(NEW RULES) Imperialis Militia vs Word Bearers - Horus Heresy (Battle Report)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 кві 2023
- Horus Heresy Battle Report
We test out the new Militia rules as the Loyalist planetary defenders take on the Traitorous Word Bearers. We wanted to showcase what the new Militia rules and units are capable of in the grim darkness of the 31st Millennium.
The boys are playing a 1200pts game with the Blood Feud mission using the new Age if Darkness rules.
Pardo’s Blood Feud: Infrantry
DC’s Blood Feud: Cavalry
// WARHAMMER DISCOUNT \\
For amazing discounts on Warhammer 40k and more visit our sponsor: elementgames.co.uk/warhammer?...
// JOIN \\
FREE DISCORD: / discord
PATREON BENEFITS: / snbattlereports
SN+ YT: / @snbattlereports
/// FOLLOW \\
INSTAGRAM: / snbattlereports
FACEBOOK: / snbattlereports
TWITTER: / snbattlereports
// ARMY LISTS BELOW \\
**Imperialis Militia**
HQ
Force Commander
Mount, Power Sword, Carapace Armour, iron Halo, Cyber Familiar
Discipline Master Squad
Discipline Master, Power Sword, Carapace Armour
Discipline Master, Power Sword, Carapace Armour
Troops
Grenadier Squad
Shotguns
Grenadier Squad
Shotguns
Fast Attack
Militia Cavalry
9x Cavalry, Carapace Armour, Militia Spears
Militia Cavalry
9x Cavalry, Carapace Armour, Militia Spears
Heavy Support
Leman Russ
Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ
Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ
Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter
Rapier Squad
Laser Destroyer
Laser Destroyer
Laser Destroyer
**Word Bearers**
++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart (LA - XVII: Word Bearers) ++
XVII: Word Bearers
Allegiance: Traitor
+ HQ: +
Praetor: Enslaved by Darkness (Traitor only), Warlord
. Legion Praetor: Artificer Armour, Master-craft one weapon, Paragon Blade, Warpfire Pistol
. . Burning Lore
+ Elites: +
Ashen Circle: Dark Channeling, 6x Incendiary
. Iconoclast: Artificer Armour, Inferno Pistol
Ashen Circle: Dark Channeling, 6x Incendiary
. Iconoclast: Artificer Armour, Inferno Pistol
+ Troops: +
Tactical Squad
. Legion Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist
. 9x Legionaries (collective): 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolter, 9x Chain Bayonet
. Legionary w/ Options:: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chain Bayonet, Legion Vexilla
Tactical Squad
. Legion Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist
. 9x Legionaries (collective): 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolter, 9x Chain Bayonet
. Legionary w/ Options:: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chain Bayonet, Legion Vexilla
+ Heavy Support: +
Predator Squadron
. Predator: 2x Heavy Bolters, Predator Cannon
Predator Squadron
. Predator: 2x Heavy Bolters, Predator Cannon
++ Total: [1,200Pts] ++ - Ігри
🔥 If you want more awesome 30k content and want to support SN at the same time join SN+ with the below link: 🔥
ua-cam.com/channels/0puBaPD2eSSAq87lyv7sYg.htmljoin
It just goes to show what you can fit in 1500 points of 'Not Space Marines'...
I was looking at the rules and the fact that you can include more Levy than you can ever realistically fit in a deployment zone is rather satisfying.
Haha not good for the wallet though
@@SNBattleReports indeed! I'll take one of the many cheap horus heresy army options instead.
...wait.
Only just started but I want a charge of the light brigade moment with so many ponies
Yes!!! 🐴
Hey all! Great batrep as ever - love the board, the snow tracked into the base was perfect, beautiful.
Thanks Neil
Nice to see batreps where the players have painted their own models! Keep up the HH content!
Thanks 🙏🏽
Nice batrep as always! "I am bringing a tame list today" had to laugh a bit looking at the 2 units of flying torrent flamers against guardsmen :-D.
😂
haha Tame (ish) They were my new toys I just finished painting would you not do the same Michael haha I only realised they were AP 4 after we started (whoops) hehe
Of course, yes. I'm curious to see how militia will perform with a few more optimized leman russ, more heavy weapons and the +1BS providence. Ogryns also look pretty nice but flavourwise don't fit with Krieg.
@@michaelfechir5581 Yer same! We'll be playing loads more Militia soon and will try out other options for them - i'm looking forward to that but I also worry that with bigger points upgrade marine armies will just have more 'killy' units on the field
@@michaelfechir5581 there are some very nice 3d printable krieg-y ogres, though :D
An interesting look at the Militia list and some really cinematic points to the game, especially the charges of the cavalry units. It certainly emphasises some of the synergies that people will need to consider when building a pure Militia list.
Yeah for sure much more to test and more games to come
Don't know much about Militia, but does Hold Ground work to negate the charge bonus of cavalry the way it does all other charge bonuses (save a few Legion specific ones granted as part of their doctrine)?
What a fight, thank you! I loved those horse charges especially. I was planning on running some Astra Militarum, but since the Militia list drop, I am heavily considering trying it out instead! That means I can finally use (and build/ paint) my Gorgon I've had since it was first released!
Do it!!
Great batrap, very cool game. Its a bit sad the rules for militia dont give them much of a fighting chance.
Thanks Stephan, glad you enjoyed. Early days yet we’ll keep trying them out with bigger lists etc but they’ll certainly have a tough time on the table it seems!
Let’s see what a bigger list can do. Sadly not a lot of hope as The Legions will have even more to deal with it lol😅
They do seem better as allies... you can fit 18 Russ into an allied detachment.
@@paulshaw3907 yeah deffo
@@SNBattleReports I do like the needler list. Poison 3+ and pinning everywhere
Wooo! Militia! Been loving their rules so far, looking forward to watching this and am excited to convert up an army myself. Planning on using the Hobbits from the lord of the rings game as my levies!
That sounds amazing
Imo we'll see quite a few Cavalry armies as a Cav list seems to one of the few ways to bespoke build a tenable army without 160+ in infantry/levy squads or 12+ Russes. I honestly think making the Grenadiers non-compulsory (without burning a Provenance on it) might put off many Heresy players as the main appeal of this army is the modelling opportunities and converting 160 troopers is quite the undertaking to say the least. If you're gonna get tabled turn 2 either way at least you only converted up and painted 50 grenadiers.
Yeah I think if you going to loose just loose in style with 50 horses 😆
I really love the idea of a admech-adjacent "cyber zombie" horde, with Unending Horde and Cyber-Augmetics - cheap zombie hordes with feel no pain (6+), endless hordes (4+), and slow and purposeful feels very fun; although Tech-Thralls provide something very similar with FNP 5+ and stubborn for only 1 point more :(
I also love the idea of feral warriors (chainaxes, and +1WS on the charge) and debased rabble (Crusader and Hatred (Everything)) - could be very rewarding with ogryns, cavalry and infantry, with daemons or other traitor allies; and ogryn conscripts makes a very nice, evocative, ogre army too
Would be amazing
This battle report was a great example of the sort of glorious folly style of play that first happens when a space marine player starts using guard for the first time.
The idea is to use the counter attacking unit to COUNTER attack, not charge off in front of an entire fresh armies worth of bolters, buts its "cool" or something, if you want to win with guard you have to learn to bring the enemy in on your absolute wall of firepower, key problem taking the cavalry in a game this small is what it really needed was at least some heavy bolters to lay down fire to make the world eaters advance into plasma even better, while the rapiers should have focused the tanks first two turns, without this foundational firepower there was a limit to what support the army could give when the cavalry went in. When your up against an army of superhumans, sadly, its either optomise or take a loss.
😝
@@SNBattleReports Yeah I know. Still, for a good tip, it pays to think in terms of platoons. Each Guard list should be compromised of multiple platoons, each platoon should be fully equipped to tackle a wide range of threats. A 2000 point army might be 4 such platoons, or maybe 3 and a mechanised section of a couple of russ's. Then even if a half or even 3/4 of your force is destroyed, you are still combat effective. And something I used to great advantage on the old tournament scene was psychology. Lure space marine players in with sacrifical units that look too good to ignore. They are too good to ignore, eat demolition charge, and now your positioned out of sweeping advance range in front of 2 platoons worth of firepower, bitch! :P Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars and all the rest they all fall for ita s ultimatley marines want to get up close and personal. Just make sure there is enough plasma and melta for them to dance on they regret coming to the party.
^ Thats how it goes. You can think in terms of raw ferocious firepower and how many times you can force the other guy to roll armour saves (make him roll enough, he loses), or you can be nice and characterful and spend a lot of money collecting a "charming" force everyone else enjoys wailing all over for an easy win. Astram Militarum (or whatever it was called then) "dont want stupid troopers boy!"
Not watched it yet, and excited to do so :). Comment for algorithm and to mention that the up-side-down barrels on the Militia Rapiers realy realllllyyy hurt my eyes :P.
Going to watch the battle now ;)
Upside down Barrels?
@@SNBattleReports those at 6:58 ;). The lower barrels are upside-down.
@@koen7906 theyvare like that buddy
Interesting house rule re: the Artificer Armor upgrade on squad leaders. Really good idea to prevent cheese and game slow-down.
Great stuff, especially pretty board!
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed 🙂
Thanks Boss!
The Mars alpha russ has to be my favourite gw/fw model in terms of pure looks.
They look so so good
Yeah they're great, my favourite FW model is in the same boat, although basic and unglamorous i think the MIV Castraferrum Dread is the Definitive 40k model.
Awesome battle , love the narrative elements to the start of each battle , how long does it take to write these intros?
Thanks Tom! Glad you like the narrative parts! It depends on the time to write the intros - Sometimes they come to me pretty quickly and it doesn't take much time at all, other days (I find 40K loyalist marines vs marines tricky) it'll take a bit longer. Nothing more than a hour or so though!
Thanks Tom! I have seen DC has already replied to the later
@@sn_dc Amazing ! They are so well written and adds so much flavour !
Militia look super fun! Just looked over the rules and vanquisher battlecannons with coaxial autocannons look pretty nice for only +5pts!
Keep doing what you are doing as you are awesome... But also stop making me want new armies!!
Haha sorry boss 😆
This game was great lads :-) Cant wait to start up a small army of Militia :-)
Glad you enjoyed
The silver lining on the Russ' was that they're so armored third line won't come into play as much and the scarier things like lascannon heavy support squads would kill them regardless. Looking at the PDF the gravis lascannon being free is nice, the executioner plasma cannon seems like fun too if you just want to shoot at marines on foot with them
Yep agree
The second half of Third Line is pretty nice too: you can create a Levy/Tank heavy list with lots of armour and literally hundreds of infantry where your Force Commander is the ONLY model in the army you get credit for killing.
Really enjoy your battle reports. I am interested in using my Krieg as Militia in 30k!
Thanks Jon! And yer they’re perfect for 30K Militia
Thanks Jon. The Krieg are perfect for it and seems they have done the new rules based on it
Aw hell yes! Thanks lads I am super excited to see this one. Have it saved to watch tonight can't wait wuw! New army rules for an interesting army as well as the real good guys who were always right The Word Bearers 👌🏻👌🏻
🔥📖 no truer words have been spoken! Enjoy for the Glory of the Dark Gods!
Enjoy it let me know what you think after you watch
@@SNBattleReports Will do :-) Another two hours or so until I can start watching if I am lucky that is ha
I didn't know rick Priestley got a rejuvenation process
Just had my first go with Milita today. 1,500pts against World Eaters in the Dominion scenario and it was an absolute massacre. With the Alchem Jackers Provence of War option and 5 Discipline Masters dotted around my army, morale was almost completely negligible. However, I just could not kill things. He brought a pretty generic well rounded list and with 110 troops on the table, 11 Cavalry, a Malcador, 2 Rapiers, and 2 Earthshakers, I managed to remove a whopping 9 Tactical Marines, 9 Assault Marines, a Rhino, and 3 Terminators. The dice were a bit of a factor, but I think it is going to take a real deep dive to get this faction to perform. I don't particularly like Ogryns or Beast Masters, so I hope the rules don't drag me kicking and screaming in that direction, but we will see what we come up with. Leman Russ tanks and Cavalry didn't work for you. Massive blobs of Stubborn leadership 8 infantry with rerolls for morale didn't work for me. Not sure what other Tricks the Militia have to pull from their hat.
Great info thanks Corey! You're right there seems to be (other than those raiper batteries) a lacklustre performance on firepower, which I wouldn't mind if there was a way that the Militia could replenish loses to showcase the endless waves of troops or something to keep the marine player busy and always outnumbered!
Yeah Sadly the artillery which should represent there Strength is lacking
Ashen Circle looks JAWESOME !!!!!
One of my favourite models for Traitors
Watching this again ha I would love to see Militia vs Militia or Solar Auxilia that would be cool :-) I love your battle reports lots of fun plus can see all the moves really well :-) Also love HH so glad they done 2.0 was insanely expensive to get your foot in the door with the first edition. Personally I like HH and OnePageRules for my gaming.
Thanks buddy! We will soon do Traitor Militia vs Imperialis Militia
@@SNBattleReports Yes!! I also have a nie Word Bearer army so this was also great to see ha
Wonderful good sirs! ❤
Thanks 😊
I’m pretty sure they’ll get blown off the table but that guard army looks so cool…
Thanks Max. Enjoy the game
The regular Leman Russ tank is basically wortless in this edition, shamefully. Great battle though!
Yeah sadly
Great BR guys, love the models. DC rolling nearly average :D Come on the Word Bearers! Guess the Militia need some more fine tuning...
Thanks Tom!
thanks Tom
Great battle report and talk at the end too. Battle cannons are very disappointing into legion lists.
With artificer amour the way we play is to use a different color dice to represent the sergeant when we roll all the saves together. So only one wound allowed to be saved. Paying 10 points to save one dice may seem harsh but I feel that protecting the vital leadership, extra attack and any special weapons is worth the 10 points but not broken. Its also much faster and more enjoyable when playing.
With my Iron Warriors I don't take any artificer amour as it doesn't fit my head cannon. Iron warriors are made to die and not wear shiny floral amour haha.
Thanks 🙏🏽
Good way to do it to
Lovely bat rep guys
Thanks!
Great game as always. Wouldn't the rapier team get cover saves from being behind the pipes?
I was thinking this too
You're right Nightspawn! Good call we didn't notice that during the game
Thats very true a 6+
Not really sure the best way to use them, their saving grace over solar is they can get heavy weapons outside of the heavy support section, but it's not going to be an easy army to play. A baneblade won't give victory points for whatever that's worth. There are some interesting combos but for the most part marines can just win out with brute strength 9 times out of 10. Still it's a "fun" army book. Lots of creative detail went into it.
Ok hear me out...penal solar cohort vs militia. Who will win that meme battle.
😆
@@SNBattleReports Its a worthy request to ask now that militia rules are out.
For that matter you should house rule that whenever DC rolls below average he gets the average when facing Pardo so that its a fair game 0.o
😂
the ashen circle would have been able to reroll the saves against the battle cannon because they have the heavy subtype
Thanks Bill! We catch it later on and sort it, but you have sharp eyes (and ears) hope you enjoyed!
Yeah Pardo catches that a bit after. Hope you enjoyed it
Nice to see it on the table.
Doesn't the militia morale rules mean that the lost checks are an auto wipe if the unit is below 50%? there is no roll-off to see if you get swept.
Thats if you get charged when you are falling back
Levy squads specifically are destroyed if they fail a morale check. Regular militia are still fragile but not that bad.
Poor Pardo, finally starts earning new guard in 40k and now has to learn a whole new system with the same units. Has to be confusing
Thanks Logan, but don't go easy on him - he deserves the punishment! 😆
Haha yeah man my head was all over
I get mixed up when I play different lists of the same army lol its gonna take me forever to learn militia
@@logan9900 haha same! I took one glance at their rules and thought ‘not today’ haha but I’ll get around to playing them for sure!
I think at lower points you might just not have enough boots on the ground. Think with Russes that actually work as well would have been a bit more of a threat. Still some cool moments and they are all going to die anyway 😂. Great vid chaps
Thanks Sam! We're going to play with higher points levels with the Militia to see what they're like with more troops etc
Glad you enjoyed Sam
That what should happen when "standard" human (even well trained) meet marines)
True 😆
Could you clarify the points total being used? The militia intro said 1500, but the marine list was described as 1200
1200pts Théo
It's sad that blast templates are so bad. Militia depend on blast templates. Just thinking the medusas can't reliably kill a marine is silly. The whole idea is that the tanks and artillery are supposed to even the playing field. I know that blast templates could make things hit really hard in 1st edition, but there was a solution. Artillery dice. They could have made tanks and artillery roll artillery dice when shooting. Misfires are how they balanced artillery in WHFB.
Misfires where great and you dreaded that roll and seeing a misfire haha but I agree I like templates overall but it is still a bit clunky as a mechanic
Agree the Artllery and tanks should be great and the strong point for them but with hardly anything having a good AP against them it will be hard and down to luck with breaking and rending shots
Unfortunately from the look of it so far the militia and cults list has no legs what so ever. They are always going to struggle into majority marine lists unless you're full spamming some of the better units (rapiers and cheap lascannon teams), however if someone was to bring a strong marine list with a few dreads and terminators I don't think there's much a militia player could do. Great game otherwise, fun to watch. Keep up the good work!
Thanks KinkyMustard (love the name haha) and yer I agree from what I’ve seen, but I’m not expert on militia! I think you’re right spamming certain units might help, but I suspect it wouldn’t be as fun to play with, given the theme of the army. Im looking forward to trying some Traitor Militia soon!
Remeber also the game is only being played at 1500pts, which the rule set isn't optimised for, might find they play better at 3000
@@robertanstee443 it’s a good point! I think we discuss that at the end of the video, loads more games to come with the Militia! 😃
Just from an initial look, I think they can be good, just not casually. There are some incredible provenance synergies that can probably build strong armies, but just throwing together random units you like seems like it will always build a terrible list. People talk a lot about comparative strength of units and legions, but pretty much everything in the Legiones is somewhat viable. The same is obviously not true of militias. Honestly, I would not be surprised if a legion list designed to be deliberately bad is still better than a casually thrown-together militia list.
Yeah sadly i really thing the higher the points the more things on the battlefield for the legions which we can’t cater for 😔
When's the studio 1200pt 600 strong zombies as levy squads coming? That'll show dc, he won't physically be able to shoot them all. Legal army too XD
Zombies?
Yea just use Levy squads? 2pts each ws2 bs2. If they fail ld they'll probably run away anyway so just take em off to maintain the narrative
You can have 50 in a squad and three squads in one troops choice and you can have 8 troops choices so you could have. 1200 bodies on the table for 2400pts :D.... totally legal army (+ a hq)
Oh and you can take the unending hordes provenance so you can just bring them back on if they die on a 4+. You might wanna ban this list from no retreat events XD.
Does not have to be zombies, could be mechanicum sevitors, weird alien snake men, cultist horde like in calth
@@latro666 imagine the cost of having 1200 bodies and painting them! Ouch!
@@SNBattleReports you know someone is gonna do it!
Don't the Ashen Circle get to re-roll saves against blast weapons because of their heavy sub-type?
Yea sir!
hello all, nice video you have here that underlines all the problems of the human armies in this edition . the choices in the militia list where not very spot on so the outcome is to be expected. it is clear though that the list was made with what was available. L russes with bcannons do not worth their ink on the list. russes with bcannons are dead in this edition. period. FW ruined all of them in the edition with the exceptions of vanquishers , ok you can have 1 executioner or smth and thats about it. the rest are not simply bad they are horrible. cav are ok but are situational. and then we have numbers. the list was way too small. rapiers are great but you need hordes to cover them and advance and grind the hell out of the opposition.
Agreed FrankyFes! It seems that the battlecannon seems pretty underwhelming, I don't mind them losing units/assets quickly as it's thematic but they do need either more bodies on the ground to showcase how the human armies are vast in number or perhaps some sort of reinforcements that can keep coming from the table edge to showcase the waves and waves of troops? Dunno just throwing ideas out there!
@@sn_dc well rocket rapiers with shred, waves with alchemjackers and moral officers to bog down anything, vanquisers, the new cadian rockets also very good. put in some ogryns and a few horses and some air and at 2k points you have a 300 horde with support to grind down the opposition. vanquisers to kill dreads , rapiers an caliopes to rain down death and pinning in 5 inch blasts etc....
Totally agree after waiting so long it seems the army will just get washed off the table every time
Just 10 minutes in but a little confused: Are you playing 1500 points or 1200? because the description says 1500 but the WB list seems to be 1200
Good spot just fixed it it’s 1200
If you fire at rapiers, shouldn't you use the rapier Resistance value?
What is this? I didn’t know this existed
???
I think they maybe where they should be narratively (transhumans on the battlefield should be a terrifying sight) but their points are just way off.
For the points you should get a horde of them compared to astartes.
Need to try them a bit more and at higher points then will do a review about them
Yeah - I think they suffer from similar problems that guard had in old editions of 40k - narratively the losses hurt the marines much more than the militia but there's never been a satisfying way of representing that on the tabletop. Unending horde is a good idea but I wonder if a reinforcements system would be better, that could give you a points handicap. The way I see it reading the list, the only builds I can see winning would be spamming leman russ with Vanquisher and executioner plasma, and Ogryn hordes
I hate that house rule because its not a problem in 90% of the games. The only person that should use the rule is Pardo whos dice are always above average.
Not a problem? 😯
Them humies is too squishy, yooz need ter have da beakies fight da boys in the Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How come you didn’t get the +1 for changing (Milita)
Is that a thing?
???
I just assumed they would get the +1 attack like everyone else, but don’t know if militia have a rule that takes that away?
Aren't the rapiers toughness 5 from the start because they are bulky 4? Or am I just making things up lmao
Its majority in the unit. So having more crewman makes the unit use the crewman toughness until it’s iquL
@@SNBattleReports yeah, just looked it up, I was under the impression that bulky makes it count as more models straight up, not just for transport and outnumbering. Seems like a bit of a miss, how annoying! Thankfully I haven't used mine yet and got it wrong lol, thanks :)
@@lesbianmorgoth652 yeah shame isn’t it
@@SNBattleReports huge shame. they're still good, but it just seems like a common theme for the pdf to be cool and OK, but hard to actually make anything do really well with how strong marines are in comparison :/
Excellent video. You have inspired me to collect an army of disposal arseholes. I mean brave militia...
Haha enjoy
Hello! Loved the game and those are some fantastic forces! As a militia player from 1.0 I have to be honest and say that Militia are in no way competitive. With the current rules it will be such a struggle against even the most toned down legion list, GW needs to do some serious rewrites or give them some sort of boost because most of their heavy gun/ tank options are useless against anything with a 2+ save or heavy. Still a great game overall but be prepared to be disappointed haha
Totally agree will be difficult for them for sure
Completely agree, I feel like heavy was an unnecessary addition to the game. Could've just buffed the invuln save on Cataphractii. Heavy plus artificer armour means even the best militia options are going to be countered most of the time.
Cool to see militia, but man their rules seem pretty bad :/ reverse codex creep 😂
It probably matches horus heresy lore, normal humans vs marine legion would end really bad most of the time
Yer I agree Peter! It wouldn't be right for them to be bringing down Astartes with ease, but also they need either more bodies (points drops) or tweaks to some of the weapons (like battle cannons) to even the playing field a little
Agree Peter! Their artillery though should be much stronger the lack of AP in a problem
@@sn_dc yep their infantry should def melt, but I feel like the Russ is a huge disappointment they need some rend
The marines should use their max coherency of 2" so not every dude is under a small template.
Glad you didn't fix it to show the militia being good, weakest army but the most fun.
You’re right Meowing Cat good idea for future games, I like to play casually with it though but it’s helpful advice! And yer Militia have an uphill struggle against power armour!
Yeah could have
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Enjoy Buddy
Don't WB win draws? So could have won that fight
You’re right! By +1, was having too much fun to worry about these things haha
Didn’t need it haha but yeah forgot about that
Militia aren't really a competitively viable list in the current edition. Previous editions the hordes of rending, fear causing cultists could get you there - they never gave victory points and were able to punch out a disgusting number of attacks and in this edition that... just isn't there.
No single unit in the army is GOOD. As you mentioned, dreadnoughts are a HUGE problem for them to deal with, outside of Rapier battery spam.
You can make some exceedingly annoying lists - using nothing but Third Line and Expendable units, combined with an allied in Callidus assassin you can essentially deny all VPs beyond Slay the Warlord but even then... You have to put in a LOT of work with your third line vehicles.
The only place I've seen (from personal experience) that cults have been particularly useful is allied into Questoris Knights.
By taking Cybernetic Augments and Kinfolk Helots, for less than 400 points (The price of 2 Armigers) you can get 9 Battlesmith rolls. Admittedly, 6+ / 5+, but there's a few other units that can give a little edge to Knight lists, giving them access to things they don't usually have. (Yes, the units already have FNP but the Medicae are 'Characters' and therefore put out a Battlesmith 6+ roll). They're also very useful meatshields for literally standing in front of your knights.
Commander 100 - Muster of Worlds: Kinfolk Helots and Cyber Augments
Cyber Familiar 10
4 Levy Squads 160
4 extra levy 8
4 Medicae 52
Thunderbolt 120
450 points
I would argue that pure Militia lists aren't meant to be able to mix it with Astartes, Mechanicum or Custodes. Having said that, there's a few ideas I have for Militia headaches:
- Mass cavalry with Lances and the Providence of +1WS on the charge.
- Lascannon overload and +1BS Providence. I'd pair this with either +1T to keep them alive or +1Ld to keep them on the table after their friends get zapped.
- Leman Russ spam. Sure, Third-Line is a big issue but it's also a way of including some much needed anti-tank fire (Vanquisher, Lascannons) or anti-infantry (Executioner cannon).
Ironically, human waves probably won't cut it. All it would take to remove whole squads is a. Volkite unit of any description.
@@dankirk25 Leman Russ Spam is probably best kept to Vanquisher shots. Given they come with Co-axial auto cannons (for that much required reroll to hit) and don't give up VPs when killed, you can make a Very Annoying list with that kind of thing.
Mass Cav charges sound great on paper but they just don't cut it. The fact it's one attack per model at a lower Int count that most marines just doesn't work. Heaven forbid you have to run into anything like Palatine Blades, who're not only higher Int and weapon skill than you but have 2+ saves.
And the final problem is one up in the Leman russ bit. It's VPs. Missions that give VPs per unit killed or Attrition or units killed in the first turn... Those games can very, VERY easily be a first turn loss if you take any units at ALL that don't have Expendable / Third Line.
That said - I LOVE the army. It's SUPER cool. But it's BAD. Like. Makes 'Iron Circle look good' bad.
@@dankirk25 none of the units which gain +1 BS can take lascannons - only "Imperialis Militia Grenadier Squad, Imperialis Militia Command Cadres, and Discipline Masters"
@@playfulruss4227 Well spotted. Puts a slight crimp in an otherwise respectable plan!
@@dankirk25 still a good plan; honestly i feel like many listing sessions and games lie ahead of working out what works, where - or just throwing it to the wind and bringing what one has :D It's fun, although i wish modelling opportunities were cheaper.
Just dont understand why they dont let Russes take sponsors 🤦♂️