The 2003 turtles was pretty much the first serious show I ever watched and I got super invested in it. I still have my box of figures from the show in a drawer somewhere. Unlike other franchises from my childhood I didn't really keep up with the series because I was pretty sure none of the new versions could compare to these guys. This retrospective was a super fun time to watch and a trip down memory lane thanks for making it
when i became turtles fan, it was because i saw glimpses of 2003 show on tv and i fell in love with everything about it after a while i finaly got to watch the show and i soon realised how awersome it is, i was hooked on every story, altough i only watched untill end of season 1, except the part where turtles flee newyork, and from season 2 saw bare minimum, at best the civil war between foot, purple dragons and mafia edit: it is also because of this, that as a kid, i hated 1987 turtles, finding them boring, too kid friendly, imature and pointless
I love the ending forth wall moment of this movie, where Eastman and Laird are finishing the first issue, and are just like, "I hope it sells." This franchise had such humble beginnings, it will always be endearing to me.
I learned they picked the name Mirage Studios as there was no studio at the time, just 2 guys drawing at a table, so the studio was just in their heads
a funny thing i notice in that scene is that laird refered the comic as "the first issue" but in reality when they were making it it was intended as a one off comic and only became an on going series after it was released.
I like Turtles Forever, it’s a great send off for the 2003 series. And even though I haven’t seen the 80’s cartoon I do empathise with fans who loved that version get so poorly represented in this. It’s strange that this special is simultaneously a fun celebration of the franchise & also disrespectful & cynical towards one of if not the most popular iteration.
I'm guessing it's because the '80 cartoon gave the masses the impression that it was THE definitive TMNT simply for being the first big piece of TMNT media and made them think the 2003 version was a faux-edgy bastardization. Just like how Sega of America misrepresented '90s Sonic The Hedgehog unbeknownst to the larger West and thus catalyzed the initial backlash to Sonic Adventure. They made people want a lie. But looking at this more closely, it becomes clear that total faithfulness to ANY incarnation of TMNT was never the point of TF. Each cast was purposely flanderized to act like a hybrid of themselves and their fans, with the Splinters being the voices of reason. The whole point is that multiple incarnations of a franchise world can be valid in their own ways, and if so, it's kind of dumb to fight over which is "the right one". Of course, TMNT never had a certain OTHER problem Sonic had, which is mass retconning worldwide even after the original way was clarified, TRULY officially supplanting one canon with another like people wouldn't notice/care, as what happened with Adventure 2. And there's the issue of wasting storytelling opportunity in order to be commentorial-a pain I feel whenever I think of the Kirby anime. But I'm also not a fan of AU stories in general; I generally see them as copouts in lieu of actual creativity, fanservicey or not. And since TMNT actually started as a parody, perhaps the route TF took as a franchise-wide satire was the right one.
From what I understand, Laird, who was involved with the 2003 version, very much disliked the 1987 cartoon, due to its silliness and how they basically ignored his and Eastman's advice.
I always wondered if the characterization of the 87 Turtles was because of Peter Laird's own feelings towards the first adaptation of his work. Seems like Emilio Lopez speculated the same thing. This might also explain why the original Mirage Turtles are treated as the most badass Turtle team.
@@CarbonRollerCaco Exactly when the 2003 Turtles enter the Mirage dimension everything's ridiculously gritty and Leonardo is giving voiceover completely in universe.
he shouldnt feel any type of way.. if he wanted the turtles to be the badasses that they were in the beginning he wouldn't have gave the rights to make them kid friendly
In regards to Nickelodeon doing a shit job with releasing this movie DVD, as someone who grew up on Nickelodeon, this was a very common practice for them to essentially release official bootlegs of their shows years back before they licensed them out to Shout Factory; FOP, MLAAT, and so on had this issue in the past, just a heads up
Nick: Nah I don’t really feel like it. I am much focusing on SpongeBob because of money (SpongeBob laugh) Raph: WHAT THE SHELL!! (Angry and punch) Nick: (SpongeBob yell 😱)
Its shocking to learn that the 2003 turtles are the least liked. Cause they have the best writing until the later seasons. It was good with its serious story and had great unique characters.
The haters are probably people who recently got into the series or fans who grew up with the 1987 series and first live action movies, viewing them with rose tinted glasses. Not saying the 1987 series or movies are bad, but the 2003 series is so great that I'm genuinely shocked it doesn't get more respect.
@@FoxsDumbSeriesMaker Or simply the mindless mainstream followers who nowadays dub anything and everything "edgy/tryhard" if it have a darker and mature take on a once more childfriendly and lighthearted show. I for example LOVE the 2003 series especially for that more mature and darker tone.
Their not the least liked. I've heard a lot of people say they don't like the one that came after 2012 and say it's the worst. Either way my favorite will always be 03 even with the later seasons. 2012 was fine at the beginning but didn't keep my attention after the second season.
@@Acacius1992 Yes, that too. Having some edge and seriousness doesn't automatically make something bad. The show had enough color, humour, and lighthearted situations to balance out the more mature themes. I also love the 2003 series and would love to see something done for it next year for its anniversary.
@@RheemQ I'm the opposite for the 2012 series. I found the early stuff was okay but felt that the show got significantly better as it went on. I definitely agree on 2003 being the best, though! Even the "bad" or "filler" episodes were still enjoyable for me to watch. As much as I like it, I can't say the same about 2012. Some of those less interesting episodes were rough.
Turtles Forever in my eyes was a GREAT way to honor the history of TMNT. I really loved this Movie. Overall, TMNT 2003 was & still is my favorite iteration of the Ninja Turtles, and nothing else can top it. I really wanna rewatch this show sometime, and your reviews have boosted my hype for it. Thank you so much, J.
My only problem with turtles forever was leonardo's depiction. after watching a few seasons of the 87 tmnt, raph, donnie and mikey are at least semi-accurate. leo on the other hand was just michelangelo II as if they never saw any of the scenes where leo is a level headed leader with more common sense than the others. it doesn't help that he was voiced by dan green. who used his knuckles voice for him.
@@OctacleEdits 2012 was a fantastic series with some of the best versions of the characters, like Splinter, the Fugitoid, Rat King, etc. There were some very engaging stories, as well. However, I wasn't too keen on the gross and immature humour the earlier seasons were riddled with, along with some of the characters being a bit over the top at times. 2012 never really grew out of that stuff unfortunately. It also ended in kind of a weird way. I do prefer the 2003 series and found at least some enjoyment in even the meh episodes (last two seasons are a different story for the most part). I couldn't say the same for the 2012 series, but when that show was being awesome, it was freakin' awesome.
My only problem with Turtles forever was that it made 80's turtles incompetent clowns. 2003 Turtles are my favorite but i didn't like how 1980's turtles were treated.
@@CopturGobot and that’s what the 2012 series did better. Yes the 2012 Turtles did better when the crossed over with the 80’s Turtles. They treated the 80’s Turtles with respect while still poking fun at the 80’s counterparts goofy aspects
I myself also grew up with the 03 turtles, so it'll always hold a special place for me. I've checked out the other cartoons like the 2012 series and rise. I still need to finish the 87 series. Even looking forward to the movie that rise is getting. I remember playing Mutant Melee and Smash up. Each iteration of TMNT have their strengths and weaknesses and its good to have the option of what you want to see more of with the turtles.
This movie had so many 4Kids voice actors voicing the different versions of the characters. It was really fun recognizing who was voicing who and which Turtle sounded like which other 4Kids character. Best part was Dan Green (Yugi) and Jason Griffith (Sonic) both voicing Leonardo.
That Jason Griffith gets everywhere, from sonic, to tmnt, to chaotic and even a 2016 anime movie. I wonder how it felt to actors getting to play the turtles. It must have been a big honor for them
@@sagittariusseiya8310 One, this isn't a Sonic video, two, they're not coming back save Pollock who never left, and three, Amy Palant is the worst Tails.
I will give Forever some credit that they did a great job animating the 87 series! As a kid from the 80s, they did great! Sadly...they way they were treated was awful...
That's one thing they had over the 2012 series because I did not like how the 87 series was animated in the 2012 series. It look like a generic flash cartoon.
I’d definitely love a 2nd turtles forever with all of the current incarnations we have, I’d be extremely pleased to see 03 Donatello and 12 Donatello interacting, another dynamic I’d need is rise Leo and interactions with his other counterparts, since he’s considered the odd one out for how distinct his personality is
@@dice9270 well for the 2003 games, there was a few cg cut scenes, though poor in quality. I’d definitely like to see that revisited but modernized. We already have cg 87 as shown in “trans dimensional turtles.” Not sure about rise tbh.
87, 90s, 03, 07, 12, 16, Rise, and 22.. movie and cartoon versions all together and interacting with all their versions villans, and all meeting the b/w comics Turtles would be a Rad crossover, even if it was just the cartoons (80s to 23 Turtles, plus the OG comics Turtles) without the movies versions being in it. It'd be like a Tmnt Battle Royal! That would be sweet!
I really enjoyed the 2003 series, because unlike a lot of other cartoons, it had a good story and tackled some serious issues. I've honestly liked it so much, I couldn't believe that in other series Splinter was a human. It just felt... off. Them just being mutated from the ooze, which had different effects on different creatures was cool. I loved the idea of an alien shredder, but then realizing that there was this demonic one too, which was much more powerful. I'm gonna miss this show, and I kinda hope it returns, but with good creative freedom to BE a good story. Tbh, this show reminds me of Teen Titans, which then turned into Teen Titans Go. Of which, I cannot stand because of how childish it is from something that was so serious.
Curious if you ever seen Young Justice or the DCAU Teen Titans. They seem to take the serious aspect of the 2000s Teen Titans while Go took pure comedy. I heavily recommend watching those two especially with Young Justice still making new episodes
Been watching every episode of the retrospective and it’s been a blast. The 2003 turtles were my first experience with the franchise and it brings me back to a more simpler time. I remember watching a few episodes with my mom and she would tell me stories about how she use to watch the 80s turtles with my brother. It’s crazy to think the brand had so much power to connect different generations of fans. I never caught turtles forever until a few years later and I think it was also shown in theaters.
@@giornojoestar4411 Not everyone does. Put it this way - it was necessary, even if it was tremendously watered down compared to the comics, simply because it was made accessible to a very young audience and once it hit the mainstream, Turtle Mania exploded. I really do think if 1987 Turtles didn't happen, the franchise would have fizzled out a long time ago, because it would have stayed an underground cult comic that very few would have known about. It may be annoying to true fans, but it was the first cartoon that got me into the franchise and I will always have a soft spot for it.
@@Longlostpuss Shhshshshshshshshhshshshshhhhhshhhhhhhhh shhhhh. Shh. (I only said that to troll “Professor” Caos because throughout all the other comments on this video, he bashes the 2003 series and mocks its fans, and was being a giant bootie sandwich about people’s tastes, probably just some edgy boomer who can’t have other people enjoy stuff that isn’t what he grew up with.
Still hoping for a TMNT 2003 Complete series till this day. It had these great moments and the love and care that's unlike any cartoons I have watched as a kid. Exaggerating I know, but I just can't get it outta my head, even over 15 years later.
A few years ago I got tired of waiting and made my own. Seasons 1, 2, 5, and 6 used the official DVDs, but everything else was put onto dual-layered DVD-Rs, which holds about 13 episodes per disc.
One thing I would like to brush up on, is in the director's cut of the deleted scenes, for Turtles' Forever. In the scene where Shredder grabs the original '84 Turtles, even though he is killing off the Turtles' Universe, it is affecting him too. At one point, he starts to feel the affects, of fading out of existence, which causes him to loosen his grip, and eventually get what was coming to him, in the end! Even though Karai tried to talk him out of it, it was the affects that he was feeling, that caused him to stop doing when he was doing, not Karai! If he would have killed the Turtles' Universe, he would have killed himself as well! Which poses another question: How would Shredder, been able to pull killing off the Turtles' Universe, without killing himself, & the other incarnations of him? I guess he didn't realize, that his tie in with the Turtles', was always going to be something he had to worry about, as long as he, had the feud with Splinter. So technically, the only person that Shredder can blame, is himself! Think about that!
One of my best friends worked on the tail end of this series as an intern and was promoted during the making of this movie. It launched his career in animation (which he's still doing today) and he says this is still the coolest thing he's ever done, working on a Ninja Turtles show.
When the 2012 TMNT series did its Cross over with the 1987 series, I PRAYED that we would get a crossover with 2003 series. Since the differences between the Utrom Shredder and the 2012 Shredder were so minimal, I was hoping they would bring back the Demon Shredder to really amp up the stakes to have the need for two teams of Turtles, since the amulets required for the dragon transformation were destroyed. Also, considering the 2003 turtles would at this point be adults and not teenagers, they could give the younger 2012 group some nice tidbits. Have 03 Leo teach about leadership, 03 Donny how to dream big and think on your feet, 03 Raph gives some tips on how to chanel one's anger, and both Mikeys learning tips and tricks from each other.
Funny when you talk about voices, that you don't mention that 1987 Raphael's voice is now Donatello in the 2012 version (both acted by Rob Paulsen). That was actually quite an easter egg for old school fans.
It warms my heart that there still so many fans who acknowledge this show. The 2003 series was my first exposure to the franchise, been a fan ever since. It may not be the most iconic or most talked about version of the TMNT but, at has to be the most important one. It revitalized the franchise after nearly a decade and helped the brand stay relevant for years after. TMNT maybe be as big as it is because of the 2003 series and that's something to be happy about. Awesome retrospective J, I didn't expect anyone to put so much effort into researching the Turtles franchise as much as you! Great job and keep content like this coming!
I adored this entire retrospective series. You actually got me decently back into the TMNT franchise, which I hadn’t really even thought much about since I was around 12 years old. I even started my own full rewatch of the 2003 series thanks to your retrospective not too long ago. Can’t wait to see what’s next for both your channel and the Turtles.’
I couldn’t have said it better myself. The 03 show saved the brand from being trapped in the past. And for that, all the changes that were made, it seems to have been slept on quite a bit. Totally unique style of music and art has been a big inspiration for me personally. The love I have for it will never die, and I hope others really give it a chance.
Oh wow.. we Turtles fans are so Sectarian and divided, arguing which was the best and official when it really isn't true. 87 03 & 12, They ALL had and have their pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses.. except for Rise and Mayham if what they'd released so far is true. Then I think we can come together and agree that these last two suck and should be redone right. At least there aren't any horrid changes with our Beloved Tmnt from 1987 2003 & 2012 iterations as they're trying to get away with now.
I remember of enjoying "TMNT: Turtles Forever" from my childhood, and that I'm glad you enjoy this animated film very much. I still hope you can check out Batman Vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film as one of best crossover of all time.
These 8 videos are the greatest pieces of content on the 2003 series in the history of the internet. Best stuff since DrDrinkX10s old 1987 v 2003 series circa 2010. Thanks, brother
Thanks man! This comment really put a smile on my face, since I've seen your videos too. I think it was your Shredder video that made me go back and watch the show again in 2020, really reignited the passion I have for it. I also loved Classic TMNT vs New TMNT, I was on the edge of my seat when I first saw that back in 2012.
2012 tmnt was surprisingly great. i absolutly loved it. from the music to the stylized running on the rooftops. it was great. then they brought in the mutanimals! great stuff
But, how would a crossover between the 2012 and the 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series’ play out? Who would be the main villain of the crossover?
As someone who's never given TMNT more than a passing glance my whole life, these videos were very entertaining and informative. I feel like I've gained an appreciation for a franchise I've never much interacted with
@WWE , this is true cause i grew up on 2003 series and really liked the 2012 series as well but i can barley watch the 80s series i can enjoy the characters in crossovers like this movie but that's about it i get too bored watching an episode of the 80s show
Its worth checking out if you get the chance. Personally I’d say every main TMNT series is great but it depends on you. Shredders revenge is a fun recent beat em up though and there’s a new movie (animated YES) coming to theaters. Rise of the TMNT is the most recent and just ended. Its great and pretty low barrier of entry (more comical on the surface with shorter episodes though it gets more serious as it continues with great action scenes).
The thing is, Peter Laird's memories *of his own comic* apparently need a refresh. The fact is, the original Mirage comics were actually just as silly and goofy as the 1987 show most of the time. It's just that the FIRST ISSUE was grim and serious and for a long time that was the easiest issue to find (because it was hosted on the official website) and this gave people a skewed perception of the comic. This idea Laird and a lot of people have that the 1987 cartoon took TMNT and made it silly just does not mesh with reality if you go and read the original Mirage run at all. In reality it was goofy with the occasional serious bit up until the first volume ended with the "City at War" arc... a storyline that started in 1992. Actual storylines that happened in the comic: -Casey Jones goes on a crusade to stop people from destroying a plastic restaurant mascot he admired as a kid. -The turtles get involved in a conflict between old superheroes (living in a literal superhero retirement home) and an old enemy who turns out to actually be holding a candle for the female heroine. -a THREE PART storyline involving a time-travelling little girl, first asking the turtles to prevent her from being born a mutant, then herself being tricked into making the human race peaceful so they're easy to conquer. Yeah Laird, the 1987 show is the whole reason people think TMNT is goofy. Sure.
I didn't mind Rise, but growing up with the 2003, and 2012 versions left me wanting for more story, and less gags. As the show felt like the viewer could ignore just about any episode and still know what was going on, as it was there for laughs and memes and not a serious plot. Maybe it got better, and doubled down on the plot but I didn't stick with it that long.
@@proto245 glad it did get better. The audience is usually smarter than shows pander to and while a show aimed for jokes can work it certainly wouldn't be for everyone especially parents watching it with their kids. Myself I probably won't have time to go back and revisit it, I'm barely finding time for shows now.
@@VATROU If you don't find the series good, than at least watch the Rise of The TMNT Movie, it works as a standalone piece enough you don't need the show to enjoy the film, BTW, it features the best Krang ever, I find them to be on par with Ch'rell.
As someone who love and lives TMNT 2003, thank you for this series. It's been heartwarming watching every episode brings back the good memories from my childhood. You have done us TMNT fans a great service and on behalf of everyone, Thank you
Watching this live was such a trip man, so many memories... Thanks for doing this series J, as a 2000s kid myself, I've always been looking for people talking about this show on youtube, only to find very little. You're the best my man!
I think there would always be some division among fans concerning the 2003 and 1987 versions, but there probably would've been less if they had been airing 1987 TMNT reruns on like, ANY of the networks. That includes before 4Kids even made the 2003 one. If the artists needed fans for references, it kinda implies either the 1987 series was either not well preserved or the owners were being stingy in general. We could've easily had the 1987 on on Cartoon Network during the late 90s/early 2000s. Know what they were PLAYING back then when it wasn't like Dexter's Lab or the like? 900 episodes of Tom and Jerry replays from like 1955. And whatever barbara stuff is now on Boomerang. Kids would've loved an action show during that time. And it's not entirely like Cartoon network was allergic to 80s shows during that time. I recall Toonami playing He Man and Thundercats on occassion. It was weird in contrast to the animes they were showing, but they weren't afraid to show them. Idk, maybe the 1987 owners just thought "This isn't making toy money anymore, why bother?" like a bunch of other 80s shows. Hell to this day I've seen more of Transformers Armada and Energon than I ever did the original show. And the shows I just named don't even show up anymore anywhere.
Something kinda like that happened in Canada, the original series got played on Teletoon retro from 2012 till the network ended in 2015. Kinda wish there where more channels that did only reruns of older cartoons like it, the network had other kinds of shows like the g1 Transformers, GI Joe, lonny toons, and even Power Rangers.
Man what a Retrospective. I had a fun time watching and this series brought back a lot of memories of the 03 Turtles for me. I hope it gets released on bluray soon. Seeing a review of the classic series, movies and 2012 series would be nice.
Been here, since the start of the Sonic was Distinct series of videos. So, much has changed since then. When you first started this TMNT retrospective, my Papa, someone who I watched TMNT with religiously (mainly the old 80s versions, which led young me to give the 2003 series a shot), he died on the release of your third video Nov. 30th. These videos surprisingly gained more meaning to me as they went on. It reminded me that while he may be gone the things we enjoyed together, there will always be people for me to enjoy those things with in life. He was a major cartoon buff, and it surprised me that this guy whose in his 40s (he died at age 53), is loving cartoons and its what taught me that I don't have to become a hardened adult and that I can still enjoy kids media. This retrospective and your Sonic one, retaught me that lesson, I had a huge phase of just pure negativity from 2018 - 2021, and I think it was your Sonic 06 review that had me realizing, I should like things because, I like them. Not cause X critic decided for me. Ever since I've been watching these types of videos to gain new insights into the things I've grown up with and liked.
this has been an amazing series of reviews, TMNT 2003 is my favorite TMNT series, and its great to see that others still love it like i do. thank you for all this awesome vids. please keep up the great work COWABUNGA!!
I grew up with 2003 series and barely saw the 90s version as well, and even then I could tell they were mostly satirising their tone and 90s aesthetics rather than faithfully recreating them. But I still had a lot of fun watching it, and could tell there was so much homage to past series even if I couldn't spot them out. Definitely a good way to end the uneven later parts of the series.
So glad I found your series! This show has always been one of my most nostalgic yet underseen shows. These are my Turtles too, and I love them dearly! Thank you for putting so much effort and care into this. Fantastic!
"If the 2003 Turtles came back in some new thing and they were seen as try-hard edgelords, I would not be happy" Kinda how I felt about the 2003 Titans in _Teen Titans vs Teen Titans Go!_
A good chunk of the character problems stop after both Titans leave the tower (in fact I would argue the characterization was fine *before* they ended up in the tower). After that, the worst thing is the whole portion with OG Trigon and the soda, which has the opposite problem of being too comedic considering we're talking about fucking *Trigon!* There is still moments of characterization that suck (particularly "my mouth won't animate that big"). But the characterization clears up a *lot* is what I'm saying
A lot of my childhood and early teenage years were with these turtles. Plus, I love me some ratchet and Clank! Both are some of my favorite series representing more innocent time of life. But it’s going to take the nostalgia goggles off and see things for what they really are and still appreciate them
Turtles forever is such a big part of my childhood I still love the story but I will admit the 80’s turtles should’ve been treated better. Nevertheless this retrospective was a surprise and I definitely want to see you talk about tmnt more in the future
26:18 this part of the video hit me huge with nostalgia. I remember seeing this clip on one of the dvd behind the scenes and i vividly remember thinking it was cool that someone that looked like me was sketching out a turtle. A kinda bizarre case of representation but so awesome at the same time
Thanks for a solid retrospective. I started rewatching the series in early 2019 when the pandemic first started but I fell off mid season 4 due to unforseen circumstances. I saw Turtles Forever at a local DVD shop and picked it up to only get right back into the series maybe a month before you did your season 4 video. Needless to say it was nice hearing your thoughts on every season while I was also watching them just to get different perspectives. Solid review man can't wait to see what else you produce
Just binged the whole video series today, brought back a ton of mixed nostalgia for both the Turtles and the DCAU Retrospective days and was super well done overall.
I can't thank you enough for this retrospective 2003 TMNT is my favorite version as well And this retrospective series is a love letter to that animated series When you analyze turtles forever you realise it has a lot of flaws so the best thing to do is to stop nitpicking and just enjoy it for what it is , a love letter to the hole franchise ( as you mentioned ) Although each incarnation of TMNT is loved by a lot of people and hated by a lot of people But overall we are TMNT fans and have our own reason to love this franchise
I know this video is two years old, but I *HAVE* to stress- give Rise of the TMNT a chance. I didn't want anything to do with it either when it came out. And I heavily regret it. Saberspark said it best; We failed them. And now I wish Rise got more seasons that it deserved. Even the movie for it is something amazing. I grew up with the 2k3 series, saw all the seasons. I have to agree with you on a lot in this video. I also wanted to share that IDW is getting ready to release a new "Turtles Forever" in a way that includes ALL the OG boys; 84, 87, 2k3, 2k12 and, of course, Rise. I really hope you see this comment and choose to look into all this, because, it is well worth the time and energy spent.
They then did it again with the 2012 3D one. Like the same concept and everything. However my favorite part is a toss up between when the '03 turtles meet up with '87 Splinter for a cup of tea and a breath of sanity, or the scene with both Dons trying to fix the thing. '03 Don spouting tech jargon while '87 is mumbling a sing-song in panic.
This series has been a blast thank you for so much context, nostalgia blast and personality with so much content/footage As some one that was born in 1993, people in my age range/group are stuck being to young for 80s and early 90s nostalgia and to old to appreciate 2000s child like nostalgia at least that is what I have found . I on the other hand am very different from others born in 1993, I have a half brother 10 years older then me and a half sisters 7 years older .Growing up I was not dirt poor per say but neglected enough and poor enough not to get what I wanted or have interests in (at least until I got older and found ways to make my own money) . The things I can remember growing up from as young as I can remember were literally all hand me downs from those older siblings from the 80s/early 90s that includes older shows boot legs on vhs like the turtles ,he man , transformers so to me you could say I "grew up" out of my generation having huge appreciation for all things 80s/90s/2000s. Hell I even grew up very young playing on Sega megadrive while most kids my age had a ps 1 or at least Nintendo 64 so I have a strong appreciation and love for sonic 2 and 3 / any thing before my time. With that being said I do remember this show being on in the mornings before school and living in Australia we had a program called Cheez TV that would start around 6:30-7:00 am where two funny personality's would do bits/sketches in segments then show a cartoon each 30 min mark for 90 mins ending just before school started, that later would become Toasted TV 2005 ish. (Any 90s Aussie kid will tell how much Cheez TV was the shit and made up 90% our childhood) Most kids routine before school would be get up turn on channel 10 and watch the aerobics babes for 15 mins get your cereal then get ready for 90 mins of cartoons and Jade/Ryan being hilarious in between cartoons while doing what ever the fuck you need to before school. This is where Australia's 90s kids and teen generation was able to watch not just western cartoons but also Dubbed Japanese anime like Dragon Ball Z , Sailor moon and Pokemon/Digimon! PS. Digmon pisses all over Pokemon , You can all fight me on that. Call me childish or strange but weirdly I would follow this routine through high school and seen a lot of the 2000s cartoons as well , Get up 6ish watch the aerobics babes then get angry mad / sad that its now toasted TV with Jade/Ryan being replaced with new people every few months and shitty 2000s bits sketches then watch 2000s cartoons and barley make the 8:45 am public bus to high school. Legit did this through to 2010 when I graduated ahaha ! So I do have fond memory's of this show and never knew all this extra drama or missing seasons/movie existed all we ever got in the mornings were the first 2-3 seasons then out of no where the turtles in time season ( I didn't mind it but definitely could tell it was way more childish at the time BUT Leos swords were cool and I liked his double sheath over one shoulder more then the cross sheathing.) So it has been quite the ride learning all this while you hit us with member berries thanks once again cant wait to see what other things you cover with the same style and editing .
So I loved 2003 series and watching this helped me remember. Yes I agree the plot took an annoying turn. I was sad they did them dirty and I was upset 2012 didn’t bring them in either. I really liked rise and was upset no one gave it a chance because of the “look” and how Raph was the leader at first. I hope the movie helps round everything out
This video series was beyond excellent. I was hit with a truck of nostalgia on a series I used to love but had entirely forgotten. Your points were very well phrased and researched.
Really awesome retrospective series! So my history of this series started with watching re-runs of the 2003 show on Cartoon Network. Didn’t watch that many episodes but I loved what I was watching. Then I remember watching the commercials for Turtles Forever. I was shocked learning there was an 80s series. I was shocked there was an entire franchise outside the 2003 show. I watched Turtles Forever when it originally aired and pretty much enjoyed it. I agree they were too hard on the 87 Turtles but overall it was a great tribute. It sucks the 2003 show has been pretty much forgotten and ignored in the years since but hopefully they will return one day like you said.
I'm very glad you did this series, as despite loving this show as a kid there was a lot of even basic stuff here that I had no idea about, like the hidden 5th season which I feel like I recall seeing an episode or two of once but then nothing else, really brought a lot of memories back and I can't thank you enough for that.
I have a disclaimer to make. I grew up on and loved the 87 series. However when I started watching the 03 series I loved it. I felt it was THE quintessential series. It was the series I "remembered" not the one I grew up on. It was fantastic and well written/acted. When I heard about the 2012 series I wanted NOTHING to do with it at first. Afterall, how could NICK produce something even remotely as good as the 2003 series. I sat through a few episodes when they aired and was surprised at the heart, action, humor and...to an extent...nostalgia. I felt. The 87 series was light hearted, funny, and full of camp, the 03 series was darker, more serious, more action packed. The 2012 series found the same balance Nick found with Avatar the Last Airbender. It was light hearted and funny when it could be...but the show writers were ALLOWED to let the show take it self seriously, and did so quite a bit. They weren't afraid to go to some pretty dark places (for nick) and they weren't afraid to deal with the fallout from those events. I wouldn't say the 2012 series REPLACES 03 as the best series. but it might be the most...BALANCED...version. It legitimately felt like a near perfect hybridization of the 87 and 03 series' and I hope you find the time to review it. But for now, I have found and come to enjoy your channel thanks to these reviews. You have earned a new subscriber and I wish you and your channel nothing but the best for the future.
Turtles Forever actually reminds me a lot of the semi-recent Teen Titans Go vs. Teen Titans, in that that movie didn't really get the original TT series either. It was actually the complete opposite issue the 87 turtles had, they were portrayed more goofy forgetting they could be pretty competent, whereas the original Teen Titans were portrayed way too seriously forgetting they could be goofy sometimes too. In both cases it made me think we aren't actually seeing the actual retro universe, but instead we're seeing what people THINK the retro universe is like.
Wow what a great retrospective I never watched the 2003 show fully through, but It's the turtles I liked best from my childhood. I guess the 2003 turtles just appealed to my demographic more than the classic turtles and especially the newer turtles that came after it. I defiantly put a few hours into the first season video game on the GameCube with some friends. Thanks for the nostalgia trip, I learned a lot from theses videos.
I loved this whole retrospective series, it was well made and a ton of fun to watch. Brought up memories too, I grew up watching the 2003 series along with some of the '87 series on VHS. The Lost Episodes and Turtles Forever were things I remember being really excited for as a kid. Even taped the first airing of Turtles Forever on a spare VHS tape, the in-between bumpers are permanently seared into my head now from constant rewatches. Thank you for making this, it's nice to hear people talking about the series again.
I always view Turtles Forever is noncanon due to the whole multiverse thing, and I enjoy it a lot more I think. Overall though, the thing that holds the movie back is the anticlimactic ending to the Shredder. Like why is it that for the grand finale the death of the Shredder isn't caused by all of the turtles working together, but instead Bebop and Rocksteady being idiots? Between this and the crossovers of the 2012 series, I really couldn't say which one is better tho, as they each have issues that hold em back.
In regards to the 87 turtles being out of character for Turtles Forever, that is a tough work around when writing crossover TMNT fics that's just the TMNT franchise when 87 is included with 03 but I've found workarounds. In one fic I'm putting out, the reason behind them acting out of character in Turtles Forever is due to their meta awareness. They take things more seriously in their own show because it's their world & everyone just sort of knows it's just a show so they do their roundabouts of everything but when they traverse the multiverse, they love trolling their counterparts because they know at the end of the day, they'll win so might as well just have fun with it. I especially leaned into the trolling for Donatello like he was screwing around with 2012 Donnie when they were attempting to fix a machine & later when they're at the bar in the Rise lair, 87 Donatello is making Shirley Temples for whoever sits there & requests a drink so 2012 Donnie & 2012 April are enjoying some Shirley Temples with one another while chatting with 2003 Leo when Rise Mikey has a fit on someone in his space so he demands Donatello leaves & he's just like, "whatever you say, Little Kitchen Wizard." He referred to 2012 Donnie as Mr. Wizard earlier in the fic so he gets a little salty on him recycling the name but then Leo points out that he calls his own Donny Mr. Wizard which results in a silly little spat which Donatello is enjoying watching unfold. I have so much fun including the 87 turtles in fics because they are more silly, when you know your life is just a TV show, might as well have fun with it.
Thank you for making this retrospective. It was really nice to find other fans of this show, and you really helped fill in some of the background for me about some of the things that I knew were true, but didn't know why. I just finished watching Turtles Forever in what I think is the first time in a decade (and perhaps my third time overall?). I had basically perfect timing the first time I watched the series - I started watching it online in September/October of 2009, and was basically right on time to catch the last Back to the Sewer episodes and Turtles Forever as they premiered. It's kind of funny - I agree with basically every point you made about Turtles Forever, and I totally sympathize with the '87 show fans (I've barely seen it and even I can tell that the '87 Turtles are grossly mischaracterized). Turtles Forever is definitely flawed. But when I'm actually watching it, it doesn't really matter. I guess I'm just too happy to have one last romp with these characters I love. Plus, watching Hun losing his mind over '87 Raph breaking the fourth wall always makes me laugh.
I've been a massive fan of TMNT for as long as I can remember. I used to watch the 80's show and the 2003 show with my nan, I had a bunch of my dad's comicbooks of the original Turtles and of the 80's cartoon Turtles, I remember specifically a comicbook version of the time the Turtles find a guy with a magical pencil, as well as an Usagi Yojimbo crossover and one where the Turtles go to a very trippy and vibrant alien planet. I used to have Lego of the 2003 Turtles, action figures of all kinds of the 2003 Turtles including some that could transform into regular turtles, action figures that my dad kept from when he was a kid. I used to rent the 2003 beat-em-up games from the local Blockbuster, I got the CG Movie and Smash-Up games for my birthday after they came out. Basically, this retrospective series has been a whole ride and I'm just so happy that someone put so much effort into making something like this. Something I think interesting is that Eastman and Laird are apparently working together again, Eastman had split off from TMNT and owned Heavy Metal for some time before recently jumping back in with his old partner. Stan Sakai, the creator of Usagi Yojimbo, is seemingly still doing his series to this day. The realest Graymuzzle Steve Gallacci, of Albedo Anthropomorphics fame and facilitator of the very first appearance of Usagi Yojimbo (In the second issue of Albedo Anthropomorphics as a guest character), is also still alive and doing his own thing, as he has since the 70's.
Turtles Forever & the 03 series are my favorite version of TMNT. I never really watched the 87 series so when i first saw the 87 turtles i never saw the problem with them being so goofy. Also the Mirage turtles in there world where also really great.
The TMNT 2003 show was the show I grew up with, and by far the series I enjoy the most, even the weaker seasons. I did have a few episodes of the 80s series on tape, but honestly as a little kid I didn't even realize they were different shows. I have so many memories with this show as a kid, even though I didn't really get to watch the series in order I still understood enough of what was going on. I can't be exactly sure, but I believe that this show was the first time I encountered the trope of shows pretending to kill off their heroes, only to reveal they actually survived later on. When Karai invaded the lair and seemingly killed off Don, Splinter, Mikey, and Raph, I legitimately thought they were dead, and that Leo was going to have to avenge them, and that might be how the story ended. Of course I found out that wasn't the case and that they all survived, but it's still a memory that sticks with me to this day. I really enjoyed Turtles Forever, and still do, but even I can't deny that the 80s turtles weren't treated the best in the movie. I haven't seen a ton of the original show, but they did deserve more respect than they got. Fortunately it's not all bad, Shredder and Kraang seem pretty in character, and there's the scene with the 80s Splinter that always warms my heart. However I do feel like the bad scenes kind of outweigh the good (there's a lot more neutral scenes than either though, mostly the fight scenes), like the 80s turtles dropping their weapons, and running like cowards when the original comic turtles show up. I can't really blame any 80s turtle fans for being kind of upset at this, I don't think it ruins the movie, but it is a negative against it. The last thing I want to bring up is that, I don't really agree with your assessment on the "meta narrative" as you call it. I don't think the intention of Shredder seeing the turtle multiverse was to realize his destiny was to be beaten, rather that if he were to try to conquer every universe like he planned originally, that he would have to face these foes over and over and over every time, and that eventually they might beat him. So he came to the conclusion that the only way to ensure his victory was to destroy the prime turtles, erasing all the others from existing. I dunno I just don't think it's as meta as you think, rather than "I'm destined to lose" he saw it as a never ending battle, so he decided to cut it short. But that's just my opinion of course.
Honestly, I wish Nick, after acquiring the franchise, had been convinced to get together the original voice cast to dub over the 80's group, maybe changing a line here and there. Simply having the original cast there would have made the movie work so much better.
With at least 4 cartoons under its belt, I'd love to see a Turtles Forever style crossover with all of them just as a big love letter to the entire series. It'd be cool to see different takes on the team, their villains, their allies, etc. April definitely gets different with each incarnation, I'd also love to see each Splinter meet each other since the 03 one was Yoshi's pet while the 87 Splinter was Yoshi so I always thought that'd be interesting to see them interact and see how 03 Splinter felt about a counter part to his master becoming him. There is just so much interesting potential there so long as they give each series respect. The 03 Turtles are my turtles, I don't think I have ever seen an episode of 87 or 2012 or the most recent one which seemed kind of dumb to me but if they ever did a 4 way crossover between all these series in some way, give each of them the respect they deserve. Whether they were great or terrible, they still kept the brand alive, they still have their fans. As long as they didn't kill interest in the franchise, there is no reason to disrespect them.
The end of this retrospective addressed my only gripes with the TMNT franchise which is that so much lip service is done to the '87 show and not much else for other versions of the turtles themselves. I get why. That's the version most people started with and are familiar with. I just wish the version I started with which was the 2K3 version got more recognition which I'm glad you did this retrospective. You showed that this show got more love than I thought when It was airing. Thanks for doing this It was fun. Now excuse me I got TMNT video games to catch up on.
Fun fact. The 2000 series was under one of the creator power. Like Lairds made every choice and he expressed that he didn't like the 1980's cartoons. So the 80's turtles treatment can be seen as Lairds hating them. Edited; And this was before 10:23. 😅
When you mentioned that there was an extended version of this movie, I got genuinely angry, thinking I'd somehow been ripped off back when I bought my DVD copy shortly after it first came out... until you started talking about the scenes left out, specifically the scene with Kairi arriving at the Techo-Drome and explaining how she'd tracked The Shredder there. I mentally blanked at that because I was like "wait. That scene's in the extended cut? But... that scene's in the version *I* have." So, unknowingly, I managed to nab a copy of the extended version and saw that for my Turtles Forever experience... which explains why I couldn't relate to so many people during those months after its release, since those angriest at the movie had seen the shorter version, while I'd seen it in its entirety.
This series of vids brought me to your channel, and I've watched a bunch of your back catalogue since. These were my turtles too, and they mean a great deal to me. I'm super happy somebody like you came along and did such a loving, dedicated look at this part of one of my favourite franchises. Thanks for that. Cowabunga.
After watching god knows how many hours of your content, from this, your Metal Gear videos, and the DCAU videos, I honestly am surprised and ashamed that I haven't subscribed yet. Your content is awesome.
2003 was the first version of the TMNT I ever saw. When I asked my parents for TMNT on DVD, it was those I asked for, but my parents bought me the 1987 version, not knowing better. I told a teacher at my school about it, and suddenly we were a group of people from different generations talking and geeking out over TMNT. That was in 2008. My TMNT love is now back in full force, in a way it haven't been for years, and it's amazing to see how my niece is taking an interest in them now.
Thank god the algorithm put the first part of your retrospective in my recommended back when you only had 3/8 parts done. It's been a hell of a ride listening to you discuss the version of the Turtles that many of us grew up watching. Hope to see your channel keep growing even after this review series is now over.
I didn't even know forever was a thing. This series has been fun to watch though, as my experience with the tmnt franchise has been mostly the 2003 series growing up and the arcade game is awesome.
I'm in this position where I fell in love with the turtles after the fact. The main two shows I watch are 2003 and 2012 because I watched 2003 when I first started getting into it and was there as most of the 2012 series was being released (from about midpoint season 2 onward I watched). I did like rise but I think that what happened to it was a bit unfair. They should remake turtles forever with more of the turtle-verses in it. Maybe not every turtles, but at least the four sets of turtles from the shows.
I enjoyed it. But I can absolutely see why many fans of the 80’s Turtles series would have issue with it. I feel like the 2012 show did a better job with their crossover while treating the 80’s turtles with respect.
Thanks a bunch for running through this series and bringing more attention to it. It made me rewatch through it along with the reviews and this will forever be my favorite iteration of the turtles.
The 2012 show is a slow starter, but it's honestly pretty great in the long run, it's a good half-way between the 80s turtles and the 03 turtles in the early seasons, but the later seasons can honestly get darker than even the 03 series at its own darkest moments. I highly recommend you watch the show, it honestly surprised me how good it was when I finally watched it.
I respect that but honestly I can't stand more than 5 minutes of the 2012 version. The tone and characters are way too goofy. It feels like every turtle is a version of Michelangelo... when Michelangelo was 5.
@@JAYDOG1337A Yes, and because of your comment I chose a random episode (a two parter in fact) in the third season and tried to watch it. The tone was still goofy so I went back to make my comment. You can maybe argue that when the plot picks up the tone gets serious but I'm not comfortable having such a tone for filler episodes either.
Thank you for your work. I enjoyed this entire 2003 TMNT retrospective series. I grew up with the '80s Turtles (to be accurate, I'm a '90s kid but I grew up watching re-runs of the '80s series in the '90s), had the giant size toys and Turtle Van (then called the "Party Wagon") that were hand-me-downs from my older brother, had the TMNT video game on the OG Nintendo (NES) system, and also had both the 1990 movie and 1991 _Secret of the Ooze_ on VHS cassette tape that I wore out from watching it so much lol. To this day the TMNT 1990 film is in my top favorite films and imo is one of the best comic to cartoon to live-action adaptations. They did their own thing with respect (changing Raph's character to the rough troubled rebellious brother was one of the greatest things & improvements to happen to his character) while also keeping elements of it mature & serious the way the comics were but also fused into the 1980s turtles image and popularity; perfectly balanced. As a kid I loved Secret of the Ooze and the opening scene always makes me crave pizza, but over time and now as an adult I value the original film much higher and love that one more and hold it as the best TMNT movie to date. The suits still hold up and yes there are minor flaws with the mouth movements but Jim Henson and his team's puppetry and art is masterful - especially with Master Splinter. To this day I can still put it on and have it playing on repeat in the background while I do work, quoting every line word for word. The 2003 TMNT is my favorite interation of animated turtles (so far), I watched it through highschool (found it via re-runs circa 2008) and I was happy with the serious direction they went in (Leo's story arc after being defeated pulled me in) because that's my style of turtles I prefer, along with a threatening Shredder, as well as when they take the teachings of martial arts serious.. but I honestly have faint memory of the later seasons (season 5 onward) except for _Fast Forward_ and _Back to the Sewers_ confusing me when I found out about it being a thing (i.g April's redesign, which only started growing on me due to this video). I learned more about the two aforementioned (Fast Forward and Sewers) through your reviews. I did enjoy _Turtles Forever_ for what it was, enjoyed the references and easter eggs, and they recreated the art style of the '80s turtles perfectly, but I personally did not like how "dumbed down" the '80s turtles were. Sure, they were a light-hearted children's cartoon at the time in their popularity but they weren't like the Turtles Forever version clueless and annoying. I'd say Power Rangers' _Forever Red_ TV event special did the respected homage to several eras thing better. I haven't fully watched the 2012 Nickelodeon turtles but always see praise and good things about it, and while I don't plan on watching _Rise of the TMNT_ take on the turtles I do admire the animation and hopefully we get more of that anime/sakuga style with TMNT fight scenes going forward - it looks pretty damn good and the turtles deserve that level of animation when showing off their martial arts. Personally, I understand that _Rise_ is probably not for me (the humor feels too Teen Titans Go-esque for my liking) and that's fine. Like you mentioned in your video here, there will always be a new interaction of turtles for a new generation. I've recently began reading the 2020 TMNT IDW comics on & off which I'm enjoying so far and I think would be a great series to adapt into animation (in Sophie Campbell's art style). It was interesting hearing your thoughts, perspective, and opinions on the entire animated 2003 TMNT series since you grew up on that version/era. Again, thank you for your retrospect series, the research you done, and I'm looking forward to the next in this series.
I had seen some of 87 turtles before this point and this movies portrayal of them never bothered me much. Granted in both instances of watching the show and this movie it was years apart and I was really young so my sensibilities for out of character stuff wasn't quite there. Though I guess it's just not consuming as much of 87 as 03 as well, as they're the turtles i grew up on, I'd have noticed if they were kinda all morphed to having the same personality real quick, so I see where 87 heads are coming from. But anyway, as you said, as a celebration of the turtles brand (that existed at the time) it was a great fun time
Plus, 2003 series was _finished._ so... you can understand them being a little possessive about THEIR version being done, when comparing it to the one that would always, always have a greater legacy no matter what they did. It would be strange if they didn't take some potshots at the old show.
Glad to see the results of your labor bare fruit, J! I know you worried that if you diverged from what got your channel that you would lose views, so I'm glad to see that you've been able to maintain and maybe even grow just by doing what you like. I may not follow EVERY subject you do, but you always have my support to do it- your love for your subjects is what makes your videos so fun to watch.
I've been looking forward to this video but I have to admit I'm not a really big fan of Turtles forever. While it's not necessarily a bad TV special it essentially craps all over the old Turtles and just pretends that they don't have any real skills and need to be trained by the 03 Turtles despite the 87 turtles being legitimate badasses as early as the first episode of the 87 series. They could have honored both shows without belittling the older show.
@@Lobsterwithinternet yeah he definitely has a hate boner for the 87 show. That's also why we have Toca and Rahzar as the villains in the second movie because they refused to allow any of the TV show villains into the live action films at the time.
I love how the original grey turtles are so intimidating they even scare the 2003 shredder
Well there’s a reason why there isn’t a Mirage (Grey) Shredder
@@lordpicklenips3407 I thought he came back at some point
@@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster Yeah, OG Mirage Shredder comes back after dying in the rooftop fight but the OG turtles do eventually kill him for good.
@@lordpicklenips3407 Theres lady shredder
@@lordpicklenips3407 Uiu
The 2003 turtles was pretty much the first serious show I ever watched and I got super invested in it. I still have my box of figures from the show in a drawer somewhere. Unlike other franchises from my childhood I didn't really keep up with the series because I was pretty sure none of the new versions could compare to these guys. This retrospective was a super fun time to watch and a trip down memory lane thanks for making it
when i became turtles fan, it was because i saw glimpses of 2003 show on tv and i fell in love with everything about it
after a while i finaly got to watch the show and i soon realised how awersome it is, i was hooked on every story, altough i only watched untill end of season 1, except the part where turtles flee newyork, and from season 2 saw bare minimum, at best the civil war between foot, purple dragons and mafia
edit: it is also because of this, that as a kid, i hated 1987 turtles, finding them boring, too kid friendly, imature and pointless
What do you think about the 2012 series
the only the way all the versions of the Turtles would be erased from Existence Is If Shredder killed Daredevil since he Inspired the Turtles
No it wasn’t
Nope false
This series has been nothing short of fantastic. Brought so many memories back while keeping us informed. Thanks J!
Agreed😁
It was shite
Agreed
I love the ending forth wall moment of this movie, where Eastman and Laird are finishing the first issue, and are just like, "I hope it sells." This franchise had such humble beginnings, it will always be endearing to me.
I learned they picked the name Mirage Studios as there was no studio at the time, just 2 guys drawing at a table, so the studio was just in their heads
a funny thing i notice in that scene is that laird refered the comic as "the first issue" but in reality when they were making it it was intended as a one off comic and only became an on going series after it was released.
Very charming humble beginnings. Fitting for a series based on the, simple yet endearing, idea of teenage mutant ninja turtles.
I like Turtles Forever, it’s a great send off for the 2003 series.
And even though I haven’t seen the 80’s cartoon I do empathise with fans who loved that version get so poorly represented in this.
It’s strange that this special is simultaneously a fun celebration of the franchise & also disrespectful & cynical towards one of if not the most popular iteration.
I'm guessing it's because the '80 cartoon gave the masses the impression that it was THE definitive TMNT simply for being the first big piece of TMNT media and made them think the 2003 version was a faux-edgy bastardization. Just like how Sega of America misrepresented '90s Sonic The Hedgehog unbeknownst to the larger West and thus catalyzed the initial backlash to Sonic Adventure. They made people want a lie.
But looking at this more closely, it becomes clear that total faithfulness to ANY incarnation of TMNT was never the point of TF. Each cast was purposely flanderized to act like a hybrid of themselves and their fans, with the Splinters being the voices of reason. The whole point is that multiple incarnations of a franchise world can be valid in their own ways, and if so, it's kind of dumb to fight over which is "the right one". Of course, TMNT never had a certain OTHER problem Sonic had, which is mass retconning worldwide even after the original way was clarified, TRULY officially supplanting one canon with another like people wouldn't notice/care, as what happened with Adventure 2. And there's the issue of wasting storytelling opportunity in order to be commentorial-a pain I feel whenever I think of the Kirby anime. But I'm also not a fan of AU stories in general; I generally see them as copouts in lieu of actual creativity, fanservicey or not. And since TMNT actually started as a parody, perhaps the route TF took as a franchise-wide satire was the right one.
Turtles forever sucks
@@CarbonRollerCacono
From what I understand, Laird, who was involved with the 2003 version, very much disliked the 1987 cartoon, due to its silliness and how they basically ignored his and Eastman's advice.
I always wondered if the characterization of the 87 Turtles was because of Peter Laird's own feelings towards the first adaptation of his work. Seems like Emilio Lopez speculated the same thing.
This might also explain why the original Mirage Turtles are treated as the most badass Turtle team.
Probably poking fun at those sorts of feelings, too. TMNT itself started as a parody, after all.
@@CarbonRollerCaco Exactly when the 2003 Turtles enter the Mirage dimension everything's ridiculously gritty and Leonardo is giving voiceover completely in universe.
I mean, the OG Mirage TMNT were actual cold-blooded assassins who killed anyone who got in the way of their revenge.
I do also believe at this time Peter Laird had sole ownership of the turtles rights at the time until he sold them to Viacom
he shouldnt feel any type of way.. if he wanted the turtles to be the badasses that they were in the beginning he wouldn't have gave the rights to make them kid friendly
In regards to Nickelodeon doing a shit job with releasing this movie DVD, as someone who grew up on Nickelodeon, this was a very common practice for them to essentially release official bootlegs of their shows years back before they licensed them out to Shout Factory; FOP, MLAAT, and so on had this issue in the past, just a heads up
Maybe the Demon Shredder came from Atlinties
That's unfortunate.
If Nickelodeon is selling their stuff in a pirated format, it's better to pirate their shit too
Nick: Nah I don’t really feel like it. I am much focusing on SpongeBob because of money (SpongeBob laugh)
Raph: WHAT THE SHELL!! (Angry and punch)
Nick: (SpongeBob yell 😱)
Its shocking to learn that the 2003 turtles are the least liked. Cause they have the best writing until the later seasons. It was good with its serious story and had great unique characters.
The haters are probably people who recently got into the series or fans who grew up with the 1987 series and first live action movies, viewing them with rose tinted glasses. Not saying the 1987 series or movies are bad, but the 2003 series is so great that I'm genuinely shocked it doesn't get more respect.
@@FoxsDumbSeriesMaker
Or simply the mindless mainstream followers who nowadays dub anything and everything "edgy/tryhard" if it have a darker and mature take on a once more childfriendly and lighthearted show.
I for example LOVE the 2003 series especially for that more mature and darker tone.
Their not the least liked. I've heard a lot of people say they don't like the one that came after 2012 and say it's the worst. Either way my favorite will always be 03 even with the later seasons. 2012 was fine at the beginning but didn't keep my attention after the second season.
@@Acacius1992 Yes, that too. Having some edge and seriousness doesn't automatically make something bad. The show had enough color, humour, and lighthearted situations to balance out the more mature themes. I also love the 2003 series and would love to see something done for it next year for its anniversary.
@@RheemQ I'm the opposite for the 2012 series. I found the early stuff was okay but felt that the show got significantly better as it went on. I definitely agree on 2003 being the best, though! Even the "bad" or "filler" episodes were still enjoyable for me to watch. As much as I like it, I can't say the same about 2012. Some of those less interesting episodes were rough.
This has been such a great retrospective for the 2003 TMNT
True that! Well said and awesome! Been binging it as an old turtle fan myself!
Agreed!
No it hasn’t
@Professor Caos what makes it bad in your eyes?
@@firestriker3580 why do you think it’s a bad retrospective?
Turtles Forever in my eyes was a GREAT way to honor the history of TMNT. I really loved this Movie.
Overall, TMNT 2003 was & still is my favorite iteration of the Ninja Turtles, and nothing else can top it. I really wanna rewatch this show sometime, and your reviews have boosted my hype for it. Thank you so much, J.
Everything else can top it
@WWE , this is true it seems like most kids will enjoy whichever turtles iteration came out when they were a child
My only problem with turtles forever was leonardo's depiction. after watching a few seasons of the 87 tmnt, raph, donnie and mikey are at least semi-accurate. leo on the other hand was just michelangelo II as if they never saw any of the scenes where leo is a level headed leader with more common sense than the others. it doesn't help that he was voiced by dan green. who used his knuckles voice for him.
@@fireztriker3798 nope
@@fireztriker3798 your have no honor and you hurt Hamato Yoshi!
Can’t wait to see your take on the 2012 one. I still wish 2003 would’ve been done better in its last seasons.
Maybe the Demon Shredder Came from Atlinties
Same, and I was also hoping we’d get crossover between 2k3 & 12 later after the 1987 crossover.
Same
2012 is no doubt the best. When Ciro Nieli is running things you know you’re in for a treat
@@OctacleEdits 2012 was a fantastic series with some of the best versions of the characters, like Splinter, the Fugitoid, Rat King, etc. There were some very engaging stories, as well. However, I wasn't too keen on the gross and immature humour the earlier seasons were riddled with, along with some of the characters being a bit over the top at times. 2012 never really grew out of that stuff unfortunately. It also ended in kind of a weird way. I do prefer the 2003 series and found at least some enjoyment in even the meh episodes (last two seasons are a different story for the most part). I couldn't say the same for the 2012 series, but when that show was being awesome, it was freakin' awesome.
My only problem with Turtles forever was that it made 80's turtles incompetent clowns. 2003 Turtles are my favorite but i didn't like how 1980's turtles were treated.
Yeah no mutual respect was given to the 80s versions
@@CopturGobot and that’s what the 2012 series did better. Yes the 2012 Turtles did better when the crossed over with the 80’s Turtles. They treated the 80’s Turtles with respect while still poking fun at the 80’s counterparts goofy aspects
The 80s turtles are incompetent clowns *when compared to the 03 turtles* - which was the entire point.
@@sora8480 no they aren’t. Swear this is the mentality all y’all 2003 TMNT fanboys have
@@sora8480 did you even watch 80's turtles? They were nothing like those clowns in the movie.
I myself also grew up with the 03 turtles, so it'll always hold a special place for me. I've checked out the other cartoons like the 2012 series and rise. I still need to finish the 87 series. Even looking forward to the movie that rise is getting. I remember playing Mutant Melee and Smash up. Each iteration of TMNT have their strengths and weaknesses and its good to have the option of what you want to see more of with the turtles.
I like your logo look cool
Same. What do you think about the 2012 series and rise?
what are the strengths of Next Mutation?
@@charleswisconsin9196 haven't seen that one so can't say
@@charleswisconsin9196 There are none lol.
This movie had so many 4Kids voice actors voicing the different versions of the characters. It was really fun recognizing who was voicing who and which Turtle sounded like which other 4Kids character. Best part was Dan Green (Yugi) and Jason Griffith (Sonic) both voicing Leonardo.
Jason Griffith, Amy Palant, Lisa Ortiz, Dan Green and Mike Pollock needs to come back this year.
That Jason Griffith gets everywhere, from sonic, to tmnt, to chaotic and even a 2016 anime movie. I wonder how it felt to actors getting to play the turtles. It must have been a big honor for them
@@sagittariusseiya8310 One, this isn't a Sonic video, two, they're not coming back save Pollock who never left, and three, Amy Palant is the worst Tails.
@@CarbonRollerCacopoint 3: wrong. She is better than the mess of performances in Sonic Heroes and Sonic OVA.
I will give Forever some credit that they did a great job animating the 87 series! As a kid from the 80s, they did great! Sadly...they way they were treated was awful...
Agreed
That's one thing they had over the 2012 series because I did not like how the 87 series was animated in the 2012 series. It look like a generic flash cartoon.
@@retrogamer6403 too true!
@@retrogamer6403 well they did change that in the next crossover they did with the 87 turtles.
@@retrogamer6403 They were also represented as inept in battle and I hated that. 2003 made them goofy but at least they can fight.
I’d definitely love a 2nd turtles forever with all of the current incarnations we have, I’d be extremely pleased to see 03 Donatello and 12 Donatello interacting, another dynamic I’d need is rise Leo and interactions with his other counterparts, since he’s considered the odd one out for how distinct his personality is
Man now how da fuck would that work? We'd need cg 2003, and 87, then maybe continue in rise animation?
@@dice9270 well for the 2003 games, there was a few cg cut scenes, though poor in quality. I’d definitely like to see that revisited but modernized. We already have cg 87 as shown in “trans dimensional turtles.” Not sure about rise tbh.
87, 90s, 03, 07, 12, 16, Rise, and 22.. movie and cartoon versions all together and interacting with all their versions villans, and all meeting the b/w comics Turtles would be a Rad crossover, even if it was just the cartoons (80s to 23 Turtles, plus the OG comics Turtles) without the movies versions being in it. It'd be like a Tmnt Battle Royal! That would be sweet!
@@k-dogg9086yesss let's do it!!!! I'd love too see that honestly with all the Turtles Combined
@@dice9270it would be tough
I really enjoyed the 2003 series, because unlike a lot of other cartoons, it had a good story and tackled some serious issues. I've honestly liked it so much, I couldn't believe that in other series Splinter was a human. It just felt... off. Them just being mutated from the ooze, which had different effects on different creatures was cool. I loved the idea of an alien shredder, but then realizing that there was this demonic one too, which was much more powerful. I'm gonna miss this show, and I kinda hope it returns, but with good creative freedom to BE a good story. Tbh, this show reminds me of Teen Titans, which then turned into Teen Titans Go. Of which, I cannot stand because of how childish it is from something that was so serious.
Curious if you ever seen Young Justice or the DCAU Teen Titans. They seem to take the serious aspect of the 2000s Teen Titans while Go took pure comedy. I heavily recommend watching those two especially with Young Justice still making new episodes
Maybe the Demon Shredder was From atlinties
A lot of shows from the 2000's did that.
Splinter as a Human IS a form of Censorship.
@@conradojavier7547 what?
Been watching every episode of the retrospective and it’s been a blast. The 2003 turtles were my first experience with the franchise and it brings me back to a more simpler time. I remember watching a few episodes with my mom and she would tell me stories about how she use to watch the 80s turtles with my brother. It’s crazy to think the brand had so much power to connect different generations of fans. I never caught turtles forever until a few years later and I think it was also shown in theaters.
Nope 87 turtles were awesome
Nope. Turtles forever sucks
@Professor Caos Yes we all do
@@giornojoestar4411 Not everyone does.
Put it this way - it was necessary, even if it was tremendously watered down compared to the comics, simply because it was made accessible to a very young audience and once it hit the mainstream, Turtle Mania exploded.
I really do think if 1987 Turtles didn't happen, the franchise would have fizzled out a long time ago, because it would have stayed an underground cult comic that very few would have known about.
It may be annoying to true fans, but it was the first cartoon that got me into the franchise and I will always have a soft spot for it.
@@Longlostpuss Shhshshshshshshshhshshshshhhhhshhhhhhhhh shhhhh. Shh.
(I only said that to troll “Professor” Caos because throughout all the other comments on this video, he bashes the 2003 series and mocks its fans, and was being a giant bootie sandwich about people’s tastes, probably just some edgy boomer who can’t have other people enjoy stuff that isn’t what he grew up with.
Still hoping for a TMNT 2003 Complete series till this day. It had these great moments and the love and care that's unlike any cartoons I have watched as a kid. Exaggerating I know, but I just can't get it outta my head, even over 15 years later.
Maybe the Demon Shredder came from Atlinties
They haven't made one yet
At least we can still watch it online.
But I do agree with you, caused I'd buy a Complete Blu-Ray of the 2003 Series myself if it was available.
A few years ago I got tired of waiting and made my own. Seasons 1, 2, 5, and 6 used the official DVDs, but everything else was put onto dual-layered DVD-Rs, which holds about 13 episodes per disc.
@@buchiklop110 I recorded the episodes and put Them on my USBs.
One thing I would like to brush up on, is in the director's cut of the deleted scenes, for Turtles' Forever. In the scene where Shredder grabs the original '84 Turtles, even though he is killing off the Turtles' Universe, it is affecting him too. At one point, he starts to feel the affects, of fading out of existence, which causes him to loosen his grip, and eventually get what was coming to him, in the end! Even though Karai tried to talk him out of it, it was the affects that he was feeling, that caused him to stop doing when he was doing, not Karai! If he would have killed the Turtles' Universe, he would have killed himself as well! Which poses another question: How would Shredder, been able to pull killing off the Turtles' Universe, without killing himself, & the other incarnations of him? I guess he didn't realize, that his tie in with the Turtles', was always going to be something he had to worry about, as long as he, had the feud with Splinter. So technically, the only person that Shredder can blame, is himself! Think about that!
One of my best friends worked on the tail end of this series as an intern and was promoted during the making of this movie.
It launched his career in animation (which he's still doing today) and he says this is still the coolest thing he's ever done, working on a Ninja Turtles show.
When the 2012 TMNT series did its Cross over with the 1987 series, I PRAYED that we would get a crossover with 2003 series. Since the differences between the Utrom Shredder and the 2012 Shredder were so minimal, I was hoping they would bring back the Demon Shredder to really amp up the stakes to have the need for two teams of Turtles, since the amulets required for the dragon transformation were destroyed.
Also, considering the 2003 turtles would at this point be adults and not teenagers, they could give the younger 2012 group some nice tidbits. Have 03 Leo teach about leadership, 03 Donny how to dream big and think on your feet, 03 Raph gives some tips on how to chanel one's anger, and both Mikeys learning tips and tricks from each other.
Funny when you talk about voices, that you don't mention that 1987 Raphael's voice is now Donatello in the 2012 version (both acted by Rob Paulsen).
That was actually quite an easter egg for old school fans.
It warms my heart that there still so many fans who acknowledge this show. The 2003 series was my first exposure to the franchise, been a fan ever since. It may not be the most iconic or most talked about version of the TMNT but, at has to be the most important one. It revitalized the franchise after nearly a decade and helped the brand stay relevant for years after. TMNT maybe be as big as it is because of the 2003 series and that's something to be happy about. Awesome retrospective J, I didn't expect anyone to put so much effort into researching the Turtles franchise as much as you! Great job and keep content like this coming!
I adored this entire retrospective series. You actually got me decently back into the TMNT franchise, which I hadn’t really even thought much about since I was around 12 years old. I even started my own full rewatch of the 2003 series thanks to your retrospective not too long ago. Can’t wait to see what’s next for both your channel and the Turtles.’
I couldn’t have said it better myself. The 03 show saved the brand from being trapped in the past. And for that, all the changes that were made, it seems to have been slept on quite a bit. Totally unique style of music and art has been a big inspiration for me personally. The love I have for it will never die, and I hope others really give it a chance.
@Professor Caos …. No?
@Professor Caos Think for yourself you moron
@Professor Caos "If you like 2003 TMNT, you hate 87 TMNT" Only a sith deals in absolutes
It didn’t save the brand from being "trapped" in the past. Nope all false
Oh wow.. we Turtles fans are so Sectarian and divided, arguing which was the best and official when it really isn't true. 87 03 & 12, They ALL had and have their pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses.. except for Rise and Mayham if what they'd released so far is true. Then I think we can come together and agree that these last two suck and should be redone right. At least there aren't any horrid changes with our Beloved Tmnt from 1987 2003 & 2012 iterations as they're trying to get away with now.
I remember of enjoying "TMNT: Turtles Forever" from my childhood, and that I'm glad you enjoy this animated film very much. I still hope you can check out Batman Vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film as one of best crossover of all time.
Maybe the Demon Shredder came from Atlinties
These 8 videos are the greatest pieces of content on the 2003 series in the history of the internet. Best stuff since DrDrinkX10s old 1987 v 2003 series circa 2010. Thanks, brother
Thanks man! This comment really put a smile on my face, since I've seen your videos too. I think it was your Shredder video that made me go back and watch the show again in 2020, really reignited the passion I have for it. I also loved Classic TMNT vs New TMNT, I was on the edge of my seat when I first saw that back in 2012.
Dang, high praise coming from you
Fantastic series, as a huge fan of the 2003 Turtles it's been a treat.
2012 tmnt was surprisingly great. i absolutly loved it. from the music to the stylized running on the rooftops. it was great. then they brought in the mutanimals! great stuff
Fantastic review and retrospective man! This series was fantastic, or as Raph would say, "peachy".
We need A crossover between the 2012 series and the 2003 series.
@@savagedarksider5934 I've actually been working on a retrospective comparing those two shows thoroughly.... both shows are really good
But, how would a crossover between the 2012 and the 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series’ play out? Who would be the main villain of the crossover?
As someone who's never given TMNT more than a passing glance my whole life, these videos were very entertaining and informative. I feel like I've gained an appreciation for a franchise I've never much interacted with
Oh duuuude you have to watch the og, the one, the only the 80s cartoon, gloriusly over the top intro and all.
@WWE , nah I used to watch inspector gadget when I was like 7. I’m 19 now these shows are still fire today.
@WWE , this is true cause i grew up on 2003 series and really liked the 2012 series as well but i can barley watch the 80s series i can enjoy the characters in crossovers like this movie but that's about it i get too bored watching an episode of the 80s show
Its worth checking out if you get the chance. Personally I’d say every main TMNT series is great but it depends on you. Shredders revenge is a fun recent beat em up though and there’s a new movie (animated YES) coming to theaters. Rise of the TMNT is the most recent and just ended. Its great and pretty low barrier of entry (more comical on the surface with shorter episodes though it gets more serious as it continues with great action scenes).
This movie is a huge nostalgia trip for me despite it's faults. Really enjoyed this entire retrospective, and thanks for the hard work!
The thing is, Peter Laird's memories *of his own comic* apparently need a refresh.
The fact is, the original Mirage comics were actually just as silly and goofy as the 1987 show most of the time. It's just that the FIRST ISSUE was grim and serious and for a long time that was the easiest issue to find (because it was hosted on the official website) and this gave people a skewed perception of the comic.
This idea Laird and a lot of people have that the 1987 cartoon took TMNT and made it silly just does not mesh with reality if you go and read the original Mirage run at all. In reality it was goofy with the occasional serious bit up until the first volume ended with the "City at War" arc... a storyline that started in 1992.
Actual storylines that happened in the comic:
-Casey Jones goes on a crusade to stop people from destroying a plastic restaurant mascot he admired as a kid.
-The turtles get involved in a conflict between old superheroes (living in a literal superhero retirement home) and an old enemy who turns out to actually be holding a candle for the female heroine.
-a THREE PART storyline involving a time-travelling little girl, first asking the turtles to prevent her from being born a mutant, then herself being tricked into making the human race peaceful so they're easy to conquer.
Yeah Laird, the 1987 show is the whole reason people think TMNT is goofy. Sure.
I didn't mind Rise, but growing up with the 2003, and 2012 versions left me wanting for more story, and less gags. As the show felt like the viewer could ignore just about any episode and still know what was going on, as it was there for laughs and memes and not a serious plot. Maybe it got better, and doubled down on the plot but I didn't stick with it that long.
Then you seriously missed out as around season 2 afterward it found a clear balance with plot, and comedy.
@@proto245 glad it did get better. The audience is usually smarter than shows pander to and while a show aimed for jokes can work it certainly wouldn't be for everyone especially parents watching it with their kids. Myself I probably won't have time to go back and revisit it, I'm barely finding time for shows now.
i don’t know what people mean when they Rise is good, i literally can’t watch it. I just want a new tmnt series or at least a tmnt cinematic universe
@@ttt9830 I mean I wished 4Kids had TMNT 2003 to make more episodes
@@VATROU If you don't find the series good, than at least watch the Rise of The TMNT Movie, it works as a standalone piece enough you don't need the show to enjoy the film, BTW, it features the best Krang ever, I find them to be on par with Ch'rell.
As someone who love and lives TMNT 2003, thank you for this series. It's been heartwarming watching every episode brings back the good memories from my childhood. You have done us TMNT fans a great service and on behalf of everyone, Thank you
Watching this live was such a trip man, so many memories...
Thanks for doing this series J, as a 2000s kid myself, I've always been looking for people talking about this show on youtube, only to find very little. You're the best my man!
I think there would always be some division among fans concerning the 2003 and 1987 versions, but there probably would've been less if they had been airing 1987 TMNT reruns on like, ANY of the networks. That includes before 4Kids even made the 2003 one. If the artists needed fans for references, it kinda implies either the 1987 series was either not well preserved or the owners were being stingy in general. We could've easily had the 1987 on on Cartoon Network during the late 90s/early 2000s. Know what they were PLAYING back then when it wasn't like Dexter's Lab or the like? 900 episodes of Tom and Jerry replays from like 1955. And whatever barbara stuff is now on Boomerang. Kids would've loved an action show during that time.
And it's not entirely like Cartoon network was allergic to 80s shows during that time. I recall Toonami playing He Man and Thundercats on occassion. It was weird in contrast to the animes they were showing, but they weren't afraid to show them. Idk, maybe the 1987 owners just thought "This isn't making toy money anymore, why bother?" like a bunch of other 80s shows. Hell to this day I've seen more of Transformers Armada and Energon than I ever did the original show. And the shows I just named don't even show up anymore anywhere.
Something kinda like that happened in Canada, the original series got played on Teletoon retro from 2012 till the network ended in 2015. Kinda wish there where more channels that did only reruns of older cartoons like it, the network had other kinds of shows like the g1 Transformers, GI Joe, lonny toons, and even Power Rangers.
The 87 turtles WAS well received.
87 turtles don't do good for Modern TV ratings. They tried years ago. Its a bit too niche. Like Adam West Batman
@@firestriker3580 Only by 1980s standards. It was badly received during the DVD era
@@firestriker3580 They said preserved, not received
Man what a Retrospective. I had a fun time watching and this series brought back a lot of memories of the 03 Turtles for me. I hope it gets released on bluray soon. Seeing a review of the classic series, movies and 2012 series would be nice.
Been here, since the start of the Sonic was Distinct series of videos. So, much has changed since then. When you first started this TMNT retrospective, my Papa, someone who I watched TMNT with religiously (mainly the old 80s versions, which led young me to give the 2003 series a shot), he died on the release of your third video Nov. 30th. These videos surprisingly gained more meaning to me as they went on. It reminded me that while he may be gone the things we enjoyed together, there will always be people for me to enjoy those things with in life. He was a major cartoon buff, and it surprised me that this guy whose in his 40s (he died at age 53), is loving cartoons and its what taught me that I don't have to become a hardened adult and that I can still enjoy kids media. This retrospective and your Sonic one, retaught me that lesson, I had a huge phase of just pure negativity from 2018 - 2021, and I think it was your Sonic 06 review that had me realizing, I should like things because, I like them. Not cause X critic decided for me. Ever since I've been watching these types of videos to gain new insights into the things I've grown up with and liked.
this has been an amazing series of reviews, TMNT 2003 is my favorite TMNT series, and its great to see that others still love it like i do.
thank you for all this awesome vids. please keep up the great work
COWABUNGA!!
I grew up with 2003 series and barely saw the 90s version as well, and even then I could tell they were mostly satirising their tone and 90s aesthetics rather than faithfully recreating them. But I still had a lot of fun watching it, and could tell there was so much homage to past series even if I couldn't spot them out. Definitely a good way to end the uneven later parts of the series.
So glad I found your series! This show has always been one of my most nostalgic yet underseen shows. These are my Turtles too, and I love them dearly! Thank you for putting so much effort and care into this. Fantastic!
"If the 2003 Turtles came back in some new thing and they were seen as try-hard edgelords, I would not be happy"
Kinda how I felt about the 2003 Titans in _Teen Titans vs Teen Titans Go!_
Ugh, I still won't forgive them for breaking their TT Season 6 revival promises.
A good chunk of the character problems stop after both Titans leave the tower (in fact I would argue the characterization was fine *before* they ended up in the tower). After that, the worst thing is the whole portion with OG Trigon and the soda, which has the opposite problem of being too comedic considering we're talking about fucking *Trigon!*
There is still moments of characterization that suck (particularly "my mouth won't animate that big"). But the characterization clears up a *lot* is what I'm saying
Let’s go! What an amazing retrospective series ! Much appreciated for your hard work!
Maybe demon Shredder was From Atlinties
A lot of my childhood and early teenage years were with these turtles. Plus, I love me some ratchet and Clank! Both are some of my favorite series representing more innocent time of life. But it’s going to take the nostalgia goggles off and see things for what they really are and still appreciate them
This is it? This is the end? Thanks J, it’s been a shell of a time!
You always manage to make these series endings very emotional. I'm honestly stoked for what's to come next for your channel.
Turtles forever is such a big part of my childhood I still love the story but I will admit the 80’s turtles should’ve been treated better. Nevertheless this retrospective was a surprise and I definitely want to see you talk about tmnt more in the future
26:18 this part of the video hit me huge with nostalgia. I remember seeing this clip on one of the dvd behind the scenes and i vividly remember thinking it was cool that someone that looked like me was sketching out a turtle. A kinda bizarre case of representation but so awesome at the same time
Thanks for a solid retrospective. I started rewatching the series in early 2019 when the pandemic first started but I fell off mid season 4 due to unforseen circumstances. I saw Turtles Forever at a local DVD shop and picked it up to only get right back into the series maybe a month before you did your season 4 video. Needless to say it was nice hearing your thoughts on every season while I was also watching them just to get different perspectives. Solid review man can't wait to see what else you produce
This retrospective on the 2003 TMNT series was great. You covered the development and history for it really well. Can't wait for the next videos
This was a great feel of nostalgia for me as well, I loved your retrospectives on the 2003 series!
Question will you be doing a retrospective on the 2012 series or Rise of the tmnt?
Another masterful review. Youre one of the best around J, thanks again for all the effort and passion poured in. Keep it up dude
Just binged the whole video series today, brought back a ton of mixed nostalgia for both the Turtles and the DCAU Retrospective days and was super well done overall.
Same
I can't thank you enough for this retrospective
2003 TMNT is my favorite version as well
And this retrospective series is a love letter to that animated series
When you analyze turtles forever you realise it has a lot of flaws so the best thing to do is to stop nitpicking and just enjoy it for what it is , a love letter to the hole franchise ( as you mentioned )
Although each incarnation of TMNT is loved by a lot of people and hated by a lot of people
But overall we are TMNT fans and have our own reason to love this franchise
I'm a big fan of the 2003 TMNT series, so this retrospective has been awesome to watch. I'll look forward to when you do more Turtles stuff.
I know this video is two years old, but I *HAVE* to stress- give Rise of the TMNT a chance. I didn't want anything to do with it either when it came out. And I heavily regret it. Saberspark said it best; We failed them. And now I wish Rise got more seasons that it deserved. Even the movie for it is something amazing.
I grew up with the 2k3 series, saw all the seasons. I have to agree with you on a lot in this video. I also wanted to share that IDW is getting ready to release a new "Turtles Forever" in a way that includes ALL the OG boys; 84, 87, 2k3, 2k12 and, of course, Rise.
I really hope you see this comment and choose to look into all this, because, it is well worth the time and energy spent.
They then did it again with the 2012 3D one. Like the same concept and everything. However my favorite part is a toss up between when the '03 turtles meet up with '87 Splinter for a cup of tea and a breath of sanity, or the scene with both Dons trying to fix the thing. '03 Don spouting tech jargon while '87 is mumbling a sing-song in panic.
This series has been a blast thank you for so much context, nostalgia blast and personality with so much content/footage
As some one that was born in 1993, people in my age range/group are stuck being to young for 80s and early 90s nostalgia and to old to appreciate 2000s child like nostalgia at least that is what I have found .
I on the other hand am very different from others born in 1993, I have a half brother 10 years older then me and a half sisters 7 years older .Growing up I was not dirt poor per say but neglected enough and poor enough not to get what I wanted or have interests in (at least until I got older and found ways to make my own money) .
The things I can remember growing up from as young as I can remember were literally all hand me downs from those older siblings from the 80s/early 90s that includes older shows boot legs on vhs like the turtles ,he man , transformers so to me you could say I "grew up" out of my generation having huge appreciation for all things 80s/90s/2000s.
Hell I even grew up very young playing on Sega megadrive while most kids my age had a ps 1 or at least Nintendo 64 so I have a strong appreciation and love for sonic 2 and 3 / any thing before my time.
With that being said I do remember this show being on in the mornings before school and living in Australia we had a program called Cheez TV that would start around 6:30-7:00 am where two funny personality's would do bits/sketches in segments then show a cartoon each 30 min mark for 90 mins ending just before school started, that later would become Toasted TV 2005 ish.
(Any 90s Aussie kid will tell how much Cheez TV was the shit and made up 90% our childhood)
Most kids routine before school would be get up turn on channel 10 and watch the aerobics babes for 15 mins get your cereal then get ready for 90 mins of cartoons and Jade/Ryan being hilarious in between cartoons while doing what ever the fuck you need to before school.
This is where Australia's 90s kids and teen generation was able to watch not just western cartoons but also Dubbed Japanese anime like Dragon Ball Z , Sailor moon and Pokemon/Digimon!
PS. Digmon pisses all over Pokemon , You can all fight me on that.
Call me childish or strange but weirdly I would follow this routine through high school and seen a lot of the 2000s cartoons as well , Get up 6ish watch the aerobics babes then get angry mad / sad that its now toasted TV with Jade/Ryan being replaced with new people every few months and shitty 2000s bits sketches then watch 2000s cartoons and barley make the 8:45 am public bus to high school.
Legit did this through to 2010 when I graduated ahaha !
So I do have fond memory's of this show and never knew all this extra drama or missing seasons/movie existed all we ever got in the mornings were the first 2-3 seasons then out of no where the turtles in time season
( I didn't mind it but definitely could tell it was way more childish at the time BUT Leos swords were cool and I liked his double sheath over one shoulder more then the cross sheathing.)
So it has been quite the ride learning all this while you hit us with member berries thanks once again cant wait to see what other things you cover with the same style and editing .
I would love to see a "first time viewing" type of show about the 2012 series.
So I loved 2003 series and watching this helped me remember. Yes I agree the plot took an annoying turn. I was sad they did them dirty and I was upset 2012 didn’t bring them in either. I really liked rise and was upset no one gave it a chance because of the “look” and how Raph was the leader at first. I hope the movie helps round everything out
This was a great series! I'm glad I found your channel!
This video series was beyond excellent. I was hit with a truck of nostalgia on a series I used to love but had entirely forgotten. Your points were very well phrased and researched.
Really awesome retrospective series! So my history of this series started with watching re-runs of the 2003 show on Cartoon Network. Didn’t watch that many episodes but I loved what I was watching. Then I remember watching the commercials for Turtles Forever. I was shocked learning there was an 80s series. I was shocked there was an entire franchise outside the 2003 show. I watched Turtles Forever when it originally aired and pretty much enjoyed it. I agree they were too hard on the 87 Turtles but overall it was a great tribute. It sucks the 2003 show has been pretty much forgotten and ignored in the years since but hopefully they will return one day like you said.
I'm very glad you did this series, as despite loving this show as a kid there was a lot of even basic stuff here that I had no idea about, like the hidden 5th season which I feel like I recall seeing an episode or two of once but then nothing else, really brought a lot of memories back and I can't thank you enough for that.
I have a disclaimer to make. I grew up on and loved the 87 series. However when I started watching the 03 series I loved it. I felt it was THE quintessential series. It was the series I "remembered" not the one I grew up on. It was fantastic and well written/acted.
When I heard about the 2012 series I wanted NOTHING to do with it at first. Afterall, how could NICK produce something even remotely as good as the 2003 series. I sat through a few episodes when they aired and was surprised at the heart, action, humor and...to an extent...nostalgia. I felt. The 87 series was light hearted, funny, and full of camp, the 03 series was darker, more serious, more action packed. The 2012 series found the same balance Nick found with Avatar the Last Airbender. It was light hearted and funny when it could be...but the show writers were ALLOWED to let the show take it self seriously, and did so quite a bit. They weren't afraid to go to some pretty dark places (for nick) and they weren't afraid to deal with the fallout from those events.
I wouldn't say the 2012 series REPLACES 03 as the best series. but it might be the most...BALANCED...version. It legitimately felt like a near perfect hybridization of the 87 and 03 series' and I hope you find the time to review it. But for now, I have found and come to enjoy your channel thanks to these reviews. You have earned a new subscriber and I wish you and your channel nothing but the best for the future.
Turtles Forever actually reminds me a lot of the semi-recent Teen Titans Go vs. Teen Titans, in that that movie didn't really get the original TT series either. It was actually the complete opposite issue the 87 turtles had, they were portrayed more goofy forgetting they could be pretty competent, whereas the original Teen Titans were portrayed way too seriously forgetting they could be goofy sometimes too.
In both cases it made me think we aren't actually seeing the actual retro universe, but instead we're seeing what people THINK the retro universe is like.
Wow what a great retrospective I never watched the 2003 show fully through, but It's the turtles I liked best from my childhood. I guess the 2003 turtles just appealed to my demographic more than the classic turtles and especially the newer turtles that came after it. I defiantly put a few hours into the first season video game on the GameCube with some friends. Thanks for the nostalgia trip, I learned a lot from theses videos.
I loved this whole retrospective series, it was well made and a ton of fun to watch. Brought up memories too, I grew up watching the 2003 series along with some of the '87 series on VHS. The Lost Episodes and Turtles Forever were things I remember being really excited for as a kid. Even taped the first airing of Turtles Forever on a spare VHS tape, the in-between bumpers are permanently seared into my head now from constant rewatches.
Thank you for making this, it's nice to hear people talking about the series again.
I always view Turtles Forever is noncanon due to the whole multiverse thing, and I enjoy it a lot more I think. Overall though, the thing that holds the movie back is the anticlimactic ending to the Shredder. Like why is it that for the grand finale the death of the Shredder isn't caused by all of the turtles working together, but instead Bebop and Rocksteady being idiots? Between this and the crossovers of the 2012 series, I really couldn't say which one is better tho, as they each have issues that hold em back.
In regards to the 87 turtles being out of character for Turtles Forever, that is a tough work around when writing crossover TMNT fics that's just the TMNT franchise when 87 is included with 03 but I've found workarounds. In one fic I'm putting out, the reason behind them acting out of character in Turtles Forever is due to their meta awareness. They take things more seriously in their own show because it's their world & everyone just sort of knows it's just a show so they do their roundabouts of everything but when they traverse the multiverse, they love trolling their counterparts because they know at the end of the day, they'll win so might as well just have fun with it.
I especially leaned into the trolling for Donatello like he was screwing around with 2012 Donnie when they were attempting to fix a machine & later when they're at the bar in the Rise lair, 87 Donatello is making Shirley Temples for whoever sits there & requests a drink so 2012 Donnie & 2012 April are enjoying some Shirley Temples with one another while chatting with 2003 Leo when Rise Mikey has a fit on someone in his space so he demands Donatello leaves & he's just like, "whatever you say, Little Kitchen Wizard." He referred to 2012 Donnie as Mr. Wizard earlier in the fic so he gets a little salty on him recycling the name but then Leo points out that he calls his own Donny Mr. Wizard which results in a silly little spat which Donatello is enjoying watching unfold. I have so much fun including the 87 turtles in fics because they are more silly, when you know your life is just a TV show, might as well have fun with it.
You might be onto something
Thank you for making this retrospective. It was really nice to find other fans of this show, and you really helped fill in some of the background for me about some of the things that I knew were true, but didn't know why.
I just finished watching Turtles Forever in what I think is the first time in a decade (and perhaps my third time overall?). I had basically perfect timing the first time I watched the series - I started watching it online in September/October of 2009, and was basically right on time to catch the last Back to the Sewer episodes and Turtles Forever as they premiered.
It's kind of funny - I agree with basically every point you made about Turtles Forever, and I totally sympathize with the '87 show fans (I've barely seen it and even I can tell that the '87 Turtles are grossly mischaracterized). Turtles Forever is definitely flawed.
But when I'm actually watching it, it doesn't really matter. I guess I'm just too happy to have one last romp with these characters I love. Plus, watching Hun losing his mind over '87 Raph breaking the fourth wall always makes me laugh.
I've been a massive fan of TMNT for as long as I can remember.
I used to watch the 80's show and the 2003 show with my nan, I had a bunch of my dad's comicbooks of the original Turtles and of the 80's cartoon Turtles, I remember specifically a comicbook version of the time the Turtles find a guy with a magical pencil, as well as an Usagi Yojimbo crossover and one where the Turtles go to a very trippy and vibrant alien planet.
I used to have Lego of the 2003 Turtles, action figures of all kinds of the 2003 Turtles including some that could transform into regular turtles, action figures that my dad kept from when he was a kid.
I used to rent the 2003 beat-em-up games from the local Blockbuster, I got the CG Movie and Smash-Up games for my birthday after they came out.
Basically, this retrospective series has been a whole ride and I'm just so happy that someone put so much effort into making something like this.
Something I think interesting is that Eastman and Laird are apparently working together again, Eastman had split off from TMNT and owned Heavy Metal for some time before recently jumping back in with his old partner.
Stan Sakai, the creator of Usagi Yojimbo, is seemingly still doing his series to this day.
The realest Graymuzzle Steve Gallacci, of Albedo Anthropomorphics fame and facilitator of the very first appearance of Usagi Yojimbo (In the second issue of Albedo Anthropomorphics as a guest character), is also still alive and doing his own thing, as he has since the 70's.
Turtles Forever & the 03 series are my favorite version of TMNT.
I never really watched the 87 series so when i first saw the 87 turtles i never saw the problem with them being so goofy.
Also the Mirage turtles in there world where also really great.
The TMNT 2003 show was the show I grew up with, and by far the series I enjoy the most, even the weaker seasons. I did have a few episodes of the 80s series on tape, but honestly as a little kid I didn't even realize they were different shows. I have so many memories with this show as a kid, even though I didn't really get to watch the series in order I still understood enough of what was going on.
I can't be exactly sure, but I believe that this show was the first time I encountered the trope of shows pretending to kill off their heroes, only to reveal they actually survived later on. When Karai invaded the lair and seemingly killed off Don, Splinter, Mikey, and Raph, I legitimately thought they were dead, and that Leo was going to have to avenge them, and that might be how the story ended. Of course I found out that wasn't the case and that they all survived, but it's still a memory that sticks with me to this day.
I really enjoyed Turtles Forever, and still do, but even I can't deny that the 80s turtles weren't treated the best in the movie. I haven't seen a ton of the original show, but they did deserve more respect than they got. Fortunately it's not all bad, Shredder and Kraang seem pretty in character, and there's the scene with the 80s Splinter that always warms my heart. However I do feel like the bad scenes kind of outweigh the good (there's a lot more neutral scenes than either though, mostly the fight scenes), like the 80s turtles dropping their weapons, and running like cowards when the original comic turtles show up. I can't really blame any 80s turtle fans for being kind of upset at this, I don't think it ruins the movie, but it is a negative against it.
The last thing I want to bring up is that, I don't really agree with your assessment on the "meta narrative" as you call it. I don't think the intention of Shredder seeing the turtle multiverse was to realize his destiny was to be beaten, rather that if he were to try to conquer every universe like he planned originally, that he would have to face these foes over and over and over every time, and that eventually they might beat him. So he came to the conclusion that the only way to ensure his victory was to destroy the prime turtles, erasing all the others from existing.
I dunno I just don't think it's as meta as you think, rather than "I'm destined to lose" he saw it as a never ending battle, so he decided to cut it short. But that's just my opinion of course.
Honestly, I wish Nick, after acquiring the franchise, had been convinced to get together the original voice cast to dub over the 80's group, maybe changing a line here and there. Simply having the original cast there would have made the movie work so much better.
Nah, you'd have to do a rewrite. After all, redubbing lines wouldn't change the fact they were still acting very Out of Character.
With at least 4 cartoons under its belt, I'd love to see a Turtles Forever style crossover with all of them just as a big love letter to the entire series. It'd be cool to see different takes on the team, their villains, their allies, etc. April definitely gets different with each incarnation, I'd also love to see each Splinter meet each other since the 03 one was Yoshi's pet while the 87 Splinter was Yoshi so I always thought that'd be interesting to see them interact and see how 03 Splinter felt about a counter part to his master becoming him. There is just so much interesting potential there so long as they give each series respect. The 03 Turtles are my turtles, I don't think I have ever seen an episode of 87 or 2012 or the most recent one which seemed kind of dumb to me but if they ever did a 4 way crossover between all these series in some way, give each of them the respect they deserve. Whether they were great or terrible, they still kept the brand alive, they still have their fans. As long as they didn't kill interest in the franchise, there is no reason to disrespect them.
The end of this retrospective addressed my only gripes with the TMNT franchise which is that so much lip service is done to the '87 show and not much else for other versions of the turtles themselves. I get why. That's the version most people started with and are familiar with. I just wish the version I started with which was the 2K3 version got more recognition which I'm glad you did this retrospective. You showed that this show got more love than I thought when It was airing. Thanks for doing this It was fun. Now excuse me I got TMNT video games to catch up on.
What an amazing retrospective, can't wait to see what else you do this year!
Fun fact. The 2000 series was under one of the creator power. Like Lairds made every choice and he expressed that he didn't like the 1980's cartoons. So the 80's turtles treatment can be seen as Lairds hating them.
Edited; And this was before 10:23. 😅
When you mentioned that there was an extended version of this movie, I got genuinely angry, thinking I'd somehow been ripped off back when I bought my DVD copy shortly after it first came out... until you started talking about the scenes left out, specifically the scene with Kairi arriving at the Techo-Drome and explaining how she'd tracked The Shredder there.
I mentally blanked at that because I was like "wait. That scene's in the extended cut? But... that scene's in the version *I* have."
So, unknowingly, I managed to nab a copy of the extended version and saw that for my Turtles Forever experience... which explains why I couldn't relate to so many people during those months after its release, since those angriest at the movie had seen the shorter version, while I'd seen it in its entirety.
This series of vids brought me to your channel, and I've watched a bunch of your back catalogue since. These were my turtles too, and they mean a great deal to me. I'm super happy somebody like you came along and did such a loving, dedicated look at this part of one of my favourite franchises. Thanks for that.
Cowabunga.
Nothing beats the first 4 seasons of 2003. It was and is simply the best.
After watching god knows how many hours of your content, from this, your Metal Gear videos, and the DCAU videos, I honestly am surprised and ashamed that I haven't subscribed yet. Your content is awesome.
This was an amazing ride. Thank you so much for all of your effort.
2003 was the first version of the TMNT I ever saw. When I asked my parents for TMNT on DVD, it was those I asked for, but my parents bought me the 1987 version, not knowing better. I told a teacher at my school about it, and suddenly we were a group of people from different generations talking and geeking out over TMNT. That was in 2008. My TMNT love is now back in full force, in a way it haven't been for years, and it's amazing to see how my niece is taking an interest in them now.
Thank you for the amazing series!
Thank god the algorithm put the first part of your retrospective in my recommended back when you only had 3/8 parts done. It's been a hell of a ride listening to you discuss the version of the Turtles that many of us grew up watching. Hope to see your channel keep growing even after this review series is now over.
I didn't even know forever was a thing. This series has been fun to watch though, as my experience with the tmnt franchise has been mostly the 2003 series growing up and the arcade game is awesome.
1:30 "I mean, this is how I came to learn of there being a TMNT cartoon from the eighties"
That hurt me right in my age.
I love how 2003 Shredder gets defeated in this movie.
I'm in this position where I fell in love with the turtles after the fact. The main two shows I watch are 2003 and 2012 because I watched 2003 when I first started getting into it and was there as most of the 2012 series was being released (from about midpoint season 2 onward I watched). I did like rise but I think that what happened to it was a bit unfair. They should remake turtles forever with more of the turtle-verses in it. Maybe not every turtles, but at least the four sets of turtles from the shows.
I enjoyed it. But I can absolutely see why many fans of the 80’s Turtles series would have issue with it.
I feel like the 2012 show did a better job with their crossover while treating the 80’s turtles with respect.
Thanks a bunch for running through this series and bringing more attention to it. It made me rewatch through it along with the reviews and this will forever be my favorite iteration of the turtles.
The 2012 show is a slow starter, but it's honestly pretty great in the long run, it's a good half-way between the 80s turtles and the 03 turtles in the early seasons, but the later seasons can honestly get darker than even the 03 series at its own darkest moments.
I highly recommend you watch the show, it honestly surprised me how good it was when I finally watched it.
I respect that but honestly I can't stand more than 5 minutes of the 2012 version. The tone and characters are way too goofy. It feels like every turtle is a version of Michelangelo... when Michelangelo was 5.
@@LightningStrike1212 in the early show definitely, but like I said, it gets much better
@@JAYDOG1337A Yes, and because of your comment I chose a random episode (a two parter in fact) in the third season and tried to watch it. The tone was still goofy so I went back to make my comment. You can maybe argue that when the plot picks up the tone gets serious but I'm not comfortable having such a tone for filler episodes either.
the 2012 series is what introduced me to the turtles and to this day is still my favorite incarnation.
@@LightningStrike1212 you have not watched rise then and you saying 1987 was not goofy lol?
Thank you for your work. I enjoyed this entire 2003 TMNT retrospective series.
I grew up with the '80s Turtles (to be accurate, I'm a '90s kid but I grew up watching re-runs of the '80s series in the '90s), had the giant size toys and Turtle Van (then called the "Party Wagon") that were hand-me-downs from my older brother, had the TMNT video game on the OG Nintendo (NES) system, and also had both the 1990 movie and 1991 _Secret of the Ooze_ on VHS cassette tape that I wore out from watching it so much lol. To this day the TMNT 1990 film is in my top favorite films and imo is one of the best comic to cartoon to live-action adaptations. They did their own thing with respect (changing Raph's character to the rough troubled rebellious brother was one of the greatest things & improvements to happen to his character) while also keeping elements of it mature & serious the way the comics were but also fused into the 1980s turtles image and popularity; perfectly balanced. As a kid I loved Secret of the Ooze and the opening scene always makes me crave pizza, but over time and now as an adult I value the original film much higher and love that one more and hold it as the best TMNT movie to date. The suits still hold up and yes there are minor flaws with the mouth movements but Jim Henson and his team's puppetry and art is masterful - especially with Master Splinter. To this day I can still put it on and have it playing on repeat in the background while I do work, quoting every line word for word.
The 2003 TMNT is my favorite interation of animated turtles (so far), I watched it through highschool (found it via re-runs circa 2008) and I was happy with the serious direction they went in (Leo's story arc after being defeated pulled me in) because that's my style of turtles I prefer, along with a threatening Shredder, as well as when they take the teachings of martial arts serious.. but I honestly have faint memory of the later seasons (season 5 onward) except for _Fast Forward_ and _Back to the Sewers_ confusing me when I found out about it being a thing (i.g April's redesign, which only started growing on me due to this video). I learned more about the two aforementioned (Fast Forward and Sewers) through your reviews. I did enjoy _Turtles Forever_ for what it was, enjoyed the references and easter eggs, and they recreated the art style of the '80s turtles perfectly, but I personally did not like how "dumbed down" the '80s turtles were. Sure, they were a light-hearted children's cartoon at the time in their popularity but they weren't like the Turtles Forever version clueless and annoying. I'd say Power Rangers' _Forever Red_ TV event special did the respected homage to several eras thing better.
I haven't fully watched the 2012 Nickelodeon turtles but always see praise and good things about it, and while I don't plan on watching _Rise of the TMNT_ take on the turtles I do admire the animation and hopefully we get more of that anime/sakuga style with TMNT fight scenes going forward - it looks pretty damn good and the turtles deserve that level of animation when showing off their martial arts. Personally, I understand that _Rise_ is probably not for me (the humor feels too Teen Titans Go-esque for my liking) and that's fine. Like you mentioned in your video here, there will always be a new interaction of turtles for a new generation. I've recently began reading the 2020 TMNT IDW comics on & off which I'm enjoying so far and I think would be a great series to adapt into animation (in Sophie Campbell's art style).
It was interesting hearing your thoughts, perspective, and opinions on the entire animated 2003 TMNT series since you grew up on that version/era. Again, thank you for your retrospect series, the research you done, and I'm looking forward to the next in this series.
I had seen some of 87 turtles before this point and this movies portrayal of them never bothered me much. Granted in both instances of watching the show and this movie it was years apart and I was really young so my sensibilities for out of character stuff wasn't quite there. Though I guess it's just not consuming as much of 87 as 03 as well, as they're the turtles i grew up on, I'd have noticed if they were kinda all morphed to having the same personality real quick, so I see where 87 heads are coming from. But anyway, as you said, as a celebration of the turtles brand (that existed at the time) it was a great fun time
Plus, 2003 series was _finished._ so... you can understand them being a little possessive about THEIR version being done, when comparing it to the one that would always, always have a greater legacy no matter what they did. It would be strange if they didn't take some potshots at the old show.
Glad to see the results of your labor bare fruit, J! I know you worried that if you diverged from what got your channel that you would lose views, so I'm glad to see that you've been able to maintain and maybe even grow just by doing what you like. I may not follow EVERY subject you do, but you always have my support to do it- your love for your subjects is what makes your videos so fun to watch.
I've been looking forward to this video but I have to admit I'm not a really big fan of Turtles forever. While it's not necessarily a bad TV special it essentially craps all over the old Turtles and just pretends that they don't have any real skills and need to be trained by the 03 Turtles despite the 87 turtles being legitimate badasses as early as the first episode of the 87 series. They could have honored both shows without belittling the older show.
Not with the original creator writing it, unfortunately.
@@Lobsterwithinternet yeah he definitely has a hate boner for the 87 show. That's also why we have Toca and Rahzar as the villains in the second movie because they refused to allow any of the TV show villains into the live action films at the time.
@@bigkmoviesandgames That sucks.
@@Lobsterwithinternet yeah it does but unfortunately some creators are just a bit selfish when it comes to other iterations of their work
The 87 turtles didn't really become serious badasses until the 6th season, before then, they were only marginally more competent than in this movie.