Is Calvinism Biblical? The Answer may Surprise you! (With Greg Laurie)
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- Опубліковано 29 лис 2018
- Is Calvinism Biblical or Not? Have you ever been distressed over Predestination and if God has chosen you to be saved? In this video, Greg Laurie discusses if people are predestined to hell or heaven, and tells us how to be certain we are in fact chosen by God to be saved and be counted into the ranks of the elect!
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Pastor Greg Laurie I reject hyper Calvinism . As well God choses his children as vessels of mercy . He actively works in the elects lives to bring them to repentance. He passively moves his hand away from the non elect to let them do what they love and that is sin u see the difference if u did a thorough investigation and didn’t go by what chuck smith and Dave hunt say u would know that u are misrepresenting reformed theology .... btw the reformers who fought against Rome all believed reformed theology to be the true biblical teaching take off the traditional lens and seek the truth. At the end of the day if we had something to do with our salvation we get the glory not God . But God is the author of salvation not man. Ur freewill theology is very man centered just as a lot of quote on quote evangelical Christianity today and most side w Rome rather then the church fathers . If I chose God that is a work sir but Ephesians 2:8-9 says we are saved by grace through faith THAT IS NOT OF yourselves lest anyman can boast it is a gift from God even our faith is a gift. Come to me all u are weary and heavy laden in its context is speaking to those who are weighed down by their sins , which would line up with other scriptures that refer to blessed are the poor in spirit for they shall see God . The point is someone can not come to genuine faith in Christ until they recognize they have sinned against a Holy God and that we deserve hell
@@jasonharkness2992 where does it say believing God is a work? If somebody knocks on my door, and I answer it, and he offers me a free gift, it is not a work to accept it. Works have to do with the law.
@@jasonharkness2992 how do we deserve Hell if Adam and Eve never had a free will to choose anything?
I love you Greg. I am a former Calvary Chapel Elder. I used to believe as you. But now embrace the Doctrines of Grace. But brother, your clip here did a dis service to everyone. The applause of the audience just highlighted how emotion so often trumps exegesis. I pray you take this down. God bless you with wisdom and grace.
@@jasonharkness2992 THEN Jason how do you unpack -that GOD commands ALL MEN Everywhere to REPENT and Turn, why does Jesus Plead with people to turn? why did Paul say GOD appoints the times n places ALL should live so that We might Seek n find HIM. your premise is Wrong, your reading into calvanistic things that are NOT in scripture!!
It’s not Calvin or Luther….Its Jesus!…..
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Calvinism is the Gospel.
And, I, when when I am lifted up, will draw all people to myself.
-Jesus
Kevin Morris oh ok so no one is going to hell then if the way u are interpreting this scripture then no one will be damned ... and if Jesus Died for the sins for all mankind why do people still end up in hell? Oh ya that’s right he died a death so possiably people would be saved . Jesus said I pray for my sheep I do not pray for the world but for all that the Father has given me????? Jesus died perfectly to save all that it was intended for there will be not 1 drop of the saviors blood in vain
@@jasonharkness2992 , drawing all does not mean forcing all. Read Acts 7:51 and Acts 18:6
John 12:32 balances John 6:44.
I’m a Calvinist but I treat everyone like they are elect. God knows everything, I do not. My job is to be faithful and to preach the gospel in season and out of season
Amen
But if you did know you wouldn’t preach to them?
And do you want everybody to be saved? If so, then why do you want something God doesn’t want? If not, then do you let friends know you don’t want everybody to go to heaven?
@@OkieAllDay
God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel said. So that is biblical and the appropriate attitude we should have. I know I am a wretched sinner saved by grace. Therefore, I want other undeserving sinners to know God's grace as well.
Amen, brother. I think Greg Laurie should have a discussion with a calvinist. But there might be "hyper calvinist" people who don't do evangelism, but I never met one.
@@OkieAllDaythis is hypothetical argumentation and it's a waste of time
Predestination is so misunderstood. We must read the whole Bible so that we can get the context. We must not use a few Scriptures to make a doctrinal idea. No, we must study and let God show us the correct meaning of the Scriptures
Yes, reformed theology is what the Spirit reveals
Unless you think Roman catholicism was correct and the reformation was wrong
@@tomtemple69 Reformed theology comes from the traditions of men. Catholic theology can trace back to the first-century Christians (and further back to of course) who understood true worship via songs, incense, and the Eucharist as well as the other sacraments necessary for salvation.
"Reformed theology comes from the traditions of men. Catholic theology can trace back to the first-century Christians "
lol
"as well as the other sacraments necessary for salvation."
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@tomtemple69 those obnoxious laughs after laughing at something biblical is actually hilarious and ironic.
@@TruLuan you think works are necessary for salvation... you're preaching a false gospel according to Galatians 1....
I dont think he is representing Calvinism accurately. I too had a hard time, but I cant deny scripture, which teaches that God had decreed what so ever comes to pass, and men make their own choices.
Men will choose what they want, and all of us were born sinners, loving the things of the world. No one was seeking God, not one. So... This means it is up to God to save us.. so he can do two things:
Send Jesus to die for all, and hope someone comes to him(which we wont, because we are sinners and love our sin) Paul clearly states that in Roman's 3. No one Righteous, no one who seeks God,.
Or
He send his son to die for a people he has known before time began, and when I say known, i mean intimately known them.
At the end of the day we have to ask, why does God save us at all? He is not obligated to do so, but because of his great Love for us, God who is rich in mercy makes us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our sins. Praise be to God!!😁👏👏
This is such an inconsistency. If god decreed for people to deny him then they obviously aren’t making free choices. At least not “free” as most of us would define the word.
@@Jgbeg His decree is bought about by secondary means. So, men make there own choices, sinners are born not wanting God, we know this from scripture Brother, no one seeks after him. God desires to display the fulness of who he is to us, his Love, his justice, his mercy, his grace, his wrath and hatred toward sin. so if he saved all men, where can he display his justice and wrath against sin, if he send us all to hell, where can he display his Love and mercy. God does not forcing men to not believe in him, that is what they are doing. there is not one man who is truly crying out to God from their heart, and God will ignore them. He in fact he has already given him a new heart. God has predestined a people to salvation, His Love has been on them before time, and through the preaching of the gospel, they are called. We all deserve hell for all eternity brother, by nature we were children of wrath, but God.
Eddie Brown i agree with most of what you said, but if God has predestined individuals before the beginning of time to be saved then do those who are non elect really have a choice in the matter? You say god does not force men not to believe in him which I agree to that. But under your systematic that’s exactly what he does. If they are non elect then they cannot choose god therefore there is no choice to make. They are damned from the beginning. Am I wrong?
@@Jgbeg
It's still not a force brother. In the beginning he made Adam and Eve perfect with free will. Giving them one law to obey, not to eat from the fruit. We see he is not the creator of evil, though he do allow is for his Glory. Adam and Eve chose to sin against God, the sin committed by them.
I had questions about election, but scripture is pretty clear, I can not deny it. Paul answers the objection that you and even I raised to election, the question that is raised is, Why does God still blames us? For who is able to resist his will? And Paul answers by saying, who are you a human being to talk back to God. That's a hard rebuke, knowing, that would be the rejection to election, he addressed it and settled it.
Eddie Brown Romans 9 is not a debate between a Calvinist and Arminian. God is saying he has the right to do with the hardened Jew what he pleases.
What’s you’re saying is he is not the author of evil but he has decreed to bring evil to pass? And he’s not the one deciding for the reprobate but he’s the one who decided pre determined him to hell?
Calvinists can't seem to understand that being non-Calvinist doesn't mean we are denying sinful human nature. It means we believe in a God who loves us enough that he lets us choose whether we want to love Him back or not
@@johnalbent Read the book of Ezekial. It's not inability it is rebellion.
theyre really arrogant and think they are the "christian supremacists"
Amen! 🙏🏾📖🌱🕊🙌🏾
Amen.
They think free will means will our savingbour selves and makes God a servant to us and weak.
When the opposite is true.
@@johnalbent the Holy spirit draws all men to him and free will a gift from God allows us to accept God's offer of salvation through faith another gift not of ourselves so we do not boast, or we stay in sin through unbelief and reject it and will be rewarded or cursed justly based on our decision.
So God is not predetermining any one goes to help or heaven.
But he knows the beginning from the end even do.
“who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
John 1:13 NASB
Why would Jesus need to die on the cross if he chose certain people whats the point then, that means there is no hope for anyone but the chosen.
@@sarahanne8415 Jesus died on the cross to save the elect because they are sinners in need of salvation which God freely gives to them apart from works. If u believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins then u are one of the elect. If u believe the Gospel then you are truly blessed. :)
@@inthespirit1278 Jesus died to save everyone but not everyone will accept the gospel
@@Anthony-945 He will save everyone who the Father has chosen for salvation(John 6:39; 2 Thess 2:13). So biblically, Jesus did not die for everyone, He died for the elect only and He will not loose a single one(John 18:9).
@@sarahanne8415 their sin debt still had to be paid . We didn’t put Christ on the cross God did for the elects sake . God chose before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4-11
Who are we created in the image of, God or the devil? Who is *TOTALLY depraved,* God or the devil? Calvin had 56 dissenters executed in Geneva because they rejected his heresies. What more needs to be said?
so you deny original sin and maintain that humanity has inherent righteousness? and who is the heretic?
@@youngsterjoey9038 Do you have to believe in Calvin to be saved?
@@cliffbailey6474 you cannot be Pelagian and believe in Christ as your Savior.
@@youngsterjoey9038 what was my question?
@@cliffbailey6474 do you have amnesia?
A man centered Gospel will always replace the sovereignty of God with what seems fair to man.
Man is not God's counsellor...sadly most these days do not place God highly enough...nor man lowly enough...in their arrogance they create a god that's a figment of their imagination, not the God of the Bible...they want their "god" as a genie in a bottle to serve them...Calvinism 100% biblical...
@@busybody1474 wow all that from his post? He's a hypocrite? You don't know that and you don't know his heart and honestly from what I've seen on both sides there are very loving people like Greg and like others who teach the opposite view which is calvinism. Maybe let me see you unpack Romans 9 for me right now please.....
@@busybody1474 we don't know who God predestined so we need to proclaim the gospel to everyone
This is the problem with non-calvinist. They promote Man above God. Man's choice above God's choice. We are not neutrally moral creatures, our will is enslaved to sin. It is our master. A slave cannot choose their master. A man can not choose to be born again anymore than a baby chooses when to be birthed by the mother. Spirit gives birth to Spirit not flesh gives birth to spirit.
calvinism is a man-centered gospel.
When I was a Calvinist, I used to say, "God has already decreed and made certain all that is and all that will happen. But there are choices man makes." I was so stupid I didn't realize how I was contradicting myself and making no sense. Thank God he delivered me from such claptrap thinking.
Glory to GOD !!
It's contradictory if you have libertarian free will in mind. Man is free to choose but that freedom is limited by God's sovereignty.
That's a contradictory statement in itself. If man's will is limited, it isn't really free.
@@davemitchell116 there are different degrees of freedom just like there are different degrees of authority. No contradiction. Man's creaturely freedom cannot be equal to God's freedom. God does as he pleases and is not limited by anything or anyone.
Freedom is completely free or it's not really freedom. It's only something else disguised as freedom.
Deepest gratitude for setting this straight!
*****WHOMEVER is reading this please pray for my only son's SALVATION. His name is DANIEL. He survived unimaginable trauma and is in a DIRE state.
Please pray The Lord set him free and deliver him from strongholds, addictions and forms of bondage.
Sending a 💝💝💝💝full of love to ALL.
May the live of God, the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Lord please deliver and set free this young man Lord. Please let me see that YOU are the ONLY way for him. I pray this same prayer for my children, family, friends and strangers that are lost Father God, in the Name of Jesus Christ, our Savior and God.
Do you think a person needs to turn from sins in order to be saved?
Mark and I Don't Know..I'm so grateful for your prayers.
Be blessed in Jesus' name.🎁💝
@@thomasj5332 Can you not set aside your question and just lift epiphany of veritas and his son Daniel in your prayers? Smh...
If he is predetermined to be saved he will be. If not, God already knew what he would choose and all the prayers in the works won't change his outcome.
Most Calvinist appear arrogant and cold to me or is that just in my mind? They are very elitist and not humble much.
I thought i was the only one who felt like that. I mean they are so learned with writings of the puritans until sometimes they just show some little ego
Nope i just left a calvinist church.
They believe they're "special".
Yeah, that’s good to know. Hopefully I won’t be arrogant as a Calvinist. Hehe
@@gabrielkinzel3389 not everyone of us are arrogant. You decide how you want to be.
I believe in God, I believe in the trinity and the word of God, so honestly I trust in God and I believe there are some things, many things that are only known to God, and I am happy to let it be.. I have enough with working on my own growth and fighting off Satan.
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with a motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (GODSTIME MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348159811625) tell him I sent an you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you..................
Ignore that Greg Laurie scam bot
Edit: The scam bot thing that replied to your comment
What is trinity? Is that satanism or witchcraft, or both??
@@Dexters.LaBOREatory trinity just means 3 in 1btw its neither and biblically it's called Godhead, you see it all throughout the old and new testament scriptures
@@lightray9573 i honestly got scared there, I thought you called the Trinity un Biblical.
Nothing he just said describes Calvinism. He just presented abuses of theology but not calvinism. Calvanists believe all are going to hell without Salvation. And that yes you do choose but only after God has enabled you to do so. Whoever Christ has set free is free indeed.
Amen
Absolute nonsense he gives men a choice look at Jerusalem he how often would I’ve gathered u but would not God word open men heart but they can choose calvism is destroyed the true gospel message should not be in through a church door All can come All won’t All could calvism destroy the gospel end of 1700 and John and Charles weseley started to preach the whosoever and became the greatest gospel movement that century now it’s back and true gospel preaching is fading out the only thing we need is Christ and him alone and calvism out in theology bin
@@colinlennox1043 Hi Colin, I did not say that I, myself, am a Calvanist. I am simply saying that
Greg did not describe Calvanism
correctly. Nor does he, in every
message present the law that condemns and the Gospel that saves
I love listening to Wesley's sermons read on you tube.
Though, Wesley and Greg
are nothing alike. I do not
think either would say they
are alike.
As far as Jesus saying 'you would
not' this statement is simply
saying just that I.e. they would
not. It doesn't explain the reasoning of why they 'would
not'. A Calvanist would say that
they would not because they
we're not predestined.
I've listened to Greg over 40
years and I have never heard
him say, as Paul said, that we
are enemies of God until,
through Christ, we make
peace with God. He never
presents the entire Gospel
and he teams with heretics
on occasion.
Though, Greg has been. a
super faithful man, I think
his theology is a bit pop
Christianity so, I think he
is unaware of the heresy
of some he gives the
right hand of fellowship.
All around, I wish I were as
faithful and hard working as
he. He is a good example in
that manner. As well, he is
an encouraging guy and such
a good representative of Jesus.
I agree with much of your comment.
I'm not sure I completely recall
this message, just doing the best
I can. Please excuse my wordiness!
God's Best To You
@J C do you read the old testament much? Do you think vessels of wrath or the potter and the clay are new terms introduced by Paul? You should seriously consider reading Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekial, especially Ezekial if you want to know who vessels of wrath are. When God said Jacob I loved and Esau I hated, what is meant by hate used here? Is this same Greek word for hate used anywhere else, like maybe Luke 14:26? Ezekial chapters 3 and 33 tie directly into Acts 18 starting in v5. Who's blood is on who's head? What's the main focus of Paul as he builds his message up to, and through, Romans 9? Israel and their unbelief.
Romans 9:30-32 is key here.
J C
But still, we need to give them the gospel. don't think you think? The doctrine comes later after they being served
What a beautiful presentation of several "seemingly" contrary scriptures. I love it. P.V. retired Wesleyan Arminian pastor.
"It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines, that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are surely and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus." -Charles Spurgeon
Ditto and Amen to that 👍!!!
Spurgeon also proclaimed that Calvinism is simply historical orthodox Christianity. It is what the original Christians believed. Read what they wrote.
Arminianism, named after its "founder", Jacobus Arminius, did not come along until the 1500's. That's fifteen centuries after the Resurrection.
You can connect the dots theologically from Jesus, to Paul and other apostles, to the early Church fathers like Irenaeus, Ambrose (and a large number of others), to St. Augustine, St. Thomas Acquinas, Martin Luther, John Calvin, into the 1600's with John Owen, 1700's with Jonathan Edwards, then Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Meacham, Piper, Sproul, to the present.
There is no comparative All Star chain of theologians for Arminians.
And in my list I have left out many many other superstars of the Christian faith who would today be called Calvinists. Including all of the great OT guys.
@@musikhal23 Never heard of a Christian believer who suffered fatigue and tiredness over
sound Biblical teaching, especially that coming from one Charles Haddon Spurgeon. Spurgeon would have been the first to tell you that he was not infallible and certainly he and his contemporary Pope Pius IX did not see eye to eye on that much.
With that said, if you seriously want exegeted Bible quotes properly contexted, one of the really great sources is--wait for it--the sermons of--wait again--Charles Haddon Spurgeon. Some 3000 Spurgeon sermons survive. They are a wealth of sound Bible teaching. And remember that Spurgeon was a pulpit preacher, not a "full time" theologian like an Augustine or Calvin.
Growing up in the Arminian Oort Cloud, as a kid I was unaware of the Arminian/Augustinian (more accurate term than Calvinist) debate. My Arminian Baptist preacher quoted Spurgeon all the time in sermons but I still did not learn who he was until I became Reformed in my theology.
Anyway, regardless of Spurgeon's orientation, he is very Bible all the time. You can actually listen to his sermons on UA-cam read by more than one minister from Great Britain. You are welcome. God bless you.
@@martyroth2994 And neither did you or I. But we are commanded by the Great Commission to share the Word and Spurgeon does an enviable job of that as he faithfully adheres to the rightly divided Word of God.
I speak of Spurgeon in the present tense as his Christian witness continuously shines forth after more than a century. This is where you and I should long to be a century from now.
@@martyroth2994 Nobody, including Spurgeon, you, or I would equate Arminianism or Calvinism with the Word of God. Systematic theologies, however, do expound on the truths found in Holy Scripture. Same with Bible teaching and preaching.
One of the discoveries I made coming out of the Arminian cloud and into the daylight of Augustinianism (some call it Calvinism) is that Arminianism is nowhere to be found in the Bible while Reformed theology is seen on practically every page of Scripture.
Today's Protestant churches especially are wrestling wih the Arminian/Augustinian debate. The more I hear both sides debate the more I realize that much of the problem is not the spiritual blindness of Arminians so much as their lack of education, especially when it comes to exegeting scripture. I speak from experience having been in the Arminian camp.
Arminians bring a dose of humanism to interpreting the Bible. Again, I speak from experience.
And one of the real fatal issues with Arminianism is that it did not exist until the time of Jacobus Arminius who lived some fifteen centuries after the Resurrection of our Lord. Early church fathers, and such giants of theology as Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas do not speak of it.
Another issue with Arminianism is that there are folks who claim the name of Christ and are saved I believe, but who just cannot stomach the fact that the God of Creation would be that much in charge of His universe. They want God to "behave" according to their humanist inclinations. Hopefully, that is not your proclivity.
Btw, all of the verses you list are verses that support basic Reformed theology. Just learn exegesis, not eisegesis. Big difference.
Thank you Brother Laurie Thank you in Jesus Holy Name.
God knew who would and who will reject the gospel...that’s not the same as predetermined. God uses all for His glory nonetheless.
It sounds like you are saying that some men freely choose to crawl out of the pit of their sin on their own & then seek after God to choose Him. Yet that is totally refuted by the bible which tells us that we are DEAD in our trespasses, slaves to sin, that none of us are good or seek after God. It tells us that we must rely on the Father to draw us to Christ.
I think the predestination issue is being used by satan to divide the church. I see more hatred & animosity between true believers in Christ on this topic then any other. If you and I both rely on Jesus Christ for salvation by grace through faith then we should embrace each other & agree to disagree on how we both got there!
Welcome brother in Christ!
I used to believe that too, many years ago when I was an ignorant Christian, and did not understand God's Word in the Bible. The problem with that is it is not scriptural in the least. God 'Declares the end from the beginning, and the things not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure - Isaiah 46:10. In other words, it is God who has chosen the things that will happen upon His creation the Earth and the people in it, not man himself.
Once I started studying the Bible in earnest and the Spirit began showing me what the scriptures mean, the Bible unfolded before me and I began to have understanding, to rightly divide the word of truth [2 Timothy 2:15]. Some of the most powerful verses about predestination according to God's will in salvation are found in Ephesians 1. He knew our names before the foundation of the world and predestined us to salvation by His own will. Not our will, but His. Remember what God told Moses which Paul quotes in Romans 9:
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth - Romans 9:18
Romans 9:15-23 shows us clearly by who's will we are saved, and it is also clearly written it is not by our own will, for Romans 3:11 states there are none that seek after God. The word 'none' means 'no one.' Therefore none of us can be the exception to that. This is extremely powerful scripture and once a person begins to understand it is not by our own will but by God's mercy upon us that we are saved, we then realize it is not about us at all, but about the will of the Almighty God and Father of us all.
God IS wisdom and knowledge. He doesn't "know" a thing. HE is the progenitor of it. HE is the CREATOR of it. He is the PANTOKRATOR, the ALL-FATHER-CREATOR. To lower Him down to the level of someone who can "see the future" is to truly not understand God's PREEMINENCE.
@@nuclearsharkattack Absolutely. Isn't it truly amazing what God does to His chosen ones when he calls them into salvific faith? I have heard the "word of God" preached throughout my entire life in various "churches" with ZERO understanding of ANY OF IT. It wasn't until HE, HIM ALONE, opened my eyes and GAVE ME SUPERNATURAL UNDERSTANDING of the writings that seem SO OBVIOUS now as to the TRUTH of His WEDDING ARRANGEMENTS for His Son.
@@ClickToPreview The moment God decided to make man He decieded every single puny humans fate every movement of molecules and every moment and instance that has and will ever happen in mans or angels history. Everything comes from Him. He cannot possibly leanr anything from us, and He cannot possibly learn anything ABOUT us.
How many Calvinist does it take to change a lightbulb?
I don’t know, but it will NOT change itself...
loooooooooooooooool. This wins
It won't change itself, but God will give me the desire, by the new heart He has given me to change it for his Glory.
It only takes the specified amount as per the eternal decree of God. Next
@@randyomatta4302 no.
Beloved, I don't know you in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with a motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (GODSTIME MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348159811625) tell him I sent an you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you..................
The scriptures say people are ‘predestined’. I don’t get why this is such a hang up for people, just because you have a perception of choice does not mean God, who is all knowing and knows the future (because He transcends time and can exist in the past, future and the present simultaneously ) , wouldn’t know the outcome of your spirit or soul by judgement day. You are temporal. He is Eternal. He is all knowing. You don’t know everything, except maybe enough to have faith. Even if you and I are predestined, I didn’t know that when I was once an atheist, nor do I know the fate of anybody else for eternity; it’s too big for me to grasp, and so I believe and have faith, and you should too. You need faith to do the impossible (but possible only in Christ Jesus) of bridging the gap between the finite in the infinite, and you should choose to believe and have faith.
Despite not agreeing with you regarding "perception of choice" I do 100% agree with your last sentence
Read the verses that use the word predestined. They are never about a nonbeliever being predestined to be a believer. They are about the believer being predestined to conform to the image of the Son, or the believer being predestined for the redemption of our bodies.
@@jcthomas3408 "They are about a nonbeliever being predestined to be a believer. They are about the believer being predestined to conform to the image of the Son, or the believer being predestined for the redemption of his body."
Is there a case where a believer was not predestined to conform to the image of the Son? Is there a case where a believer is not predestined for the redemption of his body?
Once a person has accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior, he should be predestined to conform to the image of the Son. I have seen one or two cases where this statement is not true. Of course, the tares and the goats are inside the church. Judas Iscariot was such a person. I can understand that some people interpret the verse to be conformed to the image of the Son.
Every believer should be predestined for the redemption of his body. It is redundant for God to predestine every believer for the redemption of his body.
Charles Templeton was a Christian. Then, he became anti-Christian. Bart D. Ehrman was a Christian. Now, Bart D. Ehrman is an anti-Christian. Michael Shermer was a Christian. Now, Michael Shermer is an anti-Christian. Dan Barker was a Christian. Now, Dan Barker is an anti-Christian. 1 John 2:19. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." I find character flaws in these people. Would I be able to find character flaws in these people when they were Christians? I don’t know. Would I be able to find character flaws in Christians? Yes, I can. I am a Christian critic. If a person has character flaws, does it mean that he is not a Christian? I don’t know. Only God knows.
If the Bible is the word of God, a Christian should love it. A Calvinist holds a high view of the Scriptures. Some Christian preachers said, “The bible is one of the books of antiquity.” “The Bible is a collection of ancient writings. It is not applicable for today living.” I saw a Christian preacher spoke words without content. The atheists attack the Bible with confidence.
I am a Calvinist. I take all the bad Calvinist's beliefs out and keep all the good ones. The Calvinist's behavior and anti-Calvinist's behavior should be the same. I support all anti-Calvinists’ efforts to win all non-elect people to Christ. I reject all Calvinists with bad behavior. Bad Calvinists exist. If I know who they are, I would tell all people to avoid them at all costs. I have not met a bad Calvinist. I am probably blind to the Calvinist who behaves badly.
@@tomceman4451 I am just going by what the Bible says. I.e. Romans 8:29 says those that God already knows (believers) He predestines to be conformed into the image of his Son. If someone changes their path (rejects God after accepting Him) they would no longer be conforming to the image of His Son. Definitely not a Calvinistic view, but it is Biblical.
@@jcthomas3408 Romans 8:29 says those that God already knows (believers) He predestines to be conformed into the image of his Son.
No one will disagree with this statement. You have to put the time table on it to tie people's underwear in knots. When did God know the believers?
Ephesians 1:4. "For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence."
If Calvinism was true and God predestined us to love him, it wouldn't be actual love, it wouldn't glorify him and eventually it would turn God into the author of POINTLESS suffering. God decided that it is worth the suffering because this kind of creation is the only way to create creatures who would FREELY love him. Otherwise we would be nothing but robots in a sadistic show.
That's why Calvinism is blasphemy.
That's why Calvinism is blasphemy.
Well said! Calvinism is fatally wrong!
I used to believe in Calvinism and I honestly didn't grow to be more loving, graceful or merciful. I think I became more legalistic. I can easily identify a reformed church but now I'm so afraid to find a church I can be with outside the Calvinistic teachings. I don't believe in speaking in tongues so I don't want to go pentecostal churches. Are traditional independent baptist church non Calvinist? Or most evangelicals?
well speaking in tongues is real because the Bible says so but churches who speak in tongues all the time with no interpretations are doing it wrong. U don’t have to know how to speak in tongues to be saved it’s one of the spiritual gifts. I would recommend a Calvary church because they are usually non-denominational and I agree with u that Calvinism is a false teaching because Gods will is that none should perish but that all should come to repentance
@Micah Burns yes I'm already following him and listening to him. Thanks dear
@@ciara78624 I wouldn't call Calvinism false. I think an extreme version of any belief is too much. I would say it's OK to be a soft Calvinist, meaning it could be true that we are predestined but we don't know who is in or out, so we must practice discipline and spread the gospel. The Shepherd is always testing his sheep 🐑
@@stevec9095 Um, if you label yourself anything other than a Christian, you’re already on the wrong path.
When God looks at a Christian/unbeliever, he’ll look at them as one of those two, not Calvinist or Arminianist.
Christians today get too caught up in the, “early church fathers” where they begin to mention John Calvin and Augustine even more than the men who wrote you your inspired word.
A soft Calvinist is none the less a Calvinist, and God doesn’t even look at you as such on a spiritual level; why even waste your time
@@ciara78624 what you said is incorrect. Speaking in tongues does not always require an interpreter.
The Speaking in tongues you are referencing that requires an interpreter is the operation of the GIFT of tongues and the GIFT of interpretation. Not everyone has this GIFT.
The other tongues that require no interpretation are tongues that are available to every believer to use in prayer. Praying in tongues is for every believer.
This tongue is given to every believer who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit, which is a SEPARATE event from the born-again salvation experience.
The Born again salvation experience is when God regenerates your spirit to come into relationship with Him through His Spirit. This is reconciliation as a result of redemption.
Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is empowerment for ministry. Baptism with the Holy Spirit activates specific gifts that have distributed to you by the Holy Spirit.
Word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophecy, etc. The initial evidence of baptism with the Holy Spirit is speaking in an unknown tongue.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit and the distribution and operation of tongues is for every believer. This is NOT the GIFT of tongues, this is a personal prayer language operated by the Holy Spirit through your spirit.
There are many who confuse the two events and argue that they are the same. If they were the same event you would be able to operate in gifts of the Spirit and speak in tongues when you became born again, but we do not see this as a reality.
Those that argue that they are the same event do not function in any of the gifts of the Spirit nor do they speak in tongues, and they confuse the GIFT of tongues with one's personal prayer language.
The bible is clear that we can and should pray in tongues and pray for a personal interpretation.
The Gift of tongues is a completely separate manifestation of a Gift. The Gift of tongues functions during a christian assembly and instead of one speaking TO God in an unknown tongue, God is speaking TO His people and then Interpreting what has been spoken through a different believer who has the GIFT of interpretation of tongues.
The prayer language is going up to God, the Gift is coming down from God.
In proverbs it says He even created the wicked for the day of trouble, what do you think?
Creating people he knows will do wicked is not the same as creating people to do wicked.
Read Romans 9 and tell me what you think. God says He hates the wicked in the Psalms. Whomever gets saved is saved by God's grace alone.
@@thomashart3487 Pharaoh’s heart was purposefully hardened by the Will & purpose of God. What is your stance on this? This clearly speaks of double predestination.
(Romans 9:15-23)
“For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then *it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.* 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then *he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.*
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-“
10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “they may indeed see but not perceive,and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.”
Mark 4:10-12 | ESV
Why did Jesus speak in parables?
Hint: vs12
Read further down in Mark. He taught them as much as they CD understand.
This man is full of God's wisdom. Adrian Rogers has a longer sermon on free will. Dr McGee also has a good one. Regards and God bless you all.
DL Moody was an Arminianist but he taught against focusing on prophecy. Spurgeon stated that the Gospel is Calvinism and Calvinism is the Gospel.
Ah yes, the classic old “addressing the topic, without actually addressing the topic” routine
Just because he picks the Bible over your theology does not mean the issue wasn't addressed. It means he rejected a teaching of man by what the Bible directly has to say about it.
@@kierstencreates958 yoiu dont know the bible. commenter is right cuz this pseudo pastor knows he is wrong and uses the worlds methods of not offending anybody to add to his mega church numbers
@@uncasunga1800 you can say I don't know the Bible, but I read it every single day. I'm almost through the entire thing. That is the fact, which makes your opinion wrong. And ask yourself, do you read it daily? Have you finished it or are you almost through with it yourself? Have you studied and analyzed it in context? Or do you just allow people to "teach" you? Don't tell me I don't know something I'm familiar with on a daily basis. & even when you do, you're wrong, which is what you're accusing of Greg Laurie. So maybe you should look inward instead of throwing accusations at other people friend.
@@uncasunga1800 the Bible directly says that God desires that all men would come to repentance. Sadly not everyone has or will. But that is clearly God's heart for people in scripture, no matter what any contradictory doctrine has to say about it. "Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?" -Ezekiel 33:11
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." -2nd Peter 3:9
then allow me to propose a real challenge to Calvinism: the philosophical implications of predestination vs love. Being a Christian doesn't just mean you believe in God (we all know demons believe), but that you Love God. Love Him enough to follow Him. If you believe that God chooses who follows Him, and that we have no choice, you're saying that I have no choice in loving God. Love without choice is a logical contradiction, it can't be real. Try and think of an example in which forced love is genuine towards the one forcing you. If you are to genuinely love someone you must have the choice to not love them for it to be real. So how do you reconcile the idea that we never had a choice in becoming followers of God but also genuinely love God? Either we have freewill and choose to love God, or we don't have freewill and our love is false.
Amen! Hallelujah! God is not willing that any should parrish but that all come to repentance. Jesus tasted death for every man. Years ago a Calvinist believer gave me a TULIP tract. I didn't know anything about Calvinism. God's Spirit raised the red flag for me when I read, "Christ died to save 'certain' sinners!"
Yes, 'certain' sinners. Namely: repentant sinners.
Sinners whom never would have had the notion to repent had they not been made conscious of their sin by conviction, after recognizing they had been elected to follow Christ.
@@JerynToney My point was to imply Christ died for all sinners. He is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance. In light of the scriptures literally, I'm in full agreement with Greg Laurie on this.
What I meant to imply was that Christ died for all sinners. As it is written God is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance. He tasted death for every man. In light of the scriptures literally, I agree with Greg Laurie completely on this.
@@hbarwickjr He cherry picked 316, but neglected to draw attention to 317 which tells us Christ did not come to judge. If he did not come to judge, salvation was not the purpose of the crucifixion. Atonement was. That atonement was limited to 'whomesoever believed', and only those elected would believe, because man is totally depraved, as easily pointed out by various scriptures.
John 318 explains that judgement has already been passed, which means predestination.
John 316 doesn't mean anything on its own until it is illuminated by it's context, no matter how many bumpers it gets stuck to.
You have not chosen me, I’ve chosen you
Jesus choosing the apostles from the disciples
He wasn’t choosing who is saved and who is condemned
Clavinism sucks
True, But CALvinism is wonderful.
@@rawbingham There is nothing wonderful about Calvinism. Read The Institutes of the Christian Religion Book Three. There must be free will.
@@walnoemispoyt5604 I reply. But my experience is it would get nasty when you read returned the reply.
@@rawbingham So you are rejecting Calvinism?
@@walnoemispoyt5604 sorry. I wrote that in a hurry while waiting for an appointment. No, Christianity IS inherently Calvinism and intellectualizing over dogma is… evil. Thinking that we need to make free will “work” is idolatry. We don’t have original thoughts. Nor do we have original “will.” It (will) is either from God or, by golly, the opposite.
It's a logical contradiction to say God predestined who would be saved before we were born and add later that we had a choice in the matter.
Man’s finite logic can’t fully reconcile the mind of God. He’s not at all like us limited, unholy sinners. It must therefore be both realities at work. How does work ? Don’t know. I can see His Will, His mercy and grace and my sin as I fall on my knees at the cross.
Predestination and mans responsibility are both taught in scripture. You can't throw out one teaching and keep the other.
@@45Nasman logic comes from the mind of God. He has made us in a way that we can understand His logic and worship (love) Him with our minds. He is not the author of confusion. If our thoughts on His character or actions violate sound logical truth we can be sure we have something wrong with our thinking.
@@sandramerimee6957 you are correct that they are both taught in scripture. But to understand those terms in a way that makes them completely contradictory is just lazy. We must first assume that God doesn't contradict Himself. We must not think that God predetermined some people to sin, without any ability to refrain from doing so, but also acknowledge that the Bible teaches that God doesn't even tempt man to sin. Both cannot be true.
God is sovereign over all things, or he is not God at all. Or at best he is a puny God.
Man is responsible for all his choices and decisions in life.
God has given man the ability to make choices, in that since we are free, even in our fallen state. We are not robots. So we have a will that makes choices. BUT God is infinitely more free, and if God chooses to interfere, or interrupt, or meddle with the will of man, he is free to do so. Lots of examples in scripture. The conversion of Saul the Pharisee is perhaps the best. Saul, known as Paul, he was on a a mission to destroy Christianity and Christians. That is the devil’s will, and that was Paul’s will. But Gods will smashed Paul’s free will and in an instant Paul is a Jesus follower, no longer a Jesus persecutor.
God’s sovereign will trumps man’s will.
once again, God is sovereign and man is responsible
If you pray for a sick person to be positively healed, rather than for God to make it possible for them to be healed, then you are already more Calvinist that you may know.
I reviewed this video and posted it this morning (11/07/2022). May God bless you as you search His word for truth!
Amen! I train pastors in the country of Haiti. I say the same thing...nobody will ever reconcile the two. We can believe things we do not understand...but the main thing is preach the gospel!
I agree. He should not however try to destroy biblical doctrine’s
How can you teach a Gospel that you do not understand ..?
Scripture warns about "presenting another Gospel"
If you know NOT what is correct ..then why risk the possibility that YOU could be teaching "another" Gospel ..?
Why risk being "accursed" on your ignorance
Thank you for this it was a big help. I was wondering why we would have to preach the gospel and be fishermen of men if God's already chosen who he wants anyway.
yep that's also my question hehe the Gospel was became a tail
I would say he knows but we dont. And since the wheat grows with the tares. You preach to everybody. And in the end we will be seperated. Remember the tares were seen before the end. They were known but allowed to stay till the end
Because we don't know who he has chosen and we never will, and God uses us in bringing people to saving faith. What a marvelous privilege! Also, not sure how much clearer the Apostle Paul could be with "No one seeks after God. Not even one." Praise God that he doesn't wait for people to understand Salvation is of the Lord before giving them saving faith ("For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.") But oh boy how beautiful it is when someone comes to fully understand they were dead in their sins and would have stayed dead if it weren't for God intervening. "No one comes to me unless the Father drags him." "Drags" is the best English translation for the Greek word used. Maybe we need yet a new translation of the Bible. ;)
We preach because to everyone because we do not know who is chosen.
Thanks, Pastor Gregg for your answer to the question regarding Calvinism. The Scriptures do teach that men are dead in trespasses and sin. A dead man can't believe or for that matter do anything. Why then does the call go out to believe in Christ? It is because those who are given life by the Holy Spirit are enabled to believe. Regeneration precedes faith. We were all on the road to hell but God in His sovereign grace chose to save some but not all. You quote God is not willing that any should perish but why then do some perish? It's not that God's will is impotent. The context is not talking about all mankind but any of us, those who are His by grace. II Pet 3:9 cf. II Tim. 2:25
Let me suggest reading John Gill's work "The Cause of God and Truth"
hope this helps,
Pastor Nichiolas
Some take the part of Jesus talking to His disciples totally out of context. God specifically chose them as apostles for a specific purpose. It is NOT about whether people are individually chosen for salvation or hell.
Deborah Ruth Trotter, Calvinism is evil because it is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies... But 'Election and predestination' is indeed Biblical, and God predestined some to be saved....and some to be cast to hell.... Jesus was indeed sent by the father Only for the Elect.....
@@reynaldodavid4755 you clearly have no idea what calvinsim is becuase you went on to describe its outcome hahahahahha
@@reynaldodavid4755 you are not old enough to drink in america are you hahaha
@@uncasunga1800, Sorry, I never been in America, and I never desire to go there...
@@uncasunga1800, Really ??? So explain to me what do you know about Calvinism....
Proverbs 3:5&6
Acts 1:8
Psalms 130 . Rocks
Every word of God is for loving us to Himself.
He asked kids to come talk to him and befriend
Him .
Jesus never complicated
HIS Love .
He wants us to draw from Him . To get refreshed.
I am thankful for Greg
Laurie . I am thankful that he denounces Calvinism .
Jesus said - get up and walk to the man by the pool. .-
And don’t be defeated by the Pharisees and
The peddlers of the gospel .
Jesus did overthrow the peddlers . Jesus said - be wise as serpents & harmless as
Doves .
His gospel at the end lacks repentance (Acts 2) - perhaps though it was cut off the video?
Most of these smaller clips are from bigger sermons. So far, there is not a single sermon he has posted where he did not end with inviting people to make a commitment to Jesus and give them a call to repentance.
Do you have any commentary recommendations that are similar to God's Word for you series or Christ Centered Exposition Commentary series that's not from a reformed influence?
Amen! Thank you pastor Greg. Listening to this theology today from a popular Calvinist bible teacher made me so upset and I was saying the same things you did God os not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL Would be saved.
Read the verse again....
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that (any should perish,) but that (all) should reach repentance.
2 Peter 3:9 ESV
Question: who is the (any) that God is not wishing to perish? Is it every human being in the world? Or the elect?
Who is the (all) in the verse? Is it all people in the world or all the elect?
If the Lord is not will that any should perish and that all come to repentance mens every person on the planet … what is stopping HIS WILL from being accomplished? In light of an abundance of other scripture & also common sense … it clearly is speaking of God’s elect. None of the elect to perish and that all of the elect should come to repentance. Some of them have not even been born yet?
@@redeemedadventures exactly
@@datchet11 Your argument doesn't make any sense, because, there is no reason for the NOT WISHING, because if They are already the elect, they are going to be saved according to calvinism, there is no reason to wish, or not wish something, if it's already determined.
@@denilson17music if God is wishing to save all people but not able to then it questions his sovereignty, and if Jesus died for all people but some perish he failed and his blood was shed in vain.
My greatest fear with the doctrine of Free will is that it somehow seems to give glory to men, for their so called "Response" to accepting Christ. It undoubtedly limits God within time. He is outside of time. The Gift of salvation is irresistible... The blood is significantly stronger than my feelings or emotions. "He who has ears, Let him hear".....leaves me wondering who gives ears to men.
God deceidd evrythiong about man the moment He deceided there would be man. He just didnt tell us so now you have every cult wackjob human glorifying satan beiever claiming they have this made up free will when our will is CLEARLY enslaved.
you dont need the bible to know that you just need honest common sense when facing yourself. The bible just explains obvious reality that weve bbeen blinded to.
God could never be taught anything. Not about you not from you
There is nothing to fear about the doctrine of free will. The fear only happens because Calvinists over-complicate the bible. Humans have free will because we are made in the image of God. Perhaps it will help you to think that we have an image of free will.
When we talk about free will we are talking about having the ability to choose otherwise to be able to make moral choices and to be moral by following Jesus Christ.
God is not limited because God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and compassion on whom he will have compassion. God is freely choosing to wait for his people to choose to follow him. God will act when he wants to act.
God before the foundations of the world did not predetermine some people to be dammed and others to be saved.
Pastor Laurie, would love to hear your exegesis of Romans 8:30, Romans 9, John 17, Ephesians 1:3-14, Galatians 1:15, just to name a few.
Jordan Montgomery 😂😂😂
Amen
Would love to hear your exegesis on Acts 7:51
@@Mark-oo3om resisting the Holy Ghost was done by rejecting the message Stephen was preaching as the Holy Ghost was working through him. They weren't resisting some previenient grace by which they may be saved.
By the way I don't agree with all the teachings in Calvinism. But I do affirm 3 of them as being foundational to the Gospel of Christ (Total Depravity, Unconditional Election and Perseverance of the Saints).
@@jasonharkness2992,
Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies....It is more
dangerous than Lies alone....
For instance the the Statement below which is the base of Calvinism is
evil, because it contradicts the Character of God and Cannot be
Supported by the Scriptures.....
''God arranges all things by His sovereign counsel,
in such a way that individuals are born, who are
doomed from the womb to certain death, and are
to glorify Him by their destruction.''
If evangelizing could truly save someone, doesn't that put a HUGE amount of responsibility on the person evangelizing? I mean, what if you don't say the EXACT right thing to make the person believe? Will the evangelist be held responsible for not saving that person? Will you sit in Heaven wondering if you did everything right? No, I don't think so. God saves you. No one else. We are instructed to evangelize, not to save people, but to express the love we have for Him.
I know he didn't fully answer the question - but I still love his answer!
I have been struggling a lot with calvinism lately - I just can't accept it, specifically the predestination to Heaven/Hell.
Greg gave some great points why predestination to Heaven/Hell just doesn't work! Really helpful thanks!
Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed WHO LONG AGO WERE DESIGNATED FOR THIS CONDEMNATION, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
[Jude 3-4].
Need more Scriptural proof that God has "long ago designated" the wicked for condemnation?
Your main problem, of course, is that you don't know how to biblically define "human libertarian free will"; in fact, no synergist does (even many Reformed/Calvinists unfortunately do not either).
Questions?
Let me know.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
God doesnt owe you or any puny human anything. Especially when you cannot accept Him becuase you are obsessed with yourself. Good luck forcing yourself on Him.
Lymer ignore the hateful Calvinistic comments. People do have free will and the choice to reject God and His Word.
Ryan Gallmeier they were not chosen to go to hell, but in context, God knows beforehand who believes and who doesn’t believe. Those who choose to reject Jesus Christ have brought condemnation on themeselves
Ryan Gallmeier context is important. How many times does God say He wants no one to perish but have everlasting life? Jesus says in John 3 that people are already condemned because of their unbelief in Him.
“Those whom he called he also predestined”, how can you reject that God predestines people’s eternal destination
So True
@@michaeltorah4002 God foreknows some people to be dammed. With the term predestination there is an aspect of causation hence why we use the term "cause and effect".
If you are using the English bible of course you are going to be misled but the Koine Greek understanding is not what you are thinking but what I am saying.
Humanity has free will.
It sounds nice but 2:42 simply isn’t enough time to fully refute the error of Calvinism. You need at least 3 more minutes.
For him to quote Spurgeon is laughable since Spurgeon was clearly a Calvinist and unashamedly so and Greg clearly is not!!!
Both Calvinists and non Calvinists claim Spurgeon.
He misquoted Spurgeon. The quote from Spurgeon is on sovereignty and responsibility. Similar but different.
DLR 1 if you think Spurgeon was an inconsistent Calvinist you have obviously never read any of his work.
Classical reformed theology doesn't assert that God doesn't love all. Thats a common misunderstanding of Calvinism, many times by those who claim to be calvinists. Now, it's not the same love that is extended to the children of God but yes, he loves them. (Psalm 145:8-9, 15-16; Matt.5:44-45; Mark 10:21)
Dennis Parsons you have no credibility whatsoever, I don’t believe you have read what you claim, if you did you obviously paid no attention at all to what was said. You are blinded by willful ignorance.
It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus. By this truth I make my pilgrimage into the past, and as I go, I see father after father, confessor after confessor, martyr after martyr, standing up to shake hands with me . . . Taking these things to be the standard of my faith, I see the land of the ancients peopled with my brethren; I behold multitudes who confess the same as I do, and acknowledge that this is the religion of God's own church. (Spurgeon's Sovereign Grace Sermons, Still Waters Revival Books, p. 170).
These are only 2 of many quotes by Spurgeon himself. Next time you decide to respond to something, please do your homework!!!
I have my own opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing unchangeable eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross. (Charles Spurgeon, The New Park Street Pulpit, Vol. 1, 1856).
One verse shoots Calvinism down: John 3:16! Whosoever will! Everyone is a whosoever!
Thanks for speaking the truth!!!
Correct. But this does not mean that “whosoever” was not regenerate and called by God first. This only describes the action by the individual who is called.
If Jesus was already prepared before the foundation of the earth, and Jesus was manifested to save us from sin, [1Peter1:19,20] how was God expecting Adam and Eve not to sin?
1:40 is called hyper Calvinism and it’s unbiblical
Yes it is not what Calvinist teach nor even the people who actually teach total depravity.
Calvanists are haters..if they don't see you as a calvanist they cut off relationshup with you. They judge your spirituality and count themselves above everyone else and look down on you. It's a cult
@@tristen7085 wow, I’m so sorry you’ve met Calvinist who’ve made you feel this way, certainly it was the opposite for me. Nonetheless I’d ask you to read thickly into the doctrines of grace outside these sentiments and ask yourself if it’s biblical, which should be your priority, holding to biblical views regardless of your interaction with flawed humans just like me and you.
Again, sorry you feel that way :(
God bless you
It's been my experience by my son inlaw and my daughter. He is afraid of spiritual gifts, holy spirit all freedom in the spirit. His whole family have cut us off.
I like this message, but I'm a little confused. If some people weren't elected, then what about the people who who have never even heard of Christianity? Wouldn't that mean he chose those people to never receive the Gospel? Can someone explain this to me? I'm truly confused.
None of the verses Greg read mentioned anything about free will.
You know what I find interesting is that Greg Laurie had John MacArthur preach at his church before. John MacArthur is of the Calvinists camp. The video is called John MacArthur the value of Gods word.
gota present the truth even to deceived megachurch cult members
Maybe that was long time back when this person wasnt much aware of MacArthur.
These are not Major doctrines and the belief in such is not a requirement for our salvation. These should not cause division among Christians. They both know that they are Christians regardless of their view of Calvinism.
Yea he used to preach at a lot of Calvary chapels, and was a good friend of Chick smith until after Chuck died he slandered him, saying he and his church that started the Jesus movement are the reason for all the hyper charismatic and false teachers today. Why? Because he tore out the carpet from his church to allow hippies in. The audacity!
I love how he quotes Spurgeon showing that he has no idea about Spurgeon's theology. Lol
Even Calvinist can’t get it wrong 100% of time when they’re speaking from the Bible. Spurgeon did say some good things from the Bible just got his 🌷 wrong
Love how people who quote and idolize men dont stick to hermeneutics
It’s even worse than not knowing Spurgeon’s theology, his is making a false attribution to Spurgeon in order to sway would be Calvinists or those curious about the doctrine away because they admire spurgeon. And if even he wasn’t sure, neither should they.
He’s deceiving. Intentionally.
Also his job is to preach the whole counsel, not just “repent and be saved”. The hard truths are left out of the pulpit and the sheep are left to wonder and weary stressing about things he ought to be teaching them.
History provides much in the way of historic sound and orthodox Protestant theology. Consider the Westminster Confession of Faith after all.
@@CultureDweeb there is no such thing as 'would be calvinsits' lol
you not too bright either huh...
Uncas Unga oh I’m not? You didn’t even understand my comment. The point is that Spurgeon’s Calvinism is being kept untold in order to use his teachings only where it’s fitting. Christians under this teaching might actually embrace the biblical doctrine of Calvinism if they were lead by the leaders they trust.
But this “leaders” earn no right to be trusted by their suppression of truth and divisiveness from historical Protestant doctrine.
Ever one is destined for hell only by the Grace of God not every one will in up there.
Predestined for what? I cannot find a single verse where someone is predestined for salvation. I found Predestined to be conformed to Jesus. Also, Predestined to get a new body. But not Predestined to be saved. Does anyone have a verse?
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.”
Ephesians 1:3-14 NASB1995
Thank you, pastor. Thank you.
Sounds like someone doesn't really understand the difference between the doctrines of Grace and Hyper Calvinism
God doesn't need any of us to help him in salvation,He let's us be part of it by bringing His Gospel to the world.Some plant and some water,but IT'S GOD WHO GIVES THE INCREASE.If Arminianism were true the verse would read,SOME plant and some water,but it's God who GETS the increase.
God doesmt revolve around us! You have to be willfully ignorant to believe anything like that!
@@CBALLEN He made humans and the world for His own glory from befor e time.
He is not affected by us at all He is immutable His heart is for us from the start or not. Those people have their reward.
@@uncasunga1800 I agree.
Is irrisistable grace hyper Calvinism?
Because that's BS.
I was saved by the ministry and preaching of Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel. I thank God for that man and i thank God for Greg Laurie for both helped me grow in my faith. I spent over 20 years at Costa Mesa under the teachings of Chuck Smith and i will always consider those times precious to me. Years after my theology changed to Calvinism but I continued going to Calvary because I loved the teachings of Chuck although I really didn't like the picture he painted of Calvinists I believe it was inaccurate. But for a long time I believed it because Chuck said it until i studied in depth the doctrine of salvation (soteriology) from both camps and the Holy Spirit led me to believe the reformed view though there was no need for me to condemn any of my brothers who viewed it differently nor there was a need to leave calvary yet. Whoever is save by grace through fait in Jesus apart from works i consider my brother and sister in the Lord. I would suggest that before you believe what any person says about any side, you go and study it for yourself and be convicted by the Holy Spirit where you should stand so He can use you. I hear it all the time in their program "Pastor's Perspective", they continue painting an ugly picture of Calvinism. Before you swallow all that Greg says in this sermon get the whole picture, study to show your self approve, read, pray and above all love one another so that the world may see who our Lord is.
Transliteration of vernacular of translations presents the problem. "For whom He foreknew, he predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son...." (Not to be Saved) Great explanation by Greg.
Being conformed into the image of Jesus is the work of the Holy Spirit indwelling. If one has this then they're saved. So that verse proves we are predestined to be saved
@@michaeltorah4002, EXACTLY! Thank you!!
This guy doesn't understand Calvinism. He misrepresented it.
Calvinism teaches that we are predestined to Heaven/Hell - do you disagree? If so, please show me how, as if calvinism doesn't say that, then I might be all for it! :D
@@beelzzebub Read Paul's letter to the Romans carefully. If you don't believe Paul's writings, then you don't believe John's writings, which means you don't believe Jesus' DIRECT teachings to both of them and now you have a SERIOUS problem. Calvin is wrong here and there, NO DOUBT, unless you want to claim that he was taught directly by Jesus, as were John AND Paul. But to deny Paul's writings is to deny what Jesus taught him DIRECTLY, and if you believe that Jesus is the WORD then you will have a serious reconciliation problem if you decide to disregard Paul's writings. Calvin was indeed preaching his understanding of the crux of Jesus' teaching to Paul regarding predestination, and the Potter's (God the Father's) sovereignty over the clay to MAKE some vessels for honor, and some for dishonor. These are Jesus' teachings TO Paul. If you deny these teachings to Paul BY Jesus, you are denying that Jesus is THE WORD OF GOD. Tread carefully. This argument isn't about "Calvinism". It is about PAUL'S TESTIMONY of what JESUS TAUGHT HIM.
ClickToPreview you are going very deep into this, but my question was simple. Are we predestined to heaven/hell by God’s choice for our lives?
I would say no, and that an answer of ‘yes’ makes us puppets of an unloving God - (but I believe God is loving and gives ALL people a chance but forces it on NOBODY)
If you understand Calvinism then your mind has been turned to mush.
Lymer he, like most Calvinists, is unable to answer a simple question.
The biggest issue in this area is not rightly defining/understanding what free will actually is.
What is 'Free Will', rightly defined?
It is the ability to choose according to ones strongest desire/inclination at any given moment, with the choices that are available to them.
So you did what you did at that moment because that was your strongest desire in that moment with the known options you had available to you. No one actually ever does something that they don't want to do in a situation where they have more than one option to choose from. Now, you might say, "But I have had experiences where I was 'forced' to do something that I didn't want to do." But the fact is, in that moment, you were still choosing according to your strongest desire. That thing you were 'forced' to do, should really be understood as: all things being equal, I would have not chosen to be limited to the choices that were given to me or I would not have chosen to be in the circumstances/situation I was put in.
Lets say a cop is attempting to pull you over and so you were 'forced' to pull over, but you were not actually forced to pull over, you still chose according to your strongest desire, your desire for obeying the officer was stronger than your desire to resist and therefore, you stopped.
It is amazing how this concept is so incredibly misunderstood and abused, especially in the Christian/Evangelical world. Many believe that if you hold to the position that you can't choose God unless He has chosen you, then that violates free will and makes you into some kind of robot, the thing is, that does not violate free will. That position actually has very little to do with free will, it has to do with your desires ultimately; the reason you can't choose God unless He has chosen you is because unless God acts and makes you spiritually alive, you would never have the necessary/sufficient type of desire to choose and obey Him savingly. God affecting/changing one's desire does not do anything to your ability of free will, if God changes your desire(s), you are still acting/choosing in perfect accordance with free will as previously defined, you are still choosing according to your strongest desire.
You want free will? 1 Kings chapter 9. Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekial. And the consequences of it. They were told, they chose to rebel. We are also told, no difference.
Very well said..
Another thing I find is that people tend to think free will means we can do WHATEVER we want. Which in fact, our free will has its limitations. For example (exaggeration added to prove a point); we may wish to fly like the birds do but irregardless of our willingness to do so it is just not possible. Our Free Will is limited by our nature.. we also tend to forget that although God allowed us to have free will, it does not render the will of God moot..
There is the Will of Man
And the Will of God.
Regardless of how much we kick and scream for our right to exercise our free will, God’s will shall always be SOVEREIGN..
.
I always have remind myself that God does not owe me any answers, nor does He owe me any favors YET he sent his son to die for me due to the fact that I used my free will to rebel against the One who gave it..
If we define free will as a neutral will where we can choose otherwise, it does not square with the Bible.
If we define free will as we are free to do and decide according to nature, that's square with the Bible.
This is arguably the most concise and yet BEST articulation I've heard on this entire matter. I wish some would be more careful on this topic so as not to leave people thinking incorrect thoughts about God, like Job's friends did.
Thank you, sir. Much respect.
Great lesson Greg! Thank you!
"I reject Calvinism!" * quotes Spurgeon *
And Moody 💁♂️
🤣
Haha 😄
🤣🤣🤣
He rejected "Double Predestination", not Calvinism.
John 3:16 "pas ho pisteuo" = "all the believing ones"
That's the root, yes, πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων, but it is "pas ho pisteuon" transliterated from the manuscripts. Soli Deo Gloria.
Can you provide the source for that. As Strongs does not reflect that interpretation
Love pastor Greg Laurie.
the BIBLE is a book (containing many other books, for those who want to get technical) containing the Word of God. It comforts us and teaches us about God's Love and sovereignty ...it is also a book with many many warnings.... that we can be blotted out of the Book of Life....we must therefore be faithful till the end. Thus why would a Calvinist want, own or even need to read a Bible if he has already been Elected for Glory......do not be fooled, we need God every hour so "watch and wait lest ye fall into temptation". Jesus died for all so no one has an excuse at judgement day.
For the calvinist, the only good news is that they are among the elect .. and if they are not among the elect, Jesus' death on the cross is not good news at all, it does not affect them in any way whatsoever .. To embrace Calvinism is to absolutely obliterate the gospel of Jesus Christ
Totally agree! We must really dig deep to see the fallacy of it
But how do you know if you’re elect? If you aren’t saved yet, I have good new: you might be elect!!
If done correctly, Calvinism doesn’t ruin the gospel because it doesn’t actually contradict choice. According to my understanding of Calvinism, anyone can turn to God at any time if they so choose. From human perspectives, this is completely unaffected, even though God planned it. Just because God predestined it, doesn’t mean our choice has been hindered, because we don’t know what God predestined yet.
Would you be willing to do a zoom discussion to discuss your stance on Arminianism and the alternative?
Well said Pastor Greg
The church has long been distracted by one man’s systematic theology (Calvin’s Institutes) that too many neglect THE Book it seeks to systematize!
There are verses that seem to support both views. So, which is it?
I think you have to go with the passages proclaiming that Gods power is supreme and absolute - that he is omniscient and omnipotent, and then ponder if lesser states of being (like free will) are compatible with those supreme and dominant powers that God possesses.
@@brainchopper Thank you and very good thoughts and words and I agree. I do have a friend who is Arminian and he always says that within God's sovereignty He allowed free will. He says Calvinism cannot require moral transformation and that under Calvinism is doctrine over relationship.
@@andyheller2691 Nothing exists that an all power and all knowing supreme being is not responsible for, nothing exists that he did not create, and nothing happens that he does not want to happen. If you want to start fireworks in any Christian discussion, then make a statement like " God is the creator evil" If they say "No God did not create evil" then you have to ask them "does evil exist?" If they say "evil exists but God did not cause or create it" then you can ask them again "is god the creator of all existent things". If they continue to say "evil exists but god did not create it" then you have to posit the statement " so you say something exists outside of Gods creation, if we can find one thing that god did not create then there is the possibility that other things exist that God did not create either". As uncomfortable as it is for some to acknowledge, an all powerful creator being is responsible for everything, and all that transpires in his presence is about fulfilling his purpose. His power over "all" is sovereign and total. Gods "will" for gods own purpose, god needs nothing from us, he is already complete in all ways........John Brain
@@brainchopper Thank you and very good words. I wrote these thoughts down. I'm having to challenge what I learned several years ago and it's not easy. I've struggled with it and even let a few people down because I'm not agreeing anymore with what I was taught. It's been not easy on many levels but I want the truth, God's truth.
@@andyheller2691 One of the best things I ever heard many years ago - about who was a likely example of someone heading towards a good end. The following was a comment that went as follows " Good deeds do not make a man good, but a good man ( a blessed man) does good deeds" So what we do then is just be our good natural selves. Say to ourselves "yes I think I am a good person, and I just naturally want to continue being a good friend and neighbor to others....I want to be the kind of person that others look up to ..... and I think this is the real me, walking down a path set out for me as part of a greater purpose, I will continue to be the good person that I am, because that is what I am". Cheers.
Man's will is free?? Man's will is fallen and bound in sin like the rest of his nature.
Dead on
"Free" as in choice...complete difference in the context of the use of the word here. Choice IS Biblical. Deuteronomy 30:19- "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live"
I feel that was a serious reach and really twisting Greg's use of the word "free" to try to support your own conclusion. He clearly wasn't saying what you said.
Mark Rogers Yes, man can not save himself only Christ Jesus can save them, yet God does not make us to be robots either. There are so many examples in God’s Word to those who have chosen Him or rejected Him. God sends the person to hell if that person chose to reject God and His grace. God did not make that person choose, they chose it on their own. Therefore, our Creator has given us a free will to choose or reject God. It’s completely Biblical and not part of works
@@kierstencreates958 amen, and so many Calvinists deny our free will to choose.. You have found the perfect verse 😇
What true calvinist has ever said they don’t want to share the gospel because it will give false assurance to the non elect? If anyone claims this then they don’t have a clear understanding of calvinism.
With all of the writing done on reformed theology it amazes me how few understand what Calvinism teaches. The traditions and presuppositions are always the same from the Arminian view point
@@TinkerPrepper we know VERY well what calcal teaches
@@JasonWeaver-qx5nx Why do you ArmArm's explain it it incorrectly EVERY time?
Can you tell someone that Christ died for them was buried, and rose from the dead, as a Calvinist knowing you believe most are predestined for hell??
@@tsapp2831 My statement to anyone is, if you trust in the saving work of Christ on the cross for your sinful acts to be washed away because of His sacrifice, then you will be saved. If you trust in your own works to get to heaven, you will be lost and cast into hell
The Almighty answered this age-old argument in the complete chapter of Ezekiel 18. Let's be of one mind in Jesus, my friends. God bless.
So how do you explain? Ephesian 1:4 That God chose some before the foundation of the world …
Such a breath of fresh air to hear Pastor Laurie speak up on this.
Im a bit confused now. I thought I did believe in the Calvinism doctrine. I Do Not believe some are predestined to hell and some to Heaven. However I do believe we are so depraved that we can’t even come to God unless he puts it in our hearts to do so. So is Calvinism biblical or not Greg? Help me out here.
I consider myself a Calvinist, so I will help you out. You don't have to adhere to all 5 points of calvinism as a lot of people don't. Some people are 4 pointers, others 3, others 2 etc. I myself am a 4 point Calvinist with the only doctrine I reject is limited atonement. People have a freewill and yet God is sovereign and nothing is outside his plan (including who gets saved). It is a mystery that we won't resolve with our finite brains as there are verses that clearly state God predestines people (see Ephesians 1:1-11) yet it says he desires all to come to repentance (see 1 Timothy 2:4). I would say Calvinism is pretty Biblical.
Michael Bryant Thanks Michael for your comment. :)
Whosoever will is stated and also He desires all to come to repentance so I don't see anyone destined to hell. I see that in this world even all that happens isn't God's will. So those who reject Christ do so outside His will. At the same time He chooses and wills all to be saved but that doesn't always happen. I don't believe it was God's will for Adam and Eve to sin but in the beginning He already had a plan to redeem us.
Calvinism is a man made filter to read the Bible through. Eph 1 is not saying God predestined nonbelievers to be believers. It is a list of blessings that God prepared ahead of time for those who are in Him (believers). Believers are predestined to the future redemption of our bodies. Romans 8:23 makes it clear that the adoption = the redemption of our bodies. Predestination in the Bibke is never referring to God predestining a nonbeliever to be a believer.
Jc Thomas I agree with you Romans 9 does seem to confuse people some...
The bottom line … why would scripture warn us numerous times about “choosing light over darkness” … if we really didn’t even have a choice … that would be extremely deceiving and confusing. God is a good God, and a just God… His word says it because we DO have a choice.
We have the choice, but we don't have the desire. That's the point of Calvinist. Man loves sin and chooses not to come to God. If a man chooses God, it's only because God choose him
The gospel is preached to all so the elect may be drawn and come to faith because no one knows the elect until they come to believe.
After reading many of the comments I have come to the conclusion that today's Calvinists are no better than the word of faith or NAR followers. They are more set on proving their point rather than giving the Gospel to the world.
Clearly Pastor Greg doesn’t understand reform doctrine . Need s to read the potters freedom
you need to quit reading books, and read the bible
@@Mark-oo3om That's like saying don't listen to sermons and read the bible. Don't listen to Laurie and read the bible. Its good to read Chosen but Free and the response to that book The Potter's Freedom to get both perspectives.
@@Mark-oo3om What an empty meaningless comment and jab at someone to take. Just because someone disagrees with you, you assume they do not hold to scripture as their final authority? I'm sure he agrees that books are great supplements to better help explain certain concepts, but never replace the Bible. The Potter's Freedom is an excellent book from someone who holds to Sola scriptura, responding to An arminian's view (Norman Geisler) on human autonomous freewill. Whenever people laugh at other people for reading books and studying, it's usually because they are lacking in that department. Yes God gave us the Bible, but we are not an island of knowledge as he also gave us the church and spiritually wise men and women of God who can teach. I say read The Potter's freedom, then test it with scripture to see if what he is saying is true.
I have some family members who preach God created some for heaven and some created for hell. They go further by saying if you are created for hell it's ok because it brings God glory. 🤔😟👎. That is not what the Bible says. They always make sure that you know they are calvanists. I'm a Christian but reject their calvanist beliefs . They also told one lady who was needing comfort and prayer for her sick husband to be saved that if he isn't one of the elect nothing basically can be done. Terrible.
That stuff actually is Biblical. Although I agree that what they told the lady is just plain dumb.
@@matthiasbates9660 I dont see how God creating someone to torment in hell for an eternity brings him glory when he sent his son to die for the sins of all mankind. It can't bring him glory. This is why I believe denominations bring division in the body of christ. There is one church but so many who say only they know the right interpretation of his word. His word is good and brings life not the discouragement what my family is preaching.
@@Habitation333 I understand that it's a difficult concept to accept. Even I as a Calvinist have a hard time dealing with it. Have you been through Romans 9 recently? It confronts this exact issue.
@@matthiasbates9660 yes many times and I understand about predestination as you see it and I simply dont see it as you do when I read it. I do not use mans opinions(commentary) to understand the word. I pray and read and to me how can man want to run to a God who would create some to burn for an eternity to bring him glory? Man wont. How could you trust him. What's the need for jesus to die for our sins if God doesn't really receive all who call upon his name for salvation except those he created to go to heaven. God is God and could do anything he wanted so why not just do the create this one for heaven this one for hell and not let his son die for us if there is no free will. The God I read about in the bible isn't the same as the calvanist teachings sees. I have been listening to it for years and always come away feeling depressed and fearful. Is that how God wants to show his love , no. Calvanisim is not completely correct in its interpretation of the word. Nothing you say will change my opinion on what I read . I'm a saved Christian and loved by a Sovereign God and he gives me joy when I read his word. Calvanist teachings not all but part of it bring darkness and that should be s cause for concern to anyone following it. That's how I feel about it. I pray my family sees their points of error and find truth because everytime I ever sat down and spoke with a calvanist I get harshness in the guise of love. If you dont believe their way then you are lost , simply not truth. Gods grace is wonderful and for all who will receive it.
@@matthiasbates9660 ua-cam.com/video/7jTf58y5ZKg/v-deo.html
Hi Pastor, I’m confused how you can be so sure people are not predestined to hell. Is God not all knowing? He didn’t determine it for you, but how can it not be true that people are destined to go to hell from God’s perspective if He is all knowing?
This level of misunderstanding is sad because Greg is a teacher.
Why is it that people who don't agree with calvinistic belief are said to ' not understand'? I understand it. I now reject it. It's far more complicated than even what Laurie says here.
You may be the person who misunderstands.
im sure that scripture says that you are the one who is misunderstanding
@@kierstencreates958 perhaps. Yet I understood Calvinism, and now reject it. Hmmmm
It's one thing to disagree, but quit another to misrepresent the position you disagree with.
For anybody reading this, looking to dig deeper into scripture on this, Soteriology 101 with Dr. Leighton Flowers is incredible. Very fair and balanced stuff
LoL Flowers' ministry isn't even worth a hill of beans. He's not competent enough when it comes to reformed theology
Nah skip anything from Leighton. He's bitter and his positions are born from this disposition. Not very fair and off balance.
@@jchan810Very true
@@jchan810 If you are really Christian who knows the formal definition of love then you shouldn't say this because you would be contradicting the 2nd Greatest Commandment. I don't support provisionism. Leighton Flowers emerged because of the heretical views of Calvinism. Humanity has free will.
Calvinist and atheists share the commonality of rejecting free will. Hence a consistent Calvinist is consequently someone who accepts Fatalism.
I am against Calvinism but I recognise that I must hear the other side to dismantle their arguments.
Read an article that pulled it all together for me.. Said there are three things you see in the Bible.. 1) free will 2) God influencing people to choose the right thing, but it’s still their decision 3) God overriding free will, making that choice for someone. God, in his sovereignty, gave us free will, but as Creator He can do whatever he wishes with his own creation. He desires all to be saved so He doesn’t make the reverse decision, condemning someone who doesn’t have a choice.. but at times He will make that choice in the affirmative for someone. This then gives us a new way to pray.. if it’s in the Bible, we can pray that God influences someone to choose Him.. or that He would make that decision 2:42 for them. Doesn’t hurt to ask.. Article: Our Payers Can Get God To Override Free-will by Mark Broadbent
Jhn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Satan has been judged to the lake of fire.
There are free will - with the altar calls. And than there is Gods elect. No altar call - did not have a chose. I waited all my life to be chosen and when He did I immediately followed Him- no questioning of faith - just thank you Father.
Spurgeon was a Calvinist and never hid that fact. Predestination is in the Bible and so is man’s responsibility. Preach to all to repent of sin and believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.
If Calvinism was true...then there would be no need for a Adversary.
Slowly read your comment again...
@@jonathanhauhnar8434 I read it very sloooooooooooooooooooooooow. 😉
Don't you mean Advocate ? As in Jesus taking up for you before the Father? I can understand the misspelling. It happens with autocorrect.
@@bruceanthony3357 No...I meant Satan. Why do you need a Satan if you are chosen? I mean, why would he waste his time on a chosen person? Exactly, he wouldn't. 1 John 5:4-5: “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?“.
@@rjcontra Satan, to the extent that any of this makes sense, would not know who is elect and who is not. God and Satan are not two equal opposing forces. But I start to worry we are both indulging in folly to put so fine a point on things.
Thanks Pastor Laurie
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"They shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it." (Amos 8:12)
Thank you Pastor Laurie ❤️
My two cents; Predestination is God reserving a place for each person in heaven. Free will give you the choice to accept or decline the reservation. Just sayin'.
Yeah they’re both there
@@0vercast7 Yep. The middle path.
No free will in Salvation
You're saying there'll be a few empty seats in heaven??
So think about. 1) if it were truly up to us to choose God we would choose the world over God each time 2) saying we have the capability as His creation to resist and choose whether we want to believe put us at His level, which is ridiculous we can’t resist His will period. God can do whatever whenever to whomever He wants. He can even pick and choose who He wants to be in Heaven and he’ll, he is a sovereign God and we are nothing more than His creation.
I did not see one thing wrong with Pastor Greg's message. Healthy discussion is good.
Read ur Bible n then u will see
@@jonanthony6179The pastor was correct
Pastor Laurie, We go way back to the new belivers Mon nights at Calvary CM, I live in Newport Beach, and My son is in OK, and is a JW... He's a preacher on the subject " with students" He wants to save me. Do you have any speaking on these JW beliefs? Help me, point me to something, books, etc where I can find a good rejection/ debate/ b/c he says he's not supposed to even speak to me. but he's making an exception. I'm his mom. I listen on the radio to you, and when you're in town I will always be there. You are like my blood brother Greg Laurie, we grew up together.
I love you Greg. I am a former Calvary Chapel Elder. I used to believe as you. But now embrace the Doctrines of Grace. But brother, your clip here did a dis service to everyone. The applause of the audience just highlighted how emotion so often trumps exegesis. I pray you take this down. God bless you with wisdom and grace.
JesusLoveMinistries bless you
What did he say that was wrong? Where in the Bible does it say that god has predestined most of humanity for an eternity in hell before the foundation of the world. Chapter, verse?
@@Jgbeg I don't know you said it. You tell me.
Read Romans 9, notice verses 22-24
@@joshuahardy8505 Read the rest of Romans 9. Israel didn't seek righteousness by faith. So salvation passed from them to Gentiles. Apparently, though, God forced them to go astray; so I guess it really is his fault and he is the author of deception and sin. And people are in Hell for something they literally have no control over.
That is, I would have to believe that if I were a Calvinist. I've been there. I had my time of hating God for his callousness, and bitterness for having made me in this world of sin he created. Then I learned from the scriptures instead of Piper or MacArthur. Man truly does have free will, and having heard the gospel can choose to accept or reject it.
Greg Laurie: "The idea that God has freedom to "have mercy on whomever He wills, and harden whomever He wills" (Rom 9:18)? I reject that completely!"
Hahaha, right on point
@SIPPIN ON THIS AC DONT KNOW HOW TO ACT maybe read all of Romans 9.
@@MrNocaster like Romans 9:30-32?
Read just the beginning verses of Romans 9,10, and 11. Who's the focus?
Wasn't that to israel
Very diplomat for a tough topic!
its called escape and avoid when you have no actual theology hahaha
@@uncasunga1800 uhm what did he escape?
If people have free will, why is it so hard for them to follow Jesus? If they have freedom to do whatever they want, why does it seem impossible for them to believe in Jesus?