Changing management wouldn’t fix the team. It will still be bad. They need to rebuild, whether it’s today or tomorrow. The farm system is empty, the MLB roster is bad. There’s nobody coming to save them. No future super stars. Their best player, Vlad, who is a top player in the league, has not made a difference. He can’t do it alone.
"We have thought of exploring the possibility of the concept of entertaining the idea of having a conversation about the reality of having an interview to discuss that scenario."
I think some of us at least myself are skeptical ross atkins is going to spend the money necessary to land a santander or teo. Of course i still believe a full rebuild is the logical course of action but that ship has sailed. I understand that would be shatkins admitting failure so they wont do a rebuild. So they will try to use cheque book baseball to piecemeal a roster to finish .500. They are set to lose some significant pitchers and position players over next 2 years and not much coming up from the farm. Before this team can right itself which will take years a change in leadership is necessary.
You absolutely nailed this comment. Not much in the farm and to fill the major league roster they need to spend in an expensive market. We are going to have to let go of big names, get comfortable holding our breaths after the 5th inning. In order to make it as painful as possible we need to start now(rebuild) and I don't trust this front office. I don't think anyone can. I don't trust they will push to get the best deal with the players they will need to trade and in return get good players ok decent ones that will be benefical to us.
@cdncygirl thanks alot. Some fans get mad when I want to do rebuild. A wise gm would have traded bo and vlad at trade deadline for 6 or 7 prospects to start restocking farm maybe even gausman or bassit back then. This mgmt can't do that. Would be their death warrant. I'm old enough to remember the 80s and early 90s we had a great farm system!
History shows they over pay for mid tier free agents because it’s hard to get anyone to come to another country, especially on a bottom 5 team with a bottom 5 farm system. History doesn’t show them keeping anyone who requires over paying at top tier. Or convincing any top tier free agents to come here. Expectations are far too high & not reality. Ohtani & Soto were never considering Toronto. Their agents used Toronto media to boost Dodgers & Mets offers. Welcome back to reality, friends.
It’s not just about price. Better teams are going to offer similar money to the best two remaining home runs threat outfielders left on the board. Teo isn’t coming back & although Santander is exactly what they need.. if they could move Springer. He’d be going from a good team to a bad team in the same division. That’s a hard sell. Let alone Teo winning a World Series, to come back to a sub .500. They’re both already fully aware of what the Jays are & can do. It’s a losing battle.
Remember the new CBA that goes into effect two years from now. Luxury tax threshold will increase, and who knows what player salaries will look like. The Gimenez $23.5M salary escalation doesn't happen until the new CBA goes into effect. I heard somewhere that after a contract is traded, the luxury tax amount of a contract is spread out evenly, and Gimenez counts as about $15M towards the luxury tax every year of his contract now? Can someone please confirm?
Yes. There aren’t many available, & they cost a lot more than defensive only types. Which then gets driven up by competitive teams bidding against each other. Bad teams aren’t where those players want to go.
I think they'll trade Bichette just before the 2025 trade deadline, when his market value will hopefully be higher (assuming that his stats are good). Giménez will move over to shortstop, and Wagner can take over at second base. Possible candidates for a Bichette trade would be Marcell Ozuna (Braves) or Josh Naylor (Guardians), both are free agents for 2026. Another option is the Oakland (Sacramento) A's Brent Rooker (arbitration eligible in 2025).
Jays wouldn’t trade for Naylor, they just traded with them for Gimenez with a 1B Horwitz. Who they then traded to pirates immediately. Horwitz could’ve just replaced Naylor in that trade in the first place.
The name Rowdy Tellez is starting to float around, now that Spencer Horwitz has left the team. Sounds like a Ross Atkins move, like Vogelbach 2.0 (Although I like Rowdy more than Vogelbach.)
Not everyone is a super star just because they’re average on a bad team. Horwitz didn’t show super star 2nd base potential. He showed decent hitting for a 1B / DH that didn’t have a spot on the roster.
@@DepthFromAbove I was surprised Horwitz was even used at 2B. Devon White had been working with him in Buffalo the previous season or two on playing corner OF, due to being blocked at 1B. I've liked his bat ever since he caught my eye in 2022, and I've always regarded him as good trade fodder.
After two poor seasons at the plate that's a giant IF and the Jays don't have a good track record recently at improving bats. Usually it's the opposite. I think this contract is going to age like milk since it's back loaded especially since they will owe 3 seasons at 23.5 million. That's nuts
@@leam89 New CBA goes into effect right before that salary hike, which might increase player salaries across the board. That price still seems steep, though. When I saw the signing, the stolen bases got me excited. He stole 30. The Jays as a team had 72, and ranked 27th in MLB. Opposing pitchers have been too relaxed and comfortable against the Jays with no running game.
@Dulcimerist yeah it might but you can't assume and there will probably be a lockout. yeah I like the stolen bases as well but you don't pay that much for stolen bases. I get the upside but it's also not what they needed most which is hitting so it's a bit confusing. Atkins doesn't lack confidence though as he keeps doubling down on things that don't work
Not usually how sports works. They traded for the 2nd best defensive 2B to pair with their 2 time back to back gold glove team. The only thing they’re good at. He also had 30 stolen bases, which is half their total last season, by himself. They needed to steal more bases. He wasn’t traded for to boost their low home run output. He’s the best 2B on the roster. His biggest downside is his future price tag if he continues to decline in hitting.
Resigning Garcia was an embarrassing desperation. He’s 34, injury prone, & played poorly to end the year. But the blue jays bullpen is one of the worst in the league & they’re hoping & praying he gets back to a sub 4 ERA & wins over the casual fan base’s nostalgia. Garcia has played well for Toronto in the past, including last year.
@DepthFromAbove for another bullpen arm. Sandlin holds a lot of weight in that trade. It wasn't Horowitz for Gimenez, it was Horowitz for Sandlin...which is the price for a mid level RP. Gimenez was for the prospect, and salary retention. No way the Jays make that trade without Sandlin.
@@eshep71Blue Jays got the better of that trade. 2nd best defensive 2B in the AL because of the salary dump. &the sub 4 era reliever. I’m just pointing out, there wasn’t more to be thrown in. You’re not getting multiple MLB quality relievers from the same team. &Jays don’t have any prospects to add. Which is why Horwitz was included.
There are rumors that the Blue Jays rule 5 draft pick isn't a real person, but is actually a fictitious person a high school kid created as a prank: Angel Bastardo of Moron, Venezuela
It’s a free flyer on a good arm that won’t impact the MLB roster this season. They’ve been trying to acquire 100MPH relievers for a couple seasons now. Unfortunately he has a 4+ era in double A so he’s got no right to be on a MLB roster. Which he needs to be on or they lose him. Not sure it’s a meaningful move at all.
JWS59. Hi Scott enjoy your Show. A quick two part question do you think that the gm of the Jays should use the Boris way when they trade Bo. What I mean is the gm.of the Jays should phone the gm of the Braves and say this is who I want for Bo and if he says no then say I am going to talk to Philadelphia and I will take the best offer. The question is do you think the brave will over pay to get Bo so the Phillies don't get him Sorry if that was a long statement. L
Always nice having a lovely lady join the show and bring some balance !! Great episode!! 1) Bo has to be Traded before the season...maximinze return imo. 2) Vladdy probably needs the same treatment cause he is a RedSox or Met next Winter regardless. Might as well pull the bandaid off. 3) Rogers steps in and shitcans the entire FO...Click to take over.... 4) New FO trades some starters etc...and the REBUILD is a go. Boy oh boy is the Rogers Centre gonna be empty in this situation...but honestly its only a matter of time before it happens. And if by some Miracle ... they sign Vlad to the 450Million dollar deal...holy crap what is he working with. I truly think this team is still gonna stink for a few years until they turn around the farm etc. So really does Vlad wanna do that and put up with it. I just dont know. The entire situation stinks!!! Probably just best for all parties to accept the rebuild and move on.
Signing Vlad doesn’t magically make this roster better. He’s already been here & they keep getting worse. Overpaying Vlad who by far the best player on this bad team, takes that money away from upgrading everywhere else. Which needs upgrading everywhere. Doomed in every scenario.
That is a really good point about not being able to retain Vlad. If he's not locked up why would you not trade bim before the start of the season and/or sign expensive FA's. If Vlad isnt here long term this has to be a selling offseason.
They’ve been rebuilding since last offseason. They let every free agent go last offseason. They traded every free agent at the trade deadline. If they’re losing coming this upcoming trade deadline, Gausman, Springer, Bassitt & possibly Bo & or Vlad will all likely be moved, too, on their last year deals. Because this management keeps failing & mishandled the entire roster, it is a sell off. Atkins is also trying to save his job in the meantime with moves like Gimenez. But just because you want to trade players away, doesn’t mean anyone is offering what you value them at.
If the Jays go all in for Ohtani at $700M, all in on Soto for $760M apparently, then how could they possibly justify to their fanbase that they can't extend Vlad, a homegrown talent. If they fail to do this their fanbase is mostly gone. I don't think Rogers can afford to let that happen, ignore the two idiots running the team.
@@mantistoboggan5960so all your knowledge does in fact come from tweets? Not reality? Sports history? Basic math? Feel free to share with us, why you think Ohtani would choose Toronto over Dodgers? Soto over Yankees & Mets? Or how the Jays could afford them, but not Vlad & Bo. Or literally anyone else already at the luxury tax & needing 5-10 more players across the starting rotation, bullpen & outfield with a bottom 5 MLB roster & farm system. I’ll wait, smart guy.
@@DepthFromAbove Okay let's use common sense and not opinions. The Jays made those offers according to multiple baseball insiders with direct and factual information related to the situation at hand. Obviously, it's your opinion that these insiders are lying or wrong. I'll use common sense and side with the experts instead of the random guy on UA-cam. Why would any player choose Toronto over any other team? They have nothing to offer other than money. Not paying Vlad and Bo and offering all this money to external options who would most likely never play in Toronto was my initial point that you failed to comprehend. The Jays need an elite SP, 3 elite RP, 2 elite bats, and a backup catcher and now have less than $20M to spend. They also have no farm system which you've aptly pointed out. You're barking up the wrong tree, smart guy.
@@mantistoboggan5960Right. We agreed, & I fully understood. You’re just adding an incorrect narrative into your calculation. Did the Jays likely offer Ohtani & Soto contracts? Absolutely. So did 30 other teams. The Jays are a top 10 payroll, top 5 ownership wealth team that should be in on every top guy every year. Even if they’ve never landed one yet 👀 Facts? Soto’s agent started the bidding at 10+ years/600+ million. Did jays offer 16/760? No. Neither did Yankees. For all the reasons we both agree on. They not only couldn’t afford it, but they wouldn’t be any better if they had. They’d have to trade away more players already at the luxury tax & still needing 5-10 more players. It was never happening for many reasons. Reports? Jays are all in on everyone, every season. Like every other team’s social media. Losing out on Max Fried? Who was now reported as, never having been offered a contract from them? It’s all media hype dude. Tweets, clicks, delusional casual hope, &ad revenue. That is my opinion. &also, the truth. Next up? Corbin Burns.
I consider the Jays cheap because they are usually not willing to spend what our top players are worth and thus we lose them to other teams (eg Teoscar, Simeon, Vladdy?).
The only value trade I could see, is a top reliever straight up because relievers are not as valuable & can become a completely different value from one season to the next. Bo for closer Devin Williams straight up, would be realistic. If Brewers wanted him / to move Williams. Big if.
@DepthFromAbove absolutely but the lineup doesn't really get any better with Gimenez and they are likely heading into a rebuild and will likely be burdened by that contract. They are going to be paying 23.5 million for multiple years for a glove first infielder. Leo Jiminez proved he can field the position. His hitting isn't that great but neither is Giminez's. Atkins has no idea what he is doing.
@@leam89Atkins is trying to save his job whether they’re good or not. Gimenez was available, with 3 gold & platinum gloves, which sounds nice to the owner & is an easy sell to fans. Or at least, I’m sure they thought. His 2022 season was a .297 batting average & 17 home runs. That has declined to .252 & 9 last year, but they’ll believe they can fix him. &those numbers could be a lot worse, like Leo Jimenez .229, & not gold glove calibre defence. Don’t make the mistake of thinking these blue jays triple a bench players have proven themselves super stars, let alone MLB calibre starters yet. They haven’t. Horwitz was expendable without a position to play & sold high. Decent trade minus the salary if they can’t fix him. But, 2nd best defensive 2B’s in the AL’s don’t come this cheap if there wasn’t some big drawback. Flying under the radar is that they also added a sub 4 ERA reliever in that deal which they desperately need.
@@DepthFromAbove there's lots of relievers with sub 4 ERA's available and most fans don't seem all that happy with the trade. Saying Leo doesn't have a gold glove is stupid because he has less than one season in the MLB. And I totally believe Atkins is dumb and foolish enough to think they can fix his hitting. The trade is fine if they go out and sign two sluggers and a legit closer but they've never proven they can go out and address all their needs. The current projected starting lineup is horrifyingly pathetic.
@@DepthFromAbove he's never had a below average season at the plate. Sure he hasn't always been consistent there aren't many players who are in the MVP race every season. Even Halladay wasn't always peak.
@@leam89 right. Vlad’s the best player on this team, & one of the best in the league. He’s not been consistent. & the last player I can think of that the Jays developed into a consistent star player, not starter, was Roy. Unless you count Bo who was one of the best hitters in the league 3 years in a row. Kirk too has been great, but inconsistent. This team has always traded prospects for other teams cast offs. Who then leave. You could name more players the Jays drafted & traded away that became good elsewhere than developed & we’re good here. The irony here, is we’ve seen some of the best young players in a long time under Atkins, but also we’ve seen them fail to become consistent & very likely, leave all the same.
They need to upgrade both LF & RF & both should be power bats. They could get those, but they’re not getting them over actually competitive teams. &there’s only 2 top tier ones left. Neither is young, good defensively, nor a good price. One was already traded away for those exact reasons & not coming back. Not every offseason gives every team what they need.
Great to see Baseball Jenn once again.
Excellent analysis….covered all the angles.
Jays' greatest need is a new front office.
Changing management wouldn’t fix the team. It will still be bad. They need to rebuild, whether it’s today or tomorrow. The farm system is empty, the MLB roster is bad. There’s nobody coming to save them. No future super stars. Their best player, Vlad, who is a top player in the league, has not made a difference. He can’t do it alone.
"We have thought of exploring the possibility of the concept of entertaining the idea of having a conversation about the reality of having an interview to discuss that scenario."
They have a concept of a plan? 😊
I think some of us at least myself are skeptical ross atkins is going to spend the money necessary to land a santander or teo. Of course i still believe a full rebuild is the logical course of action but that ship has sailed. I understand that would be shatkins admitting failure so they wont do a rebuild. So they will try to use cheque book baseball to piecemeal a roster to finish .500. They are set to lose some significant pitchers and position players over next 2 years and not much coming up from the farm. Before this team can right itself which will take years a change in leadership is necessary.
You absolutely nailed this comment. Not much in the farm and to fill the major league roster they need to spend in an expensive market. We are going to have to let go of big names, get comfortable holding our breaths after the 5th inning. In order to make it as painful as possible we need to start now(rebuild) and I don't trust this front office. I don't think anyone can. I don't trust they will push to get the best deal with the players they will need to trade and in return get good players ok decent ones that will be benefical to us.
@cdncygirl thanks alot. Some fans get mad when I want to do rebuild. A wise gm would have traded bo and vlad at trade deadline for 6 or 7 prospects to start restocking farm maybe even gausman or bassit back then. This mgmt can't do that. Would be their death warrant. I'm old enough to remember the 80s and early 90s we had a great farm system!
History shows they over pay for mid tier free agents because it’s hard to get anyone to come to another country, especially on a bottom 5 team with a bottom 5 farm system. History doesn’t show them keeping anyone who requires over paying at top tier. Or convincing any top tier free agents to come here. Expectations are far too high & not reality. Ohtani & Soto were never considering Toronto. Their agents used Toronto media to boost Dodgers & Mets offers. Welcome back to reality, friends.
It’s not just about price. Better teams are going to offer similar money to the best two remaining home runs threat outfielders left on the board. Teo isn’t coming back & although Santander is exactly what they need.. if they could move Springer. He’d be going from a good team to a bad team in the same division. That’s a hard sell. Let alone Teo winning a World Series, to come back to a sub .500. They’re both already fully aware of what the Jays are & can do. It’s a losing battle.
Remember the new CBA that goes into effect two years from now. Luxury tax threshold will increase, and who knows what player salaries will look like.
The Gimenez $23.5M salary escalation doesn't happen until the new CBA goes into effect.
I heard somewhere that after a contract is traded, the luxury tax amount of a contract is spread out evenly, and Gimenez counts as about $15M towards the luxury tax every year of his contract now? Can someone please confirm?
Simple question: Is it that frickin' hard to get ONE guy who can reliably hit 30 homers?
"That's low hanging fruit " - Ross Atkins .
No one is talking about the Blue jays computer . When is that going to get replaced ?
Yes. There aren’t many available, & they cost a lot more than defensive only types. Which then gets driven up by competitive teams bidding against each other. Bad teams aren’t where those players want to go.
I think they'll trade Bichette just before the 2025 trade deadline, when his market value will hopefully be higher (assuming that his stats are good). Giménez will move over to shortstop, and Wagner can take over at second base. Possible candidates for a Bichette trade would be Marcell Ozuna (Braves) or Josh Naylor (Guardians), both are free agents for 2026. Another option is the Oakland (Sacramento) A's Brent Rooker (arbitration eligible in 2025).
Jays wouldn’t trade for Naylor, they just traded with them for Gimenez with a 1B Horwitz. Who they then traded to pirates immediately. Horwitz could’ve just replaced Naylor in that trade in the first place.
The name Rowdy Tellez is starting to float around, now that Spencer Horwitz has left the team.
Sounds like a Ross Atkins move, like Vogelbach 2.0 (Although I like Rowdy more than Vogelbach.)
At one point, Tellez and Vogelbach were BOTH on the Blue Jays
Not everyone is a super star just because they’re average on a bad team. Horwitz didn’t show super star 2nd base potential. He showed decent hitting for a 1B / DH that didn’t have a spot on the roster.
@@DepthFromAbove I was surprised Horwitz was even used at 2B. Devon White had been working with him in Buffalo the previous season or two on playing corner OF, due to being blocked at 1B. I've liked his bat ever since he caught my eye in 2022, and I've always regarded him as good trade fodder.
If we can get 2022 Gimenez (MVP-6) this is highway robbery.
After two poor seasons at the plate that's a giant IF and the Jays don't have a good track record recently at improving bats. Usually it's the opposite. I think this contract is going to age like milk since it's back loaded especially since they will owe 3 seasons at 23.5 million. That's nuts
@@leam89 New CBA goes into effect right before that salary hike, which might increase player salaries across the board. That price still seems steep, though.
When I saw the signing, the stolen bases got me excited. He stole 30. The Jays as a team had 72, and ranked 27th in MLB. Opposing pitchers have been too relaxed and comfortable against the Jays with no running game.
@Dulcimerist yeah it might but you can't assume and there will probably be a lockout. yeah I like the stolen bases as well but you don't pay that much for stolen bases. I get the upside but it's also not what they needed most which is hitting so it's a bit confusing. Atkins doesn't lack confidence though as he keeps doubling down on things that don't work
Not usually how sports works. They traded for the 2nd best defensive 2B to pair with their 2 time back to back gold glove team. The only thing they’re good at. He also had 30 stolen bases, which is half their total last season, by himself. They needed to steal more bases. He wasn’t traded for to boost their low home run output. He’s the best 2B on the roster. His biggest downside is his future price tag if he continues to decline in hitting.
Yimi had elbow problems in seattle at end of year too tho.
Those problems started in Toronto last year. He got shutdown by Seattle after a 6 era. So that's a question mark your right
Resigning Garcia was an embarrassing desperation. He’s 34, injury prone, & played poorly to end the year. But the blue jays bullpen is one of the worst in the league & they’re hoping & praying he gets back to a sub 4 ERA & wins over the casual fan base’s nostalgia. Garcia has played well for Toronto in the past, including last year.
They should have thrown in more prospects and taken one more arm from their bullpen.
For who? Horwitz? He wasn’t even worth Gimenez, if Guardians didn’t need to move his salary.
@DepthFromAbove for another bullpen arm.
Sandlin holds a lot of weight in that trade. It wasn't Horowitz for Gimenez, it was Horowitz for Sandlin...which is the price for a mid level RP.
Gimenez was for the prospect, and salary retention.
No way the Jays make that trade without Sandlin.
@@eshep71Blue Jays got the better of that trade. 2nd best defensive 2B in the AL because of the salary dump. &the sub 4 era reliever. I’m just pointing out, there wasn’t more to be thrown in. You’re not getting multiple MLB quality relievers from the same team. &Jays don’t have any prospects to add. Which is why Horwitz was included.
There are rumors that the Blue Jays rule 5 draft pick isn't a real person, but is actually a fictitious person a high school kid created as a prank:
Angel Bastardo of Moron, Venezuela
I think it proves the maturity level of the Blue Jays analytics department
It’s a free flyer on a good arm that won’t impact the MLB roster this season. They’ve been trying to acquire 100MPH relievers for a couple seasons now. Unfortunately he has a 4+ era in double A so he’s got no right to be on a MLB roster. Which he needs to be on or they lose him. Not sure it’s a meaningful move at all.
@@DepthFromAbove He only has to be on it for 90 days. He can be on the 60-day IL the rest of the time. I guess that's the reasoning.
If Vladdy can repeat what he did last year, he gets at least $600 million guaranteed.
The highest 1B contract in MLB history would be 350. Could be 400 with overbidding. If Vlad moves to 3B, then his numbers go up to 600 like Soto.
JWS59. Hi Scott enjoy your Show. A quick two part question do you think that the gm of the Jays should use the Boris way when they trade Bo. What I mean is the gm.of the Jays should phone the gm of the Braves and say this is who I want for Bo and if he says no then say I am going to talk to Philadelphia and I will take the best offer. The question is do you think the brave will over pay to get Bo so the Phillies don't get him
Sorry if that was a long statement.
L
Always nice having a lovely lady join the show and bring some balance !! Great episode!!
1) Bo has to be Traded before the season...maximinze return imo.
2) Vladdy probably needs the same treatment cause he is a RedSox or Met next Winter regardless. Might as well pull the bandaid off.
3) Rogers steps in and shitcans the entire FO...Click to take over....
4) New FO trades some starters etc...and the REBUILD is a go.
Boy oh boy is the Rogers Centre gonna be empty in this situation...but honestly its only a matter of time before it happens.
And if by some Miracle ... they sign Vlad to the 450Million dollar deal...holy crap what is he working with. I truly think this team is still gonna stink for a few years until they turn around the farm etc. So really does Vlad wanna do that and put up with it. I just dont know. The entire situation stinks!!! Probably just best for all parties to accept the rebuild and move on.
Signing Vlad doesn’t magically make this roster better. He’s already been here & they keep getting worse. Overpaying Vlad who by far the best player on this bad team, takes that money away from upgrading everywhere else. Which needs upgrading everywhere. Doomed in every scenario.
Pay Vlad and Bo. Keep our best players on our team.
That is a really good point about not being able to retain Vlad. If he's not locked up why would you not trade bim before the start of the season and/or sign expensive FA's. If Vlad isnt here long term this has to be a selling offseason.
They’ve been rebuilding since last offseason. They let every free agent go last offseason. They traded every free agent at the trade deadline. If they’re losing coming this upcoming trade deadline, Gausman, Springer, Bassitt & possibly Bo & or Vlad will all likely be moved, too, on their last year deals. Because this management keeps failing & mishandled the entire roster, it is a sell off. Atkins is also trying to save his job in the meantime with moves like Gimenez. But just because you want to trade players away, doesn’t mean anyone is offering what you value them at.
If the Jays go all in for Ohtani at $700M, all in on Soto for $760M apparently, then how could they possibly justify to their fanbase that they can't extend Vlad, a homegrown talent. If they fail to do this their fanbase is mostly gone. I don't think Rogers can afford to let that happen, ignore the two idiots running the team.
They weren’t all in on either of them, let alone for those prices. Stop believing random tweets.
@@DepthFromAbove I'll believe Passan over random UA-camrs with little to no baseball knowledge. Thanks.
@@mantistoboggan5960so all your knowledge does in fact come from tweets? Not reality? Sports history? Basic math? Feel free to share with us, why you think Ohtani would choose Toronto over Dodgers? Soto over Yankees & Mets? Or how the Jays could afford them, but not Vlad & Bo. Or literally anyone else already at the luxury tax & needing 5-10 more players across the starting rotation, bullpen & outfield with a bottom 5 MLB roster & farm system. I’ll wait, smart guy.
@@DepthFromAbove Okay let's use common sense and not opinions. The Jays made those offers according to multiple baseball insiders with direct and factual information related to the situation at hand. Obviously, it's your opinion that these insiders are lying or wrong. I'll use common sense and side with the experts instead of the random guy on UA-cam. Why would any player choose Toronto over any other team? They have nothing to offer other than money. Not paying Vlad and Bo and offering all this money to external options who would most likely never play in Toronto was my initial point that you failed to comprehend. The Jays need an elite SP, 3 elite RP, 2 elite bats, and a backup catcher and now have less than $20M to spend. They also have no farm system which you've aptly pointed out. You're barking up the wrong tree, smart guy.
@@mantistoboggan5960Right. We agreed, & I fully understood. You’re just adding an incorrect narrative into your calculation. Did the Jays likely offer Ohtani & Soto contracts? Absolutely. So did 30 other teams. The Jays are a top 10 payroll, top 5 ownership wealth team that should be in on every top guy every year. Even if they’ve never landed one yet 👀 Facts? Soto’s agent started the bidding at 10+ years/600+ million. Did jays offer 16/760? No. Neither did Yankees. For all the reasons we both agree on. They not only couldn’t afford it, but they wouldn’t be any better if they had. They’d have to trade away more players already at the luxury tax & still needing 5-10 more players. It was never happening for many reasons. Reports? Jays are all in on everyone, every season. Like every other team’s social media. Losing out on Max Fried? Who was now reported as, never having been offered a contract from them? It’s all media hype dude. Tweets, clicks, delusional casual hope, &ad revenue. That is my opinion. &also, the truth. Next up? Corbin Burns.
I consider the Jays cheap because they are usually not willing to spend what our top players are worth and thus we lose them to other teams (eg Teoscar, Simeon, Vladdy?).
They overpay for mid tier. They don’t overpay for top tier. They weren’t getting Ohtani or Soto.
Say goodbye to Bo and Vladi won't finish this year
Blue jays will be Oakland A'S of the east gor a decade with these clowns running them
Trade Bo?
Don't tease me like that. That would be wonderful!
But I dont think anyone is interested enough to give us much value for him.
The only value trade I could see, is a top reliever straight up because relievers are not as valuable & can become a completely different value from one season to the next. Bo for closer Devin Williams straight up, would be realistic. If Brewers wanted him / to move Williams. Big if.
Another automatic out.
The Jays already have multiple players who can play SS. They didnt need to take on a back loaded contract for another fielding first player
None that are good, or even above average. Their triple A roster was mid. Their triple A roster is now a bottom 5 MLB roster.
@DepthFromAbove absolutely but the lineup doesn't really get any better with Gimenez and they are likely heading into a rebuild and will likely be burdened by that contract. They are going to be paying 23.5 million for multiple years for a glove first infielder. Leo Jiminez proved he can field the position. His hitting isn't that great but neither is Giminez's. Atkins has no idea what he is doing.
@@leam89Atkins is trying to save his job whether they’re good or not. Gimenez was available, with 3 gold & platinum gloves, which sounds nice to the owner & is an easy sell to fans. Or at least, I’m sure they thought. His 2022 season was a .297 batting average & 17 home runs. That has declined to .252 & 9 last year, but they’ll believe they can fix him. &those numbers could be a lot worse, like Leo Jimenez .229, & not gold glove calibre defence. Don’t make the mistake of thinking these blue jays triple a bench players have proven themselves super stars, let alone MLB calibre starters yet. They haven’t. Horwitz was expendable without a position to play & sold high. Decent trade minus the salary if they can’t fix him. But, 2nd best defensive 2B’s in the AL’s don’t come this cheap if there wasn’t some big drawback. Flying under the radar is that they also added a sub 4 ERA reliever in that deal which they desperately need.
@@DepthFromAbove there's lots of relievers with sub 4 ERA's available and most fans don't seem all that happy with the trade. Saying Leo doesn't have a gold glove is stupid because he has less than one season in the MLB. And I totally believe Atkins is dumb and foolish enough to think they can fix his hitting. The trade is fine if they go out and sign two sluggers and a legit closer but they've never proven they can go out and address all their needs. The current projected starting lineup is horrifyingly pathetic.
Since when do players improve at the plate when coming to the Jays? It's usually the opposite. Saying he will improve to 2022 numbers is a giant IF
Jays haven’t developed a consistent star since Roy Halladay.
@DepthFromAbove starters? Because Vlad exists
@@leam89consistent.
@@DepthFromAbove he's never had a below average season at the plate. Sure he hasn't always been consistent there aren't many players who are in the MVP race every season. Even Halladay wasn't always peak.
@@leam89 right. Vlad’s the best player on this team, & one of the best in the league. He’s not been consistent. & the last player I can think of that the Jays developed into a consistent star player, not starter, was Roy. Unless you count Bo who was one of the best hitters in the league 3 years in a row. Kirk too has been great, but inconsistent. This team has always traded prospects for other teams cast offs. Who then leave. You could name more players the Jays drafted & traded away that became good elsewhere than developed & we’re good here. The irony here, is we’ve seen some of the best young players in a long time under Atkins, but also we’ve seen them fail to become consistent & very likely, leave all the same.
The current lineup is pathetic. They need two big bats to even compete. If they trade Bo then they need 3
They need to upgrade both LF & RF & both should be power bats. They could get those, but they’re not getting them over actually competitive teams. &there’s only 2 top tier ones left. Neither is young, good defensively, nor a good price. One was already traded away for those exact reasons & not coming back. Not every offseason gives every team what they need.