The reintroduction of the koka/yuko is a good idea. Ishii Satoshi once talked about a match he was down a wazari against Suzuki Keiji, and in his mind there was no way he was getting all those shidos to win. The only way was to throw (back then they had an "educational shido" as well? and your opponent literally had to have bad behavior to get it. I'm not too clued up on this one though). I gotta agree with a lot of your suggestions! About the referees, is it true that each continent needs to have a certain number of referees? I guarantee there are differences in levels between refs from continent to continent. Lastly, we NEED Japanese judoka at all levels of the IJF. Suzuki Keiji gave an interview the other day on Nomura dojo and he wasn't happy about this. The Japanese are been weeded out and it's not good. They have so much experience and depth of knowledge and attachment to the roots of judo.
I think in his recent rules brainstorming video Matt D'Aquino mentioned having a minimum time limit that an attacking althelte MUST be given before the ref breaks up a katame waza exchange. That sounds like a good idea to me.
Hobbyist Judoka but big spectator with lots of opinions about this. I dont see how extra points, especially ones that can’t win a match would drive action. If anything I could see people playing “Koka Judo” and running the clock. It would have to be thought out carefully because there will always be people looking to exploit the rules, just as they’ve exploited the shidos now. I personally think how Judo is currently scoring wazari and ippon is good, it’s clear and understandable. As you mentioned it’s the Shidos that are the issue. The issue pretty clearly comes down to how the shidos are given. Often it does seem like a surprise. My solution would also be for more discretion on the mat but done with warnings coming from the Referee like in MMA fight. Ref being able to either yell out during the match what the issue is, or pause and warn the Judoka of what they are seeing with out it being a “penalty”. This would then alert the athlete, so if a shido is given it was truly earned. Ie “you’re being overly defensive you do it again and it’s a shido”, “you’ve dropped twice now with bad attack once more and it’s shido”. No surprises on the athlete or coach what the Ref is thinking and it may change the Athletes play if they are “being called out” if stalling or dropping by was part of their strategy. 100% agree about the video review/ table should have zero say on Shido calls unless the on mat ref calls for the review. I’d like to see an actual break once it hits golden score like in most combat sports. Give the athlete 30 seconds to converse with their coach and re strategize, an actual mental break and come back in, but also a moment for the ref to again approach any athlete and say you’ve been doing X you keep doing it and I’ll give you a shido. I have plenty of faith for Judo. Yes there were some unfortunate matches, but there were still some very exciting ones as well.
My two cents, background: lifelong karateka, decade of muay thai, 12 years of aikido and many years of casually attending a great local judo dojo to cross train. Always loved Judo and the guys were so welcoming there. I say were. The club has folded and i believe a huge part was down to the rules of competition judo, people wanted a martial art that was practical for defense, grappling with no leg grabs allowed just grates so many people the wrong way. That club was excellent though and accomodated casuals and taught the full classical kodokan curriculum, there was a lot of Newaza, for an older guy like me having a class of mixed techniques was such a God send, as i knew i wouldn't spend all night being launched into orbit, it was mainly the big throws that killed me, the rest were fine as lower impact, i always enjoyed the newaza portion, for me personally allowing leg grabs and much more newaza time would be super exciting, grappling where you can truly grapple to many different strengths and styles under the judo banner would be awesome, i truly admire the great throwers in clubs and they are glorious to see, but theres more to grapping than that and i think judo lost sight of that, my strengths dont lie there but im handy with trips,reaps, etc. Most people looked at bjj and the larger allowed techniques and looked at judo and just went with bjj. People didnt take the time to go into the club and discover it was a very mixed curriculum with lots of great newaza,( lots of clubs i visited barely teach newaza these days and are super competition oriented) they just thought " nah I've work tomorrow, don't want to get launched into orbit for 2 hours". I now train at a bjj gym for my grappling as sadly, all the judo clubs in my area are shut down, there are at least 10 bjj gyms in a 30 minute radius, for the survival and prosperity of the great art of judo, i truly believe in old school judo and i believe it would flourish with a fuller ruleset being allowed, or we will lose gems of clubs like the one I was lucky enough to attend. I agree largely with all of your suggestions sensei. Apologies for the ramble.
I honestly think that one of the problems with the modern judo is Niel Adams. I just have the feeling that he was behind the massive push to change the rules of legs and is behind keeping the rules the way they are. I could be completely wrong, it is just a feeling...but it seems that way.
I like the idea of koka/yuko being brought back in some way: It's more positive for viewers to see scores appear rather than penalties. Similarly it's not good for the audience when they are going to the video review so much that it kills the momentum of the match. The audience can't see the replay so they're just twiddling their thumbs waiting for a decision. Maybe similar to tennis, each player has one challenge where replay is allowed but otherwise the referee table can't watch replays.
Love all of these suggestions. Seen too many people on the redditsphere (I know, my mistake for indulging) just parrot the IJF rule decisions as if they're best thing to happen to the sport. Things like leg grab discussions are derisively shut down. Same for smaller scores like yuko. Anything that is positive judo should be allowed be it leg grabs, newaza or unorthodox gripping.
All rule sets have their problems, thats why they change them all the time and never succeed. I think when Nick compete, rules for warnings were: first shido=koka, second=yoko, third=wazari, fourth= hansokumake? So you could score points by activity or making opponent passive just like in these days. It was a problem, and thats why they changed shido rules. The wanted score by throw to be more valuable than scores by shidos. I believe rules just should be desingned best as possible for the athletes, not for the spectators.And If the rules are best for the athletes, then the "product" will be best as possible for the spectators too. However judo will never be big spectator sport, because it's complicated and hard to understand like all great arts are.
I think Judo must incorporate some automation into its scoring system, just like taekwando did. I dont know how but that just a matter of engineering. AI image processing could help a lot. This will tremendously reduce refering interference.
Leg grabs cause people to stand hunched over which actually kills the action. You get two people scared to commit as they both wait for the other to do an action and grab his leg and run him down. Head diving is dangerous as it can damage the neck and people will bridge etc to avoid their back making contact. If people do it enough will defending and performing throws than it's a matter of time before someone breaks their neck. A high level Judo player can be in control but a kid imitating it or doing it wrong can mess his neck up. But allowing bear grabs seems to make sense.
One more rule that dont make any sense why coaches cant coach? And being expeld for the entire competition sometimes by asking for a score that in the end is given by the comission.
11:57 I massively agree with this. The refs should crouch and watch the ne waza more carefully. I lost a gold medal fight recently because the ref gave the opponent 45 seconds on the ground, making no progress, with his forearm covering my mouth and trying to crank my head clean off. I used up all my energy there to avoid being made quadriplegic The fight carried on for another 3 minutes but I was gassed out, with visible bruises around my mouth from his forearm. He only got picked up on one shido. He committed 4, plus a hansoku maki. I committed a shido and didn't get picked up on it too. Ref was blind as fuck. My girlfriend got the whole fight on video so it's pretty easy to see. And you can see in the photos of me on the podium afterwards my chin and mouth are bruised to hell so there's no question we should have been stood up a lot earlier.
I have two more things that I think are bad for the health and reputation of the sport. 1) Judoka will go to turtle if they feel any danger and they'll just stall out because they know the ref will stand them up. 2) One person will throw the other while having so little control over the situation that they end up on bottom. Both are bad for spectators, and both are bad for practitioners of a MARTIAL art to do. Penalize these things, or reward the other person.
That dont work. If you reward judoka to getting back of other, result is judokas are trying to get one anothers back instead of throwing, because its easier. In judo, we want to see throws.
I agree with most of what you are saying. At this point just going back to Judo rules of 2010 or 1985 or the All-Japan tournament would be an improvement over the SHido mess at the Olympics. May be have the Referees in Gi too with their actual belt. When I was young and competed in europe you would sometimes see at local tournaments some of the three judges on the mats in Gi, because they might compete in Vets too.
How did your sons overall do at the Olympics? I didnt watch nearly as much as I wanted to. The worst call I saw was a Judoka mid throw where his hair yes hair touched the mat and was disqualified (Mongolian) for head diving. Bring back (limited) leg grabs and give the players more time on the ground (no obvious acting/stalling thats a shido and if you fall into someone's full guard and cant get out very quickly stand it up) and it will give Judokas more options instead of the same thing over and over again. So much of it looked desperate instead of just Judo. Also I just hate turtling it just looks bad it's a "safe" place which there shouldn't be in a match until mate. Yes they allowed more newaza and the result was I watched ten matches in a row and four of them ended with a sub. Hopefully they listen to you.
Koka Judo of the 80's and 90's was the foundation of the problems we have today. They need to go back to pre-olympic Kodokan rules.
My daughter’s first word was while I was watching the judo 2024 Olympics. She said “shido”
@@Majin_Doh 😂
So cute ❤
The reintroduction of the koka/yuko is a good idea. Ishii Satoshi once talked about a match he was down a wazari against Suzuki Keiji, and in his mind there was no way he was getting all those shidos to win. The only way was to throw (back then they had an "educational shido" as well? and your opponent literally had to have bad behavior to get it. I'm not too clued up on this one though).
I gotta agree with a lot of your suggestions!
About the referees, is it true that each continent needs to have a certain number of referees? I guarantee there are differences in levels between refs from continent to continent.
Lastly, we NEED Japanese judoka at all levels of the IJF. Suzuki Keiji gave an interview the other day on Nomura dojo and he wasn't happy about this. The Japanese are been weeded out and it's not good. They have so much experience and depth of knowledge and attachment to the roots of judo.
Agreed. IJF is mostly white Hungarians & Germans. Judo is a huge global sport... it needs cultural representation.
I liked the rules in 1963 when I first started Judo in Westfield, NJ with Nikkis Dad as my Sensei
I think in his recent rules brainstorming video Matt D'Aquino mentioned having a minimum time limit that an attacking althelte MUST be given before the ref breaks up a katame waza exchange. That sounds like a good idea to me.
I hope that they listen to you, Sensei. Good luck!
Hobbyist Judoka but big spectator with lots of opinions about this. I dont see how extra points, especially ones that can’t win a match would drive action. If anything I could see people playing “Koka Judo” and running the clock. It would have to be thought out carefully because there will always be people looking to exploit the rules, just as they’ve exploited the shidos now. I personally think how Judo is currently scoring wazari and ippon is good, it’s clear and understandable. As you mentioned it’s the Shidos that are the issue.
The issue pretty clearly comes down to how the shidos are given. Often it does seem like a surprise. My solution would also be for more discretion on the mat but done with warnings coming from the Referee like in MMA fight. Ref being able to either yell out during the match what the issue is, or pause and warn the Judoka of what they are seeing with out it being a “penalty”. This would then alert the athlete, so if a shido is given it was truly earned. Ie “you’re being overly defensive you do it again and it’s a shido”, “you’ve dropped twice now with bad attack once more and it’s shido”. No surprises on the athlete or coach what the Ref is thinking and it may change the Athletes play if they are “being called out” if stalling or dropping by was part of their strategy.
100% agree about the video review/ table should have zero say on Shido calls unless the on mat ref calls for the review.
I’d like to see an actual break once it hits golden score like in most combat sports. Give the athlete 30 seconds to converse with their coach and re strategize, an actual mental break and come back in, but also a moment for the ref to again approach any athlete and say you’ve been doing X you keep doing it and I’ll give you a shido.
I have plenty of faith for Judo. Yes there were some unfortunate matches, but there were still some very exciting ones as well.
Great post could not agree more
I totally agree with you but would add one point: penalties for passivity in Ne Waza.
Can you do a video on harai goshi to rnc best way for street defence
I 100% agree with everything you said in this video
My two cents, background: lifelong karateka, decade of muay thai, 12 years of aikido and many years of casually attending a great local judo dojo to cross train. Always loved Judo and the guys were so welcoming there. I say were. The club has folded and i believe a huge part was down to the rules of competition judo, people wanted a martial art that was practical for defense, grappling with no leg grabs allowed just grates so many people the wrong way.
That club was excellent though and accomodated casuals and taught the full classical kodokan curriculum, there was a lot of Newaza, for an older guy like me having a class of mixed techniques was such a God send, as i knew i wouldn't spend all night being launched into orbit, it was mainly the big throws that killed me, the rest were fine as lower impact, i always enjoyed the newaza portion, for me personally allowing leg grabs and much more newaza time would be super exciting, grappling where you can truly grapple to many different strengths and styles under the judo banner would be awesome, i truly admire the great throwers in clubs and they are glorious to see, but theres more to grapping than that and i think judo lost sight of that, my strengths dont lie there but im handy with trips,reaps, etc. Most people looked at bjj and the larger allowed techniques and looked at judo and just went with bjj. People didnt take the time to go into the club and discover it was a very mixed curriculum with lots of great newaza,( lots of clubs i visited barely teach newaza these days and are super competition oriented) they just thought " nah I've work tomorrow, don't want to get launched into orbit for 2 hours". I now train at a bjj gym for my grappling as sadly, all the judo clubs in my area are shut down, there are at least 10 bjj gyms in a 30 minute radius, for the survival and prosperity of the great art of judo, i truly believe in old school judo and i believe it would flourish with a fuller ruleset being allowed, or we will lose gems of clubs like the one I was lucky enough to attend. I agree largely with all of your suggestions sensei. Apologies for the ramble.
I honestly think that one of the problems with the modern judo is Niel Adams. I just have the feeling that he was behind the massive push to change the rules of legs and is behind keeping the rules the way they are. I could be completely wrong, it is just a feeling...but it seems that way.
I like the idea of koka/yuko being brought back in some way: It's more positive for viewers to see scores appear rather than penalties.
Similarly it's not good for the audience when they are going to the video review so much that it kills the momentum of the match. The audience can't see the replay so they're just twiddling their thumbs waiting for a decision. Maybe similar to tennis, each player has one challenge where replay is allowed but otherwise the referee table can't watch replays.
Love all of these suggestions. Seen too many people on the redditsphere (I know, my mistake for indulging) just parrot the IJF rule decisions as if they're best thing to happen to the sport. Things like leg grab discussions are derisively shut down. Same for smaller scores like yuko. Anything that is positive judo should be allowed be it leg grabs, newaza or unorthodox gripping.
All rule sets have their problems, thats why they change them all the time and never succeed. I think when Nick compete, rules for warnings were: first shido=koka, second=yoko, third=wazari, fourth= hansokumake? So you could score points by activity or making opponent passive just like in these days. It was a problem, and thats why they changed shido rules. The wanted score by throw to be more valuable than scores by shidos.
I believe rules just should be desingned best as possible for the athletes, not for the spectators.And If the rules are best for the athletes, then the "product" will be best as possible for the spectators too.
However judo will never be big spectator sport, because it's complicated and hard to understand like all great arts are.
I think Judo must incorporate some automation into its scoring system, just like taekwando did. I dont know how but that just a matter of engineering. AI image processing could help a lot. This will tremendously reduce refering interference.
Leg grabs cause people to stand hunched over which actually kills the action.
You get two people scared to commit as they both wait for the other to do an action and grab his leg and run him down.
Head diving is dangerous as it can damage the neck and people will bridge etc to avoid their back making contact. If people do it enough will defending and performing throws than it's a matter of time before someone breaks their neck.
A high level Judo player can be in control but a kid imitating it or doing it wrong can mess his neck up.
But allowing bear grabs seems to make sense.
Bring back old judo. Classical judo is better.
Agreed
One more rule that dont make any sense why coaches cant coach? And being expeld for the entire competition sometimes by asking for a score that in the end is given by the comission.
You really should put timestamps on this video
@@songsunye1558 what’s that ?
Come back to old judo
11:57 I massively agree with this. The refs should crouch and watch the ne waza more carefully.
I lost a gold medal fight recently because the ref gave the opponent 45 seconds on the ground, making no progress, with his forearm covering my mouth and trying to crank my head clean off. I used up all my energy there to avoid being made quadriplegic
The fight carried on for another 3 minutes but I was gassed out, with visible bruises around my mouth from his forearm.
He only got picked up on one shido. He committed 4, plus a hansoku maki. I committed a shido and didn't get picked up on it too. Ref was blind as fuck.
My girlfriend got the whole fight on video so it's pretty easy to see. And you can see in the photos of me on the podium afterwards my chin and mouth are bruised to hell so there's no question we should have been stood up a lot earlier.
They tell us "don't crouch, don't bend over. Bad posture looks improper."
I have two more things that I think are bad for the health and reputation of the sport. 1) Judoka will go to turtle if they feel any danger and they'll just stall out because they know the ref will stand them up. 2) One person will throw the other while having so little control over the situation that they end up on bottom. Both are bad for spectators, and both are bad for practitioners of a MARTIAL art to do. Penalize these things, or reward the other person.
That dont work. If you reward judoka to getting back of other, result is judokas are trying to get one anothers back instead of throwing, because its easier. In judo, we want to see throws.
Turtle is just part of judo. The onus should be on the top guy to turnover.
I agree with most of what you are saying. At this point just going back to Judo rules of 2010 or 1985 or the All-Japan tournament would be an improvement over the SHido mess at the Olympics. May be have the Referees in Gi too with their actual belt. When I was young and competed in europe you would sometimes see at local tournaments some of the three judges on the mats in Gi, because they might compete in Vets too.
How did your sons overall do at the Olympics? I didnt watch nearly as much as I wanted to.
The worst call I saw was a Judoka mid throw where his hair yes hair touched the mat and was disqualified (Mongolian) for head diving.
Bring back (limited) leg grabs and give the players more time on the ground (no obvious acting/stalling thats a shido and if you fall into someone's full guard and cant get out very quickly stand it up) and it will give Judokas more options instead of the same thing over and over again. So much of it looked desperate instead of just Judo. Also I just hate turtling it just looks bad it's a "safe" place which there shouldn't be in a match until mate.
Yes they allowed more newaza and the result was I watched ten matches in a row and four of them ended with a sub. Hopefully they listen to you.