One additional advantage of a ground mount in the North is the ability to clear snow easily. Although snow is often shed from panels without help, sometimes a mild day after snowfall will melt and then freeze a thin layer on the panel's surface which will keep the snow from shedding for several cold but sunny days that follow. Clearing the snow is easily done on the ground; not so much on roof.
We live in Massachusetts and I wish that I researched this when we installed our system in 2015. I am contemplating relocating our roof panels to a ground mount for all the reasons that you mentioned. The other reason is that we have several doors on the same side as our panels. You have two choices when it comes to panel snow removal, remove it yourself or let it happen on it's own. I learned quickly that, many times on it's own, it is an avalanche. The panels release all the snow at one time. You don't want to be beneath it when it does and an event like a door closing is just what it needs to get started. The snow that falls, whether on it's own or by removing, compacts and makes removing it difficult. Not fun if you want to keep your exits cleared in case of an emergency. Also researching a adjustable ground mount system that can change the panel angle for maximum seasonal production.
Great video. Ground mount advantages: 1. Cleaning the panels. 2. Cooler operation. 3. Access for maintenance. 4. Roof repairs replacement decoupled from solar install. 5. Roof and structure will be degraded by solar install. It may be to code and it may not be catestrophic but it is degraded. 6. Tilt adjustment is possible. 7 Bifacial panels are an option. I'm on 7 years of solar. My GRAPE SOLAR panels are delaminationg so probably going to have to replace one or more. They do need cleaning if you want your moneyworth out of them.
Thank you for the summary of ground versus roof mount collectors. My rustic home is in the woods and would not look as rustic with solar panels on it besides too much shade. If you’re going to put solar collectors on your roof it’s best the roof is new since most asphalt roofs only last at least 20 years and it must be done right otherwise you have leaks. A metal roof would be so much better since you should not have to put holes through it for the collector mounts. On a ground mount system the collectors operate cooler and produce more electricity and should last longer. They are easy to clean and brush off snow, maintain and replace if necessary. Also, the shade underneath the collectors can be used for event space or park a vehicle depending on the design. It’s best to use bifacial solar collectors. They collect electrical energy in front and from reflected light from the back. The solar panels have the silicone wafers between two pieces of glass perhaps making a more robust collector. It’s best for the ground mount system to have a winch that will adjust the angle of the solar collectors throughout the seasons, optimizing energy collection. I’m located in an area that has a lot of cloudy weather in the winter time and can use the light reflected from the snow for more energy using the bi facial solar collectors. I do have to dig a trench 600 feet for high voltage DC to the Tesla power wall 3 losing 2%.
You do realize that driving those big lag bolts into rafters and especially trusses (usually made of 2 x 4's) you weaken them, you also just made a whole lot of holes (with paths for the water to run down) through not only the shingles but the water and vapor barriers of the roof. The accumulation of heat under the panels affects both the roof and the panels themselves, reducing power from the panels, and aging both prematurely and making replacement of the roof (including the decking underneath) that much more difficult. The decking because of those big water holes that may not show leaks in the house, but will cause water spread, rot, and delamination. Some consideration should be given to the house itself, and not just panel placement.
In cold climates, mounting panels on the roof has many disadvantages. When it snows in my area the roof is often covered in snow for days, & so are the solar panels. I personally don't like drilling 30 or 40 holes in a roof. And fire departments don't like spraying water on top of burning buildings that are generating electricity at the same time. A ground based system can also benefit from snow on the ground. The panels are accessible for snow removal, & the snow on the ground can multiply the amount of light reflected onto the panels as well. And a disconnect is much more accessible for a fire department. I have the perfect away from the street, south facing roof for a solar panel installation, but I would never put them there for the above reasons.
I want to mention that with a ground-mount solar array it is so much easier to perform maintenance - repair or replace; keep it clear of snow; clean the panels; etc. Not to mention that should you need to replace your roof (with roof mounted panels) you will need to have the panels removed; stored; and remounted all at an additional cost. And finally, if you ask me, roof mounted panels just plain look UGLY.
My main concern w/a ground mount is theft. This might sound crazy but some years ago in NC people were getting their AC units (the compressor/hot side) stolen. The thief needed only a few minutes to cut the lines, tubings and hoist it off. Granted stealing solar panels would require more time but it something that should be considered.
Once you have the space its better to do a ground mount system. Overtime the advantages outweighs the disadvantages. You can keep your panel clear of snow and debris. As he said with 8% greater efficiency overtime you will get back more from you system even if you spend more upfront. Efficiency is most important aspect of having solar.
Too many houses have roofs that are not appropriately constructed for solar panels. Manufacturers should come up with better ways to mount panels on the ground or on poles! What could be easier than the powerfield energy portable ballast containers?! Cheap, quick, and reliable.
If you have the space in your yard for a ground mount and permission to use that space (HOA & building departments if applicable) and not serious obstacles to trenching (gas lines, bedrock, concrete, asphalt or water) to your main electrical panel, thats what you should do no matter what kind of roof you have.
Not to mention you pay $15,000 on the installation on a roof. ground system you might spend 5 grand total, even if you rent a trenching machine and by Conduit. And you don't need all the permits when you put a ground-based system in you have to pay all kinds of money to the town to this to that to the inspector if you put it on your house
@@caseykelso1 whether you need a permit or not is determined by the jurisdiction and utility. My business installs in multiple states. While some are easier to deal with than others (FL, TX, UT & SC especially) they all have difficult counties and/or cities and/or utilities within them. HOAs suck nearly everywhere. As far as costs. There’s more material, labor & equipment needed to build a ground mount however I feel as though its far less costly to maintain. If you dont have a compatible metal or tile roof with newish underlayment, you’ll definitely be grateful you went on the ground when its time to replace the shingles. Also if youre alive and still in the same home when its time to replace the system, the ground mount will certainly be paying for itseld
Yes, I would look to Federal Law then State Law as Feds trump State and local low including HOAs, State Law trumps County and City which trump any HOA rules. FTC and other Fed agencies encourage and supplement solar and wind so most likely you are able to install on your property. You may need to run the plan by a "looks committee" at an HOA but legally they are not able to block or enforce old rules that Federal law voids. For example, Fed and State Fair Housing Act laws allow for group homes for seniors or disable persons in even the high-end HOAs, same with Satellite dishes somewhere on a house, rain collection systems, etc. etc.
A ground-mount seems safer. Cleaning the panels, doing any panel maintenance, system expansion, panel testing, etc. is easier on the ground. Imagine if one of the panels in the middle of your roof goes bad. You have to remove panels to create a path to replace it; might not have to do that with a ground-mount system. This next item may not be a huge deal since a roof can last 15-25 years, but you'd have to remove the solar panels to redo the roof, or locate a water leak. Getting on the roof for any reason is dangerous. The only reason I would get a roof-mounted system is if I didn't have enough land space to put in a ground-mount system.
I can't use either option. Too many trees surround the house, and an 8' fence blocks the only spot in the south-facing back yard where there is room for a ground mount. I looked into a tall ground mount system, but the only ones I could find had to be ordered direct from China, and they were pretty expensive, and I couldn't be sure how sturdy they might be. So I am seriously considering having a lean-to shed built in that spot which would solve a few problems, some having nothing to do with solar. It would give us much-needed storage space, and we should be able to set up a covered parking area for our two cars, including a level 2 EV charger. Between the shed and the parking cover there should be more than enough square footage for the 24 or so panels that my little house needs. This would all be facing south, at a level that is high enough to overcome the fence issue. And we should be able to set the pitch at the appropriate angle. Wish me luck.
I thought ground mount systems were supposed to be less expensive since the installation is much simpler. Also what kind of losses can one expect over the run of the cable from the ground mount system to the house?
Ground mount is more expensive due to the cost of concrete work and building the metal frame structure. We generally size the wires to allow no more then 3% voltage drop from ground mount to house
On large solar farms, GM is easier because most of them use a machine driven pile to support the rack. At your home, if you are handi, you can build your own support structure. You can use adjustable racks. You can clean the panels, dirt and snow.
Thank you for this video. Having dealt with multiple roof leaks over the years, and now on my 3rd roof, putting holes in the roof is like pulling teeth. And knowing that the seal under the mount may only be warranted for 10 years on a 30 year shingle warranty (which may be voided by this installation?), I would opt for a ground mount system. Looking long term, everything you do for a house is an investment and the less you or anyone is on a roof, the better. Thanks again!
Good information and well presented. Check out red poppy ranch and his on the roof unit that he will be adding 3 more of while removing his panels from the ground. lol
Hi Josh. We are still working on your project. There is a slight delay in processing new projects using Enphase IQ8. We will let you know as soon as the project moves into production.
@@SolarSurge awesome thanks for the reply. I've been getting conflicting information as far as the tax credit. Do you know if the system has to be installed to qualify?
I’m really surprised the factor of roof size and orientation didn’t not make it into the talking points. Ground mount has the capacity to collect a significant amount more of sunlight as long as you have some extra land..25 acres or so.
I would never install a solar array over a 3 tab roof. When and not if it's time to replace a 3 tab rooof who is going to accept the liability of removing and reinstalling the solar array. Additionally, how do you clean the moss off the roof behind the solar array without removing the panels. Stand seam metal roofs are the way to go!
Good question. Most solar installers will offer to remove/replace the solar panels to allow roof replacement. If your roof is nearing its end of life, the solar company may offer a new roof as part of the solar installation.
I am looking for ground mount array, have the dirt and do not want to deal with a roof mount nor anyone I spoke likes having to climb roof to troubleshoot or repair. What ground mounted array hardware systems have you reviewed? I am looking for reviews of ground mounted array racks. Also you may want to review/look at the PV ballasted "Powerfield" brand of solar arrays synthetic material buckets that anyone can install, level the ground, line them up and fill with sand and gravel to weight them down, mount your panels. They are about 8 inches off the ground in the front and 4 feet in the rear? Not really adjustable, but easy to set up. A true DIY, at about $65/bucket. I think they told me two per panel assuming you are using a large panel.
I recommend the Everest Ground Mounting System. It can be assembled using standard tools and equipment and none of the individual pieces are larger than 10ft. So you can literally put the whole kit in the back of a pickup truck.
ground mounts dont always require concrete pillars, they can uses helical piles/posts that are engineered to be equally strong as concrete ballasted poles
There are mounting brackets that are especially designed for cement and clay tile roofs. Although it may seem complex, we have some great engineers who have figured a solution to this challenge.
A solar system attached on top of the roof is two times the price of putting it on the grounds because you got to pay the installers 12 to $15,000 to install your $9,000 solar system on your roof so think about it if the labor is 65% more than the actual system ...put it on the ground and save five grand. It's a no-brainer this guy won't tell you that part of it will he. Because he has an in with the installers probably get to kickback
One additional advantage of a ground mount in the North is the ability to clear snow easily. Although snow is often shed from panels without help, sometimes a mild day after snowfall will melt and then freeze a thin layer on the panel's surface which will keep the snow from shedding for several cold but sunny days that follow.
Clearing the snow is easily done on the ground; not so much on roof.
We live in Massachusetts and I wish that I researched this when we installed our system in 2015. I am contemplating relocating our roof panels to a ground mount for all the reasons that you mentioned. The other reason is that we have several doors on the same side as our panels. You have two choices when it comes to panel snow removal, remove it yourself or let it happen on it's own. I learned quickly that, many times on it's own, it is an avalanche. The panels release all the snow at one time. You don't want to be beneath it when it does and an event like a door closing is just what it needs to get started. The snow that falls, whether on it's own or by removing, compacts and makes removing it difficult. Not fun if you want to keep your exits cleared in case of an emergency.
Also researching a adjustable ground mount system that can change the panel angle for maximum seasonal production.
Great video. Ground mount advantages: 1. Cleaning the panels. 2. Cooler operation. 3. Access for maintenance. 4. Roof repairs replacement decoupled from solar install. 5. Roof and structure will be degraded by solar install. It may be to code and it may not be catestrophic but it is degraded. 6. Tilt adjustment is possible. 7 Bifacial panels are an option. I'm on 7 years of solar. My GRAPE SOLAR panels are delaminationg so probably going to have to replace one or more. They do need cleaning if you want your moneyworth out of them.
Thank you for the summary of ground versus roof mount collectors. My rustic home is in the woods and would not look as rustic with solar panels on it besides too much shade. If you’re going to put solar collectors on your roof it’s best the roof is new since most asphalt roofs only last at least 20 years and it must be done right otherwise you have leaks. A metal roof would be so much better since you should not have to put holes through it for the collector mounts. On a ground mount system the collectors operate cooler and produce more electricity and should last longer. They are easy to clean and brush off snow, maintain and replace if necessary. Also, the shade underneath the collectors can be used for event space or park a vehicle depending on the design. It’s best to use bifacial solar collectors. They collect electrical energy in front and from reflected light from the back. The solar panels have the silicone wafers between two pieces of glass perhaps making a more robust collector. It’s best for the ground mount system to have a winch that will adjust the angle of the solar collectors throughout the seasons, optimizing energy collection. I’m located in an area that has a lot of cloudy weather in the winter time and can use the light reflected from the snow for more energy using the bi facial solar collectors. I do have to dig a trench 600 feet for high voltage DC to the Tesla power wall 3 losing 2%.
Thank You Everybody for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.. Peace Shalom Salam Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤ 🕊
You do realize that driving those big lag bolts into rafters and especially trusses (usually made of 2 x 4's) you weaken them, you also just made a whole lot of holes (with paths for the water to run down) through not only the shingles but the water and vapor barriers of the roof. The accumulation of heat under the panels affects both the roof and the panels themselves, reducing power from the panels, and aging both prematurely and making replacement of the roof (including the decking underneath) that much more difficult. The decking because of those big water holes that may not show leaks in the house, but will cause water spread, rot, and delamination. Some consideration should be given to the house itself, and not just panel placement.
seen a bunch of horror stories on youtube with ppl having water intrusion, mold, and many other issues due to roof mounted solar.
In cold climates, mounting panels on the roof has many disadvantages. When it snows in my area the roof is often covered in snow for days, & so are the solar panels.
I personally don't like drilling 30 or 40 holes in a roof. And fire departments don't like spraying water on top of burning buildings that are generating electricity at the same time.
A ground based system can also benefit from snow on the ground. The panels are accessible for snow removal, & the snow on the ground can multiply the amount of light reflected onto the panels as well. And a disconnect is much more accessible for a fire department. I have the perfect away from the street, south facing roof for a solar panel installation, but I would never put them there for the above reasons.
Cleaning panels is much easier with a ground mount.
I want to mention that with a ground-mount solar array it is so much easier to perform maintenance - repair or replace; keep it clear of snow; clean the panels; etc. Not to mention that should you need to replace your roof (with roof mounted panels) you will need to have the panels removed; stored; and remounted all at an additional cost. And finally, if you ask me, roof mounted panels just plain look UGLY.
My main concern w/a ground mount is theft. This might sound crazy but some years ago in NC people were getting their AC units (the compressor/hot side) stolen. The thief needed only a few minutes to cut the lines, tubings and hoist it off. Granted stealing solar panels would require more time but it something that should be considered.
A situation that you didn’t mention was the additional cost for replacing your roof when a solar system is removed and reinstalled.
Very good point!
I'm new to your channel, and this is a great topic! Thanks for the awesome way you present, you're a great speaker.
Once you have the space its better to do a ground mount system. Overtime the advantages outweighs the disadvantages. You can keep your panel clear of snow and debris. As he said with 8% greater efficiency overtime you will get back more from you system even if you spend more upfront. Efficiency is most important aspect of having solar.
Great info. Thanks! I never would have thought of the extra costs for ground mounted solar
Oh my goodness, thanks for covering this! We have been having this discussion in our household recently, so this really helped a lot!
I’ve watched several of your videos, you are and excellent speaker and explain things very well.
Thanks for the support!
Great video. Thank you.
Im doing my own, ground mount 10kw. With rec alpha pure r. Hoping to cut my light bill in half.
Too many houses have roofs that are not appropriately constructed for solar panels. Manufacturers should come up with better ways to mount panels on the ground or on poles! What could be easier than the powerfield energy portable ballast containers?! Cheap, quick, and reliable.
If you have the space in your yard for a ground mount and permission to use that space (HOA & building departments if applicable) and not serious obstacles to trenching (gas lines, bedrock, concrete, asphalt or water) to your main electrical panel, thats what you should do no matter what kind of roof you have.
Not to mention you pay $15,000 on the installation on a roof. ground system you might spend 5 grand total, even if you rent a trenching machine and by Conduit. And you don't need all the permits when you put a ground-based system in you have to pay all kinds of money to the town to this to that to the inspector if you put it on your house
@@caseykelso1 whether you need a permit or not is determined by the jurisdiction and utility. My business installs in multiple states. While some are easier to deal with than others (FL, TX, UT & SC especially) they all have difficult counties and/or cities and/or utilities within them. HOAs suck nearly everywhere.
As far as costs. There’s more material, labor & equipment needed to build a ground mount however I feel as though its far less costly to maintain. If you dont have a compatible metal or tile roof with newish underlayment, you’ll definitely be grateful you went on the ground when its time to replace the shingles. Also if youre alive and still in the same home when its time to replace the system, the ground mount will certainly be paying for itseld
Yes, I would look to Federal Law then State Law as Feds trump State and local low including HOAs, State Law trumps County and City which trump any HOA rules. FTC and other Fed agencies encourage and supplement solar and wind so most likely you are able to install on your property. You may need to run the plan by a "looks committee" at an HOA but legally they are not able to block or enforce old rules that Federal law voids. For example, Fed and State Fair Housing Act laws allow for group homes for seniors or disable persons in even the high-end HOAs, same with Satellite dishes somewhere on a house, rain collection systems, etc. etc.
can you do an evaluation of "half cut" solar panels for areas with shade?
Sure thanks for the video idea.
A ground-mount seems safer. Cleaning the panels, doing any panel maintenance, system expansion,
panel testing, etc. is easier on the ground.
Imagine if one of the panels in the middle of your roof goes bad. You have to remove panels to create a path to replace it;
might not have to do that with a ground-mount system.
This next item may not be a huge deal since a roof can last 15-25 years, but you'd have to remove the solar panels to redo the roof, or locate a water leak.
Getting on the roof for any reason is dangerous.
The only reason I would get a roof-mounted system is if I didn't have enough land space to put in a ground-mount system.
I can't use either option. Too many trees surround the house, and an 8' fence blocks the only spot in the south-facing back yard where there is room for a ground mount. I looked into a tall ground mount system, but the only ones I could find had to be ordered direct from China, and they were pretty expensive, and I couldn't be sure how sturdy they might be.
So I am seriously considering having a lean-to shed built in that spot which would solve a few problems, some having nothing to do with solar. It would give us much-needed storage space, and we should be able to set up a covered parking area for our two cars, including a level 2 EV charger. Between the shed and the parking cover there should be more than enough square footage for the 24 or so panels that my little house needs. This would all be facing south, at a level that is high enough to overcome the fence issue. And we should be able to set the pitch at the appropriate angle. Wish me luck.
I thought ground mount systems were supposed to be less expensive since the installation is much simpler. Also what kind of losses can one expect over the run of the cable from the ground mount system to the house?
Ground mount is more expensive due to the cost of concrete work and building the metal frame structure. We generally size the wires to allow no more then 3% voltage drop from ground mount to house
To answer your question just ask yourself this question instead: "Do roofs ever need repair?" and look at the cost savings go away.
On large solar farms, GM is easier because most of them use a machine driven pile to support the rack. At your home, if you are handi, you can build your own support structure. You can use adjustable racks. You can clean the panels, dirt and snow.
Thank you for this video. Having dealt with multiple roof leaks over the years, and now on my 3rd roof, putting holes in the roof is like pulling teeth. And knowing that the seal under the mount may only be warranted for 10 years on a 30 year shingle warranty (which may be voided by this installation?), I would opt for a ground mount system. Looking long term, everything you do for a house is an investment and the less you or anyone is on a roof, the better. Thanks again!
Nice Video.
Good information and well presented. Check out red poppy ranch and his on the roof unit that he will be adding 3 more of while removing his panels from the ground. lol
Worked with one of your salesman last week and now signed DocuSign documents and no there's no contact.
Hi Josh. We are still working on your project. There is a slight delay in processing new projects using Enphase IQ8. We will let you know as soon as the project moves into production.
@@SolarSurge awesome thanks for the reply. I've been getting conflicting information as far as the tax credit. Do you know if the system has to be installed to qualify?
I’m really surprised the factor of roof size and orientation didn’t not make it into the talking points. Ground mount has the capacity to collect a significant amount more of sunlight as long as you have some extra land..25 acres or so.
I would never install a solar array over a 3 tab roof. When and not if it's time to replace a 3 tab rooof who is going to accept the liability of removing and reinstalling the solar array. Additionally, how do you clean the moss off the roof behind the solar array without removing the panels. Stand seam metal roofs are the way to go!
Good question. Most solar installers will offer to remove/replace the solar panels to allow roof replacement. If your roof is nearing its end of life, the solar company may offer a new roof as part of the solar installation.
I am looking for ground mount array, have the dirt and do not want to deal with a roof mount nor anyone I spoke likes having to climb roof to troubleshoot or repair. What ground mounted array hardware systems have you reviewed? I am looking for reviews of ground mounted array racks.
Also you may want to review/look at the PV ballasted "Powerfield" brand of solar arrays synthetic material buckets that anyone can install, level the ground, line them up and fill with sand and gravel to weight them down, mount your panels. They are about 8 inches off the ground in the front and 4 feet in the rear? Not really adjustable, but easy to set up. A true DIY, at about $65/bucket. I think they told me two per panel assuming you are using a large panel.
I recommend the Everest Ground Mounting System. It can be assembled using standard tools and equipment and none of the individual pieces are larger than 10ft. So you can literally put the whole kit in the back of a pickup truck.
@@SolarSurge thank you I will look at that rack kit.
ground mounts dont always require concrete pillars, they can uses helical piles/posts that are engineered to be equally strong as concrete ballasted poles
How hail resistant are solar panels? I live in the DFW area and had my entire roof replaced this year because of hail.
Good question. Most Tier 1 solar panels are rated to resist hail impact up to 125MPH.
John here is a video of how LG doea their testing against hail. ua-cam.com/video/WFTDaAg853g/v-deo.html
Your warranty should state that they will replace any panel destroyed by mother nature.
How do solar companies install on Florida concrete roof?
Is the concrete roof flat?
@@sunnyprospects2675 No the concrete tiles are curved
There are mounting brackets that are especially designed for cement and clay tile roofs. Although it may seem complex, we have some great engineers who have figured a solution to this challenge.
I've seen a screw type ground mount, anybody used them?
How do grounds mount typical stand in areas with HOA in texas
I would stay away from ground mount systems for neighborhoods with a homeowners association.
Is there a loss of watts/amperage/performance when using longer wiring from the ground mount, to the solar control panel?
Yes, the longer the distance the greater the loss.
Aluminum roof shingles that people are starting to sell now that look like regular shingles?
We haven't seen those on one of our installations yet.
Sounds great! Hope to see one soon
A solar system attached on top of the roof is two times the price of putting it on the grounds because you got to pay the installers 12 to $15,000 to install your $9,000 solar system on your roof so think about it if the labor is 65% more than the actual system ...put it on the ground and save five grand. It's a no-brainer this guy won't tell you that part of it will he. Because he has an in with the installers probably get to kickback
Casey installers charge a lot more for ground mounts. Where are you getting your information?