Franklin VS Enphase IQ Battery for Whole Home Backup
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
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Solar Surge will teach you all about being energy independent and how to set up your home to run off the grid during an emergency. We empower families to take control of their energy generation and storage so they will never be left in the dark without electricity.
In this video, Joe presents a head-to-head comparison of the market-leading Franklin Whole Home battery system and the Enphase Ensemble IQ battery system. Both of these are LFP batteries.
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► Franklin WH: www.franklinwh.com/
►Enphase: enphase.com/homeowners/home-s...
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That Franklin system looks sweet!
I just installed an Enphase complete system. But most of my old installs are SMA as well as my house. Thank You for showing me another option for my clients and myself.
Thank you. Great review and presentation!
Excellent overview, as per usual!
Enphase all day for me
Great review! You are the best. I have an Enphase system with 46 320w panels and 7+ micros. 10 mwh in 12 months. I also have an apartment with off peak cost availability. Both charge my Tesla Model Y. (Supercharger midpoint to get there and back) I put off putting batteries on the solar. My electric coop has very little down time, but Northern Michigan covers my panels in snow for months. For both locations I used 826kwh in Nov. The solar home was 373kwh offset by my solar credit and the apartment 336kwh off peak leaving me with 109kwh of regular cost. The distribution and customer charges are insane. $6-8 worth of electricity cost me $110 total. To be off grid I need a battery, controller and generator. I would save $6,000 ($40/mo x12yrs) over 12 years so how do I justify $20K? A small battery (3kwh) would get me through the night and outages but not the snow months so a generator could assist but needs propane. I guess I wait for tech to go up and cost to go down.
thank you David Goggins
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤🕊
Love your videos. I had 33 KW of Enphase batteries installed a year ago. They have been rock solid. With that said. The 40KW limit on Enphase is a big problem for people that need more than that.
Batteries are far too expensive for long term power loss. Buying a backup generator is a far more economic solution for long term power loss, either from your solar panels or from your utility power grid. Another long term solution is a V2H EV connection.
I recently started watching your video and find them extremely informative. I saw a video that was posted about a year ago of 3 reason why you pick the Enphase Battery over the Tesla Powerwall. You talked about how during a off-grid the Enphase has the ability to turn off certain solar panels to control the amount of power coming in, so the system doesn't do what the Tesla does and shuts down the system completely multiple times during the off-grid and goes through battery cycles multiple times a day. Thus deteriorating the battery and the warranty. My question is, does the FranklinWH system have the same abilities as the Enphase system during a off-grid? Before your videos I was leaning towards Tesla, but now I am much more towards the FranklinWH system. I have SunPower panels, but still leaning towards the Franklin instead of the SunVault systems because of cost and abilities. Any information on this with the FranklinWH would be helpful. Thank you...
Love your videos! With CA NEM 3.0 & battery needs, can you do a video on system size and adding the proper battery storage amount. System in kWh produced according to +100% offset vs kWh battery storage needed etc.?
I sure enjoy your head to head comparison videos.
I like your approach in this video, comparing the whole home ability of one system against the whole home capability of another system.
That is the correct way of doing it.
Others want to compare number of batteries…well done!
I appreciate that you are sincere, honest, and factual about your presentations.
I feel confidant sharing what you present to those I care about because your not trying to sell me or them.
Thank you for this Joe!
As someone who has installed probaby at least a thousand enphase systems...the solar is great. The batteries leave a lot to be desired.
What do you think of the upcoming 5P battery?
@@Eireternal the 5P solves the two issues plaguing the older 10 and 10T batteries. The power output has been doubled for the same amount of battery capacity. And wireless communication issues go away since the 5P has a wired communication protocol. This blows this video's comparison out of the water. Time for an updated comparison, @SolarSurge
Hey Joe, we love your style! Why leave out more efficient DC coupled battery solutions that also AC couple to existing micro inverters such as just one of Sol-Ark's 15K that has a 200A transfer switch built-in? Previous videos reviewed Sol-Ark. Paired with Homegrid, Fortress, Pylontech, Deka or Endur batteries? You can both DC and AC couple. Thanks for all you do!
Can you use a gasoline generator? Non-inverter. Ie how tolerant is it of frequency, and is manual generator starting supported?
Thank you for all the helpful education videos Joe. It seems that V2G/V2H is going to be more available with the newer EV’s. I would like to see a video on the expected enphase bi-directional evse. How would a new install today be ready for that transition, it seems a smaller battery would be a good idea in that config.
It's nice to see this video, but I'm disappointed to see you giving the Franklin battery the edge in warranty.
Frankin's warranty is MUCH more restrictive, especially when it comes to temperatures. Also, the remedy difference between these warranties is significant, with Franklin (AT THEIR SOLE DISCRETION) being able to do a pro-rated refund or replacement with refurbished equipment while Enphase is obligated to first repair or replace. Then there the difference in Enphase being a publicly traded company (with strong, public, financials) and their warranties being backed by separate insurance versus Franklin being a startup with unknown financials. Odds between these two warranties remaining intact for the entire warranty period are very likely in Enphase's favor.
This isn't all the differences in warranty, but I think it's enough that regardless of the number of years, Franklin's warranty carries more than enough risk to disqualify it from maximum points. It's your rating system, though, so maybe it's not my place to critique it.
As always, I think folks should do their own research. Your videos are a fantastic source of information, so thank you for them. I just made this comment to encourage folks to look a bit deeper at things, like warranty, and not just assume a bigger number (like years of warranty) automatically means better.
Hi....I have the Enphase Enlighten System with (3) Battery backup with 65 panels at 360 w....looking to hopefully connect my ionic 5 2022 with V2L for additional backup power ......any suggestions
Hi Joe is this a sponsored video?
Also I agree IQ is pricier but at this point who is most likely to be around to service these warranties?
Enphase or an Unknown Startup Franklin? -V
What are the efficiencies of both system? The higher the efficiency the reduced cost of ownership. The losses on the system will be the AC/DC DC/AC conversion losses - whether with any eternal PV converters.
Will 3 5P's (if used judiciously) power a whole house? Like adding a soft start to the AC and limiting AC usage at night?
Thanks for the video. I wonder how much RFI either system produces. Solar edge created a big problem for radio communication in the past. I don’t recall if they used AC coupled or DC coupled panels. Thanks again for your videos.
FYI, I don't have this problem.
Would love to get your thoughts on the HomeGrid batteries.
Hi Joe, Have you done a video on whole home battery backup without solar? If not, can you do one? Thanks!
Gotta give enphase a point for ease of maintenance, since their ac/dc inverter is just iq 8's which means u dont have to replace a whole inverter of it goes bad, just swap the iq 8 thats dead out
1850 Sq Ft house in Florida. 2 Encharge 10’s and 10.5 kW of panels and IQ8M’s….. Runs everything OFF grid for 4 months straight because the Net Meters were on back order… so I wasn’t getting any credit for all the extra power I was sending to the grid… Love It and have had Zero Problems in 5 Months. Only run the water heater during day time and very large clothes dryer during the day to save battery when off Grid. Soft Start was 225 bucks installed on central A/C unit. No problems.
Franklin WH looks like a really great option to add battery backup to any existing solar installation. It seems powerful, well thought out, well priced and overall a clear winner! For new installs I'd still go with a Hybrid inverter and DC coupled battery solution but that's just me.
Thanks Greg, we see the pre-existing 3m or so Solar installs and we’re got their back:)
When we are talking about whole home batteries, how many panels does it take to charge the batteries?
@@ivorymcneal1450 It's a very vague question you're asking with too many unknow variables. Technically you don't need panels you charge the batteries, you could charge from grid if you choose to do so. The questions you'd have to answer is what is the purpose of the batteries in your system setup, what is your power consumption, what is your location, what percent of your consumption you want to offset with PV, what percent of your consumption is happening during the day, what percent of your production you try to self-consume. Without knowing the answer to these question, sizing a system, and sizing batteries would not render optimal results.
But to answer your question: in general terms, if your plan is to maximize self consumption (90%+ of self-consumption with minimal surplus export to the grid) and you're shooting for 80%-85% of self reliance (producing 85% of your own consumption over the year) you'd probably need about 0.6-0.7 kW of PV for every kWh of storage for the system to be balanced in that realm. Now this is just a rough estimate and ballpark figure that would need closer examination depending on your specific situation and usage.
Love your videos and when I start my new home build I'm definitely going to contact you. I know you've done videos showing total home use, but can you do a 2023 update? In my case, I'm looking at a 3,000 sq ft house, 2 refrigerators, a freezer, induction cooktop, electric stove, but main question surrounds a heat pump water heater and ductless units. How do those items impact solar needs?
Awesome, thank you!
We would love to help with the sizing. As Joe knows, FranklinWH loves to get involved with the load sizing, and help make sure everything performs as expected. Future electrification of our homes is exactly what FWH was built for.
Stoked to heard about the home when it’s complete and congrats!
Out of your area unfortunately, but thank you so much for the free education.
Hi Kenneth. Our territory has recently expanded. Where are you located?
@@SolarSurge - Connecticut.
Great review Joe and I know I'm late to the trough. forgive me if I misheard what you said. The Enphase system shuts down at a 10, 15 or 20% storage during a grid outage leaving enough power to restart system in the morning just like the blackstart or the Franklin. The Enphase System Controller (smart switch) also has two low voltage outputs for load control (yes you need to add a line voltage relay) and input for the generator. You didn't mention the app for the Franklin but we all know the Enphase app is great. Customer Service is also great with Enphase. I'd hope Franklin's will be also. Two great products all around. Last a question - will IQ7+ microinverters work with the new generation of Enphase batteries.
I remember there was a demo version of the FranklinWH app that you could try out.
In this industry new, small, private companies come and go and homeowners are left stranded. And they often enter with an attractive price. It’s hard to compare trusted and financially sound public companies like Enphase with newbies like Franklin.
Fair enough Chris-we are new, but not unproven (3 years of r&d). Unlike many other brands, our products are thoughtfully sourced, our lithium supply guaranteed, and financial backing from some of the world’s strongest financial institutions. More importantly, we’ve scaled extremely linearly, with a focus on service over sales.
We look forward to running back this comment in 5 years. Best wishes
@@justinfranklinwh4969 Any distributors in WNC?
@@christinearmington what’s WNC? We have distributors and stock across the country, so you should be good with any of our usa sitting toon partners
That's why you should consider getting an LG home 8!
Wish y'all were in PA!
We are coming very soon! Please check back in 2 weeks.
Does the Franklin offer any cost savings capabilities like the IQ batteries do, to save you money when the grid is not down, by reducing on-peak consumption and peak demand?
Hi Chris-thanks for the question. The short answer is yes, we have 3 modes currently-backup mode, self consumption mode, and time of use mode (built around TOU pricing)
A question for Solar Surge: in other video(s) you've pointed out that one of the advantages of the Enphase system is it's ability during an outage to simultaneously power the house and keep the battery topped off without cycling the battery on and off. I believe that's due to the tight integration between the Enphase controller and their panels/microinverters. I assume the Franklin system doesn't have this capability and it cycles the battery in a way similar to Tesla and other systems. Is that correct and how much of a disadvantage is this? Thanks!
Hi TIm. Yes, you are correct. Both Tesla and Franklin have this limitation of micro-cycling the battery during a grid-down event. It's not the end of the world, but I would not recommend this if your are planning on true 100% off-grid operation for long term.
great video just curious. will Franklin black start be the same as Enphase sunlight mode when power is out. just trying to figure out of the Franklin will accomplish the same function just in a different way.
As I remember when the grid power is abnormal, the Franklyn system is off-grid, and the available power is exhausted, the smart loads will be automatically disconnected and the system enters sleep mode, waiting for a black start attempt. You can manually black start up as well.
It seems for a new system set up, it would be better with the franklin WH, as it’s future proofing. Enphase may not be interoperable with newer technical Enphase components in say a decade as I’m sure the advancements will be coming ever faster.
You can contact franklyn. I suggest you!
What about for time shifting your daily solar production to use at night, fully? Assuming someone has little to no concern about grid outage, are both equally easy to maximize your use of solar and minimize your power going back out to grid and paying higher grid rates because your state has a non parity net metering cost?
Yes the Franklin battery system supports self-consumption mode for those homeowners who do not have access the true 1-for-1 net metering.
If you use Enphase Micro Inverters and Franklin Battery which app do you use to monitor system consumption and production of solar? You probably stuck using 2 apps at once. Also which System Controller to use or Franklin AGate?
In this case, you would use the Enphase IQ Combiner for the solar side and use the Franklin aGate for the whole-house switching. Both apps would also be used.
You don't work in New Mexico? The Franklin would apparently slip right in to replace the current RESU10 battery & Solar Edge setup
We are coming very soon. Please check back in 2 weeks!
well done, Joe. can i use a single FWH to run a 3-ton AC during the night when there are no other AC draws. seems crazy to buy this system just for an "emergency" situation when we lose power here only once in a few years!
Yes, technically you could hook up a single battery for a whole house back up and you could run a 3 ton air conditioner. If no other heavy loads were running. However, I always recommend two batteries or more for a whole house back up.
Lucky! My grandma and grandpa loose power 2-8 times a month, mostly in the winter. Last time it happened, grandma said it was out for almost 30 hours. I pick on her because I have been off grid almost 6 years, and unless I shut off my inverter I do not loose power.
Wow, I'm curious where you live? Btw Franklyn will solve the problem without hesitation. @@pheorrungurd8746
Interesting. Curious to know if you’re sponsored in any way by Franklin (or any of their affiliates)?
Fair question. Solar Surge is not sponsored in any way by Franklin or Enphase. we sell and support both brands.
Do does battery systems need an inverter too? Do they pair well with the Sol Ark?
Hi Matthew-this is a AC coupled system, so using solark would be a bit superfluous on the cost. The inverter is built into the aPower.
I enjoy watching your educational videos. Considering that recent legislation will reward systems that are made in the U.S. it would be great if you added a sixth category, i.e. where is the product made? Thanks.
Thanks for the feedback.
I have a full home backup system with only 2 enphase 10KWH batteries. Not sure why he's saying here you have to have three. I have load control where it CAN turn off the oven and central A/C but I've run the central A/C on battery power alone for several hours no problem. Watching the enphase app I'm typically around 4kw. Far below the 7.6kw or so continuous load two enphase 10kw batteries are rated for.
If you want to be able to run central A/C during evening hours on battery power alone, 3 batteries are recommended.
Looking for price quote 1battery and 1 agate I have Enphase system. Live near Orlando fl
Can you pair the Franklin WH battery system with the Enphase sunlight back-up microinverters
??
Yes you can. That is one of our most common configurations using Franklin batteries with Enphase micro inverters on the roof.
I’d like to help see a side by side with the Storz Power Whole home system compared to the Franklin whole home Battery using your scoring system and over cost. I’d also like to consider the overall cost of the entire system installed including the cost factors of AC coupling with Franklin over DC couple with Storz Power.
Hey Everett. Good morning. Good to hear from you. I would definitely like to invite Storz into this Battery conversation. Will you all be exhibiting at inter-solar in February?
@@joeordia8696 we won’t be exhibiting there but we will be at CES and IBS in Vegas, and SolarCon in April along with RE+ in September. Let me know of the best way to connect and we can get on a call to see the best way to catch up! Great work!
Do you do installation in PA or can you make a recommendation, i'm interested in the Franklin system
If you are still interested, you can contact directly to their websites.
As a solar backup, a major factor is the number of cycles during the life of the battery. The battery could very well be cycled daily. This heavily impacts the lifecycle cost of the battery.
Absolutely Morris. Very good insight -We do not have a cycle limit on our warranty. It’s 12 years or 43mwh. Expectation that the battery can handle well over 6500 cycles, but we do not include that in the warranty language, for this reason.
@@justinfranklinwh4969 you state that the Franklinwh battery should handle over 6500 cycles. but 43mwh warranty divided by 13.6kwh battery capacity is only 3162 not 6500. si if you cycle once a day the warranty would end in year 9. Where as the current enphase 10t or 5p warranty is 15y or 6,000 cycles. the 10 warranty is 10y or 4,000 cycles or 28mwh or only 8 years if cycling once a day. so the previous enphase warranty was slightly worse than franklin but current warranty is much better
Do Franklin vs. Tesla!
How would either work with a smart electric panel like the Span?
Great question zina!
Actually, we are looking forward to even more compatibility features with Lumin and Span for our more tech savvy customers. Ideally, the large loads would still be installed on the aGate, like an EV, so you can control shutoff, but Span/lumen are a great addition if you need a lot of source control.
Fast forward to 7:40
You’re welcome!
Can you use the IQ contoller with Franklin batteries? Its the same type of battery right?? Personally I think Enphase should simply buy Franklin batteries ( buy the company) and use them instead of the current Enphase batteries. I am getting a system put in and plan on just IQ controller for now and wait on battery tech. Simply too expensive at the moment and our area does not have special night time rates yet.
The Enphase controller only works with Enphase batteries. I would keep everything Enphase to ensure compatibility.
@@SolarSurge Was afraid so, but concur keep it same same, hence why I suggested enphase buy franklin ;-) Both american companies right? Trying to keep my $$ in North America.
Is solar surge usa only or international also? actually considering portugal or Spain.
Hi, and thanks for writing in. We are currently only in the US in nine states as listed on the website.
Interested in Franklin, I'm in Puerto Rico. Do you know if anyone is installing this system in my neck of the woods. Thanks Joe great info. Love your video's
Saludos Mildred, Energy Depot recientemente me cotizaron la Franklin WH. I hope that helps!
Thank you, me ayudo mucho
@@ajrichardson979 Gracias por su ayuda me realizaron una cotización.
@@mildredbaez463 me alegro mucho, q le sea de bendición 🙏🏾
I’m currently getting proposals for a grid tied 10 kW system in PG&E territory. Everyone wants to install Enphase IQ8’s. I plan to have the grid be my battery for 20 years under NEM 2, and I have a manual transfer switch and portable natural gas generator for black out conditions to keep refrigerators running. I don’t want to (can’t afford it) invest in batteries now as it would just be a luxury. I do however want to be able to add batteries in 20 years and go “off grid” from PG&E. Are there currently any AC coupled batteries (besides Enphase batteries) that will work with the IQ8s in an off grid configuration? Am I wasting my time with this future scenario because technology will jump leaps and bounds by then? I’m assuming batteries will be much cheaper by then hence the down the road adoption.
You can start with Enphase IQ8s now and then add a Franklin battery in the future for off-grid. That's where the solar black start feature comes into play. You can go totally off-grid. I recommend to start with Enphase micro's on the roof. Let us know if you need a comparison quote www.solarsurge.net
Tell me this, what am I gaining with IQ8’s over going with IQ7’s if I don’t want the sun light back up as well as want to utilize a 3rd party battery later down the road?
@@59apachestepside if you don't use the Enphase IQ system controller your only getting a newer micro inverter
Do both of these battery options have to be connected to the internet? If so is there a way to just connect to the net a few times per year just for updates? Also if not connected to the net will it affect the warranty?
Both require the internet to get the most out of them and for the warranty to remain intact. If 13 times a year is a "a few," then yes, you could do that and keep the warranties intact, but you'd still wouldn't have access to all the features all the time.
@Thom Murphy thanks for the info. To be clear though you do not need the internet for them to function even for the initial setup if need be?
@Abel Melchor I'm not 100% sure about the Franklin, but you absolutely need an internet connection to commission the Enphase system. It can be via a cellular connection, though. It's very likely the same for the Franklin.
You not only need to be connected to the internet with the FranklinWH solution, it provides benefits. The FranklinWH app runs on both iOS and Android phones and allows customers to monitor and manage their installation.
@David T this isn't true. You must connect the Franklin to the internet at least 1 time per month to keep your warranty intact. (Read there complete warranty terms.)Also, those apps do NOT connect to the battery locally for all functions. The majority (if not all) connect to a server in the "cloud," which the battery connects to. This means that if Franklin goes out of business, and those servers aren't maintained, you may lose Franklin app functionality. Also, you must connect to the Internet to commission the Franklin.
This comparison is obsolete now that Enphase introduced the 5P battery. It has DOUBLE the power output of the 10 or 10T. That adds at least 2 points to the comparison in Enphase's column in my mind. Also, what is sorely missing from the comparison is something that others have mentioned, and that is serviceability. Enphase is vastly more familiar and there are thousands of capable Enphase installers. Enphase's consumer and dealer support is also world class, and they have proven that they stand behind their warranty. Does the Franklin product look good on paper and on the wall? Yes. But Enphase being the market leader and the serviceability factor should have added at least a couple of X-Factor points. Then there is the fact that Franklin does not have microinverters, so you are stuck using two brands. That means you will have two apps to monitor and control your system. Even the older (but still available) 10T battery beats Franklin in our opinion, and the 5P with better wired communication protocol and dramatically better power output puts Enphase firmly on the top of the AC Coupled battery mountain.
Oh, and the 5P comes with a 15 year warranty at no additional cost. Another point to Enphase.
Joe, love you and your channel here but to offer some constructive criticism, I personally find the pace is a bit slow for the vids. Just my opinion where others may feel it’s just right or too quick.
Thanks for all of your incredible knowledge and wealth of experience and information that you provide for us here!
I’ve seen your comparison and product reviews of Enphase vs Aptos. So now Enphase is the best micro inverter? Pls clarify or confirm. Thanks
Enphase has always been the best.
None of these seem to support Pacific North west standard 20 days no sun?
While I'm talking from a FranklinWH perspective, the odds are Enphase will have the same answer I'm providing as Joe mentioned they also have a generator option.
Modern controllers work with solar, the grid, generators and batteries. We integrate the different sources. Of course, no sun means no power from the solar array. However, the grid and generators still provide power to both the home and to charge the batteries. That means the batteries are both ready for backup when there is an outage and provides time-of-use load shifting to optimize cost savings by running the batteries as much as possible during peak grid charge periods.
All of us, FWH and our competitors, are focused on integrating multiple power sources into more reliable supply for your home -- even up here in the PNW. 😊
@@davidt3956 Thank you.
I have enphase battey 30k and have generator
Is a low price is not an exact price 🤔
Well done. 😊 Under the warranty category, I would have given the IQ one extra point because of their company’s longevity.
AC coupling is wasteful. Only use AC at the grid and the house supply (and a generator if used). Solar and batteries should be DC.
Excellent presentation, made easy to understand for idiots like myself.
😄 👌👍
Sorry, I must be confused by this video. You are supposedly comparing WHOLE HOME BACKUP systems. My house (as do 99% of those out there) have WAY MORE than 2 breakers or loads in my electrical panel (like the Franklin). The Enphase gives you only 4 per box to control at a time. There are other "smart controllers" out there (like Lumin or Solark) which give say 12-14 different loads as an option. I totally understand how the "smart controller" could actually be much more important than adding additional batteries or inverters and solar panels. Just like cutting down on energy usage (by using more insulation, tighter envelope on the house like passivhaus, etc.) is better than just adding additional solar or batteries or windpower. Use less requires a smaller system not larger. Even Ecoflow has their Smart Home Panel that handles 10 circuits with their Delta Pro power stations for the batteries!!! That sounds alot closer than either Enphase or Franklin from your video. Please explain if I am wrong or missing something?
I think you are confusing how these systems work. The load controllers turn loads OFF that can't be backed up or if you do not want them as priority loads in a grid outage situation. Both systems are 200A pass through and when they go off grid, the whole house can be powered, or you can dump heavy loads if you want to preserve battery capacity.
LG Home 8 smokes the pants off of both of these.
Videos spend too much time on disclaimers & premising. Get to the point, give us the info. Otherwise the info is useful.
Hi please check your email . Cheers!