The train going uphill is getting 40 feet per gallon, the downhill helpers, 400 miles per gallon. Would be interesting to see the economics of energy recovery methods on both sides of the mountain.
I remember when I was a kid , staying at my grandparents house, the tracks were maybe 100 yards from her house and they would sound like a thundering tornado blasting down the tracks, i miss it.
Just to add my two cents, as some1 who lives along the Pittsburgh line, most coal drags are almost.always 130loads, anywhere from 16-18k tons, so yea heavy! Lol
I liked the sound of the GE AC60 engines pulling uphill. Used to see them daily in the 90s. Guess UP didn’t like them, but nothing sounded as powerful.
It wasn't that Union Pacific or CSX didn't like them, the AC6000CW's were unreliable. Those units always had crankshaft and/or turbocharger failures. The 7HDL's evidently couldn't handle 6,000 HP for long periods of time and under serious stress. The first orders of AC6000CW's were actually AC6044CW's with 7FDL's because GE was still working about development for the prime movers at that time. Starting at 7500 series was the real AC6000CW's that were under warranty. All of them as far as I know have been rebuilt as C44ACM's with 7FDL's and Evolution Series electronics. CSX's AC6000CW's were CW60AC's and most if not all were derated and designated as CW46AC's or CW46AH's with few actual rebuilds being CW44-6's. The only thing that came about from the 7HDL's is that the prime movers in the ES40 & ES44 GEVO series is derived from them but still shares some similarity to the 7FDL's from the C44-9W's and AC4400CW's. This also includes the ES58 & ES59 ACI import units. The competition to the AC6000CW's being the SD90MAC-H's also failed but never lasted as long and were quickly phased out having more problems. The SD9043MAC's only stayed longer being convertibles just like the AC6044CW's.
I wish UP would run all EMD's as their helpers. I live in Eugene, Oregon and miss the sounds of the old tunnel motors and sd40's as they roared up the cascade pass. 42 miles of 1.8-2.6% grades at run 8 never sounded better. Now, it's basically all GE tunnel torchers and nothing else. I get it, they need all the power they can get (it's normal to have nice to ELEVEN locomotives per manifest train, and up to twelve units per oil train), but man....I really miss the deep whine of those old EMD's!
Oh I forgot to mention, the consists here are typically as followed: Manifests: three to four units up front, four units mid-train, and two to three units pushing in the back. Oil: two to three units on the head end, five units mid-train, and three to four units pushing on the end.
I noticed that the helper on the rear had the device on the front that allows them to uncouple on the move. Not sure what the proper terminology is. Nice catch!
2-stoke EMDs win the battle in gorgeous thunderous sound every day, no questions asked. GE might be better at doing the job, I'd choose EMDs any and every day if I was a loco engineer.
The SD80MAC's were far better units and still retain the title of being the most reliable units with high end horsepower. The AC6000CW's and SD90MAC-H's failed with every aspect of mechanical reliability. EPA regulations including higher costs and useless warranty from EMD is what retired and discontinued the SD80MAC's. Norfolk Southern was never planning to rebuild them. The SD70ACU's are nice but inevitably had alot of frame issues. Union Pacific undertightened the fuel tanks on their SD9043MAC's which wasn't part of the initial design that EMD did for them. It was the same "floating" method as they did for the SD80MAC's. The same scheme is what they did with the SD90MAC-H's. That's why numerous units, mainly the SD9043MAC's, had fractured frames over time. Norfolk Southern made an expensive mistake acquiring those units from Union Pacific. One of the benefits was Mitsubishi electronics replacing the Siemens electronics. Surprisingly some of the PRLX SD70ACU's that were sold to them by Norfolk Southern have officially been purchased by Ferromex. Who knows how long any of them will survive or if they can figure out how to modify and correct the issues with the frames and fuel tanks that originated from Union Pacific.
To the comment that said NS was cheap; I may or may not agree. But if I had my way, I would like to see the [C&O (2666) Allegany] steam engine, pulling a monster coal train, by "itself" But, I guess that's PRR & wouldn't be cost effective. At any rate, I very much enjoyed the video.
I know that this Video is somewhat old, but it sounds like NS at the time was using Conrail's horsepower calculations: ~ 1-hp./Ton. If we just go by 15,000-Tons, the power was 1.16-hp./ton - simply insufficient to tackle grades. I know that it's easy for me to talk, but they would have been better-off splicing another 8,800-hp. mid-consist.
@bill hammond iii True, but the same engine is used in the sd70 t4 and it doesn't have the same issues as before, so just take the new and improved version but raise back to 6000
4400hp or 8800hp is irrelevant. It's all about tractive effort. There's Dash-9s with 386000 lbs or something like that and then regular AC44s and Heavier than standard AC44s with 432000 lbs. More weight, better adhesion and pulling power even though they all have 4400hp. So just looking at total amount of HP doesn't tell much. 👍🙋🏻♂️
It would lead someone to believe the higher horsepower generator could put more power to the prime movers though but depending on the model it's all over the place I'm sure. I know most hover around between 90k and 130k these days. Actually om thinking of older models . The sd90mac had three figures and the highest continuous tractive effort was around 165k which is insane.
@@jordanalexander615 well sd90 was 6000 hp! But SD70ACes are almost there as 90mac , so are ET44AH units close to AC 6000! Look at the shunting working power,, There's GP40-2 and sometimes two slugs, ( increase in traction power with 8 tm or 12 from same 3000 hp prime mover and alternator)
You are confusing tractive effort with weight. The Dash-9 weighs about 425,000 lbs and produces a maximum of 142,000 lbs of tractive effort starting and 105,000 lbs continuous.
What do you mean “rescued”? That’s standard operating procedure for NS coal trains in mountainous areas. I live in Roanoke VA and that’s exactly what the NS coal trains are setup like.
I miss the SD40Es. They sounded so great when there were 4 of them
Tractive Effort of these locomotives is really insane.. Brute Force
The torque figure for this video must be PHENOMENAL!
WOW! They're giving it all they got, it sounds absolutely fantastic!
There's nothing like the sound of a big bore diesel all spooled up!
The train going uphill is getting 40 feet per gallon, the downhill helpers, 400 miles per gallon. Would be interesting to see the economics of energy recovery methods on both sides of the mountain.
Economics? Not worth bothering with.
Economics in railroading never heard of it, fuel is fuel in a locomotive
Downhill it recreates the diesel and can use it later again 😜
@@kansas8312fuel costs is all the railroad cares about. They have absolutely run the numbers on how much fuel is used.
Oh my gosh that was probably the best SAAHC I've ever heard.
Awesome catch! Thanks! Just like some of my videos! I love the sound of the engines working hard up the grade.
I love this Big Norfolk Southern
Awesome catch! That’s one heavy coal train!
Nice video! Definitely my favorite spot on the Pittsburgh Line in this area.
Great video and related information. Thanks!
It was awesome! I'm gonna sign up for more good stuff like this 🙂
Two Stroke Sound is Awesome
I remember when I was a kid , staying at my grandparents house, the tracks were maybe 100 yards from her house and they would sound like a thundering tornado blasting down the tracks, i miss it.
WOW, great catch....slow as ya go...Thank you
Can't wait for the full video! Nice captioning and information on this one.
Awesome locations! Great video!!
I love sd70aces my favorite loco they just sound and look so mean.
Excellent vid and write up 👌
great train video bro
Thanks!
Great Video!
Nice catch
The PP&L trains with 3 Sd60I's and a 4 set of 40E's were equally impressive
Thanks
Just to add my two cents, as some1 who lives along the Pittsburgh line, most coal drags are almost.always 130loads, anywhere from 16-18k tons, so yea heavy! Lol
Thats a Norfolk Southern Coal Train. The Trains that usually come through my hometown in Iowa are usually Berlington and Nothern Santa Fe Trains.
🔥. Nice Kerry!
Always amazes me the weights rolling down the rails eh.
That horn at 6:35 lol
Did yall notice the short amount of time between the engines passing by and hooking up😮
I liked the sound of the GE AC60 engines pulling uphill. Used to see them daily in the 90s. Guess UP didn’t like them, but nothing sounded as powerful.
It wasn't that Union Pacific or CSX didn't like them, the AC6000CW's were unreliable. Those units always had crankshaft and/or turbocharger failures. The 7HDL's evidently couldn't handle 6,000 HP for long periods of time and under serious stress. The first orders of AC6000CW's were actually AC6044CW's with 7FDL's because GE was still working about development for the prime movers at that time. Starting at 7500 series was the real AC6000CW's that were under warranty. All of them as far as I know have been rebuilt as C44ACM's with 7FDL's and Evolution Series electronics. CSX's AC6000CW's were CW60AC's and most if not all were derated and designated as CW46AC's or CW46AH's with few actual rebuilds being CW44-6's. The only thing that came about from the 7HDL's is that the prime movers in the ES40 & ES44 GEVO series is derived from them but still shares some similarity to the 7FDL's from the C44-9W's and AC4400CW's. This also includes the ES58 & ES59 ACI import units. The competition to the AC6000CW's being the SD90MAC-H's also failed but never lasted as long and were quickly phased out having more problems. The SD9043MAC's only stayed longer being convertibles just like the AC6044CW's.
November 18 monday 2024 8:00 till 16:00 three locomotive pull 100 coal cart weight and 40 plus is about 4000 tons plus 8000000 pound plus
I wish UP would run all EMD's as their helpers. I live in Eugene, Oregon and miss the sounds of the old tunnel motors and sd40's as they roared up the cascade pass. 42 miles of 1.8-2.6% grades at run 8 never sounded better. Now, it's basically all GE tunnel torchers and nothing else. I get it, they need all the power they can get (it's normal to have nice to ELEVEN locomotives per manifest train, and up to twelve units per oil train), but man....I really miss the deep whine of those old EMD's!
Oh I forgot to mention, the consists here are typically as followed:
Manifests: three to four units up front, four units mid-train, and two to three units pushing in the back.
Oil: two to three units on the head end, five units mid-train, and three to four units pushing on the end.
Amazing 😊
I noticed that the helper on the rear had the device on the front that allows them to uncouple on the move. Not sure what the proper terminology is. Nice catch!
Helper Link
Having ran both GE and EMD, I'll take GE every single time.
Nice can they hook while its moving
Ah at the end!
on a curve too....😲😲
Why no middle engine?
Nice horn.
Still Rolling Strong 💪
2-stoke EMDs win the battle in gorgeous thunderous sound every day, no questions asked. GE might be better at doing the job, I'd choose EMDs any and every day if I was a loco engineer.
Why is there ac and dc 4400’s what’s the main reason/difference
Alternating current (ac) vs direct current (dc) referring to type of electricity used by the traction motors. 4400 refers to the horsepower.
HHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAVE!!!!!!
I like the SD70ACUs better than the SD40Es, but not as much as the SD80MACs.
The 80MACS we're beasts ahead of their time and should definitely be brought back into service to help heavy coal loads and such over mountains.
The SD80MAC's were far better units and still retain the title of being the most reliable units with high end horsepower. The AC6000CW's and SD90MAC-H's failed with every aspect of mechanical reliability. EPA regulations including higher costs and useless warranty from EMD is what retired and discontinued the SD80MAC's. Norfolk Southern was never planning to rebuild them. The SD70ACU's are nice but inevitably had alot of frame issues. Union Pacific undertightened the fuel tanks on their SD9043MAC's which wasn't part of the initial design that EMD did for them. It was the same "floating" method as they did for the SD80MAC's. The same scheme is what they did with the SD90MAC-H's. That's why numerous units, mainly the SD9043MAC's, had fractured frames over time. Norfolk Southern made an expensive mistake acquiring those units from Union Pacific. One of the benefits was Mitsubishi electronics replacing the Siemens electronics. Surprisingly some of the PRLX SD70ACU's that were sold to them by Norfolk Southern have officially been purchased by Ferromex. Who knows how long any of them will survive or if they can figure out how to modify and correct the issues with the frames and fuel tanks that originated from Union Pacific.
looks heavy
To the comment that said NS was cheap; I may or may not agree. But if I had my way, I would like to see the [C&O (2666) Allegany] steam engine, pulling a monster coal train, by "itself" But, I guess that's PRR & wouldn't be cost effective. At any rate, I very much enjoyed the video.
In my opinion the world economy is running thanks to Diesel Engines...!
The engineer in the back waved.
Was that Henry?
Sadly NS SD70ACu no longer service anymore I think sold to Progress Rail
They're still in use for helper service
The sold a handful not all of them
Too bad, cause they could have had 10,000 HP on the rear with 80 MACs
I know that this Video is somewhat old, but it sounds like NS at the time was using Conrail's horsepower calculations: ~ 1-hp./Ton. If we just go by 15,000-Tons, the power was 1.16-hp./ton - simply insufficient to tackle grades. I know that it's easy for me to talk, but they would have been better-off splicing another 8,800-hp. mid-consist.
NS is cheap? Probably could have used 3 up front and 3 on back.
Simple solution: Screw Tier 4 and get SD90MAC's.
And before anybody says: "But NS made them into SD70ACU's!"
They converted SD9043MAC's, not SD90MACS.
@bill hammond iii True, but the same engine is used in the sd70 t4 and it doesn't have the same issues as before, so just take the new and improved version but raise back to 6000
@bill hammond iii Well what I was suggesting is basically for emd to bring back the locomotive for sale, not rebuild options
There are missing 2 PDUs in the middle for this train to move faster and safer.
Not necessarily safer
They can't run over 100 because it will pull out drawhead or centersill.
When I listen to the train moving and the rails singing, it's annoying to hear the cameras clicking in the background. Otherwise great video.
Gravity is horrible.
The first video is 2 GE's the slaves are emd's .,Because they pull better.
The SD70s are pushing and manned. They aren’t slave units
Those are manned helpers on the rear
4400hp or 8800hp is irrelevant. It's all about tractive effort. There's Dash-9s with 386000 lbs or something like that and then regular AC44s and Heavier than standard AC44s with 432000 lbs. More weight, better adhesion and pulling power even though they all have 4400hp. So just looking at total amount of HP doesn't tell much.
👍🙋🏻♂️
It would lead someone to believe the higher horsepower generator could put more power to the prime movers though but depending on the model it's all over the place I'm sure. I know most hover around between 90k and 130k these days. Actually om thinking of older models . The sd90mac had three figures and the highest continuous tractive effort was around 165k which is insane.
@@jordanalexander615 well sd90 was 6000 hp! But SD70ACes are almost there as 90mac , so are ET44AH units close to AC 6000!
Look at the shunting working power,,
There's GP40-2 and sometimes two slugs, ( increase in traction power with 8 tm or 12 from same 3000 hp prime mover and alternator)
I think ex UP U50C had 448000 lbs, GTEL Big Blow have 442000 lbs each.
You are confusing tractive effort with weight. The Dash-9 weighs about 425,000 lbs and produces a maximum of 142,000 lbs of tractive effort starting and 105,000 lbs continuous.
/
Rescued by EMD that GE junk couldn't make it!
What do you mean “rescued”? That’s standard operating procedure for NS coal trains in mountainous areas. I live in Roanoke VA and that’s exactly what the NS coal trains are setup like.