An In-Depth Critique of Horizon Forbidden West
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 лис 2023
- In this video I discuss (almost) all my thoughts about Horizon Forbidden West
Patreon: / adamsrayi
Music Used:
Promise of the West - Horizon Forbidden West ost
Alone Before the World - Horizon Forbidden West ost
Edge of the Sundom - Horizon Forbidden West ost
Echo of You - Horizon Forbidden West ost
The Chorus - Horizon Forbidden West ost
Footage Credit:
• Horizon Forbidden West...
• Horizon Forbidden West...
• Horizon Forbidden West...
#horizonforbiddenwest #ps5 - Ігри
If you want EVEN MORE of my thoughts you can find them on patreon where any tier unlocks a written post mortem a few days after a video upload. www.patreon.com/AdamSrayi
AAA gaming is hard, the more realistic the environments get the more believable the player expects the game to be, so we are looking at the cubed law rule to make these games, you'd need massive staff to deliver within a reasonable time frame. And that would be ok but are you willing to spend $1000 on one game? Games are creative artforms that a cubed law would proportionally take away from. The AAA critique is what is killing it. AAA needs to be simplified to be better, it may have to go more indie in style.
I pretty much agree with you on everything except the combat!
You are not supposed to play aggressively! You are supposed to play tactically, systematically disabling enemies!
Also, apparently, the devs originally intended for you to have a shield but removed it since it would "overcomplicate controls".
the reason why Zero Dawn had a big city (Meridian) while the Forbidden West had small cities, is that the carja are more advanced and civilised than the tenakth whom are more like tribal and almost nomadic, and were always at war with each other until recently when Hekarro united them.
I was so exited when Aloy got a shield, only to realise it later you can't use it as a shield
what do you need a shield for in this game? that would ruin the gameplay. She rolls. and quite effectively. her "shield" is the environment.
@@mickael486 it would mainly be for fighting other humans. Rolling around is very awkward and a shield would be much more fun and effective to fight them.
But yes, against the machines the shield wouldn't make sense. And the combat against machines is great as it is
@@allandm so the shield would basically only work for arrows... that's fair. but definitely not a deal breaker if there isn't one. Fighting humans (in camps) is still pretty great and requires some smart stealth mechanics that I'd be afraid would not be necessary if the game had a shield.
@@mickael486 fair enough, it comes down to preference at the end of the day. I don't really enjoy human fights in horizon, and if they gave her a parry/ a lock on and block it would feel better to me personally. Something like Kena bridge of spirits (the buttons are surprisingly similar to horizon)
@@allandm try stealth more. experiment with weaves on the right gear and you're almost invisible.
I uninstalled this because I couldn't shut her up. I tried going back to it half a dozen times because it was beautiful and I felt it deserved a chance after liking the first one. Then I saw a tower and I wanted the lens, before I even started climbing she said something like "I should go up there" and I was done. She told me answers to problems that I hadn't even realised was a problem yet because I just walked into the area but for some reason "go up there" was the last straw. Couldn't even explore in peace. A true waste of a beautiful world.
I hope the developers watch this.
@@nehemiahpouncey3607my guy...you are not very smart.
They have confirmed horizon 3. Not just that, but it's an incredibly small minority mad that she's gay. Why does it matter if she's gay, straight or bi? Lol she's a fictional character.
Y'all really get triggered so easily, it's sad
They don’t care they don’t work for us😢
They just take our money because we will buy it anyway even if it’s crap
@@PeachShortcake_ I am a gay woman and didn't even know Aloy would have feelings for a woman in the DLC. It is so rare to see this in games. I fully enjoyed it, and them going on a couple of quests together too. Magic.
Something I wished you talked about during the combat section was the arena challenges. As it is right now, the arena is fine, but the knocked down mechanic is really apparent here. Aloy takes so long to get back up after falling down, and the amount of machines in the arena means there will almost always be one to knock you down straight after. This is all made worse by the fact that, in order to get the top reward, you need to beat them within a certain timeframe, and when half of that time is spent recovering from falls you (most likely) dodged, it feels a little unfair.
The arena also highlights just how much could have been done with the combat, in terms of contextual attacks. The time you spend getting to higher ground could be worth it if you could jump off walls onto enemies or use the glider more reliably.
It’s a really cool concept that - once I’d heard about it - devoted time figuring out how to unlock, but once I did the first challenge and realised exactly how unpolished the combat was in this setting, I never came back to.
This is sad because, just like you, I really enjoyed the game. What you said about how we should criticise the things we enjoy just as much as the things we like is so well put. Your video highlights issues you have in a clear and concise way without entirely shitting on a game that (in my opinion) was totally worth my time. Thanks for making it, you’ve got some real talent!
The arena was definitely another pain point, and could have been so fun
For me, the biggest frustration with the combat by far is the fact all the machines, from the burrower to the tide ripper, are equally nimble. They all move on a dime, it's nearly impossible to circle around the bigger machines, they just sorta slide around in place to prevent you from being able to get behind them to hit weak points. You effectively have to use the same strategy on every machine in order to defeat them. The first game had the same problem, but it's exacerbated in this one. It's pretty ridiculous that a large, limbering, aquatic machine can be so nimble on land in only that specific respect.
That's a great point
I agree with this. I range snipe everything…. when this goes wrong all hell breaks loose and I have a mini nightmare on my hands 😅
Agreed plus alloy takes so much time to get up. Yet a 60 ft machine is like a ballet dancer. The way they target u is like dark souls you dodge and the projectiles will float and target u behind rocks, hit u through walls and then move so fast u cant counter a dodged attack that you should be able to hit.
Its horrible tbh one big part of the game i hate. Ima melee fighter first thats how i play most games unless they offer good magic like a dragons aga game.
I barley use magic in souls because it sucks and isnt fun.
Just wish the machines didnt spend target 360 degress with an attack in order to hit u. So unrealistic.
If you want to hold a machine in place, you can use the adhesive arrows or bombs to gum them up, ropecaster to tie them down, or a smoke bomb to disorientate them. Wholly agree it is pretty tricky to circle strafe, though there are tools to make things easier.
Your comments on the ruins is 100%. I stopped doing them cause i didnt give a fuck about spending 10 mins for a puzzle just to find a fucking ornament that changes vegas lights. Fuck that.
👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻
Great video. Especially the part about the visual clutter and "towns" being hard to navigate because of the lack of distinct things to focus on.
you make several great points and i hope GG takes notes for the next installment.
just a tiny nitpick, 25:00 the game drags you down there specifically to prevent you from entering a story location. i haven't personally experienced that drastic of a drag-down while gliding anywhere else in the game
I would be so curious to see what would happen if a studio like this put this much time and resources into creating a shorter game set in a much, much smaller area that is full developed and polished. I think that could really be something special
Omg 100%, I'd rather have the game be smaller but better.
Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with a number of your points...
Stealth for one - 'You don't have the ability to manipulate enemy patterns'.You have rocks to throw as distractions, a full invisibility skill to infiltrate undetected and disrupt, outfits and mods that are quieter than others for sneaking to draw attention without full detection, and even shooting arrows from a distance can draw attention. You can use your focus to highlight routine patterns to see where they've been broken.
Ability to set traps is limited - ultimately, yes of course it's not UNLIMITED, that would be ridiculous - but if your play style is stealth, there are upgrades, gear, outfits, skills and modifications specifically for trappers... Everything from multiple types of anti-air traps, explosives, different types of trip wires, stagger beams, canister harpoons and floating mines!
As for getting human enemies and machines to fight either other? You have the Beserk arrow type to confuse and enrage any enemy to attack those in the vicinity (including machines) AND the Targeting arrow type to even direct overidden machines (hacked to be on your side either aggressively or passively) toward any enemy you want... Aim it at a human, and you have both fighting each other.
While I agree on some aspects, there are many other oversights and I feel like there's not been enough time and creative experimentation with the systems to make some of these claims.
I started HFW last weekend and it doesn't reach the same level of playability as HZD. My biggest gripe is the new controls - i hate key-combos for attacks. Plus, I often accidentally trigger the dodge mechanic when trying to manouvre around an obstruction, causing me to roll off a cliff or into a mob. I much prefer fewer skills and more reliable controls.
The 4-5 part puzzles in the game, also mentioned in this video, are a chore instead of a rewarding experience. The reward is often in a place I feel you should be able to get to without going through all the steps. Rewards are often visible though holes in the wall, but you cannot crawl through the hole. Even though size indicates it should be easily possible. This make the puzzle feel something that's completely unnecesary but you're forced to work through.
I had hoped they improved on the climbing mechanic for this sequel, allowing the freedom to climb everything anywhere. Unfortunately, it's still a case of hopping from one predetermined spot to another. For me, this is the most immersion breaking part of the game.
The first take about visuals is so based! As a professional 3D artist I couldn't agree more, HFW suffers from the same problems the Transformers series does. Visual fidelity is so high human eye cannot possibly take anything valuable from it, and it gets worse because of the lightning.
I do believe lighting plays a huge role here. Yes, it features better GI, but lacks contrast and darkening in cavities, so it makes overdetailed image even worse - by making all parts of the object evenly lit without telling more about its shape. So, in the end, I prefer HZD image more since it actually features better contrast and makes the image more readable by simply having fewer details - thus more interesting to look at.
Why cannot artists take a step back with the visuals and stop making the same mistakes transformers did?
oh man your videos are so great . give this man more subscribers and views. one of my fav channels
Very good Analyse. The games development surely had a bigger, higher, faster approach and while it had a view highlights like vegas i was ultimately dissappointed. Especially regarding the story which was just aweful and lazy written.
I have soooo much beef with the story, character writing, character development and even dialogue I could cry. Especially given how well the first game was written and how much potential many of the ideas had. I really don't understand what happened with the writing team.
loved your detailed take on this. there are some things I'd add but i do agree pretty much all of the things you mentioned.
earned my sub ;)
This was a really interesting critique! Watched some other videos and no one else could really pinpoint why the creature designs felt off, but your point about the Tallnecks having a combination of machine elements and animal parts put the whole thing together in my head! Great video.
Thank you! Im glad I could put words to your feelings
This was an amazing analysis! Thanks for being brutally honest!😂 This helped me a lot on whether or not I get this game. Too bad more game developers don't do things like the developers of Mario Wonder did and have no actual 'due date' and to just have fun making it. Amazing work on this video!
Game development doesnt work like that im sorry
Once again fantastic commentary Adam!! Can’t get enough of these amazing videos
2:44 for this tribe it’s supposed to be like that, their whole culture is based of a few holograms that glitches, becoming jagged and unruly
I've been screaming about the damn shield since it released. Do what God of War did. The shield was one of my favorite things in that game. Even Spider-Man 2 has a parry now. It's baffling how they didn't implement it in Horizon.
My absolute biggest annoyance is the second you attack one of the machines, the rest of them almost always gang up on you even if you've separated them a good distance apart. Not to mention their barrage of AOE attacks that keep coming at you from a mile away leads to some veeeery annoying battles. This literally happens 99% of the time. Of course I am playing on hardest difficulty so usually just 2 hits and I'm bye bye. Not fun.
Having spent 100’s of hours climbing pointless hills on BOTW and TOTK, I personally find defined climbing routes one of the best features about this game. I can’t get my head around the common opinion that this is in some way a bad thing.
Because there are no climbing routes. You have to rely on the scanner thing or try it out to see if you can climb something. This guessing game kills the flow and immersion. Then you have this ugly yellow markers until you're done.
Either everything is climbable, or nothing should be.
You can't have a rock surface you can climb and then the same rock surface somewhere else is not climbable, at that point put clear markers like in the first game (the white ones).
@@Bob69303 far less time is spent pushing a button than climbing a pointless mountain in hope of a korok seed only to find nothing. Perhaps you haven’t tried to max these out on TOTK? + I fail to see what’s ugly about the lines, but that’s just my opinion and I don’t understand yours.
@@ariesbull the problem with your argument is that climbing is a mean to an end. The fact that in Zelda you might find nothing on top of a mountain, has nothing to do with Horizon, and has nothing to do with the climbing system either.
In Zelda there are clear rules for climbing, in HFW there aren't.
What you're implying is "if there are no climbable surfaces it means there's nothing to find, I don't have to waste time", but this is false. The video itself shows why, but time and time again I found myself in an area during exploration, then wanted to reach another location, and had to take a detour, because the rock surface in front of me wasn't climbable, for arbitrary reasons.
Usually, when this happened I tried to jump my way through, like a mountain goat, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Even then, in a pretty game like Horizon, why can't I just climb to enjoy the view?
The yellow markers are weird because they are in complete contrast with the realistic style of the world, especially considering that the predecessor solved this issue with yellow-ish metal objects and white rock edges.
They could make a neon pink robot, and maybe you'd like it, it doesn't mean it'd fit into the world.
@@Bob69303 I’m sorry, not interested in debate. Because the only ‘problem’ with my opinion is it doesn’t align with yours. I have my opinion and you have yours. This is where it ends.
0:00 - Intro
1:32 - The Visuals
16:30 - The Gameplay
37:27 - The Story
It hurt that you talk bad things about this game. BUT! To be fair it is true and you make a really really good point. Something is missing in this game.
Thank you for the time stamps! They are perfectly placed
W man been looking for this
I too hate this tendency of meticulously curated experiences in big budget games
8:30 These inconsistencies in lighting are actually due to the fact they made a lot of artificial lights. I mean all characters and their faces have some weird backlight from nowhere. I can understand this for static images to make it more visually interesting. But in motion, it rather feels weird, ESPECIALLY outside of the cutscenes. I would rather like to have just the sun as a single light source in a scene. Especially considering their engine got better with GI (Or maybe it's not and this is the reason they just cranked up the ambient light?).
The puzzle ridden Ruins of HFW are superfluous and the only rewarding thing about them is weapon you get for completing all of them
You make dozens upon dozens of valid and eye opening criticisms, but the game still was just awesome af to play, no? The two biggest ones to harp on - aloy getting stunlocked and the combat vs humans. holy shit the fight vs the enduring is like the perfect culmination of all those frustrations. And then there is the arena challenges chasing the best time possible, oh my those were something. especially with the developer provided loadouts.
two more things I wish you mentioned were the game wants you to use all these different weapons and techniques vs machines and to hit specific parts but then it becomes extremely difficult to use said weapons and hit those parts in practice. Giant machines will have 15 spots to shoot and you have so many options but it's next to impossible to even see any of them or get a clear shot cus you have to get too close and risk getting stomped and stunlocked. so each of those fights in the end game turns into use level 3 power and spam your hardest hitting weapon killing all the variation.
the second thing is I remember the minigame races being absolute TORTURE. awful gameplay mechanics. really don't like when these games just shove in stuff from other games to give more things for the player to do. goes for the chess game as well.
but to bring some more positivity back, the end of the 3rd act and flying the machine in the story was instantly one of my favorite things I've ever done in a game. The franchise as a whole can introduce so many things to make it better, but damn I still give this game a 10/10. Really enjoyed my 95 hour 100% playthrough. The positives just heavily outweigh the negatives even though you really could nitpick the game to death.
10:36 feels a bit too nitpicky, they probably made it more silent so that it doesn’t blast your eardrums in contrast to other stuff.
But I do wish that the water ripples, sand/snow deformation was made by machines, just look at the slitherfang, it leaves no traces in the sand
36:27 you can throw rocks, launch bombs, environmental traps, smoke bombs and the berserk arrows
35:12 yeah I usually just jump, hold r1, press r2, land, release r1 and repeat
It feels like the melee combat has a steep curve and really reminds me about platinum games, specially Bayonetta where it takes a LOOOOOONG time to be comfortable with it and even hope to do things right. Also human enemies attacks way too hard
I'm so glad you put into words some of my biggest gripes with the game. I feel like you, I like it, I had fun with it, but so many things frustrated me and didn't sit right. And often I couldn't really say why. I also thought all the details are stunning and impressive, but as a whole I didn't find it visually intriguing. And I also often can't play for more than an hour because all the visual noise is very exhausting for me to look at. So I completely agree with you here. The same goes for the design of the different settlements. Overall Plainsong is very cool to look at from a distance and a great idea, but when I'm in there orientation is hard and and don't know where to look first. I'm visually overwhelmed.
I also very much agree with you on Aloy's agility (or lack thereof). A friend of mine said the same a while back; combat feels more stunted, less fluid than in the fist game. It feels like they wanted to make it more realistic, maybe, but when you sacrifice speed in a game that's focused on action heavy, fast combat it's just frustrating. I'm replaying ZD atm and can't believe how much fun I'm having with the combat. Yeah, there are a few tools from FW that I'd like to have but overall the rhythm of the combat is just really good. Also visually ZD is still stunning but more limited than FW, less noise. It's easier for me to focus on the landscape and enjoy the environment.
I also had the feeling that all the ideas they tried to implement here don't really work together. I like the comparison to a theme park but wouldn't only keep it to the transition of the biomes (that doesn't bother me much) but also look at the different activities in this context. It really feels like there were different teams developing these different ideas pretty much in isolation and when sth was done it was just placed somewhere on the map. What I don't understand is why ZD doesn't feel like this at all to me though both games are very similar. All in all ZD feels much more polished to me and like everything was placed in the world with much more careful planning and intention. They were probably more limited in ZD when it comes to budget and resources thus they had to prioritize certain aspects over others and I think you can see this in certain areas (like human combat or the water etc), but that's absolutely fine bc, imo, they found the right priorities. You can not make everything great. Some things just have to be solid enough. It feels to me like in FW they made the same mistake that many sequels do, especially movie sequels, thinking "more is more". Instead of focusing on a few core ideas in areas of graphic design, gameplay and story they wanted to do all the things. But that makes it impossible to have an eye on everything, to make sure, everything connects well and have proper quality control. And I think it shows in almost every aspect.
Oh sorry, I thought I was done but then I remembered what you said by the end about how the story unfolded and I felt the same disappointment. When I think what they could've done gameplay-wise when it comes to the problems 'caused by the subfunctions. I thought these would impede your progress very strongly and that you had to battle with them in some way to maybe unlock new parts of the map or to get to specific important equipment. I thought solving some of the environmental problems could unlock more side quests. I thought you would have to talk to the subfunctions, maybe even make a deal with them or sth to get them to come with you. There were a million ways to use these ideas to make the story and gameplay and even development of the map super unique and interesting. And you even could've left out the Zenith part completely, save it for the last game. Then you would've also had more room for the business of the tribes of the West. Wow, I really have to stop myself here. Could go on and on but this is your show. You said you had some very subjective opinions on the story. I'd love to hear those. Maybe you'll make another video about that at some point? I would also just read a blog entry or your google docs XDDD
Thanks again for making this. It was a bit cathartic to me.
I'm glad you liked the video. You have some good ideas about what they could have done with the subfunctions. Could have been so much more interesting
Great video, there are some fair and valid points.The visual aspect you mentioned is more noticeable when playing in performance mode with the checkerboarded dynamic res it's using so details can be lost, the quality mode is a lot cleaner in this regard.
But even with all these nitpicking flaws the game might have it still doesn't really bother or hurt my overall experience I have with the game, they are fair and valid points for sure that can surely be improved with the third game. But I still adore this game either way and have it as one of my favorite open world games ever.
A shield is something I do want to see in the third game though, a parry mechanic would be very useful.
Thank you! I have optimism for the third game. Especially since they won't be burdened by cross gen development. It could really be excellent
The outfit previews, in my experience, are directly tied to the time of day, for some inexplicable reason.
The first game was fun, I really like it.
I want to try Forbidden West on PC, now I might wait for sale.
Nice Vid.
I don't play video games, but this looks nice.
If you ever wanted to give them a try, the Horizon series would be a beautiful place to start!
31:35 you can dodge it, to I would say the shockwave isn’t distinct enough to know when to do it
I would like to add my two cents into the discussion - I think the glider drag critique is a bit harsh on your side. Yes, it drags you down in that one perticular spot due to the nature of the building you are gliding above. But try it at some other places and you find that it is a rather long glide that you get. I did do myself. Yes, it could have been better, but it still allows you some fun.
Also the climbing - I cannot imagine holding a weapon while climbing a wall, though it might be possible for spears and gauntlet. Hmm...
whats the most crazy to me about the development of this game is most of your critiques they had already done in the first game! The blending of the different biomes, the strong designs of the towns and Meridian, making use of mounts, really cool, well developed, relatable side characters that are all gay for Aloy which i Loved(and felt like they rushed and ruined in the new dlc), the whole game truly feels like a backslide from the (in my opinion) perfect first game. its like they got so focused on making the bigger, prettier, crazier game and completely lost the plot of what made the first game so iconic on its own. I've got a lot of big feelings about this game 😅 I want to love it but I can't. The best piece from this series is Frozen Wilds.
I wholeheartedly agree with all your points. For me, Frozen Wilds is so far the peak of the series as well and I also couldn't really get into the romance between Seyka and Aloy in Burning Shores though that relationship was intentionally romantic while most interactions in ZD are completely free to interpretation. But I really have the feeling that Aloy has much more chemistry with even the side characters in ZD than even with some of the most important protagonists in FW. Though, the reason for that could also be that she is a mostly awful person in FW who lacking almost all of her patience, compassion, understanding, wonder and playfulness that she had in ZD. But that's just how I feel.
@@Taya27 I find that when I replay the game I really enjoy kotallo and Zo's quests the most, bc it dives into the cultures and explores the nuances between the characters, their tribes, and Aloys understanding of the world. And once I'm done with those 2 quest lines, I play the machine strike boards and then I'm kinda over it... Which is sad bc it's a beautiful game but somehow lacks the depth it had in ZD. The dlc had one big saving grace for me and that's Gildun, I'd do anything for that man to get him a looking glass, he was definitely my most anticipated reunion and I'm glad he got some good writing!
What often bothered me, especially in cutscenes, was that the sun often changes its position. Especially noticeable in the scene from Burning Shores when Aloy and Seyka are talking to each other on the beach. In one scene the sun shines behind Seyka, in the next it's to Aloy's right again🥴
great video, i felt a little stupid to "hate" so much about that game after loving zero dawn so much
That get up animation length was ridiculous. Did it made game harder?, no, but it sure made combat annoying. Aloy swinging over desks with slight button push and then getting stuck in front of twigs was bad character control experience. Graphics were very pretty.
The parry mechanic can be tricky, cause it wouldn't make sense for aloy to be able to parry a thunderjaw attack, but it would for human enemies, also a lot of machines special attacks wouldt make sense to be parriable, they would have to make a fairly complex parrying system for it to translate and feel right, so i see why they didnt.
A way they could do it, is have the shield only be able to block energy or elemental based attacks, while being unable to stop physical attacks, but in the heat of battle, that would be hard to execute w/o it looking clunky or janky.
One thing I you said that i wanna emphasize is how much time aloy spends incapacited after an attack, its soooo frustrating, It was specially bad when traversing the world, in HZD i found myself doging forwards non stop to get somehwere faster, and it was very seamless and quick in HZD, but in FW, the roll animation seems to suffer from the same problem as in combat, she just takes too long to complete the animations, and the following button press, seems to not be as reliable, you have to press it multiple times for it to register simply because the time window for the command is always unclear.
I only played HFW this last 2 weeks and finished yesterday. That means I've played Palworld first. And maaaaan did the shieldwing made me miss my fucking Galeclaw. That mofo kept your momentum when you called him, plus using him as your glider rather than an actual glider came with the perk that he swoops in, adding to your momentum, boosting your forward. Plus leveling up his Pal ability makes you drop slower. So you could literally grapple or run then jump and call galeclaw, launching yourself around the battlefield for evasive maneuvers, PLUS YOU CAN SHOOT WHILE GLIDING WITH GALECLAW. Palworld is all fun. 100%
Its super picky of me, but Aloy accutaly says the shield is to damaged after the fight to be used effectivly as a shield when she takes it off the dead guy
11:56 i agree on the aquatic animals despawning. Its really annoying
While I respect the effort put into the in-depth critique of Horizon Forbidden West, it feels more like nitpicking than a holistic assessment. If applied to 99% of the games, you might find similar issues. But, considering the game's cross-gen development, initial focus on PS4, and the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, it's reasonable to acknowledge that not every detail can be perfect. Games are complex projects, and they don't always strive for absolute realism. It might be beneficial to keep in mind the broader development context and the practical constraints faced by the team.
Do u think they fix something in PC version? it will came out soon
About 6 hours into the 1st game I started playing in 2017 and I play a bit every year. Thinking I might be wrong about the game but to this day 2024 I can’t get into it.
You and me both...
And I love both think they’re equally awesome and appreciate it for what it is because it took many hours to do
I finished it 2 days ago, and while it had a ton of amazing moments, it felt comfortable with having meaingless side content to pad the runtime out. Some of it is great, but most isnt worth playing. It's the most inconsistent game I've played in a while, but I had a good time overall, especially with the dlc
You sir have an underrated channels and this video made me realize why I love the first game more. In my opinion Zero Dawn had more focus, more satisfying progression, and a much better narrative. Finding out who Aloy is, what happened to the world before, and seeing her prove herself is more interesting. Whereas in Forbidden West there were tons of complex narrative elements they tried to make work but didn’t. Zero Dawn’s world felt like it had a lot without feeling too big, and Forbidden West went really big at the expense of feeling bloated by the end. Something I felt the first game didn’t have. The world and environment felt natural in Zero Dawn and in Forbidden West it felt disjointed like you said. And as much as I like the new gameplay and combat additions I feel like fights in this game got too messy. I do think it’s a good game but they fumbled a bit on this one. Again, coming from someone who loved the first and considered it a 10/10 title.
The amount of stupid plot hole’s introduced with the rushed trash that is “nemesis” completely ruins this games narrative. And the reliance on a rogue Hephaestus to save the world is so dumb bcuz it couldve just slipped straight back into the cauldrons without helping them at all and why beta needed to “input” Hephaestus, by itself, into the printer in the first place was dumb as hell, hephaestus had already been tamed by gaia so theres no reason why beta couldnt have just connected a gaia controlled Hephaestus into the same printer and accomplished the same task. The zero communication and secretive final plan to take out the specters was beyond stupid, there was no reason for aloy to keep her plan to SAVE THE WORLD a secret from the people that were trying to help her save it just bcuz “this is between sisters”. Having tilda kill gerard was the most unsatisfying and stupid thing they couldve done with him although they did make the zeniths extremely boring and one dimensional villains so what does it really matter. This game shouldve ended with the far zeniths being defeated(NO NEMESIS) and that shouldve been the end of the story and series instead they decided to milk it into a third installment and give us faro plague 2.0 zenith edition unbelievably horrible writing and completely disrespectful to the greatness that was the first game and forbidden west up until this shit show of an ending
I disagree with what you said in the beginning. The detail is amazing.
I love how you critique too little realism on the source of rivers AND THEN critique in the next sentence too much realism in deeper waters. Pick your side, either much realism or less realism. Elsewise a really nice critique video, although sometimes a bit too nitpicky for my taste but everyone has different tastes
Excellently put
Horizon Forbidden West is lacking, and we have to fix it before the next game, as a community 🏹
I started playing this right after playing Tears of the Kingdom, so the climbing mechanic in this game became something absolutely annoying, stupid and ultimately irritating to me. The whole traversal feel so clunky it's so unenjoyable to travel the map.
You are saying the environment is a bit too detailed and so a bit too much. The game for me is overwhelming, also in the visual details. But also in the too many quests, way too many characters and in a lot more. These data points you find also are very dull. Their next game, though I admire them for making this game, should go back to HZD structure.
Lol it's funny cause I love the beach and sand, lighting and more. Very nitpicky but fun video nonetheless!
Lol ngl you sound like the fun police, but you made some valid points
Yea there’s some valid points but the bulk of the vid is nitpicky criticism that can be applied to almost every game
When I got the shield I was so happy, as I thought I could start playing as a sword and board playstyle from then on. After the realization that the shield is only a glider my heart sank, and the game only went downhill from there. It's a technically impressive game, with very good art and sound design...But the gameplay and the story are so...bland...I was disappointed after I finished it.
:: Slow clap 👏 ::
I've never played H:FW, but just watching your essay made it clear to me that I never really need to, as these issues would definitely have broken my will to continue long before the credits roll on the ending. I really enjoy great open worlds, like RDR2, and this would've been just a massive annoyance and disappointment.
Big but simple issue.
Current gen only or last gen as well.
Everything u described can be done for ps5 only and cpus.
How ever if in ps4 do u really expect devs to optimize that much if this is not current gen only?
Honest question.
Nice critique!
I think the game was too ambitious... I still played it but I felt overwhelmed with the whole new mechanic stuff and the things you must remember so as to play the way they want you to play
my god is there no pleasing you? This game has more depth than most games combined and it's amazingly fun to experiment and learn from it. And the story so far beats out every narrative to any game...except perhaps the first TLOU game, but they're miles apart.
I am about 70 hrs into HFW on the PC. I do really like it but I totally agree with the "no fun here" signs you mention.
I loathe the melee combat. It is horrendous with all the knock downs/stun locks you get. Human combat is terrible so I'll never fo the fighting pit stuff.
Ditto for the arena as I enjoy the game so much more when being a proper long range high vantage point hunter and arenas are the opposite of that. Why the f*** woukd a dev lock the best sniper bows behind a crapot arena thing?
Then there is the "crafting". I thought I'd gotten away from such amazing quests as "get ten badger rectums" when I finally gave up on mmos but no! You want to get the best out of your purple gear then get ready to grind!
the knockdown animations are so frustrating in combat. They look good and more realistic but the pacing of combat suffers a lot. I find myself screaming at Aloy to get the F up already so i can get back control already and dodge an attack i see coming a mile away. I dont recall having this issue in zero dawn.
The spear combat is a complete miss imo. I dont find it any good fighting big machines, it makes me having to be so close to a machine and exposed to its attacks, when i can just take some distance instead and fire more powerful ranged attacks. Ultimately The added value of more spear combos doesnt make it less useless than HZD, compared to ranged attacks.
Also there are so many materials to collect i dont even bother to get familiar with them. In HZD yellow flowers were for fire damage potions, blue for freeze damage etc. Now i just list it as a job and go collect whatever the side list tells me like im in a fkin supermarket.
And last of all are the weapons. Why the hell do we need so many variations to the same weapon type? I get it that there are more elements like plasma and water etc, but why do i need to carry 2 to 4 bows in the weapons wheel (1 for fire and acid, 1 for freeze and water, 1 hunter, 1 sharpshot) just so i have enough elemental counter ready in combat. This just makes me keep changing almost my entire weapon wheel depending on the machine im about to fight. "I need this weapons for that part, this weapon for that part" Makes to preperation for a battle like studying for a test.
oh man, I'm sorry those waves look terrible. The wave and crest object look entirely divorced from each other, you can see the sharp edge of the wave through the surf. It also just kind of vanishes abruptly. I'm genuinely confused, the water I saw in the marketing and trailers looked great, as do those in the rivers, lakes and pools shown. Were the shoreline waves made by a different team or something? Perhaps one in a landlocked region?
Maybe put the visual critiques to near the end with the story, since they really feel quite minor and nitpicky compared to the much more obvious gameplay problems
It depends can you be more Specific about it the gameplay? Combat machine , melee combat ? I found genuine videos they explain very well and go in depth so can learn much more. Zero dawn melee combat is simple and generic but forbidden west removes that generic and completely transformed so unique and still room for improvement, and the combat for the machines was already amazing and unique in zero dawn and now even better more layers
Imagine developing this, spending weeks of your life, and some guy spends 30 minutes of a review talking about how terrible it is that there’s so much awesome detail
Yea, horizon is a weird game for me, it seems like a game i should absolutely be in love with, but im just meh towards it.
Same, it has so much from the first game that i just love, but it wasnt untill i watched this video that i really could put into words way it never grabbed me like that first one did, to the point that i gust got bord and moved on before finishing it. honestly looking back i wish i could return it. its not as bad as many other AAA games can get, but these issues make me gust want to play a better game, like zelda.
Pretty much agree on nearly all points. The stamina-check "stumble" on the third dodge, ridiculous enemy tracking and 'sliding', inconsistent hitboxes + delayed knockdown animation, and the nerfing of the stuff that made HZD combat fun (tripcaster, tear)... all made this game substantially inferior to the first. The first game felt like a fluid dance with the long-dodge and i-frames; HFW seems to prioritize long range combat, elemental rock-paper-scissors, and DPS equipment grinding above all else. 31:32 shows how BS the combat sometimes feels.
This game oddly reminds me of Crysis. Especially Crysis 2.
Sure, Crysis 2 was pretty neat. But it's also dull. It almost feels like a fake game, a tech demo made into a full game.
Horizon has amazing graphics. But it feels like an overly long demo.
I gave up after 80 hours and sold the game.
I hate the fact that there are many merchants that sell unique weapons, but you can't pin or mark them in any way.
You can't say "cool weapon, when I find the materials I'll come back", because that could happen after hours, and by then you'll have forgotten his location, and then you'll have to check them all again.
Weapon variety is also a lie, there are 5 or 6 different weapons, and then there are the same weapons with different elements, they play effectively the same, but you have to upgrade them all separately.
kinda old comment but you can actually pin weapons and gear being sold.. kinda, you can create jobs which appear under the quest tab in the jobs section, and they tell you what you need and where to find it, you can also do this with upgrades
These are all really good critiques except for the bit about climbing trees. In the footage you showed, there was nothing actually in tree, so its understandable that the devs didn't spend the time making the tree climbable. I think the main problem with Horizon climbing is how limited the movement is. There are only specific perches you can move too. I think they could have developed a more free form climbing system that would allow climbing anywhere, including the trees, which would free up exploration and make the annoying glowing perch lines redundant.
Objectively this game is excellent every single visual detail is delicious and gameplay is super fluid.
But the only issue is the narrative, it’s not good or bad, it’s just slightly above “meh”.
Yeah, had a good story. But it had the potential to be legendary.
THE GAME PLAY MECHANICS WERE VERY POOR.
Very interesting critique. Some valid points, some less so!
Killing off Sona's only two children over the two games seemed unnecessarily cruel and really mean spirited.
I had to reload a save, losing hours of gameplay, once I realised being nice had denied me one of the best weapons in the game, Regalla's Wrath!
My biggest gripe with the game though, was the relentless grind required to upgrade weapons and outfits. The number of Dreadwings and Frostclaws I had to kill to fully upgrade my weapons was frustrating to say the least. Furthermore, I probably had to kill about 200 Tremortusks just to get the ten impact coils I needed to upgrade my preferred weapons!
But worst of all, was losing my shield weaver armour from the first game. All they had to do was require us to recharge the batteries over a few early quests. Acquiring it in the first game was a highlight, only to then realise there was no game left to enjoy it was a huge disappointment.
Otherwise, I've really enjoyed the series, but have little interest in getting a PS5 just to play the Burning Shores DLC. What were they thinking...!!!
The best example of the game taking 2 steps back for me, is in it's cosmetic department. I loved that they finally added outfit dyes and added more face paints but then it gets thrown away by the fact that if you want to change them, you would have to travel (or fast travel) all the way back to the dyer and face painter just to change it again, and for a game released for next gen, they have this outdated system that ruins your immersion and wastes your time, especially since in the first game, you can change the face paint whenever you like
Yes it's good video, Guerrilla Games see it's video
I felt the same for the visuals and graphics its unnatural
Something seems amiss; at first, you expressed enjoyment for the game, and some of your assessments feel misleading. There's a sense that something isn't quite right here, and it's leaving me uneasy.
I'm starting to feel misled by some of your assessments, as it seems you're incorporating aspects that don't accurately represent the entire situation. Please be mindful of incorporating negativity, as it might not provide a fair and balanced view of the overall picture 10:50 to 12:00
Good channel, a sweet little gem in a sea of shit
It awesome that you went to this much trouble critiquing the game
The second game just wasn’t as fun. Thanks for helping me understand why
No fun allowed accurately sums up this game
Gameplay is really boring now, especially the looting and upgrading, and as mentioned in the video many other things puts me off. I especially agree with using maybe explosive arrows to blow up crumbled walls to get where you need to. The mechanic where you need a spear to activate some crystals to blow the wall or you need a hook to get to that location, or you need a rebreather to reach another location, it just takes me out of the game. It feels like i need a red, yellow and blue key cards and i am just opening locked doors. No creativity at all.
The story feels like playing sims 3, i skip everything now, i am 0% interested. In Witcher 3, the side characters often take a role in the main quest. Like Yennefer using black magic to revive someone and find more info. It actually feels sometimes that you are the side character in Witcher 3. There doesn't seem to be anything interesting like that in Forbidden West, except for the only 1 time at the beginning with Hades. Instead of using Hades in interesting ways we just got rid of him. In Elden Ring the story is heavily affecting the ending, and the game is trying to influence you to make some interesting decisions. Like the Manor, hunt your fellow tarnished to get to Rykard. or choose the 3 fingers. In Forbidden West, why not use the Zenith for example, like we have Gaia and they want Gaia, give them a copy of Gaia, they leave the planet and maybe they give us something in return. or fight them and take their tech yourself.
This game is really bad for me, it's like a 6/10.
Clowns those days
I haven't finished it because the Story put me off. Or the execution of it.
The best female protagonist was Ripley in Alien. I just cant get involved in a storyline that involves a weird manipulation of how men and women in any sense arnt realistic.
I agree with much of what you saying, but your ever repeating question "did they not noticed this, or did they not care?" shows you are not taking into account a process of game making. Most of these looked to me as "they didn't have time, or they had to allocate resources elsewhere for this to run properly".
Well that really sucks. Thought i had found a Cool good looking game to play on my new 85 inch 4k TV. After watching this is gonna be a Hard Pass. Thanks for saving me the disappointment.
You're missing out.
@@danc1513 you think it's still worth getting it even with these supposed problems?
@@mrk4510 problems ? this video doesn't feel like a criticism more like a nitpick? Don't let one person's nitpicks in a video sway you too much. If they apply the same scrutiny to other games, you'd probably find same issues in 99% of them. It's like saying we shouldn't play any games and just stick to reality. So give the game a go!
@@Ricardo29j that's Cool, I always thought it looked really good. I'll give it a try. Thanks
@@mrk4510felt this way until i beat ff16 im just glad to have an open world I can explore and regular combat and enemies
i agree with your point about the graphics. i can't play this game for too long because my eyes become so strained
Commenting for the algorithm!
The amount of stupid plot hole’s introduced with the rushed trash that is “nemesis” completely ruins this games narrative. And the reliance on a rogue Hephaestus to save the world is so dumb bcuz it couldve just slipped straight back into the cauldrons without helping them at all and why beta needed to “input” Hephaestus, by itself, into the printer in the first place was dumb as hell, hephaestus had already been tamed by gaia so theres no reason why beta couldnt have just connected a gaia controlled Hephaestus into the same printer and accomplished the same task. The zero communication and secretive final plan to take out the specters was beyond stupid, there was no reason for aloy to keep her plan to SAVE THE WORLD a secret from the people that were trying to help her save it just bcuz “this is between sisters”. Having tilda kill gerard was the most unsatisfying and stupid thing they couldve done with him although they did make the zeniths extremely boring and one dimensional villains so what does it really matter. This game shouldve ended with the far zeniths being defeated(NO NEMESIS) and that shouldve been the end of the story and series instead they decided to milk it into a third installment and give us faro plague 2.0 zenith edition unbelievably horrible writing and completely disrespectful to the greatness that was the first game and forbidden west up until this shit show of an ending
Everything else can be ignored......this games biggest flaw is the trash horrible story.
And just when you think the story is bad the dlc gets released with an even worse story.
Forbidden West did more harm than good for the horizon franchise.
Thank you for consolidating my thoughts about the game. Like you, I also love Horizon. However, I also share your criticisms.
The details in this sequel's world and its biomes are noisy. All the explosion of colours and textures look gauche. The world isn't fun to navigate. That glider is, for a lack of an eloquent word, stupid. The combat is very strict about enemy hitboxes and attack windows. Getting knocked down is disheartening. And the narrative beats that bookend every chapter is, well, meh.
I love the game but HFW made itself a challenge to receive that level of affection because it doesn't reciprocate. It always finds a way to push me away as much as it pulls me back in.
A game that does the reverse of all my complaints is Ghost of Tsushima. Like the wind, it draws you in, breathes life into you and reciprocates the love you give.
It has great visual balance. It controls with ease. And the story makes you care. Thinking about how good GOT is makes me want to play it again hahaha!
Whoever made this video probably thinks God of Bore Ragnarok was a great game 😂😂😂
First game was better in almost every way. From graphics and physics to the story. I'm actually unable to finish FW. ZD I restarted as soon as I finished first playthrough.
Sure, different woke level in those 2 games does play a role but mainly it's unpolished feeling and weaker story.
I'm playign through now, and I'm struggling to stay with it. The gameplay aspects are great, the combat, exploration, collecting, etc. But the story and characterizations are killign me. ALoy was such an adorable little girl, where did it all go wrong, lo. She's practically insufferable in this one. They ramped up the matriarchal power fantasy aspect to 11, ramped up the weird and unattrractive characters to 11. I just quickly read and jump through the dialog so i don't have to listen to them. CLimate propaganda all over the datapoints, grrr. And I know what happens in the DLC already, if I get there.
You do make a handful of decent points but there are 3 big red flags for me in this video. 1, you complain about skill tree locking the skills you want further down the tree forcing you to get other skills before its almost like if they allowed you to get the best skills early it would be game breaking and literally every single action adventure RPG game does this. 2, you complain about enemies forcing you to do combos to break their stances in spear combat but you are showing the pit gameplay....that is the ENTIRE POINT of the pits it forces you to use those combos because its teaching you how to do them......they are optional spear combat tutorials, I never once was forced to use a combo in free combat. 3, you complain about stealth not being able to manipulate enemies paths or be able to use other enemies against each other when you have rocks to manipulate the paths and Berserk arrows to turn machines against other enemies. Its almost like you didn't actually use all the systems/resources available to you. IMO I'm doing way much more damage and taking machines down way easier and faster than in Zero dawn because they have allowed you to max/min your playstyle/gameplay loop that you enjoy by wearing a outfit that enhances the core skills that you want to focus on.....if you try to be a jack of all trades in this game like in zero dawn you simply will feel weaker.