@@defundhollywood3259 na on canada they have no clue what they're talking about but the worst thing is that they try and pretend that they do. UK is the best by far
Yes but I don’t understand it. Peter tucked his pants into those socks. Is that actually cool? Looks nerdy AF to me. I have a funny feeling Peter is in the striped socks business.
@@toniroberts8117 Actually he didn't tuck his pants into the socks: the pants legs are a bit "short" because they are supposed to be straghtned when you are standing up and have no wrinkles on them, but I understand why you thought that because some people do actually tuck them in, but def not his style there
@@ryogokusama lol. I must have seen it wrong. My eyes aren’t that great and I watch this from my tiny iPhone lol. Thank god he doesn’t tuck his pants in his socks lol. That bothered me 😜
I've watched a lot of these and this is the most strange one I've seen. 1. Peter Jones getting figures wrong and not understanding the business model. 2. A 30 second awkward silence which was put in the video 3. Kelly recognised one of the girls. Strange
@@Jammy._. Dragons' Den is a soap opera, made for people who think they are above watching a soap opera. I know this because I was one of them for years. Now I just watch it as light entertainment and, it is very slick. Very well made.
Kelly: "Hi, Levi. I know you. We met at your..." Levi: "Yeah at my... [THINKING OF THE PROFESSIONAL SOUNDING DESCRIPTOR TO USE - 'Base of Operations'... 'Corporate Headquarters'...]" Kelly: "...at your Mum and Dad's." Levi: "Yeah."
And they mentioned they would 'collect' the box. Made we wonder if they aimed at London circles and niches /personal contacts in their own social class where they felt sure of success. Which is sensible marketing initially but limited and word of mouth has to sustain success to a degree.
Shipping is actually quite cheap for companies like theirs (and mine!) that operate in volume. Many of the big operators now also offer free returns to companies that do a minimum volume. It's why most sellers now offer free shipping, and for those - usually high end - that still charge for shipping this charge can provide a notable profit. Sadly it's also why your average delivery guy these days is always rushing and must work to very high delivery targets.
I think normally a clothing store where a customer is able to go in and try clothes would have much higher costs of rental, which would be much higher than costs of shipping.
Yeah, he had it in his mind that they were being returned (i.e. purchased, then disliked and brought back for a refund) when in actual fact they're just sending the customer a selection of clothes - more than most people actually want, to give them plenty of choice - and they choose what they want out of the selection.
I love how each time someone challenges the dragon's offer, they come back with 'there's a lot of work to be done' when in reality, that's quite debatable hahahaha
The dragons will do nothing lol A couple of visits to the office and a few phone calls and if the business flounders, they'll never give the company a second thought lol
I don't think this is surprising for an online business. They're obviously trying to go go for the upmarket range and have the tools to help the customers select. This isn't like an online Primark!
Deal never completed. However, they did crowdfund £400k. Company went into administration in 2018 owing almost £1M (although around half of that was to its two directors). Administrators sold the company to rivals The Chapar for £50k.
@@ninjalokust Yes. That's ABSOLUTELY true. Most men are almost autistic in their tastes and love for doing and wearing the same thing over and over again.
@@ninjalokust for me what stood out was the budget part. I could choose budget simply depending how I'm feeling about other things going on in my life. So I choose a low budget because perhaps I am suffering donor fatigue at that moment (or whatever reason for that matter), so the algorithm doesn't capture that I could perhaps spend more so they perhaps send less options or lower priced lower quality options, but days later when the package comes, I'm feeling better and willing to spend - or vice versa. Yeah. 'tis a gimmick who's novelty soon wears off
He may have been off slightly on the maths (70% return would be 4 months - not 6 months) but the logic was sound - they'd be holding stock longer on average than a retailer would. They went into forced liquidation less than 2 years after getting this invesment with £600K owed to creditors so..
@@shanecorry Yeah, Peter was under the assumption that the 70% returns were all refunds, where it's the other way round, where 30% of the items were purchased and the other 70% were simply returned to stock, just like taking clothes to a changing room and taking 70% back to the rails in the shop. He was under the thought that the customer was returning 70% of the clothes they paid for, which is obviously a lot!
@@kimskis read the reply by Sir Hingle McCringleberry. Peter thought of the returns as refunds when in fact the point of the product was that it’s like a changing room where you put back most of things you try.
@@longestcategg7097 either way you look at it, no wonder this gimmick actually failed - your customer still only buys 30% of your clothing you send to him an average. That's not a successful business rate in my book, having had some experience with fashion retail in the past
@@hamza361 umm.. .The show itself? These are not Rules that the Dragons just make up for themselves... These will be ByLaws that are part of an organization, and will involve so many moving parts.
Pretty sure it's just COI so if there is no direct conflict of interest - they can do it. It's because of stock manipulation, insider trading or not wanting to annoy their invested company. The one's I have seen where they go out it's because they are invested into the sector with a direct competitor. I think you are right though there was one where they went to Uni together and they weren't allowed to invest.
Imagine coming on to a television show about trying to get people to invest in you, and thinking that you won’t have to talk about profit margins. Happens so often, people are idiots.
Peter was right about working capital management. After airing on Dragons Den, demand went crazy. The company took on a load of debt to scale the operation, acquiring a warehouse and staff in the process. As all their cash went into stock, sales cooled off. One of the charge holders called the debt in and the company was forced into administration.
When another hopeful came in with this exact same idea they ALL kiboshed the 70% return "problem" and said it was not an investable venture. I personally tried one of these such businesses and not a single thing they came up with was anything I'd wear.
I'm not sure that other online retailers (where you pick what you want) don't have a huge number of returns. I think you might have to price it in for online clothes businesses
Absolutely love how dragons support the rich family kids. Those are the ones that need it the most! No one asked how much they invested and where the money came from and how much they have in the bank. They knew their parents are rich and wouldn't let their children go bankrupt... class act
Both of them are rich kids, not sure why they needed the den. One of them has two celeb parents and the other one's dad is literally CEO of a successful shipping company...
The Dragons didn't examine the most important part of the business.....shipping the returned 70% back and forth. If this process is not cheap and efficient, you're fucked lol To be honest, it sounds like a logistical nightmare. Imagine having to repackage all the clothes when they come back to the warehouse. Sounds like a right pain in the arse
It looks like Enclothed got sold in 2018 to a rival called The Chapar (a crowd funded organisation). The Chapar itself went into administration in 2019, then later getting taken over by new owners. However, the Chapar website just has a coming soon label still now...
Peter couldn't bring himself to say that he got it wrong, Instead "I gave you a hard time" Trying to maintain that ego must be exhausting! I still like ol' Pizza though.
This is one of my favorite DD deals. I was a little skeptical at first, but their cool demeanor and ability to clarify and get their pitch across eloquently quite impressed me.
“I want to apologize, for being a little bit controversial earlier,” not “I want to apologize for wrongly accusing your business of poor performance.” He was very kind to the astute entrepreneurs and of course, himself lmfao.
I saw the same business model but for women's clothing and they should have started with woman clothing as they are more probabilities for a woman to be interested in this. Just like beauty boxes normally start with woman brands and then if have success launch beauty product for men with the idea that the already subscribed girlfriends or wives mare talk the into it. I doubt they can patent this idea so I don't know if it's them or another firm. I once thought of trying it but if I buy online at least I buy what I like from firms I know which size select as sometimes it may slightly change from brand to brand like in some an S being more an XS, So I saw myself with probably poor quality cheap clothes sold by the price of a good brand, some not fitting, some just not looking good on me and me probably liking only one item or none but feeling forced to keep them because the whole return thing a waste of time. If they offered quality brands I actually knew about with some discount I could have considered. I just can't see what benefit is there for me.
@@LifeInPink999 they can’t Patent this idea cause there already were dozends of companies already doing this before they even started. This idea is even older than the internet, done before this by mail with questionnaires.
It's the only reason they got an investment. Nothing novel, nothing unique, currently loses money and back-end developed by someone else. All these girls brought was a rolodex and they got paid a ton for it.
Actually I think he does this regularly but rarely owns it and straight up admits he was wrong which he did here. Usually he bullishly sticks to his guns or uses it as a tactic to drive off the other dragons from being interested so he can offer a higher bid without being undercut. To my eyes he honestly thought the return rate was abysmal and couldn't function, then the others argued him into seeing 70% return rate for an online clothing retailer is actually decent, so he ate a bit of humble pie and complimented them. If he had stuck to his guns however he would have been proven right in the end since the company bankrupted owing 1 million in 2018, the deal never went through and the shell of what remained was sold to a rival for 50k. Basically this is a prime example of a dragon being right for the wrong reasons, the other dragons were in fact 100% wrong, the business model didn't work.
So the investment broke down after the den but Enclothed successfully raised £400,000 via a crowdfunding campaign. The firm was then ‘bought' by rival firm The Chapar. Levi Young is now the CEO of The Chaper. EDIT: Levi Young was the CEO of Chaper until May 2019
They have nothing unique, are currently losing money, and it looks like their back-end was done by someone in a developing country. Yet they managed to get an investment from Peter, on something he knows nothing about because their parents are acquaintances of Sarah Willingham. It's not what you know but rather, who you know. The Dragons invested in these girls only because they want to be introduced to their families.
Margins are not trade secrets, my god. It's boggling how often the pitches don't want to give up basic, vital information. It's a little like a court room: authenticity really is everything. Beyond that, paying for double the delivery fees to pick up un-purchased product would be a major hole in the canoe... someone is picking up the extra costs.
Need to make an edit. Should be "most *TITLES ON THIS CHANNEL* involve..." because they're always clickbait ones like that. (Example) Title: Peter ANGRILY Confronts Business Owner Over Company Valuation! Reality: Peter calmly claims that their valuation is unrealistic at one point in the 10-15 mins.
@@pauljulian2963 Exactly at least his daughter doesn't Bite the Hand That Feeds otherwise Everything Must Change. Some People don't understand Why Does A Man Have to Be So Strong and if she hadn't received investment and asked her father for money he'd probably say to himself "I'm Only Foolin' Myself!"
Crazy how many " entrepreneurs" that come onto the Shark Tank and Dragons Den type shows are directly related to otherwise already established and wealthy people. Kinda corelates the general discussion going on about how wealth and connections creates wealth and connections for those who already have wealth and connections, and not actual real world everyday folk.
There is a rule that if a Dragon personally knows you that they are not allowed to invest. But, maybe that rule was added in a later season. Kelly knows her parents, so maybe that rule wouldn't apply anyway, but perhaps she was worried still?
Everytime Evan walks towards the camera I hear Jonathan Frakes in my head. _Our next pitch takes us to a place where lies and exaggerations collide..._
As a man I love this. I absolutely dread going shopping because after walking around shops wasting half of my morning, when I find something I like, they don't have the color or the size I like/need... I want to burn the shop down when that happens. I clearly stress too much an overreact over little things. I am working on it, but online shopping is a safer option for me and others.
“6 months to sell that stock” - Peter is right...the square root of 30% ‘kept rate’ is 5.48 which essentially means 5 and a half months. Whilst in the retail world, returns are inevitable, “recirculating” stock is arguably recycling stock. Unhealthy for inventory and thus cash flow.
Yes, Peter is rarely too far off the mark. The huge difference between a retail outlet and this business is that the retail outlet can put the clothes back on the raíl and has thousands of customers coming in actively shopping and presumably a strong brand that doesnt need building. It also doesnt need to pay extra shipping until suffient items have been sold whereby it can make another large shipment to the outlet. This business model is incredibly fragile and I question that their algorithyms can get anywhere close to someone looking for themselves around shops.
@@RockyDave @JoshxIZ I think Sara never invested because she was only interested in restaurant/food investments and products that were fully ready for market but needed a door to be opened with retail chains. Knowing she couldn't really compete with the others when it came to opening those doors, and that most people overlooked her she had to differentiate herself by being really nice and polite while repeating what everyone else had said but in a slightly different way to make it seem like she was contributing. Almost like this comment just takes your salient points and repeats a combined version of them in an expanded version to make it appear like I was intelligent and helpful and polite and therefore a valuable member of this discussion when in reality I just yeeted your words into a melting pot.
@Leonidas Poledouris They did it presumably to slow down the video and increase its length so that the video would get over 10/12 minutes and they could monetize it.
70% returns means after a while 70% of the stuff they sell has been tested by someone else. In fact, many items will be shipped, tried and returned by multiple customers before someone keeps it.
that's a bad idea letting them keep the cloths then charging the card when they return the others, had this issue at a hotel business where the card declines and u cant do anything about it. so basically they could have 300 quids worth of cloths for free
Peter Jones not understanding new business models is always hilarious. This is now a norm for clothing companies, popularized in the US by Trunk club which is now a subsidiary of Nordstroms. And they are absolutely fine with their return rate.
Peter must have been having a bad hangover day.....if a customer keeps 30% then they must return 70% it's pretty simple. PJ is usually a lot sharper then that.
correct me if I am wrong, I think he was concerned with the stock thats not being sold ; the 70%, but their business model has the 70% in constant rotation. So its not like its just sitting around. I think he missed the point that their business model is basically getting constant feedback , and will make amendments based on the software. Its basically LTE shopping. I have to say , as a man, I hate shopping, this business model is for me
From what I can tell, they no longer exist. Their website is no longer active (enclothed.co.uk) and their Companies House profile shows it as Dissolved in 2019.
@@jameshughes1592 Stitchfix operate a keep what you want return what you don’t model and seem to be doing quite well. They operate in the US and UK and seem to have cornered the market. I’m guessing this lot just got out trounced by a larger competitor with a very aggressive marketing strategy.
@@jameshughes1592 yup, worked for those guys as an agency worker in a cramped East London warehouse lol...their model consisted of selling charity clothing to the end users online. Probably the same flawed business model as of these two girls
Now now that’s not true, when I worked there, the same old lady would come in once a month to get her pictures printed. I don’t think she ever paid more than £5 because she would con the staff into getting free prints.
@@TechGamesAU Yeah that's a valid point. But still, I'm surprised the pitchers don't mention it when saying why they don't want to reveal their margins (or maybe they do but it's edited out)
@@ajinkyababar6072 For the partner brands, it depends on if those margins are normal in the industry, or if they're taking the piss. Customers though won't know and won't care, so it may well damage their brand when customers find out how much their purchases are being marked up.
It's not an issue though. 30% is a lot. If I go shopping I try on 10 items and buy 1 or 2. And my female friends try on about 20 items and buy 2 or 3. That's a return rate of 80% and 90%. Of course regular shops don't have to deal with shipping, but that's what the lower return rate compensates for.
@@jsmit9484 It is certainly an issue.. It means that every order will have a very substantial second piece of shipping, also you cannot recirculate items indefinitely... and make them look like new.
"Theyve had a love-hate relationship with Peter Jones so far,..." - No they didnt. He had a concern, he got a satisfactory answer. That was it. No love or hate involved. The narrator is reaching hard here.
Let's be real though, their customers are not men who don't like shopping because this is more hassle than walking into a store being greeted by a nice lady complimenting you. The customer here are men who really like shopping, and housewives who like dressing up their husbands.
"Peters not very good for business, he doesn't know much about business, he's just learning"
Gotta love Duncan 😂
Toothbrush
Greatest burn ever!!!
Duncan always beats peter down in a good way
And then he'll go like I'm oat
Not dragons den without Duncan, so true 👍😊
I actually like the lack of dramatic sounds in this, silence is nice
Haha
I don’t
It needs to be done every once in a while
Shark Tank is too bombastic, DD UK/Canada is where it's at
@@defundhollywood3259 na on canada they have no clue what they're talking about but the worst thing is that they try and pretend that they do. UK is the best by far
I loved how the camera zoomed in on Peter’s socks when they talked about men’s fashion 😂
Yes but I don’t understand it. Peter tucked his pants into those socks. Is that actually cool? Looks nerdy AF to me. I have a funny feeling Peter is in the striped socks business.
@@toniroberts8117 It's 2021. Nerdy is cool.
@@toniroberts8117 Actually he didn't tuck his pants into the socks: the pants legs are a bit "short" because they are supposed to be straghtned when you are standing up and have no wrinkles on them, but I understand why you thought that because some people do actually tuck them in, but def not his style there
@@ryogokusama lol. I must have seen it wrong. My eyes aren’t that great and I watch this from my tiny iPhone lol. Thank god he doesn’t tuck his pants in his socks lol. That bothered me 😜
The camera men deserve a raise 😂
The dynamic between Peter and Duncan makes these older seasons incredible lmao.
So funny that Peter was the clueless one and all the dragons were stepping in to explain the business to him 😂
Best part was gim trying to play it off later like he was just goofing about lol
I've watched a lot of these and this is the most strange one I've seen.
1. Peter Jones getting figures wrong and not understanding the business model.
2. A 30 second awkward silence which was put in the video
3. Kelly recognised one of the girls.
Strange
well you know some times its who you know not what you know clearly the girls had ties with some rich families and got preferential treatment
@@Jammy._. Dragons' Den is a soap opera, made for people who think they are above watching a soap opera. I know this because I was one of them for years. Now I just watch it as light entertainment and, it is very slick. Very well made.
@@Jammy._. Yes, and Levi is Paul Young's daughter!
@@Jammy._. you win
@@S1290-l9q aaahhh!
Kelly: "Hi, Levi. I know you. We met at your..."
Levi: "Yeah at my... [THINKING OF THE PROFESSIONAL SOUNDING DESCRIPTOR TO USE - 'Base of Operations'... 'Corporate Headquarters'...]"
Kelly: "...at your Mum and Dad's."
Levi: "Yeah."
She is the singer Paul Youngs daughter.
I thought Paul Young was a chocolate maker
Isn't it a rule to not being able to make offers for people that you personally know?
@@gabledelaney2191 I thought Paul Young was a bloke that worked at the pub
That was dodgy
Their shipping expenses must be insane. Yet no one ever mentioned this.
And they mentioned they would 'collect' the box. Made we wonder if they aimed at London circles and niches /personal contacts in their own social class where they felt sure of success. Which is sensible marketing initially but limited and word of mouth has to sustain success to a degree.
And the returns rate.
Shipping is actually quite cheap for companies like theirs (and mine!) that operate in volume. Many of the big operators now also offer free returns to companies that do a minimum volume. It's why most sellers now offer free shipping, and for those - usually high end - that still charge for shipping this charge can provide a notable profit. Sadly it's also why your average delivery guy these days is always rushing and must work to very high delivery targets.
I think normally a clothing store where a customer is able to go in and try clothes would have much higher costs of rental, which would be much higher than costs of shipping.
Peter couldn’t wrap his head around the fact that there is more than one customer at a time and that they can send returned items to someone else 😂
Yeah, he had it in his mind that they were being returned (i.e. purchased, then disliked and brought back for a refund) when in actual fact they're just sending the customer a selection of clothes - more than most people actually want, to give them plenty of choice - and they choose what they want out of the selection.
He's used to bespoke one off items just for him. Hes a multi millionaire. I don't think they like the idea of wearing something someones tried on.
@@dantilley Tbh I also had the same impression
I love how each time someone challenges the dragon's offer, they come back with 'there's a lot of work to be done' when in reality, that's quite debatable hahahaha
The dragons will do nothing lol
A couple of visits to the office and a few phone calls and if the business flounders, they'll never give the company a second thought lol
LOL and let's see for 15% if they do 15% of the work.. It will be more like 1 percent if that!
Nobody:
Cameraman: I'm going to just zoom in on peters socks
Sock Cam.
🤣😂
Yeah, BAM ! ..Peter, "Socks" it to 'em ..
they were talking about style and the editor decided it's a great time to zoom in on peter's striped socks
Yeah I like that camera man. Those socks were fire.
"70% back? Wouldn't it be better to find out what the customer wanted first??"
😆
funny but Peter is right.
@@RonnieVaiArovo Indeed
I don't think this is surprising for an online business. They're obviously trying to go go for the upmarket range and have the tools to help the customers select. This isn't like an online Primark!
It's like Zappos for clothes.
@@RonnieVaiArovo they went bust in 2018
Piers and Kelly were clearly the best offer here, couldn't have thought of another pairing that'd be more perfect for this company.
Deal never completed. However, they did crowdfund £400k. Company went into administration in 2018 owing almost £1M (although around half of that was to its two directors). Administrators sold the company to rivals The Chapar for £50k.
50k! Whoa bloody hell.
Who also went into Administration in 2019
@@ninjalokust Yes. That's ABSOLUTELY true. Most men are almost autistic in their tastes and love for doing and wearing the same thing over and over again.
@@ninjalokust 🎯
@@ninjalokust for me what stood out was the budget part. I could choose budget simply depending how I'm feeling about other things going on in my life. So I choose a low budget because perhaps I am suffering donor fatigue at that moment (or whatever reason for that matter), so the algorithm doesn't capture that I could perhaps spend more so they perhaps send less options or lower priced lower quality options, but days later when the package comes, I'm feeling better and willing to spend - or vice versa. Yeah. 'tis a gimmick who's novelty soon wears off
Might be the first time I’ve seen Kelly actually make an offer
Kelly is just the pre-Jenny Jenny
Help an old pal's daughter out, typical. Won't take a chance on other people who've worked harder
@@wordyword.298 yes that's what I thought too
@@wordyword.298 I think it's if they have pitched their business to them before, they have to go out.
Or smile
Oh god... Another personalised clothing brand for men...
"...is a Premium..."
Me: I'm out.
"...60%..."
Me: Yeah, now I'm REALLY out.
lol next up: organic dog treats
That's not what it is.
Yes, excellent.
That whole situation with Peter jones not understanding it was great
He may have been off slightly on the maths (70% return would be 4 months - not 6 months) but the logic was sound - they'd be holding stock longer on average than a retailer would.
They went into forced liquidation less than 2 years after getting this invesment with £600K owed to creditors so..
@@shanecorry Yeah, Peter was under the assumption that the 70% returns were all refunds, where it's the other way round, where 30% of the items were purchased and the other 70% were simply returned to stock, just like taking clothes to a changing room and taking 70% back to the rails in the shop.
He was under the thought that the customer was returning 70% of the clothes they paid for, which is obviously a lot!
The massive return rate was their eventual cause of bankruptcy, so it seems to me like Peter's hunch was spot on, as usual...
@@kimskis read the reply by Sir Hingle McCringleberry. Peter thought of the returns as refunds when in fact the point of the product was that it’s like a changing room where you put back most of things you try.
@@longestcategg7097
either way you look at it, no wonder this gimmick actually failed - your customer still only buys 30% of your clothing you send to him an average. That's not a successful business rate in my book, having had some experience with fashion retail in the past
HOW ON EARTH could she make an offer if she knew the entrepreneur beforehand?
Isn't that one of the RULES OF THE DEN they keep pointing out???
Normally yeah but if they see it as a money making idea who cares about rules.
@@hamza361 umm.. .The show itself? These are not Rules that the Dragons just make up for themselves... These will be ByLaws that are part of an organization, and will involve so many moving parts.
Pretty sure it's just COI so if there is no direct conflict of interest - they can do it. It's because of stock manipulation, insider trading or not wanting to annoy their invested company. The one's I have seen where they go out it's because they are invested into the sector with a direct competitor. I think you are right though there was one where they went to Uni together and they weren't allowed to invest.
Believe it or not, this WAS a conflict of interest.
They're not supposed to know about the *investment* beforehand. AFAIK, there's no rule against them knowing the entrepreneurs
This is one of the most quiet and calm pitch and negotiation I have seen on dragon's den
Imagine coming on to a television show about trying to get people to invest in you, and thinking that you won’t have to talk about profit margins. Happens so often, people are idiots.
So we're overlooking the fact that at 12:34 Levi said her dad (Paul Young) was screwing Kelly Hoppen are we? 🤔
Truly amazing find, best ever moment of Dragon Den 🎉🤯😅💯
She said "my dad will scream at us" 🤣
Peter was right about working capital management. After airing on Dragons Den, demand went crazy. The company took on a load of debt to scale the operation, acquiring a warehouse and staff in the process. As all their cash went into stock, sales cooled off. One of the charge holders called the debt in and the company was forced into administration.
Damn that's sad!
The face that Piers makes at 10:30 is priceless, GIF material right there
When another hopeful came in with this exact same idea they ALL kiboshed the 70% return "problem" and said it was not an investable venture.
I personally tried one of these such businesses and not a single thing they came up with was anything I'd wear.
When I saw the heading, I thought I had already watched that video.
I'm not sure that other online retailers (where you pick what you want) don't have a huge number of returns. I think you might have to price it in for online clothes businesses
Absolutely love how dragons support the rich family kids. Those are the ones that need it the most! No one asked how much they invested and where the money came from and how much they have in the bank. They knew their parents are rich and wouldn't let their children go bankrupt... class act
Lol
I mean the company went into Administration in 2018 and the deal with the Dragons was never finalised
Just so you know: the actual meetings go on for far longer. This is just a cut version.
Both of them are rich kids, not sure why they needed the den. One of them has two celeb parents and the other one's dad is literally CEO of a successful shipping company...
The Dragons didn't examine the most important part of the business.....shipping the returned 70% back and forth.
If this process is not cheap and efficient, you're fucked lol
To be honest, it sounds like a logistical nightmare. Imagine having to repackage all the clothes when they come back to the warehouse. Sounds like a right pain in the arse
Money is saved as luxury brands have crazy margin
I assume that would be included to reach their 60% margins, which are pretty healthy.
"Peter doesn't know much about business, he's just learning" 🤣🤣🤣
It looks like Enclothed got sold in 2018 to a rival called The Chapar (a crowd funded organisation). The Chapar itself went into administration in 2019, then later getting taken over by new owners. However, the Chapar website just has a coming soon label still now...
Thankyou for posting the info for us, cheers 😊
The same concept was pitched years ago by a Swedish woman in this show too
was thinking the same
Me too only if I remember right, she didn’t get investment
Yes I was thinking this! An offer being made must just depend on how the dragons are feeling that day sometimes.
silver spoons eh?
They likely have good connections which made the dragons feel at ease
Their entrance and pitch reminded me of the Godfather movies. Direct, serious, and well put. Almost no smiles or greetings.
They were made an offer they couldn't refuse.
What job role do you have at this business sir?
@@1finnese1 I don't get it mate, what?
@@alanw4589 Absolutely, shame it didn't work out for them inb4.
Peter couldn't bring himself to say that he got it wrong, Instead "I gave you a hard time" Trying to maintain that ego must be exhausting! I still like ol' Pizza though.
Yeah that was great lmao what a cope 🤣
This is one of my favorite DD deals. I was a little skeptical at first, but their cool demeanor and ability to clarify and get their pitch across eloquently quite impressed me.
“I want to apologize, for being a little bit controversial earlier,” not “I want to apologize for wrongly accusing your business of poor performance.” He was very kind to the astute entrepreneurs and of course, himself lmfao.
Since I moved to Germany 🇩🇪 still watching dragons because this is better than any movie this is a big thriller wish all the best uk 🇬🇧 👊
👊 No clue what you are saying btw lol
Peter's face when they don't want to disclose the margin
Well there website is down and they haven't posted anything on their social media channels for over 2yrs now. Guess the business is Dead!
I saw the same business model but for women's clothing and they should have started with woman clothing as they are more probabilities for a woman to be interested in this. Just like beauty boxes normally start with woman brands and then if have success launch beauty product for men with the idea that the already subscribed girlfriends or wives mare talk the into it.
I doubt they can patent this idea so I don't know if it's them or another firm. I once thought of trying it but if I buy online at least I buy what I like from firms I know which size select as sometimes it may slightly change from brand to brand like in some an S being more an XS, So I saw myself with probably poor quality cheap clothes sold by the price of a good brand, some not fitting, some just not looking good on me and me probably liking only one item or none but feeling forced to keep them because the whole return thing a waste of time.
If they offered quality brands I actually knew about with some discount I could have considered. I just can't see what benefit is there for me.
They sold to Chapar, and Chapar is now finished
God damn it!
@@LifeInPink999 they can’t Patent this idea cause there already were dozends of companies already doing this before they even started.
This idea is even older than the internet, done before this by mail with questionnaires.
@@carolcurtis1573 huge win if they sold and made money, that's often the endgame for a lot of businesses
Oh, one of the Dragons knows your parents? **Dragons proceed to be sickeningly nice to them** I need to be sick
Still, I'd be happy if Robert Plant said to me "hey, I know your parents".
It's the only reason they got an investment.
Nothing novel, nothing unique, currently loses money and back-end developed by someone else.
All these girls brought was a rolodex and they got paid a ton for it.
Pretty sure the taller ones dad was a 80s pop icon
JENNY: "I'll tell you where I am. I'm at home eating carpet samples."
Very rarely does Peter make himself look a tit but kudos to him for that effort
Actually I think he does this regularly but rarely owns it and straight up admits he was wrong which he did here. Usually he bullishly sticks to his guns or uses it as a tactic to drive off the other dragons from being interested so he can offer a higher bid without being undercut.
To my eyes he honestly thought the return rate was abysmal and couldn't function, then the others argued him into seeing 70% return rate for an online clothing retailer is actually decent, so he ate a bit of humble pie and complimented them.
If he had stuck to his guns however he would have been proven right in the end since the company bankrupted owing 1 million in 2018, the deal never went through and the shell of what remained was sold to a rival for 50k.
Basically this is a prime example of a dragon being right for the wrong reasons, the other dragons were in fact 100% wrong, the business model didn't work.
How very Brit of you to say so. 😂
So the investment broke down after the den but Enclothed successfully raised £400,000 via a crowdfunding campaign. The firm was then ‘bought' by rival firm The Chapar.
Levi Young is now the CEO of The Chaper.
EDIT: Levi Young was the CEO of Chaper until May 2019
Isn't she working at Founders Factory..?
edit: Edward Janes the CEO of The Chapar according to Google/Linkedin
@@chibifoods yeah my bad. She was the CEO of Chaper until May 2019
"Care about what they are wearing"
Zooms in on socks
Tbh i love those socks
“A once hostile Peter Jones” what? Peter? Hostile?? 😂😂
Peter looked at Kelly.. hang on she never invests so if she's interested there must be something here I better make a U turn
They have nothing unique, are currently losing money, and it looks like their back-end was done by someone in a developing country.
Yet they managed to get an investment from Peter, on something he knows nothing about because their parents are acquaintances of Sarah Willingham.
It's not what you know but rather, who you know. The Dragons invested in these girls only because they want to be introduced to their families.
Now that's just perfect pre-lunch timing
staying up till 5 am pays off again
You mean 12.30pm
I am glad these women have an online product. Their voices and attitude would put me off personal interaction.
🤣
They're not particularly engaging, particularly the tall one.
Oooh Touchy!
Savage
I'm really enjoying the reduced sound effects and narration in this episode. They should keep using this format going forward.
Has this video been rendered out at a slower than normal speed? The voices all sound weird, especially noticeable with Evan Davies...
Peter sounds like he has Invisalign in.
You might be right. It's a bit odd.
I'm watching it at 1.2 speed and it still seems laggy...
@@mixmastermaverick3336 what's that?
@@honor9lite1337 easier if you google Invisalign.
I thought you weren’t allowed to invest If you knew of the presenters?
Ahhh yess, Another one of those episodes where the Den is filled with Sulfur hexafluoride. All their voices are a few pitches deeper.
In this video, I think I saw Kelly actually smile for once.
Margins are not trade secrets, my god. It's boggling how often the pitches don't want to give up basic, vital information. It's a little like a court room: authenticity really is everything. Beyond that, paying for double the delivery fees to pick up un-purchased product would be a major hole in the canoe... someone is picking up the extra costs.
Need dates on when this aired
2015
Lets face it, most episodes of this programme involve the dragons being: shocked/disgusted/flabbergasted/disappointed/angry. This is nothing new.
Need to make an edit. Should be "most *TITLES ON THIS CHANNEL* involve..." because they're always clickbait ones like that.
(Example) Title: Peter ANGRILY Confronts Business Owner Over Company Valuation!
Reality: Peter calmly claims that their valuation is unrealistic at one point in the 10-15 mins.
It's obviously clickbait..
Personally I hope I see more flabbers being gasted because it's a great word
Peter pulled an enormous U-turn!
'I know you....' OK, youre in my rich circle of friends and now we know that so you will definitely get an offer...
Her father is paul young a famous 80s singer.
@@ZoZo-kw6sf exactly
If anyone's interested, Levi is Paul Young's (the singer) daughter.
I'm interested! That explains how they could afford to develop the platform.
Bet he was happy they got investment, he doesn't have to put his hand in his pocket now!
@@pauljulian2963 Exactly at least his daughter doesn't Bite the Hand That Feeds otherwise Everything Must Change. Some People don't understand Why Does A Man Have to Be So Strong and if she hadn't received investment and asked her father for money he'd probably say to himself "I'm Only Foolin' Myself!"
@@johntgw At least he didn't have to Tear Her Playhouse Down!
No, not at all.
Kelly : I know your parents I'm In! :P
satisfying somehow seeing peter have a brain fart :P
9:17 onwards that whole silence was extremely awkward 🤣
Crazy how many " entrepreneurs" that come onto the Shark Tank and Dragons Den type shows are directly related to otherwise already established and wealthy people. Kinda corelates the general discussion going on about how wealth and connections creates wealth and connections for those who already have wealth and connections, and not actual real world everyday folk.
Anyone else on lunch break right now? 😀
Having a ham and cheese sandwich right now :)
@@VoyevodaEU tesco meal deal?
@@VoyevodaEU Sounds lovely!
Eggs & Bagels ready for this episode
I'm still in bed 😂
What was with the tension of the taller Levi girl after Kelly said she knows her? Levi seemed very uncomfortable/awkward.
2.55 moment
There is a rule that if a Dragon personally knows you that they are not allowed to invest. But, maybe that rule was added in a later season. Kelly knows her parents, so maybe that rule wouldn't apply anyway, but perhaps she was worried still?
I read somewhere that she is Paul Young's (the singer) daughter. Perhaps she didn't want the lot to know..
Everytime Evan walks towards the camera I hear Jonathan Frakes in my head.
_Our next pitch takes us to a place where lies and exaggerations collide..._
This must be the 3rd time on dragons den someone has gone on there with the same idea..of sending men’s clothes tailored to them. It’s not new
Is it just me or is this video slower than Jenny when there’s an investment opportunity?
Light travels slow in comparison with Jenny saying "I'm out".
*phone rings*
Jenny: Hallo?
Producer: Hi Jenny! The Dragon’s Den rec...
Jenny: I’m out!
phone rings
Jenny: Hallo?
Producer: Hi Jenny! The Dragon’s Den rec...
Jenny: I’m out at the moment please leave a message after the tone.
FTFY
As a man I love this. I absolutely dread going shopping because after walking around shops wasting half of my morning, when I find something I like, they don't have the color or the size I like/need... I want to burn the shop down when that happens. I clearly stress too much an overreact over little things. I am working on it, but online shopping is a safer option for me and others.
“6 months to sell that stock” - Peter is right...the square root of 30% ‘kept rate’ is 5.48 which essentially means 5 and a half months. Whilst in the retail world, returns are inevitable, “recirculating” stock is arguably recycling stock. Unhealthy for inventory and thus cash flow.
Yes, Peter is rarely too far off the mark. The huge difference between a retail outlet and this business is that the retail outlet can put the clothes back on the raíl and has thousands of customers coming in actively shopping and presumably a strong brand that doesnt need building.
It also doesnt need to pay extra shipping until suffient items have been sold whereby it can make another large shipment to the outlet.
This business model is incredibly fragile and I question that their algorithyms can get anywhere close to someone looking for themselves around shops.
Let’s be real here for a moment: if Jenny hadn’t come into (pun intended) Dragon’s Den, we’d all be making Kelly jokes.
What about restaurant Sara? She never invests and just repeats what everyone else says.
@@JoshxIZ agreed. And before her it was Simon Woodroffe
@@JoshxIZ You're right. She never invests. But she's always really nice and pleasant with everyone.
@@RockyDave
@JoshxIZ
I think Sara never invested because she was only interested in restaurant/food investments and products that were fully ready for market but needed a door to be opened with retail chains.
Knowing she couldn't really compete with the others when it came to opening those doors, and that most people overlooked her she had to differentiate herself by being really nice and polite while repeating what everyone else had said but in a slightly different way to make it seem like she was contributing.
Almost like this comment just takes your salient points and repeats a combined version of them in an expanded version to make it appear like I was intelligent and helpful and polite and therefore a valuable member of this discussion when in reality I just yeeted your words into a melting pot.
@@JoshxIZ Sarah is a queen and I won't take any disrespect
(plz call me Sarah)
Looks like they've slowed this one down. Evan sounds like he's gone into the deep end.
Might wanna check your playback settings.
Video speed is normal
@Leonidas Poledouris They did it presumably to slow down the video and increase its length so that the video would get over 10/12 minutes and they could monetize it.
@@adblock4life166 most definitely slowed down slightly..even listen to the music at the start
70% returns means after a while 70% of the stuff they sell has been tested by someone else. In fact, many items will be shipped, tried and returned by multiple customers before someone keeps it.
Isn't that how it is in Normal clothes stores too?
@@GAMINGBAUS8703 i guess thats true, although i would feel more comfortable with someone else trying it in the store than at home
@@GAMINGBAUS8703 But in a store they don't wear it for a whole day or a party before returning it.
I heard that Zalando have problems with that. People ordering like 50 dresses and wear one each day, before returning all of them.
@@GothamClive This is what so many women do... especially the starting vloggers and 'influencers'
that's a bad idea letting them keep the cloths then charging the card when they return the others, had this issue at a hotel business where the card declines and u cant do anything about it. so basically they could have 300 quids worth of cloths for free
After @1:14 Peter figured he would probably be a customer therefore prompting his decision to make a deal😂😂😂😂
Peter Jones not understanding new business models is always hilarious. This is now a norm for clothing companies, popularized in the US by Trunk club which is now a subsidiary of Nordstroms. And they are absolutely fine with their return rate.
It's really inspiring to see someone create something, work hard and then get an investment from their dad's rich friend.
Well they ended up having 500k in debt, then selling for 50k. So it tanked if that means anything to ya
@@madamefeast4824 nah. I'd still rather she succeeded. 🤷🏻♂️
@@madamefeast4824 OPM I hear Touker say🤔
Kelly can't make an offer as she knows the girl which is against the rules.
Peter must have been having a bad hangover day.....if a customer keeps 30% then they must return 70% it's pretty simple. PJ is usually a lot sharper then that.
correct me if I am wrong, I think he was concerned with the stock thats not being sold ; the 70%, but their business model has the 70% in constant rotation. So its not like its just sitting around. I think he missed the point that their business model is basically getting constant feedback , and will make amendments based on the software. Its basically LTE shopping. I have to say , as a man, I hate shopping, this business model is for me
Matt 🤦🏻♂️
Sharper and then that? You mean sharper THAN that, surely?
Pieter calling himself "controversial" instead of admitting he was wrong and misunderstood the business model. 😂😂
From what I can tell, they no longer exist. Their website is no longer active (enclothed.co.uk) and their Companies House profile shows it as Dissolved in 2019.
Shame would have made a fortune during the lockdown
Peters face when they said they cant disclose the margins😭😭🤣🤣🤣
So funny watching these years later and seeing HUGE businesses doing these very things.
This company was bought by another company but that company went into liquidation in 2019, clearly not a great investment lol
I've seen and used a very similar concept though, can't remember the site unfortunately, does anybody know if they sold the tech?
Found it. "Thread". Similar but not a 'keep what you want, send the rest back' system, so guessing they didn't!
@@jameshughes1592 Stitchfix operate a keep what you want return what you don’t model and seem to be doing quite well. They operate in the US and UK and seem to have cornered the market. I’m guessing this lot just got out trounced by a larger competitor with a very aggressive marketing strategy.
The deal never went through. The ladies crowdfunded instead
@@jameshughes1592
yup, worked for those guys as an agency worker in a cramped East London warehouse lol...their model consisted of selling charity clothing to the end users online. Probably the same flawed business model as of these two girls
Pair of chancers and they walked away with thousands and conned everybody involved 😂
Yes but Peter, at least they are getting 30% kept rate, Jessops is getting less than 0.1% sales with no repeat business. Sad Really !!
Now now that’s not true, when I worked there, the same old lady would come in once a month to get her pictures printed. I don’t think she ever paid more than £5 because she would con the staff into getting free prints.
Why on earth would you not disclose the margins with investors..
Probably because it's not only the investors you're telling but millions of TV viewers (and potential customers) too
@@dantilley but surely they understand and accept that by going on the show...
@@TechGamesAU Yeah that's a valid point. But still, I'm surprised the pitchers don't mention it when saying why they don't want to reveal their margins (or maybe they do but it's edited out)
Because after hearing 60%, customers will ask for more discounts and their partner brands would command higher commissions
@@ajinkyababar6072 For the partner brands, it depends on if those margins are normal in the industry, or if they're taking the piss. Customers though won't know and won't care, so it may well damage their brand when customers find out how much their purchases are being marked up.
I agree with Peter on the 70%/30% issue. The others were overlooking a very important point.
It's not an issue though. 30% is a lot. If I go shopping I try on 10 items and buy 1 or 2. And my female friends try on about 20 items and buy 2 or 3. That's a return rate of 80% and 90%. Of course regular shops don't have to deal with shipping, but that's what the lower return rate compensates for.
@@jsmit9484 It is certainly an issue.. It means that every order will have a very substantial second piece of shipping, also you cannot recirculate items indefinitely... and make them look like new.
You know its lunchtime when a new dragons den video has been released 🐉
"Theyve had a love-hate relationship with Peter Jones so far,..." - No they didnt. He had a concern, he got a satisfactory answer. That was it. No love or hate involved. The narrator is reaching hard here.
Turned out the narrator had a big crack addiction at the time that impaired his performance.
Idk when this episode was filmed but there are a ton of products like this out there.
1:18 Peter can't relate to any of this. He employs his own personal tailor and owns three sock factories 🙄
Let's be real though, their customers are not men who don't like shopping because this is more hassle than walking into a store being greeted by a nice lady complimenting you.
The customer here are men who really like shopping, and housewives who like dressing up their husbands.
If on average 30% was retained, maybe they should have imposed a deposit you pay for delivery of the box? Maybe 10% of the boxes value.
I hate shopping, clothes are the worst, I look at what it costs and how good it is and always feel like it’s not worth the cost and walk away
I think I’d pick Deborah every time…I love her.
The taller girl is the brains and the passion for sure 👏🏽🙌🏽
Evan got blazed before shooting this
That is the first time I have seen Kelly Hoppen even offer an investment.
They were sold to company called The Chapar