Thank you for this video, it is very intriguing and enlightening. I understand now as a type 4 that my withdrawn “parent” (more so my school environment) really did have a big influence on my need for individuality and success. Also I see that a big part of me is built on my shame and conflict of feeling unrecognized and alien as a child; I have distinct memories of keeping happily to myself and accepting that I was alone in the world. When my parents praised me for my achievements i at least felt accomplished. I see what I have to focus on now :)
I checked out some other channel who argumented that as a child you start perhaps as an assertive 8 but then you are shaped into a withdrawn 5. Or you set out as an withdrawn 9 and end up a responsive 6. I wonder how you feel about that assessment, because it's a different pattern of the fact that one type's health arrow (where you go for growth) is actually the personality they began with before they were shaped into their core type.
That's a very interesting perspective. I'm finding that there's a little of every number in all of us, which we discover as we grow - it's almost like a process of integration of the best aspects of all the numbers. So the idea that you would take on another number as you grow and almost go from being higher to lower energy could make sense. I know also with the MBTI as we get older we tend to incorporate the aspects of the styles we are not. But in general enneagram experts seem to agree that while we may integrate, our core number remains the same and that has been consistent with my experience. The more I grow, the more I am able to see that my core pattern is still a reflection of my main enneatype even though I "show up" very healthy and balanced on the surface.
But on the other hand, it's also the typical chicken-or-egg-question, isn't it? I guess you could also state that the gut-types, because they identify themselves with their gut instincts, have a great need for space to freely express that, and therefor interpret the parenting style of their parents as assertive. The mind-types on the other hand, identify themselves with the mind and seek a lot of reassuring for al the questions that emerge there, so they have a tendency to ask a lot of questions, therefor enabling their parants to be more responsive. The feeling types identify with their feelings and their personality and doubt the fact that they are seen and appreciated for who they are, inherently. Therefor they see their parents as ignoring or withdrawn. This theory places both the social style and the gut-heart-mind-triad into the child, but does leave space for explaning why it is that within one family, all children can experience their parents in a different way, and why one family could harvest a type 1-child, a type 6-child and a type 4-child, for example.
Also, in the 'things to consider'-table and in the 'what-to-embrace'-boxes, I see you have put the contents of the according types in the integration-direction with some types, and the desintegration-direction types in others. In my opinion, people need to reintegrate what they have desintegrated, in order to regain the possibilities of their integration-direction-type. So as I see it, 8 needs to embrace their vulnerability (5) in order to be able to use their strength to help others (2), 9 needs to embrace conflict and 'wrinkles' (6) to dare to make themselves present (3), 1 needs to embrace their own imperfections and irrationality (4) to regain their spontaneity (7), 2 needs to embrace their own will and boundaries (8), in order to regain authenticity (4), 3 needs to embrace mere existence without performing (9), in order to really connect with others and get a feeling of peronal value through the honest relationships they have, 4 needs to embrace the possibility to connect with others and have things in common (2), in order to focus their talents, flourish and actually get something done as expected (1), 5 needs to embrace some recklessness; daring to start something without having thought everything through (7), in order to dare to take their thoughts outside of themselves, put them into action and show other people the way (8) 6 needs to embrace change and flexibility (3) so they can feel harmony and enjoy the beauty of life and 7 needs to embrace routine, 'sameness' and repetition (1) in order to remain in one experience long enough so they can let it sink in and be fulfilled by it (5).
My mother spent 30 years trying to make me a 2. Now in my old age, I suspect there were times when my 9-ness drove her crazy. What i'm very curious about is what *her* type was. She seemed obsessed with appearances and in a variety of ways within a broad variety of situations, it came down to "what will people think". This especially in terms of how she felt I made her look to others vs how she wanted me to make her look.
Trauma can have a major impact on the nurture aspect, especially early trauma in life before the child has developed a full sense of self and being their own person
thanks for this video..i have a doubt...my parents where quite absent, because of work and other problems among them but my grand mother was living with my mother and she was very "responsive"..so i am not sure how emotionally that fit in all this....probably i felt the lack of my mother but i wasn't t left out neither..i was very loved and probably over protected by my grand mother....THANKS!!
i was a very introverted and independent child....i have happy memories but maybe there was a little of anger i could say...maybe...it's hard to be sure, maybe i was just a little moody sometime
Hi Cristobal, the nature part of the enneagram isn't necessarily cut and dry because we were exposed to many different personalities as children - in your case absent parents but a very responsive grandmother. It's a combination of how you experienced the people you grew up with that provide that part of the puzzle - and it is a puzzle! Best of luck as you continue your journey.
I do have a question, if anyone cares to give their input. :) While I am finding that these associations and thought processes make sense and I see the patterns, and while I am confident I am either a four or five in personality, I don't feel that I necessarily had a conscious level of understanding that I felt the way a four or five child felt . . . I see the tendencies deeply present in what my childhood was like, however. For example, as I grow and heal now, I see how overbearing my (hurt, well intentioned) mother was and that I probably felt smothered, but I don't recall recognizing it . . . I have studied enmeshment a lot recently, as well, and am pondering, I guess, whether that type of trauma can basically inhibit your ability to understand that you're being suppressed/oppressed. . . I KNOW I didn't word this as articulately as would probably be beneficial; I apologize. :) But if you have thoughts on it, anything I said, I am so fascinated by it and would love to hear/discover more!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I would say that all of these models and theories provide possible insights, but still your journey is unique, and not everything here is set in stone or will apply to you. Typically a four feels unseen as a child but a five feels more invaded as a child. But we have more than one relationship when we are young, and one parent may not have seen us and another might have hovered too much. And we would have responded to this differently based on how we interpreted it. LOTS of variables! Good luck on this journey!
Based on this video, it would seem I am a Type 2 child by nature (sensitive, caring, sweet, sentimental, depressed) But a Type 1 child by nurture (judgmental, shame, irritable, easily frustrated). Or maybe I had a mix of Assertive and Withdrawn guardians? Very confusing. Definite abandonment issues.
Care Bear maybe it doesen't make sense for you because you don't remember how you (as a child) FELT. It didn't make sense for me either at first, because my grandmother raised me with so much care and protection, but as I start to remember my feelings toward this... I feelt unseen somehow. Sometimes it doesen't make sense how we feel, we just feel.
what about sisters with same parents? why they end up different? In different triads I mean Can it be because I felt my mom was responsive but with my sister she was assertive?
You are each responding to your family environment from your perspective - your energy is what you were born with and it could be different, but also one of you could be responding more to a second parent if your father was also there - and if he wasn't if one of you was younger than the other you might have experienced a different environment. Mom might have been different with both of you as well. I am a mom and I have an extroverted child and an introverted child. I pushed more on the older child who was pushing me as well, the introverted child withdraws and I hover more. It can be kind of a two-way dynamic where both are reacting to what it seems the other one is doing.
girl8 parents respond differently to each child, and children go through different experiences. Preface: my dad is a withdrawn parent, my mother’s parenting changed. My older brother is a 7, I am a 5, we are two years apart so we were raised the same. Our older sister is most likely a 2, my mom was 21 when she was born and her father and my mother didn’t end up staying together. My younger sister is a 3. Idk if I would say that she lacked attention (maybe because at this time my mother went back to college) but she was very good at basketball from a young age which my parents congratulated her on often. It made my father (withdrawn) bond with her more and both of my parents are Capricorn’s so they hold accomplishments in high regard.
Yes - I don't think this is all neat and predictable. We have two parents, also older siblings and possibly other major characters in our early life who make up our "nurture" influence. Also, you'll notice you have many different numbers show up as you recognize several common themes of survival patterns showing up in your unique profile. I thought it was fun to go through this as an exercise - and now five years later, I am seeing even deeper patterns show up in my clients - it's an amazing journey!
I’m confused about how there’s a single parent energy style? Are we assuming parents offer the same parenting style? Most are very different in how they parent
I agree. In fact, I believe that sometimes we can have two or more very different patterns inside us that feel like different enneagram numbers based on our relationships with different parents. Ultimately we all have every number inside us to one degree or another. I think this is probably why a lot of people aren't sure what number they actually line up with.
Embracing ordinary doesn't mean being ordinary - it means seeing the magic in every mundane moment - and when you do that you live in beauty and uniqueness every moment no matter what boring situation you might be in - even standing in a long line for two hours....
Quite possibly one of the most well presented and interesting videos I’ve seen on the enneagram! This information is so enlightening.
I love organizing and finding patterns, so this video is immensely satisfying. Thank you for sharing your thought process!
Ahhhh, fascinating!! Thanks for sharing this idea. :)
Sincerely, either a five or four:)
This is the best thing I’ve seen yet on the enneagram
There is a lot of wisdom inhere!! Thanks for the excellent explanation.
Thank you! This has taken me to a deeper level within the Enneagram. Very enlightening.
Fantastic video. Really helpful and enlightening. Thanks so much for sharing this.
I really enjoyed your thoughts on the subject. Thanks for sharing. :)
Thank you for this video, it is very intriguing and enlightening. I understand now as a type 4 that my withdrawn “parent” (more so my school environment) really did have a big influence on my need for individuality and success. Also I see that a big part of me is built on my shame and conflict of feeling unrecognized and alien as a child; I have distinct memories of keeping happily to myself and accepting that I was alone in the world. When my parents praised me for my achievements i at least felt accomplished. I see what I have to focus on now :)
yummi mummi
Lot of good work here. Thank you!
I checked out some other channel who argumented that as a child you start perhaps as an assertive 8 but then you are shaped into a withdrawn 5. Or you set out as an withdrawn 9 and end up a responsive 6. I wonder how you feel about that assessment, because it's a different pattern of the fact that one type's health arrow (where you go for growth) is actually the personality they began with before they were shaped into their core type.
That's a very interesting perspective. I'm finding that there's a little of every number in all of us, which we discover as we grow - it's almost like a process of integration of the best aspects of all the numbers. So the idea that you would take on another number as you grow and almost go from being higher to lower energy could make sense. I know also with the MBTI as we get older we tend to incorporate the aspects of the styles we are not. But in general enneagram experts seem to agree that while we may integrate, our core number remains the same and that has been consistent with my experience. The more I grow, the more I am able to see that my core pattern is still a reflection of my main enneatype even though I "show up" very healthy and balanced on the surface.
This is very healing for me !
Thank you ❤
Wonderful video! So far all the types describe my relatives perfectly! Now I'm understanding my husband, and children better. Thanks again! ⚘
I'm glad you are enjoying them!
This was 👍 great
This is a very refreshing addition to the enneagram literature. Thank you!
But on the other hand, it's also the typical chicken-or-egg-question, isn't it?
I guess you could also state that the gut-types, because they identify themselves with their gut instincts, have a great need for space to freely express that, and therefor interpret the parenting style of their parents as assertive. The mind-types on the other hand, identify themselves with the mind and seek a lot of reassuring for al the questions that emerge there, so they have a tendency to ask a lot of questions, therefor enabling their parants to be more responsive. The feeling types identify with their feelings and their personality and doubt the fact that they are seen and appreciated for who they are, inherently. Therefor they see their parents as ignoring or withdrawn.
This theory places both the social style and the gut-heart-mind-triad into the child, but does leave space for explaning why it is that within one family, all children can experience their parents in a different way, and why one family could harvest a type 1-child, a type 6-child and a type 4-child, for example.
Also, in the 'things to consider'-table and in the 'what-to-embrace'-boxes, I see you have put the contents of the according types in the integration-direction with some types, and the desintegration-direction types in others. In my opinion, people need to reintegrate what they have desintegrated, in order to regain the possibilities of their integration-direction-type.
So as I see it, 8 needs to embrace their vulnerability (5) in order to be able to use their strength to help others (2),
9 needs to embrace conflict and 'wrinkles' (6) to dare to make themselves present (3),
1 needs to embrace their own imperfections and irrationality (4) to regain their spontaneity (7),
2 needs to embrace their own will and boundaries (8), in order to regain authenticity (4),
3 needs to embrace mere existence without performing (9), in order to really connect with others and get a feeling of peronal value through the honest relationships they have,
4 needs to embrace the possibility to connect with others and have things in common (2), in order to focus their talents, flourish and actually get something done as expected (1),
5 needs to embrace some recklessness; daring to start something without having thought everything through (7), in order to dare to take their thoughts outside of themselves, put them into action and show other people the way (8)
6 needs to embrace change and flexibility (3) so they can feel harmony and enjoy the beauty of life
and 7 needs to embrace routine, 'sameness' and repetition (1) in order to remain in one experience long enough so they can let it sink in and be fulfilled by it (5).
Because I keep getting Type 1 but then I learned to be codependent and the lost message, I am wanted as I am, resonates most with me.
These Aspyrre clips are excellent.
My mother spent 30 years trying to make me a 2. Now in my old age, I suspect there were times when my 9-ness drove her crazy. What i'm very curious about is what *her* type was. She seemed obsessed with appearances and in a variety of ways within a broad variety of situations, it came down to "what will people think". This especially in terms of how she felt I made her look to others vs how she wanted me to make her look.
sounds like a 3
Trauma can have a major impact on the nurture aspect, especially early trauma in life before the child has developed a full sense of self and being their own person
Definitely agree - and that can skew someone's enneatype as well I've head.
thanks for this video..i have a doubt...my parents where quite absent, because of work and other problems among them but my grand mother was living with my mother and she was very "responsive"..so i am not sure how emotionally that fit in all this....probably i felt the lack of my mother but i wasn't t left out neither..i was very loved and probably over protected by my grand mother....THANKS!!
i was a very introverted and independent child....i have happy memories but maybe there was a little of anger i could say...maybe...it's hard to be sure, maybe i was just a little moody sometime
Hi Cristobal, the nature part of the enneagram isn't necessarily cut and dry because we were exposed to many different personalities as children - in your case absent parents but a very responsive grandmother. It's a combination of how you experienced the people you grew up with that provide that part of the puzzle - and it is a puzzle! Best of luck as you continue your journey.
I do have a question, if anyone cares to give their input. :) While I am finding that these associations and thought processes make sense and I see the patterns, and while I am confident I am either a four or five in personality, I don't feel that I necessarily had a conscious level of understanding that I felt the way a four or five child felt . . . I see the tendencies deeply present in what my childhood was like, however.
For example, as I grow and heal now, I see how overbearing my (hurt, well intentioned) mother was and that I probably felt smothered, but I don't recall recognizing it . . . I have studied enmeshment a lot recently, as well, and am pondering, I guess, whether that type of trauma can basically inhibit your ability to understand that you're being suppressed/oppressed. . . I KNOW I didn't word this as articulately as would probably be beneficial; I apologize. :) But if you have thoughts on it, anything I said, I am so fascinated by it and would love to hear/discover more!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I would say that all of these models and theories provide possible insights, but still your journey is unique, and not everything here is set in stone or will apply to you. Typically a four feels unseen as a child but a five feels more invaded as a child. But we have more than one relationship when we are young, and one parent may not have seen us and another might have hovered too much. And we would have responded to this differently based on how we interpreted it. LOTS of variables! Good luck on this journey!
Based on this video, it would seem I am a Type 2 child by nature (sensitive, caring, sweet, sentimental, depressed) But a Type 1 child by nurture (judgmental, shame, irritable, easily frustrated). Or maybe I had a mix of Assertive and Withdrawn guardians? Very confusing. Definite abandonment issues.
Care Bear maybe it doesen't make sense for you because you don't remember how you (as a child) FELT. It didn't make sense for me either at first, because my grandmother raised me with so much care and protection, but as I start to remember my feelings toward this... I feelt unseen somehow. Sometimes it doesen't make sense how we feel, we just feel.
Thanks for sharing. Interesting but not sure it really correlates well to reality.
👍🏼
what about sisters with same parents? why they end up different? In different triads I mean
Can it be because I felt my mom was responsive but with my sister she was assertive?
You are each responding to your family environment from your perspective - your energy is what you were born with and it could be different, but also one of you could be responding more to a second parent if your father was also there - and if he wasn't if one of you was younger than the other you might have experienced a different environment. Mom might have been different with both of you as well. I am a mom and I have an extroverted child and an introverted child. I pushed more on the older child who was pushing me as well, the introverted child withdraws and I hover more. It can be kind of a two-way dynamic where both are reacting to what it seems the other one is doing.
girl8 parents respond differently to each child, and children go through different experiences. Preface: my dad is a withdrawn parent, my mother’s parenting changed.
My older brother is a 7, I am a 5, we are two years apart so we were raised the same. Our older sister is most likely a 2, my mom was 21 when she was born and her father and my mother didn’t end up staying together. My younger sister is a 3. Idk if I would say that she lacked attention (maybe because at this time my mother went back to college) but she was very good at basketball from a young age which my parents congratulated her on often. It made my father (withdrawn) bond with her more and both of my parents are Capricorn’s so they hold accomplishments in high regard.
Im a 6 and i had an assertive parent
Yes - I don't think this is all neat and predictable. We have two parents, also older siblings and possibly other major characters in our early life who make up our "nurture" influence. Also, you'll notice you have many different numbers show up as you recognize several common themes of survival patterns showing up in your unique profile. I thought it was fun to go through this as an exercise - and now five years later, I am seeing even deeper patterns show up in my clients - it's an amazing journey!
I’m confused about how there’s a single parent energy style? Are we assuming parents offer the same parenting style? Most are very different in how they parent
I agree. In fact, I believe that sometimes we can have two or more very different patterns inside us that feel like different enneagram numbers based on our relationships with different parents. Ultimately we all have every number inside us to one degree or another. I think this is probably why a lot of people aren't sure what number they actually line up with.
I'm just sitting here thinking: i can't embrace ordinary.. How could i when i see that no one sees me? I don't even know what's the first step
Embracing ordinary doesn't mean being ordinary - it means seeing the magic in every mundane moment - and when you do that you live in beauty and uniqueness every moment no matter what boring situation you might be in - even standing in a long line for two hours....
Aspyrre I can do that! I am excited even when I buy toothpaste. But I don't consider myself a healthy 4 yet. Thank you for the wisdom!
Best of luck to you on this journey! :)
My tritype is 9-5-4.
Childhood. was. not. fun.
same but with a 459 tritype 😔✌️