My brand new Endeavor Scout handled VERY edge-grabby on the first day. I contacted Endeavor and they indeed stated that they come with 0/90 bevel so that the riders can do whatever they want to it (I didn’t see this anywhere on the board or website). I took it to my local tune guy and got him to put my usual 1/88 edge tune and voila! It rides the way I hoped. Thanks Lars for all the nerd info. It’s being put to good use in the world of your fellow nerds! ❤
That is insane!!!!! I smell "we're saving money by not tuning, and silly snowboarders don't feel the difference anyways!". Blows my mind! Glad you fixed it!
Lars, I can assure you that on my Amplid Big Kahuna of last year, I shave off quite a bite of metal when I did the 1 degree bevel ! They say it directly on the sticker on the board : « Jekyll & Hyde Tuning : All Amplid skis and snowboards leave the factory with a 90 degree edge tune and a 0 degree bevel, this gives you a blank canvas for customization ».
Yes! And that is great!!!! I actually love that! I'm talking about the boards that DON'T say this, but then the homepage has it hidden somewhere... No manufacturer would be silly enough to NOT write that right on the board... Zero base bevel is simply just about unrideable, and they'd lose tons of customers instantly.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel whats the issue with 0 deg Base bevel? Bin meine Amplids bisher so gefahren, habe vorkurzem die seiten kante auf 89 angehoben...
In Lars we trust 😂 Edit: on my new deck, I applied a 3M 0.008’ clear film on the top sheet (with soapy water and a hair dryer). So far it hold up really well. Maybe you could make a video on this subject. 3M invented this to protect helicopter blades from bomb shrapnel in the Vietnam war. Same stuff used in the automotive industrie now.
Really good demonstration! My Coiler came with 89 edge and 0 base (confirmed by Bruce, the builder). Of course there the idea is to let the customer tune it further. I've been really careful with the tuning since there's only one of these boards made. I tried the board without any further tune and can confirm that it was very catchy. Here's what Bruce told me: "The base is flat and edges are 89 degrees. Some prefer to add a bit of base bevel for more forgiveness. I like them flat and of course that is a persona; preference." Later I did a 0.5° but using only a blue and red diamonds so it might be that I just beveled a little bit of the edge there. I was pretty happy with the results but later did a 0.7° tune again with just blue and red diamonds, only removing as little material as possible. The reason for this is that I want to make the edge last as long as possible. So I thought I would just gradually increase the bevel when the edge gets worn. Do you think I should bevel the edge with a file now instead of just diamonds? Also I've been thinking that with extreme edge angle riding, the base bevel probably doesn't make that much of a difference for grip so maybe I could go with at least 1° so it would be more relaxed to ride when I'm not charging steeps. Would that make sense?
It's about the board width relative to your foot size. If the board is on the wide end, it is easier to get it on edge with more base bevel. I've tried 0.7 on some wide boards and found it too aggressive. You're right, it's not about grip. It's all about how the board changes edges. The grabbiness that Bruce likes is something other racers/hardooters sometimes really appreciate for its direct feel. For 99% of riders it's dysfunctional. Diamonds really don't remove much at all... up to you how you go about it.
@ide-Snowboard-Channel Thanks! I have couple of millimeters underhang for both feet. Board is 31cm wide under the bindings and I have mondo 27 feet. Sounds like I should give that file a go for 1° base or even more.
@@xargo6454 btw.... I have that idea of more bevel on relatively wide boards from Mark Fawcett! I tried it, and it sure makes a difference. Board 'rolls' over nicer.
Thanks! I commented on your edge tune video, and jones hasn't gotten back to me about it yet. Kind of hilarious that you beat them to the punch! But yeah, I love my jones board, it's by far the best board I've ever owned (haven't owned many but whatever), so I would've been shocked if there was something egregiously wrong with it. Cheers!
Hahahaha..... yeah, we're not doing too badly! But you'd be surprised in spring... melt freeze cycles on a North facing hill means ice all morning. However, I certainly can't complain! :-)
There are little measuring gadgets. They're pretty expensive. I wouldn't just go to town with a file... I tried before with a fine diamond. But for demo purposes I went to the file. Great question!! I should have thought of this!
You might not be able to tell apart a sharp 90 from a sharp 89 side edge, but you would certainly feel the lack of a bevel in a blind test - in particular as a less experienced rider!! It's the worst!
@@RobertoVillaLobby I did a comparison video with one of my subscribers where we discuss and ride both!! Check it out. Both great boards, but quite different in their approach to carving.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I watched it but it's hard to decide because they are so different and i can only buy one this year. Lucky i'm very good at making impulsive decisions, so i'll end up with one or the other for sure 😅
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Someone in a store actually said he'd always go for the freecarver 6000 over the 9000 because it's way more easy to do a long carve on the 6000 than a short one on the 9000. What's your thought on that?
@@RobertoVillaLobby I understand the general idea, and it’s not really wrong… However, long carved turns on a short radius board means you’re not quite following or manipulating the sidecut radius, but rather that you’re not cleanly carving… The stated number for a given radius is the largest cleanly carved turn. It can only get smaller from there by tipping the board on edge and compressing the camber and sidecut. So doing a 9m turn on the 6000 means you’re somewhat skipping, although it wouldn’t feel that way…. You’d be drifting a bit. Anyhow, the 6000 seems torsionally and overall way too soft to be a somewhat legit carver. It’s more of a nimble quick turner with a long effective edge. The radius alone puts a huge speed limit on the board.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Okay thanks again! That narrows it down to the 9000 or cheater for me then 😋 I can use my mountain twin ultra if i want to be nimble.
Isn’t it a possibility that the reason for the file not contacting the edge is because the board is base high? Maybe enough edge material has already been removed to create that situation?
That would be a really odd situation where the metal wore down evenly but the base material did not. He isn’t saying the file isn’t contacting the edge. If the file and the edge had a different angle he would be scraping metal off of the edge when moving the file.
If it's base high, it has a base bevel, no?! If base and edge are level and flat, the file removes material. My file was barely scraping the base, which is what happens when you bevel for too long... So this board has a base bevel.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I agree with your point. I’ve been tuning boards for over thirty years and in the late 80’s and early 90’s most manufacturers weren’t that precise and production was wildly inconsistent. Many bases were unintentionally base high. However the early flowertop Libs were mostly edge high (some flat) and made for a catchy, nervous on snow feel. Back to the point, I have never really thought about modern factories intentionally beveling the base before. Edge angles yes, but not the base. Thanks for the thought provoking content and for your videos. Keep up the great work. Cheers!
@@jpwookie22 Thanks man! Much appreciated! Here's a story that triggered this nerdery: Working in a retail shop running the backshop and as a buyer a brand rep once approached me and said "My demo fleet has been out on a few events, and everybody comes back hating the boards! The factory realized they might have screwed up the tune. Can you check and base grind them and do what's needed?" So I did over 20 boards... None was bevelled. We even checked among staff, as in: let's take them out before tuning them and see whether they're actually weird! I watched a friend, who is a great, technical snowboarder, do short sliding turns, which he is very good at. It looked like he was absolutely fighting the board at edge change. I tuned it, he rode it again, all good.... This is why my take on this is that manufacturers know this and surely must be setting a base bevel. How many people do you think would be able to do this themselves, would question the tune, would consult a shop with a fresh board??? I'd say 1%.....
@@davidbradley1159 nothing needed for base bevel! Side edge is preference. Personally I don't like this board due to its very thin and torsionally soft centre with stiff, thick tips.It's the opposite of a smart and somewhat traditional carving flex, and I don't understand why Jones deigned it that way other than trying to not overwhelm anybody and cater to the mainstream crowd that rarely applies technical carving techniques.
Jones say so, but according to my own and many other people's experience that is just not the case... They seemingly all have a base bevel, which is great, and the side edge is seemingly all over the place, which is not rare unfortunately. It's seemingly difficult for companies to check the manufacturing facilities to this degree. - Side note: effective edge and edge angles are two different things! EE is the amount of edge touching the snow when the board is in a turn. Edge angles describe the tune of the board, the shaping of the steel.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Hi Lars. Given that side edges are all over the place from board to board, what would you recommend as a "default" angle when buying a file guide (assuming you don't want to buy a bunch of different guides)? Maybe a 1 degree file guide?
@@davetannenbaum depends on what you mostly want to do and your general snow conditions. 1° lasts longer, but is less sharp, while being enough for softer conditions. 2° is better when it’s firmer, therefore dulls quicker. I ride 2° or 3° side edge on my boards. 3 only in spring when it’s melt freeze cycle and I ride early morning
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Awesome thanks Lars. Here in Utah I'm usually riding soft snow, so 1 degree sounds right. I'm mainly looking for something to get out burs and just keep it maintained, not to be razor sharp.
This one is now 1 base and 89 side. It was more like 90 side.... Board is hella flexy in the middle with rather stiff tips. That surprised me! Not really a carving flex profile... But maybe there's some magic in it so it works like a charm.
My brand new Endeavor Scout handled VERY edge-grabby on the first day. I contacted Endeavor and they indeed stated that they come with 0/90 bevel so that the riders can do whatever they want to it (I didn’t see this anywhere on the board or website).
I took it to my local tune guy and got him to put my usual 1/88 edge tune and voila! It rides the way I hoped.
Thanks Lars for all the nerd info. It’s being put to good use in the world of your fellow nerds! ❤
That is insane!!!!! I smell "we're saving money by not tuning, and silly snowboarders don't feel the difference anyways!". Blows my mind! Glad you fixed it!
I felt the same way about my Endeavor Pioneer but never thought to question the base bevel! Thanks for this!
Lars, I can assure you that on my Amplid Big Kahuna of last year, I shave off quite a bite of metal when I did the 1 degree bevel ! They say it directly on the sticker on the board : « Jekyll & Hyde Tuning : All Amplid skis and snowboards leave the factory with a 90 degree edge tune and a 0 degree bevel, this gives you a blank canvas for customization ».
Yes! And that is great!!!! I actually love that!
I'm talking about the boards that DON'T say this, but then the homepage has it hidden somewhere...
No manufacturer would be silly enough to NOT write that right on the board... Zero base bevel is simply just about unrideable, and they'd lose tons of customers instantly.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel whats the issue with 0 deg Base bevel?
Bin meine Amplids bisher so gefahren, habe vorkurzem die seiten kante auf 89 angehoben...
@@bertbert9347 das Brett ist viel zu direct und kann fast nicht seitlich rutschen wenn es auf dem gesamten Belag fährt.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel also catchy beim flat base fahren?
Was empfiehlst du für allmountain fahren? 2/2? 1/1?
@@bertbert9347 1/1 bzw. 1/89 :-) Carving: 1/88 oder 1/87. Park: 2/89. Rails: 2 oder 3/90 oder 89.
In Lars we trust 😂
Edit: on my new deck, I applied a 3M 0.008’ clear film on the top sheet (with soapy water and a hair dryer). So far it hold up really well. Maybe you could make a video on this subject. 3M invented this to protect helicopter blades from bomb shrapnel in the Vietnam war. Same stuff used in the automotive industrie now.
Really good demonstration! My Coiler came with 89 edge and 0 base (confirmed by Bruce, the builder). Of course there the idea is to let the customer tune it further. I've been really careful with the tuning since there's only one of these boards made. I tried the board without any further tune and can confirm that it was very catchy. Here's what Bruce told me: "The base is flat and edges are 89 degrees. Some prefer to add a bit of base bevel for more forgiveness. I like them flat and of course that is a persona; preference."
Later I did a 0.5° but using only a blue and red diamonds so it might be that I just beveled a little bit of the edge there. I was pretty happy with the results but later did a 0.7° tune again with just blue and red diamonds, only removing as little material as possible. The reason for this is that I want to make the edge last as long as possible. So I thought I would just gradually increase the bevel when the edge gets worn.
Do you think I should bevel the edge with a file now instead of just diamonds? Also I've been thinking that with extreme edge angle riding, the base bevel probably doesn't make that much of a difference for grip so maybe I could go with at least 1° so it would be more relaxed to ride when I'm not charging steeps. Would that make sense?
It's about the board width relative to your foot size. If the board is on the wide end, it is easier to get it on edge with more base bevel. I've tried 0.7 on some wide boards and found it too aggressive.
You're right, it's not about grip. It's all about how the board changes edges. The grabbiness that Bruce likes is something other racers/hardooters sometimes really appreciate for its direct feel. For 99% of riders it's dysfunctional.
Diamonds really don't remove much at all... up to you how you go about it.
@ide-Snowboard-Channel Thanks! I have couple of millimeters underhang for both feet. Board is 31cm wide under the bindings and I have mondo 27 feet. Sounds like I should give that file a go for 1° base or even more.
@@xargo6454 Haha, wild!! Yes, 100%!!
I'd probably go 1.5 and then do the side edge at 87°. But feel it out step by step!! You know what you're doing!
@@xargo6454 btw.... I have that idea of more bevel on relatively wide boards from Mark Fawcett! I tried it, and it sure makes a difference. Board 'rolls' over nicer.
Thanks! I commented on your edge tune video, and jones hasn't gotten back to me about it yet. Kind of hilarious that you beat them to the punch! But yeah, I love my jones board, it's by far the best board I've ever owned (haven't owned many but whatever), so I would've been shocked if there was something egregiously wrong with it. Cheers!
Just got an email back from Jones - confirming that all their boards come with 0/90 🤣
I seen the snow you ride on. Your edges dont go dull. Hehe.
Hahahaha..... yeah, we're not doing too badly! But you'd be surprised in spring... melt freeze cycles on a North facing hill means ice all morning. However, I certainly can't complain! :-)
is this how you suggest finding the base bevel-basically just trying to tune it and see what happens? or is there a better way?
There are little measuring gadgets. They're pretty expensive. I wouldn't just go to town with a file... I tried before with a fine diamond. But for demo purposes I went to the file. Great question!! I should have thought of this!
As an intermediate rider I wonder if I can tell the difference in a blind test, to identical boards but at 90° and one with a tune
Most published factory tune specs are wrong. Ski and snowboard.
You might not be able to tell apart a sharp 90 from a sharp 89 side edge, but you would certainly feel the lack of a bevel in a blind test - in particular as a less experienced rider!! It's the worst!
Good to come across this because i'm in doubt between a Freecarver and a cheater for next season. Still can't decide 😅
@@RobertoVillaLobby I did a comparison video with one of my subscribers where we discuss and ride both!! Check it out. Both great boards, but quite different in their approach to carving.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I watched it but it's hard to decide because they are so different and i can only buy one this year. Lucky i'm very good at making impulsive decisions, so i'll end up with one or the other for sure 😅
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Someone in a store actually said he'd always go for the freecarver 6000 over the 9000 because it's way more easy to do a long carve on the 6000 than a short one on the 9000. What's your thought on that?
@@RobertoVillaLobby I understand the general idea, and it’s not really wrong… However, long carved turns on a short radius board means you’re not quite following or manipulating the sidecut radius, but rather that you’re not cleanly carving… The stated number for a given radius is the largest cleanly carved turn. It can only get smaller from there by tipping the board on edge and compressing the camber and sidecut. So doing a 9m turn on the 6000 means you’re somewhat skipping, although it wouldn’t feel that way…. You’d be drifting a bit.
Anyhow, the 6000 seems torsionally and overall way too soft to be a somewhat legit carver. It’s more of a nimble quick turner with a long effective edge. The radius alone puts a huge speed limit on the board.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Okay thanks again! That narrows it down to the 9000 or cheater for me then 😋 I can use my mountain twin ultra if i want to be nimble.
Isn’t it a possibility that the reason for the file not contacting the edge is because the board is base high? Maybe enough edge material has already been removed to create that situation?
That would be a really odd situation where the metal wore down evenly but the base material did not. He isn’t saying the file isn’t contacting the edge. If the file and the edge had a different angle he would be scraping metal off of the edge when moving the file.
If it's base high, it has a base bevel, no?! If base and edge are level and flat, the file removes material. My file was barely scraping the base, which is what happens when you bevel for too long... So this board has a base bevel.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I agree with your point. I’ve been tuning boards for over thirty years and in the late 80’s and early 90’s most manufacturers weren’t that precise and production was wildly inconsistent. Many bases were unintentionally base high. However the early flowertop Libs were mostly edge high (some flat) and made for a catchy, nervous on snow feel.
Back to the point, I have never really thought about modern factories intentionally beveling the base before. Edge angles yes, but not the base. Thanks for the thought provoking content and for your videos. Keep up the great work. Cheers!
@@jpwookie22 Thanks man! Much appreciated!
Here's a story that triggered this nerdery:
Working in a retail shop running the backshop and as a buyer a brand rep once approached me and said "My demo fleet has been out on a few events, and everybody comes back hating the boards! The factory realized they might have screwed up the tune. Can you check and base grind them and do what's needed?"
So I did over 20 boards... None was bevelled. We even checked among staff, as in: let's take them out before tuning them and see whether they're actually weird!
I watched a friend, who is a great, technical snowboarder, do short sliding turns, which he is very good at. It looked like he was absolutely fighting the board at edge change. I tuned it, he rode it again, all good....
This is why my take on this is that manufacturers know this and surely must be setting a base bevel. How many people do you think would be able to do this themselves, would question the tune, would consult a shop with a fresh board??? I'd say 1%.....
Confirmed. My freecarver 6000 has base bevel as well.
Lucky you! Haha... ;-)
So, nothing needed? What do you think to the board?
@@davidbradley1159 nothing needed for base bevel! Side edge is preference. Personally I don't like this board due to its very thin and torsionally soft centre with stiff, thick tips.It's the opposite of a smart and somewhat traditional carving flex, and I don't understand why Jones deigned it that way other than trying to not overwhelm anybody and cater to the mainstream crowd that rarely applies technical carving techniques.
I'm pretty sure that Jones boards have an effective edge of 90 or 0 degrees, maybe people mixed up the definitions of base and effective edge.
Jones say so, but according to my own and many other people's experience that is just not the case... They seemingly all have a base bevel, which is great, and the side edge is seemingly all over the place, which is not rare unfortunately. It's seemingly difficult for companies to check the manufacturing facilities to this degree.
-
Side note: effective edge and edge angles are two different things! EE is the amount of edge touching the snow when the board is in a turn. Edge angles describe the tune of the board, the shaping of the steel.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Hi Lars. Given that side edges are all over the place from board to board, what would you recommend as a "default" angle when buying a file guide (assuming you don't want to buy a bunch of different guides)? Maybe a 1 degree file guide?
@@davetannenbaum depends on what you mostly want to do and your general snow conditions. 1° lasts longer, but is less sharp, while being enough for softer conditions. 2° is better when it’s firmer, therefore dulls quicker. I ride 2° or 3° side edge on my boards. 3 only in spring when it’s melt freeze cycle and I ride early morning
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Awesome thanks Lars. Here in Utah I'm usually riding soft snow, so 1 degree sounds right. I'm mainly looking for something to get out burs and just keep it maintained, not to be razor sharp.
This board has the 3D scoop design at the tips, should this make any difference to the bevel? also how do you rate this board?
Doesn't matter. Entire edge was bevelled, and that is good.
It matters for wax scraping! 😂 Spooned tip/tail makes me curse. haha
Lars content = best nears and fars content.
Thank you kindly! :-)
Thanks Lars what does the stranda biru come with for side and base tune?
1° base, 88° side 👍
Thanks Lars!
Perfect timing on the video! I put an order in for the 6000 this morning. What angles are you tuning your board to?
This one is now 1 base and 89 side. It was more like 90 side.... Board is hella flexy in the middle with rather stiff tips. That surprised me! Not really a carving flex profile... But maybe there's some magic in it so it works like a charm.
1 (actually also a little more) and 89 is what my copy came with.