Locomotives down on their knees. Nothing like heavy mountain railroading.
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- We are on the heavy grades on the ex-N&W Pocahontas Division. Coal is still king here, and lots of horsepower is needed on the front, and rear of the train. After a three unit set of helpers drifts downgrade to meet its next shove, We catch a heavy eastbound coal drag at the signal. NS #6503-#8626, leads the train, with three units shoving hard on the rear. Just as the units get to the camera, another set of westbound helpers heads downgrade for another push to Bluefield. We are at Maybeury, WV. 2/22/1992
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video by Jack D Kuiphoff © 2015
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Great vid. I hope to get down in that area again soon, while it's still legal to travel.
To bad the traffic levels have dropped since these videos were taken.
Somebody in the NS Power Bureau needs his butt kicked. That train was waaaay underpowered with two engines. Even with five she is still working hard.
Thank goodness for AC drive. In the old DC drive days you'd have a couple locomotives heading for the back shop.
That was three bank engines... not four.
one of 'em was in stealth mode
yes the Y6a And Y6b,s and the class A,s where some of Steams finest Steam locomotives and powerfull too
Always love when this video pops back up in my feed. It’s certainly not the same today, but gives you an appreciation of what it takes to move freight through the mountains of WV. It’s always fun to watch the orchestra of pushers running back and forth on ATCS as well.. one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.
Nothing on earth beats the sound of a 16V645 wide open.
Your not kidding! What a fantastic sound. Thanks for watching...
I can think of one. Two 645's in full song, resonating against each other. mmmm music
This guy... +1
SD40-2, the last great sounding EMD's, I would not say down on their knees but certainly working hard, and front loco's at and sometimes just over the limit of adhesion.
But the train keeps on moving and doesn't slow down more, so just enough power on this train.
Love the sight and sound of this kind of action. Excellent video Jack.
+iusetano Ah yah, The sights, sounds, and the smells. Nothing like it...
jackmp294.5™ - I love the smell of creosote in the morning :)
Wow! Amazing to see how the railroads deal with this kind of terrain.
There is nothing like mountain railroad. All that horsepower fighting those mountain grades. Thanks for watching...
Every time I watch one of your fine videos, I've got the headphones on to catch the full experience! I've never been disappointed! Love the chugging C-B prime mover in that GE helper! Thanks Jack! Merry Christmas!!
+ButThatsShacksTrain That;s the way to do it. I never heard with headphones, but I have a pretty good sound system hooked up, and man! It will vibrate stuff on my desk. LOL ... Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year to you as well.
Love how you caught those in Virginia. I know it because it's in a trains magazine
Thanks for watching
Any time bro ✌👍
question for the smart people who watches these videos; if all the trains and trucks came to a stop at the same time: How long would this country last before it fell apart and people started killing people for things they needed? just thinking out loud.
Maybe a week.
I say 2 days, Looting will commence soon as the word gets out supplies aren't coming
I'll give it five minutes before the dumb arrogant majority starts killing each other. The sensible ones will band together and start a new era. Accepting that the current era is dead.
It's been said that most societies are 3 meals away from breakdown and chaos.
Depends whether you live in Detroit or Wyoming.
In Detroit they already do. In Wyoming, you'd probably not notice for a few weeks. It would be amusing to see Wall St bankers begging for scraps of bread off the Amish.
Oh yeah, put those headphones on and turn that volume UP!! Great stuff Jack!
+b3j8 Someone else said the headphones are unreal. Thanks for watching, and glad you enjoyed it. Hope you had a Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year to you.
+jackmp294.5™ And the same to you sir! Thanks again for all the great video!!
They need Big Boy.
This from February of 1992 a month before my 12th birthday can't believe that was 28 years ago and it's 2020 i sure feel old great video from 2015
What is a hard grade for heavy freight trains, 1.2% grade? What is the grade % of this track section?
Hallo . Schwere Kohlenzüge Bergauf mit Schiebeloks , in Bild und Ton Presentiert . Immer ein Genuss !
SD40-2 high hood earning her keep as the middle helper unit...great video
Thanks Jason. Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching...
Not moving " 1 ton of freight 423 miles on a gallon of fuel " that day.
Probably not, but they are still doing better than you probably think. There are a _lot_ of tons on that train. I doubt it's less than half that number, probably better. If you count _just_ the part where they are climbing the mountain on full throttle with multiple helpers, yes, it's going to hurt economy. But they they get a downgrade and can coast for the next fifty miles. It usually averages out over any sort of distance. Anything that's not up-then-down is flat ground, and that's where railroads excel at lugging heavy weights long distances for low cost per mile in fuel and labor. That's why they don't just use trucks to transport coal.
Gradients the worst enemy of freight trains
It sure is. It works them to the limit. Thanks for watching...
And the best friend of railfans, lol.
What the h*ll do you know about trains ....you're a da#n cat!
Thought those two were doing a remarkable job of marching up the hill, THEN, another 12,000 or so horsepower appears shoving from the rear. That last unit must have been really pouring on the sand. Nice catch!!!!!
That was a sight to behold!
Crazy that such a large RR couldn't find another unit to add to this lash-up and not stress the Hell out of these engines ? This ain't the Penn Central you know !! Lol : D
For sure Ronnie. They run them till they drop! Thanks for watching...
@@1jackdk , I Love your Vids Jack, I don't Railfan as mush like I did from the 1980s - 2000's. But Still make it to PA/NY for the Alco's about every two years : D
I live in Exeter, NH, right on the B&M (PAR) mainline !!
If the train pulling 22 more cart it pulling 880,000 to 1,320,000 pounds just asking ?
And I found you are right Sir and was assuming they were traction motors but with your help I found the 40s have a cooling fan and not multiple. My assumption was that there were more than one whine of the fans on each unit from this vid and others...and that it not the case.
This gets a like just for having a high-nose SD40-2.
Is it just me, or did the middle loco at the end of the train blow a traction motor after it went by?
No, it was just a bit of sand... correcting wheelslip.
Thank you , nice footage
Interesting to me to think that in a train with rear helpers there is some point in the train where a knuckle basically has no load on it.
Interesting point. Although that specific point would vary a lot depending on output of each unit, traction, and how the track runs. But at any given moment, I guess you're right. I can't quite decide; you might also end up with several cars in the middle (or thereabouts) that are equally being pushed and pulled. But then, the moment that the net output of the leading engines drops slightly below the output of the pushers, you'd end up with the whole train pushing slightly ahead against the leading units, or vice versa. I honestly can't quite decide just how that would work out. Now you'll have be lying up at night thinking about it, damn you!
LOL Sorry. It's a bit mind boggling for me too. Surely the point will be constantly changing. Just theoretically speaking if the lead units could move the whole train efficiently it wouldn't need rear helpers. Let's say in a 100 car train that the lead units cannot pull the entire train up an oncoming grade but it could manage 75 cars. The rear units would only have to be capable of moving 25 cars by themselves.
I remember the coal trains...with 4 6 2 Allegheny Steam Locos pulling them...along the Ohio River...
i dated this girl year ago that spent a lot of time down on her knees. She worked at a home and gardening place lol.
Oh no....
absolutely amazing shot there at the end, with the smoke & sand flyin'! love your work. long time subscriber. thanks so much for taking time to share & letting us reap the rewards of your efforts.
Mountain railroad at its best. Thanks for watching.
Jack the second motor on the loaded coal is a C39-8 right? Were they Dash 7 technology or Dash 8 tech?
I believe that is correct Thomas. That was suppose to be the lastest, so I would say Dash 8
u say 4 but I only see 3 helpers at the beginning
it'd BE NICE TO SEE THE FOUR HELPERS LINK UP AND START PUSHING
They where headed back to Welsh to push another drag up over the hill. Thats all they do. Run light one way, push like crazy the other. Thanks for watching...
There's no struggle 😏
You want to see diesels down on their knees? Go to Pannawonika, Western Australia and you'll see two GE 4400 ACs pulling 22,000 tons of iron ore from there to Cape Lambert. It takes 5 hours in notch 8 to reach Maitland (the top of the hill) and your might reach 30 km/h twice in that time. Those are our small trains. On the other line, we run 33,000 ton trains with three locos on the head and two bankers at the rear.
More power Scotty!!
Cool video jack mp .
Good morning from the uk. Forgive the dumb question : are all the tractor units linked by hard wire to choreograph their drive, and are they staffed? Trains like this are a rarity in the uk.
My Grandpa was born in Norfolk Virginia
They were huffing and puffing
wow, what's the gradient there?
Not sure, but it gets pretty steep there. I wish I had the track charts for the Pokey Division.
Very nice Jack!
+Jeff Bennett Thanks Jeff, glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching...
Your welcome!
Love it
What prevents a pusher from buckling the train?
Those beast are working!
They sure are. Working their guts out. Thanks for watching...
CRANK IT UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Ohhhhh yahhh!
and to say 3 a class steam locomotive did the same job well before this diesel so the steam locos had more power you can see why Norfork and western were sceptical about Diesel power
I would be surprised if the steam locos were pulling 100 ton hoppers. Probably 70 tonners. And most likely did not have the same number of cars per train. That's not to say steam locomotives were not extremely powerful.
Tractive effort was much higher on steam engines, it takes 4-6 diesels to pull same weight a allegheny or y6b was capable of
Steam locomotive's are very powerful but aren't exactly safe. All it takes is a valve to get stuck and you have an entire crew dead. They also tend to start fires since they're basically rolling furnaces. I believe it was more for safety than anything else.
anna jeannette Dixon , I wonder what kind of steam powered locomotive could be built today using modern materials, engineering and processes ? Probably a pretty bad a** one !
anna jeannette Dixon nothing can beat steam....
Super video top
Thanks Marco, and thanks for watching.
Can just imagine the battles in steam days.
Awesome video my friend.
+chris shoulders Thanks Chris. Glad you enjoyed. Merry Christmas to yah, and have a safe and Happy New Year.
Fire trucks
Roscoe P Coal-Train!!
if they were straining that had, there would be all kinds of black smoke!
nightlightabcd only if they were not running properly. A diesel will give off very little smoke when running well
Great video
Thanks Robert, glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching...
No Folk n Way!
What am I missing??? The locomotives are rated to a horsepower, the loads are known, and the grade isn't going to change, so why send out a train that's underpowered? The variables seem to all be covered with nothing left to effect the power, load, horsepower. Unless adding the helpers at a stated point was planned?
Bobby Paluga sometimes they are planned. But it usually just depends as to whether or not the trains departing yard has surplus power or if they are low
They usually station helpers in places where they will be needed, so they don't have to make the whole run with twice as many units as necessary. Sometimes a train will just be assigned more cars than it can handle; they usually have a certain number per train, sometimes there are more, sometimes fewer cars. Sometimes it's right on the margin where they _think_ 4 units can handle it, just barely, but they are wrong. But in this case I'm pretty sure that these are units stationed here to help trains up this specific grade. Coal trains need to run regular schedules, and it's easier to know just how many cars and how heavy they will be. It doesn't say that the train stalled out anywhere, it's more likely that the helper units in the beginning were headed down on schedule to meet the train (or they may even be for a following train, and the one shown was already on the way up the grade when they passed). The compelling evidence is that there was a second set of helpers headed down the grade as the train was pulling past, like clockwork. You think that TWO trains stalled out on the same grade, one right after the other? And they called in two sets of helpers that both got there just in time to help each train up the grade? No, I'd say that was a regular scheduled helper heading down the grade to meet the following train waiting at the bottom for the first one to reach the top. They probably just finished unhooking from the last train they helped to the top, and headed back down.
yes indeed. tks jack
You need to change the 8603 to 6503 for the lead locomotive the second one is right.
Roger that Joe, thanks. I changed it, but its #6503. Thanks for watching...
jackmp294.5™ it's a great video i love hearing EMD'S and GE'S in the mountains
i know nothing about trains so here is a dumb question. Is a train more likely to derail when being pushed , especially up a grade? Just curious, Nice video.
Its very possible Lewis. We had one here in PA last spring. With this ne PTC, it shut the lead motors down on a 156 car freight. The manned helpers on the rear were still shoving in notch 8. The empty cars in the middle of the train scattered everywhere. Thanks for watching...
jackmp294.5™ thanks for your reply.When the pulling engines shut down do they become free rolling or does their drive train create resistance to rolling?
They free roll, but the weight does cause resistance. Sometimes they run light power past the house with about 12 locomotives. They usually have the first 2 running, and the last, or second from the last running as well. They probably put another on line when they head up into the mountains.
Not a dumb question. Very logical. And yes, helpers have to be careful or they will buckle the middle of the train and shove cars right off the track, especially on a corner. Pulling locomotives can yank couplers out, pushing ones can shove cars right off the track.
A diesel-electric locomotive doesn't have a "drivetrain" like a truck does, so the engine (or 'prime mover', as it's called) won't act to brake the locomotive if you shut it down while rolling, like a truck would do if the engine died when it was in gear (or if you let off the accelerator). The diesel drives a generator, which creates electricity, which is used to power traction motors in the axles. When you shut off the engine you just have a free-rolling chunk of steel. There is no transmission, or no gearbox, to be exact; diesel-electric is a form of "transmission" in the technical sense of the word, as it transmits the power from the prime mover to the working unit, or wheels. This can also be done with a single or multi-speed gearbox, as seen in trucks, ships, or other machinery, but rarely in locomotives.
A diesel engine can use the traction motors to brake the train, but only by putting them into the "dynamic brake" mode, which turns the engines into generators being driven by the wheels and the momentum of the train. On an electic locomotive, the power generated is put back into the power supply wire or rail, which is one of their big advantages. On a diesel-electric, the generated power is simply routed into "resistors" on the roof, which are basically giant electric heater elements. Mechanical brakes turn momentum into heat by friction; dynamic brakes turn it into heat by making it into electrical power and heating resistor grids. Which I think is very cool (although technically both are a big waste of energy).
Kel Harper Thanks so much for the explanation. I found it quite interesting. I think I will read up on the mechanic s of the modern locomotive. They are quite awesome and many folks I am sure see them go by and never realize the complicated designing that goes into making such a durable and powerful machine that operates safely. Thanks again.
The traction motor whine is especially great at the end...
+PingasTheFourth If that is true then, I would think those fans are exclusive to the 40s and nothing else. You hear nothing like it on other units as far as I've heard or seen on videos on this medium...but it's all good and to me are a distinction of those ipunits if you can't see and only hear em on the lines...
+PingasTheFourth ...foamer...nice....this is now something new I must investigate more as I did with other components and thanks for the info as you must be/ have been an employee or know someone in the business...I've got a million questions as I watch these vids and always love to learn--no matter how foamy it gets..
The main alternators scream pretty loud on EMD's when at full output too. Just an all around loud machine with cooling fans and truck fans etc...
barely enough power
Run them to they drop. Then it shuts down the railroad. Thanks for watching.
Get out and push jr
Could use all the help they can get. Thanks for watching...
Sadly, thanks to Obama’s war on coal, this whole area has been decimated economically. And it will never return to its heyday. Traffic overall was way down on my last visit, especially coal drags. The intermodal run thru trains are keeping the line active......barely.
That is for sure! Hardly worth the 4.5 hour drive for me to go there anymore. Its a shame. It was such a neat place to go to spend a week.
@@1jackdk My primary motivation for going up there every year were the old N&W CPL signals. Those are now gone, and with the lack of traffic, it's not even worth my 7 hour trip to get there. Fun while it lasted!
I live in Southwestern Virginia. I miss hear the diesels coming up the line from Buchanan County at night. Now it may be once or twice a week I hear them. It's just something really special to hear them coming thru at night, up the line.
Poor traction motors on that 2nd to last locomotive.
why do they have headlamps switched on the rear bankers instead of a red warning light?
skinheadgay22 only need red if it’s on the rear of a passenger train
Oh boy I did say and mean rear bankers. Which are the ones at the back.
skinheadgay22 your question is why do they have the headlights on the rear engine instead of a red light, correct?
Oh boy. Sorry I get what you mean. It's only for a passenger train that they need red lights at the back. So freights don't? That's different from the whole world.
skinheadgay22 no biggie. I just wanted to make sure I understood your question.