I think the general advantage you get there is a slightly different invulnerability window compared to neutral get up. there is much more lag when you airdodge into the ground, but pros are really good at timing their attacks for neutral get up. You can mix up the timings too by waiting a bit longer, or, like in one of the next recoveries, mkleo waits for an attack to airdodge through. playing against this, a lot of times when my friends do this, my brain after seeing the first few frames of jump recovery goes into anti-air mode and I will try to jump after them or position to hit a landing, so if you react to that you will be too late to punish the airdodge. In summery, it is inferior to neutral get up, but a valid mix up.
Incineroar vs byleth has to be my favorite mu for byleth. Playing against them is so fun, bc you know what they want. Its just a matter of how well you can maneuver around their attempts to grab or revenge. Its really explosive
It's risk/reward is pretty good, why not use it? That's like saying "MKLeo try not to spam nair challenge". Edit: he does use it a bit too much in games 3 and 4.
@@malcolmfletcher2659those are such weird things to compare. Using nair is not particularly risky. If your revenge does not work you are in a terrible position
Skyjay is a bit of a masher lol. Watch how frequently he uses side B too. It's a good move, but give him a bit of space and he really shows how risky he plays
It's just the nature of the character. The risk/reward is generally favorable for using Revenge, and Skyjay is a very talented player that knows how to get the most out of Incineroar. Much of the time that he's "spamming" Revenge are on reaction/smart reads anyways
I think Skyjay is a bit overrated. Sure he wins games cuz he knows how to kill with 4-5 interactions and he can push advantage state from center stage like no other, but I do think his gameplay is limited. He relies too much on down B during disadvantage and he realizes that side B is so broken that oftentimes he spams that move whenever his opponent holds a shield. His tech options are surprisingly predictable to the point that even I, a random online player, can read them. And he spams down tilt at the ledge, which I as an online player would do the scrub option and do ledge get-up attack. Still don't get why more pro players don't punish him for that. I wouldn't be surprised if Skyjay in the near future starts to get bodies once people figure out his weaknesses. Although I am not a pro player, I still can identify his weaknesses pretty easily, and if I can identify them, so can pro players sooner than later. Another positive from Skyjay is that his recovery game is god-like and he does edge guard the ***k out of his opponents, which again allows him to steal stocks from opponents. Also got to consider the fear factor as well.
Everythings you said is understandable but you must realize he is slow af and asily gets outbeat by faster chars, and not only that, he's a grappler its his specialty. You can't say he spams it, I mean have you seen online incins?? They spam. If anything sky was not at his best here. He rushed way to much. Also leo gets read like a book next matchup. The adaptationsl was crazy.
@@DARKALEX45 Okay I think what you said in this comment makes sense. It is not easy for a slow character like Incineroar and that he needs to play a specific style, which is working btw, to win games with that character. And to be honest, I can understand the take that Skyjay was not at his best and maybe online lag had to do with his slightly slow execution. Or maybe I am getting better at processing the game but I felt like this match seemed too similar to elite smash games. I have also seen Skyjay play one dimensional even when he was having success at Summit. Once Leo beat Skyjay at Battle of BC, I heard him say in the Tweek Talks podcast that he is able to play Skyjay well because he understands the incineroar matchup. It also helps that Mkleo does not get scared of Incineroar's "fear factor" probably because he is so chill all the time. But looking at the way Skyjay is playing, unless he starts becoming more ambigious, I think there will be a point where he will hit a plateau since pro players are god-like at adapting to matchups and players.
@@rockonorco8774 classic "I can't criticize a pro player if I can't beat them." it's the same mentality that allows pro players to be arrogant/predatory. skyjay is a great dude btw and in his interviews he hasn't shown to be arrogant but most smash players are arrogant and think they can say or do whatever they want because fans and players like ESAM condone this type of thinking. and we have seen what this type of things players have done...
15:37 the soul read!
The patience at the end of game 3 was insane from both players!
The first time I’ve ever came to the comments after a video and immediately had the same idea as the top comment
13:05 I keep finding more ways on how janky Byleth’s Up-B is
6:56 aswell lol
Just started playing roar def learned some new ways to recover. Very nice gameplay from a low tier character overall
1:15 to 1:21 is what is called ABSOLUTE PERFECTION. Remarkable.
I love to watch a good incineroar playing... I have troubles playing against the character but enjoy watching these matches.
I so love both of these characters! and players!
Probably a dumb question but wtf is that get up option Leo does at 14:35 and what is the advantage of doing that? Just a mix up or anything else?
I think the general advantage you get there is a slightly different invulnerability window compared to neutral get up. there is much more lag when you airdodge into the ground, but pros are really good at timing their attacks for neutral get up. You can mix up the timings too by waiting a bit longer, or, like in one of the next recoveries, mkleo waits for an attack to airdodge through. playing against this, a lot of times when my friends do this, my brain after seeing the first few frames of jump recovery goes into anti-air mode and I will try to jump after them or position to hit a landing, so if you react to that you will be too late to punish the airdodge. In summery, it is inferior to neutral get up, but a valid mix up.
@@CaNzCo Excellently put!
Never dumb to try and learn more. Good question
Kind of makes me want a Prius... (seriously)
Many hours in a room with friends, many many hours…
6:58 nahh that up B was hacking
Incineroar vs byleth has to be my favorite mu for byleth. Playing against them is so fun, bc you know what they want. Its just a matter of how well you can maneuver around their attempts to grab or revenge. Its really explosive
0 percent chance this is real. MKLeo's byleth does not move like this
みんな大好きSkyJay！
Was this friendlies? coinbox? a different tournament?
Coinbox is the online tournaments that does weekly
Skyjay try not to spam down b challenge
It's risk/reward is pretty good, why not use it? That's like saying "MKLeo try not to spam nair challenge".
Edit: he does use it a bit too much in games 3 and 4.
@@malcolmfletcher2659 So you didn't even watch the vod before commenting.
@@malcolmfletcher2659those are such weird things to compare. Using nair is not particularly risky. If your revenge does not work you are in a terrible position
Skyjay is a bit of a masher lol. Watch how frequently he uses side B too. It's a good move, but give him a bit of space and he really shows how risky he plays
It's just the nature of the character. The risk/reward is generally favorable for using Revenge, and Skyjay is a very talented player that knows how to get the most out of Incineroar. Much of the time that he's "spamming" Revenge are on reaction/smart reads anyways
I think Skyjay is a bit overrated. Sure he wins games cuz he knows how to kill with 4-5 interactions and he can push advantage state from center stage like no other, but I do think his gameplay is limited. He relies too much on down B during disadvantage and he realizes that side B is so broken that oftentimes he spams that move whenever his opponent holds a shield. His tech options are surprisingly predictable to the point that even I, a random online player, can read them. And he spams down tilt at the ledge, which I as an online player would do the scrub option and do ledge get-up attack. Still don't get why more pro players don't punish him for that. I wouldn't be surprised if Skyjay in the near future starts to get bodies once people figure out his weaknesses. Although I am not a pro player, I still can identify his weaknesses pretty easily, and if I can identify them, so can pro players sooner than later.
Another positive from Skyjay is that his recovery game is god-like and he does edge guard the ***k out of his opponents, which again allows him to steal stocks from opponents. Also got to consider the fear factor as well.
Everythings you said is understandable but you must realize he is slow af and asily gets outbeat by faster chars, and not only that, he's a grappler its his specialty. You can't say he spams it, I mean have you seen online incins?? They spam. If anything sky was not at his best here. He rushed way to much.
Also leo gets read like a book next matchup. The adaptationsl was crazy.
@@DARKALEX45 Okay I think what you said in this comment makes sense. It is not easy for a slow character like Incineroar and that he needs to play a specific style, which is working btw, to win games with that character. And to be honest, I can understand the take that Skyjay was not at his best and maybe online lag had to do with his slightly slow execution. Or maybe I am getting better at processing the game but I felt like this match seemed too similar to elite smash games.
I have also seen Skyjay play one dimensional even when he was having success at Summit. Once Leo beat Skyjay at Battle of BC, I heard him say in the Tweek Talks podcast that he is able to play Skyjay well because he understands the incineroar matchup. It also helps that Mkleo does not get scared of Incineroar's "fear factor" probably because he is so chill all the time. But looking at the way Skyjay is playing, unless he starts becoming more ambigious, I think there will be a point where he will hit a plateau since pro players are god-like at adapting to matchups and players.
Skyjay is limited by his character
Let’s see you try to beat him since he’s overrated! You’d get washed & if if anything he’s not even ranked high to be overrated…
@@rockonorco8774 classic "I can't criticize a pro player if I can't beat them." it's the same mentality that allows pro players to be arrogant/predatory. skyjay is a great dude btw and in his interviews he hasn't shown to be arrogant but most smash players are arrogant and think they can say or do whatever they want because fans and players like ESAM condone this type of thinking. and we have seen what this type of things players have done...