I personally prefer Super Metroid's replay value, although I do agree that there's more to do in Hollow Knight. My problem is that, in Hollow Knight, you have to do the same, linear thing from King's Pass to Mantis Claw every single time you replay the game. Yes, Super Metroid has an intended order to do things in, but you have so much freedom how, or even if you do things in the "intended order." I also like how Super Metroid does the wall jump. The limiting factor isn't what wall you're climbing or having the ability, rather, it's your skill and proficiency with using the wall jump and the muscle memory to time it correctly.
Yeah but hollow knight actively encourages sequence breaking and it’s pretty easy to completely destroy the game even at the start. Hollow knight is the best metroidvania for that.
Sad to see you're not really active. Since You're humor and way of making the videos is really great and I loved watching them :D hope to see a new one soon. Or at least would love to see
Also what modern pixel games do wrong and Super Metroid did so right is readability. In most modern pixel games characters and backgrounds blend together to much. I don't now why this lesson of good design got lost over the years.
This actually bothers me even more in 3D games, but it's an overlooked problem in general. I tend toward Nintendo's art design and this is a big reason.
Personally I enjoyed Super Metroid far more than Hollow Knight, but I don’t think any of my issues with HK are inherently bad choices; Super is just the kind of game I prefer. The world was a little too big for my liking in HK, and I wish there was a bit more variety in how places looked. Even though Super is shorter, I’ve probably spent much more time with the game (I’ve played each for the first time in 2019) because it’s a lot easier for me to replay. I only did HK once. Outside of combat and controls (which HK nails), Super is pretty much perfect in my eyes. HK is still great, though. Btw, I really dig this channel’s sense of humor
You've pretty well summed up my feelings here. Most of the criticism I have for Hollow Knight looks like it might be addressed in its sequel-particularly adding more tonal variety-but it's a tough ask to put together a perfectly paced game like Super Metroid these days.
I've never seen anyone else say this so maybe I'm the only one, but for me Super Metroid fell off in the late game-- not hard enough to make it bad, but substantially. Samus is like a quarter the height of the entire screen and isn't very maneuverable; you pointed that out, and it's not necessarily a flaw. However, the clunkiness of the controls is just ill-suited for lategame segments. Then, that's combined with the fact that the game upgrades your health about a billion times. I beat Super Metroid, but towards the end, I didn't feel skilled, I felt like I had so much health that I could stumble around and bump into enemies and still win. Compare that to HK, where there aren't that many upgrades and most of them expand your moveset. Even easy enemies can hit you, and they'll do like an eighth of your HP if they do. Even in easy areas you still have to fight, your upgrades never play the game for you. Now, obviously some people are really good at Super Metroid. I'm not saying that the way the game is designed doesn't allow someone to be skilled, it's just that they throw so much extra health and weapon upgrades at you that the game never actually demands that skill. Maybe if I went back and played it again a couple more times or tried to speedrun it I would feel differently, but I just wish the combat were a lot deeper.
7:00 well, about that Hollow Knight map... I fell like this was intentional. The first part of the game is pretty linear: you travel to Greenpath, Fungal Wastes, City of Tears using Hornet as a guide. You can theoretically access Crystal Peak, (although it requires a bunch of geo farming), Fog Canyon (there's not much to do there) and Deepnest (but it's heavily guarded and is not a pleasant place on its own). I want to say, the player is most likely going to venture to City of Tears and meet Hornet there. Then the clear path forward is blocked and the statue at the fountain kinda points your attention backwards. And I disagree with the lack of goals. For me, the Fog Canyon was a big mystery since you can't really explore much of it in the beginning. There's one room in the Fungal Wastes which is actually part of Queen's Gardens (just like that breakable tunnel to Maridia), which was bugging me for a long time. The dreamer shrine in the Resting Grounds gives you pretty clear directions. But all in all I have to admit, HK wants you to explore the world by yourself, it doesn't force you to. It even does that Dark Souls thing (forgive me the comparison) of hiding an entire optional area behing a secret wall (Hive), although unlike DS it's pretty clear it exists. I feel like this "open worldness" adds a lot of replay value, e.g. on my second playthrough I actually went to Deepnest instead of City of Tears, explored all the areas below and arrived at the City from the right. I love Super Metroid's world design, but it feels a little linear for me. P.S. you gotta admit, charms are better rewards than missle tanks :)
I had trouble getting into Hollow Knight. It wasn't bad, but it was just... not that charming. My friends convinced me to get to Hornet, and I remember having fun, but it didn't fully grab me. I absolutely recommend it, but I couldn't bring myself to play it.
I eventually reached the point where Hollow Knight overtook Super Metroid as my favorite game. The controls are what pushed things in favor of Hollow Knight. The game feels good to play. But both games are fantastic. I've replayed both numerous times and I will always love both games.
I personally prefer Super Metroid, though I respect your opinion. My problem with Hollow Knight is that until Mantis Claw, you do the exact same thing every time, but that's fairly negligible, and every time my save slots are full of won runs, I'll delete 2 of them, speedrun to mantis claw, then go to Dirtmouth. When I want to play Hollow Knight again, I'll pick up one of those 2 saves. I also prefer Super Metroid's controls, but that's just a matter of opinion. I like the fact that the wall jump is tricky, because it means that you're less likely to attempt crazy skips on your first couple runs. But once you've mastered the game, using those wall jumps is so much fun. Also, finding ways to not use collectibles is fun. Who needs space jump? Just shinespark out of Draygon and wall jump instead of space jump anywhere you can. With Hollow Knight, it feels like the movement abilities are locks to a key rather than a ladder to climb over a wall. They feel like they have a specific purpose that they’re custom-made for, rather than being a one-size-fits-all deal like in Super Metroid. If you’ve played both games you know what I mean. Both games are incredible, but I will always prefer Super Metroid.
@@chuck_duck The linear start of hollow knight is intentional, for teach you the game. After the city of tears the world is really open. There are sequence-breaking tricks in hollow knight, too, like the jump on tge background objects, the various skip with nail jumps and, most important of all, the game itself can be finished in many different ways.
@@chuck_duck I genuinely don't know what you mean by your issue with hollow knight's movement abilities. the only one I felt that way about was isma's tear since it's just a simple upgrade to a basic action and only unlocks a few things (but then again I felt the same way about high jump boots in super metroid). I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't even know if I disagree, I just don't think I fully understand what you mean
Great content! Great production value! One gripe: You include lots of footage that's veeery slightly spoiler-ey. For examples, open Read More... I personally disagree with the conclusion, but I can't fault you for my problems. While both games are at the top of my favorites list, I think HK happens to be better. While SM was hugely influential not just for MVs but for video games in general, that importance isn't part of the contest for me. HK was almost immediately and still remains my GOAT. (For one, it has a superior randomizer :P) The big ol' Baby Metroid at the end of SM, and the spider-thing-in-disguise-of-a-grub in the coloseum of HK.
There are definitely Super Metroid spoilers. I didn't really consider the Hollow Knight one to be a spoiler, but that's something I mean to be conscious of with newer games. Thanks for pointing it out. And I think I would agree that a game's cultural importance doesn't necessarily make it great to play today, but I think Super Metroid has aged pretty well. Its age is an advantage, but only in the sense that games from that era were more free to focus on doing one thing really well.
Nothing you can critique Super Metroid for (short, sometimes clunky combat) can be explained by either the limitations of the hardware, or the intention of the game - at its core, metroid was never a hardcore or combat game, and there were limits on games due to the way the snes worked. A lot of the things that make it timeless (the sequence breaking, the minor glitches), can't be dismissed as "an accident", because of how many things are intentionally added to the map to enable specific shortcuts. Then in Hollow Knight, which I do enjoy. Some critiques of the game (the story being left plot holed re:the radiance, original entry of the knight etc, the pacing, some areas being too similar and others not fitting the world as well) can't be. In fact, I would say hollow knight goes out of its way to tell a deeply philosophical story about light vs dark, and the nature of reality. But it just doesn't finish this job. It also goes out of its way to be a bigger game, and yet that makes it have pacing issues. And then you look at some of the things that make it a great speed game - particularly in terms of sequence breaking. No doubt some of these were intentional, but some were outright removed or added by mistake through patches. Both amazing games. But in terms of the product of minds, one achieved what I consider total realization of an outstanding team, and the other is just a really good game. :) also hendrix vs SRV blah blah blah
Metroid is a masterpiece in terms of pacing and level design, period. HK is a great game when it doesn't try to be Celeste (White Palace) or put us in a 45 minute long annoying boss rush.
Marcelo Colonia fortunately, PoH is not only optional but actually hidden. Nobody is going to mistake that for something you need to do to beat the game (although it does technically let you beat the game without actually beating it).
@@supapaw ? PoH is the last Pantheon. Godmaster does nothing to be like Celeste, and both White Palace and its extension Path of Pain existed in 2017. I'd argue the White Palace is more Super Meat boy inspired than anything.
I really would never imagine myself liking super metroid or any metroid for that matter and here I am all these years later loving the metroidvania genre
accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour sex before marriage and porn is a sin you will go to hell if you dont repent and turn away from your wicked ways GOD bless
If you need an example of a game’s sales success stemming from promotion alone as opposed to praise of content, look no further than Metroid Dread, which has only been out for a week and already has less viewers on Twitch than Hollow Knight, a similar game from 2017 that was made by 2 people
@@gsquadxz I’m saying dread is underwhelming with a lack of content for a game with a huge budget that was in production for 4 years and had been conceptualized for more than a decade by the project leads. It’s objectively a solid game, but it could have and should have been so much more.
It’s really a shame that Nintendo’s gone from amazing games like Super Metroid, which pushed the boundaries of what games could accomplish (at the time it was made), to Pokémon or Mario number 4XXX, which is the exact same game as the previous 7 million instalments but with better textures (again), but it also costs $80 and you need to buy a $500 console to play it. Nintendo and EA are the reason why most invested in the video game industry turn to Indie games for original ideas and developments and not AAA movies. Oh but random unrelated garbage aside great review, personally I prefer Hollow Knight but just as with everybody else, the games are about equal in objective value, the game you like better is always up to personal taste.
Equal in objective value? Nah, Hollow Knight is a much tighter and richer game in every aspect. It's really not a fair comparison because of the 23 year gap between the two, but Super Metroid, while good for its time has since been surpassed.
@@gravitydragon1904 If Super Metroid were to be remade in the style of Dread it wouldn't even be an argument. The nostalgia argument would easily be thrown out. That being said I still believe Super Metroid is better. The most important aspect to a metroidvania is movement mechanics and how they allow you to crush foes. There simply isn't anything within the genre that matches space jump + screw attack or the insane shinespark capabilities. The movement and map are designed so well that you don't even need f!st traveling, which is something even Hollow Knight can't lay claim to
only reason why super metroid is better than hollow knight is NOSTALGIA I don't feel anything abut metroid series but I fell in love with hk so yea. guess what I prefer ugly ass cs 1.6 over any fps shooters that exist or will exist because of same reason N O S T A L G I A
I personally prefer Super Metroid's replay value, although I do agree that there's more to do in Hollow Knight. My problem is that, in Hollow Knight, you have to do the same, linear thing from King's Pass to Mantis Claw every single time you replay the game. Yes, Super Metroid has an intended order to do things in, but you have so much freedom how, or even if you do things in the "intended order." I also like how Super Metroid does the wall jump. The limiting factor isn't what wall you're climbing or having the ability, rather, it's your skill and proficiency with using the wall jump and the muscle memory to time it correctly.
Yeah but hollow knight actively encourages sequence breaking and it’s pretty easy to completely destroy the game even at the start. Hollow knight is the best metroidvania for that.
I enjoyed your style of humour, looking forward to the Spelunky video.
That super metroid, a 1994 game can compete head to head with such a current and polished game speaks highly of the work done on this old gem
This was so good! You need to do a new one - Hollow Knight vs Metroid Dread :D
Sad to see you're not really active. Since You're humor and way of making the videos is really great and I loved watching them :D hope to see a new one soon. Or at least would love to see
Also what modern pixel games do wrong and Super Metroid did so right is readability. In most modern pixel games characters and backgrounds blend together to much. I don't now why this lesson of good design got lost over the years.
This actually bothers me even more in 3D games, but it's an overlooked problem in general. I tend toward Nintendo's art design and this is a big reason.
Why is there such good editing and narration for something with so few views, is this ripped from somewhere
This is probably a great reason to seem suspicious, so thanks.
Personally I enjoyed Super Metroid far more than Hollow Knight, but I don’t think any of my issues with HK are inherently bad choices; Super is just the kind of game I prefer. The world was a little too big for my liking in HK, and I wish there was a bit more variety in how places looked.
Even though Super is shorter, I’ve probably spent much more time with the game (I’ve played each for the first time in 2019) because it’s a lot easier for me to replay. I only did HK once.
Outside of combat and controls (which HK nails), Super is pretty much perfect in my eyes. HK is still great, though.
Btw, I really dig this channel’s sense of humor
You've pretty well summed up my feelings here.
Most of the criticism I have for Hollow Knight looks like it might be addressed in its sequel-particularly adding more tonal variety-but it's a tough ask to put together a perfectly paced game like Super Metroid these days.
Haha... HK 'nails'
I've never seen anyone else say this so maybe I'm the only one, but for me Super Metroid fell off in the late game-- not hard enough to make it bad, but substantially.
Samus is like a quarter the height of the entire screen and isn't very maneuverable; you pointed that out, and it's not necessarily a flaw. However, the clunkiness of the controls is just ill-suited for lategame segments. Then, that's combined with the fact that the game upgrades your health about a billion times. I beat Super Metroid, but towards the end, I didn't feel skilled, I felt like I had so much health that I could stumble around and bump into enemies and still win. Compare that to HK, where there aren't that many upgrades and most of them expand your moveset. Even easy enemies can hit you, and they'll do like an eighth of your HP if they do. Even in easy areas you still have to fight, your upgrades never play the game for you.
Now, obviously some people are really good at Super Metroid. I'm not saying that the way the game is designed doesn't allow someone to be skilled, it's just that they throw so much extra health and weapon upgrades at you that the game never actually demands that skill. Maybe if I went back and played it again a couple more times or tried to speedrun it I would feel differently, but I just wish the combat were a lot deeper.
best intro i have heard yet
The target demographic for this channel is people who have never seen another UA-cam video before.
Grandfather vs Grandson
Thank you for this! Awesome content
I saw this on Reddit and clicked it on a whim.Great video man!
Love these videos. Great comparison video. And of course you picked right.
I loved this lol! Subbed.
Hey, thanks!
Review Metroid fusion pls ty
7:00 well, about that Hollow Knight map...
I fell like this was intentional. The first part of the game is pretty linear: you travel to Greenpath, Fungal Wastes, City of Tears using Hornet as a guide. You can theoretically access Crystal Peak, (although it requires a bunch of geo farming), Fog Canyon (there's not much to do there) and Deepnest (but it's heavily guarded and is not a pleasant place on its own). I want to say, the player is most likely going to venture to City of Tears and meet Hornet there. Then the clear path forward is blocked and the statue at the fountain kinda points your attention backwards.
And I disagree with the lack of goals.
For me, the Fog Canyon was a big mystery since you can't really explore much of it in the beginning. There's one room in the Fungal Wastes which is actually part of Queen's Gardens (just like that breakable tunnel to Maridia), which was bugging me for a long time.
The dreamer shrine in the Resting Grounds gives you pretty clear directions.
But all in all I have to admit, HK wants you to explore the world by yourself, it doesn't force you to. It even does that Dark Souls thing (forgive me the comparison) of hiding an entire optional area behing a secret wall (Hive), although unlike DS it's pretty clear it exists.
I feel like this "open worldness" adds a lot of replay value, e.g. on my second playthrough I actually went to Deepnest instead of City of Tears, explored all the areas below and arrived at the City from the right.
I love Super Metroid's world design, but it feels a little linear for me.
P.S. you gotta admit, charms are better rewards than missle tanks :)
I personally think that there are far too many energy and weaponry tanks in Super Metroid. Still a phenomenal game though.
Super metroid WON!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYY9:22
Samus would be proud for this video!!!
This is underrated
I will always prefer Super Metroid, mainly because I'm good
You should make more videos I think you can be the next big thing on UA-cam
Good luck your videos are good
This is a great review.
In my opinion, Hollow Knight is better than super Metroid by a hefty bit
I had trouble getting into Hollow Knight. It wasn't bad, but it was just... not that charming. My friends convinced me to get to Hornet, and I remember having fun, but it didn't fully grab me. I absolutely recommend it, but I couldn't bring myself to play it.
I eventually reached the point where Hollow Knight overtook Super Metroid as my favorite game. The controls are what pushed things in favor of Hollow Knight. The game feels good to play. But both games are fantastic. I've replayed both numerous times and I will always love both games.
I personally prefer Super Metroid, though I respect your opinion. My problem with Hollow Knight is that until Mantis Claw, you do the exact same thing every time, but that's fairly negligible, and every time my save slots are full of won runs, I'll delete 2 of them, speedrun to mantis claw, then go to Dirtmouth. When I want to play Hollow Knight again, I'll pick up one of those 2 saves.
I also prefer Super Metroid's controls, but that's just a matter of opinion. I like the fact that the wall jump is tricky, because it means that you're less likely to attempt crazy skips on your first couple runs. But once you've mastered the game, using those wall jumps is so much fun.
Also, finding ways to not use collectibles is fun. Who needs space jump? Just shinespark out of Draygon and wall jump instead of space jump anywhere you can.
With Hollow Knight, it feels like the movement abilities are locks to a key rather than a ladder to climb over a wall. They feel like they have a specific purpose that they’re custom-made for, rather than being a one-size-fits-all deal like in Super Metroid. If you’ve played both games you know what I mean.
Both games are incredible, but I will always prefer Super Metroid.
@@chuck_duck The linear start of hollow knight is intentional, for teach you the game. After the city of tears the world is really open. There are sequence-breaking tricks in hollow knight, too, like the jump on tge background objects, the various skip with nail jumps and, most important of all, the game itself can be finished in many different ways.
@@chuck_duck I genuinely don't know what you mean by your issue with hollow knight's movement abilities. the only one I felt that way about was isma's tear since it's just a simple upgrade to a basic action and only unlocks a few things (but then again I felt the same way about high jump boots in super metroid). I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't even know if I disagree, I just don't think I fully understand what you mean
Great content! Great production value!
One gripe: You include lots of footage that's veeery slightly spoiler-ey. For examples, open Read More...
I personally disagree with the conclusion, but I can't fault you for my problems. While both games are at the top of my favorites list, I think HK happens to be better. While SM was hugely influential not just for MVs but for video games in general, that importance isn't part of the contest for me. HK was almost immediately and still remains my GOAT. (For one, it has a superior randomizer :P)
The big ol' Baby Metroid at the end of SM, and the spider-thing-in-disguise-of-a-grub in the coloseum of HK.
There are definitely Super Metroid spoilers. I didn't really consider the Hollow Knight one to be a spoiler, but that's something I mean to be conscious of with newer games. Thanks for pointing it out.
And I think I would agree that a game's cultural importance doesn't necessarily make it great to play today, but I think Super Metroid has aged pretty well. Its age is an advantage, but only in the sense that games from that era were more free to focus on doing one thing really well.
Try out some SM hacks buddy
@@vincentchampagne961 I have, and I do. Try out some HK mods buddy? I don't see the relevance here.
Nothing you can critique Super Metroid for (short, sometimes clunky combat) can be explained by either the limitations of the hardware, or the intention of the game - at its core, metroid was never a hardcore or combat game, and there were limits on games due to the way the snes worked.
A lot of the things that make it timeless (the sequence breaking, the minor glitches), can't be dismissed as "an accident", because of how many things are intentionally added to the map to enable specific shortcuts.
Then in Hollow Knight, which I do enjoy. Some critiques of the game (the story being left plot holed re:the radiance, original entry of the knight etc, the pacing, some areas being too similar and others not fitting the world as well) can't be. In fact, I would say hollow knight goes out of its way to tell a deeply philosophical story about light vs dark, and the nature of reality. But it just doesn't finish this job. It also goes out of its way to be a bigger game, and yet that makes it have pacing issues.
And then you look at some of the things that make it a great speed game - particularly in terms of sequence breaking. No doubt some of these were intentional, but some were outright removed or added by mistake through patches.
Both amazing games. But in terms of the product of minds, one achieved what I consider total realization of an outstanding team, and the other is just a really good game.
:) also hendrix vs SRV blah blah blah
Metroid is a masterpiece in terms of pacing and level design, period.
HK is a great game when it doesn't try to be Celeste (White Palace) or put us in a 45 minute long annoying boss rush.
Marcelo Colonia fortunately, PoH is not only optional but actually hidden. Nobody is going to mistake that for something you need to do to beat the game (although it does technically let you beat the game without actually beating it).
@@shreeshfuup7058 true, but I said nothing about PoH.
@@supapaw you said 45 minute long boss rush. I don't think anything else fits that description. Also, HK came out before Celeste.
@@yerman0564 last pantheon.
Also, godmaster came after Celeste if memory serves.
@@supapaw ? PoH is the last Pantheon.
Godmaster does nothing to be like Celeste, and both White Palace and its extension Path of Pain existed in 2017. I'd argue the White Palace is more Super Meat boy inspired than anything.
I really would never imagine myself liking super metroid or any metroid for that matter and here I am all these years later loving the metroidvania genre
accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour sex before marriage and porn is a sin you will go to hell if you dont repent and turn away from your wicked ways GOD bless
If you need an example of a game’s sales success stemming from promotion alone as opposed to praise of content, look no further than Metroid Dread, which has only been out for a week and already has less viewers on Twitch than Hollow Knight, a similar game from 2017 that was made by 2 people
Are you saying Dread is bad
As someone new to Metroid that played both games... I enjoyed Dread more than Hollow Knigh, I don't know why people are so desperate to shit on Dread
@@gsquadxz I’m saying dread is underwhelming with a lack of content for a game with a huge budget that was in production for 4 years and had been conceptualized for more than a decade by the project leads. It’s objectively a solid game, but it could have and should have been so much more.
faites jouer des jeunes aux 2 jeux, vous aller voir lequel est leur préféré
It’s really a shame that Nintendo’s gone from amazing games like Super Metroid, which pushed the boundaries of what games could accomplish (at the time it was made), to Pokémon or Mario number 4XXX, which is the exact same game as the previous 7 million instalments but with better textures (again), but it also costs $80 and you need to buy a $500 console to play it.
Nintendo and EA are the reason why most invested in the video game industry turn to Indie games for original ideas and developments and not AAA movies.
Oh but random unrelated garbage aside great review, personally I prefer Hollow Knight but just as with everybody else, the games are about equal in objective value, the game you like better is always up to personal taste.
Equal in objective value? Nah, Hollow Knight is a much tighter and richer game in every aspect. It's really not a fair comparison because of the 23 year gap between the two, but Super Metroid, while good for its time has since been surpassed.
Most mainline Mario games have plenty of unique aspects to each game. Newer Pokémon games are kind of busted, but Nintendo doesn't develop them
@@gravitydragon1904 If Super Metroid were to be remade in the style of Dread it wouldn't even be an argument. The nostalgia argument would easily be thrown out.
That being said I still believe Super Metroid is better. The most important aspect to a metroidvania is movement mechanics and how they allow you to crush foes. There simply isn't anything within the genre that matches space jump + screw attack or the insane shinespark capabilities. The movement and map are designed so well that you don't even need f!st traveling, which is something even Hollow Knight can't lay claim to
Haha, great video!
only reason why super metroid is better than hollow knight is NOSTALGIA
I don't feel anything abut metroid series but I fell in love with hk so yea.
guess what I prefer ugly ass cs 1.6 over any fps shooters that exist or will exist because of same reason N O S T A L G I A
Yup, nostalgia is a powerful weapon
Nah