Are Pedals Still Better Than Multi-Effects?
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- Опубліковано 17 бер 2024
- Episode 99: Are Pedals Better Than Multi-Effects?
Welcome to the Chairmen of the Boards Podcast! The ultimate pedalboard podcast with the foremost rig builders in the world: Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio), Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio), and Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects/The Rig Doctor). We've teamed up to democratize great tone and provide you with our best tricks, tips, resources and hacks so you can build the pedalboard of your dreams!
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#minipedals #guitarpedals #effectspedals
I stopped hauling a 50 lb. pedal board to gigs 1.5 years ago when I got an HX Stomp LX. In the gigging environment, the benefits of having a compact multi-effects pedal wins for me. Plus, having access to prebuilt per-sets from so many great online sources is huge. I tried several multi-effects pedals in the past but they always fell short, the new generation of pedals fixes that.
great discussion. I started with pedals, and for modulation at one point had a Phase 90, Micro Flanger, SC10 Chorus on my board. Replaced with a Mobius and now have roto as well, but also different flavors. But for drive/boost, I'm pedal all the way.
My Two Cents. About 20 years ago I was playing with a guitar player who had a KILLER tone. He was playing a Les Paul through a Hughs and Ketner tube amp and his overdrive was from a combination of Boss pedals and MXR pedals. For some reason I still do not understand, he sold ALL of them and grabbed a Boss GT 3. The singer and I were HORRIFIED at how drastically the sound disappeared. We BEGGED him to repurchase his pedals but he wouldn't budge because the GT 3 "Gave him more sounds and was easier to use when setting up a set list"
Years later when we reconnected I handed him his GT 3 which he had LOANED to me after the band had broken up. He laughed said he couldn't believe I still had it, was excited to play it again, he played it...and promptly sold it after he did.
You'd think this would have clued me into the fact I am not a huge multi effects guy....but here I am currently struggling with an HX Stomp and wishing I had something like a Vertex SSS or Ultra Phonix as well as a decent bass preamp pedal. So honestly, its what you're used to. If you start out with a multi effects unit, upgrading as you go along can be a blessing. If you start out with some killer analog pedals as well as a few digital...then go ALL digital....it can really be a shock to the musical system and can turn what was a rich organic sound...right on its ear.
I went through that when I got the Boss GT-5. Up until then I'd been strictly pedals and the processor was so new I had to order it and wait a few weeks. When I paid for it the guy behind the counter handed me the manual and told me to go home and study it. Needless to say studying the manual did no good whatsoever because I had no experience with a digital board so when it finally came I was so lost. Not only that but the manual had been poorly translated to English from Japanese. It took me months to finally get the hang of programming and to find decent sounds that I wouldn't be embarrassed to play with, and another few months to perfect those LoL. I finally perfected it so well that other players would come backstage and be surprised when they saw it because it sounded as if I was using pedals.
The Adriatic delay is a Boss DM-2 with the Adrian Mod. It seems pretty clear you didn’t know much about the HX One before offering thought on it.
For a beginner. I often recommend the TC plethora x3. It is the most like a standalone pedal and gives you access to some pretty solid tones out of the box.
Ultimately, you do need to know what you are trying to achieve, and it should inspire you, not frustrate you, that may include frustration with price, sound, usability, etc.
For me, the HX Stomp was the most accessible financially speaking, and still inspires me to play new things (though most of that comes from the guitar) I have added a Strymon reverb for some more ambient tones, and a boss OC-5 for octave down tones that just don’t cut it in the HX Stomp.
I was looking for reverbs and delays, and listening to a lot of videos on UA-cam and the one that had me convinced was the one Mason did on the Source Audio Ventris, and Collider. I checked the H90, the Strymons, Boss 500 series, etc. H90 turn off is the dictionary that comes with it, too much is too much. I want to play guitar, not work for Nasa. Strymons V2 were interesting but still. The sound quality, simplicity of use and midi capabilities got me for Source Audio. I got the Collider and its an awesome pedal. Its so good i am looking for other Source audio pedals. I would not go for all individual reverb and delay pedals covering all the SA Collider can do, and does great.
Back in the day Line 6 pod XT live on the floor. Definitely dated but had a place in the home studio.
FIRST!!! Haha. I think pedals like the HX1 are great (by function). I'm not a HX1 user, but I do think a slick addition to any board is a pedal that can be a chameleon. For me that is the Source Audio C4 Synth... it's standard size (single pedal), infinitely programmable, can do almost any sound in a pinch, and can stack sounds. It has MIDI and can cover lots of ground on new sounds without me having to purchase an additional pedal. I also have the SA Collider as well Mason... which saved space because it replaced my Fathom Reverb, but also added a delay. #PlayMoreBass
I have the LVX in my pedal rack for wet fx on leads and cleans. Debating on using my fractal FM9 as a multi fx for gigs, or hauling my big heavy RJM pedal rack.
The thing that disenchant me is the lack of headroom with modelling stuff
I found a video 11 years ago of this guy playing Voyage To Atlantis that was posted by PLUMBdogg when i was first starting. His sounded just like the song. The effects he was using was coming from a BOSS ME-50 iirc. The Isley Bros (Ernie Isley specifically) and Parliament-Funkadelic are the biggest inspiration behind the reason i wanted to play.
I ended up buying some pedals from Amazon to match the sound he had, but didnt care for them. The FX chaining and having to have power for each pedal was an inconvenience to me. I eventually found Guitar Rig 5, which had everything in one place and I LOVED that. FX chaining in GR5 was as simple as dragging and dropping. Way more convenient imo.
Recently i decided i wanted a hardware multi-FX pedal so i wouldnt be stuck at the computer all the time to play. I got a Helix. Love it as well. For me, i want everything together in one place and i dont wanna be bothered with multiple pedals/pedalboards and worrying about physical FX chains.
Something important that's always missing from these discussions: multi-effects with signal chains can stack modules to better emulate more complicated algorithms of individual pedals. Your HX Stomp isn't outperforming your Strymon reverbs? Try pairing (or throupling) HX reverbs and then tell me it's not good enough.
A great topic for a video and nicely done. Personally it seems there are so many variables with guitarists that the question of pedals or multi effects is virtually impossible to answer for other guitarists.
There are endless considerations. Budget, application, expectations, portability, technical aptitude, live / studio / practice use, experience, switching requirements, etc.. The consideration list can go forever and each list item can branch in so many directions.
Add to that the old saying that one man's trash is another man's treasure and the question seems really difficult to answer beyond ones own personal opinion. No?
Nonetheless, it's a very valid question and lots of great points to consider brought out. I wonder if the sheer quantity of both types of products on the market is in itself some indication of how extensive the considerations are in answering this question for players...?
Not sure if another commenter has mentioned that the Adriatic delay is DM 2 emulation and not the echorec.
Yep, manual says "BOSS DM-2 w/ Adrian Mod"
It is a matter of economics and size/weight. I am down to a midi controller, gt1000core used with a parrallizer (time based effects only). Every effect known to mankind, instant switching, programmability, spillover, etc. for the price of a few boutique pedals. I can make adjustments very quickly on the unit itself. No downside. I may add some front end pedals at some point as required but for now, guitar plugs into the front end of my Satriani JVM410-HJS.
Individual pedals for me.
I like a lot of quirky things like a Gen Loss or a Swan Hunter or an Atreides.
Odd ball stuff that I don’t think a multi effect unit will do.
I really hate menu diving. Give me knobs.
Not liking menu diving is completely valid and I can totally get wanting real pedals just for the ease of use compared to a multi effects. But saying that a multi effect can't make the same sounds as a generation loss is just silly because they are both digital. Of course they could both sound the same
I switched over to rack based multi-effects units a few years ago with the Lexicon PCM80 and Lexicon MPX1 and haven't looked back yet...If I was to build another pedalboard, it definitely has to have at least one good multi-effects pedal like the H9 or the HX1.
Well, I am definitely a pedal guy. Love them all. But I use a BOSS GX-100 in my band. Light, twikeable and it has all that I need without complication. To be completely honest, I use a Digitech Drop and the GX-100. Happy as I can be.
Thanks for the video. Fun to watch while I practice my licks. For a newb, get something like a Kat so you'll know what to chase after before spending big bucks. For entertaining an audience live in different venues an easy, simple, "dial-able on the face" setup makes performing effective and fun. But I suppose if you are into recording, or a bedroom guitarist chasing tones... a multi effects unit is likely the way to go. Thanks again.
I have an M9, which I bought for convenience, and Swiss Army Knife stuff. I also own a lot of the individual pedals (script stuff, boss stuff etc, Belle Epoche, Strymon etc), but really use the M9. It’s 90-95% there… but totally a worthy trade of for work, to have the ability to draw it up within seconds. When you need an analog echo, the gig or session won’t care if it’s a *real* analog echo. just that you have something to offer that sounds good.
Plus for $200….you just can’t compare….
Grant, I'm with you in Line6. I've been using an HX Effects for 4 yrs as my catch all for delay, verbs and modulations and I would describe the sounds as "underwhelming"
I mix both cuz Im bad a making decisions, sometimes the multi is enough, sometimes the stomp pedals is enough. Then there are times when I have one wishing I had the other. Doing open mics in philly, having a small rig is best for setup and travel.
I was about to get Plethora X3 bcs i wanted to explore some effects which I wouldn't buy separately and for this purpose I still think it's great. But then I got crazy good deal on DD-8 so I went that path, I usually only use eq and delay in my fx loop, sometimes chorus. Now I'm glad I chose individual boxes so i can move them around, in front of amp distortion (comp, phase, flanger - I think all of those are in Plethora and it would bother me I "have" them but can't put them in front of an amp while keeping delay in fx loop - that's reserved to those advanced units you mentioned). So I'm happy I can put those extra boxes like a fuzz, flanger etc. here and there occasionally.. and leave some of them on the shelf (you can't do it with presets :) ). PS: I think DD200 is easily worth the extra $$, I'd definitely get that if I didn't find DD8 used for like 40 % of the price.
I use the Plethora on my board and I love it (using for electric and acoustic shows). Tweaking it on the fly is so easy and building your own patches are just as simple.
Plethora X5 has an effects loop and can be setup with an always-on loop with 5 other effects, or a switchable loop with up to 4 other effects. The loop can be placed anywhere on the effects chain, including before, after, or anywhere in between the 5 main effects slots. With that, one could setup a few effects before the amp, and a few more on the amp's effects loop, 4-wire style. Only caveats: the X5 is stereo in and out, but it's effect loop is mono. No dirt pedals in the Pleths and quite power hungry at 600ma for the X5.
Sounds terrific (to me) and its pedals are fully tweakable using your phone or PC. Note that they ONLY provide TC effects line such as the Corona, Hypergravity, HOF2, Flashback2, Vortex etc.
Love H90, H9, Strymon’s agree that Line 6 algorithms are not as good sounding. Have been doing some recording sessions of late with just a boost, drive and H90. Sounds really nice.
I cant stop using my boss me25 still.with headphones nothing better
Mason I have a question for you in hope you can help, I'm using a fender strat on my board is moreley crazy horsie, boss dymanic wah, boss compressor boss synth rat distortion, ehx soul food ehx bass clone the canyon delay and fender hammer tone reverb, I know Richie Sambora has on his fender a Floyd rose, I'm trying to get that sound Richie gets on the song save a prayer and most of the keep the faith, these days era but something a miss do you have an idea what distortion or Fuzz he's using?
I always thought it was a Talk Box and a Marshall JMP100 or JCM800.
@@VertexEffectsInc that would be a different song you’re thinking of🙂
In my opinion, the bucket brigade effects have not been recreated well enough in digital form. I bought an MD200 Boss multi Modulation pedal and the tremolo was really weird, the choruses had no warmth and, the Rotary slow speed was not good! So I went back to CE2 Waza and boss tremolo. Maybe I should try the mobius!
The only sounds multi-FXs do well/better, are sounds that originated with that Multi-FX … but individual pedals are better for most everything. I personally dislike the ‘sheen’ that Strymon and similar put over your sound … Old school analog fuzz, phasers, etc etc is where it’s at for me …
For a beginner a good option would either be the katana amplifier or the spark amplifier series. When you combine the spark and the new spark cabinet you can gig with the little amplifier when it was only the 40 watt you could gig as long as there were no drummers. However with the cabinet it plays very loud very much multi effects but it's an amplifier modeler. Doesn't quite put it in their with some of the high-end modelers. There are a couple that are more than that whole spark setup financially so technically speaking even though there are things that could be improved upon in the spark line that is a great way for a beginner to go. They get the experience of learning how to map their effects while they're playing on something that gives decent sound at loud volumes if you think about it you could even go with the new spark live and play a gig with that or two of them for under $1,000 for two plus tax which is a lot in California lol anyway I'm just trying to make a point what has happened in the industry is technology has advanced drastically suddenly that does not mean that the older style pedals will ever go away they're unique The board I've been building for the last 6 months to a year by acquisition and lots of labor I've decided to go with some hot spots so that I can trade out certain pedals and not have all of them on the board at once everything is based on an ES8 switcher which in a way makes all of my pedals into one giant multi effects box. But like all multi-effects the issue is trying to keep it as simple clean and with great tone as you can. Remember everyone hears a little differently so getting the sound you want out of this combination can be hard if you have a tin ear of course the other problem with the spark and cabinet system right now is getting a controller that will do what the ES8 will do so you can set all of your loops in any order that would be beneficial for the spark to upgrade to some kind of a system more like the ES8 also giving us a few more spots to plug things in because the limit right now on the spark has a downfall we put our EQ in a weird part of the loop and then you cannot use other effects such as chorus and stuff like that it's essential that we have eight spots that we can self-program I guess we could call it spark 2.0 The other thing it must have is a preamp out and a back in a loop like on old amplifier so that when you're using the cabinet you keep the sound coming out of the original spark but now the original spark does not have preamp out so once you plug into the cabinet you lose that 40 w and you lose those speakers which would have been beneficial in the mid-range and high sounds. There I am writing a review. Sorry about that guys.
Analog single pedal are always reliable it stands for years and doesn’t change sound even if we put it pedal chain. I used to have different multi fx but they don’t last or there preset sound change over time other than which came from factory.
My only pedal that could be classified as multi. Would be the dream scape.
Dreamscape is great!
it looks like the rv200 has been updated and fixed!
VERTEX, you should do a lesson about how guitar pedals are PULLING Current even when the guitar pedal is turned OFF. If you purchase a 1spot mA meter power supply it has a current mA meter built in which will display how much current is pulling from the power supply or battery even when the guitar pedal is turned OFF. This creates noises and sucking current off your power supply even when the guitar pedals are turned OFF which most guitar pedals will be pulling 5mA to 100mA even when the guitar pedal is turned OFF. If you have 10 or 20 guitar pedals on a pedal board when when all the guitar pedals are turned OFF that is mA X 10 pedals or X 20 pedals = Idle current which is really like an Eddy Current just sucking and pulling current from your power supply. They are making rechargeable battery power supplies now which this will DRAIN the rechargeable battery even when the guitar pedals are turned OFF and also not guitar plugs into the input jacks of the guitar pedals it doesn't matter the guitar pedal will still be draining the battery. You should make a lesson about this because most think if you REMOVE the input jack plug that the battery is also disconnected but its not its still pulling current from the battery. Do a lesson about rechargeable battery power supplies for guitar pedal boards. My Main point is the the guitar pedals footswitch is NOT turning OFF the power supply DC jack also which it should be doing but its not which is pulling current and draining off the battery.
I have analog distortion pedals and strymons etc… and bought a FM9 and I would say is TOO good but it was clearly the best digital sound multifx but never ever compares to individuals
Like 190 from me. Thanks for sharing. Great video. Multi Effects for me. Best wishes from the UK. 🎶🎶🎶🎶😎😎
Overall, single pedals are better than multi-pedals, absolutely. But a big part of the equation is a convenience thing--monetarily and functionally. With multi-effects, you get JUST enough of the sounds you need, but gain a great amount of functionality that is not possible with single effects without having to spend a bunch more money to satisfy. MIDI is something that comes to mind often. I've come to really see it as the deal-maker/breaker. In modern multi-effects pedals, you get spoiled by having MIDI integration so you can recall a complex chain of tones at the push of a button, eliminating the ol' "tap dance" so you can focus on performance. That includes control over your amp's channel switching in-combination with the effects in the loop AND in the front end. If you're someone like me who likes to perform--instead of just stare at the floor all night--there's no alternative for that other than just not using effects at all. I'm pretty much set with a guitar, amp, delay, phaser, octave/pitch-shift, chorus and a compressor. But even with that, you still want to make patches of those effects that you can recall with a single button. It's non-negotiable.
Knob per function always wins.
A high quality individual effect pedal will sure get ya there way quicker. Multi effects are awesome. But compared to these top tier pedal builders spending time, energy and money on building a “chorus”, it’s never exactly the same.
I tour a fractal fm9, and gladly use my board and amps when time and money allow. I love my multi effects, and love my individual pedals.
In this discussion I don’t like that they include timeline and bigsky as “multi”. I see the logic, but if they are multi effects, what’s having an individual reverb pedal then? Carrying around a plate, or spring reverb tank? Having multiple types of reverb doesn’t make it a multi effect in my brain. The HX one is a multi effect (which I own and get great use out of), a timeline is a “delay” pedal. But my timeline sounds way better than my hx one delay algos.
Eggcelent Episode!
When you properly A-B line 6 fx(like i have) you will find out line 6 have great algorithms and hold up to the analog counter parts
It replaces all the basic things especially delay and drive pedals
Its not fair comparing eventide, strymon pedals to line 6😂
Compare line 6 to the basic pedals thats where it shines
Multis are amazing for real world gigging musicians (real world I mean, regular john doe playing small and medium clubs around their city or country). It’s practical for travelling, less heavy that 12 pedals and most importantly, for a majority of venues, where the acoustics are horrible, sound tech is lazy and places there are very noisy… nobody will ever notice the difference.
You can get really good sounds out of it, just need a good taste and to be careful not to use too much of everything.
Pedals are amazing for recording for example, when you want the best sound the simplest way possible. 🙏🏼🤘🏼
Processors are great money savers and some people prefer the clean sounds. Nothing can beat the sounds of pedals.
Most pedals are just processors….
@@dingbatjack1234I was referring to multi-effect processors... Helix, etc
what I don't see in guitar fx, which I find surprising (new to electric guitar, long time pc DAW user) is MIDI or otherwise, control of multiple pedals all together. Like a multi-fx CONTROLLER! creating presets and combining individual pedals in a master controller kind of way. Why don't pedals have control voltage inputs/MIDI as a standard baffles me! So much wasted opportunity!
Many pedals do have midi, cv, or expression control. To control them you would use some type of switcher (examples: fender switchboard, boss es5) to create and control presets, manually automate parameters with expression, keep everything tempo synced, etc.
These switchers usually have the ability to control midi, as well as put standard analog pedals in their own effects loops so multiple pedals can be put in, or taken out of the signal chain all at the same time.
This is how I have my board setup, definitely extra work to set up, but for live it's a must for me.
I hope I understood your comment properly, cheers
What you ask for, if I get your meaning correct, has been done sonce the late 70-ties by Bradshaw, Rocktron, Pete Cornich, Art, Roland etc etc etc in racksystems and pedal. Midi-controllers. I have ised that since the late 80-ties. Programchange, CC messages etc etc via midi.
Check Source Audio products
🎉🎉🎉🎉 it’s the endless riddle of why the companies do what they do.. when they do have midi pins it jacks the price by double. Yea I get the collectors want to collect pedals but the musicians want work flow. So companies see the collectors are willing to pay for crap that doesn’t work and the musicians are left with archaic technology. Because tub amps have souls and some germanium diodes can’t be replicated or whatever but DSP circuitry is crushing hearing aids and all manner of sound processing so I welcome the technology and hope the collectors get out of the way a little bit because once companies develop better technology everyone wins.
Strymonvirate
They never were.