes on the numpad position on the side of the keyboard. Or even one keyboard setting that you can attach to the bottom half of the laptop instead of the top half
The way these spacers next to the touchpad connect is a bit of an eyesore. I also wonder how it's going to work in a couple of years, after many part-swaps, if all of these magnets, sliders, etc. will not get wobbly and loose. Nevertheless, it's a very interesting and needed product in this ugly era of unrepairable, glued, soldered, anti-consumer and completely user-unfriendly devices.
It's not designed with many part swaps taking place in mind, other than for the USB C modules.
I legit had my jaw dropped open while you were moving the trackpad amd keyboard around. Thats amazing
Dave, I really hope that you will read this comment. I love your channel and the content that you produce, and I love you for making this video. Repairability and maintainability are necessary for a sustainable world for ourselves and our kids. I applaud Framework for creating this laptop, and I applaud you for shining a light on it. Cheers.
imagine dropping it accidentally and then all the pieces go flying all over the place 😹
~12:24 I for one will 100% give up some rigidity for the upgradeability and reparability.
Even for environmental reasons, this laptop makes sense
That was my first impression upon setting a framework (and I’ve only ever seen it on video) is that it does look cheap and plasticy. Currently have a MacBook and those thing feel and look solid
I wish I could last forever
You can
@@lil_brumskihow bro? :D
@@PixelSheepby leaving a legacy of success, or bringing some good children into this world
You can, all you have to do is understand the weakness of your flesh, until it disgusts you. Crave the strength and certainty of steel. Aspire to the purity of the blessed machine.
Be jellyfish
6:40 this is the *HUGE* disappointment with this device. Instead of this convoluted design, they could've just put an OcuLink connector for an eGPU. Luckily, they can upgrade the motherboard down the line for Thunderbolt 5.
In respect to this laptop "in theory lasting forever" by replacing all its parts over time: Have you heard of the Ship of Theseus? What would last forever when eventually all the parts are new? The laptop, or the concept of the laptop as a metaphysical entity? 🤯
Well apart from some eye, nerve, cortex and muscle cells, you are totally replaced about every 15 yrs. But not everything. Just like the laptop will have the same aluminium skeleton intact.
@@andyb9664 Basically the only thing that makes us us from birth to death is our memories and perception of self that is stored in the brain, which also regenerates.
So you could say as long as the data, memory and OS are copied to every new regeneration of the laptop it would be the same laptop.
Haven't seen your content in like, 6 months now, and am blown away by the hair
Coolest modular laptop that should been viral, would love to have this now but not available for in Malaysia for now.
Shame on me for not watching your videos in a while but loving the hair. its giving Moose form step up and i love it.
That's AWESOME !
It does not take much to improve on the stability of this device, all you need is some reinforced edges on the main body and thin bands of sturdy material (like a exo-skeleton grid) at the back of the screen around the logo. The idea of a reinforced grid is to keep the weight down instead of thickening the whole external body.
If they ditch the minimalist look for that idea it can be a more recognizable and effective unit.
Elevating and reinforcing the height around the fan module can also improve the rigidity while offering potentially a better cooling system.
Also LINUX SUPPORT on this machine is a star feature making me envious of the owners, this needs to be mentioned.
video editors and graphic designers would love this kind of thing, being upgradable and portable, being able to work anywhere and not be glued down to a specific spot. I hope in the future the prices would drop a bit so I can but this device as a backup for my desktop
THis must be the future, i really want to support this and I hope the best for this company!!
3 drops max maybe 4 assuming the 3rd and 4th drop was the unit in your backpack / laptop bag . Can see them clips being the 1st to go followed by accumulation of dirt and gunk especially with all them pin connectors. But still the dream laptop for laptop only uses excited to see this go far.
The fact that the keyboard trackpad and macro keys are pogo pins and not ribbon cables is wild to me. I know theyd basically have to have multiple routes of ribbon cables otherwise which is bad for the cables when not plugged in but thats still wild, this is coming from someone who has torn down a lot of laptops. I knew the bezels for the screen were magnetic as well, but seriously this is wild
This is such a great idea with equally great execution. Very well done to Framework team. Such a utilitarian and future proof approach. Thank you Dave for presenting it so well to us.
I do hope it will catch on, and prices goes down as it gains traction to mass produce. One future obstacle maybe that many people still desperately want to stand out and show off, hopefully Framework will also provide a system to accommodate this needs to "be different and broadcast it", either with exchangeable outer shell with outlandish design, or a premium material of some sort, or hell just a premium sticker might be enough, just to satisfy those needs.
Ship Of Theseus, so basically if u repair the parts ever so often at the end is it the original laptop u bought or a new laptop entirely, This relates to the cost since after u finish one cycle of replacing the cost will probably somewhat account to a new laptop entirely, but worse since some parts are older then others.
Since i have an uncle who can appreciate the material construction and modularity. I think this would make a great gift option.
That is amazing. I have not watched your videos for a long time. Watching this one today, and first thing I noticed is your long hair. I grew my hair out, too. This is just giving me goosebumps. Not a bad thing at all, just a funny realization.
I hope there comes a low percent split keyboard module, that would be so cool
@ON-TELGRM-DAVE2D1 oof, bot detected
8:19 not just upgrade but that's well easy to clean! They just need to darken the aluminium and round the corners off more to make it more fruit like and job done, folk will think it's sophisticated. I'd deffo buy one when they produce an Intel and Nvidia based components.
Cmon Dave, no misleading titles. You are better than other average youtubers
Thanks, really cool. I have the other framework and I was just curious on this one. I actually have no use for a gaming or larger laptop. Currently I LOVE my framework 13 inch, I have the build yourself so that I could better understand what I would have to do if something broke or I want to upgrade later. It is very easy to build in, and very easy to assemble. In fact it broke once, don't even know what. It just went black and stopped working. I opened it up took the battery out and just made sure every connector was down and then recconected the battery. Boom it worked and has been since, so I maybe didn't fully connect a connector when I first build. What is so great is if this was my last laptop a surface 2, there is no way I would have been able to do this. I still have my surface, but the battery is shot. It holds for maybe 5 minutes. I just can't get inside to replace it, now this laptop if say in 3 years has the same issue. I can buy a new battery and I can double its life. Sure it was 2x the price, but it is a nicer laptop that last 2x the time.
I am a cheap person. I HATED the idea of $1200 on a laptop. In fact I was going to buy a $400-$500 laptop. The only reason I went Framework is because in the last 10 years I have had 4 $400-$600 laptops all break in some dumb way and I can't repair. It was about $2000 over 10 years. Well if I can get 6 years out of this laptop then I will have had a better laptop at the same cost per year.
So I did the cost analysis and due to repair I argue the 13" atleast is cheaper per year.
I knew the 16 was gonna be cool, but this is really cool
yes
Dave is a though professional who tends to be cautious and a bit skeptical. See his pre-order video re this. Therefore, to see his pleasure and approbation when demonstrating the real thing means a lot.
The graphics card approach is something we associate with heavy duty desktops and because GPUs are usually the weakest point of laptops due to overheating, the placement on the Framework is both elegantly simple and ensures the best airflow pattern possible on a slimline machine. I would be happier to see a bit more air space underneath but one could easily use such as plumbers' tap washers attached with 'school glue' (for ease of removal without mess) in high ambient temperatures or when using these laptops in education settings.
I worked in equipment procurement until retirement last year and our techies in UK local education authorities under the UK Dept for Education state system had stated that the original 13" was probably the start of the cost-efficient flexibility needed.
The release of the initial 16" could well mean that state education in such as the UK, Australia, several European countries and richer Asian and African countries will make Framework a mainstay brand very quickly.
Other manufacturers need to do some deep thinking because they cannot all survive if they stick to more or less sealed machines which are costly to repair in centres "ruled" by manufacturers.
Dave's concern about the seemingly bendy display is valid up to a point but I recall that when IBM/Lenovo and Dell many years ago made large screen workstations both companies found that they needed to build in some flexing and some older folks will recall the uneven width bezels on ThinkPad W and T series machines. This was done to control the stresses on the panels by guiding forces away from the delicate panel edges of the time. Both Dell and Lenovo also had asymmetrical hinges or "watch strap" solutions until panels became inherently stronger.
This is innovation. Right here.
Feel like I’ve been teleported back to the 90s when anything was possible.
Few modules here and there , it can be a favorite of both games and professionals .
This is the future.
I will definitely buy it after I start my professional carrier in IT sector.
if i ever get that laptop my first concern would be what if someone messes with it when it's left unattended. They really need to put some biometric system which lets you inside the machine
This will last forever like Trig's broom lasted two decades..