If you want EVEN MORE of my thoughts you can find them on patreon where any tier unlocks a written post mortem a few days after a video upload. www.patreon.com/AdamSrayi
AAA gaming is hard, the more realistic the environments get the more believable the player expects the game to be, so we are looking at the cubed law rule to make these games, you'd need massive staff to deliver within a reasonable time frame. And that would be ok but are you willing to spend $1000 on one game? Games are creative artforms that a cubed law would proportionally take away from. The AAA critique is what is killing it. AAA needs to be simplified to be better, it may have to go more indie in style.
I pretty much agree with you on everything except the combat! You are not supposed to play aggressively! You are supposed to play tactically, systematically disabling enemies! Also, apparently, the devs originally intended for you to have a shield but removed it since it would "overcomplicate controls".
the reason why Zero Dawn had a big city (Meridian) while the Forbidden West had small cities, is that the carja are more advanced and civilised than the tenakth whom are more like tribal and almost nomadic, and were always at war with each other until recently when Hekarro united them.
Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with a number of your points... Stealth for one - 'You don't have the ability to manipulate enemy patterns'.You have rocks to throw as distractions, a full invisibility skill to infiltrate undetected and disrupt, outfits and mods that are quieter than others for sneaking to draw attention without full detection, and even shooting arrows from a distance can draw attention. You can use your focus to highlight routine patterns to see where they've been broken. Ability to set traps is limited - ultimately, yes of course it's not UNLIMITED, that would be ridiculous - but if your play style is stealth, there are upgrades, gear, outfits, skills and modifications specifically for trappers... Everything from multiple types of anti-air traps, explosives, different types of trip wires, stagger beams, canister harpoons and floating mines! As for getting human enemies and machines to fight either other? You have the Beserk arrow type to confuse and enrage any enemy to attack those in the vicinity (including machines) AND the Targeting arrow type to even direct overidden machines (hacked to be on your side either aggressively or passively) toward any enemy you want... Aim it at a human, and you have both fighting each other. While I agree on some aspects, there are many other oversights and I feel like there's not been enough time and creative experimentation with the systems to make some of these claims.
Well you disagreed with only 2 out of the 20+ things mentioned in this video lol. Decent counter points, but I’m hoping the developers improve everything mentioned in this video.
@@mickael486 it would mainly be for fighting other humans. Rolling around is very awkward and a shield would be much more fun and effective to fight them. But yes, against the machines the shield wouldn't make sense. And the combat against machines is great as it is
@@allandm so the shield would basically only work for arrows... that's fair. but definitely not a deal breaker if there isn't one. Fighting humans (in camps) is still pretty great and requires some smart stealth mechanics that I'd be afraid would not be necessary if the game had a shield.
@@mickael486 fair enough, it comes down to preference at the end of the day. I don't really enjoy human fights in horizon, and if they gave her a parry/ a lock on and block it would feel better to me personally. Something like Kena bridge of spirits (the buttons are surprisingly similar to horizon)
I started HFW last weekend and it doesn't reach the same level of playability as HZD. My biggest gripe is the new controls - i hate key-combos for attacks. Plus, I often accidentally trigger the dodge mechanic when trying to manouvre around an obstruction, causing me to roll off a cliff or into a mob. I much prefer fewer skills and more reliable controls. The 4-5 part puzzles in the game, also mentioned in this video, are a chore instead of a rewarding experience. The reward is often in a place I feel you should be able to get to without going through all the steps. Rewards are often visible though holes in the wall, but you cannot crawl through the hole. Even though size indicates it should be easily possible. This make the puzzle feel something that's completely unnecesary but you're forced to work through. I had hoped they improved on the climbing mechanic for this sequel, allowing the freedom to climb everything anywhere. Unfortunately, it's still a case of hopping from one predetermined spot to another. For me, this is the most immersion breaking part of the game.
For me, the biggest frustration with the combat by far is the fact all the machines, from the burrower to the tide ripper, are equally nimble. They all move on a dime, it's nearly impossible to circle around the bigger machines, they just sorta slide around in place to prevent you from being able to get behind them to hit weak points. You effectively have to use the same strategy on every machine in order to defeat them. The first game had the same problem, but it's exacerbated in this one. It's pretty ridiculous that a large, limbering, aquatic machine can be so nimble on land in only that specific respect.
Agreed plus alloy takes so much time to get up. Yet a 60 ft machine is like a ballet dancer. The way they target u is like dark souls you dodge and the projectiles will float and target u behind rocks, hit u through walls and then move so fast u cant counter a dodged attack that you should be able to hit. Its horrible tbh one big part of the game i hate. Ima melee fighter first thats how i play most games unless they offer good magic like a dragons aga game. I barley use magic in souls because it sucks and isnt fun. Just wish the machines didnt spend target 360 degress with an attack in order to hit u. So unrealistic.
If you want to hold a machine in place, you can use the adhesive arrows or bombs to gum them up, ropecaster to tie them down, or a smoke bomb to disorientate them. Wholly agree it is pretty tricky to circle strafe, though there are tools to make things easier.
I tested this on every machine. I moved my left analog stick back and forth vigorously and they robots did the same. It’s horrible. Even in concentration mode they live incredibly fast. Or move as you release. Which I tested that to. So I had to trick the AI and aim at a different point that I didn’t want to shoot and then quickly shoot what I really wanted. Horrid
Your comments on the ruins is 100%. I stopped doing them cause i didnt give a fuck about spending 10 mins for a puzzle just to find a fucking ornament that changes vegas lights. Fuck that.
Bit late reaction from me but stumbled on the video and this comment but the ancestor return (rewarded from completing them all) is great and worth the hustle if u r just there for the story then dont bother with them
Something I wished you talked about during the combat section was the arena challenges. As it is right now, the arena is fine, but the knocked down mechanic is really apparent here. Aloy takes so long to get back up after falling down, and the amount of machines in the arena means there will almost always be one to knock you down straight after. This is all made worse by the fact that, in order to get the top reward, you need to beat them within a certain timeframe, and when half of that time is spent recovering from falls you (most likely) dodged, it feels a little unfair. The arena also highlights just how much could have been done with the combat, in terms of contextual attacks. The time you spend getting to higher ground could be worth it if you could jump off walls onto enemies or use the glider more reliably. It’s a really cool concept that - once I’d heard about it - devoted time figuring out how to unlock, but once I did the first challenge and realised exactly how unpolished the combat was in this setting, I never came back to. This is sad because, just like you, I really enjoyed the game. What you said about how we should criticise the things we enjoy just as much as the things we like is so well put. Your video highlights issues you have in a clear and concise way without entirely shitting on a game that (in my opinion) was totally worth my time. Thanks for making it, you’ve got some real talent!
I, for one, don't do the arena fights. Nor the hunting grounds, for that matter. However, I do agree with Aloy getting knocked down. It takes a little too much time for her to get back up, and in that time, especially if you're low on health, the next attack could easily kill you. I mean, I get that she's older, but not That much older. Though with the way her character design is in this one, she looks significantly older than 6 months later. In my opinion, anyway.
10:36 feels a bit too nitpicky, they probably made it more silent so that it doesn’t blast your eardrums in contrast to other stuff. But I do wish that the water ripples, sand/snow deformation was made by machines, just look at the slitherfang, it leaves no traces in the sand
@@nehemiahpouncey3607my guy...you are not very smart. They have confirmed horizon 3. Not just that, but it's an incredibly small minority mad that she's gay. Why does it matter if she's gay, straight or bi? Lol she's a fictional character. Y'all really get triggered so easily, it's sad
@@PeachShortcake_ I am a gay woman and didn't even know Aloy would have feelings for a woman in the DLC. It is so rare to see this in games. I fully enjoyed it, and them going on a couple of quests together too. Magic.
@@SladeLit is not rarely it’s nearly in every game and every show these days. And forget if you have children how they see this. Forcing sexuality upon gamers instead of just letting it be a video game has become the norm. I play games to play games. Not to see a characters sexual preference.
The first take about visuals is so based! As a professional 3D artist I couldn't agree more, HFW suffers from the same problems the Transformers series does. Visual fidelity is so high human eye cannot possibly take anything valuable from it, and it gets worse because of the lightning. I do believe lighting plays a huge role here. Yes, it features better GI, but lacks contrast and darkening in cavities, so it makes overdetailed image even worse - by making all parts of the object evenly lit without telling more about its shape. So, in the end, I prefer HZD image more since it actually features better contrast and makes the image more readable by simply having fewer details - thus more interesting to look at. Why cannot artists take a step back with the visuals and stop making the same mistakes transformers did?
Corporate overloads and marketing department which sells games on graphics, you remember for sure “16x the details”. I fully agree that too much details create a noise and make the image less readable. Which will for some players cause to press the focus buttons every few seconds not to miss things. Especially that resources are very important.
I would be so curious to see what would happen if a studio like this put this much time and resources into creating a shorter game set in a much, much smaller area that is full developed and polished. I think that could really be something special
0:00 - Intro 1:32 - The Visuals 16:30 - The Gameplay 37:27 - The Story It hurt that you talk bad things about this game. BUT! To be fair it is true and you make a really really good point. Something is missing in this game.
@@AdamSrayiHZD/HFW combat irritates me in such a specific way. The boss designs are great and really inspired from both a visual and gameplay standpoint.... But Alloys restricted basic movement and melee attacks, and her stop-&-start combat flow with the bow stops me fully enjoying the enemy encounter It's like having a room full of gold, but only allowed to look at it through a key hole (bosses being gold & Alloy herself being therestricting key hole)
Agreed lol. I love this game and the overall series so much. I'm glad there are creators out there with differing critiques as well as praise for it. Around the 20 minute mark, talking about the invisible barriers was so accurate, I'm glad someone brought it up. Let me traverse buildings, trees and have alternate paths to relic ruins 😫
This was a really interesting critique! Watched some other videos and no one else could really pinpoint why the creature designs felt off, but your point about the Tallnecks having a combination of machine elements and animal parts put the whole thing together in my head! Great video.
you make several great points and i hope GG takes notes for the next installment. just a tiny nitpick, 25:00 the game drags you down there specifically to prevent you from entering a story location. i haven't personally experienced that drastic of a drag-down while gliding anywhere else in the game
Very good Analyse. The games development surely had a bigger, higher, faster approach and while it had a view highlights like vegas i was ultimately dissappointed. Especially regarding the story which was just aweful and lazy written.
I have soooo much beef with the story, character writing, character development and even dialogue I could cry. Especially given how well the first game was written and how much potential many of the ideas had. I really don't understand what happened with the writing team.
@@Taya27 Indeed. HZD's story was original, intriguing, exciting. HFW's story is schematic, the hyper-super-intelligent swirling blob of red that destroys everything is just uncreative and unbelievable. I wish the story would be more inspired since this franchise is so groundbreaking and awesome.
8:30 These inconsistencies in lighting are actually due to the fact they made a lot of artificial lights. I mean all characters and their faces have some weird backlight from nowhere. I can understand this for static images to make it more visually interesting. But in motion, it rather feels weird, ESPECIALLY outside of the cutscenes. I would rather like to have just the sun as a single light source in a scene. Especially considering their engine got better with GI (Or maybe it's not and this is the reason they just cranked up the ambient light?).
Its super picky of me, but Aloy accutaly says the shield is to damaged after the fight to be used effectivly as a shield when she takes it off the dead guy
My absolute biggest annoyance is the second you attack one of the machines, the rest of them almost always gang up on you even if you've separated them a good distance apart. Not to mention their barrage of AOE attacks that keep coming at you from a mile away leads to some veeeery annoying battles. This literally happens 99% of the time. Of course I am playing on hardest difficulty so usually just 2 hits and I'm bye bye. Not fun.
Getting ganged up on is fine, the barrage of ranged attacks gets iffy. What really makes it annoying is the tracking on these attacks. A Shockwave should not curve to hit you. I often get killed because something curved to hit me or clipped through geometry.
On the story: sci fi is interesting as a platform to introduce new ideas, new concepts, new technology with new applications and new implications. All this with the emphesis on NEW. The first story did a great job and made the story interesting. The second story made it a back drop. The introduction of the zeniths could have been a great stage of colliding civilisations with the introduction of new technology infusing with the existing ones we already had. It's hard to explore this world after the main mission. It's all in all pretty but shallow.
His critique on the graphics, vegetation and biomes are on point. I find it hard to focus on the things that matter when there is too much to look at. SC2 allows you to lower many graphic settings that allow you to focus on the gameplay more.
the knockdown animations are so frustrating in combat. They look good and more realistic but the pacing of combat suffers a lot. I find myself screaming at Aloy to get the F up already so i can get back control already and dodge an attack i see coming a mile away. I dont recall having this issue in zero dawn. The spear combat is a complete miss imo. I dont find it any good fighting big machines, it makes me having to be so close to a machine and exposed to its attacks, when i can just take some distance instead and fire more powerful ranged attacks. Ultimately The added value of more spear combos doesnt make it less useless than HZD, compared to ranged attacks. Also there are so many materials to collect i dont even bother to get familiar with them. In HZD yellow flowers were for fire damage potions, blue for freeze damage etc. Now i just list it as a job and go collect whatever the side list tells me like im in a fkin supermarket. And last of all are the weapons. Why the hell do we need so many variations to the same weapon type? I get it that there are more elements like plasma and water etc, but why do i need to carry 2 to 4 bows in the weapons wheel (1 for fire and acid, 1 for freeze and water, 1 hunter, 1 sharpshot) just so i have enough elemental counter ready in combat. This just makes me keep changing almost my entire weapon wheel depending on the machine im about to fight. "I need this weapons for that part, this weapon for that part" Makes to preperation for a battle like studying for a test.
I played and beat this game and couldn't help but feel like it was slightly disappointing the entire time but could never figure out why. You summed it up perfectly for me
While I respect the effort put into the in-depth critique of Horizon Forbidden West, it feels more like nitpicking than a holistic assessment. If applied to 99% of the games, you might find similar issues. But, considering the game's cross-gen development, initial focus on PS4, and the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, it's reasonable to acknowledge that not every detail can be perfect. Games are complex projects, and they don't always strive for absolute realism. It might be beneficial to keep in mind the broader development context and the practical constraints faced by the team.
Opinions are complex, and they don't always strive for absolute internal consistency or positivity. It might be beneficial to keep in mind that other people can have multifaceted opinions, or even criticisms, about a work of fiction you enjoyed.
Great video, there are some fair and valid points.The visual aspect you mentioned is more noticeable when playing in performance mode with the checkerboarded dynamic res it's using so details can be lost, the quality mode is a lot cleaner in that regard. But even with all these nitpicking flaws the game might have it still doesn't really bother or hurt my overall experience I have with the game. They are fair and valid points for sure, but that can surely be improved with the third game. I still adore this game either way and have it as one of my favorite open world games ever. A shield is something I do want to see in the third game though, a parry mechanic would be very useful.
You make dozens upon dozens of valid and eye opening criticisms, but the game still was just awesome af to play, no? The two biggest ones to harp on - aloy getting stunlocked and the combat vs humans. holy shit the fight vs the enduring is like the perfect culmination of all those frustrations. And then there is the arena challenges chasing the best time possible, oh my those were something. especially with the developer provided loadouts. two more things I wish you mentioned were the game wants you to use all these different weapons and techniques vs machines and to hit specific parts but then it becomes extremely difficult to use said weapons and hit those parts in practice. Giant machines will have 15 spots to shoot and you have so many options but it's next to impossible to even see any of them or get a clear shot cus you have to get too close and risk getting stomped and stunlocked. so each of those fights in the end game turns into use level 3 power and spam your hardest hitting weapon killing all the variation. the second thing is I remember the minigame races being absolute TORTURE. awful gameplay mechanics. really don't like when these games just shove in stuff from other games to give more things for the player to do. goes for the chess game as well. but to bring some more positivity back, the end of the 3rd act and flying the machine in the story was instantly one of my favorite things I've ever done in a game. The franchise as a whole can introduce so many things to make it better, but damn I still give this game a 10/10. Really enjoyed my 95 hour 100% playthrough. The positives just heavily outweigh the negatives even though you really could nitpick the game to death.
This is actually a really good critique of the game I'm really happy it's a actual critique and not like one of those other videos where all they do is complain
I'm so glad you put into words some of my biggest gripes with the game. I feel like you, I like it, I had fun with it, but so many things frustrated me and didn't sit right. And often I couldn't really say why. I also thought all the details are stunning and impressive, but as a whole I didn't find it visually intriguing. And I also often can't play for more than an hour because all the visual noise is very exhausting for me to look at. So I completely agree with you here. The same goes for the design of the different settlements. Overall Plainsong is very cool to look at from a distance and a great idea, but when I'm in there orientation is hard and and don't know where to look first. I'm visually overwhelmed. I also very much agree with you on Aloy's agility (or lack thereof). A friend of mine said the same a while back; combat feels more stunted, less fluid than in the fist game. It feels like they wanted to make it more realistic, maybe, but when you sacrifice speed in a game that's focused on action heavy, fast combat it's just frustrating. I'm replaying ZD atm and can't believe how much fun I'm having with the combat. Yeah, there are a few tools from FW that I'd like to have but overall the rhythm of the combat is just really good. Also visually ZD is still stunning but more limited than FW, less noise. It's easier for me to focus on the landscape and enjoy the environment. I also had the feeling that all the ideas they tried to implement here don't really work together. I like the comparison to a theme park but wouldn't only keep it to the transition of the biomes (that doesn't bother me much) but also look at the different activities in this context. It really feels like there were different teams developing these different ideas pretty much in isolation and when sth was done it was just placed somewhere on the map. What I don't understand is why ZD doesn't feel like this at all to me though both games are very similar. All in all ZD feels much more polished to me and like everything was placed in the world with much more careful planning and intention. They were probably more limited in ZD when it comes to budget and resources thus they had to prioritize certain aspects over others and I think you can see this in certain areas (like human combat or the water etc), but that's absolutely fine bc, imo, they found the right priorities. You can not make everything great. Some things just have to be solid enough. It feels to me like in FW they made the same mistake that many sequels do, especially movie sequels, thinking "more is more". Instead of focusing on a few core ideas in areas of graphic design, gameplay and story they wanted to do all the things. But that makes it impossible to have an eye on everything, to make sure, everything connects well and have proper quality control. And I think it shows in almost every aspect. Oh sorry, I thought I was done but then I remembered what you said by the end about how the story unfolded and I felt the same disappointment. When I think what they could've done gameplay-wise when it comes to the problems 'caused by the subfunctions. I thought these would impede your progress very strongly and that you had to battle with them in some way to maybe unlock new parts of the map or to get to specific important equipment. I thought solving some of the environmental problems could unlock more side quests. I thought you would have to talk to the subfunctions, maybe even make a deal with them or sth to get them to come with you. There were a million ways to use these ideas to make the story and gameplay and even development of the map super unique and interesting. And you even could've left out the Zenith part completely, save it for the last game. Then you would've also had more room for the business of the tribes of the West. Wow, I really have to stop myself here. Could go on and on but this is your show. You said you had some very subjective opinions on the story. I'd love to hear those. Maybe you'll make another video about that at some point? I would also just read a blog entry or your google docs XDDD Thanks again for making this. It was a bit cathartic to me.
This was an amazing analysis! Thanks for being brutally honest!😂 This helped me a lot on whether or not I get this game. Too bad more game developers don't do things like the developers of Mario Wonder did and have no actual 'due date' and to just have fun making it. Amazing work on this video!
Having spent 100’s of hours climbing pointless hills on BOTW and TOTK, I personally find defined climbing routes one of the best features about this game. I can’t get my head around the common opinion that this is in some way a bad thing.
Because there are no climbing routes. You have to rely on the scanner thing or try it out to see if you can climb something. This guessing game kills the flow and immersion. Then you have this ugly yellow markers until you're done. Either everything is climbable, or nothing should be. You can't have a rock surface you can climb and then the same rock surface somewhere else is not climbable, at that point put clear markers like in the first game (the white ones).
@@Bob69303 far less time is spent pushing a button than climbing a pointless mountain in hope of a korok seed only to find nothing. Perhaps you haven’t tried to max these out on TOTK? + I fail to see what’s ugly about the lines, but that’s just my opinion and I don’t understand yours.
@@79bull the problem with your argument is that climbing is a mean to an end. The fact that in Zelda you might find nothing on top of a mountain, has nothing to do with Horizon, and has nothing to do with the climbing system either. In Zelda there are clear rules for climbing, in HFW there aren't. What you're implying is "if there are no climbable surfaces it means there's nothing to find, I don't have to waste time", but this is false. The video itself shows why, but time and time again I found myself in an area during exploration, then wanted to reach another location, and had to take a detour, because the rock surface in front of me wasn't climbable, for arbitrary reasons. Usually, when this happened I tried to jump my way through, like a mountain goat, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Even then, in a pretty game like Horizon, why can't I just climb to enjoy the view? The yellow markers are weird because they are in complete contrast with the realistic style of the world, especially considering that the predecessor solved this issue with yellow-ish metal objects and white rock edges. They could make a neon pink robot, and maybe you'd like it, it doesn't mean it'd fit into the world.
@@Bob69303 I’m sorry, not interested in debate. Because the only ‘problem’ with my opinion is it doesn’t align with yours. I have my opinion and you have yours. This is where it ends.
Since I accidentally nuked my original reply breaking down exactly why linear or near-linear traversal harms an open world, I'll boil my points down thusly: 1. Linear open-world design is antithetical to the genre itself. A genre which, by design, aims to give the player as much freedom as possible. Therefore, actively punishing the player for attempting to express their freedom is self-contradictory in practice. 2. Linear traversal design puts artificial limits on what the gameplay designers can do. If climbing only serves one specific function in one specific way, there's no room for mechanical diversity or player experimentation, which coincides with my first point. Nor is there a possibility for additional functionality or purpose beyond simply gaining vertical placement. 3. Forbidden West's almost automatic climbing removes the fear of failure and thus all tension. Without the imminent danger of gravity pulling you to the ground, climbing lacks subtance entirely. 4. While I understand the linearity, extending to the various half-baked traversal systems, of Forbidden West's open world serves its unchanging narrative, it highlights two prominent issues, one of which I addressed in my first point: The world serving the narrative, instead of the complete opposite, contradicts the freedom-centric philosophies inherent within its chosen genre, and the game's scope has caused a bit of a bloat-related issue, in that there are one too many half-baked, underdeveloped systems, mechanics, and concepts. Most of which never reach their full potential, outside of the bow. Continuing on from my fourth point, this, as in subpar execution in various regards, I'm fine with. Not every game needs an amalgamation of perfect systems, all working harmoniously together. If they all served something grander, a central focus of Forbidden West, and a tighter focus at that, one which elevated the experience from average to extraordinarily, there would be no issue. However, with Guerrilla's main priority clearly being Forbidden West's story, they failed. In lacking a compelling narrative with interesting characters, there's absolutely nothing to distract the player from Forbidden West's other glaring issues - they only pile on top of each other until there's a mountain of untapped potential too tall to ignore. Me, personally, when I look at this mountain, or any mountain in Forbidden West for that matter, I can't help but think games like Breath of the Wild, or Tears of The Kingdom, or Ghost of Tsushima, or Death Stranding, etc, etc, all serve as a window into the type of open world Forbidden West could have been. A potential beyond just being Zero Dawn again but bigger, which I hoped Guerrilla would strive for. However, it looks like the studio hasn't yet learned from their mistakes harkening back to the Killzone trilogy. Except, this time, it's not the lore being left untapped and neglected
About 6 hours into the 1st game I started playing in 2017 and I play a bit every year. Thinking I might be wrong about the game but to this day 2024 I can’t get into it.
You sir have an underrated channels and this video made me realize why I love the first game more. In my opinion Zero Dawn had more focus, more satisfying progression, and a much better narrative. Finding out who Aloy is, what happened to the world before, and seeing her prove herself is more interesting. Whereas in Forbidden West there were tons of complex narrative elements they tried to make work but didn’t. Zero Dawn’s world felt like it had a lot without feeling too big, and Forbidden West went really big at the expense of feeling bloated by the end. Something I felt the first game didn’t have. The world and environment felt natural in Zero Dawn and in Forbidden West it felt disjointed like you said. And as much as I like the new gameplay and combat additions I feel like fights in this game got too messy. I do think it’s a good game but they fumbled a bit on this one. Again, coming from someone who loved the first and considered it a 10/10 title.
The amount of stupid plot hole’s introduced with the rushed trash that is “nemesis” completely ruins this games narrative. And the reliance on a rogue Hephaestus to save the world is so dumb bcuz it couldve just slipped straight back into the cauldrons without helping them at all and why beta needed to “input” Hephaestus, by itself, into the printer in the first place was dumb as hell, hephaestus had already been tamed by gaia so theres no reason why beta couldnt have just connected a gaia controlled Hephaestus into the same printer and accomplished the same task. The zero communication and secretive final plan to take out the specters was beyond stupid, there was no reason for aloy to keep her plan to SAVE THE WORLD a secret from the people that were trying to help her save it just bcuz “this is between sisters”. Having tilda kill gerard was the most unsatisfying and stupid thing they couldve done with him although they did make the zeniths extremely boring and one dimensional villains so what does it really matter. This game shouldve ended with the far zeniths being defeated(NO NEMESIS) and that shouldve been the end of the story and series instead they decided to milk it into a third installment and give us faro plague 2.0 zenith edition unbelievably horrible writing and completely disrespectful to the greatness that was the first game and forbidden west up until this shit show of an ending
Awesome video. I noticed a lot of the things you mentioned, but couldn’t quite articulate what was wrong exactly. I hope these things are improved in the next game.
Gameplay is really boring now, especially the looting and upgrading, and as mentioned in the video many other things puts me off. I especially agree with using maybe explosive arrows to blow up crumbled walls to get where you need to. The mechanic where you need a spear to activate some crystals to blow the wall or you need a hook to get to that location, or you need a rebreather to reach another location, it just takes me out of the game. It feels like i need a red, yellow and blue key cards and i am just opening locked doors. No creativity at all. The story feels like playing sims 3, i skip everything now, i am 0% interested. In Witcher 3, the side characters often take a role in the main quest. Like Yennefer using black magic to revive someone and find more info. It actually feels sometimes that you are the side character in Witcher 3. There doesn't seem to be anything interesting like that in Forbidden West, except for the only 1 time at the beginning with Hades. Instead of using Hades in interesting ways we just got rid of him. In Elden Ring the story is heavily affecting the ending, and the game is trying to influence you to make some interesting decisions. Like the Manor, hunt your fellow tarnished to get to Rykard. or choose the 3 fingers. In Forbidden West, why not use the Zenith for example, like we have Gaia and they want Gaia, give them a copy of Gaia, they leave the planet and maybe they give us something in return. or fight them and take their tech yourself. This game is really bad for me, it's like a 6/10.
Same, it has so much from the first game that i just love, but it wasnt untill i watched this video that i really could put into words way it never grabbed me like that first one did, to the point that i gust got bord and moved on before finishing it. honestly looking back i wish i could return it. its not as bad as many other AAA games can get, but these issues make me gust want to play a better game, like zelda.
Its insane you dont have more followers. The quality of the vid is top notch ! the only thing i would possibly add to the growth of the channel is to talk faster. But thats my own opinion
When I got the shield I was so happy, as I thought I could start playing as a sword and board playstyle from then on. After the realization that the shield is only a glider my heart sank, and the game only went downhill from there. It's a technically impressive game, with very good art and sound design...But the gameplay and the story are so...bland...I was disappointed after I finished it.
I've been screaming about the damn shield since it released. Do what God of War did. The shield was one of my favorite things in that game. Even Spider-Man 2 has a parry now. It's baffling how they didn't implement it in Horizon.
whats the most crazy to me about the development of this game is most of your critiques they had already done in the first game! The blending of the different biomes, the strong designs of the towns and Meridian, making use of mounts, really cool, well developed, relatable side characters that are all gay for Aloy which i Loved(and felt like they rushed and ruined in the new dlc), the whole game truly feels like a backslide from the (in my opinion) perfect first game. its like they got so focused on making the bigger, prettier, crazier game and completely lost the plot of what made the first game so iconic on its own. I've got a lot of big feelings about this game 😅 I want to love it but I can't. The best piece from this series is Frozen Wilds.
I wholeheartedly agree with all your points. For me, Frozen Wilds is so far the peak of the series as well and I also couldn't really get into the romance between Seyka and Aloy in Burning Shores though that relationship was intentionally romantic while most interactions in ZD are completely free to interpretation. But I really have the feeling that Aloy has much more chemistry with even the side characters in ZD than even with some of the most important protagonists in FW. Though, the reason for that could also be that she is a mostly awful person in FW who lacking almost all of her patience, compassion, understanding, wonder and playfulness that she had in ZD. But that's just how I feel.
@@Taya27 I find that when I replay the game I really enjoy kotallo and Zo's quests the most, bc it dives into the cultures and explores the nuances between the characters, their tribes, and Aloys understanding of the world. And once I'm done with those 2 quest lines, I play the machine strike boards and then I'm kinda over it... Which is sad bc it's a beautiful game but somehow lacks the depth it had in ZD. The dlc had one big saving grace for me and that's Gildun, I'd do anything for that man to get him a looking glass, he was definitely my most anticipated reunion and I'm glad he got some good writing!
HZD for me was above average. Frozen Wilds I considered good as it addressed a lot of the rough parts of HZD. It made me interested in playing HFW. Sadly they aren't going to be able to top Frozen Wilds. I have a bunch of weaves/coils I do not care about. Same goes for the weapons and skill tree. The melee and stealth have not been significantly improved. They still feel bad but have more fluff. It seems they tried for more shallow diversity as opposed to narrower depth and refinement.
@@Thecuriousalicee Hey, I'm so sorry that it took me so long to reply but I find you reply so funny when I think about it. In your story Aloy goes to the FW to save the world but just ends up on some adventures with her friends and plays board games the rest of the time. I love it. I liked the concept of the individual missions with the companions but as most in this game they was still sth missing for me. Like some really, strongly heartfelt moments and also maybe some more unique gameplay, like a more unique way to work together with the Companion. Also sth that I was missing; if you have a base and put together a crew what's everyone's unique contribution. No matter what the story tried to tell me, it was still Aloy doing almost everything and the rest of the characters is kinda "parked" at the Base to "train". I understand why Guerrilla wanted to put a crew together but I don't feel like they really figured out how to let the player feel like they have one gameplay-wise. I fully agree with you on the Gildun quest. That was a wonderful surprise and really heartfelt. One of the best moments in the whole series for me.
@@Taya27 not to mention that now that BG3 is out and dominating, the way players interact with companions is about to change as a whole, I think if they can solve they're weird companion issues from this game and explore more of Aloys identity outside of her only wanting to be Elizabet #2, I think they could have a perfect game on their hands, I'm still pretty excited about it! Now that I've sat away from it for a bit there's a lot of things I love about it and a lot of things I hope they improve on! Thanks for taking the time to get back to me, hopefully I'll be watching your thoughts on any announcements in the future!
when I played the first game a big issue was not knowing what to focus my eyes on, and the HUD only made it even more confusing. Ghost of Tsushima had a similar problem but thankfully to a lesser degree.
The best example of the game taking 2 steps back for me, is in it's cosmetic department. I loved that they finally added outfit dyes and added more face paints but then it gets thrown away by the fact that if you want to change them, you would have to travel (or fast travel) all the way back to the dyer and face painter just to change it again, and for a game released for next gen, they have this outdated system that ruins your immersion and wastes your time, especially since in the first game, you can change the face paint whenever you like
I started playing this right after playing Tears of the Kingdom, so the climbing mechanic in this game became something absolutely annoying, stupid and ultimately irritating to me. The whole traversal feel so clunky it's so unenjoyable to travel the map.
This game oddly reminds me of Crysis. Especially Crysis 2. Sure, Crysis 2 was pretty neat. But it's also dull. It almost feels like a fake game, a tech demo made into a full game. Horizon has amazing graphics. But it feels like an overly long demo.
Yes you have to imagine city and towns as being larger than they are, we dont see them going to the bathroom either , or even in movies and TV but we assume that they are
Youre completely right. It's like every team that was in charge of a certain mechanic completely failed to communicate with each other. Combat has nothing to do with overworld has nothing to do with traversal. Combat also seems to have nothing to do with the weapon upgrade system. I have no idea how they ruined a perfectly fine weapon system with whatever the fuck is going on in this game.
The stagger/knockdown attacks from enemies can be brutal, especially when you have multiple enemies. There are some arena fights I've thrown the towel in on because it has the right combo of machines that it becomes VERY easy to get stun locked. My biggest gripe with the game is the gear upgrade mechanics. It's just so grindy and tedious. I don't mind the idea of needing specific machine parts for upgrades, but it gets awful when you need 3, 4, 5 of specific parts that aren't guaranteed drops, or worse yet, aren't guaranteed drops and you need specific variants of the machine to possibly get them. Need 5 Apex Tremortusk hearts? Welp, this is going to take a whole play session. Or when you I unlock my first piece of high level armor almost immediately after opening the rest of the larger map, and the first or second upgrade level requires a machine part that I'm not going to encounter until I'm a lot deeper into the map. Similarly, while I understand that they wanted to save certain machines appearing until you hit specific story beats, it creates an annoying issue where you're not able to even start collecting parts from specific machines until very late in the game, which makes some of that grinding even more tedious. How nice would it be to pick up a legendary piece of equipment and be able to go, "Oh, I can already upgrade this because I've been fighting this machine this whole game"? Just put all the machines on the map. If you think you're up for it, fight them, if you're not, take the long way around. An issue both games have had so far.... stuff respawns back in too fast (which seem contradictory to my point above as it should make farming parts easier, but it's still annoying). I've found myself getting caught in both games in murder loops where I wipe out a herd of machines, move onto another nearby herd, which is JUST far enough away that the first herd respawned, so I accidentally get caught in an area of the map because I just keep going between herds killing everything. Slow down the respawn, and maybe have the locations be a bit more dynamic instead of having every herd's location clearly shown on the map.
I'm only 9:52 into this so far, and I agree with the 'imaging' thing. There've been a few times, after restarting the game, and get to the New Interlude: The Point of the Lance, the processing orb sometimes doesn't look right at first and the lance sometimes isn't even visible until Aloy pulls it out. (that may or may not be similar to what you were saying there) And in regards to the light movement, I've never really noticed that. Guess I'm too focused on playing, lol.
You are saying the environment is a bit too detailed and so a bit too much. The game for me is overwhelming, also in the visual details. But also in the too many quests, way too many characters and in a lot more. These data points you find also are very dull. Their next game, though I admire them for making this game, should go back to HZD structure.
I uninstalled this because I couldn't shut her up. I tried going back to it half a dozen times because it was beautiful and I felt it deserved a chance after liking the first one. Then I saw a tower and I wanted the lens, before I even started climbing she said something like "I should go up there" and I was done. She told me answers to problems that I hadn't even realised was a problem yet because I just walked into the area but for some reason "go up there" was the last straw. Couldn't even explore in peace. A true waste of a beautiful world.
Fantastic analysis. As someone who also loves this game the way you do, I found this video to tackle some of the more annoying features I havent seen others talking about. That damn campfire animation!! How did they not notice? How did it not bother them? The dark lighting in armor or face paint shops! Why would they decide to make the lighting IN-shop dependent on the lighting OUTSIDE of the shop?? So many silly decisions (or critical oversights) in an otherwise amazing game.
Ack!! And the invisible walls! Good lord, that was so frustrating. Especially when you're on one of the Quen missions - there's an area nearby with a campfire but you can't get TO the campfire easily, because there's dozens of invisible walls.
alot of the complaints you have are things you only start to notice with games you really enjoyed imo. also the glider clip shown is unfair. that deescalated faster than normal due to the game not wanting you to enter a quest area. you can immediately tell when the game starts pulling you down more vertically in that clip.
A better rhythm of combat would have been better, thank you for mentioning this in your video. I also get frustrated when a machine attacks through large barriers or within an enclosed structure. What’s the point of adding structures when machines are able to attack through them… they trick you into thinking you’re safe…
Anthropology! I wish they really made the different tribes look a certain way, i mean if you live for hundreds of years with a group of people, then wouldnt the different races of people be a mix ?! That would have been much more interesting than this mirroring of our world.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on visual clutter. Graphics, as pretty as they are, cannot convey the depth of bright colours from real life and brightness of the colours blind the viewer because of that. Same happens with digital art, where most bright colours "shine". It is part of the reason I heavily dislike fully digital "bright" shades in anime and why new Sailor Moon, for example, sometimes is too shiny and flat looking. My personal problem with HFW is dialogue. Too much modern phrases that are specific to a certain region. Maybe it's not that noticeable for an US citizen, as it is an everyday thing, but for people from other regions HFW dialogue is too modern American English for its own good. They had 700 years, but they have no diversity in dialects and no new languages. Ambient chatter is severely lacking and sometimes the same voice line is used too many times in a short period of time. In short, they need a much better writing team for dialogues and chatter. There is no internal consistencies in how people speak depending on the tribe, especially in ambient chatter. The funny part is the dialogue is much better in at least 2 localizations that I've seen. Much less anachronistic words and phrases, much more consistency. I was actually surprised by the difference in quality. In most cases originals are better, but in this case I actually would recommend trying to play in the native language of the player. It still won't fix the fact that people use the words "cauldron", "hologram", etc., when they shouldn't know them, but at least phrases will flow better. In the first game I felt like an archaeologist, uncovering data from the old world, but in the second one I didn't have that feeling as much.
Very interesting critique. Some valid points, some less so! Killing off Sona's only two children over the two games seemed unnecessarily cruel and really mean spirited. I had to reload a save, losing hours of gameplay, once I realised being nice had denied me one of the best weapons in the game, Regalla's Wrath! My biggest gripe with the game though, was the relentless grind required to upgrade weapons and outfits. The number of Dreadwings and Frostclaws I had to kill to fully upgrade my weapons was frustrating to say the least. Furthermore, I probably had to kill about 200 Tremortusks just to get the ten impact coils I needed to upgrade my preferred weapons! But worst of all, was losing my shield weaver armour from the first game. All they had to do was require us to recharge the batteries over a few early quests. Acquiring it in the first game was a highlight, only to then realise there was no game left to enjoy it was a huge disappointment. Otherwise, I've really enjoyed the series, but have little interest in getting a PS5 just to play the Burning Shores DLC. What were they thinking...!!!
I am about 70 hrs into HFW on the PC. I do really like it but I totally agree with the "no fun here" signs you mention. I loathe the melee combat. It is horrendous with all the knock downs/stun locks you get. Human combat is terrible so I'll never fo the fighting pit stuff. Ditto for the arena as I enjoy the game so much more when being a proper long range high vantage point hunter and arenas are the opposite of that. Why the f*** woukd a dev lock the best sniper bows behind a crapot arena thing? Then there is the "crafting". I thought I'd gotten away from such amazing quests as "get ten badger rectums" when I finally gave up on mmos but no! You want to get the best out of your purple gear then get ready to grind!
This video was hard to watch for someone who really does appreciate and love this game. However you do make some great points and I hope the developers take notes so they can make a masterful third installment of the Horizon franchise
On the topic of the Relic Ruins, totally agree with your comments about the puzzles and how forced they seem. But also like, what are the odds that the only 9 ruins worth exploring are the exact 9 places these guys hid these holograms 1000 years ago? Down the individual room in the individual building, it's like, the only door in the whole place with fully functioning power and locks, everything else is just rotting wood. Too gamified, totally breaks immersion. Could've kept the ruins exactly as they were, but made the 9 collectables unrelated to one another. A comic book, a Rubiks cube, a snowglobe, etc. Could've hidden the balls in more random spots to retain the whole Stemmur changing the sky thing. You also missed my biggest gameplay complaint - Blocked Paths. I'm the kind of player who wants to explore every nook ans cranny. If the main mission is pointing me one way, I'll check everything else first before I go. You put a question mark on the map nearby, I'm definitely checking it out. I've always been that way, but damn, this game beat the curiosity out of me. The amount of times I'd work my way to a question mark in the first part of the game, sometimes arduously, only to find it's something I can't interact with yet. It happened so much in the early game, I genuinely just broke, and started blasting straight toward the main story map marker, full speed on a mount, ignoring everything else. And when I unlocked the igniter, and the vine cutter, and went back to check these "blocked paths", 9 times out of 10 it wasn't a path at all. Most often it'd be an extremely shallow, 1ft deep cave that inexplicably had a wooden crate sealed behind the rock wall I just blew up. So not worth the build up, effort or backtracking. Killed my enthusiasm for exploring, which is not good for an open world, then gave almost no incentive to go back afterwards because what was inside was probably useless. Like you said with the graphics - there was just so much meaningless clutter on the map, I actually would've preferred less stuff but more meaningful stuff.
Good analysis here. one point I wanted to add is that I didn’t like how the companions are so passive at the base. Also the men are so beta, everyone waits on Aloy, apart from a romance we don’t see…
I totally agree with the idea that the game suffers from a lack of readability. I had the same problem with Zero Dawn and it really took me out of the game. Good example is that when preparing for the final fight, I had no idea where or WHAT the “spire” even was.
When the game first dropped, I absolutely despised it, and that’s coming from an extremely diehard zero dawn fan. It felt like none of my learned skills from the first game translated to this one at all, so much so I was struggling on my normal difficulty first play through after ultra harding zero dawn. I literally didn’t want to leave the settlements because I knew I’d get my ass kicked, I felt like I wasn’t taught how to use these new and modified mechanics and weapons and it took some serious learning time just to bare the combat. After some patches and updates it’s gotten better, and after many hours I’ve come to adore the combat and I’ve finally gotten through an ultra hard run. But I agree with nearly all your points, ESPECIALLY the “no fun allowed” sign lol. Even at higher skill levels stealth and traps seemed all but useless. Will always love the game, but it’s far from perfect
I love both Horizon games but they could be more immersive. - Stealth would be improved if Aloy could carry, throw or and hide bodies like in AC Odyssey or Red Dead 2. - Swing her spear or at least do a poking thrusting motion underwater, like in AC Odyssey. - Use her rope as a lasso like in Red Dead 2. - Hassle villagers like in AC Odyssey or Red Dead 2, then get a bounty and maybe pay off the bounty later on. - I wish the final battle with Tilda occurred in different set pieces, like how Kratos and Atreus battled Baldur, they were thrown in so many place. The Tilda fight was boring. It would have been better if her friends were there with her actually contributing to the fight. - There should be an option to shut her up and not solve the puzzle as we are actively trying to solve the puzzle. - It would have been nice if she could use the Shieldwing as a shield to and not just a glider.
The parry mechanic can be tricky, cause it wouldn't make sense for aloy to be able to parry a thunderjaw attack, but it would for human enemies, also a lot of machines special attacks wouldt make sense to be parriable, they would have to make a fairly complex parrying system for it to translate and feel right, so i see why they didnt. A way they could do it, is have the shield only be able to block energy or elemental based attacks, while being unable to stop physical attacks, but in the heat of battle, that would be hard to execute w/o it looking clunky or janky. One thing I you said that i wanna emphasize is how much time aloy spends incapacited after an attack, its soooo frustrating, It was specially bad when traversing the world, in HZD i found myself doging forwards non stop to get somehwere faster, and it was very seamless and quick in HZD, but in FW, the roll animation seems to suffer from the same problem as in combat, she just takes too long to complete the animations, and the following button press, seems to not be as reliable, you have to press it multiple times for it to register simply because the time window for the command is always unclear.
35:12 yeah I usually just jump, hold r1, press r2, land, release r1 and repeat It feels like the melee combat has a steep curve and really reminds me about platinum games, specially Bayonetta where it takes a LOOOOOONG time to be comfortable with it and even hope to do things right. Also human enemies attacks way too hard
First game was better in almost every way. From graphics and physics to the story. I'm actually unable to finish FW. ZD I restarted as soon as I finished first playthrough. Sure, different woke level in those 2 games does play a role but mainly it's unpolished feeling and weaker story.
Everything else can be ignored......this games biggest flaw is the trash horrible story. And just when you think the story is bad the dlc gets released with an even worse story. Forbidden West did more harm than good for the horizon franchise.
Maybe put the visual critiques to near the end with the story, since they really feel quite minor and nitpicky compared to the much more obvious gameplay problems
It depends can you be more Specific about it the gameplay? Combat machine , melee combat ? I found genuine videos they explain very well and go in depth so can learn much more. Zero dawn melee combat is simple and generic but forbidden west removes that generic and completely transformed so unique and still room for improvement, and the combat for the machines was already amazing and unique in zero dawn and now even better more layers
If you want EVEN MORE of my thoughts you can find them on patreon where any tier unlocks a written post mortem a few days after a video upload. www.patreon.com/AdamSrayi
AAA gaming is hard, the more realistic the environments get the more believable the player expects the game to be, so we are looking at the cubed law rule to make these games, you'd need massive staff to deliver within a reasonable time frame. And that would be ok but are you willing to spend $1000 on one game? Games are creative artforms that a cubed law would proportionally take away from. The AAA critique is what is killing it. AAA needs to be simplified to be better, it may have to go more indie in style.
I pretty much agree with you on everything except the combat!
You are not supposed to play aggressively! You are supposed to play tactically, systematically disabling enemies!
Also, apparently, the devs originally intended for you to have a shield but removed it since it would "overcomplicate controls".
That isn't what the cube law is related to...
the reason why Zero Dawn had a big city (Meridian) while the Forbidden West had small cities, is that the carja are more advanced and civilised than the tenakth whom are more like tribal and almost nomadic, and were always at war with each other until recently when Hekarro united them.
Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with a number of your points...
Stealth for one - 'You don't have the ability to manipulate enemy patterns'.You have rocks to throw as distractions, a full invisibility skill to infiltrate undetected and disrupt, outfits and mods that are quieter than others for sneaking to draw attention without full detection, and even shooting arrows from a distance can draw attention. You can use your focus to highlight routine patterns to see where they've been broken.
Ability to set traps is limited - ultimately, yes of course it's not UNLIMITED, that would be ridiculous - but if your play style is stealth, there are upgrades, gear, outfits, skills and modifications specifically for trappers... Everything from multiple types of anti-air traps, explosives, different types of trip wires, stagger beams, canister harpoons and floating mines!
As for getting human enemies and machines to fight either other? You have the Beserk arrow type to confuse and enrage any enemy to attack those in the vicinity (including machines) AND the Targeting arrow type to even direct overidden machines (hacked to be on your side either aggressively or passively) toward any enemy you want... Aim it at a human, and you have both fighting each other.
While I agree on some aspects, there are many other oversights and I feel like there's not been enough time and creative experimentation with the systems to make some of these claims.
Well you disagreed with only 2 out of the 20+ things mentioned in this video lol. Decent counter points, but I’m hoping the developers improve everything mentioned in this video.
I was so exited when Aloy got a shield, only to realise it later you can't use it as a shield
what do you need a shield for in this game? that would ruin the gameplay. She rolls. and quite effectively. her "shield" is the environment.
@@mickael486 it would mainly be for fighting other humans. Rolling around is very awkward and a shield would be much more fun and effective to fight them.
But yes, against the machines the shield wouldn't make sense. And the combat against machines is great as it is
@@allandm so the shield would basically only work for arrows... that's fair. but definitely not a deal breaker if there isn't one. Fighting humans (in camps) is still pretty great and requires some smart stealth mechanics that I'd be afraid would not be necessary if the game had a shield.
@@mickael486 fair enough, it comes down to preference at the end of the day. I don't really enjoy human fights in horizon, and if they gave her a parry/ a lock on and block it would feel better to me personally. Something like Kena bridge of spirits (the buttons are surprisingly similar to horizon)
@@allandm try stealth more. experiment with weaves on the right gear and you're almost invisible.
This is the best review I've found on this game. Even if it's late to publish the video, because every aspect you mentioned is correct.
I started HFW last weekend and it doesn't reach the same level of playability as HZD. My biggest gripe is the new controls - i hate key-combos for attacks. Plus, I often accidentally trigger the dodge mechanic when trying to manouvre around an obstruction, causing me to roll off a cliff or into a mob. I much prefer fewer skills and more reliable controls.
The 4-5 part puzzles in the game, also mentioned in this video, are a chore instead of a rewarding experience. The reward is often in a place I feel you should be able to get to without going through all the steps. Rewards are often visible though holes in the wall, but you cannot crawl through the hole. Even though size indicates it should be easily possible. This make the puzzle feel something that's completely unnecesary but you're forced to work through.
I had hoped they improved on the climbing mechanic for this sequel, allowing the freedom to climb everything anywhere. Unfortunately, it's still a case of hopping from one predetermined spot to another. For me, this is the most immersion breaking part of the game.
Same bro same
For me, the biggest frustration with the combat by far is the fact all the machines, from the burrower to the tide ripper, are equally nimble. They all move on a dime, it's nearly impossible to circle around the bigger machines, they just sorta slide around in place to prevent you from being able to get behind them to hit weak points. You effectively have to use the same strategy on every machine in order to defeat them. The first game had the same problem, but it's exacerbated in this one. It's pretty ridiculous that a large, limbering, aquatic machine can be so nimble on land in only that specific respect.
That's a great point
I agree with this. I range snipe everything…. when this goes wrong all hell breaks loose and I have a mini nightmare on my hands 😅
Agreed plus alloy takes so much time to get up. Yet a 60 ft machine is like a ballet dancer. The way they target u is like dark souls you dodge and the projectiles will float and target u behind rocks, hit u through walls and then move so fast u cant counter a dodged attack that you should be able to hit.
Its horrible tbh one big part of the game i hate. Ima melee fighter first thats how i play most games unless they offer good magic like a dragons aga game.
I barley use magic in souls because it sucks and isnt fun.
Just wish the machines didnt spend target 360 degress with an attack in order to hit u. So unrealistic.
If you want to hold a machine in place, you can use the adhesive arrows or bombs to gum them up, ropecaster to tie them down, or a smoke bomb to disorientate them. Wholly agree it is pretty tricky to circle strafe, though there are tools to make things easier.
I tested this on every machine. I moved my left analog stick back and forth vigorously and they robots did the same. It’s horrible. Even in concentration mode they live incredibly fast. Or move as you release. Which I tested that to. So I had to trick the AI and aim at a different point that I didn’t want to shoot and then quickly shoot what I really wanted.
Horrid
Your comments on the ruins is 100%. I stopped doing them cause i didnt give a fuck about spending 10 mins for a puzzle just to find a fucking ornament that changes vegas lights. Fuck that.
👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻
Bit late reaction from me but stumbled on the video and this comment but the ancestor return (rewarded from completing them all) is great and worth the hustle if u r just there for the story then dont bother with them
Something I wished you talked about during the combat section was the arena challenges. As it is right now, the arena is fine, but the knocked down mechanic is really apparent here. Aloy takes so long to get back up after falling down, and the amount of machines in the arena means there will almost always be one to knock you down straight after. This is all made worse by the fact that, in order to get the top reward, you need to beat them within a certain timeframe, and when half of that time is spent recovering from falls you (most likely) dodged, it feels a little unfair.
The arena also highlights just how much could have been done with the combat, in terms of contextual attacks. The time you spend getting to higher ground could be worth it if you could jump off walls onto enemies or use the glider more reliably.
It’s a really cool concept that - once I’d heard about it - devoted time figuring out how to unlock, but once I did the first challenge and realised exactly how unpolished the combat was in this setting, I never came back to.
This is sad because, just like you, I really enjoyed the game. What you said about how we should criticise the things we enjoy just as much as the things we like is so well put. Your video highlights issues you have in a clear and concise way without entirely shitting on a game that (in my opinion) was totally worth my time. Thanks for making it, you’ve got some real talent!
The arena was definitely another pain point, and could have been so fun
I, for one, don't do the arena fights. Nor the hunting grounds, for that matter.
However, I do agree with Aloy getting knocked down.
It takes a little too much time for her to get back up, and in that time, especially if you're low on health, the next attack could easily kill you.
I mean, I get that she's older, but not That much older.
Though with the way her character design is in this one, she looks significantly older than 6 months later.
In my opinion, anyway.
10:36 feels a bit too nitpicky, they probably made it more silent so that it doesn’t blast your eardrums in contrast to other stuff.
But I do wish that the water ripples, sand/snow deformation was made by machines, just look at the slitherfang, it leaves no traces in the sand
Great video. Especially the part about the visual clutter and "towns" being hard to navigate because of the lack of distinct things to focus on.
I hope the developers watch this.
@@nehemiahpouncey3607my guy...you are not very smart.
They have confirmed horizon 3. Not just that, but it's an incredibly small minority mad that she's gay. Why does it matter if she's gay, straight or bi? Lol she's a fictional character.
Y'all really get triggered so easily, it's sad
They don’t care they don’t work for us😢
They just take our money because we will buy it anyway even if it’s crap
@@PeachShortcake_ I am a gay woman and didn't even know Aloy would have feelings for a woman in the DLC. It is so rare to see this in games. I fully enjoyed it, and them going on a couple of quests together too. Magic.
@@SladeLit is not rarely it’s nearly in every game and every show these days. And forget if you have children how they see this. Forcing sexuality upon gamers instead of just letting it be a video game has become the norm. I play games to play games. Not to see a characters sexual preference.
@@MeggaMann_theBlueLion but when the characters are heterosexual, you don't say this. It shows your homophobia.
The first take about visuals is so based! As a professional 3D artist I couldn't agree more, HFW suffers from the same problems the Transformers series does. Visual fidelity is so high human eye cannot possibly take anything valuable from it, and it gets worse because of the lightning.
I do believe lighting plays a huge role here. Yes, it features better GI, but lacks contrast and darkening in cavities, so it makes overdetailed image even worse - by making all parts of the object evenly lit without telling more about its shape. So, in the end, I prefer HZD image more since it actually features better contrast and makes the image more readable by simply having fewer details - thus more interesting to look at.
Why cannot artists take a step back with the visuals and stop making the same mistakes transformers did?
Corporate overloads and marketing department which sells games on graphics, you remember for sure “16x the details”.
I fully agree that too much details create a noise and make the image less readable.
Which will for some players cause to press the focus buttons every few seconds not to miss things. Especially that resources are very important.
I would be so curious to see what would happen if a studio like this put this much time and resources into creating a shorter game set in a much, much smaller area that is full developed and polished. I think that could really be something special
Omg 100%, I'd rather have the game be smaller but better.
0:00 - Intro
1:32 - The Visuals
16:30 - The Gameplay
37:27 - The Story
It hurt that you talk bad things about this game. BUT! To be fair it is true and you make a really really good point. Something is missing in this game.
Thank you for the time stamps! They are perfectly placed
W man been looking for this
@@AdamSrayiHZD/HFW combat irritates me in such a specific way.
The boss designs are great and really inspired from both a visual and gameplay standpoint....
But Alloys restricted basic movement and melee attacks, and her stop-&-start combat flow with the bow stops me fully enjoying the enemy encounter
It's like having a room full of gold, but only allowed to look at it through a key hole (bosses being gold & Alloy herself being therestricting key hole)
Agreed lol. I love this game and the overall series so much. I'm glad there are creators out there with differing critiques as well as praise for it.
Around the 20 minute mark, talking about the invisible barriers was so accurate, I'm glad someone brought it up. Let me traverse buildings, trees and have alternate paths to relic ruins 😫
This was a really interesting critique! Watched some other videos and no one else could really pinpoint why the creature designs felt off, but your point about the Tallnecks having a combination of machine elements and animal parts put the whole thing together in my head! Great video.
Thank you! Im glad I could put words to your feelings
you make several great points and i hope GG takes notes for the next installment.
just a tiny nitpick, 25:00 the game drags you down there specifically to prevent you from entering a story location. i haven't personally experienced that drastic of a drag-down while gliding anywhere else in the game
Very good Analyse. The games development surely had a bigger, higher, faster approach and while it had a view highlights like vegas i was ultimately dissappointed. Especially regarding the story which was just aweful and lazy written.
I have soooo much beef with the story, character writing, character development and even dialogue I could cry. Especially given how well the first game was written and how much potential many of the ideas had. I really don't understand what happened with the writing team.
@@Taya27 Indeed. HZD's story was original, intriguing, exciting. HFW's story is schematic, the hyper-super-intelligent swirling blob of red that destroys everything is just uncreative and unbelievable. I wish the story would be more inspired since this franchise is so groundbreaking and awesome.
8:30 These inconsistencies in lighting are actually due to the fact they made a lot of artificial lights. I mean all characters and their faces have some weird backlight from nowhere. I can understand this for static images to make it more visually interesting. But in motion, it rather feels weird, ESPECIALLY outside of the cutscenes. I would rather like to have just the sun as a single light source in a scene. Especially considering their engine got better with GI (Or maybe it's not and this is the reason they just cranked up the ambient light?).
Once again fantastic commentary Adam!! Can’t get enough of these amazing videos
oh man your videos are so great . give this man more subscribers and views. one of my fav channels
Its super picky of me, but Aloy accutaly says the shield is to damaged after the fight to be used effectivly as a shield when she takes it off the dead guy
Exactly, although you have to wonder how she never found an intact shield after fighting so many rebels through the course of the rest of the game.
My absolute biggest annoyance is the second you attack one of the machines, the rest of them almost always gang up on you even if you've separated them a good distance apart. Not to mention their barrage of AOE attacks that keep coming at you from a mile away leads to some veeeery annoying battles. This literally happens 99% of the time. Of course I am playing on hardest difficulty so usually just 2 hits and I'm bye bye. Not fun.
Getting ganged up on is fine, the barrage of ranged attacks gets iffy. What really makes it annoying is the tracking on these attacks. A Shockwave should not curve to hit you. I often get killed because something curved to hit me or clipped through geometry.
The puzzle ridden Ruins of HFW are superfluous and the only rewarding thing about them is weapon you get for completing all of them
On the story: sci fi is interesting as a platform to introduce new ideas, new concepts, new technology with new applications and new implications. All this with the emphesis on NEW.
The first story did a great job and made the story interesting. The second story made it a back drop. The introduction of the zeniths could have been a great stage of colliding civilisations with the introduction of new technology infusing with the existing ones we already had.
It's hard to explore this world after the main mission. It's all in all pretty but shallow.
Exactly
His critique on the graphics, vegetation and biomes are on point. I find it hard to focus on the things that matter when there is too much to look at. SC2 allows you to lower many graphic settings that allow you to focus on the gameplay more.
the knockdown animations are so frustrating in combat. They look good and more realistic but the pacing of combat suffers a lot. I find myself screaming at Aloy to get the F up already so i can get back control already and dodge an attack i see coming a mile away. I dont recall having this issue in zero dawn.
The spear combat is a complete miss imo. I dont find it any good fighting big machines, it makes me having to be so close to a machine and exposed to its attacks, when i can just take some distance instead and fire more powerful ranged attacks. Ultimately The added value of more spear combos doesnt make it less useless than HZD, compared to ranged attacks.
Also there are so many materials to collect i dont even bother to get familiar with them. In HZD yellow flowers were for fire damage potions, blue for freeze damage etc. Now i just list it as a job and go collect whatever the side list tells me like im in a fkin supermarket.
And last of all are the weapons. Why the hell do we need so many variations to the same weapon type? I get it that there are more elements like plasma and water etc, but why do i need to carry 2 to 4 bows in the weapons wheel (1 for fire and acid, 1 for freeze and water, 1 hunter, 1 sharpshot) just so i have enough elemental counter ready in combat. This just makes me keep changing almost my entire weapon wheel depending on the machine im about to fight. "I need this weapons for that part, this weapon for that part" Makes to preperation for a battle like studying for a test.
I played and beat this game and couldn't help but feel like it was slightly disappointing the entire time but could never figure out why. You summed it up perfectly for me
While I respect the effort put into the in-depth critique of Horizon Forbidden West, it feels more like nitpicking than a holistic assessment. If applied to 99% of the games, you might find similar issues. But, considering the game's cross-gen development, initial focus on PS4, and the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, it's reasonable to acknowledge that not every detail can be perfect. Games are complex projects, and they don't always strive for absolute realism. It might be beneficial to keep in mind the broader development context and the practical constraints faced by the team.
Opinions are complex, and they don't always strive for absolute internal consistency or positivity. It might be beneficial to keep in mind that other people can have multifaceted opinions, or even criticisms, about a work of fiction you enjoyed.
36:27 you can throw rocks, launch bombs, environmental traps, smoke bombs and the berserk arrows
you can press O to reset the shildwing so u dont need to do these 2-3 steps
Great video, there are some fair and valid points.The visual aspect you mentioned is more noticeable when playing in performance mode with the checkerboarded dynamic res it's using so details can be lost, the quality mode is a lot cleaner in that regard. But even with all these nitpicking flaws the game might have it still doesn't really bother or hurt my overall experience I have with the game. They are fair and valid points for sure, but that can surely be improved with the third game. I still adore this game either way and have it as one of my favorite open world games ever.
A shield is something I do want to see in the third game though, a parry mechanic would be very useful.
Thank you! I have optimism for the third game. Especially since they won't be burdened by cross gen development. It could really be excellent
I don't play video games, but this looks nice.
If you ever wanted to give them a try, the Horizon series would be a beautiful place to start!
You make dozens upon dozens of valid and eye opening criticisms, but the game still was just awesome af to play, no? The two biggest ones to harp on - aloy getting stunlocked and the combat vs humans. holy shit the fight vs the enduring is like the perfect culmination of all those frustrations. And then there is the arena challenges chasing the best time possible, oh my those were something. especially with the developer provided loadouts.
two more things I wish you mentioned were the game wants you to use all these different weapons and techniques vs machines and to hit specific parts but then it becomes extremely difficult to use said weapons and hit those parts in practice. Giant machines will have 15 spots to shoot and you have so many options but it's next to impossible to even see any of them or get a clear shot cus you have to get too close and risk getting stomped and stunlocked. so each of those fights in the end game turns into use level 3 power and spam your hardest hitting weapon killing all the variation.
the second thing is I remember the minigame races being absolute TORTURE. awful gameplay mechanics. really don't like when these games just shove in stuff from other games to give more things for the player to do. goes for the chess game as well.
but to bring some more positivity back, the end of the 3rd act and flying the machine in the story was instantly one of my favorite things I've ever done in a game. The franchise as a whole can introduce so many things to make it better, but damn I still give this game a 10/10. Really enjoyed my 95 hour 100% playthrough. The positives just heavily outweigh the negatives even though you really could nitpick the game to death.
great video, i felt a little stupid to "hate" so much about that game after loving zero dawn so much
This is actually a really good critique of the game I'm really happy it's a actual critique and not like one of those other videos where all they do is complain
I'm so glad you put into words some of my biggest gripes with the game. I feel like you, I like it, I had fun with it, but so many things frustrated me and didn't sit right. And often I couldn't really say why. I also thought all the details are stunning and impressive, but as a whole I didn't find it visually intriguing. And I also often can't play for more than an hour because all the visual noise is very exhausting for me to look at. So I completely agree with you here. The same goes for the design of the different settlements. Overall Plainsong is very cool to look at from a distance and a great idea, but when I'm in there orientation is hard and and don't know where to look first. I'm visually overwhelmed.
I also very much agree with you on Aloy's agility (or lack thereof). A friend of mine said the same a while back; combat feels more stunted, less fluid than in the fist game. It feels like they wanted to make it more realistic, maybe, but when you sacrifice speed in a game that's focused on action heavy, fast combat it's just frustrating. I'm replaying ZD atm and can't believe how much fun I'm having with the combat. Yeah, there are a few tools from FW that I'd like to have but overall the rhythm of the combat is just really good. Also visually ZD is still stunning but more limited than FW, less noise. It's easier for me to focus on the landscape and enjoy the environment.
I also had the feeling that all the ideas they tried to implement here don't really work together. I like the comparison to a theme park but wouldn't only keep it to the transition of the biomes (that doesn't bother me much) but also look at the different activities in this context. It really feels like there were different teams developing these different ideas pretty much in isolation and when sth was done it was just placed somewhere on the map. What I don't understand is why ZD doesn't feel like this at all to me though both games are very similar. All in all ZD feels much more polished to me and like everything was placed in the world with much more careful planning and intention. They were probably more limited in ZD when it comes to budget and resources thus they had to prioritize certain aspects over others and I think you can see this in certain areas (like human combat or the water etc), but that's absolutely fine bc, imo, they found the right priorities. You can not make everything great. Some things just have to be solid enough. It feels to me like in FW they made the same mistake that many sequels do, especially movie sequels, thinking "more is more". Instead of focusing on a few core ideas in areas of graphic design, gameplay and story they wanted to do all the things. But that makes it impossible to have an eye on everything, to make sure, everything connects well and have proper quality control. And I think it shows in almost every aspect.
Oh sorry, I thought I was done but then I remembered what you said by the end about how the story unfolded and I felt the same disappointment. When I think what they could've done gameplay-wise when it comes to the problems 'caused by the subfunctions. I thought these would impede your progress very strongly and that you had to battle with them in some way to maybe unlock new parts of the map or to get to specific important equipment. I thought solving some of the environmental problems could unlock more side quests. I thought you would have to talk to the subfunctions, maybe even make a deal with them or sth to get them to come with you. There were a million ways to use these ideas to make the story and gameplay and even development of the map super unique and interesting. And you even could've left out the Zenith part completely, save it for the last game. Then you would've also had more room for the business of the tribes of the West. Wow, I really have to stop myself here. Could go on and on but this is your show. You said you had some very subjective opinions on the story. I'd love to hear those. Maybe you'll make another video about that at some point? I would also just read a blog entry or your google docs XDDD
Thanks again for making this. It was a bit cathartic to me.
I'm glad you liked the video. You have some good ideas about what they could have done with the subfunctions. Could have been so much more interesting
Incredible work brother, get ready for an uptick in your watchtime coz I'm about to go through a bunch of your videos. Keep it up!
loved your detailed take on this. there are some things I'd add but i do agree pretty much all of the things you mentioned.
earned my sub ;)
This was an amazing analysis! Thanks for being brutally honest!😂 This helped me a lot on whether or not I get this game. Too bad more game developers don't do things like the developers of Mario Wonder did and have no actual 'due date' and to just have fun making it. Amazing work on this video!
Game development doesnt work like that im sorry
Having spent 100’s of hours climbing pointless hills on BOTW and TOTK, I personally find defined climbing routes one of the best features about this game. I can’t get my head around the common opinion that this is in some way a bad thing.
Because there are no climbing routes. You have to rely on the scanner thing or try it out to see if you can climb something. This guessing game kills the flow and immersion. Then you have this ugly yellow markers until you're done.
Either everything is climbable, or nothing should be.
You can't have a rock surface you can climb and then the same rock surface somewhere else is not climbable, at that point put clear markers like in the first game (the white ones).
@@Bob69303 far less time is spent pushing a button than climbing a pointless mountain in hope of a korok seed only to find nothing. Perhaps you haven’t tried to max these out on TOTK? + I fail to see what’s ugly about the lines, but that’s just my opinion and I don’t understand yours.
@@79bull the problem with your argument is that climbing is a mean to an end. The fact that in Zelda you might find nothing on top of a mountain, has nothing to do with Horizon, and has nothing to do with the climbing system either.
In Zelda there are clear rules for climbing, in HFW there aren't.
What you're implying is "if there are no climbable surfaces it means there's nothing to find, I don't have to waste time", but this is false. The video itself shows why, but time and time again I found myself in an area during exploration, then wanted to reach another location, and had to take a detour, because the rock surface in front of me wasn't climbable, for arbitrary reasons.
Usually, when this happened I tried to jump my way through, like a mountain goat, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Even then, in a pretty game like Horizon, why can't I just climb to enjoy the view?
The yellow markers are weird because they are in complete contrast with the realistic style of the world, especially considering that the predecessor solved this issue with yellow-ish metal objects and white rock edges.
They could make a neon pink robot, and maybe you'd like it, it doesn't mean it'd fit into the world.
@@Bob69303 I’m sorry, not interested in debate. Because the only ‘problem’ with my opinion is it doesn’t align with yours. I have my opinion and you have yours. This is where it ends.
Since I accidentally nuked my original reply breaking down exactly why linear or near-linear traversal harms an open world, I'll boil my points down thusly:
1. Linear open-world design is antithetical to the genre itself. A genre which, by design, aims to give the player as much freedom as possible. Therefore, actively punishing the player for attempting to express their freedom is self-contradictory in practice.
2. Linear traversal design puts artificial limits on what the gameplay designers can do. If climbing only serves one specific function in one specific way, there's no room for mechanical diversity or player experimentation, which coincides with my first point. Nor is there a possibility for additional functionality or purpose beyond simply gaining vertical placement.
3. Forbidden West's almost automatic climbing removes the fear of failure and thus all tension. Without the imminent danger of gravity pulling you to the ground, climbing lacks subtance entirely.
4. While I understand the linearity, extending to the various half-baked traversal systems, of Forbidden West's open world serves its unchanging narrative, it highlights two prominent issues, one of which I addressed in my first point: The world serving the narrative, instead of the complete opposite, contradicts the freedom-centric philosophies inherent within its chosen genre, and the game's scope has caused a bit of a bloat-related issue, in that there are one too many half-baked, underdeveloped systems, mechanics, and concepts. Most of which never reach their full potential, outside of the bow.
Continuing on from my fourth point, this, as in subpar execution in various regards, I'm fine with. Not every game needs an amalgamation of perfect systems, all working harmoniously together. If they all served something grander, a central focus of Forbidden West, and a tighter focus at that, one which elevated the experience from average to extraordinarily, there would be no issue. However, with Guerrilla's main priority clearly being Forbidden West's story, they failed. In lacking a compelling narrative with interesting characters, there's absolutely nothing to distract the player from Forbidden West's other glaring issues - they only pile on top of each other until there's a mountain of untapped potential too tall to ignore. Me, personally, when I look at this mountain, or any mountain in Forbidden West for that matter, I can't help but think games like Breath of the Wild, or Tears of The Kingdom, or Ghost of Tsushima, or Death Stranding, etc, etc, all serve as a window into the type of open world Forbidden West could have been. A potential beyond just being Zero Dawn again but bigger, which I hoped Guerrilla would strive for. However, it looks like the studio hasn't yet learned from their mistakes harkening back to the Killzone trilogy. Except, this time, it's not the lore being left untapped and neglected
I’ve always wanted a first person mode in horizon.
I too hate this tendency of meticulously curated experiences in big budget games
Great video, honestly after enjoying the first one immensely I really had to send something was off about the second game and I never finished it.
About 6 hours into the 1st game I started playing in 2017 and I play a bit every year. Thinking I might be wrong about the game but to this day 2024 I can’t get into it.
You and me both...
You sir have an underrated channels and this video made me realize why I love the first game more. In my opinion Zero Dawn had more focus, more satisfying progression, and a much better narrative. Finding out who Aloy is, what happened to the world before, and seeing her prove herself is more interesting. Whereas in Forbidden West there were tons of complex narrative elements they tried to make work but didn’t. Zero Dawn’s world felt like it had a lot without feeling too big, and Forbidden West went really big at the expense of feeling bloated by the end. Something I felt the first game didn’t have. The world and environment felt natural in Zero Dawn and in Forbidden West it felt disjointed like you said. And as much as I like the new gameplay and combat additions I feel like fights in this game got too messy. I do think it’s a good game but they fumbled a bit on this one. Again, coming from someone who loved the first and considered it a 10/10 title.
The amount of stupid plot hole’s introduced with the rushed trash that is “nemesis” completely ruins this games narrative. And the reliance on a rogue Hephaestus to save the world is so dumb bcuz it couldve just slipped straight back into the cauldrons without helping them at all and why beta needed to “input” Hephaestus, by itself, into the printer in the first place was dumb as hell, hephaestus had already been tamed by gaia so theres no reason why beta couldnt have just connected a gaia controlled Hephaestus into the same printer and accomplished the same task. The zero communication and secretive final plan to take out the specters was beyond stupid, there was no reason for aloy to keep her plan to SAVE THE WORLD a secret from the people that were trying to help her save it just bcuz “this is between sisters”. Having tilda kill gerard was the most unsatisfying and stupid thing they couldve done with him although they did make the zeniths extremely boring and one dimensional villains so what does it really matter. This game shouldve ended with the far zeniths being defeated(NO NEMESIS) and that shouldve been the end of the story and series instead they decided to milk it into a third installment and give us faro plague 2.0 zenith edition unbelievably horrible writing and completely disrespectful to the greatness that was the first game and forbidden west up until this shit show of an ending
Amazing critique, subscribed
Awesome video. I noticed a lot of the things you mentioned, but couldn’t quite articulate what was wrong exactly. I hope these things are improved in the next game.
Gameplay is really boring now, especially the looting and upgrading, and as mentioned in the video many other things puts me off. I especially agree with using maybe explosive arrows to blow up crumbled walls to get where you need to. The mechanic where you need a spear to activate some crystals to blow the wall or you need a hook to get to that location, or you need a rebreather to reach another location, it just takes me out of the game. It feels like i need a red, yellow and blue key cards and i am just opening locked doors. No creativity at all.
The story feels like playing sims 3, i skip everything now, i am 0% interested. In Witcher 3, the side characters often take a role in the main quest. Like Yennefer using black magic to revive someone and find more info. It actually feels sometimes that you are the side character in Witcher 3. There doesn't seem to be anything interesting like that in Forbidden West, except for the only 1 time at the beginning with Hades. Instead of using Hades in interesting ways we just got rid of him. In Elden Ring the story is heavily affecting the ending, and the game is trying to influence you to make some interesting decisions. Like the Manor, hunt your fellow tarnished to get to Rykard. or choose the 3 fingers. In Forbidden West, why not use the Zenith for example, like we have Gaia and they want Gaia, give them a copy of Gaia, they leave the planet and maybe they give us something in return. or fight them and take their tech yourself.
This game is really bad for me, it's like a 6/10.
Yea, horizon is a weird game for me, it seems like a game i should absolutely be in love with, but im just meh towards it.
Same, it has so much from the first game that i just love, but it wasnt untill i watched this video that i really could put into words way it never grabbed me like that first one did, to the point that i gust got bord and moved on before finishing it. honestly looking back i wish i could return it. its not as bad as many other AAA games can get, but these issues make me gust want to play a better game, like zelda.
Its insane you dont have more followers. The quality of the vid is top notch ! the only thing i would possibly add to the growth of the channel is to talk faster. But thats my own opinion
Well written critique. 👏👏
When I got the shield I was so happy, as I thought I could start playing as a sword and board playstyle from then on. After the realization that the shield is only a glider my heart sank, and the game only went downhill from there. It's a technically impressive game, with very good art and sound design...But the gameplay and the story are so...bland...I was disappointed after I finished it.
Not being able to climb trees was a weird gripe. Or the glider not deploying instantly.
What a geat review!! Absolutely agree with all point 100%
I've been screaming about the damn shield since it released. Do what God of War did. The shield was one of my favorite things in that game. Even Spider-Man 2 has a parry now. It's baffling how they didn't implement it in Horizon.
whats the most crazy to me about the development of this game is most of your critiques they had already done in the first game! The blending of the different biomes, the strong designs of the towns and Meridian, making use of mounts, really cool, well developed, relatable side characters that are all gay for Aloy which i Loved(and felt like they rushed and ruined in the new dlc), the whole game truly feels like a backslide from the (in my opinion) perfect first game. its like they got so focused on making the bigger, prettier, crazier game and completely lost the plot of what made the first game so iconic on its own. I've got a lot of big feelings about this game 😅 I want to love it but I can't. The best piece from this series is Frozen Wilds.
I wholeheartedly agree with all your points. For me, Frozen Wilds is so far the peak of the series as well and I also couldn't really get into the romance between Seyka and Aloy in Burning Shores though that relationship was intentionally romantic while most interactions in ZD are completely free to interpretation. But I really have the feeling that Aloy has much more chemistry with even the side characters in ZD than even with some of the most important protagonists in FW. Though, the reason for that could also be that she is a mostly awful person in FW who lacking almost all of her patience, compassion, understanding, wonder and playfulness that she had in ZD. But that's just how I feel.
@@Taya27 I find that when I replay the game I really enjoy kotallo and Zo's quests the most, bc it dives into the cultures and explores the nuances between the characters, their tribes, and Aloys understanding of the world. And once I'm done with those 2 quest lines, I play the machine strike boards and then I'm kinda over it... Which is sad bc it's a beautiful game but somehow lacks the depth it had in ZD. The dlc had one big saving grace for me and that's Gildun, I'd do anything for that man to get him a looking glass, he was definitely my most anticipated reunion and I'm glad he got some good writing!
HZD for me was above average. Frozen Wilds I considered good as it addressed a lot of the rough parts of HZD. It made me interested in playing HFW. Sadly they aren't going to be able to top Frozen Wilds. I have a bunch of weaves/coils I do not care about. Same goes for the weapons and skill tree. The melee and stealth have not been significantly improved. They still feel bad but have more fluff. It seems they tried for more shallow diversity as opposed to narrower depth and refinement.
@@Thecuriousalicee Hey, I'm so sorry that it took me so long to reply but I find you reply so funny when I think about it. In your story Aloy goes to the FW to save the world but just ends up on some adventures with her friends and plays board games the rest of the time. I love it. I liked the concept of the individual missions with the companions but as most in this game they was still sth missing for me. Like some really, strongly heartfelt moments and also maybe some more unique gameplay, like a more unique way to work together with the Companion. Also sth that I was missing; if you have a base and put together a crew what's everyone's unique contribution. No matter what the story tried to tell me, it was still Aloy doing almost everything and the rest of the characters is kinda "parked" at the Base to "train". I understand why Guerrilla wanted to put a crew together but I don't feel like they really figured out how to let the player feel like they have one gameplay-wise.
I fully agree with you on the Gildun quest. That was a wonderful surprise and really heartfelt. One of the best moments in the whole series for me.
@@Taya27 not to mention that now that BG3 is out and dominating, the way players interact with companions is about to change as a whole, I think if they can solve they're weird companion issues from this game and explore more of Aloys identity outside of her only wanting to be Elizabet #2, I think they could have a perfect game on their hands, I'm still pretty excited about it! Now that I've sat away from it for a bit there's a lot of things I love about it and a lot of things I hope they improve on! Thanks for taking the time to get back to me, hopefully I'll be watching your thoughts on any announcements in the future!
The first game was fun, I really like it.
I want to try Forbidden West on PC, now I might wait for sale.
Nice Vid.
The stormbird incident with the sky in burning shores is a nice touch though
when I played the first game a big issue was not knowing what to focus my eyes on, and the HUD only made it even more confusing. Ghost of Tsushima had a similar problem but thankfully to a lesser degree.
31:35 you can dodge it, to I would say the shockwave isn’t distinct enough to know when to do it
The best example of the game taking 2 steps back for me, is in it's cosmetic department. I loved that they finally added outfit dyes and added more face paints but then it gets thrown away by the fact that if you want to change them, you would have to travel (or fast travel) all the way back to the dyer and face painter just to change it again, and for a game released for next gen, they have this outdated system that ruins your immersion and wastes your time, especially since in the first game, you can change the face paint whenever you like
I started playing this right after playing Tears of the Kingdom, so the climbing mechanic in this game became something absolutely annoying, stupid and ultimately irritating to me. The whole traversal feel so clunky it's so unenjoyable to travel the map.
This game oddly reminds me of Crysis. Especially Crysis 2.
Sure, Crysis 2 was pretty neat. But it's also dull. It almost feels like a fake game, a tech demo made into a full game.
Horizon has amazing graphics. But it feels like an overly long demo.
Yes you have to imagine city and towns as being larger than they are, we dont see them going to the bathroom either , or even in movies and TV but we assume that they are
Youre completely right. It's like every team that was in charge of a certain mechanic completely failed to communicate with each other. Combat has nothing to do with overworld has nothing to do with traversal.
Combat also seems to have nothing to do with the weapon upgrade system. I have no idea how they ruined a perfectly fine weapon system with whatever the fuck is going on in this game.
The stagger/knockdown attacks from enemies can be brutal, especially when you have multiple enemies. There are some arena fights I've thrown the towel in on because it has the right combo of machines that it becomes VERY easy to get stun locked.
My biggest gripe with the game is the gear upgrade mechanics. It's just so grindy and tedious. I don't mind the idea of needing specific machine parts for upgrades, but it gets awful when you need 3, 4, 5 of specific parts that aren't guaranteed drops, or worse yet, aren't guaranteed drops and you need specific variants of the machine to possibly get them. Need 5 Apex Tremortusk hearts? Welp, this is going to take a whole play session. Or when you I unlock my first piece of high level armor almost immediately after opening the rest of the larger map, and the first or second upgrade level requires a machine part that I'm not going to encounter until I'm a lot deeper into the map. Similarly, while I understand that they wanted to save certain machines appearing until you hit specific story beats, it creates an annoying issue where you're not able to even start collecting parts from specific machines until very late in the game, which makes some of that grinding even more tedious. How nice would it be to pick up a legendary piece of equipment and be able to go, "Oh, I can already upgrade this because I've been fighting this machine this whole game"? Just put all the machines on the map. If you think you're up for it, fight them, if you're not, take the long way around.
An issue both games have had so far.... stuff respawns back in too fast (which seem contradictory to my point above as it should make farming parts easier, but it's still annoying). I've found myself getting caught in both games in murder loops where I wipe out a herd of machines, move onto another nearby herd, which is JUST far enough away that the first herd respawned, so I accidentally get caught in an area of the map because I just keep going between herds killing everything. Slow down the respawn, and maybe have the locations be a bit more dynamic instead of having every herd's location clearly shown on the map.
I'm only 9:52 into this so far, and I agree with the 'imaging' thing.
There've been a few times, after restarting the game, and get to the New Interlude: The Point of the Lance,
the processing orb sometimes doesn't look right at first and the lance sometimes isn't even visible until Aloy pulls it out.
(that may or may not be similar to what you were saying there)
And in regards to the light movement, I've never really noticed that. Guess I'm too focused on playing, lol.
You are saying the environment is a bit too detailed and so a bit too much. The game for me is overwhelming, also in the visual details. But also in the too many quests, way too many characters and in a lot more. These data points you find also are very dull. Their next game, though I admire them for making this game, should go back to HZD structure.
in other words: buy on budget and ramp up your suspension of disbelief-meter
thx a lot for you detailed honesty
I uninstalled this because I couldn't shut her up. I tried going back to it half a dozen times because it was beautiful and I felt it deserved a chance after liking the first one. Then I saw a tower and I wanted the lens, before I even started climbing she said something like "I should go up there" and I was done. She told me answers to problems that I hadn't even realised was a problem yet because I just walked into the area but for some reason "go up there" was the last straw. Couldn't even explore in peace. A true waste of a beautiful world.
That's an accessibility setting and you can turn it off.
It's part of her characterization. She grew up nearly alone. Of course she spends a lot of time talking to herself.
Fantastic analysis. As someone who also loves this game the way you do, I found this video to tackle some of the more annoying features I havent seen others talking about. That damn campfire animation!! How did they not notice? How did it not bother them? The dark lighting in armor or face paint shops! Why would they decide to make the lighting IN-shop dependent on the lighting OUTSIDE of the shop??
So many silly decisions (or critical oversights) in an otherwise amazing game.
Ack!! And the invisible walls! Good lord, that was so frustrating. Especially when you're on one of the Quen missions - there's an area nearby with a campfire but you can't get TO the campfire easily, because there's dozens of invisible walls.
Can definitely say, though, climbing trees ranks near the bottom of "fun things to do as a human" for me.
Omg. The knockdowns from enemies. Aloy takes a little nap every time she gets knocked over. It's so, so frustrating.
In fairness to skill trees that only unlock in a certain order, that's...pretty standard, ya know?
The fact that they don't have a dude like you in a studio blows my mind.
alot of the complaints you have are things you only start to notice with games you really enjoyed imo. also the glider clip shown is unfair. that deescalated faster than normal due to the game not wanting you to enter a quest area. you can immediately tell when the game starts pulling you down more vertically in that clip.
I disagree with what you said in the beginning. The detail is amazing.
A better rhythm of combat would have been better, thank you for mentioning this in your video. I also get frustrated when a machine attacks through large barriers or within an enclosed structure. What’s the point of adding structures when machines are able to attack through them… they trick you into thinking you’re safe…
Anthropology! I wish they really made the different tribes look a certain way, i mean if you live for hundreds of years with a group of people, then wouldnt the different races of people be a mix ?! That would have been much more interesting than this mirroring of our world.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on visual clutter. Graphics, as pretty as they are, cannot convey the depth of bright colours from real life and brightness of the colours blind the viewer because of that. Same happens with digital art, where most bright colours "shine". It is part of the reason I heavily dislike fully digital "bright" shades in anime and why new Sailor Moon, for example, sometimes is too shiny and flat looking.
My personal problem with HFW is dialogue. Too much modern phrases that are specific to a certain region. Maybe it's not that noticeable for an US citizen, as it is an everyday thing, but for people from other regions HFW dialogue is too modern American English for its own good. They had 700 years, but they have no diversity in dialects and no new languages. Ambient chatter is severely lacking and sometimes the same voice line is used too many times in a short period of time.
In short, they need a much better writing team for dialogues and chatter. There is no internal consistencies in how people speak depending on the tribe, especially in ambient chatter.
The funny part is the dialogue is much better in at least 2 localizations that I've seen. Much less anachronistic words and phrases, much more consistency. I was actually surprised by the difference in quality. In most cases originals are better, but in this case I actually would recommend trying to play in the native language of the player.
It still won't fix the fact that people use the words "cauldron", "hologram", etc., when they shouldn't know them, but at least phrases will flow better.
In the first game I felt like an archaeologist, uncovering data from the old world, but in the second one I didn't have that feeling as much.
Very interesting critique. Some valid points, some less so!
Killing off Sona's only two children over the two games seemed unnecessarily cruel and really mean spirited.
I had to reload a save, losing hours of gameplay, once I realised being nice had denied me one of the best weapons in the game, Regalla's Wrath!
My biggest gripe with the game though, was the relentless grind required to upgrade weapons and outfits. The number of Dreadwings and Frostclaws I had to kill to fully upgrade my weapons was frustrating to say the least. Furthermore, I probably had to kill about 200 Tremortusks just to get the ten impact coils I needed to upgrade my preferred weapons!
But worst of all, was losing my shield weaver armour from the first game. All they had to do was require us to recharge the batteries over a few early quests. Acquiring it in the first game was a highlight, only to then realise there was no game left to enjoy it was a huge disappointment.
Otherwise, I've really enjoyed the series, but have little interest in getting a PS5 just to play the Burning Shores DLC. What were they thinking...!!!
I am about 70 hrs into HFW on the PC. I do really like it but I totally agree with the "no fun here" signs you mention.
I loathe the melee combat. It is horrendous with all the knock downs/stun locks you get. Human combat is terrible so I'll never fo the fighting pit stuff.
Ditto for the arena as I enjoy the game so much more when being a proper long range high vantage point hunter and arenas are the opposite of that. Why the f*** woukd a dev lock the best sniper bows behind a crapot arena thing?
Then there is the "crafting". I thought I'd gotten away from such amazing quests as "get ten badger rectums" when I finally gave up on mmos but no! You want to get the best out of your purple gear then get ready to grind!
Critter de spawning was highly irritating😱😤 I really hope they fix this, maybe with a new patch?
This video was hard to watch for someone who really does appreciate and love this game. However you do make some great points and I hope the developers take notes so they can make a masterful third installment of the Horizon franchise
the point of the vertical grapple points is to glide after you shoot yourself into the air
On the topic of the Relic Ruins, totally agree with your comments about the puzzles and how forced they seem. But also like, what are the odds that the only 9 ruins worth exploring are the exact 9 places these guys hid these holograms 1000 years ago? Down the individual room in the individual building, it's like, the only door in the whole place with fully functioning power and locks, everything else is just rotting wood. Too gamified, totally breaks immersion. Could've kept the ruins exactly as they were, but made the 9 collectables unrelated to one another. A comic book, a Rubiks cube, a snowglobe, etc. Could've hidden the balls in more random spots to retain the whole Stemmur changing the sky thing.
You also missed my biggest gameplay complaint - Blocked Paths. I'm the kind of player who wants to explore every nook ans cranny. If the main mission is pointing me one way, I'll check everything else first before I go. You put a question mark on the map nearby, I'm definitely checking it out. I've always been that way, but damn, this game beat the curiosity out of me. The amount of times I'd work my way to a question mark in the first part of the game, sometimes arduously, only to find it's something I can't interact with yet. It happened so much in the early game, I genuinely just broke, and started blasting straight toward the main story map marker, full speed on a mount, ignoring everything else. And when I unlocked the igniter, and the vine cutter, and went back to check these "blocked paths", 9 times out of 10 it wasn't a path at all. Most often it'd be an extremely shallow, 1ft deep cave that inexplicably had a wooden crate sealed behind the rock wall I just blew up. So not worth the build up, effort or backtracking. Killed my enthusiasm for exploring, which is not good for an open world, then gave almost no incentive to go back afterwards because what was inside was probably useless. Like you said with the graphics - there was just so much meaningless clutter on the map, I actually would've preferred less stuff but more meaningful stuff.
Good analysis here. one point I wanted to add is that I didn’t like how the companions are so passive at the base. Also the men are so beta, everyone waits on Aloy, apart from a romance we don’t see…
I totally agree with the idea that the game suffers from a lack of readability. I had the same problem with Zero Dawn and it really took me out of the game. Good example is that when preparing for the final fight, I had no idea where or WHAT the “spire” even was.
When the game first dropped, I absolutely despised it, and that’s coming from an extremely diehard zero dawn fan. It felt like none of my learned skills from the first game translated to this one at all, so much so I was struggling on my normal difficulty first play through after ultra harding zero dawn. I literally didn’t want to leave the settlements because I knew I’d get my ass kicked, I felt like I wasn’t taught how to use these new and modified mechanics and weapons and it took some serious learning time just to bare the combat. After some patches and updates it’s gotten better, and after many hours I’ve come to adore the combat and I’ve finally gotten through an ultra hard run. But I agree with nearly all your points, ESPECIALLY the “no fun allowed” sign lol. Even at higher skill levels stealth and traps seemed all but useless. Will always love the game, but it’s far from perfect
Also its true, that fun aspect is often lost in these new games
I love both Horizon games but they could be more immersive.
- Stealth would be improved if Aloy could carry, throw or and hide bodies like in AC Odyssey or Red Dead 2.
- Swing her spear or at least do a poking thrusting motion underwater, like in AC Odyssey.
- Use her rope as a lasso like in Red Dead 2.
- Hassle villagers like in AC Odyssey or Red Dead 2, then get a bounty and maybe pay off the bounty later on.
- I wish the final battle with Tilda occurred in different set pieces, like how Kratos and Atreus battled Baldur, they were thrown in so many place. The Tilda fight was boring. It would have been better if her friends were there with her actually contributing to the fight.
- There should be an option to shut her up and not solve the puzzle as we are actively trying to solve the puzzle.
- It would have been nice if she could use the Shieldwing as a shield to and not just a glider.
The outfit previews, in my experience, are directly tied to the time of day, for some inexplicable reason.
The parry mechanic can be tricky, cause it wouldn't make sense for aloy to be able to parry a thunderjaw attack, but it would for human enemies, also a lot of machines special attacks wouldt make sense to be parriable, they would have to make a fairly complex parrying system for it to translate and feel right, so i see why they didnt.
A way they could do it, is have the shield only be able to block energy or elemental based attacks, while being unable to stop physical attacks, but in the heat of battle, that would be hard to execute w/o it looking clunky or janky.
One thing I you said that i wanna emphasize is how much time aloy spends incapacited after an attack, its soooo frustrating, It was specially bad when traversing the world, in HZD i found myself doging forwards non stop to get somehwere faster, and it was very seamless and quick in HZD, but in FW, the roll animation seems to suffer from the same problem as in combat, she just takes too long to complete the animations, and the following button press, seems to not be as reliable, you have to press it multiple times for it to register simply because the time window for the command is always unclear.
And I love both think they’re equally awesome and appreciate it for what it is because it took many hours to do
11:56 i agree on the aquatic animals despawning. Its really annoying
35:12 yeah I usually just jump, hold r1, press r2, land, release r1 and repeat
It feels like the melee combat has a steep curve and really reminds me about platinum games, specially Bayonetta where it takes a LOOOOOONG time to be comfortable with it and even hope to do things right. Also human enemies attacks way too hard
21:36 That's not true. You *can* climb that granite rock face (El Capitan). It's the first thing I did when I saw it. And iirc there's loot on top.
2:44 for this tribe it’s supposed to be like that, their whole culture is based of a few holograms that glitches, becoming jagged and unruly
First game was better in almost every way. From graphics and physics to the story. I'm actually unable to finish FW. ZD I restarted as soon as I finished first playthrough.
Sure, different woke level in those 2 games does play a role but mainly it's unpolished feeling and weaker story.
Everything else can be ignored......this games biggest flaw is the trash horrible story.
And just when you think the story is bad the dlc gets released with an even worse story.
Forbidden West did more harm than good for the horizon franchise.
Maybe put the visual critiques to near the end with the story, since they really feel quite minor and nitpicky compared to the much more obvious gameplay problems
It depends can you be more Specific about it the gameplay? Combat machine , melee combat ? I found genuine videos they explain very well and go in depth so can learn much more. Zero dawn melee combat is simple and generic but forbidden west removes that generic and completely transformed so unique and still room for improvement, and the combat for the machines was already amazing and unique in zero dawn and now even better more layers
i agree with your point about the graphics. i can't play this game for too long because my eyes become so strained