Do you know of any rig builders that we didn't include on this list? Tell us in the comments below! TABLE OF CONTENTS: 00:00 Introduction 00:52 Fictitious Pedalboard Example 02:52 Material Costs 03:27 Pedalboard Surface Cost 04:50 Ziptie & Mount Cost 05:33 Velcro Cost 06:05 Audio Cable Cost 07:06 Power Cable Cost 08:21 Labor Costs 09:21 Rig Builder Categorization 09:47 Master Builders 10:47 Journeyman Builders 12:37 Apprentice Builders 14:41 Rig Builders Near YOU! 16:48 Conclusion
Aaaaaaand that's why I ended up doing the labor myself. Once I got the materials/pedals together, it actually wasn't difficult at all to get a rock solid rig done. I didn't end up using custom power or audio cables (used True Tone's supplied power leads and a mix of EBS Flat and Tour Gear Designs), but now I have a true stereo ampless midi controlled rig in 7 Cable Method. Huge thanks to all the great resources on this channel for helping me along the way!
Totally viable to DIY this, in fact, this is what this channel is really all about. However, some want to hire other people to do it and this video is showing them some of the basic info they'll need.
Have always built my own just because of cost. Buy the wood, cut to size, build platforms and screw together if needed. Usually trim the outside with aluminum. I don't paint mine. I like the oak wood color so I finish with Minwax Polycrylic clear satin finish and just put on strips of velcro or dual lock across so I can swap pedals as I inevitably will do. Buy a good quality power supply, used Strymon on the last couple I've built. Ordered all my jacks, wire from Bestronics last time but have use other brands in the past. I like being able to order everything I need from them and they have good pricing. Been soldering since I was a kid (still feel every guitarist should learn to solder) so do all of that myself. My cable runs aren't the cleanest because I swap stuff around a lot but all the materials usually cost me $100-300 depending on size of board. I also mount jacks into the side of my pedal risers for running cables back to my amps. I get a lot of compliments on my boards. I've made about 6 now, all different sizes. I often think it would be cool to have a "pro built one", but in the end the money savings alone would keep me from ever doing it. Add in knowing that it's my design makes it feel a bit more special as well.
Totally legit reasons, and this video isn’t attempting to talk you out of the diy route. Simply shining light on the reality of material costs and the range of labor costs as it can be difficult to understand where the money goes if you’ve not done this before. Of course we always emphasize the DIY route as that’s what this channel is all about and democratizing the pro rig builder tricks as much as possible.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah, I totally get the point of the video and showing the cost breakdown. I was just saying I could personally never get past the labor pricing and occasional material mark up I have seen for a "pro rig". I understand someone not trying to re-roof their house alone by themselves, but learning to solder and make your own cables (which with all the online instruction out there today is very easy to do) vs. paying someone $1,000 or more to do it is just one of those things I can't grasp and I'm glad your videos focus on the DIY approach as there isn't any reason someone who can spend years learning to play an instrument can't spend an hour learning to use a soldering iron.
@@therealdealblues the choice is there for those that want it. Again that why we provide resources on this channel so there is a free option that won't sacrifice on quality and still have all the same options available to you.
For simple-ish to moderately complicated pedalboards, if you can’t rout some custom cables and stick some Velcro on objects then I have a hard time believing that you even have enough brains to play the guitar. $2800 just for labor, cables, Velcro and zip ties??? I’m not intentionally trying to be negative, but sheesh you’ve got to be kidding me. I have $1500 worth of pedals (12 pedals total) in a custom hard case that I spent less than $300 and 4 hours building, and it works absolutely perfectly and looks good too. It’s just a 5 cable setup (some pedals through FX loop and some between the guitar and the amp input + Marshall 6 way channel selector), but it’s absolutely perfect. I’m thrilled that I could potentially make $2000+ building pedalboards and am not knocking the guys who build them professionally, but for the customers out there… come on dudes… it’s not that hard to do it yourselves.
If you think you can do it as well as professional we have all the resources here so you can learn to solder and route cables properly like a professional. A lot of people think it's easy until they try to do it on a professional level and have it work and function on the level of a pro rig. It's a lot like 50 year old men that still think they can play tackle football and win the state championship like back in the glory days ;)
@@VertexEffectsInc Like I said, I’m not knocking you guys who build them professionally, but I have a hard time understanding it from the customers’ perspective. They have the brains and skills to do the research of what pedals they want and how they want it set up but don’t have the skills to actually set it up? I understand that a millionaire rock star who tours multiple times a week wouldn’t gain anything from doing it themselves, but the rest of us? I’ve been gigging with my custom pedalboard/case for 7 years in multiple states and it’s held up just dandy, so for an amateur I’d say it was executed professionally (enough).
@@GioGuitarDude "Professionally (enough)". That's the key phrase. I, too, can use double sided sticky-tape to weld my Donner and TC pedals to a cardboard surface. Tie the loose cable into a knot, and marvel at the Fuzz and Wah at the end of the chain (because the colors look good there). Do you employ a garden service to tend your lawn? Utter waste of money. It takes me 2 hours to cut my lawn, and I save $50. 2 hours of my pay is $70. Hmmm... let me get a calculator out...
@@GioGuitarDude And yeah, you are knocking the professionals. You are far from amateur. You can make a pedalboard because you researched pedalboard manufacture. I want to make music. I have little interest in impedance, Ohms, and buffer pedals. I want to sound good. I'm not at the stage of needing a pro to design my pedalboard, but I understand the professional mindset. 40+ years of biomedical science. You want me to look at your blood film, or you want to do it yourself with Google images to help?
@@mrrclewis I sense that someone is salty because they have considered spending $3000 having someone else build their pedal board… ouch. You’re seriously comparing sticking Velcro and connecting/soldering some wires to diagnosing illnesses with a blood film and a microscope after 6-8 years of mandatory education? Yes I guess in terms of price you’d be onto something (charging a patient thousands of dollars for a few hours of work [if that]), but soldering wires and the “crafty” aspects like sticking Velcro and determining layouts of pedals and wires is child's play that I was familiar with in elementary school. Definitely not a professional… but who cares? If I bought a microscope and glass slides and learned myself how to properly “read” a blood film through research and inquiry in my garage, what difference would it make? If it’s right, it’s right. In all seriousness though, these guys don’t have to get a PhD to slap a pedalboard together, so your background is absolutely irrelevant as is your argument… but alas, here we are.
I had mine built by XTS in Nashville. I'm a hack but the board build is top notch. I would consider them Master Builders and very reasonably priced. Dropped my pedals, power supply and board off in the morning and picked it up that afternoon. Highly recommend them
Wanted to add that they also modified a G7 EQ and built a buffer/interface box that has 2 additional jacks so I can just pop a pedal in and demo it without taking the board apart. 8 pedals, modded 1, build interface and route, mount and double check everything in 1 day for less than $600. Money well spent in my opinion. I also went back a few weeks later and bought one of their Winford Drive pedals and they installed it on the board for free while I waited. Again, I can't recommend them enough.
I don’t get the hate I’m seeing. He’s being transparent and has gone to great lengths to teach the steps for us to do everything on our own. He’s clearly a pro builder not for most of us…just showing what it takes for a pro build. Thanks for a look into this niche. I’d add that I’ve spent lots of hours building my boards and I don’t do cheap work in my real job or in my hobby. No judgment here.
I think that many of the viewers aren't regular viewers of the channel so they don't really know the typical videos that we do or have any idea of the body of DIY tutorials that we provide.
Hey Mason. I ordered everything I need to make my own cables. I went to school for electronics technician and graduated with a technical degree back in 1998. Truth be told I was a 3.68 GPA so theory was never a problem, but when it came to lab time I absolutely sucked a soldering. I bought all of your recommendations and watched all your patch cable videos today. I think it’ll be different this time.
I have built a few pedalboards over the years and am prepping & gathering to build a Mason Marangella inspired build using your 26" x 14" w/riser. Thanks for these invaluable lessons Mason!
I would love to have a professional built board one day. I more want to get the DIY aspect down to get that level of professionalism on my own build. Your channel has been very helpful, so thank u so much for everything u do. I still need to buy soldering equipment and learn to solder my own cables to get that clean look, and get a real board and ditch my board i made from wood, but im pretty happy with my pedal choice. I still want to get some more gain stages and a better wah pedal. Not sure if i want to look into a switcher in the future or not. Im using (in order) Mesa Highwire> (send) Ernie Ball VPJR> EHX Cockfight>Wampler Ego V2> Fender MTG Tube Distortion> EHX Nano Big Muff Pi> EQD Grand Orbiter V3> Boss EQ-200> Return to Mesa Highwire> Front end of a Roland JC40> JC40 Effects Loop Send> Boss MD-500 (Stereo Out)> Strymon Timeline> GFI Systems Specular Tempus> Stereo Return to the JC40, but spitting off from the second output on the Boss EQ-200 is going to an Egnater Tweaker 40 Combo to try to achieve a somewhat Wet/Dry/Wet rig between the 2 amps, and im using a Peterson Strobostomp HD in the tuner out of the Highwire. Im powering it all with a Truetone 1-Spot Pro CS12. I do want to get a Lehle P-Split III to properly send to my Egnater since i do experience some phase issues and ground noise from the way im currently splitting my signal, but im pretty happy with my board at the moment.
So TTL cost for a P&W pedalboard with the current used pedals: Timeline - $450 Blue Sky - $480 Blues Breaker type OD - $350 Compresor cali76 - $360 Mobius - $450 Volume - $100 Iridium (amp/cab box) - $400+ Another delay - $300 Tube screamer type OD - $250+ Switcher - $1,000 2 power supplies - $500 Labor $2,000 Materials like $1,500 *** $8,140 *** give or take I know this can sound great, but in comparison to a Kemper, is it $6,000+ better?
@@parkerkenney6113 I agree…you don’t have to buy one for $250, but looking at some P&W boards I’ve seen vemuran od and those go for 300+ Still you can save a hundred here and there but the point is that it will still cost you a pretty penny anyway.
@@netzarim1277 I don’t understand who would spend that much, but get whatever makes you happy and inspires you to play more because that’s all that matters
I have always built my own pedal boards, now they are usually split, drives etc in front and the mod/dly/rev in the amp loop (I no longer use loads of pedals). I have also built switcher boards and use strymon and gig rig power solutions, the gig rig has great isolation solution for both power and audio. They are not pretty but they stand up to heavy use, hundreds of shows. I also have built hybrid boards with AxeFx or Quad Cortex providing most of the sounds but adding some pedals I can't seem to do without.
I always encourage people to diy their own boards if possible, we have lots of resources on the channel to help facilitate this. For those that can afford or wish to hire someone I think this video spells out expectations on cost very well.
There are times I wonder about the reality of Synchronicity Mason…as I was spreadsheeting the to date expenditures for my board I was asking myself “ Why hasn’t anyone done a piece about the cost of a good board? (Hell a bad board for that matter!) I bet Mason would do one…Without shocking people I’ll simply say it’s likely I could easily buy a vintage amp for the cost of mine (so far) and we’re only talking parts and pedals much less time and materials. Doesn’t surprise me that some folks can make a living doing it…so lead on Captain let’s see where this ship sails today!
We generalize here, no specific prices assigned to any one builder but go off of what we know and give you a rough idea on material costs that are pretty universal and then get into the range of cost per hour labor ranging from less experienced to most experienced. It wont' be as accurate as a quote from the builder of choice, but at least give you a ballpark.
@@VertexEffectsInc As an example of published cost, Brian Omillion, a top board builder you certainly know Mason, is affiliated with Guitar Sanctuary in the Ft Worth area, has his rates and basic materials costs posted on their website as well as a basic estimate of time for boards.
@@geo5772 some do, however when you get into more custom options it's hard to estimate. Also when you get into more of the master-builders it's a bit more cryptic.
@@VertexEffectsInc Indeed, cryptic is a good word to apply here. I chose Brian because he does give you an "idea" of what one of his boards costs from simple labor ($75/hr) and basic materials (plugs/cable) standpoint. As far as material costs go I cant help but feel that a "joe" like myself who has just enough technical experience to be dangerous and a driving desire to build and learn from his favorite UA-cam board builder (Hahaha!) is faced with higher one time costs than a builder who can bulk order. I'm working up my second order with Brad at BTPA, (a super nice person, like yourself) who has been both patient and helpful as I wade through the multitude of materiel choices...I will say that without the guidance and tips I've been picking up here and through your links, I would be faced with even higher costs as I ordered material I wont or cant use. Once more thank you for all the virtual help! (and dammit get those new boards on the market!!)
I have a question Why do you need TC buffer in front of TC Polytune if that one has the same buffer that buffer pedal ? Confused. Thanks for the answer
Not positive but, the tuner buffer only brings the signal level back up from the loss that went thru the tuner. A separate buffer takes the original signal level that goes straight from the guitar and all of your pedals and raises it back to the starting point and then is sent into the front of the amp. That's my my understanding of it.
A Ferrari and a pedalboard are not remotely on the same level of sophistication.. Maybe building my own pedals that I am gonna use would approach that but not even then.@@jayandgem
If i've ever crossed paths with you before, I likely didn't know or appreciate the quality of your work. For that, I am sorry. Now seeing what talents you have, and your willingness to share, I say thank you! The transparency speaks to the integrity of your craft. Great Video.
One word!!! Boss GT-1 ($200). Once in a while I still think what it might sound like, going back and working on my pedalboard. But I know I’ll never get that thing quiet, and I’m using several tones on the GT now that I could never replicate on a pedalboard. So nice to finally streamline everything. My first multi-effects pedal. I’m not playing gigs like I used to, but this thing is gnarly. Just one stomp away, and I’m going from old Van Halen, to Kiss, to SRV, Ozzy, Pantera, Jimi, etc… So quiet too! 🤘🏻🇺🇸🎸😝 When I do want to play some Texas blues, I find myself using my combo preamp like I used to, and just maybe the tube screamer and Vox wah effects from the Boss multi-effects. Just love having one pedal to plug into! 😝
Oops, sorry. I guess this wasn’t a great place to discuss my multi-effects, ha ha. I was just trying to save people some money, if they don’t have more than $200 to spend. 👍🏻🎸🇺🇸 But great video. And I wish I had the time and money to put together a gnarly board. 🤘🏻
How do u get into the business of building rigs? Is it just finding a master builder to learn under and go from there? Learn from your own DIY experience and try to find clients and work up your experience from there, or is there schooling u can attend to learn this craft?
Some work for others, some start on their own, some have backgrounds as technicians or working on tours as roadies. It seems varied and diverse as to where people come from and then get into this as a career. If you want this specific type of training it seems like having a basic understanding of electronics from even a Community College would be a good start and then working under someone as an apprentice.
72 dollars for zipties and tiedowns, 70 dollars for velcro? I'm sorry but this is insane. For that money you can buy 1500 zipties, 480 tiedowns with 3M tape and 24 METERS of velcro tape (just checked on amazon U.S.). I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers.
$24 for zip ties and tie down mounts without a switcher, or $48 with a switcher. $70 for Velcro. This is presuming the “pretend” pedalboards we started with in the beginning getting high quality zip ties, tie mounts, and Velcro. Maybe you misquoted what was shown in the video for zip ties and tie mounts or combined them mistakenly? Each pedal takes about 1 ft of Velcro plus the power supply and buffers, you’re looking at 12-15 devices total x ~ $5 per foot for SJ3550 split with SJ3551 3M or Power Grip Pedalboard Adhesive once you factor in shipping, tax, etc. These products aren’t available as wholesale, in particular 3M. Rig builders don’t buy enough to even get close to qualifying for bulk pricing on that, so most are paying retail like any normal person. As the price relates to the zip ties in tie mounds, typically you have to buy them in quantities of 100 pieces, especially when it comes to high-quality ones that have good adhesives on the tie mounts. Quality marine-grade adhesives on tie mounts can often be upward of $1/per in some cases. It’s not like there’s just any old replacement you can buy on Amazon they said equal quality, that’s not going to lift off within a few months or when it experiences any humidity or moisture.
@@VertexEffectsInc also if you are charging for your services you gotta offer some kind of warranty, so you better use some quality parts and not something that will fall apart in a few months. That’s exactly why someone would search the services of a pro..
@@jambajoby32 1' of velcro = 2x 3" sections. 3" of hook, 3" of loop x2 sections per pedal. Sounds pretty close when you consider pedals aren't all in a 1590B size enclosure.
Once you take into account the cost of some decent quality tools and how much a total cock up can cost then the price for a professional isn’t too high, But it’s all part of the fun getting your hands dirty.
GREAT content! Is hard to find honest information on the net now days, but channels like yours contribute to maintain a healthy relationship between us the musicians, enthusiast, and consumers with all of you content creators, pedal companies, builders, other musicians and with the products we consume.thank you Mason! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
You can do it on your own and it's fairly simple, just takes some time. I seriously think it's a total waste of money to have someone else build it and paying them thousands of dollars for something anyone can easily capable of doing so. Just do it yourself, it's definitely not a rocket science. Bought PI-01 interface from L.A design sound, zip ties from amazon $7 (50ties) and everything looks and works like it should.
If you've watched this channel much you'll see that it's mostly dedicated to best practices for DIYers to do this very thing, build their own pedalboards using all the pro level standards. Nothing in this video negates the DIY route, just presents information for those that are less motivated or have the means to pay someone to build their rigs.
Everything factored in, 1 hour per pedal isn't even that bad. Sticking pedals on a pedaltrain and using of-the-shelf cables is obviously much faster. I can't really understand parts of your material cost tho. Here's what I paid for the material in Germany: - Rig surface: DIY (coated plywood, aluminium edging, rubber feet and handles) -> ~25€ - Case: (Don't have one, but you can order custom made ones from Thomann for around 200€, seems fair) - Zip ties: pack of 100 industrial grade -> 1,99€ - Tie downs: pack of 100 industrial grade -> 9,99€ - Velcro: Various kinds of 3M Duallock -> ~10€/meter (2€ per regular sized pedal) - Audio cables: Sommer Cable Tricone MKII (similar to Mogami which isn't available here) -> 0,77€/meter - Audio connectors: Square plugs are indeed pricey at ~4,50€ a piece, Hicon HI-J63MA05s are slightly bigger but only cost 1,99€ - Power cables: 5 meters of industrial bus cable (2x0,14mm²) -> 1,55€ - DC connectors: high quality ones (Lumberg LUM NES 21W) -> 0,89€ Seems like a) those materials are a lot more expensive in the US b) you are buying them from the wrong shops, which I doubt considering how long you have been doing this c) one can easily safe lots of money by making small compromises (Square plugs). Anyway, great video and a detailed explanation how many small costs can quickly add up.
A few things you're glossing over on materials. First, your alternative proposals are likely not equal in quality or the same product as what most of these pro builders would use. In other words, what's acceptable to you may not the same as what a vetted product is for a rig builder that's an industry standard. There are different grades of even the same model of materials. For example, Dual Lock, has about 20 different grades, each with a different price point. Some people are only buying 1/2" Dual Lock and comparing prices for full 1" Dual Lock. Some people are not getting SJ3350 and SJ3551 mixed with 150 loops/sq in densities mixed with 400 loops/sq in densities and are using a cheaper grade adhesives on the bottom of the loops. Also, the cost of shipping, and taxes aren't factored into your items. On small items often the shipping is as much as the item itself, in particular when it's all purchased separately a la carte. For example the Marine grade tie mounts we use are almost double any others I can find price wise, then I have to pay 10% taxes on it and $10 shipping and that's factored into the price. Again, this is meant to be a baseline, and from the feedback that I've gotten from rig builders, it seems to be pretty right on. Of course, if you want to go the DIY route, we have plenty of free resources here on the channel to do a quality professional pedalboard on your own. Thanks for watching!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc Well, I tried to find substitutes of equal quality. I only mentioned some cheaper and slightly lower quality alternatives as I do think that your standards are slightly overkill for the 99% of guitar players who don't tour the world with their pedalboard, e.g. mixing two kinds of dual lock. (I can pick up my entire heavy pedalboard by one pedal, so I don't really see a problem). The Hicon plugs for example take up more space than the SquarePlugs but cost less than half as much, so it's a personal choice whether you're willing to pay that much extra to save a little bit of space. Regarding your other concerns: - Dual Lock: The exact type of Dual Lock you mentioned (full 1 inch wide) is about 10-12€ per 1 meter. - Zip ties & tie downs: The ones I got are proper industrial grade, heavy-duty ones. Not the stuff you can buy at a regular hardware store. - Cables: Mogami is super uncommon here. Instead Cordial, Klotz and Sommer Cable can be regarded industry standard. The quality of the cable I chose should be absolutely comparable. - Taxes: German prices usually already include VAT. If you have to charge taxes on the parts as you're selling them to someone, you can get the VAT you initially paid back as a tax return. (At least that's how the German tax system works.) - Shipping: Dual Lock bought from eBay is shipped for free (as a large letter), zip ties and tie downs were bought at a local industrial supply store. From what I have seen during my research, some things just seem to be incredibly expensive in the US. You're videos are super helpful and are what got me started building pedalboards. Thank you for all the insights!
If there is already a built in buffer in the polytune mini, is there any particular reason you would need one another one before it? Or was that just for demonstration purposes. Thank you!
It’s was just to signify and represent the number of pedals on the board as part of the factious rig. We just tried to used common stuff people would recognize a tuner, od, delay, etc. If you had an input buffer you wouldn’t need a buffered tuner following it - we spell this out in our video on signal path.
@@VertexEffectsInc word, thanks for the reply that makes sense. Last quick question while I have you: I assume there is nothing wrong with the buffer on my polytune mini? or should I switch to my classic TU-3 boss tuner (there is anther JHS buffer on the way to amp)
Great video! Lot's of good information. I perform local and hate Velcro so I moved to the block system since I continue changing out pedals all the time, so a static build does make sense for my needs. Professional builds are tax write offs for business so that's a bonus.
Great video. Very informative. I have a simple rig with 7 pedals (LA Lady, PolyTune, Dunlop mine volume, HX Stomp, Nemesis, RV-500 and RC-5. Not much in the quantity of pedal but, it is all midi programmed. I spend so much time programming my MC6. But, once it’s done I’m very satisfied with the final results. The midi aspect could add even more time and work that people don’t consider. Like always a great job at breaking things down. Cya on the next one.
For sure…programming can be very time consuming - working with someone that knows their way around is invaluable if you don’t wanna spend time in the manual.
I love that you made this video. I’ve been wondering about whether I want to have a board made given the mix of pedals I’d be using and all of the things that need to be taken into consideration when building one. I think the cost is well worth it for a master builder if it’s going to eliminate any headaches and I can be sure that everything is going to work as best as it can.
I think the Master Builder is really only needed in complex rigs. The depth of their skills and toolbox will be mostly unused for a lot of simple boards and maybe be less necessary to hire them unless you're committed to just using them because of their name recognition or reputation. Many people could get away with a Journeyman level or Apprentice level with simpler rigs and save a bunch of money without much difference, especially if there are few to no customizations. Just depends on what you want and what you have.
@@VertexEffectsInc I agree. I was really talking about using a master builder if I was planning on putting a large, extensive board together. I can do the smaller ones myself or maybe use a little advice when expanding.
Hi Mason. Thanks for this video. It’s really very informative and straight to the point. After a year of research and watching all your videos on rig builds, I finally mustered up the courage and built my own rig few months ago and I must say that I’m very proud of myself. Its a learning journey that I embarked on and can’t seem to stop. Your podcast every week with chairman of the boards has helped me a lot to understand certain fundamentals on building rigs. So thank you for being such an amazing teacher and being transparent about the whole process. I have a question, what advice would you give to someone who is just starting in their rig building journey?
Thanks so much! My advise is to work for someone else that does it for a living that you want to emulate. This will help you better understand the best ways to do things and to have the resources to deal with problems as they come up as well as where to source materials and parts as you need them and how to organize a business in this fashion. That's not always possible of course, but it would have saved me some time and headaches had I done that.
Really enjoyed this video. This may have been addressed in the comments but you need to consider the cost of shipping and insurance. Shipping is not cheap. I live in Panama City, Florida so my equipment would have to travel a long way. Considering what it has cost me to ship guitars I have sold this could add $100 to $300 (that is traveling to and from your selected builder) to your cost. Again, thanks for making this and all the other videos!
I’m not in the game, but for those doing it full time, if you don’t have a reputation or a big social media following I’m sure it can be hard and hard to start from scratch.
These are just generalized Pedals, if you want to get a more concrete video on signal path, we have a separate video for that. This is to sort of give a generalized overview of how many pedals were talking about and what would ordinarily show up in a rig that size.
@@VertexEffectsInc oh ok right on, I just bought a poly tune 3 because it had a buffer. I’m a newb, so still trying to figure it all out. Thank you for the feedback! ✌️
Great video! Love the info provided here. I’m embarking on my DIY build and using a vertex board and other accessories from them. My question is would you put a buffer in front of PCB10 if there’s already buffers in the unit? I’m using that switcher in my build. I thought would use a passive patch bay so that I wouldn’t need to ‘re buffer’ the signals but perhaps I’m wrong in that? Thanks for any input
What's the true cost of having a board that fails in mid gig? Certainly embarrassment, possibly humiliation. A pro built rig is like insurance, might not be TSA proof, but certainly wouldn't want stuff sloshing around in a case and causing failures. There's a ton of pro builders out there. Mason is the only one I've seen who gives all the tips tricks and shares his know how to DIYers to get the pro results on their own. Respect.
Yeah, you could do that, but it’s not the same quality material is with a professional would use. Even when we do our video showing all the DIY tutorials I’m still recommending the proper materials, and I’m sure that there are a bunch of workarounds but they’re still going to be inferior to the tried-and-true standards.
You mean I can support the channel by buying a Vertex pedal? Like the SSS SRV? Like I just did? Cool! Lol, looking forward to incorporating that beauty on the board Mason. But you were so sneaky to slip that Cab IR box in there…now I have to go to check out Two Note…
Excellent breakdown and explanation Mason, this is going to save me a lot of time in the future ;). We also make complete board builds for EU customers...Martyn (Schmidt Array - Germany)
Martyn, I didn't make the connection between you and Schmidt Array. You've been added to the list of builders in the description :). Thanks for chiming in!
Hey Jason. So in this serial rig where would you put a quality fuzz? in my case a Twin Bender. Im being told it should go before everything including the buffer.
I wanted to show you my pedalboard cause you've inspired me 🙂 I've send it to you via messager. An issue with noise is already gone - just badly tweaked compressor. So. How about rack shelf DiY pedalboard? Legit or kinda nope ? 😉
ADAM, the best way to ensure that I get it it’s just to email us, sometimes when you post links here it will automatically remove them, I’m not sure how to reverse that or maybe it’s just a general UA-cam thing. I’d be happy to look at your work!
Thanks for making the video! My custom-built pedalboard has always been for free, because I don't use pedals xD Since day 1 of playing guitar, I have always tried to be as minimalistic as possible, because it makes me less "pedal-reliable", and that means less things to carry around. But don't get me wrong, I think pedals are cool, and I always add some emulated pedals in Logic when recording! Kind regards Garry
I never built a pedalboard before the one I have now, which has a switcher. I can say you should build your own at least once to increase your own understanding of how they work so you know what you want from a pro if you ever go that route. It's a lot to learn, but so worth it to understand your tone
@@VertexEffectsInc absolutely love your channel, I've learned so much from you and the boys at That Pedal Show. You also talked me into a hard case, can't believe I've gone this long without one. Thanks so much Mason! 🤘🏼
@CycleQ I hear ya, the TPS guys go on tangents a lot, but it's still pretty informative. These vids are better for step by step how-to's. I still have a lot to learn about power and need better cable organization lol lots to learn
@@jamesnichols5998 TPS is great for pedal demos and having someone synthesize the information about what they're hearing and how that translates to the everyday player. They've veered away from the DIY thing more in the last few years, and are more directed to a beginner DIYer: solderless cables, solderless power, etc. I think it's a bit more entry level, but still has its merits for beginners just getting into it. Ultimately, you have to solder and get in a little deeper to really have a pro level quality rig.
I would love to learn more about rig building, but it really does take away from the time you need to play and work on new songs so I’m having my rigs built. I built my temporary MC8 rig, but I’m going to use the Gizmo X with it so that looks way more complicated lol! I just want to get these done and have the fun of dialing it all in and be ready to do shows. I can definitely see why it’s so expensive because it’s so tedious and time consuming. My G3 rig is going to take a while to build, but I’m excited to have both done 😊
Another great video! Question: I was looking at the polytune 3 mini and the buffer specs are spot on what you recommend. In this context would you still put a dedicated buffer first as shown in your fictictious serial signal path or straight into the tuner is fine? And also, would you put a buffer before or after the delay pedal (considering the delay pedal is last in the chain)? If put right before the delay, would that enhance the repeated signals in this case? Thanks for your time!
What is shown here is just to set the number of pedals and using common pedals to represent each standard category. If you have a buffer on the input you don't need a tuner with a buffer, and if you did have the Polytune, you'd leave it in true bypass as you don't need to input buffers in a row.
I strongly believe that Sound of Silence (with master builder Göran Elmquist in the lead) in Sweden should be on that map of professional custom rig builders. Göran has been in the business for 35 years, his stuff gets used by touring musicians all the time, there's plenty of customization options and the quality is absolutely top-notch. Or maybe you've already investigated Sound of Silence and deemed them non-worthy for some reason? If so, please let us know why. Thanks!
@@VertexEffectsInc This is weird. I've written a reply three times but the comment disappears every time. Might be that YT isn't all that fond of links, even when they're not fully written out. Anyhow, search for "Sound of Silence" and "Göran Elmquist" and you'll find their site. They have an option for Swedish or English text (just click the British flag for English). They also have social media accounts under the same name. If you need more than that, let me know and I'll give you whatever I can!
Is it worth getting a switcher if I run my pedals into the front of my tube amp? My amp is a 30 watt 1x12 combo and has no effects loop. My pedalboard would consist of a wah pedal, fuzz, gain/od, clean boost, vibe, tremolo, and delay for the most part. Thanks for any help.
You need to have at least one buffer after the Fuzz in any case in order to keep your tone fresh and clear by compensating cables length. With regard to a switcher it depends on in what kind of context you intend to use the board. If you are playing at home you are not necessarily required to activate/deactivate a lot of pedals to change your entire sound by pressing just one button. If you are playing live then a (good) switcher allows you to do just that. You can define in advance per button which pedals should be active (and which ones not). This avoids tap dancing. Furthermore, if you have midi pedals you might switch the sounds of these pedals by tapping the same single button. So this,kind of switching allows you to concentrate more on playing instead of switching, which is very beneficial especially live. Hope this helps a bit. I recommend to check quite some other clips of the rig doctor, and clips by That Pedal Show as well, there is a lot to learn. Have fun!
@@gregorglasbruch6917 thanks for the reply. It looks as though I will need to do more research. I’m not sure that it makes a difference, but at this time I’m not using any midi capable pedals. My most elaborate pedals are my Earthquakes Devices Avalanche Run 2, Strymon Deco and Drybell Vibe Machine 2. I probably won’t be needing a midi capable switcher I’m guessing.
Any time I’ve put my boards together they usually take about 4 or 5 hours using sis cables (solder less) and gigrig power setup with a switcher and 8 to 10 pedals .....! May explain why they work but end up looking like a complete wiring mess as if I just piled all the cables/pedals on top of each other .......! Lesson here is just spend the time and actually do a tidy job and end up with a board that actually looks good tidy and solid and also isn’t likely to fall apart when moved ......! If I thought someone would pay me to build them a board I’d actually put the time in and do a good job like I do with my day job (repairing/servicing cars/suvs specialising mainly in Landrovers/rangerovers) ...!
In terms of neatness, sonically the difference would be negligible if the materials are quality, power supply is quality and the pedals themselves are reasonably well built. I’ve seen plenty of beautiful rigs that are problematic and plenty of messy boards that are silent and sound great. Looks aren’t always everything.
Vertex Effects True that! I can vouch for that too when it comes to automobiles .....! Usually the more prettier the more problematic.....! Well at least it keeps one busy ....! Unrelated topic ish! The nova drive landed in the post on Thursday , eventually got to literally throw it on the board on Friday evening just before heading for a wedding gig, seems to work pretty good but will need more tweaking to get it sounding better akin to how the Boss jb2 sounds with both sides of it stacked in series’s (angry > bd2) which makes a single coil Strat bridge into a vox ac15 sound like a les Paul into a cranked Marshall slp100 without the deafening volume!
How would you go about making your own trs to stereo cables? Nobody makes those with the trs at a 90degree angle. I’m trying to connect a zelzah, a deco, and a flint on a mini board in full stereo.
Question, what is the best vendor to order bulk cable and/or tips from? I believe one of My George L (solderless) shorted out for a second, luckily it was immediately prior having to play live!
eric Johnson just has a board on the floor, that's it! and a few pedals. that's it. I like his approach, just do it yourself you know what you like its not rocket science
It's at the discretion of the builder. Some might include some basic programming to ensure the implementation is right but wont' do specific programming as there is some presumption that the customer knows their own gear. I generally talk people out of using products they're not comfortable with as it can make it difficult for them to have competency with the rig once it leaves the rig builder's workshop.
Instead of using a switcher loop system, can you use an 8, 16 or 32 I/O input/output Interface with USB? The USB cable can be connected from your I/O Interface to your digital Floorboard process like a Line 6, Fractal FM9, etc. What I/O USB Interfaces do you recommend using?
@@VertexEffectsInc Can you make a video lesson about Troubleshooting pedalboards that a connected in serial that has 10 or 20 pedals and trying to find the intermittent audio patch cable. The hard part of troubleshooting is all the cables are between the guitar pedals side chassis from output to input so you can't use an Ohm meter to measure the center conductor and you can remove the input plug or output plug because most guitar pedals use side mounted jacks so it make it harder to troubleshoot when the center conductors are intermittent. So without removing the audio patch cable, how would you troubleshoot and find the bad audio cable that is in one of the serial patch cables on the pedal board?
@@waynegram8907 we did a similar video with Rhett Shull, the technique is mostly the same, start at the end and work backwards adding one pedal at at time :)
@@VertexEffectsInc Hi, I build Pedalboards in Cologne Germany where Tonehunter used to be situated. It would be much appreciated if i could be added to the list! I studied mechanical engineering worked as a mechanical designer for a long time and now I build rigs. Greetings from Germany and all the best.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thansk a lot !, Name: INGENOUT Web Page: ingenout.com/ Country: Germany. if you need anything else let me know and I'll have it sent to you.
I'm having a difficult time finding a power supply that meets my needs. TcHelicon acoustic at 12v 400ma. Digitech trio+ with 9V 800 ma. Beat buddy 9v 500 ma. And the Dittox4 with 9v 300 ma . Please help ? Thansk
You'll need a current doubler for the Trio. Many power supplies can do it, Truetone, Strymon, Cioks. We show so diagrams on how to make these current doubler cables on our website and on our channel as well, you can also buy them pre-made.
I am also in the process of building apedal board and I also have a Trio +. I have just resigned to not hooking it up to the pedal board power supply and using a separate outlet. However, I'm not a gigging musician so this option would work for me.
I had a pedalboard done and everything including pedals ...board..wires..velcro .power supply with about 7 custom pedals..costs me $1800..I guess that was reasonable?
I guess it depends on the number of functions and the builders level but not out of the realm of possibility, your builder probably only make $8-900 total on the rig after recouping parts cost.
You know, that's for you to decide. You got a product you wanted at a price you could afford. The vendor got paid a price he could accept. What do youean, reasonable? Taking into account the vendors debt to college purchases on behalf of the customer, his overheads, tax liabilities, insurance, blah, blah.... Maybe you found it reasonable? Possibly, the supplier took a loss, because any work is better than none? Who knows.
@@VertexEffectsInc well I'm happy with the setup and I've got custom pedals so I believe its worth it..he didn't take very long to do everything like an hour..so I guess it is what it is..and I'm satisfied with the setup..
Outstanding video.. I know I have asked you if you would build a rig for anyone. This is a needed resource, thanks. PS. Nobody makes a better rig than you do. You have the gift. lol
Anyone have output buffer recommendations? I have the polytune at the start of my rig, and I saw the empress buffer but that has a built in boost and I wouldn't run that at the end of a chain, so I am just looking for recommendations on solid output buffers. My chain goes Fuzz - wah - Tuner - Compressor - Bonsai - Sugar Drive - Keeley BD2 - SSS - Deco- Carbon Copy Deluxe - Golden reverberator. Need a buffer at the end.
Yeah, I had omilion do my first pedalboard several years ago. I was somewhat shell shocked at the cost tbh. But it is what it is. And the fact it came back with dog or cat hair all over it (I’m allergic btw) sucked. So every pedalboard since then Ive done myself and a few for friends and I actually like doing it. & it Helps I’m somewhat ocd and an electrical engineer Where do you buy you power plugs and wire? I just bought a cioks
Cool! Power plugs for Cioks, just get mini Switchcraft RCA's - Markertek, Full Compass, all those places have them. And for the cables I just re-use what they come with and cut them down to size. You can also buy Strymon DC cables in bulk from them in 36" lengths same with Voodoo Lab if you want a shielded DC cable.
So sorry the rig arrived with cat hair on it, that was likely from the beginning days of rig building out of a small apartment. Likely now I have the tools and shop space separate from home to keep things clean and professional.
When comparing the price of a board with and without a switcher, how do you ignore the price of the switcher? Most good switchers cost around $1000 +/- $200. That’s equal to the combined cost of both the TimeLine and Big Sky pedals in this example.
We state in the Intro of the video that we’re presuming through pedals and hardware products are provided, this only looks at the materials and labor necessary to build the pedalboard.
It’s frightening how much a decent sized board actually costs, but I’d guess for most people you don’t go out and spend hundreds or thousands all in one go. For me, I’ve got ten pedals on my board, but it’s taken literally years to buy that collection, one pedal every few months as I wanted them and could afford them. I still need to upgrade my power supply, and then it’ll finally be done, for now anyway…
Typically about half the cost is in materials if you're using good quality stuff. After that the labor is extensive...an hour per pedal at least, more if it's a switcher. Most guys don't give any thought to spending $400 on a pedal, but a hesitate to spend $1000 on assembling a pedalboard packed with $10K in effects. This is why we offer free DIY tutorials here, so you have all the resources to do it yourself and save the labor costs.
Totally get the prices for all of this, but now i can understand better why all the new kids are going for Fractal or Kemper and such, i don’t blame them.
I wouldn't pay master-builder rates for anything that wasn't a remote rack-based unit with wireless MIDI foot-switching. That should be the standard at this point in time. All the performer should have in front of them is a wireless MIDI foot switch panel with a couple of wireless EXP pedals. Everything else should be professionally wired up in an outboard rack unit with remote MIDI switching. If anything less, it should be done by the user themselves as it requires little expertise which is easily obtained via UA-cam instructional videos.
I'm sorry, 150 dollars an hour? and it takes them an hour to do one pedal????? I'm probably ignorant to what building a pedal involves but that is fucking ridiculous. How much engineering knowledge do you really need to know to plug a few pedals into each other? Is it any harder than building a guitar? If it isn't I'll do it myself
Build them yourself - trust me, it's easy. I've been building and wiring my own pedalboards for over 10 years now - all it took was a few youtube videos, some basic soldering practice (about 2-3 hours to get the hang of it) and parts orders from somewhere like Redco audio. I've built boards with custom wired pedal loop switch boxes (up to 20 loops) with about $100 worth of parts which would retail for over $1500 plus with very limited experience. I highly recommend giving it a go - it is absolutely not a black art as some might suggest.
@@sethtincopa1912 You're literally just plugging a cable into a pedal. It's not rocket science. Its not like you're building a PC. This is about as easy to do as plugging in your iphone or android to charge. I also don't know what people do with these "professionally" build boards if they constantly change pedals. I know when I change pedals, I usually have to tweak my board's layout a bit and change the wiring.
@@ArrakisOCE this...i solder my own cables and have built the actual board...if i was an A list pro who had a tech, yeah I might pay someone to keep my board in top condition...but to pay these rates for small venues or my basement LOL...come ONNNN
@@scottraycraft5151 It all depends on time and requirement. If you have the time to learn and it's a simple application - sure, go for it. If it's a professional application and there a complexities (gain staging, impedance matching, signal summing/merging, AD/DA or line/balanced conversions, MIDI, etc) then it would be absolutely worthwhile getting a professional in. I've learned the hard way over a decade and probably still don't get it right. If I were still in the industry I would just pay someone like this and have the peace of mind that it's a good setup.
Do you know of any rig builders that we didn't include on this list? Tell us in the comments below!
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00:00 Introduction
00:52 Fictitious Pedalboard Example
02:52 Material Costs
03:27 Pedalboard Surface Cost
04:50 Ziptie & Mount Cost
05:33 Velcro Cost
06:05 Audio Cable Cost
07:06 Power Cable Cost
08:21 Labor Costs
09:21 Rig Builder Categorization
09:47 Master Builders
10:47 Journeyman Builders
12:37 Apprentice Builders
14:41 Rig Builders Near YOU!
16:48 Conclusion
Best Tronics in Chicago
Mystic Pedalboards canada quebev
Sound of Silence in Stockholm, Sweden
Custom Pedal Chain System in France ! They’re awesome.
Don't forget Spencer at West Coast Pedal Boards. Top-notch work!
Knowing that pros factor in an hour per pedal makes me feel a lot better about how long it takes me to build my rigs. 😰
It may not be indicative of all rebuilders, but the typical generalization
Aaaaaaand that's why I ended up doing the labor myself.
Once I got the materials/pedals together, it actually wasn't difficult at all to get a rock solid rig done. I didn't end up using custom power or audio cables (used True Tone's supplied power leads and a mix of EBS Flat and Tour Gear Designs), but now I have a true stereo ampless midi controlled rig in 7 Cable Method.
Huge thanks to all the great resources on this channel for helping me along the way!
Totally viable to DIY this, in fact, this is what this channel is really all about. However, some want to hire other people to do it and this video is showing them some of the basic info they'll need.
Have always built my own just because of cost. Buy the wood, cut to size, build platforms and screw together if needed. Usually trim the outside with aluminum. I don't paint mine. I like the oak wood color so I finish with Minwax Polycrylic clear satin finish and just put on strips of velcro or dual lock across so I can swap pedals as I inevitably will do. Buy a good quality power supply, used Strymon on the last couple I've built. Ordered all my jacks, wire from Bestronics last time but have use other brands in the past. I like being able to order everything I need from them and they have good pricing. Been soldering since I was a kid (still feel every guitarist should learn to solder) so do all of that myself. My cable runs aren't the cleanest because I swap stuff around a lot but all the materials usually cost me $100-300 depending on size of board. I also mount jacks into the side of my pedal risers for running cables back to my amps. I get a lot of compliments on my boards. I've made about 6 now, all different sizes. I often think it would be cool to have a "pro built one", but in the end the money savings alone would keep me from ever doing it. Add in knowing that it's my design makes it feel a bit more special as well.
Totally legit reasons, and this video isn’t attempting to talk you out of the diy route. Simply shining light on the reality of material costs and the range of labor costs as it can be difficult to understand where the money goes if you’ve not done this before. Of course we always emphasize the DIY route as that’s what this channel is all about and democratizing the pro rig builder tricks as much as possible.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah, I totally get the point of the video and showing the cost breakdown. I was just saying I could personally never get past the labor pricing and occasional material mark up I have seen for a "pro rig". I understand someone not trying to re-roof their house alone by themselves, but learning to solder and make your own cables (which with all the online instruction out there today is very easy to do) vs. paying someone $1,000 or more to do it is just one of those things I can't grasp and I'm glad your videos focus on the DIY approach as there isn't any reason someone who can spend years learning to play an instrument can't spend an hour learning to use a soldering iron.
@@therealdealblues the choice is there for those that want it. Again that why we provide resources on this channel so there is a free option that won't sacrifice on quality and still have all the same options available to you.
For simple-ish to moderately complicated pedalboards, if you can’t rout some custom cables and stick some Velcro on objects then I have a hard time believing that you even have enough brains to play the guitar. $2800 just for labor, cables, Velcro and zip ties??? I’m not intentionally trying to be negative, but sheesh you’ve got to be kidding me. I have $1500 worth of pedals (12 pedals total) in a custom hard case that I spent less than $300 and 4 hours building, and it works absolutely perfectly and looks good too. It’s just a 5 cable setup (some pedals through FX loop and some between the guitar and the amp input + Marshall 6 way channel selector), but it’s absolutely perfect. I’m thrilled that I could potentially make $2000+ building pedalboards and am not knocking the guys who build them professionally, but for the customers out there… come on dudes… it’s not that hard to do it yourselves.
If you think you can do it as well as professional we have all the resources here so you can learn to solder and route cables properly like a professional. A lot of people think it's easy until they try to do it on a professional level and have it work and function on the level of a pro rig. It's a lot like 50 year old men that still think they can play tackle football and win the state championship like back in the glory days ;)
@@VertexEffectsInc Like I said, I’m not knocking you guys who build them professionally, but I have a hard time understanding it from the customers’ perspective. They have the brains and skills to do the research of what pedals they want and how they want it set up but don’t have the skills to actually set it up? I understand that a millionaire rock star who tours multiple times a week wouldn’t gain anything from doing it themselves, but the rest of us? I’ve been gigging with my custom pedalboard/case for 7 years in multiple states and it’s held up just dandy, so for an amateur I’d say it was executed professionally (enough).
@@GioGuitarDude "Professionally (enough)". That's the key phrase. I, too, can use double sided sticky-tape to weld my Donner and TC pedals to a cardboard surface. Tie the loose cable into a knot, and marvel at the Fuzz and Wah at the end of the chain (because the colors look good there). Do you employ a garden service to tend your lawn? Utter waste of money. It takes me 2 hours to cut my lawn, and I save $50. 2 hours of my pay is $70. Hmmm... let me get a calculator out...
@@GioGuitarDude And yeah, you are knocking the professionals. You are far from amateur. You can make a pedalboard because you researched pedalboard manufacture. I want to make music. I have little interest in impedance, Ohms, and buffer pedals. I want to sound good. I'm not at the stage of needing a pro to design my pedalboard, but I understand the professional mindset. 40+ years of biomedical science. You want me to look at your blood film, or you want to do it yourself with Google images to help?
@@mrrclewis I sense that someone is salty because they have considered spending $3000 having someone else build their pedal board… ouch. You’re seriously comparing sticking Velcro and connecting/soldering some wires to diagnosing illnesses with a blood film and a microscope after 6-8 years of mandatory education? Yes I guess in terms of price you’d be onto something (charging a patient thousands of dollars for a few hours of work [if that]), but soldering wires and the “crafty” aspects like sticking Velcro and determining layouts of pedals and wires is child's play that I was familiar with in elementary school. Definitely not a professional… but who cares? If I bought a microscope and glass slides and learned myself how to properly “read” a blood film through research and inquiry in my garage, what difference would it make? If it’s right, it’s right. In all seriousness though, these guys don’t have to get a PhD to slap a pedalboard together, so your background is absolutely irrelevant as is your argument… but alas, here we are.
I had mine built by XTS in Nashville. I'm a hack but the board build is top notch. I would consider them Master Builders and very reasonably priced. Dropped my pedals, power supply and board off in the morning and picked it up that afternoon. Highly recommend them
Wanted to add that they also modified a G7 EQ and built a buffer/interface box that has 2 additional jacks so I can just pop a pedal in and demo it without taking the board apart. 8 pedals, modded 1, build interface and route, mount and double check everything in 1 day for less than $600. Money well spent in my opinion. I also went back a few weeks later and bought one of their Winford Drive pedals and they installed it on the board for free while I waited. Again, I can't recommend them enough.
XTS is great! Thanks for watching!
I don’t get the hate I’m seeing. He’s being transparent and has gone to great lengths to teach the steps for us to do everything on our own. He’s clearly a pro builder not for most of us…just showing what it takes for a pro build. Thanks for a look into this niche. I’d add that I’ve spent lots of hours building my boards and I don’t do cheap work in my real job or in my hobby. No judgment here.
I think that many of the viewers aren't regular viewers of the channel so they don't really know the typical videos that we do or have any idea of the body of DIY tutorials that we provide.
Hey Mason. I ordered everything I need to make my own cables. I went to school for electronics technician and graduated with a technical degree back in 1998. Truth be told I was a 3.68 GPA so theory was never a problem, but when it came to lab time I absolutely sucked a soldering. I bought all of your recommendations and watched all your patch cable videos today. I think it’ll be different this time.
Good luck! This is a great skill to learn, you'll never pay for a pre-made cable again!
I have built a few pedalboards over the years and am prepping & gathering to build a Mason Marangella inspired build using your 26" x 14" w/riser. Thanks for these invaluable lessons Mason!
🙏🙏🙏
I would love to have a professional built board one day. I more want to get the DIY aspect down to get that level of professionalism on my own build. Your channel has been very helpful, so thank u so much for everything u do. I still need to buy soldering equipment and learn to solder my own cables to get that clean look, and get a real board and ditch my board i made from wood, but im pretty happy with my pedal choice. I still want to get some more gain stages and a better wah pedal. Not sure if i want to look into a switcher in the future or not. Im using (in order) Mesa Highwire> (send) Ernie Ball VPJR> EHX Cockfight>Wampler Ego V2> Fender MTG Tube Distortion> EHX Nano Big Muff Pi> EQD Grand Orbiter V3> Boss EQ-200> Return to Mesa Highwire> Front end of a Roland JC40> JC40 Effects Loop Send> Boss MD-500 (Stereo Out)> Strymon Timeline> GFI Systems Specular Tempus> Stereo Return to the JC40, but spitting off from the second output on the Boss EQ-200 is going to an Egnater Tweaker 40 Combo to try to achieve a somewhat Wet/Dry/Wet rig between the 2 amps, and im using a Peterson Strobostomp HD in the tuner out of the Highwire. Im powering it all with a Truetone 1-Spot Pro CS12. I do want to get a Lehle P-Split III to properly send to my Egnater since i do experience some phase issues and ground noise from the way im currently splitting my signal, but im pretty happy with my board at the moment.
Sounds like a cool rig!
So TTL cost for a P&W pedalboard with the current used pedals:
Timeline - $450
Blue Sky - $480
Blues Breaker type OD - $350
Compresor cali76 - $360
Mobius - $450
Volume - $100
Iridium (amp/cab box) - $400+
Another delay - $300
Tube screamer type OD - $250+
Switcher - $1,000
2 power supplies - $500
Labor $2,000
Materials like $1,500
*** $8,140 *** give or take
I know this can sound great, but in comparison to a Kemper, is it $6,000+ better?
Thanks for watching man, its honestly all subjective! Whatever floats your boat!
Bruh what kind of tube screamer are you playing that is $250+? You can get a ts9 for 99 or the mini for 79
@@parkerkenney6113 I agree…you don’t have to buy one for $250, but looking at some P&W boards I’ve seen vemuran od and those go for 300+
Still you can save a hundred here and there but the point is that it will still cost you a pretty penny anyway.
@@netzarim1277 I don’t understand who would spend that much, but get whatever makes you happy and inspires you to play more because that’s all that matters
Cheaping out on the voume pedal there...
Based on these numbers I can’t thank you enough for sharing your master knowledge
🙏🙏🙏
I have always built my own pedal boards, now they are usually split, drives etc in front and the mod/dly/rev in the amp loop (I no longer use loads of pedals). I have also built switcher boards and use strymon and gig rig power solutions, the gig rig has great isolation solution for both power and audio. They are not pretty but they stand up to heavy use, hundreds of shows. I also have built hybrid boards with AxeFx or Quad Cortex providing most of the sounds but adding some pedals I can't seem to do without.
I always encourage people to diy their own boards if possible, we have lots of resources on the channel to help facilitate this. For those that can afford or wish to hire someone I think this video spells out expectations on cost very well.
There are times I wonder about the reality of Synchronicity Mason…as I was spreadsheeting the to date expenditures for my board I was asking myself “ Why hasn’t anyone done a piece about the cost of a good board? (Hell a bad board for that matter!) I bet Mason would do one…Without shocking people I’ll simply say it’s likely I could easily buy a vintage amp for the cost of mine (so far) and we’re only talking parts and pedals much less time and materials. Doesn’t surprise me that some folks can make a living doing it…so lead on Captain let’s see where this ship sails today!
We generalize here, no specific prices assigned to any one builder but go off of what we know and give you a rough idea on material costs that are pretty universal and then get into the range of cost per hour labor ranging from less experienced to most experienced. It wont' be as accurate as a quote from the builder of choice, but at least give you a ballpark.
@@VertexEffectsInc As an example of published cost, Brian Omillion, a top board builder you certainly know Mason, is affiliated with Guitar Sanctuary in the Ft Worth area, has his rates and basic materials costs posted on their website as well as a basic estimate of time for boards.
@@geo5772 some do, however when you get into more custom options it's hard to estimate. Also when you get into more of the master-builders it's a bit more cryptic.
@@VertexEffectsInc Indeed, cryptic is a good word to apply here. I chose Brian because he does give you an "idea" of what one of his boards costs from simple labor ($75/hr) and basic materials (plugs/cable) standpoint. As far as material costs go I cant help but feel that a "joe" like myself who has just enough technical experience to be dangerous and a driving desire to build and learn from his favorite UA-cam board builder (Hahaha!) is faced with higher one time costs than a builder who can bulk order. I'm working up my second order with Brad at BTPA, (a super nice person, like yourself) who has been both patient and helpful as I wade through the multitude of materiel choices...I will say that without the guidance and tips I've been picking up here and through your links, I would be faced with even higher costs as I ordered material I wont or cant use. Once more thank you for all the virtual help! (and dammit get those new boards on the market!!)
Great video. This channel is consistently putting out the best quality content.
Ahhh shucks :)
I have a question
Why do you need TC buffer in front of TC Polytune if that one has the same buffer that buffer pedal ?
Confused.
Thanks for the answer
I was wondering the same.
Not positive but, the tuner buffer only brings the signal level back up from the loss that went thru the tuner. A separate buffer takes the original signal level that goes straight from the guitar and all of your pedals and raises it back to the starting point and then is sent into the front of the amp. That's my my understanding of it.
You've got to be well off to have someone build a rig for you. I'll build it myself thank you very much.
A Ferrari and a pedalboard are not remotely on the same level of sophistication.. Maybe building my own pedals that I am gonna use would approach that but not even then.@@jayandgem
If i've ever crossed paths with you before, I likely didn't know or appreciate the quality of your work. For that, I am sorry. Now seeing what talents you have, and your willingness to share, I say thank you! The transparency speaks to the integrity of your craft. Great Video.
🙏🙏🙏 thank you so much
Hey there, it’s Dustin from Bright Side Sound Machine in Kentucky just a little ways north of Nashville Tn, and I build rigs. Great content Mason!
Added
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you!!!
One word!!! Boss GT-1 ($200).
Once in a while I still think what it might sound like, going back and working on my pedalboard. But I know I’ll never get that thing quiet, and I’m using several tones on the GT now that I could never replicate on a pedalboard. So nice to finally streamline everything. My first multi-effects pedal. I’m not playing gigs like I used to, but this thing is gnarly. Just one stomp away, and I’m going from old Van Halen, to Kiss, to SRV, Ozzy, Pantera, Jimi, etc… So quiet too! 🤘🏻🇺🇸🎸😝
When I do want to play some Texas blues, I find myself using my combo preamp like I used to, and just maybe the tube screamer and Vox wah effects from the Boss multi-effects. Just love having one pedal to plug into! 😝
Totally...deleting this video now!
Oops, sorry. I guess this wasn’t a great place to discuss my multi-effects, ha ha. I was just trying to save people some money, if they don’t have more than $200 to spend. 👍🏻🎸🇺🇸
But great video. And I wish I had the time and money to put together a gnarly board. 🤘🏻
How do u get into the business of building rigs? Is it just finding a master builder to learn under and go from there? Learn from your own DIY experience and try to find clients and work up your experience from there, or is there schooling u can attend to learn this craft?
Some work for others, some start on their own, some have backgrounds as technicians or working on tours as roadies. It seems varied and diverse as to where people come from and then get into this as a career. If you want this specific type of training it seems like having a basic understanding of electronics from even a Community College would be a good start and then working under someone as an apprentice.
72 dollars for zipties and tiedowns, 70 dollars for velcro? I'm sorry but this is insane. For that money you can buy 1500 zipties, 480 tiedowns with 3M tape and 24 METERS of velcro tape (just checked on amazon U.S.). I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers.
$24 for zip ties and tie down mounts without a switcher, or $48 with a switcher. $70 for Velcro. This is presuming the “pretend” pedalboards we started with in the beginning getting high quality zip ties, tie mounts, and Velcro. Maybe you misquoted what was shown in the video for zip ties and tie mounts or combined them mistakenly? Each pedal takes about 1 ft of Velcro plus the power supply and buffers, you’re looking at 12-15 devices total x ~ $5 per foot for SJ3550 split with SJ3551
3M or Power Grip Pedalboard Adhesive once you factor in shipping, tax, etc. These products aren’t available as wholesale, in particular 3M. Rig builders don’t buy enough to even get close to qualifying for bulk pricing on that, so most are paying retail like any normal person. As the price relates to the zip ties in tie mounds, typically you have to buy them in quantities of 100 pieces, especially when it comes to high-quality ones that have good adhesives on the tie mounts. Quality marine-grade adhesives on tie mounts can often be upward of $1/per in some cases. It’s not like there’s just any old replacement you can buy on Amazon they said equal quality, that’s not going to lift off within a few months or when it experiences any humidity or moisture.
@@VertexEffectsInc also if you are charging for your services you gotta offer some kind of warranty, so you better use some quality parts and not something that will fall apart in a few months. That’s exactly why someone would search the services of a pro..
@@x3a3x3 very true.
@@VertexEffectsInc pedals don’t take 1 foot of Velcro lol
@@jambajoby32 1' of velcro = 2x 3" sections. 3" of hook, 3" of loop x2 sections per pedal. Sounds pretty close when you consider pedals aren't all in a 1590B size enclosure.
Once you take into account the cost of some decent quality tools and how much a total cock up can cost then the price for a professional isn’t too high, But it’s all part of the fun getting your hands dirty.
Once you get all the tools however, you'll always be able to make all your own rigs for just the cost of materials from that point forward :)
@@VertexEffectsInc completely agree
GREAT content! Is hard to find honest information on the net now days, but channels like yours contribute to maintain a healthy relationship between us the musicians, enthusiast, and consumers with all of you content creators, pedal companies, builders, other musicians and with the products we consume.thank you Mason!
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
My pleasure, glad you’re finding it helpful!
I’ll be in Nashville in March. Dropping my board at XTS! Thanks Mason!
Amazing! Those guys do great work!
This is good to know, coz ya never know when your going on a world tour.
Could be for that or just having something super rock solid. Certainly it's not for everyone.
You can do it on your own and it's fairly simple, just takes some time. I seriously think it's a total waste of money to have someone else build it and paying them thousands of dollars for something anyone can easily capable of doing so. Just do it yourself, it's definitely not a rocket science. Bought PI-01 interface from L.A design sound, zip ties from amazon $7 (50ties) and everything looks and works like it should.
If you've watched this channel much you'll see that it's mostly dedicated to best practices for DIYers to do this very thing, build their own pedalboards using all the pro level standards. Nothing in this video negates the DIY route, just presents information for those that are less motivated or have the means to pay someone to build their rigs.
Gotta say, love the plants in the background! Looks great and really professional!
Oh thanks go to my wife, our in-house botanist
Everything factored in, 1 hour per pedal isn't even that bad. Sticking pedals on a pedaltrain and using of-the-shelf cables is obviously much faster.
I can't really understand parts of your material cost tho. Here's what I paid for the material in Germany:
- Rig surface: DIY (coated plywood, aluminium edging, rubber feet and handles) -> ~25€
- Case: (Don't have one, but you can order custom made ones from Thomann for around 200€, seems fair)
- Zip ties: pack of 100 industrial grade -> 1,99€
- Tie downs: pack of 100 industrial grade -> 9,99€
- Velcro: Various kinds of 3M Duallock -> ~10€/meter (2€ per regular sized pedal)
- Audio cables: Sommer Cable Tricone MKII (similar to Mogami which isn't available here) -> 0,77€/meter
- Audio connectors: Square plugs are indeed pricey at ~4,50€ a piece, Hicon HI-J63MA05s are slightly bigger but only cost 1,99€
- Power cables: 5 meters of industrial bus cable (2x0,14mm²) -> 1,55€
- DC connectors: high quality ones (Lumberg LUM NES 21W) -> 0,89€
Seems like
a) those materials are a lot more expensive in the US
b) you are buying them from the wrong shops, which I doubt considering how long you have been doing this
c) one can easily safe lots of money by making small compromises (Square plugs).
Anyway, great video and a detailed explanation how many small costs can quickly add up.
A few things you're glossing over on materials. First, your alternative proposals are likely not equal in quality or the same product as what most of these pro builders would use. In other words, what's acceptable to you may not the same as what a vetted product is for a rig builder that's an industry standard. There are different grades of even the same model of materials. For example, Dual Lock, has about 20 different grades, each with a different price point. Some people are only buying 1/2" Dual Lock and comparing prices for full 1" Dual Lock. Some people are not getting SJ3350 and SJ3551 mixed with 150 loops/sq in densities mixed with 400 loops/sq in densities and are using a cheaper grade adhesives on the bottom of the loops. Also, the cost of shipping, and taxes aren't factored into your items. On small items often the shipping is as much as the item itself, in particular when it's all purchased separately a la carte. For example the Marine grade tie mounts we use are almost double any others I can find price wise, then I have to pay 10% taxes on it and $10 shipping and that's factored into the price. Again, this is meant to be a baseline, and from the feedback that I've gotten from rig builders, it seems to be pretty right on. Of course, if you want to go the DIY route, we have plenty of free resources here on the channel to do a quality professional pedalboard on your own. Thanks for watching!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc Well, I tried to find substitutes of equal quality. I only mentioned some cheaper and slightly lower quality alternatives as I do think that your standards are slightly overkill for the 99% of guitar players who don't tour the world with their pedalboard, e.g. mixing two kinds of dual lock. (I can pick up my entire heavy pedalboard by one pedal, so I don't really see a problem). The Hicon plugs for example take up more space than the SquarePlugs but cost less than half as much, so it's a personal choice whether you're willing to pay that much extra to save a little bit of space.
Regarding your other concerns:
- Dual Lock: The exact type of Dual Lock you mentioned (full 1 inch wide) is about 10-12€ per 1 meter.
- Zip ties & tie downs: The ones I got are proper industrial grade, heavy-duty ones. Not the stuff you can buy at a regular hardware store.
- Cables: Mogami is super uncommon here. Instead Cordial, Klotz and Sommer Cable can be regarded industry standard. The quality of the cable I chose should be absolutely comparable.
- Taxes: German prices usually already include VAT. If you have to charge taxes on the parts as you're selling them to someone, you can get the VAT you initially paid back as a tax return. (At least that's how the German tax system works.)
- Shipping: Dual Lock bought from eBay is shipped for free (as a large letter), zip ties and tie downs were bought at a local industrial supply store.
From what I have seen during my research, some things just seem to be incredibly expensive in the US.
You're videos are super helpful and are what got me started building pedalboards. Thank you for all the insights!
If there is already a built in buffer in the polytune mini, is there any particular reason you would need one another one before it? Or was that just for demonstration purposes. Thank you!
It’s was just to signify and represent the number of pedals on the board as part of the factious rig. We just tried to used common stuff people would recognize a tuner, od, delay, etc. If you had an input buffer you wouldn’t need a buffered tuner following it - we spell this out in our video on signal path.
@@VertexEffectsInc word, thanks for the reply that makes sense. Last quick question while I have you: I assume there is nothing wrong with the buffer on my polytune mini? or should I switch to my classic TU-3 boss tuner (there is anther JHS buffer on the way to amp)
Great video! Lot's of good information. I perform local and hate Velcro so I moved to the block system since I continue changing out pedals all the time, so a static build does make sense for my needs. Professional builds are tax write offs for business so that's a bonus.
Awesome dude!!
A friend and I run a small build shop in Upstate SC called BB Custom Pedals! Awesome video Mason.
Thanks for watching!
Great video. Very informative. I have a simple rig with 7 pedals (LA Lady, PolyTune, Dunlop mine volume, HX Stomp, Nemesis, RV-500 and RC-5. Not much in the quantity of pedal but, it is all midi programmed. I spend so much time programming my MC6. But, once it’s done I’m very satisfied with the final results. The midi aspect could add even more time and work that people don’t consider. Like always a great job at breaking things down. Cya on the next one.
For sure…programming can be very time consuming - working with someone that knows their way around is invaluable if you don’t wanna spend time in the manual.
I’m having GoodWoodAudio do my board and a custom buffer interface box.
Sounds like it’s going to be a cool rig
I love that you made this video. I’ve been wondering about whether I want to have a board made given the mix of pedals I’d be using and all of the things that need to be taken into consideration when building one. I think the cost is well worth it for a master builder if it’s going to eliminate any headaches and I can be sure that everything is going to work as best as it can.
I have no idea how you came to this conclusion.
@@cutseencinematics It’s my opinion. You don’t need to understand it. I can’t understand why you felt the need to make a comment on it.
I think the Master Builder is really only needed in complex rigs. The depth of their skills and toolbox will be mostly unused for a lot of simple boards and maybe be less necessary to hire them unless you're committed to just using them because of their name recognition or reputation. Many people could get away with a Journeyman level or Apprentice level with simpler rigs and save a bunch of money without much difference, especially if there are few to no customizations. Just depends on what you want and what you have.
@@VertexEffectsInc I agree. I was really talking about using a master builder if I was planning on putting a large, extensive board together. I can do the smaller ones myself or maybe use a little advice when expanding.
Thanks for the video, learning so much from this channel 👍
🙏🙏🙏
This was well worth watching. Quality costs and rightly so. Great to hear some figures as to what a truly professional rig would cost.
Just started this vid, this is going to be good!
👍👍👍
Hi Mason. Thanks for this video. It’s really very informative and straight to the point. After a year of research and watching all your videos on rig builds, I finally mustered up the courage and built my own rig few months ago and I must say that I’m very proud of myself. Its a learning journey that I embarked on and can’t seem to stop. Your podcast every week with chairman of the boards has helped me a lot to understand certain fundamentals on building rigs. So thank you for being such an amazing teacher and being transparent about the whole process. I have a question, what advice would you give to someone who is just starting in their rig building journey?
Thanks so much! My advise is to work for someone else that does it for a living that you want to emulate. This will help you better understand the best ways to do things and to have the resources to deal with problems as they come up as well as where to source materials and parts as you need them and how to organize a business in this fashion. That's not always possible of course, but it would have saved me some time and headaches had I done that.
Really enjoyed this video. This may have been addressed in the comments but you need to consider the cost of shipping and insurance. Shipping is not cheap. I live in Panama City, Florida so my equipment would have to travel a long way. Considering what it has cost me to ship guitars I have sold this could add $100 to $300 (that is traveling to and from your selected builder) to your cost. Again, thanks for making this and all the other videos!
Yes, and could be a good reason to select certain builders over others closer to your region.
I can’t imagine the amount of hustle it must take to become a full time professional rig builder..
I’m not in the game, but for those doing it full time, if you don’t have a reputation or a big social media following I’m sure it can be hard and hard to start from scratch.
Excellent Video Mason!!! Saving my pennies Bruddah!!!
Plenty of great rig builders out there to choose from
Thanks for doing this video! I’ve been wondering what a professional pedal board build would cost so this was great.
🙏🙏🙏 hope it helps!
A bonafide buffer going into the poly tune 3 that already has a bonafide buffer? 🤔 I’m confused
These are just generalized Pedals, if you want to get a more concrete video on signal path, we have a separate video for that. This is to sort of give a generalized overview of how many pedals were talking about and what would ordinarily show up in a rig that size.
@@VertexEffectsInc oh ok right on, I just bought a poly tune 3 because it had a buffer. I’m a newb, so still trying to figure it all out. Thank you for the feedback! ✌️
@@owlsonik37 all good, thanks for asking!
Great video! Love the info provided here. I’m embarking on my DIY build and using a vertex board and other accessories from them. My question is would you put a buffer in front of PCB10 if there’s already buffers in the unit? I’m using that switcher in my build. I thought would use a passive patch bay so that I wouldn’t need to ‘re buffer’ the signals but perhaps I’m wrong in that? Thanks for any input
What's the true cost of having a board that fails in mid gig? Certainly embarrassment, possibly humiliation. A pro built rig is like insurance, might not be TSA proof, but certainly wouldn't want stuff sloshing around in a case and causing failures. There's a ton of pro builders out there. Mason is the only one I've seen who gives all the tips tricks and shares his know how to DIYers to get the pro results on their own. Respect.
For sure…it’s a great insurance policy and a quality rig builder is worth their weight in gold! We listed tons of good ones in the description!
Go to Home Depot, 15 foot roll of Velcro $30, Werner or Little Giant 1x4 painting stand, $30-$60
Yeah, you could do that, but it’s not the same quality material is with a professional would use. Even when we do our video showing all the DIY tutorials I’m still recommending the proper materials, and I’m sure that there are a bunch of workarounds but they’re still going to be inferior to the tried-and-true standards.
You mean I can support the channel by buying a Vertex pedal? Like the SSS SRV? Like I just did? Cool! Lol, looking forward to incorporating that beauty on the board Mason. But you were so sneaky to slip that Cab IR box in there…now I have to go to check out Two Note…
Yes indeed! Thanks for the support and the Cab M is great! And you can download my same IR over on the demo video description section for free!
Excellent breakdown and explanation Mason, this is going to save me a lot of time in the future ;). We also make complete board builds for EU customers...Martyn (Schmidt Array - Germany)
Please make sure to include all the credentials so that we can add it to the master list
Martyn, I didn't make the connection between you and Schmidt Array. You've been added to the list of builders in the description :). Thanks for chiming in!
MLC in Poland also does Custom Rig builds.
Yes!!! We'll add him in the description!
Hey Jason. So in this serial rig where would you put a quality fuzz? in my case a Twin Bender. Im being told it should go before everything including the buffer.
Watch our video on signal path.
Nautilus Effects Systems here in Canberra, Australia.
Scotty got the master builder chops 🔥🔥🔥
Share his credentials below so we can investigate and add to our list
I wanted to show you my pedalboard cause you've inspired me 🙂 I've send it to you via messager. An issue with noise is already gone - just badly tweaked compressor. So. How about rack shelf DiY pedalboard? Legit or kinda nope ? 😉
ADAM, the best way to ensure that I get it it’s just to email us, sometimes when you post links here it will automatically remove them, I’m not sure how to reverse that or maybe it’s just a general UA-cam thing. I’d be happy to look at your work!
Thanks for making the video! My custom-built pedalboard has always been for free, because I don't use pedals xD
Since day 1 of playing guitar, I have always tried to be as minimalistic as possible, because it makes me less "pedal-reliable", and that means less things to carry around. But don't get me wrong, I think pedals are cool, and I always add some emulated pedals in Logic when recording!
Kind regards
Garry
That's one way to go :)
I never built a pedalboard before the one I have now, which has a switcher. I can say you should build your own at least once to increase your own understanding of how they work so you know what you want from a pro if you ever go that route. It's a lot to learn, but so worth it to understand your tone
No doubt, we try to create information here to make it is accessible as possible for people that want to give it a try
@@VertexEffectsInc absolutely love your channel, I've learned so much from you and the boys at That Pedal Show. You also talked me into a hard case, can't believe I've gone this long without one. Thanks so much Mason! 🤘🏼
@CycleQ I hear ya, the TPS guys go on tangents a lot, but it's still pretty informative. These vids are better for step by step how-to's. I still have a lot to learn about power and need better cable organization lol lots to learn
@@jamesnichols5998 TPS is great for pedal demos and having someone synthesize the information about what they're hearing and how that translates to the everyday player. They've veered away from the DIY thing more in the last few years, and are more directed to a beginner DIYer: solderless cables, solderless power, etc. I think it's a bit more entry level, but still has its merits for beginners just getting into it. Ultimately, you have to solder and get in a little deeper to really have a pro level quality rig.
Great information and resource. I learn a lot from you. Hope to get a build from you soon. no room for failures on stage..using helix for now.
As said in the video, we don't really offer this but many of the builders mentioned here do!
I would love to learn more about rig building, but it really does take away from the time you need to play and work on new songs so I’m having my rigs built. I built my temporary MC8 rig, but I’m going to use the Gizmo X with it so that looks way more complicated lol! I just want to get these done and have the fun of dialing it all in and be ready to do shows. I can definitely see why it’s so expensive because it’s so tedious and time consuming. My G3 rig is going to take a while to build, but I’m excited to have both done 😊
Another Great Video - Thank you! Quality has a price - so does ignorance. So sharing this information is valuable information! Again, Thank You !
Another great video!
Question: I was looking at the polytune 3 mini and the buffer specs are spot on what you recommend. In this context would you still put a dedicated buffer first as shown in your fictictious serial signal path or straight into the tuner is fine?
And also, would you put a buffer before or after the delay pedal (considering the delay pedal is last in the chain)? If put right before the delay, would that enhance the repeated signals in this case?
Thanks for your time!
What is shown here is just to set the number of pedals and using common pedals to represent each standard category. If you have a buffer on the input you don't need a tuner with a buffer, and if you did have the Polytune, you'd leave it in true bypass as you don't need to input buffers in a row.
I strongly believe that Sound of Silence (with master builder Göran Elmquist in the lead) in Sweden should be on that map of professional custom rig builders. Göran has been in the business for 35 years, his stuff gets used by touring musicians all the time, there's plenty of customization options and the quality is absolutely top-notch. Or maybe you've already investigated Sound of Silence and deemed them non-worthy for some reason? If so, please let us know why. Thanks!
Please send info, I don’t know of them
Agreed, Göran’s stuff is top notch!
@@VertexEffectsInc This is weird. I've written a reply three times but the comment disappears every time. Might be that YT isn't all that fond of links, even when they're not fully written out. Anyhow, search for "Sound of Silence" and "Göran Elmquist" and you'll find their site. They have an option for Swedish or English text (just click the British flag for English). They also have social media accounts under the same name. If you need more than that, let me know and I'll give you whatever I can!
@@MrGul Maybe YT is blocking the link? I added them in the description.
@@VertexEffectsInc Great, thanks!
Is it worth getting a switcher if I run my pedals into the front of my tube amp? My amp is a 30 watt 1x12 combo and has no effects loop. My pedalboard would consist of a wah pedal, fuzz, gain/od, clean boost, vibe, tremolo, and delay for the most part. Thanks for any help.
You need to have at least one buffer after the Fuzz in any case in order to keep your tone fresh and clear by compensating cables length. With regard to a switcher it depends on in what kind of context you intend to use the board. If you are playing at home you are not necessarily required to activate/deactivate a lot of pedals to change your entire sound by pressing just one button. If you are playing live then a (good) switcher allows you to do just that. You can define in advance per button which pedals should be active (and which ones not). This avoids tap dancing. Furthermore, if you have midi pedals you might switch the sounds of these pedals by tapping the same single button. So this,kind of switching allows you to concentrate more on playing instead of switching, which is very beneficial especially live.
Hope this helps a bit. I recommend to check quite some other clips of the rig doctor, and clips by That Pedal Show as well, there is a lot to learn. Have fun!
Depends if you need programming - we have a video on this if you wanna watch it.
@@gregorglasbruch6917 thanks for the reply. It looks as though I will need to do more research. I’m not sure that it makes a difference, but at this time I’m not using any midi capable pedals. My most elaborate pedals are my Earthquakes Devices Avalanche Run 2, Strymon Deco and Drybell Vibe Machine 2. I probably won’t be needing a midi capable switcher I’m guessing.
@@VertexEffectsInc I will look for it. Thanks.
This. Is. So. Useful. Great job - thanks!!! 👍What do you think about EarthBoard (magnetic boot) products?
I’m so glad! I’ve not heard of earth board
I know that this is quite expensive, but the prices are on point, and as mentioned before, it’s almost like an insurance policy on your rig
Absolutely, quality rig builder is worth their weight in gold
Great breakdown. Pulling the curtain back quite a bit 👏
🙏🙏🙏 hope it helps!
Any time I’ve put my boards together they usually take about 4 or 5 hours using sis cables (solder less) and gigrig power setup with a switcher and 8 to 10 pedals .....! May explain why they work but end up looking like a complete wiring mess as if I just piled all the cables/pedals on top of each other .......! Lesson here is just spend the time and actually do a tidy job and end up with a board that actually looks good tidy and solid and also isn’t likely to fall apart when moved ......! If I thought someone would pay me to build them a board I’d actually put the time in and do a good job like I do with my day job (repairing/servicing cars/suvs specialising mainly in Landrovers/rangerovers) ...!
In terms of neatness, sonically the difference would be negligible if the materials are quality, power supply is quality and the pedals themselves are reasonably well built. I’ve seen plenty of beautiful rigs that are problematic and plenty of messy boards that are silent and sound great. Looks aren’t always everything.
Vertex Effects True that! I can vouch for that too when it comes to automobiles .....! Usually the more prettier the more problematic.....! Well at least it keeps one busy ....! Unrelated topic ish! The nova drive landed in the post on Thursday , eventually got to literally throw it on the board on Friday evening just before heading for a wedding gig, seems to work pretty good but will need more tweaking to get it sounding better akin to how the Boss jb2 sounds with both sides of it stacked in series’s (angry > bd2) which makes a single coil Strat bridge into a vox ac15 sound like a les Paul into a cranked Marshall slp100 without the deafening volume!
🔥🙌 thank you Mason for including Philippines 🥰
🙏🙏🙏
You should add in Best Tronics Pro Audio
Yes...how could we forget! I will add!
Here in Brazil we have Guitartech. They are making custom pedalboards for more than 30 years. Nice work.
Send his info!
How would you go about making your own trs to stereo cables? Nobody makes those with the trs at a 90degree angle. I’m trying to connect a zelzah, a deco, and a flint on a mini board in full stereo.
We make them www.therigdr.com, we also sell them at Sweetwater
Question, what is the best vendor to order bulk cable and/or tips from? I believe one of My George L (solderless) shorted out for a second, luckily it was immediately prior having to play live!
I use Best Tronics or Performance Audio or Redco.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks! Redco came in about 3 days (Im in NY)!
eric Johnson just has a board on the floor, that's it! and a few pedals. that's it. I like his approach, just do it yourself you know what you like its not rocket science
Thats a good way too!!
Mystic Pedalboards ♥️♥️
Send info
@@VertexEffectsInc Louiseville (Québec) Canada
@@maudbertrand2591 Added
Good vid Mason!
🙏🙏🙏 Thanks Mario!
Midi costs? Do these builders tend to offer midi programming or just the wiring?
It's at the discretion of the builder. Some might include some basic programming to ensure the implementation is right but wont' do specific programming as there is some presumption that the customer knows their own gear. I generally talk people out of using products they're not comfortable with as it can make it difficult for them to have competency with the rig once it leaves the rig builder's workshop.
Instead of using a switcher loop system, can you use an 8, 16 or 32 I/O input/output Interface with USB? The USB cable can be connected from your I/O Interface to your digital Floorboard process like a Line 6, Fractal FM9, etc. What I/O USB Interfaces do you recommend using?
I’m not following the purpose of having a 32 input output interface
@@VertexEffectsInc Can you make a video lesson about Troubleshooting pedalboards that a connected in serial that has 10 or 20 pedals and trying to find the intermittent audio patch cable. The hard part of troubleshooting is all the cables are between the guitar pedals side chassis from output to input so you can't use an Ohm meter to measure the center conductor and you can remove the input plug or output plug because most guitar pedals use side mounted jacks so it make it harder to troubleshoot when the center conductors are intermittent. So without removing the audio patch cable, how would you troubleshoot and find the bad audio cable that is in one of the serial patch cables on the pedal board?
@@waynegram8907 we did a similar video with Rhett Shull, the technique is mostly the same, start at the end and work backwards adding one pedal at at time :)
I think Tonehunter in Germany has gone out of business. Saw him write something about it on reddit, I might be able to find it, if interested.
Bummer!
@@VertexEffectsInc Hi, I build Pedalboards in Cologne Germany where Tonehunter used to be situated. It would be much appreciated if i could be added to the list! I studied mechanical engineering worked as a mechanical designer for a long time and now I build rigs. Greetings from Germany and all the best.
@@ingenout sure, please add your information so we can include it.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thansk a lot !, Name: INGENOUT Web Page: ingenout.com/ Country: Germany. if you need anything else let me know and I'll have it sent to you.
I'm having a difficult time finding a power supply that meets my needs. TcHelicon acoustic at 12v 400ma. Digitech trio+ with 9V 800 ma. Beat buddy 9v 500 ma. And the Dittox4 with 9v 300 ma . Please help ? Thansk
Assuming the helicon is 12v center negative, get a Strymon Zuma and a couple of current doubler cables.
You'll need a current doubler for the Trio. Many power supplies can do it, Truetone, Strymon, Cioks. We show so diagrams on how to make these current doubler cables on our website and on our channel as well, you can also buy them pre-made.
The Cioks will do a great job for that. It comes with doublers and it’s a very small unit.
I am also in the process of building apedal board and I also have a Trio +. I have just resigned to not hooking it up to the pedal board power supply and using a separate outlet. However, I'm not a gigging musician so this option would work for me.
Mystic Pedalboards!!!
Send info
@@VertexEffectsInc Louiseville (Québec) Canada J5V2Z2
@@maudbertrand2591 Added to this list
Thanks very much!!! Been waiting 4 a vid like this. I 've just got educated. COOL!!!
Thanks so much for watching!
Question. In the first build why have a buffer go into the polytune if it has the same buffer built into it?
It’s just for reference to set the number of pedals with somewhat generic items. If you want a signal path run down check out our signal path videos.
That wah should also be before the buffer
@@Ferbocarbo Depends on the way...optical Morley, probably doesn't matter. Vintage style, probably before buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc My bad! The one in the video looked like a vintage one!
Fantastic video - really great information! Thank you.
🙏🙏🙏
What kind of rca plugs do you recommend for soldering cables to the cioks power supply?
Switchcraft mini RCA plugs
Great video Mason. Really informative.
🙏🙏🙏
I had a pedalboard done and everything including pedals ...board..wires..velcro
.power supply with about 7 custom pedals..costs me $1800..I guess that was reasonable?
I guess it depends on the number of functions and the builders level but not out of the realm of possibility, your builder probably only make $8-900 total on the rig after recouping parts cost.
You know, that's for you to decide. You got a product you wanted at a price you could afford. The vendor got paid a price he could accept. What do youean, reasonable? Taking into account the vendors debt to college purchases on behalf of the customer, his overheads, tax liabilities, insurance, blah, blah.... Maybe you found it reasonable? Possibly, the supplier took a loss, because any work is better than none? Who knows.
@@VertexEffectsInc well I'm happy with the setup and I've got custom pedals so I believe its worth it..he didn't take very long to do everything like an hour..so I guess it is what it is..and I'm satisfied with the setup..
Blackbird Pedalboards is another great option.
Do they build and assemble pedalboards? Send info
Found it, added! Thanks!
Glad I could help 👍🏼
Hours of these things so add up, I can only imagine yalls speed and efficiency after doing so many
We don't do it for hire...but yes, very time consuming to do well. You don't want a rig builder or a tattoo artist that's in a rush ;)
Outstanding video.. I know I have asked you if you would build a rig for anyone. This is a needed resource, thanks. PS. Nobody makes a better rig than you do. You have the gift. lol
Thanks for the support TJ. Glad you dug the video!
I commented once already, but YT must have thought it was too close to an actual URL.(Check your held comments) NYC Pedalboards
Gotcha...we'll add!
I don't see rig building services on their site, just pedalboards.
@@VertexEffectsInc My bad! I truly thought they did the building. Oooops!
Anyone have output buffer recommendations? I have the polytune at the start of my rig, and I saw the empress buffer but that has a built in boost and I wouldn't run that at the end of a chain, so I am just looking for recommendations on solid output buffers.
My chain goes
Fuzz - wah - Tuner - Compressor - Bonsai - Sugar Drive - Keeley BD2 - SSS - Deco- Carbon Copy Deluxe - Golden reverberator.
Need a buffer at the end.
Look at our recommendations in the links in the description
Just switch your reverb pedal to buffered bypass. A modern pedal in that price range should have a pretty decent buffer that doesn't color the sound.
Yeah, I had omilion do my first pedalboard several years ago. I was somewhat shell shocked at the cost tbh. But it is what it is. And the fact it came back with dog or cat hair all over it (I’m allergic btw) sucked. So every pedalboard since then Ive done myself and a few for friends and I actually like doing it. & it Helps I’m somewhat ocd and an electrical engineer
Where do you buy you power plugs and wire? I just bought a cioks
Cool! Power plugs for Cioks, just get mini Switchcraft RCA's - Markertek, Full Compass, all those places have them. And for the cables I just re-use what they come with and cut them down to size. You can also buy Strymon DC cables in bulk from them in 36" lengths same with Voodoo Lab if you want a shielded DC cable.
So sorry the rig arrived with cat hair on it, that was likely from the beginning days of rig building out of a small apartment. Likely now I have the tools and shop space separate from home to keep things clean and professional.
When comparing the price of a board with and without a switcher, how do you ignore the price of the switcher? Most good switchers cost around $1000 +/- $200. That’s equal to the combined cost of both the TimeLine and Big Sky pedals in this example.
We state in the Intro of the video that we’re presuming through pedals and hardware products are provided, this only looks at the materials and labor necessary to build the pedalboard.
He also listed an estimated cost for a switcher with his labor break downs. $800 - which is in line with a PBC from RJM.
What is the background music between 10 and 20 seconds on this video?
Not sure, a lot of it is license free music that UA-cam provides to creators.
That leaves it up to me to put Denver on the map…
There you go :)
It’s frightening how much a decent sized board actually costs, but I’d guess for most people you don’t go out and spend hundreds or thousands all in one go. For me, I’ve got ten pedals on my board, but it’s taken literally years to buy that collection, one pedal every few months as I wanted them and could afford them. I still need to upgrade my power supply, and then it’ll finally be done, for now anyway…
Typically about half the cost is in materials if you're using good quality stuff. After that the labor is extensive...an hour per pedal at least, more if it's a switcher. Most guys don't give any thought to spending $400 on a pedal, but a hesitate to spend $1000 on assembling a pedalboard packed with $10K in effects. This is why we offer free DIY tutorials here, so you have all the resources to do it yourself and save the labor costs.
Totally get the prices for all of this, but now i can understand better why all the new kids are going for Fractal or Kemper and such, i don’t blame them.
Shout out to Brian from Uni Sound Hong Kong!
Boom!
Shout out to Nice Rack in TORONTO, pure class, Mike Vegas is a amazing builder and a gem of a person.
He looks like he does great work!
Sound Of Silence
Backline verket
Sweden
I think we added them to the list :)
I wouldn't pay master-builder rates for anything that wasn't a remote rack-based unit with wireless MIDI foot-switching. That should be the standard at this point in time. All the performer should have in front of them is a wireless MIDI foot switch panel with a couple of wireless EXP pedals. Everything else should be professionally wired up in an outboard rack unit with remote MIDI switching. If anything less, it should be done by the user themselves as it requires little expertise which is easily obtained via UA-cam instructional videos.
I'm sorry, 150 dollars an hour? and it takes them an hour to do one pedal????? I'm probably ignorant to what building a pedal involves but that is fucking ridiculous. How much engineering knowledge do you really need to know to plug a few pedals into each other? Is it any harder than building a guitar? If it isn't I'll do it myself
They build the cables and would take you about 10x longer per patch cable then them lol.
Build them yourself - trust me, it's easy. I've been building and wiring my own pedalboards for over 10 years now - all it took was a few youtube videos, some basic soldering practice (about 2-3 hours to get the hang of it) and parts orders from somewhere like Redco audio. I've built boards with custom wired pedal loop switch boxes (up to 20 loops) with about $100 worth of parts which would retail for over $1500 plus with very limited experience. I highly recommend giving it a go - it is absolutely not a black art as some might suggest.
@@sethtincopa1912 You're literally just plugging a cable into a pedal. It's not rocket science. Its not like you're building a PC. This is about as easy to do as plugging in your iphone or android to charge. I also don't know what people do with these "professionally" build boards if they constantly change pedals. I know when I change pedals, I usually have to tweak my board's layout a bit and change the wiring.
@@ArrakisOCE this...i solder my own cables and have built the actual board...if i was an A list pro who had a tech, yeah I might pay someone to keep my board in top condition...but to pay these rates for small venues or my basement LOL...come ONNNN
@@scottraycraft5151 It all depends on time and requirement. If you have the time to learn and it's a simple application - sure, go for it. If it's a professional application and there a complexities (gain staging, impedance matching, signal summing/merging, AD/DA or line/balanced conversions, MIDI, etc) then it would be absolutely worthwhile getting a professional in. I've learned the hard way over a decade and probably still don't get it right. If I were still in the industry I would just pay someone like this and have the peace of mind that it's a good setup.