Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - BiOptimizers: www.magbreakthrough.com/lex to get 10% off - BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off - Notion: notion.com/startups to get up to $1000 off team plan - Blinkist: blinkist.com/lex and use code LEX to get 25% off premium - Magic Spoon: magicspoon.com/lex and use code LEX to get $5 off 0:48 - Mental disorders 9:21 - Intelligence 11:59 - James Joyce 20:36 - Writing 24:00 - Projections 27:35 - Translation 30:06 - Poetry 38:49 - Love 44:23 - Psychiatry 47:35 - Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung 56:19 - Data in cells 1:00:23 - Optogenetics 1:15:50 - Neuralink 1:28:39 - Psychedelics 1:35:02 - Depression 1:50:28 - Talk therapy and psychoanalysis 1:54:09 - Good Will Hunting 2:04:44 - Darkest moments 2:06:15 - Suicide 2:23:21 - Autism 2:42:58 - Schizophrenia 2:54:07 - Why we cry 3:01:19 - Consciousness 3:15:50 - Mortality 3:17:30 - Meaning of life
This is a great, informative conversation. Thank you. Prof. Robert Sapolsky's work would be a very important piece of this puzzle of knowledge you are making.
I wish you would stop qualifying the "meaning of life" question. You just confuse the interviewee or lead them on a tangent. Just ask "what is the meaning of life in your opinion" or something like that.
Karl is without a doubt the Michael Jordan of neuroscience. I’ve known him for well over a decade and he is the undisputed leader in our field, but also as you point out Lex an incredible clinician and writer. He also happens to be an incredibly kind and generous human being. Thank you so much for hosting this and for recording it and sharing it so that we all may benefit. Yours are the conversations of our times. And we are lucky you are at the helm Lex.
I wonder how he ended up in the dangerous pseudoscience of psychiatry - something that is clearly doing way more harm than it can ever do good in cahoots with pharmaceutical companies.
Lex’s playfulness really makes this interview special. Even when confronted by a legendary psychiatrist, he remains authentic - avoiding any intrusive, intellectual posturing - thereby allowing the interview to reach uncommon, or even unexplored, domains.
@@kundakaps Exactly...Karl was saying something interesting and then Lex just interrupted him and went off on his own association. Mostly it was interactive in a fruitful way.
@@DaniRaj666 yeah facts when Karl is thinking deeply he speaks with frequent odd pauses in expressing his ideas and Lex would jus interrupt him with a silly and sometimes unrelated comment and the whole conervsation changes
Having a very addictive personality I knew I was digging a deep hole for myself in college when I was smoking and drinking everything I was handed. After almost a year-long fight, I am 4 days free of cigs, weed, alcohol, and porn (I did all of that on daily bases). I replaced my "free time" with bible and world literature (i stopped reading books in general because I would get high and be too lazy to read). I am never ever putting myself in this situation again. 4 days might not seem a lot but the first 2 days were always the hardest part for me. The difference is overwhelming. I have endless energy, I'm starting to smile at little things, I get excited about the books I'm reading, the food I'm eating, the bedtime, the shower time, driving home, everything, everything, life has come back to me and there is no going back. Good luck out there, you can't give up on yourself, hate yourself as hard as you can, but don't lie to yourself, don't get comfortable, don't give up, fight every day.
I wish you well on your new journey! I tried quitting smoking many times and succeeded thru Allen Carrs easy way book. You can also just search it up on UA-cam. Maybe it can assist you staying sober. Edit: I hope I don’t come off as some spam bot lol.
NO four days is a long time because you made a CHOICE to relinquish the harmful habits. I pray to God that you hang in there and keep up the strength. Lord please help this soul continue the strength to stay on this path of healing!!!💞🙏
It is never too late. It took me 4 decades to get out of my personal hell. Finding yourself (again) is an immensely hurtful challenge and might also be the biggest adventure of your life. Never give up. Greetz from Germany.
"You can take off your clothes, you can punch that guy over there, you can run away, you can go in for a hug. You can say something profound and deep, or you can say something generic...." Lex, brother from afar, I ain't never felt more understood. Thank you and to Dr. D.
My poor mom suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. I lived with her trying to kill me 3-4 different times. I was lucky because my older brother protected me. I hated my mother until I became older and more understanding. Now I believe you don't have a mentally ill mother without having residual effects. I have depression and racing thoughts. My 23 year old son has Asperger's and my 31 year old is Bi Polar. My 20 year old son is wonderful, but suffers from nightmares and my 14 year old is on Adderall that he finally started 6 months ago. Everyone gets help and is doing wonderful. This conversation has me in tears after all I have been through in my 51 years. I want others to know YOU ARE NOT ALONE AND NEVER EVER FEEL SHAME. If you do... please write to me...I will pray with you or for you.💞🙏 Juliette
I love these podcasts soo much, It’s honestly a privilege being able to hear the beautiful insights and stories about our reality from such experts. Thank you Lex
Thank you Lex and Karl for this insightful conversation. Lost an older sister to schizophrenia, cared for a schizophrenic mother (died of COVID) and my genes were not immune to it. I had schizoaffective episode at 21... later to be diagnosed with bi-polar. I’m thankful for Dr. Karl Deisseroth and other scientists. His perspicuous explanation of schizophrenia is really on point having lived with it all my life. I do hope to donate my brain once I pass on for research. I have participated in a few studies at Stanford for other illnesses that have resulted in new and improved medications, and we definitely need better meds for these illnesses. I'm in awe of the brain and all that we have yet to learn.
thank you for having shared so much kindness, thank you for caring for your mother and thank you for staying strong, I can understand if you don't want to be sometimes (I wouldn't have survived extreme cases myself) thank you for contributing to science like that, thank you for being part of a change and new discovery❤ you have taken a part of serving the humanity, you should be proud.
Thank you Dr. Deisseroth for helping those under mental distress. No one wants to loose their mind, it is very scary to watch a love one experience this. So thankful for the few people out there like you seriously trying to help and literally save lives.
I usually do not leave comments, but the topic of this podcast is so good that I have to leave a comment to show my gratitude. Thank you for this podcast
My new favorite Lexcast! I watched the whole thing, it took a while -- but i made it! ... Idk what the other commentators intention was -- maybe they were willing you away from the reinforcer of negativity that is the UA-cam comments section (I think UA-cam tailors the rank ordering to each viewer to maximize engagement), but in case your reading of it was more personal I'd like to counter balance them by saying welcome, appreciate your expression of gratitude, and seconded :-)
I have bipolar disorder with psychosis. Otherwise referred to as schizoaffective disorder. The biggest problem I have in my day-to-day is that most people claim to understand/have experience with “depression” when very obviously they do/have not. The terms “depression,” “anxiety,” “OCD,”and now even “bipolar,” are used as umbrella terms. People who have true clinical diagnoses become more and more isolated because when seeking professional help, the practitioner (depending on how competent they are) treats the symptom, and not the patient. I’m my case, I struggle with thoughts of s*****e. When expressing this to friends and family, they either don’t know how to react or do so using cliches and platitudes. When expressing this to health professionals, it’s as if a switch is flicked and they begin asking generic questions designed to cover themselves (in the case of a patient committing the aforementioned) such as; “have you began planning it out,” “do you have intent.” This makes it seem as if it’s impossible to get genuine, personalized treatment; especially when the patient is experiencing paranoia or psychosis. In my experience, I would never say to another that I understand ANYONE who deals with these same issues, because it’s so subjective. All I know: what helps me is when someone acknowledges they don’t in fact DON’T understand what I’m feeling, and instead share their own experience with me, and then listen to my experience in a truly caring and interested way; not offering advice but simply conversing. However, this is rare to find. This is just a ramble; but I think people need to quit using “depression” to describe grief and sadness, “bipolar” to describe typical mood swings, and “anxiety” to describe nervousness. I think people need to acknowledge the VAST differences in people’s proclivities to mental illness and separate those of us who take psych meds with and without diagnoses; and I think we need to reform our mental health treatment in America, and normalize the concept of s*****e, as to allow for people to speak openly and honestly about these things. I’ve never felt so isolated, when my symptoms get really bad. Even the mere thought of others feeling remotely similar to me breaks my heart. I wish this didn’t exist.
Great clinicians are as rare as great practitioners in any endeavor. Add to that the legal risks of being in any health care professions, and you get the rote recitations you describe. Here’s wishing you the best on your journey.
As someone who has experienced a lot of extremes in my life, I feel really fortunate to be able to find my center repeatedly. I’ve often pondered what the thought process is of someone that gets to that point and goes through with it. I’ve felt the darkest pain, the hopelessness, deep sadness, and cried oceans. But also absolute bliss, a fullness of being more powerful than words can convey; so much so I’ve wondered how my body could contain the depth of it. To this day when I hear Pink Floyd’s ‘Hey You’, I’m immediately a 16 yr old getting a phone call that a friend took her life. Years later someone in the family did the same. Human nature wants to shy away or judge, but we are evolving. I think anyone on the planet and even those that chose to leave it are incredibly brave for showing up. My heart goes out to you, and I truly hope you are able to find some peace. The world can feel overwhelming, and we are all interconnected in ways many do not see. We must tap out from the noise from time to time, and tap into the beautiful things. And there are so, so many. I wish I could tell you this and more in person. Just know even when you feel alone, you never truly are. Sounds cliche, but generally these things earn their title from truth.
Had to revisit this one again. I struggle with social anxiety and depression with my periods of depression typically after a seizure (lifelong epilepsy patient.) For me it's definitely genetic. Both parents suffered from depression and I can trace it back several generations. Watching this helps me reset and get back to life. As always, thank you, Lex and guest. ❤️
I just found this video today, I'm also struggling with social anxiety and depression, but gradually improving by understanding how this deseases work, I hope your journey in life is prosperous, wish you the best.
The testing and imaging technologies are much needed. I wasnt coping well with school cause of poor physical health (had a 1 month long hospitalisation the previous year for typhoid fever) and got diagnosed with severe depression as routine blood reports were normal. The meds seemed to work around the beginning but taking them for around 3 years on and off brutally messed with my well being. All sorts of bad side effects. Maybe my brain was just fine to begin with. Eating better and exercising might have led me to a wayy better trajectory. Please be careful when someone tells you about having a disorder🙏
I hope you are on the road to recovery. Don't give up hope! I'm a lifelong sufferer of bipolar disorder with severe depressive episodes, and for me it started out the other way around - I was strong and healthy physically but gradually over time my poor mental state led to problems with my physical health causing a debilitating spiral. The fact that different life circumstances and progression of illness are generally treated the same by psychiatry; same diagnoses, same medications, really makes me distrust the current scientific basis of psychiatry. To me, it seems obvious that the underlying biological and social mechanisms behind mental disorders vary wildly between individuals, much in the same way that two cancer tumors with very different morphologies but in the same part of the body might cause the same symtoms.
Medical science still has a long way to go! I'm doing fine btw, friends and family have been really supportive. You too take good care of yourself man it'll get better for sure💪
On crying: During the most emotionally challenging events of my life I was crying alot. The 2 people (family members) who I thought cared about me the most told me if I didn't stop crying they would disown me. Several years later, I was the one who in fact disowned them.
I also was cast out by my only family members after the loss of my mother; left homeless. But I choose to see it as their loss. My true family has passed on. Better to see those who don't value ya sooner than later I suppose.
As part of my school's Year 12 magazine, the students created a page entitled 'Things You Always Wanted to Know but Were Too Afraid to Ask'. One of the questions was, "Does Jodie (me) ever stop crying?" Needless to say, I've never attended any of my school reunions.. I'm sorry this was your experience, Connie. Like yourself, I had to walk away from my family, for similar reasons. Such a difficult thing to do! There's no denying, I am definitely a big crier. I feel things very deeply, but it's taken me almost 3 decades to reach a place where I could recognise that being emotionally attuned is actually a good thing. People who lack that emotional understanding and sensitivity towards others are more deficient/disordered, imo💞
Lex, one beautiful and ephemeral thing about your podcast, is that you will never know how many people you've touched, how many were struggling to find something, anything; a single thread in the chaos to hold onto, if only briefly, in order to continue the will to press on.
I must agree, I can confidently say that Lex in a way has saved me. I have been listening to his podcasts for 2 years and man, the things I have been exposed to due to his podcast, MIND BLOWING and LIFE CHANGING. I never liked science growing up and now I am addicted
I feel incredibly emotional after listening to this podcast. As a muslim and religious person who has spent a large part of their life listening to preachers and lessons (preachers who have a tonne of hubris in their manner), to now listen to true open conversation between to intellectual giants speaking with utter humility for more than 3 hours…its just beautiful. I am so grateful. This conversation has taught more than just the contents of the conversation. I believe people with good manners are the people closest to God…and you both have showed the best of manners ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for this podcast and you honesty. As an autistic woman this was so refreshing to hear. To quote Robin Williams " You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it"
I read this book on Dr. Huberman‘s recommendation on one of his podcasts. I was so struck by the stories of patients, I had to pause several times while reading because it was overwhelming. I have incredible admiration for Dr. Deissroth’s work. His writing was captivating - actually mesmerizing - his descriptions of encounters with real people broke my heart. His respect for people struggling with disorders reflects so much empathy. Very special person 😢❤
THANK YOU so much Lex for having Karl on the show! I was introduced to him a few months back through Huberman, and immediately read his book Projections. His work is groundbreaking and fascinating (he already has the Nobel Prize in my mind!) and his writing is a work of beauty and awe. As someone who has spent a great deal of my life entrapped with an ED, his book resonated strongly with me. Thank you again for your dedication to us on here, I appreciate both you, Karl (and Huberman!) greatly🙏💜🤗
Not every mind-state that produces suffering is a disorder. Pain can be inroads to self-knowledge. I am concerned about the rampant medicalization of the human condition.
My brother has bi polar/Schizophrenia and it ruined his Life. He wasn't really, suicidal, he's 59 now, he just adapted. But it's sad, because before the disease kicked in he was a star football player and heading to Brooklyn tech, one of top 3 high schools in NYC, back in the 1970s. By 17, he lost his mind. Dr. Deisserroth explained him exactly when he spike of this disease. Thank you.
It helped me understand why my brother will interrupt with seemingly unrelated tangents. He's a much different person today than he was 20 years ago, unrecognizable.
Lex, you could be one of the greatest interviewers I have ever witnessed. You are in your sweet spot….and truly spectacular at what you do. My son (living in Austin) told me to watch your podcasts and he was right. You bring humility and intelligence and respect and grace to all of these interactions with your guests. So happy to have started watching.
A younger, more insightful and compassionate version of a Charlie Rose host, Lex - you are most relevant today in substance, style, and authenticity. Thank you for creating this thoughtful community and ushering forward topics so needed today. Kudos
Me too. 9 weeks clean. And suffer from depression and social anxiety and being straight compounds everything I'm feeling that I've pushed down for nearly 20 years
This was fascinating all the way through. As the mother of a "recovered" or "best outcome" (socially and vocationally functional) son with autism, the remarks about the early treatment of very young children with that particular disorder were spot on. Thanks, Lex. Your own self-reflections were absolutely charming.
I do the same thing Lex with eye contact. When I'm trying to learn or think deeply while in front of someone, I look up or close my eyes. I have gotten pretty good at switching between them and have the humility to enjoy the oddness of it.
I personally prefer eye contact for communication and sensing engagement. However heavily rely on closing eyes or precise finger to thumb tapping to read faster by applying vowels left and sentence structure to each finger on right hand to cook through pages in research. It seems to be a highly efficient method personally. It's very interesting to hear how many folks have such varied approach to connection! 😁
I'm struggling with severe depression and I want to say that the section on depression was so accurate and well explained. This is an amazing resource for people to understand depression for themselves and/or others. I am so deeply grateful for this video.
@@EmersonPeters Im pulling for ya, hoping you get through this bout soon. We the world are waiting for ya at the end of the tunnel.. I recently just made my way out. This was my worst and longest battle yet but I made it. It's amazing because music is coming back to me organically, it's amazing. The will to just write this right now speaks volumes to my progress as compared to just a week ago. It's nice to my interests be interesting again. Be well yo and good luck.
How did you know you had this disorder ? Did you read about it, and recognize it in yourself, so you got help? Was the help a lot of talking or pills? Was the counseling helpful, if they aren't allowed to give advice or tell you anything?
I love these deep conversations you have, they really have you open your mind and think about topics mentioned in your conversations. I sometimes watch this with people and it will start deeper conversations , more fulfilling, and enlightening conversations based on topics you've dived into on your channel. I'm sure you couldn't possibly imagine the impact you have by just posting these in their raw form. But they inspire me to think deeper, more outside the box, to question everything and just step out of the every day flows. I feel like it's food for my brain. Anyways, I'm done rambling here. thank you Lex. I can't wait to see the thought provoking conversations you have planned for the future.
One thing i’ve been really thinking a lot about when it comes to the disease/disorder conversation is that so much about how we define them is not intrinsic to us as humans, but moreso the superficial societal constructs and confines we exist amongst. Oftentimes it seems to me that one’s ability to exist , function, and be productive with what we call “psychological disorders” is totally exacerbated by these modern thought systems - so much so that my conclusion is frequently that it is not the mind of the sufferer that is broken but the world itself, and the social/economic existence they are being forcibly shoehorned into.
I fall in the bipolar spectrum, sister and brother both are schizophrenic, it's been a tough long Rd being caretaker and patient.. I am very disturbed at Americas lack of empathy and support in our sick care system. I never give up on myself or my siblings I do fear the predatory system we live in. Housing financial rights etc..ty for this video and topic. ❤❤🙏🌌🌠
Kindness. Genuine directed attention to human basic needs. Patience. Empathy. Kindness and more kindness. Regardless the diagnosis, disease, disorder - As a psychiatric nurse in acute and emergency settings…this is always the place to start. Thank you for another excellent interview and listening experience.
I love how Lex humbles the person infront of him with his own humbleness while remaining open, interested and astounished like a child. This all while being dead serious.
I never sit through anything of such length, but this episode was the most fascinating, thought & emotion provoking one of seen from you. Both you and your guest were mesmerizing. Thank you.
Dear LEX FRIDMAN , I know that my words mean little but I will try to speak what is been on my mind (as you always do for us -your listeners) I have listened today to this conversation with KARL DEISSEROTH in attempt to prepare for the interview with my Psichitrist next week. Listening to this conversation and hundreds of hours of YOUR podcasts I suddenly realised that this is the BEST kind of TALKING PSICHOTHERAPY . You give HOPE to us HOPELESS and WEIRD people who suffer from Psichiatric Disorder. You give us COURAGE to use ARTFULLY CONVERSATIONS on that deeper LEVEL ( as you do) with another HUMAN BEINGS to BETTER understand our own MINDS, get dipper insights of that horrible illness I have to live better quality of Life and HELP others who also SUFFER in silence as I do. "Knowing your own DARKNESS is the best METHOD to dealing with DARKNESS of other people " LEX FRIDMAN Thanks again for giving Me HOPE. I personally think that this is the missing LINK which opens the doors for better FUTURE and less suffering on individual and collective level in this chaotic WORLD we all share this days. Thak you for your UNIQUE VOICE, kindness , empathy and all the love you send our way! Deeply APPRECIATE ❤ You mean a lot for me and other HUMAN BEINGS like ME!
As an introvert, the eye contact situation is exactly the same with me. The impetus is revealed in the name. Introverts use the eyes to take information in whereas extroverts use them to reach out.
Lex you are one of my inspirations to pick up guitar again, thank you! Your video on building a habit has helped immensely. I hope you will feature musical guests in the future; people like Dan Auerbach, Josh Homme, etc.
Sapolsky's one sentence definition of a major depression "it's a biochemical disorder with a genetic component with early experience influences where somebody can't appreciate sunsets." It is surprising that since humans can derive pleasure and satisfaction out of terrible experiences like dying of cancer, "what could possibly be worse than a disease whose defining symptom is the inability to feel pleasure"? Zizek big think- why be happy when you could be interesting?
The delayed choice quantum eraser experiment really helped me realize, as somebody with social anxiety issues, that if I stop looking at the negative, the problem disappears. The only thing is, sometimes the problem is the other person. Somebody with no wisdom might say, "You can't go around blaming your problems on other", to which I would say, "No observations, mate".
“I am overwhelmed by the lack of limit. Have you looked around? You can do whatever the hell you want. Nobody will remember you anyway. All of us will be dead one day. You can do anything.” This is such a freeing thought. Well said, Lex!
I’m a university student currently studying psychology. In a class last semester called “brain and behavior” we briefly learned about optogenetics, and it was described as a new technique in the field. Incredible that I’ve randomly stumbled across the man who’s been credited with pioneering this technology on a Lex Fridman podcast. Loved this episode. Thanks to this, I’m now going to make sure I take a neuroscience class next semester.
Holy shit. The insight on autism was so beautiful. My daughter is suspected to be on the spectrum, which has lead to some introspection over my own status. Loved the conversation about it!
Wow, Lex… your interviewing skills continually hit these podcasts completely out of the park. Your podcasts always surface an unusual level of introspective insight from your esteemed guests. These interviews are pure gold!
The "nihilist penguin" at 41:23, for those interested, is from Werner Herzog's 'Encounters at the End of the World' - an excellent documentary about the people that live and work in Antartica. Mostly societal misfits and outsiders seeking the abyss.
Omg can’t wait to watch this! I LOVED “Projections” 💗💗💗 I listened to it twice! Such a deep, rich book! Beautifully written too! It left an eternal mark in my psyche/Spirit. Also loved him on The Huberman Lab Podcast! He’s definitely a higher being among us. ✨✨✨ So excited for this one. Thank you! 💗 🧠🙌🏼
My brother is now 16years schizofrenic, in hospital from his 16years, taking meds that are very heavy....he never gonna have a normal life....tears.........
Incredibly sad to read this... Sorry to hear that and I hope for the best for you and your family during these tough times. I discovered my mom has schizophrenia. She unfortunately won't take her meds and keeps getting worse. I feel for all the people affected by this mental disorder.
It's amazing how productivity and focus can improve by several orders of magnitude when you learn how to put the limbic system and inner critic to sleep
When Lex gets execited by poems: "Who are you? Have we met before somewhere? Who is that person behind there? I want to get there whatever it is... Maybe that love is, the life long pursuit to get that person."
Wow! Loved this dialogue between two great thinkers. I left this conversation feeling uplifted, enlightened, and just thankful to be a part of the beautiful tapestry that is existence.
I worked with Deisseroths lab multiple times throughout the 2000's as optogenetics was becoming a mainstream viability. There's something similar about many of the greats like James Simon, Reed Hastings, Karl Deisseroth and many of the current nobel laureates at Stanford and why Karl will inevitably soon be one as well. Congratulations on your success and thank you Lex for well thought out questions and a brilliant story arc.
There is nothing like listening to the words of people who speak the things you think of. It is like being in the presence of people who are made of your same being.
I am apparently witnessing schizophrenia first hand,and what , to me is the saddest part,is the limitations caused by lack of sufficient funding.Not enough doctors,not enough time…..
You’ll never be able to fully comprehend depression unless you’ve suffered from it. You can’t watch a lecture or podcast on depression and think you understand it- even one as insightful and brilliant as this one. But I will tell you this: depression is the worst thing that can happen to a person in this life, and it’s not even close. I suffered from severe depression and suicidal ideations for a decade and it was absolute hell
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It was a very interesting talk Mr. Lex. I congratulate your lectures in general. They are long, but worth listening to. I liked this one in particular because it has dealt with an issue I have been thinking about, which is that much of insanity, even much of which is dealt with chemically, starts out as a misunderstanding between the individual and the society around the individual. Well this was in some way implied by Freud as I understand it, but I just think that it is interesting how our social interactions transform into a certain chemistry in the brain, that may end up either as a bad habit or the cure (as in therapy). Or what is the will if not a certain chemistry of the brain? This will being a changing thing upon the gaze of another.
On the topic of love, it's really an amazing experience that varies from person to person for myself. My love for my friends can sometimes cause confusion in my mind that I am in love with them, which isn't the case. There's certain toxic traits of myself that come out from both love of a friend and love of a mate. A person within me, a person I don't like... The one who is selfish and wants them all to myself, the person who would die for them, the person who can be jealous of attention that I'm not given in return. That person isn't who I want to be, but hopelessly I become that person and end up hurting myself and others over. I've also thought there was a very simple way to make the word LOVE an acronym. Lots Of Various Emotions. Because, that's really what love has been for me. An array of emotions that I can't control, an agent of chaos that has invaded a quiet mind and started a riot within me. Excellent Podcast as always, Lex. 💚
He is completely out wrong though. If you apply the same stimulus to all your neurons they would get all scrambled up. They aren’t meant to receive just anything. Not to mention if they all receive input at once there is no more room left for activity that results in your consciousness.
@@Stierenkloot Thanks for your reply! First of, I think it's just meant to be a thought experiment, indifferent of whether or not applying these stimuli is theoretically possible or not :) But: - I *do* think neurons are meant to receive something. Neurotransmitters, to be exact. These transmitters trigger action potentials, which can also be triggered using Optogenetics (which Karl Deisseroth does research on). - From your answer, I derive that you see the natural interaction between neurons (which you call "activity") as the source of consciousness. So you would answer "no" to the question posed at 3:05:10, correct? In that case, consciousness wouldn't have its origin in the firing pattern of neurons, but in the synaptic gap, where neurons affect each other through neurotransmitters. But why would *that* be where consciousness has its origin? I don't mean to dismiss your reply. I'm just really curious about this mystery myself! 😊
@@samuelvilz consciousness is just our internal user interface to keep us alive. It’s obviously a result of our physical body. The brain being a part of that. But the brain wouldn’t be conscious without all the input of the rest of the body. Without input there’s nothing for your brain to do I think. That’s why I think AI won’t be human-like ever as well. We need our emotions and physical limitations to motivate us to do anything at all. So yeah I think the brain has dedicated spots to do dedicated things and it adds up to your consciousness. If you overwrite input into all those neurons then how could there be a consciousness left? Its physically being generated. Not some hocus pocus nonsense with souls and spirits and whatnot. If you have an orchestra and you force all the musicians to eat hot dogs in stead of playing their instruments then good job you forced input into all the parts that made up the orchestra but there won’t be any music
@@Stierenkloot I like your orchestra metaphor, but I think we have a different understanding of Karl's scenario: If it was possible to play each musician like a marionette, and to make them apply exactly the same actions to the instruments as when they played a symphony: How would the resulting music not be equal to said symphony? I'd say it would sound exactly the same. And I agree to your dismissal of hocus pocus :D That's why I'm all the more curious where exactly you draw the line. Also, you're the first person I deeply converse with about this topic! 😊 I'm glad you replied!
I would be interested to see a conversation between you and Dr. Richard Schwartz. Hearing you describe that internal negative voice makes me think of IFS. You would benefit greatly from looking at internal parts through this model! Great podcast!
How beautiful can the world be when this interview is recorded on UA-cam! I will watch this at least three times in the next week. I am sure this will change your life; it has changed mine. I remember listening to Karl on the airplane and being fascinated with every word he said.
They should do sit-ups where the upper part of the abdomen is worked, with the legs raised and trying to touch the feet with the hands and its variants that work the upper part of the abdomen, they will see improvements quickly. That upper abdominal exercise will take away your depression and anxiety, it will also heal your mind..
I'm glad you finally had Oscar Isaac on the podcast, really would have loved to hear you ask about the psychology of the mind battle between him and James Mcavoy.
Great episode, very pleasant to listen to Karl with how calmly he lays out his thought processes. Also he looks like the scientific recreation that aliens might come up with in a few thousand years after finding Eric Weinstein's skull, so that's a plus.
One contradiction I have is when he brought up the correlation of eating disorders in comparison with education and wage level. Diagnosed eating disorders are far more weighted on the female side. The attractive female makes far more money than the attractive male. Not a lot of thought was put into the analytical side of that statement. Meaning females have much more motivation to stay fit and attractive as opposed to males considering the employment situations they are put in.
I don't know if Lex normally write back to message in comments since there are so many. I ask anyway: Hi Lex, hope you are well. I enjoyed the parts of reading, poetry, love and psychedelic. May I please ask if you can share the text of the poem with us? It was beautiful. Many thanks 😊 🙏
The biggest problem in psychiatry today is not that those in need don't seek it, it's that those who seek it are hit with "sorry, we are not taking on new patients" answering machine message for all but the least experienced practitioners. There must be a better way to serve more patients. Let's get creative.
The most deeply brilliant and intelligent people always seem to be the most humble. What a poweful conversation! This guest, along with Andrew Haberman, and Lex's incredible mind- are contributing to the world in such moving and profound ways! ♡♡ I can't wait to sink my mind in Karl's book!
Oh my god I am freaking out. My two favourite people.... 3 hours... 🤭😁🥰 I loved listening to you both discuss Autism. I am an Autistic Psychotherapist, and felt you both described the experience of being Autistic very accurately. I would love to hear more from you both on this topic. Thank you for this episode! So exciting!
Brilliant and Emotionally so deep, these two men create a couple hours of making sense of questions we have quietly asked ourselves. Their intelligence compliments each other equally. Thank You Lex.
Thank you for this interview......Your book, Dr. Deisseroth, is a classic. So beautifully written, each line is worth a re-read and I just don't want to get to the last page! You have touched my heart and soul and my tears started to flow on page one! Congratulations on every level!
Such a fascinating conversation. The post covid neurological function area was especially interesting. Curious to think that the virus or others could alter functioning of the brain in a possibly beneficial way. Would be very interested in hearing a neurobiologist who also has a virology focus talk on the potential of viruses leading to beneficial adaptations in various species, including humans. On a tangent, there is a really entertaining anime called Musaigen No Phantom World where a viral outbreak causes kids and teenagers to start seeing beings from another dimension/phantoms. The anime came out like three years before covid.
Interviews like this have helped me find myself allowing me to return to school the right way thank you so much lex hoping to one day shake your hand.. and karl i needed this interview thank you and god bless you
Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions:
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0:48 - Mental disorders
9:21 - Intelligence
11:59 - James Joyce
20:36 - Writing
24:00 - Projections
27:35 - Translation
30:06 - Poetry
38:49 - Love
44:23 - Psychiatry
47:35 - Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung
56:19 - Data in cells
1:00:23 - Optogenetics
1:15:50 - Neuralink
1:28:39 - Psychedelics
1:35:02 - Depression
1:50:28 - Talk therapy and psychoanalysis
1:54:09 - Good Will Hunting
2:04:44 - Darkest moments
2:06:15 - Suicide
2:23:21 - Autism
2:42:58 - Schizophrenia
2:54:07 - Why we cry
3:01:19 - Consciousness
3:15:50 - Mortality
3:17:30 - Meaning of life
I love you Lex. Thank you for all you do.
This is a great, informative conversation. Thank you. Prof. Robert Sapolsky's work would be a very important piece of this puzzle of knowledge you are making.
How can you still be on Putin side? Why?
I love you more, Lex 😚
I wish you would stop qualifying the "meaning of life" question. You just confuse the interviewee or lead them on a tangent. Just ask "what is the meaning of life in your opinion" or something like that.
Karl is without a doubt the Michael Jordan of neuroscience. I’ve known him for well over a decade and he is the undisputed leader in our field, but also as you point out Lex an incredible clinician and writer. He also happens to be an incredibly kind and generous human being. Thank you so much for hosting this and for recording it and sharing it so that we all may benefit. Yours are the conversations of our times. And we are lucky you are at the helm Lex.
Nicely written. I just 1 minute ago recognized his name from your podcast.
Huberman! My gf loves your shit!
Thank you so much for what you do.
I wonder how he ended up in the dangerous pseudoscience of psychiatry - something that is clearly doing way more harm than it can ever do good in cahoots with pharmaceutical companies.
Lex reading that poem while interrupting with his own thoughts has definitely made my day. It truly is a remarkably beautiful poem.
Lex’s playfulness really makes this interview special.
Even when confronted by a legendary psychiatrist, he remains authentic - avoiding any intrusive, intellectual posturing - thereby allowing the interview to reach uncommon, or even unexplored, domains.
The guy talked more than the interviewee!
Why we love the very young!
@@kundakaps Exactly...Karl was saying something interesting and then Lex just interrupted him and went off on his own association. Mostly it was interactive in a fruitful way.
@@DaniRaj666 yeah facts when Karl is thinking deeply he speaks with frequent odd pauses in expressing his ideas and Lex would jus interrupt him with a silly and sometimes unrelated comment and the whole conervsation changes
I saw a new side of Lex I hadn’t seen before, although I’m a rather new viewer.
Having a very addictive personality I knew I was digging a deep hole for myself in college when I was smoking and drinking everything I was handed. After almost a year-long fight, I am 4 days free of cigs, weed, alcohol, and porn (I did all of that on daily bases). I replaced my "free time" with bible and world literature (i stopped reading books in general because I would get high and be too lazy to read).
I am never ever putting myself in this situation again. 4 days might not seem a lot but the first 2 days were always the hardest part for me. The difference is overwhelming. I have endless energy, I'm starting to smile at little things, I get excited about the books I'm reading, the food I'm eating, the bedtime, the shower time, driving home, everything, everything, life has come back to me and there is no going back. Good luck out there, you can't give up on yourself, hate yourself as hard as you can, but don't lie to yourself, don't get comfortable, don't give up, fight every day.
I wish you well on your new journey!
I tried quitting smoking many times and succeeded thru Allen Carrs easy way book.
You can also just search it up on UA-cam.
Maybe it can assist you staying sober.
Edit: I hope I don’t come off as some spam bot lol.
One day at a time. Go well.
Seems you are simply living in the now. Good on you. Wishing you all the best 👌
NO four days is a long time because you made a CHOICE to relinquish the harmful habits. I pray to God that you hang in there and keep up the strength. Lord please help this soul continue the strength to stay on this path of healing!!!💞🙏
It is never too late.
It took me 4 decades to get out of my personal hell. Finding yourself (again) is an immensely hurtful challenge and might also be the biggest adventure of your life.
Never give up.
Greetz from Germany.
"You can take off your clothes, you can punch that guy over there, you can run away, you can go in for a hug. You can say something profound and deep, or you can say something generic...." Lex, brother from afar, I ain't never felt more understood. Thank you and to Dr. D.
I love you guys
My poor mom suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. I lived with her trying to kill me 3-4 different times. I was lucky because my older brother protected me. I hated my mother until I became older and more understanding. Now I believe you don't have a mentally ill mother without having residual effects. I have depression and racing thoughts. My 23 year old son has Asperger's and my 31 year old is Bi Polar. My 20 year old son is wonderful, but suffers from nightmares and my 14 year old is on Adderall that he finally started 6 months ago. Everyone gets help and is doing wonderful. This conversation has me in tears after all I have been through in my 51 years. I want others to know YOU ARE NOT ALONE AND NEVER EVER FEEL SHAME. If you do... please write to me...I will pray with you or for you.💞🙏
Juliette
How are you doing now, Ma'am?
I love these podcasts soo much, It’s honestly a privilege being able to hear the beautiful insights and stories about our reality from such experts. Thank you Lex
Thank you Lex and Karl for this insightful conversation. Lost an older sister to schizophrenia, cared for a schizophrenic mother (died of COVID) and my genes were not immune to it. I had schizoaffective episode at 21... later to be diagnosed with bi-polar. I’m thankful for Dr. Karl Deisseroth and other scientists. His perspicuous explanation of schizophrenia is really on point having lived with it all my life. I do hope to donate my brain once I pass on for research. I have participated in a few studies at Stanford for other illnesses that have resulted in new and improved medications, and we definitely need better meds for these illnesses. I'm in awe of the brain and all that we have yet to learn.
So did you know you had this disorder before seeing a doctor? Did you know something was wrong?
thank you for having shared so much kindness, thank you for caring for your mother and thank you for staying strong, I can understand if you don't want to be sometimes (I wouldn't have survived extreme cases myself)
thank you for contributing to science like that, thank you for being part of a change and new discovery❤ you have taken a part of serving the humanity, you should be proud.
Another wonderful talk. If we ever meet, Mr. Fridman, I won't start with a hello, I will just give you a hug. Thank you!
Thank you Dr. Deisseroth for helping those under mental distress. No one wants to loose their mind, it is very scary to watch a love one experience this. So thankful for the few people out there like you seriously trying to help and literally save lives.
I usually do not leave comments, but the topic of this podcast is so good that I have to leave a comment to show my gratitude.
Thank you for this podcast
My new favorite Lexcast! I watched the whole thing, it took a while -- but i made it!
... Idk what the other commentators intention was -- maybe they were willing you away from the reinforcer of negativity that is the UA-cam comments section (I think UA-cam tailors the rank ordering to each viewer to maximize engagement), but in case your reading of it was more personal I'd like to counter balance them by saying welcome, appreciate your expression of gratitude, and seconded :-)
@@OGRE_HATES_NERDS No u
Awesome comment!! I could go on!
I have bipolar disorder with psychosis. Otherwise referred to as schizoaffective disorder. The biggest problem I have in my day-to-day is that most people claim to understand/have experience with “depression” when very obviously they do/have not. The terms “depression,” “anxiety,” “OCD,”and now even “bipolar,” are used as umbrella terms. People who have true clinical diagnoses become more and more isolated because when seeking professional help, the practitioner (depending on how competent they are) treats the symptom, and not the patient. I’m my case, I struggle with thoughts of s*****e. When expressing this to friends and family, they either don’t know how to react or do so using cliches and platitudes. When expressing this to health professionals, it’s as if a switch is flicked and they begin asking generic questions designed to cover themselves (in the case of a patient committing the aforementioned) such as; “have you began planning it out,” “do you have intent.” This makes it seem as if it’s impossible to get genuine, personalized treatment; especially when the patient is experiencing paranoia or psychosis. In my experience, I would never say to another that I understand ANYONE who deals with these same issues, because it’s so subjective. All I know: what helps me is when someone acknowledges they don’t in fact DON’T understand what I’m feeling, and instead share their own experience with me, and then listen to my experience in a truly caring and interested way; not offering advice but simply conversing. However, this is rare to find.
This is just a ramble; but I think people need to quit using “depression” to describe grief and sadness, “bipolar” to describe typical mood swings, and “anxiety” to describe nervousness. I think people need to acknowledge the VAST differences in people’s proclivities to mental illness and separate those of us who take psych meds with and without diagnoses; and I think we need to reform our mental health treatment in America, and normalize the concept of s*****e, as to allow for people to speak openly and honestly about these things. I’ve never felt so isolated, when my symptoms get really bad. Even the mere thought of others feeling remotely similar to me breaks my heart. I wish this didn’t exist.
Great clinicians are as rare as great practitioners in any endeavor. Add to that the legal risks of being in any health care professions, and you get the rote recitations you describe. Here’s wishing you the best on your journey.
As someone who has experienced a lot of extremes in my life, I feel really fortunate to be able to find my center repeatedly. I’ve often pondered what the thought process is of someone that gets to that point and goes through with it. I’ve felt the darkest pain, the hopelessness, deep sadness, and cried oceans. But also absolute bliss, a fullness of being more powerful than words can convey; so much so I’ve wondered how my body could contain the depth of it.
To this day when I hear Pink Floyd’s ‘Hey You’, I’m immediately a 16 yr old getting a phone call that a friend took her life. Years later someone in the family did the same. Human nature wants to shy away or judge, but we are evolving. I think anyone on the planet and even those that chose to leave it are incredibly brave for showing up. My heart goes out to you, and I truly hope you are able to find some peace. The world can feel overwhelming, and we are all interconnected in ways many do not see. We must tap out from the noise from time to time, and tap into the beautiful things. And there are so, so many. I wish I could tell you this and more in person. Just know even when you feel alone, you never truly are. Sounds cliche, but generally these things earn their title from truth.
@@kt9495 Beautifully said. Thank you 🙏🏽.
When I am feeling isolated, book and a slow walk in nature serve me better than seeking human interaction.
Try it good luck.
How does someone with bipolar understand depression? At least a bipolar individual experiences a high once in a while.
Had to revisit this one again. I struggle with social anxiety and depression with my periods of depression typically after a seizure (lifelong epilepsy patient.) For me it's definitely genetic. Both parents suffered from depression and I can trace it back several generations. Watching this helps me reset and get back to life. As always, thank you, Lex and guest. ❤️
I just found this video today, I'm also struggling with social anxiety and depression, but gradually improving by understanding how this deseases work, I hope your journey in life is prosperous, wish you the best.
@@lionheart-182 I wish you the very best as well. We're in this together. ❤️
The testing and imaging technologies are much needed. I wasnt coping well with school cause of poor physical health (had a 1 month long hospitalisation the previous year for typhoid fever) and got diagnosed with severe depression as routine blood reports were normal. The meds seemed to work around the beginning but taking them for around 3 years on and off brutally messed with my well being. All sorts of bad side effects. Maybe my brain was just fine to begin with. Eating better and exercising might have led me to a wayy better trajectory. Please be careful when someone tells you about having a disorder🙏
I hope you are on the road to recovery. Don't give up hope! I'm a lifelong sufferer of bipolar disorder with severe depressive episodes, and for me it started out the other way around - I was strong and healthy physically but gradually over time my poor mental state led to problems with my physical health causing a debilitating spiral. The fact that different life circumstances and progression of illness are generally treated the same by psychiatry; same diagnoses, same medications, really makes me distrust the current scientific basis of psychiatry. To me, it seems obvious that the underlying biological and social mechanisms behind mental disorders vary wildly between individuals, much in the same way that two cancer tumors with very different morphologies but in the same part of the body might cause the same symtoms.
I have motivation issues with PTSD but i find a bit of mowing exercise really makes me feel better in myself, yes exercise is important.
Medical science still has a long way to go! I'm doing fine btw, friends and family have been really supportive. You too take good care of yourself man it'll get better for sure💪
On crying: During the most emotionally challenging events of my life I was crying alot. The 2 people (family members) who I thought cared about me the most told me if I didn't stop crying they would disown me. Several years later, I was the one who in fact disowned them.
Crying session at my house, pull up.
You can feel sorry for them. They are fighting a greater struggle you could ever imagine ❤️
I also was cast out by my only family members after the loss of my mother; left homeless. But I choose to see it as their loss. My true family has passed on. Better to see those who don't value ya sooner than later I suppose.
As part of my school's Year 12 magazine, the students created a page entitled 'Things You Always Wanted to Know but Were Too Afraid to Ask'.
One of the questions was, "Does Jodie (me) ever stop crying?" Needless to say, I've never attended any of my school reunions..
I'm sorry this was your experience, Connie. Like yourself, I had to walk away from my family, for similar reasons. Such a difficult thing to do! There's no denying, I am definitely a big crier. I feel things very deeply, but it's taken me almost 3 decades to reach a place where I could recognise that being emotionally attuned is actually a good thing. People who lack that emotional understanding and sensitivity towards others are more deficient/disordered, imo💞
@@MyWits_End wow... that's horrible what happened at school! I'm a crier too. A complete open book. Can never play poker 😆
Lex, one beautiful and ephemeral thing about your podcast, is that you will never know how many people you've touched, how many were struggling to find something, anything; a single thread in the chaos to hold onto, if only briefly, in order to continue the will to press on.
yes 🙏
I must agree, I can confidently say that Lex in a way has saved me. I have been listening to his podcasts for 2 years and man, the things I have been exposed to due to his podcast, MIND BLOWING and LIFE CHANGING. I never liked science growing up and now I am addicted
Please just come out of the closet
I’m surprised people listen to his podcasts for him , the way he talks is annoying as hell but he does ask some good questions
I feel incredibly emotional after listening to this podcast. As a muslim and religious person who has spent a large part of their life listening to preachers and lessons (preachers who have a tonne of hubris in their manner), to now listen to true open conversation between to intellectual giants speaking with utter humility for more than 3 hours…its just beautiful. I am so grateful. This conversation has taught more than just the contents of the conversation. I believe people with good manners are the people closest to God…and you both have showed the best of manners ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for this podcast and you honesty. As an autistic woman this was so refreshing to hear. To quote Robin Williams " You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it"
...unless that madness makes you suicidal and homicidal...then lose it...
I read this book on Dr. Huberman‘s recommendation on one of his podcasts. I was so struck by the stories of patients, I had to pause several times while reading because it was overwhelming. I have incredible admiration for Dr. Deissroth’s work. His writing was captivating - actually mesmerizing - his descriptions of encounters with real people broke my heart. His respect for people struggling with disorders reflects so much empathy. Very special person 😢❤
what was the book called if you don't mind sharing.
THANK YOU so much Lex for having Karl on the show! I was introduced to him a few months back through Huberman, and immediately read his book Projections. His work is groundbreaking and fascinating (he already has the Nobel Prize in my mind!) and his writing is a work of beauty and awe. As someone who has spent a great deal of my life entrapped with an ED, his book resonated strongly with me. Thank you again for your dedication to us on here, I appreciate both you, Karl (and Huberman!) greatly🙏💜🤗
Very informal! I’ve done the cold water therapy & immediately felt relief from stress, decreased anxiety, and depression. It has changed my life.
How frequently are you doing it?
I take a cold shower every morning for about 4 weeks
@@chrisclark2244 that’s so impressive! Im to scared.
@@deborahritchie3912 Start having your normal shower and then finish with the colder water. Worked for me and keeps me cold tolerant for sea swimming
Not every mind-state that produces suffering is a disorder. Pain can be inroads to self-knowledge. I am concerned about the rampant medicalization of the human condition.
Truth!
Absolutely agree.
what did you mean by this
My brother has bi polar/Schizophrenia and it ruined his Life. He wasn't really, suicidal, he's 59 now, he just adapted. But it's sad, because before the disease kicked in he was a star football player and heading to Brooklyn tech, one of top 3 high schools in NYC, back in the 1970s. By 17, he lost his mind.
Dr. Deisserroth explained him exactly when he spike of this disease. Thank you.
It helped me understand why my brother will interrupt with seemingly unrelated tangents. He's a much different person today than he was 20 years ago, unrecognizable.
Lex, you could be one of the greatest interviewers I have ever witnessed. You are in your sweet spot….and truly spectacular at what you do. My son (living in Austin) told me to watch your podcasts and he was right. You bring humility and intelligence and respect and grace to all of these interactions with your guests. So happy to have started watching.
Very exciting! Thanks for continuing to spoil us with your amazing conversations!
RuneScape
A younger, more insightful and compassionate version of a Charlie Rose host, Lex - you are most relevant today in substance, style, and authenticity. Thank you for creating this thoughtful community and ushering forward topics so needed today. Kudos
he has a great sense of humour, too. understated. i think he's the Sweetest, just very pure-hearted. i hope to see his career continue to elevate.
That fits so perfectly. I'm strugglin with Addiction and Depression very hard. Excited for this one! Thanks, Lex!
addiction of what??
@@letshangout6359 your mom
Me too, its not easy. Sending love 🧡
Me too and other mental health stuff.
Me too. 9 weeks clean. And suffer from depression and social anxiety and being straight compounds everything I'm feeling that I've pushed down for nearly 20 years
This was fascinating all the way through. As the mother of a "recovered" or "best outcome" (socially and vocationally functional) son with autism, the remarks about the early treatment of very young children with that particular disorder were spot on. Thanks, Lex. Your own self-reflections were absolutely charming.
I do the same thing Lex with eye contact. When I'm trying to learn or think deeply while in front of someone, I look up or close my eyes. I have gotten pretty good at switching between them and have the humility to enjoy the oddness of it.
It's off-putting. Don't do it.
I personally prefer eye contact for communication and sensing engagement. However heavily rely on closing eyes or precise finger to thumb tapping to read faster by applying vowels left and sentence structure to each finger on right hand to cook through pages in research. It seems to be a highly efficient method personally. It's very interesting to hear how many folks have such varied approach to connection! 😁
I'm struggling with severe depression and I want to say that the section on depression was so accurate and well explained. This is an amazing resource for people to understand depression for themselves and/or others. I am so deeply grateful for this video.
This video has been a therapy in of itself.
@@EmersonPeters Im pulling for ya, hoping you get through this bout soon. We the world are waiting for ya at the end of the tunnel..
I recently just made my way out. This was my worst and longest battle yet but I made it. It's amazing because music is coming back to me organically, it's amazing. The will to just write this right now speaks volumes to my progress as compared to just a week ago. It's nice to my interests be interesting again. Be well yo and good luck.
As a person diagnosed Skitzoaffective, after a long time Bi-Polar 1 disorder... i look forward to the education I am about to receive.
How did you know you had this disorder ? Did you read about it, and recognize it in yourself, so you got help? Was the help a lot of talking or pills? Was the counseling helpful, if they aren't allowed to give advice or tell you anything?
I love these deep conversations you have, they really have you open your mind and think about topics mentioned in your conversations. I sometimes watch this with people and it will start deeper conversations , more fulfilling, and enlightening conversations based on topics you've dived into on your channel. I'm sure you couldn't possibly imagine the impact you have by just posting these in their raw form. But they inspire me to think deeper, more outside the box, to question everything and just step out of the every day flows. I feel like it's food for my brain. Anyways, I'm done rambling here. thank you Lex. I can't wait to see the thought provoking conversations you have planned for the future.
Best podcast on the internet
You sir, are like fresh breath. Both of you. Bringing it back down to earth. Into the minds of humans.
Thanks sir. Please interview Robert Sapolsky, if possible.
I have not read that poem but it describes what I finally found late In life. True meaningful love between two people. It is bliss.
can you elaborate? That poem to me is just a bunch of words put together. I can't understand it at all.
One thing i’ve been really thinking a lot about when it comes to the disease/disorder conversation is that so much about how we define them is not intrinsic to us as humans, but moreso the superficial societal constructs and confines we exist amongst. Oftentimes it seems to me that one’s ability to exist , function, and be productive with what we call “psychological disorders” is totally exacerbated by these modern thought systems - so much so that my conclusion is frequently that it is not the mind of the sufferer that is broken but the world itself, and the social/economic existence they are being forcibly shoehorned into.
Amen
Shaman…
turns out we do
in fact
live in a society
well said
Well said ty
Why don't we all have a person like this, just to have a chat to
You could only have to make an appointment.
I fall in the bipolar spectrum, sister and brother both are schizophrenic, it's been a tough long Rd being caretaker and patient.. I am very disturbed at Americas lack of empathy and support in our sick care system. I never give up on myself or my siblings I do fear the predatory system we live in. Housing financial rights etc..ty for this video and topic. ❤❤🙏🌌🌠
More power to you bro, inshallah u can overcome it, even in my case it's the same but for the parents
Kindness. Genuine directed attention to human basic needs. Patience. Empathy. Kindness and more kindness. Regardless the diagnosis, disease, disorder -
As a psychiatric nurse in acute and emergency settings…this is always the place to start.
Thank you for another excellent interview and listening experience.
I love how Lex humbles the person infront of him with his own humbleness while remaining open, interested and astounished like a child. This all while being dead serious.
I never sit through anything of such length, but this episode was the most fascinating, thought & emotion provoking one of seen from you. Both you and your guest were mesmerizing. Thank you.
Perfect timing. I'm starting a 3 hr drive in a bit.
Dive safe dude!
I'm going through one the darkest moments in my life, even before watching this podcast, I await with anticipation.
♥️
❤️
♥️
Be brave. It will pass
Thank you sir
Dear LEX FRIDMAN ,
I know that my words mean little but I will try to speak what is been on my mind (as you always do for us -your listeners)
I have listened today to this conversation with KARL DEISSEROTH in attempt to prepare for the interview with my Psichitrist next week.
Listening to this conversation and hundreds of hours of YOUR podcasts I suddenly realised that this is the BEST kind of TALKING PSICHOTHERAPY .
You give HOPE to us HOPELESS and WEIRD
people who suffer from Psichiatric
Disorder.
You give us COURAGE to use
ARTFULLY CONVERSATIONS on that deeper LEVEL ( as you do) with another HUMAN BEINGS to BETTER understand our own MINDS, get dipper insights of that horrible illness I have to live better quality of Life
and HELP others who also SUFFER in silence as I do.
"Knowing your own DARKNESS is the best METHOD to dealing with DARKNESS of other people "
LEX FRIDMAN
Thanks again for giving Me HOPE.
I personally think that this is the missing LINK which opens the doors for better FUTURE and less suffering on individual and collective level in this chaotic WORLD we all share this days.
Thak you for your UNIQUE VOICE, kindness , empathy and all the love you send our way!
Deeply APPRECIATE ❤
You mean a lot for me and other HUMAN BEINGS like ME!
Great timing. Thank you, Lex.
As an introvert, the eye contact situation is exactly the same with me. The impetus is revealed in the name. Introverts use the eyes to take information in whereas extroverts use them to reach out.
Can’t sleep here in Australia, time for a Lex chat to keep me company.
You too... Me as well. (awake in Aus too) Over last 3 mths I have come to love these long interviews and Lex's voice is always quite soothing.
Me too. Very awake. Late afternoon. I hope a kind, loving, and generous spirit finds you. tx
Fremantle WA.
10 months later, another Aussie in the early morn who can't sleep, the magic of u tube stitches up so much of the troubled threads of a long life.
Lex you are one of my inspirations to pick up guitar again, thank you! Your video on building a habit has helped immensely. I hope you will feature musical guests in the future; people like Dan Auerbach, Josh Homme, etc.
Sapolsky's one sentence definition of a major depression "it's a biochemical disorder with a genetic component with early experience influences where somebody can't appreciate sunsets." It is surprising that since humans can derive pleasure and satisfaction out of terrible experiences like dying of cancer, "what could possibly be worse than a disease whose defining symptom is the inability to feel pleasure"? Zizek big think- why be happy when you could be interesting?
“All generalizations are wrong”. Simple yet profound
Isn't this also a generalization though 😆
The delayed choice quantum eraser experiment really helped me realize, as somebody with social anxiety issues, that if I stop looking at the negative, the problem disappears. The only thing is, sometimes the problem is the other person. Somebody with no wisdom might say, "You can't go around blaming your problems on other", to which I would say, "No observations, mate".
15 min in, already enjoying the conversation. Thank you Lex
YES YES! This was such a pleasure listening to, especially after being introduced to optogenetics in my last neuroscience class. Thanks Lex
“I am overwhelmed by the lack of limit. Have you looked around? You can do whatever the hell you want. Nobody will remember you anyway. All of us will be dead one day. You can do anything.” This is such a freeing thought. Well said, Lex!
I quit medication two years ago but I feel it sneaking around (depression) I’m afraid I hate it
What meds you would recommend?
@@mat4042
I’m not a doctor by any means, you better go to psychiatry. Good luck
@@kathleenhandron3092 it’s not easy medication makes me numb, I can’t feel anything no joy or sadness
@@kathleenhandron3092 I'm not on any treatmant
"It's like trying to control fish by spraying them with water." Love your work Lex. X
That was a great metaphor.
Good Poetry is such a beautiful powerful thing , which instills deep emotions within human psyche making person open to love and care.
I’m a university student currently studying psychology. In a class last semester called “brain and behavior” we briefly learned about optogenetics, and it was described as a new technique in the field. Incredible that I’ve randomly stumbled across the man who’s been credited with pioneering this technology on a Lex Fridman podcast.
Loved this episode. Thanks to this, I’m now going to make sure I take a neuroscience class next semester.
Holy shit. The insight on autism was so beautiful. My daughter is suspected to be on the spectrum, which has lead to some introspection over my own status. Loved the conversation about it!
Great stuff isn't it.
Wow, Lex… your interviewing skills continually hit these podcasts completely out of the park. Your podcasts always surface an unusual level of introspective insight from your esteemed guests. These interviews are pure gold!
The "nihilist penguin" at 41:23, for those interested, is from Werner Herzog's 'Encounters at the End of the World' - an excellent documentary about the people that live and work in Antartica. Mostly societal misfits and outsiders seeking the abyss.
Omg can’t wait to watch this! I LOVED “Projections” 💗💗💗 I listened to it twice! Such a deep, rich book! Beautifully written too! It left an eternal mark in my psyche/Spirit. Also loved him on The Huberman Lab Podcast! He’s definitely a higher being among us. ✨✨✨ So excited for this one. Thank you! 💗 🧠🙌🏼
My brother is now 16years schizofrenic, in hospital from his 16years, taking meds that are very heavy....he never gonna have a normal life....tears.........
Incredibly sad to read this... Sorry to hear that and I hope for the best for you and your family during these tough times. I discovered my mom has schizophrenia. She unfortunately won't take her meds and keeps getting worse. I feel for all the people affected by this mental disorder.
Thank you for courage, thank you for integrity, thank you for wisdom, thank you for light, thank you for love. Thank you for being you Lex :)
It's amazing how productivity and focus can improve by several orders of magnitude when you learn how to put the limbic system and inner critic to sleep
Possibly my favorite. Both of you are such valuable humans. Thank you.
When Lex gets execited by poems: "Who are you? Have we met before somewhere? Who is that person behind there? I want to get there whatever it is...
Maybe that love is, the life long pursuit to get that person."
Wow! Loved this dialogue between two great thinkers. I left this conversation feeling uplifted, enlightened, and just thankful to be a part of the beautiful tapestry that is existence.
Top 3 Lex interview so far, really enjoyed this one absolutely fascinating!
Give us the top of your list It may be helpful Thanks in advanced
I worked with Deisseroths lab multiple times throughout the 2000's as optogenetics was becoming a mainstream viability. There's something similar about many of the greats like James Simon, Reed Hastings, Karl Deisseroth and many of the current nobel laureates at Stanford and why Karl will inevitably soon be one as well. Congratulations on your success and thank you Lex for well thought out questions and a brilliant story arc.
“Let the weirdness flourish”-Karl D. Thank you!
There is nothing like listening to the words of people who speak the things you think of.
It is like being in the presence of people who are made of your same being.
I am apparently witnessing schizophrenia first hand,and what , to me is the saddest part,is the limitations caused by lack of sufficient funding.Not enough doctors,not enough time…..
Sorry to hear about that 😔
Interesting.. and what are you witnessing personally if I may ask?
My beautiful kind selfless mother passed away 4 weeks ago. For the first time in my life I now know what depression feels like.
You’ll never be able to fully comprehend depression unless you’ve suffered from it. You can’t watch a lecture or podcast on depression and think you understand it- even one as insightful and brilliant as this one. But I will tell you this: depression is the worst thing that can happen to a person in this life, and it’s not even close. I suffered from severe depression and suicidal ideations for a decade and it was absolute hell
It was a very interesting talk Mr. Lex. I congratulate your lectures in general. They are long, but worth listening to. I liked this one in particular because it has dealt with an issue I have been thinking about, which is that much of insanity, even much of which is dealt with chemically, starts out as a misunderstanding between the individual and the society around the individual. Well this was in some way implied by Freud as I understand it, but I just think that it is interesting how our social interactions transform into a certain chemistry in the brain, that may end up either as a bad habit or the cure (as in therapy). Or what is the will if not a certain chemistry of the brain? This will being a changing thing upon the gaze of another.
On the topic of love, it's really an amazing experience that varies from person to person for myself. My love for my friends can sometimes cause confusion in my mind that I am in love with them, which isn't the case. There's certain toxic traits of myself that come out from both love of a friend and love of a mate.
A person within me, a person I don't like... The one who is selfish and wants them all to myself, the person who would die for them, the person who can be jealous of attention that I'm not given in return. That person isn't who I want to be, but hopelessly I become that person and end up hurting myself and others over.
I've also thought there was a very simple way to make the word LOVE an acronym. Lots Of Various Emotions. Because, that's really what love has been for me. An array of emotions that I can't control, an agent of chaos that has invaded a quiet mind and started a riot within me.
Excellent Podcast as always, Lex. 💚
3:03:44 NO FREAKING WAY. How had I not heard about this consciousness thought experiment until now??
He is completely out wrong though. If you apply the same stimulus to all your neurons they would get all scrambled up. They aren’t meant to receive just anything. Not to mention if they all receive input at once there is no more room left for activity that results in your consciousness.
@@Stierenkloot Thanks for your reply!
First of, I think it's just meant to be a thought experiment, indifferent of whether or not applying these stimuli is theoretically possible or not :)
But:
- I *do* think neurons are meant to receive something. Neurotransmitters, to be exact. These transmitters trigger action potentials, which can also be triggered using Optogenetics (which Karl Deisseroth does research on).
- From your answer, I derive that you see the natural interaction between neurons (which you call "activity") as the source of consciousness. So you would answer "no" to the question posed at 3:05:10, correct? In that case, consciousness wouldn't have its origin in the firing pattern of neurons, but in the synaptic gap, where neurons affect each other through neurotransmitters.
But why would *that* be where consciousness has its origin?
I don't mean to dismiss your reply. I'm just really curious about this mystery myself! 😊
@@samuelvilz consciousness is just our internal user interface to keep us alive. It’s obviously a result of our physical body. The brain being a part of that. But the brain wouldn’t be conscious without all the input of the rest of the body. Without input there’s nothing for your brain to do I think. That’s why I think AI won’t be human-like ever as well. We need our emotions and physical limitations to motivate us to do anything at all. So yeah I think the brain has dedicated spots to do dedicated things and it adds up to your consciousness. If you overwrite input into all those neurons then how could there be a consciousness left? Its physically being generated. Not some hocus pocus nonsense with souls and spirits and whatnot. If you have an orchestra and you force all the musicians to eat hot dogs in stead of playing their instruments then good job you forced input into all the parts that made up the orchestra but there won’t be any music
@@Stierenkloot I like your orchestra metaphor, but I think we have a different understanding of Karl's scenario:
If it was possible to play each musician like a marionette, and to make them apply exactly the same actions to the instruments as when they played a symphony: How would the resulting music not be equal to said symphony?
I'd say it would sound exactly the same.
And I agree to your dismissal of hocus pocus :D That's why I'm all the more curious where exactly you draw the line.
Also, you're the first person I deeply converse with about this topic! 😊 I'm glad you replied!
I would be interested to see a conversation between you and Dr. Richard Schwartz. Hearing you describe that internal negative voice makes me think of IFS. You would benefit greatly from looking at internal parts through this model! Great podcast!
"People can get into trouble when they think they're smarter than they are, I will say that." I see you Karl, I see you, well done sir.
I really love how you put the words of the poem on the screen, Thank you for that.
How beautiful can the world be when this interview is recorded on UA-cam! I will watch this at least three times in the next week. I am sure this will change your life; it has changed mine. I remember listening to Karl on the airplane and being fascinated with every word he said.
They should do sit-ups where the upper part of the abdomen is worked, with the legs raised and trying to touch the feet with the hands and its variants that work the upper part of the abdomen, they will see improvements quickly. That upper abdominal exercise will take away your depression and anxiety, it will also heal your mind..
Thanks for using your time and your gifts to bring me this cool knowledge.
I'm glad you finally had Oscar Isaac on the podcast, really would have loved to hear you ask about the psychology of the mind battle between him and James Mcavoy.
Great episode, very pleasant to listen to Karl with how calmly he lays out his thought processes. Also he looks like the scientific recreation that aliens might come up with in a few thousand years after finding Eric Weinstein's skull, so that's a plus.
Ha ha, I nearly spat my cup of tea over the computer when I read this :)
One contradiction I have is when he brought up the correlation of eating disorders in comparison with education and wage level. Diagnosed eating disorders are far more weighted on the female side. The attractive female makes far more money than the attractive male. Not a lot of thought was put into the analytical side of that statement. Meaning females have much more motivation to stay fit and attractive as opposed to males considering the employment situations they are put in.
@@colewalker1837 No he said Anorexia. Not eating disorders.
Saw Peter Attia’s podcast with him, been a fan ever since.
I don't know if Lex normally write back to message in comments since there are so many. I ask anyway: Hi Lex, hope you are well. I enjoyed the parts of reading, poetry, love and psychedelic. May I please ask if you can share the text of the poem with us? It was beautiful. Many thanks 😊 🙏
Poem is "two english poem' by borges, can be found on the Internet
The biggest problem in psychiatry today is not that those in need don't seek it, it's that those who seek it are hit with "sorry, we are not taking on new patients" answering machine message for all but the least experienced practitioners. There must be a better way to serve more patients. Let's get creative.
These are just great podcasts. Love learning about new disciplines. Food for the mind. Keep it up Lex!
The most deeply brilliant and intelligent people always seem to be the most humble.
What a poweful conversation! This guest, along with Andrew Haberman, and Lex's incredible mind- are contributing to the world in such moving and profound ways! ♡♡
I can't wait to sink my mind in Karl's book!
Oh my god I am freaking out. My two favourite people.... 3 hours... 🤭😁🥰 I loved listening to you both discuss Autism. I am an Autistic Psychotherapist, and felt you both described the experience of being Autistic very accurately. I would love to hear more from you both on this topic. Thank you for this episode! So exciting!
Hi @gemma, i have a 2 1/2 year old on the spectrum and would like to run an awareness/educational project for parents and kids. How can we connect?
Brilliant and Emotionally so deep, these two men
create a couple hours of making sense of
questions we have quietly asked ourselves.
Their intelligence compliments each other
equally. Thank You Lex.
Suicide is the second leading cause of death among our kids and young adults. Mental health is so important.
Thank you for giving us this opportunity to hear content like this!
finally something for my bipolar mind , thank you lex
How can one get a friend or relative to get help for manic behaviors and depression? They don't think anything is wrong.
@@dianakarina8080 What is "had to 302"?
Thank you for this interview......Your book, Dr. Deisseroth, is a classic. So beautifully written, each line is worth a re-read and I just don't want to get to the last page! You have touched my heart and soul and my tears started to flow on page one! Congratulations on every level!
Such a fascinating conversation. The post covid neurological function area was especially interesting. Curious to think that the virus or others could alter functioning of the brain in a possibly beneficial way. Would be very interested in hearing a neurobiologist who also has a virology focus talk on the potential of viruses leading to beneficial adaptations in various species, including humans. On a tangent, there is a really entertaining anime called Musaigen No Phantom World where a viral outbreak causes kids and teenagers to start seeing beings from another dimension/phantoms. The anime came out like three years before covid.
Interviews like this have helped me find myself allowing me to return to school the right way thank you so much lex hoping to one day shake your hand.. and karl i needed this interview thank you and god bless you