To those saying "just download QMK source and edit the code to compile your own firmware" are missing my point. Yes, I know that's possible. But I think a premium keyboard costing $355+ should have a little better experience than that. And even then, at the moment you still need to sign up to an external forum and PM a user there to request beta access to the firmware so you can edit it. Yes, it's all entirely doable. No, I'm still not thrilled with it.
As for the Windows key: Yep, there are _optional shortcuts_ that it enables that make having a Windows key a nice bonus! But does one truly _need_ a Windows key? That's what I meant by saying "no one needs it," heh. Personally I can easily go without it on the left-hand side of the board since there are no major system functions (that I know of anyway) that use the Windows key exclusively. And any shortcut it provides can frequently be performed using other key combos or using the mouse. The Fn key and the numbered function keys though? Now those I use far more often for my work every day, so my priority goes to them in terms of their placement on this particular keyboard. For my workflow, WinKey is an _optional extra_ here, so I'd rather remap it to another location on the board so I can better make use of the Fn key.
@@adamlowther8034 I actually did try that and it wasn't able to recognize the Model F's Fn key. Even if it worked I wouldn't want to use it that way, since that'd mean the software needs to be running every time I use the keyboard, and then I'd have to install and configure it again on any other computer I plug it in into. Not something any purchaser of this board should have to do, especially since the firmware allows internal remapping.
I remembered being intrigued by this, but the backing price was a bit of a turnoff. That and the fact it's a a tenkeyless board. When LGR said "five years ago or something", I wasn't thinking it was that long ago until he mentioned the year…
Very low production (I think they're made to order), HEAVY, the case is diecast metal and to my knowledge no one else are making keyboards this way... yeah it's going to be quite pricey.
@Corporeal Undead I have one, and love it. I have another on order and might pick up at least 2 or 3 more. I also have an original IBM F107 (the big brother of the F77 and F62 boards reproduced in this project) and wish he would have recreated that too because their prices are skyrocketing now. Very few clicky switches, old and new, compare at all to the mighty capacitive buckling spring, and the cases alone on these are wonderful. Most of the weight comes from the thick zinc case alone.
The only other keyboard as strong heavy as Model M i've used is obscure Logitech S510. That had a metal back plate and was quite a thin package. It was like a big blade, could use it as weapon.
I have a Model M at my front door instead of a baseball bat. Plausible deniability when the Police investigate a murdered intruder at your home. "I didn't know this was deadly, I code with it."
Someone may have said this already, but the holes on the back of the keyboard that you placed the rear cork feet over are actually where you can screw in rubber feet to give you a greater typing angle. Not the same as fold out feet of course, but it's something. The feet in question are available from the site, and the part numbers for them are also listed if you want to buy them elsewhere. Edit: also, the newer firmware is QMK. It should have the Model F firmware merged into the main build eventually, but the firmware creators are waiting on doing that until they've worked out any remaining kinks if memory serves. They swapped to QMK from XWhatsit's original firmware part way through, as the old firmware needed to be manually calibrated for every keyboard and even after that was done had ghost presses when the weather changed. The QMK firmware auto-calibrates on the fly, so all the users who tested it found it more reliable. Once the QMK firmware is merged into the main QMK branch, new users will no longer need the invite to make a new layout. And there are offline editing tools for the main branch, though the online configurator is much easier to use.
For that amount of money, should've came with VIA compatible firmware from the start. And when VIA firmware does come out, hopefully someone will then import that into Vial.
Agreed, especially when even entry level customs come with via support and this is about as custom as it gets. At least porting a board over to via isn’t all that difficult, especially if a qmk firmware already exists. Mechmerlin has a good video explaining the process step by step, it took me an afternoon to figure it all out so lgr could probably get it all working in around 45 minutes.
I've set up my F77 to work with VIA. There are some caveats though. VIA relies on holding down a key during the keyboard boot process to trigger an EEPROM wipe in case the EEPROM gets borked. This doesn't work on the F77 because the key calibration routine runs at boot, and holding a key down results in that key not registering, so you can't use that process to rescue yourself from a borked EEPROM. There are some other processes you can use, but they are non obvious (e.g. just flashing a different QMK firmware on to the board does not clear the portion of the EEPROM used by VIA). Making the F77 truly compatible with VIA has some speedbumps.
You're not paying for the firmware. You're paying for the build quality. This keyboard will last 30+ years, easily. I've got an original F107 from 1987. It works perfectly. Get that through your heads.
I just use the original xwhatsit firmware, it actually let's you tune everything and is probably best for people who can understand electronics a fair bit. Remember this board needs to calibrate the capacitance on boot, you can actually tune the sensitivity of the keys, but it's easy to mess up and end up with a board that double types etc. At stage I might go to qmk, but I'd miss the BIOS like aspect of the original firmware.
As someone who works in an office, I use the super key + others keys all the time. I would say Win + R and Win + L are the most common. So it gets used a lot in my daily life. There's lots of neat windows shortcut hidden there.
My Industrial Gray Model M and Industrial Gray F77 (just like yours) actually color match really well, just the texture is different (one's paint, one's cast into the plastic). Typing this on my Model F77, I've had it for about a year because I shipped before my keys were done (have plenty of extras). It's been a long journey, but this thing is an absolute unit. I am using the "Hudson HiFi Platinum Silicone Hemisphere Bumper, Non - Skid Isolation Feet with Adhesive - 20 Duro, 2" Hemisphere" as rear feet, to give me the lift angle equivalent to my Model F AT with the feet flipped up. You might already have something like that in your audio supplies.
Well it sounds like they got the hardware part down correctly, so likely all these issues will be resolved in time. Glad to hear this tech will live on.
It's not an alternative Windows key, sadly. It is specifically a start menu key. Just opens said start menu. Useful for that if you don't have an actual Windows key, but it can't be used for Windows key shortcut combinations.
@@LGRBlerbs Win+V has become pretty essential to my workflow. Win+Period is less essential, but still handy. I guess I could rebind em with a third-party program, but meh. Yeah, I guess put me in the "keep the Windows key" boat.
@@mikeey6804 I mean, the Model F _still has_ a Windows key... I'm not advocating for removing it, all I said is I want it in another location on the board since I use it less!
@@LGRBlerbs On Linux it's referred as MOD or Super and it's very essential especially on Window Manager environments. I believe it comes down to the Model F design limitations by missing such essential keys after all. It makes it a laptop keyboard experience that will never be able to replace your main keyboard.
Flashing your first QMK firmware can be challenging, indeed. But there are in fact neat offline solutions! Usually they are more flexible too! Hang in there, Clint!
I placed my order in May of 2017. Got mine without the keycaps last year and used it for a few months with grey keycaps from a loaner 103 key Unicomp. I finally got the keycaps a few weeks ago. Some issues with the Left Shift and Enter key. Still working out those kinks but the keyboard itself has been fabulous and takes me back to my youth. It was worth the very long wait!
The new model M still (sometimes) has blemishes on the back of the case where the posts and support structures are located on the inside of the shell but some original IBM made model m's have that too. My 1988 model M has similar blemishes on the back but it may have been less common with the old PVC cases than with the polycarbonate / ABS blend Unicomp uses. Regardless if it was also present on original Model Ms then it doesn't bother me much.
I have one manufactured in 2020 and I absolutely love it. I have 2 original model M's from 1989 and 1998, as well as a Model F and yet my 2020 is my fav. It's USB and I got one with the extra windows and context keys as well. No other keyboard comes close to how much I love that keyboard.
Can confirm, I just got mine a few months ago along with the New Model F. The Unicomp New Model M is an amazing value. Works perfect out of the box with no tinkering, amazing feel, sound. I'd say the best ~$100 I've ever spent on a keyboard. The New Model F by comparison feels maybe 10% better, but that's after 4-5x the cost, lots of tinkering, and I'm still working on fixing buzzing keys, a finnicky space bar, key bouncing issues, and little annoyances. In some ways, that makes me regret the purchase and kinda wished I'd just got a 2nd Unicomp for my other computer. I could get it for all my computers from here on out and be perfectly satisfied. The Model F is still an intriguing hobby project, but also a time-sink and full of headaches. If you want a great buckling spring keyboard that just works flawlessly out of the box, you can't be the new Unicomp Model M.
After contemplating for years, I finally pulled the trigger on this, ordered mine in beige with split shift and backspace. The price is intimidating for sure, but I can see that it was more then worth it (for me personally). Hopefully it doesn't take me quite as long of a wait, but I'm jut glad I got my foot in the door last minute. Thanks for giving that final push Clint.
As of this writing, April 20th, 2023, you can get one with a standard 104 key ANSI, or tenkeyless layout. They started offering them earlier this month.
Back in the 70s, my Dad would sometimes take me to work with him and they had a teletype machine of some sort. This video made me think of that. I don't remember it all that clearly but I do remember that it was Hefty with a capital HEFT. I think they also had something like these at their terminals. It was a parts department at a car dealership and they had quite a lot of really heavy computing equipment for the catalogue. Oh, that and the green and white tractor-feed printer paper convinced me that these folks really get it. It's just a shame it didn't quite work for Clint's particular needs. Good video as always. :)
The _new_ Unicomp New Model M is _really_ good. I've seen reviews of the older ones but the one I have (February 2021) has none of those issues and it feels and sounds _amazing._ Would 100% recommend it for someone who wants a classic/retro style keyboard. Tastes great with a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball 🖥️🖲️ I'd like to get a newly made Model F but this ain't quite it. I too need those function keys!
The new Model M still has the issue with some of them having blemishes on the back of the shell where structures are located on the inside. However I have seen this on original model Ms as well, my 1988 model M has long straight blemishes on the back where the ribs are located inside the shell. Maybe it was less common with the old PVC shells than with Unicomp's polycarbonate / ABS blend plastic but it was definitely present on some of them.
I hope for a modern layout but with that buckling springs. That would be awesome. Sure those vintage styles is nice but, hey.. we want best of both worlds!
waiting that long and getting shipped a bunch of disappointment really sucks. i use an original model m that was refurbished by a guy online, and converted internally to output usb c, so i know the struggles of finding the perfect old school feel.
That is almost the exact setup I ordered in January, except with the front-printed function keys. The lack of function keys is what held me back for a long time. Good tip on remapping that CTRL key. It’s one of the first things I’ll do. When I get it. Maybe this year.
I love (the idea of) this layout. I’ve been using a 65% keyboard for a few weeks and I don’t miss the function keys at all, but a num pad would be really nice.
Thanks for the review. However, I'm really glad I got a Topre Realforce 87U 55g a decade ago while I still could and it still functions like new. No clicky but none of the other issues either.
I'd have ordered one of those instantly if it was available in a standard 100% layout, the lack of an F key row as you mentioned is just too much of a turn off. For now I'm sticking with my Unicomp, their more recent keyboards are in my experience pretty damn good and I love typing on mine.
@Miivious if you mean to ask what a 100% keyboard is, it's the typical layout you see on most regular non-enthusiast keyboards that has the full F-key row, numpad and arrow and navigation keys. If yuu mean which one I have, when I wrote that comment I was using a Unicomp "Ultra Classic" keyboard, but since then I picked up a Keychron Q6.
I've been using a 122-key IBM Model M Terminal keyboard from 1987 as my daily driver for the last 10ish years thanks to Soarer's Keyboard Converter which runs on Teensy 2.0 (about $16). The keys are pretty easy to map with a simple text file that gets injected into the firmware file that you flash. The map file can even get more complicated than a 1:1 map if you want; for example, I've got my F13 and F14 keys set to toggle the keyboard between Qwerty and Dvorak modes. I love this keyboard and Soarer's Converter works perfectly for everything I'm doing, even gaming.
I think this video lacks some backstory and explanation as to why this keyboard is the way it is... These keyboards are modern reproductions of just two of the four models of IBM 4704 keyboards. They were originally produced for banking terminals and feature solid zinc cases. The capacitive buckling spring switches used are widely regarded to be some of the best ever produced in terms of feel, with a crisp actuation point and very smooth action. Some of the earliest examples have been in continuous operation since 1983. Yes.. almost 40 years of use and still going strong. If it does ever break, there are very few things that can not be fixed at home by anyone with a set of screwdrivers. This is the reason why people will pay $355+ for one of these, despite some inconveniences as to the layout. There were three other models in this line, one with 50 keys and ortholinear layout (a giant macropad), a 62 key qwerty layout (lacking the nav-block), and the 107 key layout, which features 10 function keys on the left and dedicated numpad. Of the four models of 4704, the 50 key layout is the rarest, followed by this layout, the 62 key layout, and the 107 key layout is the most common. On the open market today, 107 key models fetch upwards of $800. The original 77 key model, of which only a handful are known to exist, would probably sell for thousands of dollars. I own one of the 107 key models and one of the reproduction 77 key model. The key feel and sound is spot on with the new models. When purchasing the keyboard, you can opt for different layouts -- one of which features slightly smaller shift keys that allow the use of more keys, such as a dedicated Windows key or '~' key. Even after purchase, if you find yourself not liking the layout you chose, you can reconfigure the keyboard yourself (such as I have done). tl:dr; If you purchase one of these, you're not buying it for a couple years of use.. you're buying it to pass down to your grandkids.
Exactly, thank you. I'm a bit disappointed this was just a blerb video, because it's missing all this context and people in the comments are clearly super confused.
This needed to be said, but maybe Clint specifically made a Blerb about it because of its current firmware status, etc, and tends to swing back around later for a deeper dive.
Just noticed this video (somehow I was not subscribed to this channel, only your main one) - glad to see your impressions on this as I was definitely considering one of these at the time and only didn't pull the trigger because of price. I think I'd probably have most of the same concerns as you, and I honestly didn't even notice the lack of function keys until you pointed it out! I also totally forgot the AT Model F existed; I really need to get one of those someday, as they seem to be the closest thing to a Model F holy grail that combines that buttery typing feel with a reasonable layout. Too bad they're close to being unicorns on the used market (I don't think many of them were made before the Model M took over).
Oh, this thing supports QMK. Then it's pretty godly. I'm not a huge fan of that either so I see how it annoyed you, but you can do what you want for the most part once you figure it out. Basically, the online thing is used to create the layout and compile new firmware for the keyboard, and then you use the QMK tool thing that you install to flash it (you need a certain key combination to do it, that I think varies depending on the keyboard you have). I hope they make more models. I'm pretty interested in getting an ergo, so that would be nice. But the Kishsaver + a macro pad would be pretty good.
@@PJBonoVox What did they claim in this regard? These are exact reproductions of the IBM F62 and F77 keyboards, which are themselves basically hacked down from the IBM F107. In those days, the F keys were in their own block to the left of the alphanumeric cluster. If you chop the F keys and numpad off of the F107, you have an F77. If you chop the nav cluster and arrow keys off of the F77 you have the F62. These were originally terminal keyboards all meant to be used with very specific banking terminals running very specific software. QMK for these boards is in beta, otherwise changing the mapping with QMK flashed to the controller would be easier. I, for one, think Ellipse should have stuck with the original xwhatsit firmware until QMK was ready for a general release. xwhatsit has a dead simple mapping utility that literally takes seconds to configure the board however you like.
They're not removed. They are on a layer. Which makes them more accessible to use since you doesn't have to move your whole hand just to press them. Hence why 60%, HHKB layout and stuff are so popular among developers.
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m yeah im so confused, on the store page it even shows the mapping. the F keys are a fn layer on the numbers. right ctrl is a FN key. How did everyone get this impession that you cant use f keys?
@@cristiannicolae6309 The new Model M seems to have fixed the case flex mostly, but you are right about them being thin. Still, for USD100 it's a pretty good deal if typing is your main priority.
Love the design! It seems like a really nice and well-executed product, and while it carries the Model F name, it also has its own unique identity. I do agree with Clint on the firmware issues though. I don't exactly see why it has to be such a mess to access the firmware, but I do hope that access improves with time. Either way, this is exciting and a really cool and impressive product! The cost is a bit steep, but it's definitely a labor of love!
TKL is fine with me. But I've long since gone wireless on my set up. I use a locally sourced board, no branding, with BT functionality and use pandas. I find it incredibly hard to return to cabled periphs now.
Yeah, these were meant to be faithful reproductions of exceedingly rare Model F variants (that were only ever meant to be used with specific banking terminals) made to exact standards to the point that Ellipse literally spent years just trying to get a factory to meet IBM's original quality control standards for dye sumblimation of the legends on the keycaps. Regardless, this isn't like just tossing together some MX PCB design and crapping them out en masse. Because it is capacitive buckling spring, the plate assembly and PCB are curved (so that every cap can be the exact same shape, and can actually be swapped between rows on a whim), there are also no physical switch contacts at all. I would like a more ... mass market iteration as well, I doubt it is likely to ever happen, but these boards are a limited-time run, so I guess that comes down to whether or not Ellipse even ends up making any money on these to invest in such pipe dreams.
You can remap all the keys, I map the escape as function, then function tab for escape. Then you have all the function keys one handed easily. Also use split shift for second function key. Program all your special functions as second layer so you can just use two key combos. For extra elevation, use felt furniture pads on the rear, also makes it easier to slide on the desk by just lifting the front.
A 4kg keyboard. And that'd be why it costs $350. :) Frustrating though that for something that costs so much and has been in development for so long, it still almost seems like an early access product. Also "Control F This." *snicker*
You think they could do cost reduced plastic models sometime? I could see why they would, but also why they wouldn't. If people keep buying the metal ones for $350, then they'll keep making them. They'd have no incentive to make a less expensive version.
These things are basically being made because a bunch of engineers loved the original and wanted a replica. Seems about on par for anything run by greybeards. "If you can't figure it out why are you even here" sort of thing.
@@Dreams_Of_Lavender People want these because they're exact reproductions of very rare and desirable F variants designed specifically for the IBM 4704 display terminal, which was only used for niche banking applications. They specifically want the thick solid zinc cases and form factor/layout. If Ellipse dropped these and spent another few years designing a simplified/cheapened version and sold it for a little less, almost all of the people who would care would ask for the more expensive version back. You should know that he sells the cases on their own for only $100. They're not the most expensive component of a Model F keyboard. The PCB and plate assembly (consisting of both a barrel plate and backplate are all curved so that the caps can all be the same shape regardless of row, and the PCB is capacitive ... sort of like Topre, and Topre boards aren't cheap either. Then there's the fact that original F122s have been going for $600+ on Ebay, and F ATs have been going for at least $300-400, both of which come in plastic cases with less-than modern layouts, the new production F77 actually starts looking like a good deal by comparison. Now think about the fact that F122 and F AT are amongst the most common and affordable F variant boards, only the F XT sells for less. Good luck finding even the most common of the 4704 family for less than $800+ (F107) these days.
Technically I think this is an early access run. There's supposed to be a second run later, but it will be even more expensive iirc due to cost increases.
Oh man, I too ordered one like 5 years ago (F77 with aluminum case)! I still need to finish setting mine up actually, but it looks amazing. I've never had a Model F before, just a few IBM and Unicomp Model M models (which I love), and as good as they are I was even more excited to finally try a Model F. Admittedly I'm not as sure about the F77 layout vs the Model M (I wish there was one with Model F keys but Model M layout), but I'm willing to give it a shot for the Model F keys!
Considering I pay ~$200 for my Filcos, I'd gladly pay as much for a buckling spring 104 key layout. For $100 you can't even get a mechanical keyboard with MX-clones and normal layout nowadays. At that price you're paying for 17 RGB animation modes of a gaming product, and sometimes don't even get NKRO. And you're not getting a standard 104 key layout. First they took away the left Wit's just for buckling spring fetishists or successful yoindows key for some media combos (as a feature), then they "learned" and took the right one instead (so you can't lock the screen one-handed anymore), then half the keyboards switched from media keys being Fn+F4 to actual function keys being under Alt+Fn+notF4. Who is this crap for, really? OK, rand over. Back to the topic, aiming at $100 makes no sense in current market, even if it wasn't a super niche product. A price of $150 (making it $200 with customs and VAT) would be totally justified, I'd order one right now. For $200+import cost, I'd hesitate, maybe wait until someone sells theirs for cheaper. At $350 (even in plastic case!), I'm not even sure what market is it aimed at. It shouldn't become very collectible, so the only way to afford that is to be a successful youtuber like Clint, you can play with super expensive toy like this for a week, make a Blerb and recuperate the cost, hopefully :)
I believe the materials, tooling, and build quality alone mean that $50-100 is an entirely unfeasible price. $249 would be getting to my "ideal" for something like this, but even that's pushing it from what I gather about the process involved making them!
@@LGRBlerbs If they can't scale the production up then it probably makes sense to put this outrageous price on them. But if they could, I don't see why the version in a plastic boxy case would be more expensive to produce than a Filco. Most expensive part were the molds. They already have them (unless they're making every switch and key cap in some prototyping clay :)), now it's just a matter of making a PCB (other youtubers tell me I can get those for a few bucks) and putting in a case. Again: I'm talking plastic case, not this metal awesomeness (is it a pressed sheet with some coating or actually sintered steel?) And hey, since you had to fix two keys out of the box anyways, it could totally come as an entry level kit (switches wave soldered to the board, but you put springs and supports and caps yourself). I wouldn't mind if I could get one for $150 :)
The future is now, old man! Starting at the beginning of April 2023, they're offering Model F keyboards with a standard ANSI and tenkeyless layout option. They also come in a Classic Model M style case (except it's cast aluminum) or a slimmer design.
I would have ordered one without hesitation if I could get one with a standard layout. As a programmer I type a lot so I enjoy keyboard that are great to type on, but I also use my F keys, nav pad and num pad a lot. I use a Unicomp right now, which is the best keyboard I've ever had for the typing feel, but I can believe it gets better with an authentic model M or model F.
Painful price aside, I would be tempted if it had a modern layout plus this build quality and buckling springs. Otherwise, it's very neat but unjustifiable for me.
I understand the frustration with configuring the QMK firmware if you bought something without knowing about it. However it's totally worth the time to configure and gives you way more flexibility than most local software clients can. I use a preonic and the amount of features you can add to your keyboard is great. It's all open source so if you don't wish to use the online config tool then you can compile it locally and have it do whatever you wish.
a) you can order it with a numpad, it's even mentioned in the video b) you can get a function layout that's more usable c) this thing is cheaper then when the model f launched in 1981, but I do get why that price is discouraging
I can see the complaints on the layout, but setting up layers and changing the function hold to a toggle makes it significantly better. I currently use it with two layers: one with F keys and directions on the right numpad cluster w/ number row intact and another with them on the number row and the right cluster being a numpad. Instead of function hold I bound the blank key between right ctrl and alt to a toggle for it. It works a dream for playing DOS games where you control a character with the numpad and use F5/7 for Save/load respectively. Also if you flash the VIA firmware and follow the guide you can rebind anything just by loading the program up and changing it. It really works great and I personally do not have any qualms with it, especially after tuning the springs just right.
You are SOooooo to blame. A few months ago (nearly a year), I came across 2 model M keyboards at my workplace. One QWERTY, one AZERTY (I live in France). Some keys were missing, the cables were cut. I bought some keys as well as a cable without clips, but I was missing one or two of the keycaps like the delete/dot key on the numpad which seemed difficult to find online. Some keys were stuck, and one thing leading to another I ended up trashing the QWERTY one by removing the rivets on the back (DON'T DO THIS AT HOME IT'S A NO RETURN POINT !!!) For the AZERTY one, the most interesting one to me, it was a very nice model. It was a very firmly clicky one, nearly perfect. Except for one key which was in fact the main "ENTER" key. So you would admit that it was upsetting, and I tried to fix it. In fact, I ended up in pulling the spring too hard and damaging it. So my nearly perfect keyboard was junk... I was totally over these keyboards (all the spare parts were dumped into a bag and the bag was dumped in my garage), until I saw this video. I was thrilled again, and went to Ebay, where I bought an AZERTY model M for 120 euros. Yesterday I cleaned it, every key/stem of it, mounted everything back together again. With my spare parts, I had ABSOLUTELY no key missing, the cable still had the plastic clips/retainers on the sides, but after a few tests it felt like, even I took some precautions, there was some short-circuit inside it. The PCB was OK, the cable was OK (I swapped them with the spares I had), but the keyboard was faulty, even if it worked fine before I cleaned it (I tried my best to avoid pouring running water onto it, but it seems it wasn't enough). So I thought: Why don't you just bake it slowly in the kitchen oven? What could possibly go wrong????????????????????? I did put the temperature setpoint at 80°C (I let you do the °F conversion), but then I decided later that I could even change the oven mode to pulsed air, that would certainly be better for heat uniformity, right? And I guess that is when it went wrong. In fact the setpoint jumped to 210°C without me noticing it, and I have now a totally complete AZERTY keyboard which is entirely melted. I am not sharing the pictures because it is indecent. My advice for newcomers : don't even bother try to buy a vintage IBM keyboard. If you find a complete functioning one in a dump, it's OK, but fixing it or finding spare parts is just not worth it. You better buy a new mechanical one for the fraction of the price of the fix. And it will have the "Windows" key. I am totally over IBM keybords. However I still love your videos Clint!
You can actually configure the firmware offline, but you have to get into the whole setting up a build environment, learning to configure you're keymap in c, compile the firmware and flash it to your keyboard (I use QMK a lot, it's not actually that bad). The only way that I'm aware of to get a GUI keymap configurator would be to port the QMK configuration to VIA and the keyboard will have an offline GUI configurator.
Yeah, not the kind of experience I'd expect for something approaching $400. And even then you still have to sign up to a forum and PM someone to request beta access!
I didn't wind up buying one of these, but did buy an F122 battle cruiser and ordered all new springs from the Brand New Model F site to refurbish it. It feels just like a brand new keyboard with the new springs, and they only cost 50 cents each at the time I got them a few years ago (very early in the project.) Plus it has something very close to a modern layout, which is easily mappable with a Soarer's Converter!
i thought i “never used function keys” until i got a 65%... yeah fn+number is annoying compared to just pressing a f row key. Next keyboard will be 75% or TKL
I got a Huntsman mini, and I can't even use shortcuts like Ctrl+whatever I guess because it clashes with the rgb control shortcuts. I also miss the arrow keys a lot more than I thought I would. Next keeb will be a bigger layout for sure.
They are very close in sound to the original 4704 keyboards. The space bar sounds a bit more 'hollow' is the major difference. I've got an original F107 and one of these F77 reproductions.
When I went to college in September of 1988, a family friend gave me a fully-upgraded IBM-PC for free, including its awesome Model F keyboard, exactly like the one you showed with the extendable feet in the back. Got rid of it a long time ago, because it became incompatible with newer computers -- heck, even back then, you had to get an adapter to plug it into an AT-style computer, and forget about adapting it to a modern USB system today. I'm sure it could be done today, but back in the '90s when I got rid of it, there was no way to plug it into a then-modern computer. Plus it was just an old, used IBM keyboard - no one really appreciated how special those key-switches were. Wish I still had that thing.
The model F xt was 600 new in the 80's today would be 900-1000 dollars The F77 keyboard was based on the and older bank teller keyboard for commercial grade uses with commercial grade components where around a 1000 dollars. That is why they last & type the same after 30-40 years. So this is a steal at this price. Typing on my 1983 Model F xt right now. Better than any so called mx style switch. Once you type on one you will never want to type on anything else. If some how you find one cheap which is next to impossible but if you do you need a XT AT to USB Soarer's Converter it allows +Remapping +Macros +NKRO Support IBM Model F. Model M keyboards do not support NKRO which you need for gaming.
I use a Razer Huntsman Elite as my daily driver but wow I wish I had one of these as a second keyboard (since my desk doubles as a bed side media machine so two keyboard's and mice are better). Have the Huntsman as the desk Gaming keyboard and this one as the bedside keyboard. Yes, My desk is built around the side of the bed so I can sit at the desk, work and make content but then go to bed and use a small monitor and still be able to use the same PC, mostly for watching media or some bedtime gaming, it is also great for when people come over since they can see what I am doing.
I've considered getting one of the Model M remakes. I loved my IBM Model M back in the day. I was so sad that it was effectively obsoleted with Windows 95, since it didn't have a Windows key. I need to look at the reviews for the Unicomp M. Price is relatively reasonable. Update: Oh look, you have a video on the Unicomp M.
People have been gushing about the Mini M (a modern SSK reproduction, the first Unicomp has ever done) and the New Model M. If I remember right, Clint's is at least a few years old. Unicomp had been improving quality control even as far back as then, but I don't think they had retooled anything yet. The New Model M and Mini M are being manufactured on all new tooling, said by some to nearly match original/early IBM quality. There are differences regardless, Unicomp's rubber mat is entirely different, now being made of modern silicone. I'm not a big fan of the Model M to begin with, so I haven't felt any Unicomps at all myself. I do use a lot of ancient boards, in which case I use a USB foot pedal under my desk that I have mapped to the Windows key.
I'm typing on one right now. It's an improvement over any membrane (even a Model M membrane - got one of those too) keyboard, but it feels very cheap compared to original IBM Model M's. The keys are quite loose, the key click has a hollow, resonant sound, the case plastic flexes way too much if you press on it and the plastic feet look like they're gonna break. But still, it's pretty good for typing and it feels almost the same as my 90's Lexmark Model M.
Fortunately there's a 104-key model now and I've ordered one. I also have a 2018 Unicomp Ultra Classic which I'm typing on right now which has a bit of grit and inconsistency to it but thankfully since then they've apparently updated the tooling and the New Model M is apparently much better, but I'm not about to snatch that one up with my 104-key Model F on the way.
Have the same keyboard with Unicomp keys, love it, couldn't live without the F keys at home but it's my daily at work. Is it worth $350-$400? When original Model F AT's and 122's cost more, and have age related issues, yes. It's a novelty, but if that particular Model F feel is what you want, this is the best way to get it. Price/performance wise, the new Model M or Mini M from Unicomp win, perfect example of the 80/20 rule.
Agreed! Use it for app switching, but mostly for all kind of shortcuts like "screenshot", or just to quickly start a program by hitting "windows" plus a few letters for the name of the program, then "Enter". A very useful non-alphanumeric key
2 things: 1) I use the windows key all the time as a systems administrator, there are lots of shortcuts that utilize the windows key that speed things up like Win + E to open file explorer, Win + R to open the run dialog, Win + X to get a shortcut menu in place of the windows 10 start menu, etc. 2) For 355 dollars, I really feel like they could have had a detachable and coiled USB cable, but maybe that's just me
The ultra compact version does have a detachable cable. The normal version's still can be replaced, but you need to open the case. Agree that coiled would've been nice.
I get the thought process of remaking the F62 and F77 models, because they're basically the most rare model F keyboards. But I don't get why there wasn't a normal full size layout, or a F107 layout or something, on top of what they did. I would consider it with a layout that had function keys. And if there was an option for something like an F107 layout, then even better.
Cost cutting has made them less great than their ancestors used to be. This smaller Model F variant costs 3 times as much as a Model M from Unicomp. I own 2 Unicomps and both have developed issues over the 10 years I've had them. For the first one, I contacted Unicomp, described the issue and they said: must have been a liquid spill.
For me, the feel is OK but only registering (iirc) modifier keys + 2 others really kills it for me. I'd like to be able to game or do whatever (I don't want multiple keyboards on my desk) without stuck keys.
@@Hans-gb4mv I can't say that I had problems like with your Unicomps. I only own 1 and I don't use it for gaming so I don't have problems gaming. I just use it for regular typing and it's way better than modern keyboards. I mean the non mechanical keyboards. I know that there are gaming mechanical keyboards. I don't own any. Just the Model M Unicomp.
@@soupcan_97 You should buy a gaming mechanical keyboard. The Unicomp Model M isn't a gaming keyboard. You can even buy a mechanical feel gaming keyboard. The Rii Mechanical Feel gaming keyboards are good.. Cheap price at under $20 and pretty good! Check Amazon for Rii gaming keyboard.. (^_-)/
With it at least using QMK I hope it can at some point get ported to Via for on the fly layout editing. Via is such a game changer for custom keyboards that flashing QMK firmware files seems so ancient.
Oh wow, I'm a circa 1991 Model M user and I never realized that I could use CTRL+Escape to trigger the WinKey... thanks!
Oh dang, that was one of the first things I learned when upgrading to Windows 95!
Glad you're finally in on the fun 😁
Also, Shift+F10 brings up the context menu when something is selected. It's good when a two-button mouse isn't available.
and thats the true value of these retro computing videos - learning productivity tips that we missed along the way
@@mik4k6 or when the menu key itself isn't available...
I changed the caps-lock key to the win key, as I never use caps-lock
To those saying "just download QMK source and edit the code to compile your own firmware" are missing my point. Yes, I know that's possible. But I think a premium keyboard costing $355+ should have a little better experience than that.
And even then, at the moment you still need to sign up to an external forum and PM a user there to request beta access to the firmware so you can edit it. Yes, it's all entirely doable. No, I'm still not thrilled with it.
As for the Windows key: Yep, there are _optional shortcuts_ that it enables that make having a Windows key a nice bonus!
But does one truly _need_ a Windows key? That's what I meant by saying "no one needs it," heh. Personally I can easily go without it on the left-hand side of the board since there are no major system functions (that I know of anyway) that use the Windows key exclusively. And any shortcut it provides can frequently be performed using other key combos or using the mouse.
The Fn key and the numbered function keys though? Now those I use far more often for my work every day, so my priority goes to them in terms of their placement on this particular keyboard. For my workflow, WinKey is an _optional extra_ here, so I'd rather remap it to another location on the board so I can better make use of the Fn key.
@@LGRBlerbs Win-Shft-S is the only thing i use it for all day other than opening the start menu
@@LGRBlerbs You should try using AutoHotkey to reassign your keys. I had to use it on my Ducky keyboard as the macros weren't working on it
@@adamlowther8034 I actually did try that and it wasn't able to recognize the Model F's Fn key.
Even if it worked I wouldn't want to use it that way, since that'd mean the software needs to be running every time I use the keyboard, and then I'd have to install and configure it again on any other computer I plug it in into. Not something any purchaser of this board should have to do, especially since the firmware allows internal remapping.
@@LGRBlerbs I completely understand. I had the same issue with the Fn key but luckily enough my keyboard has physical switches on the underside.
I remembered being intrigued by this, but the backing price was a bit of a turnoff. That and the fact it's a a tenkeyless board. When LGR said "five years ago or something", I wasn't thinking it was that long ago until he mentioned the year…
What was the buy in price for one?
5 years ago? So, 2019?
@@yeetleslaw8529 1989
I prefer tenkeyless boards (since my desk space is small), but the lack of function keys is a dealbreaker to me.
Very low production (I think they're made to order), HEAVY, the case is diecast metal and to my knowledge no one else are making keyboards this way... yeah it's going to be quite pricey.
Maybe they saw who was ordering it and they gave you the first S/N cause they knew it was the best advertising they would ever get!
That worked pretty well, didn't it?
They were probably like "Holy crap, that's LGR. Send him the first one!!!"
No probably, they did! The comment pinned I believe
@Corporeal Undead I have one, and love it. I have another on order and might pick up at least 2 or 3 more. I also have an original IBM F107 (the big brother of the F77 and F62 boards reproduced in this project) and wish he would have recreated that too because their prices are skyrocketing now.
Very few clicky switches, old and new, compare at all to the mighty capacitive buckling spring, and the cases alone on these are wonderful. Most of the weight comes from the thick zinc case alone.
"Starting at $355".
Fun fact kids.. if, back in the day, you hit your brother around the back of the head with the IBM models... they hurt!
If you can remember being hit in the head by a model M keyboard, you weren't hit in the head by a model M keyboard
Can kinda confirm. I unfortunately have first hand experience of having a model M land on my bare foot...
@@DaveF. 🤣🤣🤣
The only other keyboard as strong heavy as Model M i've used is obscure Logitech S510. That had a metal back plate and was quite a thin package. It was like a big blade, could use it as weapon.
I have a Model M at my front door instead of a baseball bat.
Plausible deniability when the Police investigate a murdered intruder at your home. "I didn't know this was deadly, I code with it."
Nice of the captions to confuse the squeaking of the opening box as "applause"
Someone may have said this already, but the holes on the back of the keyboard that you placed the rear cork feet over are actually where you can screw in rubber feet to give you a greater typing angle. Not the same as fold out feet of course, but it's something. The feet in question are available from the site, and the part numbers for them are also listed if you want to buy them elsewhere.
Edit: also, the newer firmware is QMK. It should have the Model F firmware merged into the main build eventually, but the firmware creators are waiting on doing that until they've worked out any remaining kinks if memory serves. They swapped to QMK from XWhatsit's original firmware part way through, as the old firmware needed to be manually calibrated for every keyboard and even after that was done had ghost presses when the weather changed. The QMK firmware auto-calibrates on the fly, so all the users who tested it found it more reliable. Once the QMK firmware is merged into the main QMK branch, new users will no longer need the invite to make a new layout. And there are offline editing tools for the main branch, though the online configurator is much easier to use.
It’s weird to see lgr use modern tech like his iPad 😂
For that amount of money, should've came with VIA compatible firmware from the start. And when VIA firmware does come out, hopefully someone will then import that into Vial.
Agreed, especially when even entry level customs come with via support and this is about as custom as it gets. At least porting a board over to via isn’t all that difficult, especially if a qmk firmware already exists. Mechmerlin has a good video explaining the process step by step, it took me an afternoon to figure it all out so lgr could probably get it all working in around 45 minutes.
I've set up my F77 to work with VIA. There are some caveats though. VIA relies on holding down a key during the keyboard boot process to trigger an EEPROM wipe in case the EEPROM gets borked. This doesn't work on the F77 because the key calibration routine runs at boot, and holding a key down results in that key not registering, so you can't use that process to rescue yourself from a borked EEPROM. There are some other processes you can use, but they are non obvious (e.g. just flashing a different QMK firmware on to the board does not clear the portion of the EEPROM used by VIA). Making the F77 truly compatible with VIA has some speedbumps.
You're not paying for the firmware. You're paying for the build quality. This keyboard will last 30+ years, easily. I've got an original F107 from 1987. It works perfectly. Get that through your heads.
I just use the original xwhatsit firmware, it actually let's you tune everything and is probably best for people who can understand electronics a fair bit. Remember this board needs to calibrate the capacitance on boot, you can actually tune the sensitivity of the keys, but it's easy to mess up and end up with a board that double types etc. At stage I might go to qmk, but I'd miss the BIOS like aspect of the original firmware.
@@ChileVuela Yeah, hence why it’s such a disappointment that the flawed firmware holds it back. Get that through your head.
As someone who works in an office, I use the super key + others keys all the time. I would say Win + R and Win + L are the most common. So it gets used a lot in my daily life. There's lots of neat windows shortcut hidden there.
I'm going to change your life with the only windows feature I love. Win+v
Thanks for being a part of this, Clint.
My Industrial Gray Model M and Industrial Gray F77 (just like yours) actually color match really well, just the texture is different (one's paint, one's cast into the plastic).
Typing this on my Model F77, I've had it for about a year because I shipped before my keys were done (have plenty of extras). It's been a long journey, but this thing is an absolute unit.
I am using the "Hudson HiFi Platinum Silicone Hemisphere Bumper, Non - Skid Isolation Feet with Adhesive - 20 Duro, 2" Hemisphere" as rear feet, to give me the lift angle equivalent to my Model F AT with the feet flipped up. You might already have something like that in your audio supplies.
I thought this was Chyrosran22 before I opened the video. That thumbnail :P
I gotta get my model F from a PC XT back into my rotation. A lot of the switches are kinda broken, tho.
Time for a restoration project?
sometimes you just have to reset the spring properly.
Well it sounds like they got the hardware part down correctly, so likely all these issues will be resolved in time. Glad to hear this tech will live on.
Yeah, modern software expects modern keyboard layouts (sometimes specifically the US layout). We need the modern layout with the old build quality.
I had no idea the Control+Escape was an alternative Windows key... Could have used that info 25 years ago! ;)
Honestly I'm surprised more people didn't stumble into that by accident like myself.
It's not an alternative Windows key, sadly. It is specifically a start menu key. Just opens said start menu. Useful for that if you don't have an actual Windows key, but it can't be used for Windows key shortcut combinations.
I believe this originates from OS/2 and was kept in windows as a legacy thing.
@@Temunic that is right! I am with model M and can not use their windows key combinations, I even do not know them at all :)
And control+shift +escape will bring up task manger ! No idea when they added thst functionality tho.
12:28: "Nobody needs a Windows key" whoa whoa whoa... You don't [WIN][E] or [WIN][R] or [WIN][L] or [WIN][D]? whaaaaaaaaaaaaat
I'm not saying that I don't.
I'm saying that I don't _need_ to. It's a bonus, not a necessity for me.
@@LGRBlerbs Win+V has become pretty essential to my workflow. Win+Period is less essential, but still handy.
I guess I could rebind em with a third-party program, but meh.
Yeah, I guess put me in the "keep the Windows key" boat.
@@mikeey6804 I mean, the Model F _still has_ a Windows key... I'm not advocating for removing it, all I said is I want it in another location on the board since I use it less!
@@LGRBlerbs Oh thank goodness, I guess I can stop hovering over the unsubscribe and thumbs down buttons now lol j/k
@@LGRBlerbs On Linux it's referred as MOD or Super and it's very essential especially on Window Manager environments. I believe it comes down to the Model F design limitations by missing such essential keys after all. It makes it a laptop keyboard experience that will never be able to replace your main keyboard.
Oh!! The dot-matrix packing list is such a nice touch, hahaha. Evidence toward the company's attention to detail. Very nice!
I'm always amazed how your "blerbs" are 18 minutes long and Adrian's Digital Basement's "mini mail calls" can take an hour and a half.
I ordered one back in December 2019, and this video is only getting me more excited to get it soon.
I just got my "New model M" it feels amazing to me.
We appreciate your honesty.
Flashing your first QMK firmware can be challenging, indeed. But there are in fact neat offline solutions! Usually they are more flexible too! Hang in there, Clint!
I placed my order in May of 2017. Got mine without the keycaps last year and used it for a few months with grey keycaps from a loaner 103 key Unicomp. I finally got the keycaps a few weeks ago. Some issues with the Left Shift and Enter key. Still working out those kinks but the keyboard itself has been fabulous and takes me back to my youth. It was worth the very long wait!
If Clint is saying something looks like an IBM box from back then, I believe him.
You're certainly very passionate about keyboards. I applaud that, even if I can't understand it. Great vid!
The New Model M is a really significant improvement over earlier Unicomps. It's worth checking out.
The new model M still (sometimes) has blemishes on the back of the case where the posts and support structures are located on the inside of the shell but some original IBM made model m's have that too. My 1988 model M has similar blemishes on the back but it may have been less common with the old PVC cases than with the polycarbonate / ABS blend Unicomp uses. Regardless if it was also present on original Model Ms then it doesn't bother me much.
I have one manufactured in 2020 and I absolutely love it. I have 2 original model M's from 1989 and 1998, as well as a Model F and yet my 2020 is my fav. It's USB and I got one with the extra windows and context keys as well. No other keyboard comes close to how much I love that keyboard.
Can confirm, I just got mine a few months ago along with the New Model F. The Unicomp New Model M is an amazing value. Works perfect out of the box with no tinkering, amazing feel, sound. I'd say the best ~$100 I've ever spent on a keyboard. The New Model F by comparison feels maybe 10% better, but that's after 4-5x the cost, lots of tinkering, and I'm still working on fixing buzzing keys, a finnicky space bar, key bouncing issues, and little annoyances. In some ways, that makes me regret the purchase and kinda wished I'd just got a 2nd Unicomp for my other computer. I could get it for all my computers from here on out and be perfectly satisfied. The Model F is still an intriguing hobby project, but also a time-sink and full of headaches. If you want a great buckling spring keyboard that just works flawlessly out of the box, you can't be the new Unicomp Model M.
where can you buy a new model M ?
@@javaguy5783 From Unicomp (just look them up). They're made of ex IBM employees who bought the rights to the Model M production line.
I've never been a big keyboard-fan or anything but oh wow does this one ever look perfectly satisfying in every way
“It’s ass kicking time” got to love it!
Still waiting on mine. A few years ago, I jumped on this, and I wanted the keycaps as well. Happy to see this review here!
13:30 I lol'd when the default set was GMK Vaporwave.
-typed on GMK Vaporwave
After contemplating for years, I finally pulled the trigger on this, ordered mine in beige with split shift and backspace. The price is intimidating for sure, but I can see that it was more then worth it (for me personally). Hopefully it doesn't take me quite as long of a wait, but I'm jut glad I got my foot in the door last minute. Thanks for giving that final push Clint.
I would say something about the price, but I just looked to my right and saw the Amiga 500 with ACA500+ and a ACA1221LC in a 3D printed case attached.
As of this writing, April 20th, 2023, you can get one with a standard 104 key ANSI, or tenkeyless layout. They started offering them earlier this month.
I think the world needs several hours of typing sounds on that thing.
Back in the 70s, my Dad would sometimes take me to work with him and they had a teletype machine of some sort. This video made me think of that. I don't remember it all that clearly but I do remember that it was Hefty with a capital HEFT.
I think they also had something like these at their terminals. It was a parts department at a car dealership and they had quite a lot of really heavy computing equipment for the catalogue.
Oh, that and the green and white tractor-feed printer paper convinced me that these folks really get it. It's just a shame it didn't quite work for Clint's particular needs.
Good video as always. :)
The _new_ Unicomp New Model M is _really_ good. I've seen reviews of the older ones but the one I have (February 2021) has none of those issues and it feels and sounds _amazing._ Would 100% recommend it for someone who wants a classic/retro style keyboard. Tastes great with a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball 🖥️🖲️
I'd like to get a newly made Model F but this ain't quite it. I too need those function keys!
I just got a new Unicomp New Model manufactured November 2021. I second everything you are saying, I am in love with this quality board!
Weird. I've had a Unicomp since 2009 and love it. Maybe they improved it further. I'd get the F model if it was full size.
I hope so, I own 3 IBM Model-M's and 2 (older) Unicomp's. The unicomps look the same, but the feel, sound, flex, everything is much worse.
The new Model M still has the issue with some of them having blemishes on the back of the shell where structures are located on the inside. However I have seen this on original model Ms as well, my 1988 model M has long straight blemishes on the back where the ribs are located inside the shell. Maybe it was less common with the old PVC shells than with Unicomp's polycarbonate / ABS blend plastic but it was definitely present on some of them.
I hope for a modern layout but with that buckling springs. That would be awesome.
Sure those vintage styles is nice but, hey.. we want best of both worlds!
waiting that long and getting shipped a bunch of disappointment really sucks. i use an original model m that was refurbished by a guy online, and converted internally to output usb c, so i know the struggles of finding the perfect old school feel.
That is almost the exact setup I ordered in January, except with the front-printed function keys. The lack of function keys is what held me back for a long time. Good tip on remapping that CTRL key. It’s one of the first things I’ll do. When I get it. Maybe this year.
I love (the idea of) this layout. I’ve been using a 65% keyboard for a few weeks and I don’t miss the function keys at all, but a num pad would be really nice.
Nice that you got yours! Been waiting years for mine to show up! 4 years and counting!
I mean it's super neat but imagine if any company back in those days said "give us the money and in 5 years you might get a product that matters now"
Thanks for the review. However, I'm really glad I got a Topre Realforce 87U 55g a decade ago while I still could and it still functions like new. No clicky but none of the other issues either.
I'd have ordered one of those instantly if it was available in a standard 100% layout, the lack of an F key row as you mentioned is just too much of a turn off. For now I'm sticking with my Unicomp, their more recent keyboards are in my experience pretty damn good and I love typing on mine.
my thoughts exactly. I need my f keys...
@Miivious if you mean to ask what a 100% keyboard is, it's the typical layout you see on most regular non-enthusiast keyboards that has the full F-key row, numpad and arrow and navigation keys.
If yuu mean which one I have, when I wrote that comment I was using a Unicomp "Ultra Classic" keyboard, but since then I picked up a Keychron Q6.
I've been using a 122-key IBM Model M Terminal keyboard from 1987 as my daily driver for the last 10ish years thanks to Soarer's Keyboard Converter which runs on Teensy 2.0 (about $16). The keys are pretty easy to map with a simple text file that gets injected into the firmware file that you flash. The map file can even get more complicated than a 1:1 map if you want; for example, I've got my F13 and F14 keys set to toggle the keyboard between Qwerty and Dvorak modes. I love this keyboard and Soarer's Converter works perfectly for everything I'm doing, even gaming.
I think this video lacks some backstory and explanation as to why this keyboard is the way it is... These keyboards are modern reproductions of just two of the four models of IBM 4704 keyboards. They were originally produced for banking terminals and feature solid zinc cases. The capacitive buckling spring switches used are widely regarded to be some of the best ever produced in terms of feel, with a crisp actuation point and very smooth action. Some of the earliest examples have been in continuous operation since 1983. Yes.. almost 40 years of use and still going strong. If it does ever break, there are very few things that can not be fixed at home by anyone with a set of screwdrivers. This is the reason why people will pay $355+ for one of these, despite some inconveniences as to the layout.
There were three other models in this line, one with 50 keys and ortholinear layout (a giant macropad), a 62 key qwerty layout (lacking the nav-block), and the 107 key layout, which features 10 function keys on the left and dedicated numpad. Of the four models of 4704, the 50 key layout is the rarest, followed by this layout, the 62 key layout, and the 107 key layout is the most common. On the open market today, 107 key models fetch upwards of $800. The original 77 key model, of which only a handful are known to exist, would probably sell for thousands of dollars.
I own one of the 107 key models and one of the reproduction 77 key model. The key feel and sound is spot on with the new models. When purchasing the keyboard, you can opt for different layouts -- one of which features slightly smaller shift keys that allow the use of more keys, such as a dedicated Windows key or '~' key. Even after purchase, if you find yourself not liking the layout you chose, you can reconfigure the keyboard yourself (such as I have done).
tl:dr; If you purchase one of these, you're not buying it for a couple years of use.. you're buying it to pass down to your grandkids.
Exactly, thank you. I'm a bit disappointed this was just a blerb video, because it's missing all this context and people in the comments are clearly super confused.
This needed to be said, but maybe Clint specifically made a Blerb about it because of its current firmware status, etc, and tends to swing back around later for a deeper dive.
Just noticed this video (somehow I was not subscribed to this channel, only your main one) - glad to see your impressions on this as I was definitely considering one of these at the time and only didn't pull the trigger because of price. I think I'd probably have most of the same concerns as you, and I honestly didn't even notice the lack of function keys until you pointed it out! I also totally forgot the AT Model F existed; I really need to get one of those someday, as they seem to be the closest thing to a Model F holy grail that combines that buttery typing feel with a reasonable layout. Too bad they're close to being unicorns on the used market (I don't think many of them were made before the Model M took over).
i'm mostly an ALPS guy but daaayum i'm salivating all over my desk right now..
Oh, this thing supports QMK. Then it's pretty godly. I'm not a huge fan of that either so I see how it annoyed you, but you can do what you want for the most part once you figure it out. Basically, the online thing is used to create the layout and compile new firmware for the keyboard, and then you use the QMK tool thing that you install to flash it (you need a certain key combination to do it, that I think varies depending on the keyboard you have). I hope they make more models. I'm pretty interested in getting an ergo, so that would be nice. But the Kishsaver + a macro pad would be pretty good.
Keyboard companies: "lets remove all the function keys nobody uses those"
Every software program: "are you sure about that"
Yeah, damn shame. Lovely keyboard but jesus that is not as ready for the modern world as they claim. Waste of money.
new model f122 when
@@PJBonoVox What did they claim in this regard? These are exact reproductions of the IBM F62 and F77 keyboards, which are themselves basically hacked down from the IBM F107. In those days, the F keys were in their own block to the left of the alphanumeric cluster. If you chop the F keys and numpad off of the F107, you have an F77. If you chop the nav cluster and arrow keys off of the F77 you have the F62.
These were originally terminal keyboards all meant to be used with very specific banking terminals running very specific software.
QMK for these boards is in beta, otherwise changing the mapping with QMK flashed to the controller would be easier. I, for one, think Ellipse should have stuck with the original xwhatsit firmware until QMK was ready for a general release. xwhatsit has a dead simple mapping utility that literally takes seconds to configure the board however you like.
They're not removed. They are on a layer. Which makes them more accessible to use since you doesn't have to move your whole hand just to press them. Hence why 60%, HHKB layout and stuff are so popular among developers.
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m yeah im so confused, on the store page it even shows the mapping. the F keys are a fn layer on the numbers. right ctrl is a FN key. How did everyone get this impession that you cant use f keys?
Hope you guys are making a Model M soon. Can't wait to buy a new Model M that's well built and feels as good as the original.
Bit late, but a company called unicomp bought the moulds for the Model M and make new ones with USB.
@@jb-br8bf i know, but at least the Classic models are very badly built. The new ones seem to be better, but the case is still thin and flimsy.
@@cristiannicolae6309 The new Model M seems to have fixed the case flex mostly, but you are right about them being thin. Still, for USD100 it's a pretty good deal if typing is your main priority.
Love the design! It seems like a really nice and well-executed product, and while it carries the Model F name, it also has its own unique identity. I do agree with Clint on the firmware issues though. I don't exactly see why it has to be such a mess to access the firmware, but I do hope that access improves with time. Either way, this is exciting and a really cool and impressive product! The cost is a bit steep, but it's definitely a labor of love!
TKL is fine with me. But I've long since gone wireless on my set up.
I use a locally sourced board, no branding, with BT functionality and use pandas. I find it incredibly hard to return to cabled periphs now.
Why this is not available as a regular full-size keyboard is beyond me.
Yep. Big miss.
i mean no model f was ever made as a regular full size. It would be cool but it might be missing the point of this project
Yeah, these were meant to be faithful reproductions of exceedingly rare Model F variants (that were only ever meant to be used with specific banking terminals) made to exact standards to the point that Ellipse literally spent years just trying to get a factory to meet IBM's original quality control standards for dye sumblimation of the legends on the keycaps.
Regardless, this isn't like just tossing together some MX PCB design and crapping them out en masse. Because it is capacitive buckling spring, the plate assembly and PCB are curved (so that every cap can be the exact same shape, and can actually be swapped between rows on a whim), there are also no physical switch contacts at all.
I would like a more ... mass market iteration as well, I doubt it is likely to ever happen, but these boards are a limited-time run, so I guess that comes down to whether or not Ellipse even ends up making any money on these to invest in such pipe dreams.
A friend of mine showed me a Model F a while ago and I just remember being amazed that this 30 year old keyboard felt so damn good.
Next Blerb: the new IBM mouse from 1980s
New old stock IBM System/360.
I would probably buy a "classic"-style USB mouse, bonus points if it comes with a mouse pad
@@shadowflash705 Good luck with that! :D
okay but I'd totally be down for a modern 2.4hz recreation of an 80s IBM mouse. Also with a scroll wheel, ideally.
I'll also be interested to try my Unicomp SSK when it ships this month. Early beta testers are saying it's more rigid than the usual Unicomp fare.
Huh... A full sized 101 key version of that would be nice... :)
You can remap all the keys, I map the escape as function, then function tab for escape. Then you have all the function keys one handed easily. Also use split shift for second function key.
Program all your special functions as second layer so you can just use two key combos.
For extra elevation, use felt furniture pads on the rear, also makes it easier to slide on the desk by just lifting the front.
A 4kg keyboard. And that'd be why it costs $350. :) Frustrating though that for something that costs so much and has been in development for so long, it still almost seems like an early access product.
Also "Control F This." *snicker*
You think they could do cost reduced plastic models sometime? I could see why they would, but also why they wouldn't. If people keep buying the metal ones for $350, then they'll keep making them. They'd have no incentive to make a less expensive version.
These things are basically being made because a bunch of engineers loved the original and wanted a replica. Seems about on par for anything run by greybeards. "If you can't figure it out why are you even here" sort of thing.
@@Dreams_Of_Lavender People want these because they're exact reproductions of very rare and desirable F variants designed specifically for the IBM 4704 display terminal, which was only used for niche banking applications. They specifically want the thick solid zinc cases and form factor/layout.
If Ellipse dropped these and spent another few years designing a simplified/cheapened version and sold it for a little less, almost all of the people who would care would ask for the more expensive version back.
You should know that he sells the cases on their own for only $100. They're not the most expensive component of a Model F keyboard. The PCB and plate assembly (consisting of both a barrel plate and backplate are all curved so that the caps can all be the same shape regardless of row, and the PCB is capacitive ... sort of like Topre, and Topre boards aren't cheap either.
Then there's the fact that original F122s have been going for $600+ on Ebay, and F ATs have been going for at least $300-400, both of which come in plastic cases with less-than modern layouts, the new production F77 actually starts looking like a good deal by comparison. Now think about the fact that F122 and F AT are amongst the most common and affordable F variant boards, only the F XT sells for less. Good luck finding even the most common of the 4704 family for less than $800+ (F107) these days.
Technically I think this is an early access run. There's supposed to be a second run later, but it will be even more expensive iirc due to cost increases.
Oh man, I too ordered one like 5 years ago (F77 with aluminum case)! I still need to finish setting mine up actually, but it looks amazing. I've never had a Model F before, just a few IBM and Unicomp Model M models (which I love), and as good as they are I was even more excited to finally try a Model F. Admittedly I'm not as sure about the F77 layout vs the Model M (I wish there was one with Model F keys but Model M layout), but I'm willing to give it a shot for the Model F keys!
$50-$100 for a full-size layout, and I'd buy one, for sure.
Considering I pay ~$200 for my Filcos, I'd gladly pay as much for a buckling spring 104 key layout.
For $100 you can't even get a mechanical keyboard with MX-clones and normal layout nowadays. At that price you're paying for 17 RGB animation modes of a gaming product, and sometimes don't even get NKRO.
And you're not getting a standard 104 key layout. First they took away the left Wit's just for buckling spring fetishists or successful yoindows key for some media combos (as a feature), then they "learned" and took the right one instead (so you can't lock the screen one-handed anymore), then half the keyboards switched from media keys being Fn+F4 to actual function keys being under Alt+Fn+notF4. Who is this crap for, really? OK, rand over.
Back to the topic, aiming at $100 makes no sense in current market, even if it wasn't a super niche product. A price of $150 (making it $200 with customs and VAT) would be totally justified, I'd order one right now. For $200+import cost, I'd hesitate, maybe wait until someone sells theirs for cheaper. At $350 (even in plastic case!), I'm not even sure what market is it aimed at. It shouldn't become very collectible, so the only way to afford that is to be a successful youtuber like Clint, you can play with super expensive toy like this for a week, make a Blerb and recuperate the cost, hopefully :)
I believe the materials, tooling, and build quality alone mean that $50-100 is an entirely unfeasible price.
$249 would be getting to my "ideal" for something like this, but even that's pushing it from what I gather about the process involved making them!
@@LGRBlerbs If they can't scale the production up then it probably makes sense to put this outrageous price on them. But if they could, I don't see why the version in a plastic boxy case would be more expensive to produce than a Filco.
Most expensive part were the molds. They already have them (unless they're making every switch and key cap in some prototyping clay :)), now it's just a matter of making a PCB (other youtubers tell me I can get those for a few bucks) and putting in a case. Again: I'm talking plastic case, not this metal awesomeness (is it a pressed sheet with some coating or actually sintered steel?)
And hey, since you had to fix two keys out of the box anyways, it could totally come as an entry level kit (switches wave soldered to the board, but you put springs and supports and caps yourself). I wouldn't mind if I could get one for $150 :)
I'm so excited to get mine.... Sometime... Really not sure when.
But boy am I excited
I’d 110% buy one if they offer(ed) one with the Model M layout (and a few media keys).
Still a absolutely fantastic keyboard don’t get me wrong :)
The future is now, old man! Starting at the beginning of April 2023, they're offering Model F keyboards with a standard ANSI and tenkeyless layout option. They also come in a Classic Model M style case (except it's cast aluminum) or a slimmer design.
I would have ordered one without hesitation if I could get one with a standard layout. As a programmer I type a lot so I enjoy keyboard that are great to type on, but I also use my F keys, nav pad and num pad a lot. I use a Unicomp right now, which is the best keyboard I've ever had for the typing feel, but I can believe it gets better with an authentic model M or model F.
It doesn't lack function keys. They're combined with the number row and activated with the fn key.
Painful price aside, I would be tempted if it had a modern layout plus this build quality and buckling springs. Otherwise, it's very neat but unjustifiable for me.
The build quality is completely terrible. Every single one comes out of the box needing to have the keys taken off and springs repositioned.
@@kyle8952 That happens in shipment, common problem with bucking spring keyboards since forever.
I understand the frustration with configuring the QMK firmware if you bought something without knowing about it. However it's totally worth the time to configure and gives you way more flexibility than most local software clients can.
I use a preonic and the amount of features you can add to your keyboard is great. It's all open source so if you don't wish to use the online config tool then you can compile it locally and have it do whatever you wish.
The lack of the numpad and function keys is a deal breaker to me, moreso at that price.
a) you can order it with a numpad, it's even mentioned in the video
b) you can get a function layout that's more usable
c) this thing is cheaper then when the model f launched in 1981, but I do get why that price is discouraging
I can see the complaints on the layout, but setting up layers and changing the function hold to a toggle makes it significantly better. I currently use it with two layers: one with F keys and directions on the right numpad cluster w/ number row intact and another with them on the number row and the right cluster being a numpad. Instead of function hold I bound the blank key between right ctrl and alt to a toggle for it. It works a dream for playing DOS games where you control a character with the numpad and use F5/7 for Save/load respectively. Also if you flash the VIA firmware and follow the guide you can rebind anything just by loading the program up and changing it. It really works great and I personally do not have any qualms with it, especially after tuning the springs just right.
Unicomp is now releasing a tenkeyless keyboard (aka SSK), fashioned after the Model M SSK. Might make for another good video.
Yep, I've got one of those on order as well
@@LGRBlerbs did you know you can convert an M to an F? It's not easy... But can be done
@@cheater00 a group are working on a drop in replacement module for the M to make it a F
@@floof5359 if you read the forum thread you'll notice me talking in it
fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me
You are SOooooo to blame. A few months ago (nearly a year), I came across 2 model M keyboards at my workplace. One QWERTY, one AZERTY (I live in France). Some keys were missing, the cables were cut. I bought some keys as well as a cable without clips, but I was missing one or two of the keycaps like the delete/dot key on the numpad which seemed difficult to find online.
Some keys were stuck, and one thing leading to another I ended up trashing the QWERTY one by removing the rivets on the back (DON'T DO THIS AT HOME IT'S A NO RETURN POINT !!!)
For the AZERTY one, the most interesting one to me, it was a very nice model. It was a very firmly clicky one, nearly perfect. Except for one key which was in fact the main "ENTER" key. So you would admit that it was upsetting, and I tried to fix it. In fact, I ended up in pulling the spring too hard and damaging it. So my nearly perfect keyboard was junk...
I was totally over these keyboards (all the spare parts were dumped into a bag and the bag was dumped in my garage), until I saw this video. I was thrilled again, and went to Ebay, where I bought an AZERTY model M for 120 euros.
Yesterday I cleaned it, every key/stem of it, mounted everything back together again. With my spare parts, I had ABSOLUTELY no key missing, the cable still had the plastic clips/retainers on the sides, but after a few tests it felt like, even I took some precautions, there was some short-circuit inside it. The PCB was OK, the cable was OK (I swapped them with the spares I had), but the keyboard was faulty, even if it worked fine before I cleaned it (I tried my best to avoid pouring running water onto it, but it seems it wasn't enough).
So I thought:
Why don't you just bake it slowly in the kitchen oven? What could possibly go wrong?????????????????????
I did put the temperature setpoint at 80°C (I let you do the °F conversion), but then I decided later that I could even change the oven mode to pulsed air, that would certainly be better for heat uniformity, right? And I guess that is when it went wrong. In fact the setpoint jumped to 210°C without me noticing it, and I have now a totally complete AZERTY keyboard which is entirely melted. I am not sharing the pictures because it is indecent.
My advice for newcomers : don't even bother try to buy a vintage IBM keyboard. If you find a complete functioning one in a dump, it's OK, but fixing it or finding spare parts is just not worth it. You better buy a new mechanical one for the fraction of the price of the fix. And it will have the "Windows" key.
I am totally over IBM keybords. However I still love your videos Clint!
You can actually configure the firmware offline, but you have to get into the whole setting up a build environment, learning to configure you're keymap in c, compile the firmware and flash it to your keyboard (I use QMK a lot, it's not actually that bad). The only way that I'm aware of to get a GUI keymap configurator would be to port the QMK configuration to VIA and the keyboard will have an offline GUI configurator.
Yeah, not the kind of experience I'd expect for something approaching $400. And even then you still have to sign up to a forum and PM someone to request beta access!
Looking forward to receiving mine.
The lack of actual function key row is a deal killer for me. :-/
I didn't wind up buying one of these, but did buy an F122 battle cruiser and ordered all new springs from the Brand New Model F site to refurbish it. It feels just like a brand new keyboard with the new springs, and they only cost 50 cents each at the time I got them a few years ago (very early in the project.) Plus it has something very close to a modern layout, which is easily mappable with a Soarer's Converter!
i thought i “never used function keys” until i got a 65%... yeah fn+number is annoying compared to just pressing a f row key. Next keyboard will be 75% or TKL
I got a Huntsman mini, and I can't even use shortcuts like Ctrl+whatever I guess because it clashes with the rgb control shortcuts. I also miss the arrow keys a lot more than I thought I would. Next keeb will be a bigger layout for sure.
Awesome! can't wait to get mine with the key caps. Hopefully it'll be soon.
Num lcok without a numeric keypad? What is the point of that?
The right part of the keyboard can be switched between nav cluster and different numpad layouts.
I first saw this keyboard in your video on loading PC programs from real to real tape, I really like it. It kind of reminds me of a TRS-80.
Maybe it's me, but in the video this Model F actually sounds like what a new IBM keyboard did back when they were new.
They are very close in sound to the original 4704 keyboards. The space bar sounds a bit more 'hollow' is the major difference. I've got an original F107 and one of these F77 reproductions.
When I went to college in September of 1988, a family friend gave me a fully-upgraded IBM-PC for free, including its awesome Model F keyboard, exactly like the one you showed with the extendable feet in the back. Got rid of it a long time ago, because it became incompatible with newer computers -- heck, even back then, you had to get an adapter to plug it into an AT-style computer, and forget about adapting it to a modern USB system today. I'm sure it could be done today, but back in the '90s when I got rid of it, there was no way to plug it into a then-modern computer. Plus it was just an old, used IBM keyboard - no one really appreciated how special those key-switches were. Wish I still had that thing.
For $355, I'd expect it to read my mind and do the typing for me!
The model F xt was 600 new in the 80's today would be 900-1000 dollars The F77 keyboard was based on the and older bank teller keyboard for commercial grade uses with commercial grade components where around a 1000 dollars. That is why they last & type the same after 30-40 years. So this is a steal at this price. Typing on my 1983 Model F xt right now. Better than any so called mx style switch. Once you type on one you will never want to type on anything else. If some how you find one cheap which is next to impossible but if you do you need a XT AT to USB Soarer's Converter it allows +Remapping +Macros +NKRO Support IBM Model F. Model M keyboards do not support NKRO which you need for gaming.
@@digitaltactics9234 No matter its history or intention to it, for majority of people 400$+ is absolutely ridiculous
I'd love one of these but with a modern layout with numpad.
$355+; documentation is garbage
Yup, that figures.
I use a Razer Huntsman Elite as my daily driver but wow I wish I had one of these as a second keyboard (since my desk doubles as a bed side media machine so two keyboard's and mice are better).
Have the Huntsman as the desk Gaming keyboard and this one as the bedside keyboard.
Yes, My desk is built around the side of the bed so I can sit at the desk, work and make content but then go to bed and use a small monitor and still be able to use the same PC, mostly for watching media or some bedtime gaming, it is also great for when people come over since they can see what I am doing.
Currently I spend more time in the bed than the desk so the Huntsman is my main keyboard while the desk has a second Cooler Master keyboard.
I've considered getting one of the Model M remakes. I loved my IBM Model M back in the day. I was so sad that it was effectively obsoleted with Windows 95, since it didn't have a Windows key. I need to look at the reviews for the Unicomp M. Price is relatively reasonable. Update: Oh look, you have a video on the Unicomp M.
People have been gushing about the Mini M (a modern SSK reproduction, the first Unicomp has ever done) and the New Model M. If I remember right, Clint's is at least a few years old. Unicomp had been improving quality control even as far back as then, but I don't think they had retooled anything yet. The New Model M and Mini M are being manufactured on all new tooling, said by some to nearly match original/early IBM quality.
There are differences regardless, Unicomp's rubber mat is entirely different, now being made of modern silicone.
I'm not a big fan of the Model M to begin with, so I haven't felt any Unicomps at all myself.
I do use a lot of ancient boards, in which case I use a USB foot pedal under my desk that I have mapped to the Windows key.
@@xb0xisbetter Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'll investigate the M's a bit more. The USB pedal for the Windows Key is a cool idea.
I'm typing on one right now. It's an improvement over any membrane (even a Model M membrane - got one of those too) keyboard, but it feels very cheap compared to original IBM Model M's. The keys are quite loose, the key click has a hollow, resonant sound, the case plastic flexes way too much if you press on it and the plastic feet look like they're gonna break. But still, it's pretty good for typing and it feels almost the same as my 90's Lexmark Model M.
@@cristiannicolae6309 Is it a Mini M, a New Model M, or an older/unretooled variant?
@@xb0xisbetter It's a Classic 101 Model M (UNI041A) bought last year in August.
Fortunately there's a 104-key model now and I've ordered one. I also have a 2018 Unicomp Ultra Classic which I'm typing on right now which has a bit of grit and inconsistency to it but thankfully since then they've apparently updated the tooling and the New Model M is apparently much better, but I'm not about to snatch that one up with my 104-key Model F on the way.
If I had made this, I would've called it a hardware refresh... the model F5.
But it doesn’t have any f-keys.
Have the same keyboard with Unicomp keys, love it, couldn't live without the F keys at home but it's my daily at work. Is it worth $350-$400? When original Model F AT's and 122's cost more, and have age related issues, yes. It's a novelty, but if that particular Model F feel is what you want, this is the best way to get it. Price/performance wise, the new Model M or Mini M from Unicomp win, perfect example of the 80/20 rule.
"Who needs a Windows key"
That's my most used non-alphanumeric key :(
what do you use it for?
@@Slash0mega shortcuts
Agreed! Use it for app switching, but mostly for all kind of shortcuts like "screenshot", or just to quickly start a program by hitting "windows" plus a few letters for the name of the program, then "Enter".
A very useful non-alphanumeric key
@@jeremiefaucher-goulet3365 nerd
@@llab3903 Yes I am, proudly so. I can't sacrifice productivity for a nicer feeling keyboard.
2 things:
1) I use the windows key all the time as a systems administrator, there are lots of shortcuts that utilize the windows key that speed things up like Win + E to open file explorer, Win + R to open the run dialog, Win + X to get a shortcut menu in place of the windows 10 start menu, etc.
2) For 355 dollars, I really feel like they could have had a detachable and coiled USB cable, but maybe that's just me
The ultra compact version does have a detachable cable. The normal version's still can be replaced, but you need to open the case. Agree that coiled would've been nice.
Tried going to the site for this keyboard about 25 minutes after the video went live and it's down.
IT'S THE LGR BUMP! Lmao
maybe they realized they fucked up
@@DecibelAlex That's not it at all. These boards were selling well to their demographic long before this video ever went live.
I get the thought process of remaking the F62 and F77 models, because they're basically the most rare model F keyboards. But I don't get why there wasn't a normal full size layout, or a F107 layout or something, on top of what they did.
I would consider it with a layout that had function keys. And if there was an option for something like an F107 layout, then even better.
What's wrong with the Unicomp Model M? I own one and it's great..
Cost cutting has made them less great than their ancestors used to be. This smaller Model F variant costs 3 times as much as a Model M from Unicomp. I own 2 Unicomps and both have developed issues over the 10 years I've had them. For the first one, I contacted Unicomp, described the issue and they said: must have been a liquid spill.
For me, the feel is OK but only registering (iirc) modifier keys + 2 others really kills it for me. I'd like to be able to game or do whatever (I don't want multiple keyboards on my desk) without stuck keys.
@@Hans-gb4mv I can't say that I had problems like with your Unicomps. I only own 1 and I don't use it for gaming so I don't have problems gaming. I just use it for regular typing and it's way better than modern keyboards. I mean the non mechanical keyboards. I know that there are gaming mechanical keyboards. I don't own any. Just the Model M Unicomp.
@@soupcan_97 You should buy a gaming mechanical keyboard. The Unicomp Model M isn't a gaming keyboard. You can even buy a mechanical feel gaming keyboard. The Rii Mechanical Feel gaming keyboards are good.. Cheap price at under $20 and pretty good! Check Amazon for Rii gaming keyboard.. (^_-)/
With it at least using QMK I hope it can at some point get ported to Via for on the fly layout editing. Via is such a game changer for custom keyboards that flashing QMK firmware files seems so ancient.
Dude, nice, just in time for lunch.
I had a "Kishsaver" (55-key model F; banking industry) at one point but alas ergonomic boards are now a must for me.