And the trolls blaming all female characters, and writers forget there are many bad male ones too. They also forget women contributed to the original Star Wars, (Lucus' ex wife basically saved it) and other famous franchises and series.
Wonder Woman got it right the first time, how did they not get the memo and mess it up so much after that. She should have been the blue print NOT Captain Marvel, WW was physically strong but her character was naïve at first, she had to learn and grow and actually went on the heroes journey! But instead feminist and activist writers chose to write self inserts and power fantasies
I think writers should just treat female characters as actual human beings and actual characters rather than a plot armours demigods with no flaws! 🤦♂️
While not a character or movie people would expect, I would argue that Ginormica from Monsters vs Aliens had more appeal in general and was done better than a lot of the female characters the MCU and Star Wars has been cranking out recently.
Remember Hunger games? Katnis got to be badass and the hero and Peeta didnt need to be turned into weak idiot. Sam and Steve didnt have to be weak so Natasha shines in Winter soldier. These and many other characters were written well and they were beloved as well. If your male characters have to be ridiculed so your female one shines then she isnt a strong character
Don't even have to be that recent. Princess Leia was my first strong, female character (my dad showed me the OT as soon as I was old enough to understand). Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, and Lando all got to be heroes in their own shining moments, despite Luke clearly being the main character. I don't get why they went from that to freaking Rey Sue.
It's rather funny you say that because I guess Brad Wright was doing something wrong i.e. box checking when he introduced the character of Sam Carter into Stargate when the character didn't previously exist in the original film.
I don’t think they always do (I don’t even think it’s the majority of the time historically), but you’re right that sometimes it feels like they’re just sorta there rather than given a compelling and impactful (in terms of how they’re used in the plot and how their characterization is relevant in the show) character in their own right.
Female characters anime/magna are largely sexualized, Sailor Moon included. Even those created by Clamp fall prey to this despite Clamp being an all female writing team.
@@faketohmablack lagoon is one of those anime’s where the men are dangerous but THE WOMEN are absolutely terrifying. Especially that terminator they call a freaking maid Roberta.
Do these companies and writers not remember; Ellen Ripley, Agent Scully, Samus, Furiosa, Yu Shu Lien, Sara Connor T2, Nancy from a nightmare on Elm street 1 & 3, Mrs Brisby from Secret of NIMH, Lori Strode, Carrie, Lola (Run Lola Run), Sidney Prescott, Jackie Brown, Thelma & Louise, Marge (Fargo), Xena Warrior princess & Gabrielle, Clarice Starling, Trinity, Buffy, Zoe & Kayleigh & River & Inara from firefly, Ginger snaps girls, Storm, The Bride, Lady Vengeance, Sonja Blade, woman from Tokyo Gore Police, totally spy, the list goes on. All good beloved female characters who weren't industry shills made to push agendas.
@@Dru2037well it started with endgame and that cringe "let the girls save the day" sequence where conveniently every single guy was absent so that they could all line up for a hero shot without them. That's the very definition of forced scenes
@@Dru2037 Gender swapping just cuz, etc. Not the best examples but Ghost and Task Master stand out to me. Now theres more female characters in the Thunderbolts roster than men. It was a choice, a weird one. I do like Ghost personally in the mcu but Taskmaster destroyed the character so bad. That was forced.
Women have been part of movies since the invention of the camera. And there are more movies than ever before and tons of them still star and/or are made by women. And plenty of them are really good. A select number of Blockbusters or adaptations of popular IPs do NOT reflect the entire world of entertainment. That’s just what people who have money to make off cultural tribalism want you to think (whether it be from the corporations themselves or from grifters).
Wolf children Princess Mononoke Nausicaä 1984 In the line of duty 4 Chocolate 2008 The shadow strays 2024 The villainess Iron angels 1987 Wonder woman 2009 GL: Emerald knights
I've said it before, I'll say it again: There's always been underlying messages, agendas, statements, etc,. in fillms. The big difference is that before, the writers new how to weave these things into the stories thematically. Now they let the story suffer because theyre too busy trying to bash the consumer over the head with their messsge firsthand.
Or is it a conspiracy to create an audience that watches the show and fight over the politics of the show/movie while the company earns money and could hire anyone off the streets to write shows as quality has little relevance
The word my high school English teacher used with pure derision was 'didactic'. Keeping things subtle or just posing a question rather than providing an answer prompts thought. It avoids needing to bend the narrative to support your conclusion. However, if you're a writer of fiction, I think there's some merit in painting an alien world and avoiding adhering to your own tastes. An alien world might be more alive, less pre processed. If you don't have an agenda, then you can't really fall into the trap of spoonfeeding your audience nutritional baby food ("here comes the airplane"). It can be insulting to the audience if your political theories are trite. If you had a film that spent two hours trying to convince an audience that women aren't the worst or which had the bold take 'racism is bad', your audience is be perplexed that your film is self righteously staging an intervention for them. They'll respond with "thanks. I was 5 minutes from committing a hate crime, but your staggering, artful work of moral clarity has stayed my hand. Can I name my first child in honor of you?" The association with 'hollywood writer' now is someone with zero life experience who wouldn't know how to comport themselves outside LA. Show biz folk used to be regarded as something nearer to carnies and conmen. For instance, The defining figure of the first 50 years of the American film industry was likely Charlie Chaplin. I think his origins were absolutely dirt poor and by no means happy. If films had a moral message, it wasn't coming from someone who necessarily presumed themselves to be part of the enlightened virtual aristocracy talking down to the peasants. People are more receptive to conversations from someone who has the manner of an equal. Not a nanny saying "eat your porridge. it's good for you". Or, at least, that's my humble contention. In the UK and australia, there are state broadcasters, whose aim was partially to engage in moral instruction. In both instances, they're sometimes referred to as 'Aunty' to convey the idea of some joyless figure who thinks it's their role to correct your grammar and manners. I don't see why Hollywood would want to adopt the role of some demented aunt.
@@Dru2037 … and because they don't know how to write, they really have zero idea of how to deliver a message subtly without insulting their audience's intelligence. Which is why it's so easy for anyone with one brain cell to detect when they're being preached to. Back in the day, X-Men delivered messaging about Civil Rights much more deftly and subtly to lead the audience to a logical conclusion, instead of beating them over the head with it.
One character both me (a guy) and my sisters loved was Selene from Underworld. She was strong badass but knew that she had her limits so she’d use weapons.
Selene still fell victim to the common gender tropes and stereotype in storytelling though. Now if you said Buffy The Vampire Slayer then I agree because the character was created with the express purpose of subverting the gender stereotypes and tropes that female character fall victim to.
There's so many female characters that were appealing to women but then these "writers" and execs ruined them. HQ? Ruined. Wonder Woman? Ruined. Hawkgirl? Ruined. Lara Croft? Ruined. Ahsokha? Ruined. On and on and on, and it's not fair. The bar is so low at this point, and even then, we're still struggling to clear it.
@@sincerelynotme3522 exactly how has Lara Croft been ruined. Perhaps if you actually paid any attention to what Toby Gard, Adrian Heath-Smith, and Jeremy Heath-Smith, the people involved with the creation of the character have said about Lara since 1995 you see there's no problem with the character
@@gloriathomas3245 yeah, I don't get this Lara Croft hate. Is it about that rise of the Tomb Raider games? I thought she was written fine there. She is suposed to be young and not as hardened as we saw her in previous games
She Hulk should have been a home run. The character has the visual appeal, comedic charm and a natural link to numerous other characters. They screwed up badly with that.
we enjoy feminine and kind hearted female characters... they should just avoid writing the ones that are Insufferable and toxic Narcissists who think they are better than everybody else.. like that she hulk show
There should be all kinds of female characters. Feminine and cute, yes, beauty queen and housewife but also hardened and bitchy too. And toxic narcissists. And tomboys. And introverted loners. Problem is I want story to acknowledge a toxic b*tch if she is being a toxic b*tch to people. Not paint her as a hero standing up to patriarchy or a victim. And I want her to own her level of femininity (high or low) without being hated on by american left or right. And I don't want writers to surround her with weak stupid male characters to show how cool she is. Because that's who we are - different people with different stories. Just like men. Surprise. Not only guys should be allowed to have character and attitude. If you only want one female character to be copy pasted in every movie and tvshow you are no better than disney
@@matthiasschulz3569 This makes me think of Avatar Korra. I don't want to be too harsh but a lot of times she did feel like a raging narcissist (in the layman sense, not NPD), and the show let her get away with it too often imo. They did acknowledge that she had flaws, but for the most part they tried to play it as her being spunky and determined. For example, she showed up to her bf's job (police station) and trashed his office in an unjustified woman-child tantrum and they acted like it was no big deal. She could have had an amazing character arc like Zuko if they had girl-bossed her a little less and let her own up to her flaws more consistently. Such a frustrating character.
i dont think people have a problem with the female super heroes. its the changes that were made on the female heroes. for example the race swapping and turning the female heroes gay or trans gender when its not related to the original stories.
You missed one important point, I think. The people trying to make action films that appeal to women, don't understand women. Putting a female character in the lead role won't attract a female audience, but putting a shirtless Daniel Craig or Chris Hemsworth in a lead role will. Having a female character kick ass won't get women into the cinema, but include a romance somewhere in the mix and they'll come along for the ride. Make that romance a lesbian romance, and you've lost them again. There are always exceptions, of course, but if you're hoping to attract women in any significant numbers (and not just appeal to a niche audience), you need to give women what the majority of them want, not what you think they SHOULD want.
I agree with your points. I would add though that some of the problem is that there shouldn't be some bar of "greatness". There were plenty of shitty to average male characters who found their niche, or received better adaptations eventually, without having to be criticized immediately on the basis of their gender. I think it feels heavy handed because ultimately it is a male dominated space because thats the audience the medium has always been written to appeal to since forever. It's not a problem that's going to be solved overnight. I think the real answer is people, really need to go back to letting people like what they like, and if something doesn't appeal to them they dont have to watch it. I think there's too many people trying to farm outrage by telling people "I dont like a thing and here's why you shouldn't either". Im sure we all have plenty of bad content that we've enjoyed, and everyone should be able to take those kinds of swings.
Majority of the fanbase don't have a problem with female leads in gaming and movie, they have a problem with the way it is done by injecting politics activism into it. The Kill Bill movies are my favorite which has a strong female lead and her story was brilliantly written. Activists keep injecting their ideology into things they're not truly fans of.
I have the same bias now but it’s not a guarantee. As much as I think the Marvel comics version of Kamala Khan is lame (have only read like five issues of her original run and seen her in a bunch of guest appearances in other comics), I do think that the MCU one is a decent character, surprisingly. The performance is good and the she’s likable and a pretty solid character, aside from some stupid stuff with her powers and the bangles. So, it is possible. I just hope we see more of that in the future. Also, they’ve ruined most of the new and old male characters too so it’s not just an issue with their female heroes.
I agree with you, but only from Disney! Warner Bros. knows how to do female characters better than Disney does, as long as they have the right people in charge for the right reasons, then yeah! They can make great female character that are strong and independent and brave but flawed without taking away from the male characters!
There's an editted version of the hobbit trilogy that gutted the entire character and love triangle plot (along with everything but 5min of the battle which was imo still 5 min too long) and it is the only watchable version. They took all the wizard side quests and oakshield backstory and re-editted it into a 50 min "histories" type video which was also a great place for it because it wasn't that I didn't enjoy the backstory world build...just not 2 movies of it.
I find that characters that appeal to women aren't written with the intention to appeal to women. The ones written to appeal to women also feel the need to denigrate the men because "muh feminism".
I think the difference is the seamless way these female characters went with the story. I can't help but feel that sometimes they overinflate these female characters purposely and bring male characters down. Which is terrible writing in this female's opinion. There's a difference between she kicks ass and god is she obnoxious.
I want to add a more nuaunced perspective from the other side. As a man it is not a pleasant experience watching a movie, show, game, whatever, with a female lead for the past 10 years. Anything outside of rewatching the first two Aliens movies I'm no longer interested in. Because I don't want to sit there for two hours anticipating when the next man bashing line of dialogue. Sure there are female lead stories that don't do that these days but they're few and far between and even for those that aren't like that at all I don't find it relaxing to sit there guarded aginst some man hating garbage.
The issue is with obligation. It shoukd be okay to have some stories with all men. Many war stories it's almost necessary to have no female characters, for example, and adding one in just to make it *not* all men would be dumb. It should also be ok to have stories with all women, to be clear, but that's rarely been an issue, though you could argue not *enough* of those have been made.
I grew up with Chris Claremont's X mutant books and Marv Wolfman's New Teen Titans in the 80s. They featured female action heroes long before they were in movies and they worked because they were complex, well written characters first.
If I had to summarize: what’s killing some of these franchises is a forced/inconsiderate insertion of ideas and characters to expand the audience range
Are you familiar at all with Japan's manga/anime categories? They separate them by target audiences. Shonen for teen males, Shojo for teen females, Seinen for young adult men, Josei for young adult women, etc. There are more but those are the major ones... seems to be a system that works well for them and is honest about our base interests. Shonen seems to be the most popular and attracts both males as well as many females, but it's interesting to see the successes when they target their particular base audiences instead of trying to please everyone... ends up attracting all sorts of people regardless of group. I only just discovered your channel but would be interesting to see you tackle that world of entertainment as well. A lot of western audiences are abandoning the comics & movies here in favor of eastern storytelling.
Just give me well written characters - male or female. Give me a plot with depth too. It can be done! Treat the source material with love and respect, no matter who the character is.
True dat, Jester! Also, nice black Spider-Man suit, it looks cool on you! I remember that that was in Spider-Man 3! That was a great movie, but the trilogy had wasted potential now that I know that they had cancelled plans for Spider-Man with Tobey but were unable to get him back, I think! That's sad to hear, 'cause I really liked his Spider-Man back then! He was great! Anyway, Happy Halloween! We just need Hollywood to make better movies instead of trying pander to woke weirdoes on social media, that's all!
Thanks for continuing to make these videos and remind people that the issue isn’t female heroes. I agree with most people that they’ve made a lot of annoying and shit ones that have become infamous in recent years but I have a lot of female characters in fiction that I love, so I hate that some people have begun to think that they can’t be done well in general or even just in certain franchises or stories. I’ve never loved the notion of creating a character from X demographic to appeal to said audience demographic, because I really wish we were past that, but I dunno if that’s entirely fair and just because that’s a starting point doesn’t mean that that has to be the only appeal that character has going forward. I just wish that they’d give them clear traits, have those traits matter and be taken seriously in the narrative and inform how they operate throughout the story (you know, basic character writing?), and not powerscale them out of the story because the idiot writing them simply thinks “bigger is better”. Going forward, hopefully, we get some better heroes, in general (people tend to forget that they’ve been damaging the male heroes too through all of this) and we can move past this nonsense culture war stuff.
This is why I tend to gravitate towards shoujo anime and been recommending shoujo anime to younger folks. It's not afraid or ashamed to lean into girl power and be well written (albeit kids shows like Pretty Cure are simplistic, but it doesn't mean that there's some valuable lessons and morals for all ages there). Also, merchandising is prettier.
She-Hulk was more made to register the trademark, or else some other publisher could come in and name a character that. Problem is you can’t just register a name with nothing tangible behind it. Same with Spider-Woman.
There are many women who like guy stuff. Appealing to them is fine. But trying to appeal to women (or men!) who don't like guy stuff is the problem. Any attempt to control the demographics of your audience is bad.
Hit Girl was the standout in kickass, and she was loved. Today, they try to make every chick Hit Girl, and every dude kjckass. Kickass was a loser and inferior to her. Even so, the movie did not have a meaningful female audience or fan base. Action movies (that’s what superhero films are) will never attract a devoted female audience that can sustain the genre. There are more Barbies than Alitas.
Not to call the point out too much, but you were right on with "These characters were good even though they were created to appeal to a more female audience." (not a quote, just the point made) The difference is what the writers of the characters did with them after that initial goal. Batgirl was not "Batman but girl." She-Hulk was not "Hulk but girl." They were fully fleshed out characters with personalities and stories different than the male characters that spawned them. It didn't matter if there was corporate jockeying for trademarks or cynical pursuits of more money behind them, what mattered and what made them work or not work was what the final character was and how they appealed to audiences.
You are very brave trying to out a nuanced balanced look on social media. It will cause the algorithm- brain-washed masses to run to their silos and scream through their keyboards. One of my favorite movies if the last 5 years was The Hunt. What a great female action lead. Lead characters need to suffer/struggle to get to their goals. That is why The Last Kiss Goodnight is a great movie. Keep up the good work. Fighting the corporate algorithm is hard.
The big difference with the characters you've mentioned is the reason behind the reason of their creation. They might have been created to bring in more girls, BUT for commercial reasons and not for any SJW-agenda driven reasons. Therefore they where created to be part of an already existing brand, franchise and medium and not as something to challenge and fight this very franchise, brand or the comic medium as a whole. So doing something out of a mostly commercial agenda can actually be beneficial to a brand, or a franchise, because you would usually have to do the things that you do in a way that fans could appreciate. And even such an effort has a great potential to fail, but shoving agendas into everbodie's faces is absolutely bound to fail -and it obviously does so. I grew up with female characters in movies and in comics and many of them are my favorite characters of all time. And I have a daughter that I've actually named after one of them. I don't need creators in any medium to lecture me. I just want interesting stories, strong characters and great artwork and maybe, just maybe a good point about how the real world works, or an idea how everything could be a little bit better. PS: Just to be clear this is absolutely not against your channel. I'm certain you understand what I mean with the above.
My wife wanted to watch two superhero movies: The Batman and Aquaman. I'm pretty eye the latter was for Jason Mamoa. Representation wasn't a factor. TBH, just making a film appeal more to a general audience will probably bring more women in.
I think I agree with you. Might be I know of a ... parable(?) that kinda matches the issue here. Scorpion and the fox? Or is it the turtle? I dunno, something that can ferry a scorpion, only gets stung because that's its nature. If'n da CEO wants money but also has a pension for fan fics and kinks... welp, they might be a little in the middle, but Tremors still gets my middle going three decades later. Gotta spend money to make money and that awful scene with blind owl about snowmen... It is being spent wrong.
The big difference with those old characters and the new ones is that the old characters WERE NOT AFRAID OF THE MALE GAZE. Those characters were basically Aquaman, but for men/boys. If you write/draw a character like that today it will be immensely successful.
Thank you!!! People forget that characters like Wonder Woman wasn’t afraid of the male gaze even back in the 40’s. Current Execs forget the the James Bond appeal, “Women want him and men want to be him.” It goes for female characters too. As long as it’s treated with respect.
I like that these titles sound as if she was talking to a kid, except that kid is Hollywood and all the issues stem from lacking common sense. Like being sane is something strange nowadays among creatives.
It has become the default to reject female characters recently because of how badly they have been done during the MCU and and the star wars reboot some years back. I saw the trailer for Ballerina a week ago and I found it to be kinda cool despite not being into the John Wick franchise, but to no surprise people were trying to pass her off as a female John Wick rip off which I thought was unfair as the trailer clearly shows she does train to become quite a formidable character, and John Wick even appears at the end of the trailer as a way to show support for this new character.
I think if you can make a few ladies really shine in their roles then that should be enough regardless how many weaners are dominating the movie or TV show.🐱
Your half right. As long as were talking Marvel it is poorly written characters but it is also trying to appeal to women. Comics is a boy brand but a couple of decades ago Marvel decided it wanted to be a girls brand. Thus came all new all different Marvel . Or kill all white male heroes and make them a minority and or female. Thus came Riri Williams who after Tony Stark died somehow had his armor, company, and was declared the greatest Ironman in all of history. The fact that she was poorly written didn't help. Of course there was always a place for women in comics. Carlol Danvers has been around since the 70's, she was just never more than a b treir character. She couldn't mantain her own title but was a welcome team addition or guest star. Then Marvel decided she would become the new face of the Marvel Universe and the greatest heroine in all the universe. The fact she was poorly written didn't help. She Hulk has waffled between a and b teir status, had multiple solo books and been on the two biggest teams in the Marvel Universe. The She Hulk tv show was not only badly written but wasn't a superhero show. And through it all Marvel has had one consistant message. You will love everything about our crap or your a sexist who should never be allowed to speak. Is it any wonder the audience has been conditioned to go female lead oh god not again.
I don't know. Reversing the equation might be interesting. If Hollywood decided they wanted to get men to watch romcoms or jane austen adaptations, they'd probably have limited room before they started to lose women. But you probably have a little wiggle room. You can make concessions that aren't turning your romcom into an action movie. For the record, as a dude, I'll admit to having watched romcoms voluntarily. Some I probably liked. But most made me want to claw at my skin. I'm still angry about Kate and Leopold (but god help me, I like Jackman's earlier romcom Paperback Hero at the time. I was young. you can't blame me for lapses in judgement.). Wonderwoman with Gal Gadot seemed to make effective concessions to a female audience. But it gave the male characters things to do. They weren't pure subordinates and she had moments of being broken. It adjusted the costumes but didn't stick Diane in baggy clothing to make sure that men were thwarted. It was relatively affable. If you want precise things about Marvel's attempts at being more women-centric, I'd present Brie Larson. If they ditched her attitude problem and the weird fantasy in captain marvel of beating up some dude and humiliating him, then maybe men wouldn't despise Captain Marvel. Same way, when Doctor Who cast Jodie Whitaker, I think they gave her lines about her female form being an 'upgrade', where a previous male to female regeneration was accompanied by derisive remarks about male ego. I'm not sure dudes like making things more women-centric by adding a bucketload of contempt and sadism. In terms of a line, I kinda defended Mandalorian season 3. If Pedro Pascal has one foot out the door, it made sense to have a secondary lead. And I like Katee Sackhoff. Working as a team didn't bother me. By contrast, I wouldn't argue with anyone who thought the Witcher season 3 had become the Ciri and Yennifer show.
I know this is specifically about comics, but we really dont give Star Wars the credit it deserves because its been so destroyed. Im talking Original Trilogy, here. Maybe Leia wasnt enough to hook a lot of girls in the 70's or 80's, but for girls in my generation (90's kids), she was and is still the tits (phrasing, sorry). Shes what I think of first when you say "well written strong female character" and she stands out from a lot of the action hero ones like Sarah Connor because shes strong without kicking all the boys' butts. She tells girls you dont have to try to be a man to be strong, which is not the sort of message we're getting these days. Also thanks for bringing up Tariel and The Hobbit. I didnt even watch the third movie because the story had been screwed up so much by made up characters, characters that weren't even supposed to be there yet, and needless memberberries to the Lotr trilogy (those werent in the book because The Hobbit was written before Lotr, geniuses). I love the Hobbit (book) for what it is--I didnt need it to become a worse version of Lord of the Rings.
Even as a kid, I’ve absolutely LOVED girls. I love seeing them do all the cool fighting and whatnot in their cool outfits and all. I especially loved seeing Black Widow and always wished she had more screen time. I prefer to see women than men. But because of how people are writing female characters these days, it makes me so disappointed to see any show or movie that centers a female lead cause I know that they’re going to be insufferable as hell. I wish people would stop trying to push some narrative that women are better than men while simultaneously making women in media exaggeratedly masculine with the worst masculine qualities (if that makes sense). These writers aren’t “helping” women; they’re destroying our image. I hope this changes
IPs other than Marvel and Star Wars have done wonderful work pushing women characters into the lead - arcane comes immediately to mind. Vi and Jinx are complicated, feminine, powerful, and sympathetic. It feels like recently too often women characters are written in as men with tits and the result is jarring to the audience.
If its not a 'girl brand', why do studios like Marvel give you mostly naked men while covering their females up fully and constantly? I feel like, again, you have misconstrued the original complaint. ALSO - when people complain that media is 'too political' now, they mean social politics, not worldbuilding ones. Media used to make you think, not tell you WHAT to think. And writers now spell out their own politics, with no skill or subtlety and to the detriment of the story they are telling. Again, how have you missed this point?
Question: There’s a few copies of a compilation of Paul Dini’s Gotham City Sirens run (well, half of it) at my local college’s bookstore. Would you recommend that I pick it up? I think the concept of Harley, Ivy and Selina teaming up is fun and Dini’s really the only one who ever got Harley right, but I don’t know how it’d hold up on its own.
From my perspective, the prize mistake when writing female characters nowadays is that Hollywood often reduces strength to just combat and fighting. Now don't get me wrong, I do love a badass chick who can kick ass, but more often than not strength is best depicted when focused on intelligence, cunningness, resourcefulness, wit, and most importantly willpower. One example I can think of is Meria Martell from the ASOIAF universe. She was the ruling princess of Dorne during Ageon's Conquest, and would continue to rule during his attempt to conquer her realm. She even defied his sister Rhaenys openly when confronted by her, here's the excerpt: "Finally the queen’s flight took her to Sunspear, the ancient seat of House Martell, where she found the Princess of Dorne waiting in her abandoned castle. Meria Martell was eighty years of age, the maesters tell us, and had ruled the Dornishmen for sixty of those years. She was very fat, blind, and almost bald, her skin sallow and sagging. Argilac the Arrogant had named her “the Yellow Toad of Dorne,” but neither age nor blindness had dulled her wits. “I will not fight you,” Princess Meria told Rhaenys, “nor will I kneel to you. Dorne has no king. Tell your brother that.” “I shall,” Rhaenys replied, “but we will come again, Princess, and the next time we shall come with fire and blood.” “Your words,” said Princess Meria. “Ours are Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. You may burn us, my lady… but you will not bend us, break us, or make us bow. This is Dorne. You are not wanted here. Return at your peril.” Thus queen and princess parted, and Dorne remained unconquered." - Fire and Blood, 2018
"Modern" writers try to make female characters "strong" by having them physically, mentally, and emotionally dominate men. That is unnatural, unrealistic, and unappealing because it misses the essence of women, femininity. Ellen Ripley from "Alien" is a fantastic strong, yet feminine, female character. She has command demeanor appropriate to a second officer and is respected. She mostly follows orders, but rightly questions her male superior's decision to bring the alien lifeform onboard. She keeps her head, though terrified, and finds a way to survive with her courage and intelligence. What she does NOT do is try to dominate men. Men are not at war with women, and view them as complementary, necessary, and wonderful life partners. Women at war with men will never have broad appeal in films. It doesn't make sense.
There are women in real life who can dominate most men. Unless I hallucinated Gina Carano. What do you mean by "unnatural" or "unrealistic?" What do you mean by "femininity" exactly? The essence? Women aren't a hive, they don't have an "essence." As for Ellen Ripley. I've heard her and Sarah Connor being hauled around a lot. Who else but them is a worthy strong female character.
I never understood why people like manipulative bad guys, like Venom, Joker, Poison ivy, i hate these guys, but people genuinely like them, are y'all nuts?
I think the problem is that the current show runners dislike the built-in audience. I think it's a very heavy-handed statement about who's in control and who isn't. I think it's pretty clear that activists got control of popular franchises and are using them to make a statement. I think if you're talking about "making shows more appealing to women," you're falling for their con.
The 17 women in my life, that are my relatives, friends, and colleagues. Only watched superhero movies or sci-fi movies, or as they call them "guys stuff". When there is a really good-looking guy, a trendy actress like zendaya in Dune, or some tumblr ship like reylo in star wars, ewwww of my part but they like that.
No offense, but maybe the 17 women in your life are kinda shallow and don't represent all women. That isn't to say "Sci fi should be taken away from men!" Just that a lot of women really do like sci-fi, more or less as it is without being forced to "appeal to a female audience" (but really appealing to no one).
The problem are not women, the problem is the DEI team trying to make androgynous beings without gender and trying to pass them as women to the audience. Women have breasts, have large hips, butt, and are feminine. That’s real and natural. Like the Catwoman in Dark Knight Rises: she is a complex and serious character being a normal woman at the same time.
I’m sorry, but have you met women before? Like real women? This is like saying all men have huge jaws and Peter Parker is a femboy. Like, women have diversity in bodies like men do. We even assigned fruit to body shapes. That’s why I like Arcane, personally. They got the Banana shaped Jinx, and the strawberry Vi, and the Pretty hourglass Caitlyn. All interpretations of their strengths and characters. Super Heroes would not all be busty women, despite the comics covers. That would be hell.
Oh no, Jesterbell gave her honest and thoughtful opinion that disagrees with mine! Quick! Call her a shill or something! Seriously, thank you for this. In particular, I am glad you mentioned that politics in films is not an inherent problem, just how it is applied. Look at shows like The New Norm...it is hilarious how conservatives basically did the very thing they criticise the Left for, just for different political beliefs. Yet the Original Ghosbusters could be considered classic pro-Capitalism in many ways and is still such an iconic film!
@@ToxicVex267/ man.....the pandemic" fucked that movie up, that movie came out, in (2021), in the heart of the pandemic", why you think it went to (Disney+) fast as hell"
@@ToxicVex267 you basically did, because the actress who "portrayed" the character did ZERO of the stunts, all the stunts were done by a man, UNCREDITED despite having more screen time than the actress.....
@@Blazeyatesother movies had zero issues during the pandemic, so that excuse doesn't fly. The main reason was it was a decade too late and the character was already dead in the MCU so the movie was completely pointless 🤷♂️ Also, side note, if we say pandemic ruined box office, then surely that means everyone was staying in and watching stuff instead? So surely it would have done immensely well on streaming, no?
@@A.Person...Maybe... / it did do well on streaming....., if you think the (pandemic") didn't make a difference in (2021) on movies, then you gotta be "snorting Ajaks" or some!!
Imo, I didn't think Captain Marvel was bad. it's just the actor didn't know how to be quiet and started to talk down on a group of people. I really liked when she appeared in Endgame. If she let her work do the talking which it was since her movie made a billion, I think she would've been okay or at least look in a nice light.
1st movie was kinda boring and cringe at moments. It's just a very forgettable movie. The 2nd movie was even more boring and it had terrible characters added in.
personally for me it wasn't that great a storyline. Her movie could be easily skipped on rewatch. the only purpose her movie served was a backstory so when Danvers showed up we didn't go who the hell was that and her powers were understandable for the scenes.
I think her attitude irl did rub a lot of ppl the wrong way with brie, but I also don't think captain marvel was a very good film. Brie's acting just wasn't very good and it felt like she played Captain marvel as kinda like this "I'm better than you" character which was kinda annoying to watch. Idk what happened with her tho bc I thought she was a fine actress in other movies, but not when she's playing Captain marvel
Jester, you have to understand that making something more appealing to a demographic requires a special touch. You need either a thorough insider (i.e. a woman writing the story) or someone who can bridge the gap (practically anybody who can identify common ground). I can write a "together they fight crime" buddy-cop superhero noir with a very basic hook and surreal twist. All it takes is a little assumption about one guy and a stark observation about a whole group. In this case: someone with Asperger's Syndrome and liberal guilt at large, white skin color optional, respectively. Babs Gordon had a brief few years of childhood in Cleveland, where she met a socially awkward dunce her exact age named Jean-Paul. Johnny was picked on for being strange, but he understood Babs better than practically anyone and the feeling was mutual. Their friendship had one rule of boundaries: no peeking inside his ramshackle house. Babs did so anyway and saw the strange setup used to sleep-train Jean-Paul. It was shocking enough that she scrubbed it from her memory, save the fact that she was caught and had a brief one-on-one with the maid and caretaker--who turns out to be the grim reaper, a goth chick and one of the Endless (she's basically Jean-Paul's mother figure). Years later, after having gone separate ways forcefully, Babs finally tracks down Jean-Paul at Gotham U's technology department. She has researched the Sacred Order of St. Dumas a whole lot and hopes to be the one who deprograms him. Now, with his father slain after a botched attempt on a gun runner's life, Jean-Paul is summoned to the Swiss Alps. Babs gives chase as Batgirl. However, despite her use of civilian and costumed guises, Jean-Paul is too instinctive a genius to fall for either and insists that she go home. Contrary to expectations, when Nomoz finally gets him to don the suit of Azrael, the order to "kill the lady" ends up with the guy extinguishing his restrained awkwardness and flat-out hitting on her almost shamelessly so Babs refuses to leave, but refuses to entertain Azrael's comeons. Over the course of what comes next she, as "DEVILGIRL", reels in the otherwise hyperviolent enforcer of the Lord, while he manages to keep her alive against the sort of harsher threats otherwise reserved for the big players in Gotham such as Batman, Ragman and Starman (yes, Starman is originally from Gotham, deal with it). They come to be known as "Knight & Dame" because they, unlike most of Gotham's vigilante circuit, operate 24/7, unafraid to work with police or to cultivate a cult of personality among the kids who congregate near a waning arcade center run by their cantankerous financier, a former member of the Sandman division, himself an Aspie with no social filter. The idea is that Babs thinks she has to deprogram Jean-Paul from his faith and keep him from bad influences, while there are plenty of influences on her end that, intentions besides, might get her killed. She's an adrenaline junkie and slowly disillusioned over her impact on the crime wave, while he's sick of not having adventure or purpose as well as being shortchanged by every liberal poser on campus. They're Aspies who pretty much need one another, but are perfect foils for each other. The gig is that Jean-Paul is a film noir hero and Babs the femme fatale, leading him to his doom as per the trope--even though doom in this context isn't necessarily horrible or even undesirable. It's still film noir, even with its comedic edge, as it is a crime saga illustrated like an avantgarde horror comic complete with horror hostess (i.e. Death of the Endless) and routine flashbacks between present day and contextual past events. One of the recurring themes is that Batgirl & Azrael are stupidly bad at communicating with the public, or even in one-on-one settings. Poison Ivy gets them both to a fair degree, but they eat foot too often to be seen as serious contenders--just a curious anomaly in the crime-fighting circuit. This after Wonder Woman becomes a quintessential burger-flipper, no doubt. The aim of this setup is to demonstrate the wide girth between Aspies (I've always thought Babs & Jean-Paul are dead-ringers) and the general public. It'll be hard to keep it from devolving into stereotypes or making it into the only theme we ever see in every episode, but it'll appeal to women because Jean-Paul is forthright and Babs is keen. Men will like it because Jean-Paul is committed and Babs is approachable. In short, people will see there are powerful qualities that Aspies have, which includes their disconnected social status. And that's how you do diversity. You have to make their makeup posit an actual conflict instead of being a key for solving every issue.
lol the stay to source meterial there are great women in the Marvel verse with and with out powers, problem is the concept of science and evolution that is what Marvel verse is really about how society come with it
Like it or not, because of the failures within Marvel, and Star Wars, and the random attempts to do similar things elsewhere, all attempts at diversity and inclusion will be viewed the same way. What came before doesn't matter.
I disagree with that statement. If that was the case then the fallout 4 TV show wouldn't have been a success or even the arcane show Either . Diversity is actually really simple you just treat it like a normal thing and you just have people just shut up and stop talking about what they believe and how very diverse and so on and so forth.
I can never understand why people keep making the quality of female characters a modern phenomenon. Historically female characters have never been treated great in fiction and its a situation not just limited to movies or TV shows, but also in literature. If you want to talk about just TV shows and movies then Hollywood has a very long history of blackballing female characters with terrible writing and anybody who is a actual fan of cinema would tell you tell you this outside of a few instances where you have writers/creatives like Joss Whedon, Brad Wright or Tracy Torme who elevate the status of female characters by writing them very good and in some cases giving the female actors a say in how their characters develope or are portrayed. Amanda Tapping for example was given a great degree of control by Wright over how her Stargate SG1 character was portrayed. Beyond that I don't like how videos like this make the issues with female characters to be a recent thing without examining the history of the issue.
The way they are created and the way they're talked about changes over time and it's perfectly fine to focus on the current era without going off on historical tangents
@@gloriathomas3245 What's a modern phenomenon is the surge of female leads in action sci-fi… it's true that female characters have traditionally never been great, but the great writers usually wrote great female heroes, like Sarah Connor or Ripley… now when they're creating more content featuring female leads, the bigger task falls on worse talent who don't know how to do it.
@@vitreo1363 first and foremost Sarah Conner and Ripley are terrible female characters because they still playing to gender tropes and stereotypes unlike a character like Buffy that breaks free of them. Beyond that speaking as a man (I'm using my mom's name) I have absolutely no problem with the surge in female action roles/characters as people like Joss Whedon, Brad Wright and Tracey Torme have written some of the best female characters, but importantly ones that do not conform to tropes or stereotypes.
If they wanted romance in the hobbit movies they should've just made Bilbo and Thorin quietly gay. You've already got years of gay hobbit jokes, just lean into it. 111+ year old confirmed bachelor in a house full of doilies and stuff? Meet the famous lord with no prospects from a race of mostly men who needs someone to care about him.
@@biguy617 Why? It makes logical sense, and Thorin already dies in his arms. They already have touching moments where they embrace. I'm not saying they should be making out, I'm just saying it's the romance that would have made sense to the product.
Completely agree. Female characters have never been the problem, only poorly written ones.
And the trolls blaming all female characters, and writers forget there are many bad male ones too. They also forget women contributed to the original Star Wars, (Lucus' ex wife basically saved it) and other famous franchises and series.
I love a good, strong female character when she's well written.
Wonder Woman got it right the first time, how did they not get the memo and mess it up so much after that. She should have been the blue print NOT Captain Marvel, WW was physically strong but her character was naïve at first, she had to learn and grow and actually went on the heroes journey! But instead feminist and activist writers chose to write self inserts and power fantasies
I think writers should just treat female characters as actual human beings and actual characters rather than a plot armours demigods with no flaws! 🤦♂️
Well I guess you must hate someone like Joss Whedon or Tracey Torme who do that with their female characters then
@@gloriathomas3245 idk who they are 🤷♂️
@@harryfleutv666 I'm pretty sure you know exactly who they are and what they've been involved with because everybody knows
Writers should start with a good story and character development.
While not a character or movie people would expect, I would argue that Ginormica from Monsters vs Aliens had more appeal in general and was done better than a lot of the female characters the MCU and Star Wars has been cranking out recently.
Remember Hunger games? Katnis got to be badass and the hero and Peeta didnt need to be turned into weak idiot. Sam and Steve didnt have to be weak so Natasha shines in Winter soldier. These and many other characters were written well and they were beloved as well. If your male characters have to be ridiculed so your female one shines then she isnt a strong character
💯👏
Don't even have to be that recent. Princess Leia was my first strong, female character (my dad showed me the OT as soon as I was old enough to understand). Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, and Lando all got to be heroes in their own shining moments, despite Luke clearly being the main character. I don't get why they went from that to freaking Rey Sue.
when they shoehorn in a character just to check a box they always seem to get it wrong.
It's rather funny you say that because I guess Brad Wright was doing something wrong i.e. box checking when he introduced the character of Sam Carter into Stargate when the character didn't previously exist in the original film.
I don’t think they always do (I don’t even think it’s the majority of the time historically), but you’re right that sometimes it feels like they’re just sorta there rather than given a compelling and impactful (in terms of how they’re used in the plot and how their characterization is relevant in the show) character in their own right.
How dare you give an answer that’s not either 0 or 1! This is the internet! You can’t provide NUANCE to a discussion!
You know what Anime portrays Female characters Super Well?
Sailor Moon 🌙
Ghost in the shell and Black Lagoon.
@@ToxicVex267Really that too? That’s Great! 😁
@@ToxicVex267 Revy is amazing. and batshi*t insane. its amazing.
Female characters anime/magna are largely sexualized, Sailor Moon included. Even those created by Clamp fall prey to this despite Clamp being an all female writing team.
@@faketohmablack lagoon is one of those anime’s where the men are dangerous but THE WOMEN are absolutely terrifying. Especially that terminator they call a freaking maid Roberta.
Anyone watch Deadpool Vs Wolverine, its not female lead, but i as a female loved it. Just wanted to know if anyone else liked it.
I wasn’t crazy on the movie tbh..
It was the last great Marvel movie.
I'm with you sister... It doesn't have to be "made for us" for us to enjoy it.
It had a good, creepy, female villain though. Something we rarely ever see. So there is hope for female characters.
When you change from the lore with new addition the new work is viewed as lore further down the road.
Do these companies and writers not remember;
Ellen Ripley, Agent Scully, Samus, Furiosa, Yu Shu Lien, Sara Connor T2, Nancy from a nightmare on Elm street 1 & 3, Mrs Brisby from Secret of NIMH, Lori Strode, Carrie, Lola (Run Lola Run), Sidney Prescott, Jackie Brown, Thelma & Louise, Marge (Fargo), Xena Warrior princess & Gabrielle, Clarice Starling, Trinity, Buffy, Zoe & Kayleigh & River & Inara from firefly, Ginger snaps girls, Storm, The Bride, Lady Vengeance, Sonja Blade, woman from Tokyo Gore Police, totally spy, the list goes on.
All good beloved female characters who weren't industry shills made to push agendas.
AYO NANCY THOMPSON, LAURIE STRODE, AND SIDNEY PRESCOTT MENTIONED 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
Thank you for this video. I've been very perturbed by the way the pendulum has been swinging lately, and I'm glad to see someone addressing that.
It used to be organic, now it's forced, or at least perceived that way. People naturally rebel against being forced into anything.
Forced how?
@@Dru2037well it started with endgame and that cringe "let the girls save the day" sequence where conveniently every single guy was absent so that they could all line up for a hero shot without them. That's the very definition of forced scenes
@@Dru2037 Gender swapping just cuz, etc. Not the best examples but Ghost and Task Master stand out to me. Now theres more female characters in the Thunderbolts roster than men. It was a choice, a weird one. I do like Ghost personally in the mcu but Taskmaster destroyed the character so bad. That was forced.
Women have been part of movies since the invention of the camera.
And there are more movies than ever before and tons of them still star and/or are made by women.
And plenty of them are really good.
A select number of Blockbusters or adaptations of popular IPs do NOT reflect the entire world of entertainment.
That’s just what people who have money to make off cultural tribalism want you to think (whether it be from the corporations themselves or from grifters).
Wolf children
Princess Mononoke
Nausicaä 1984
In the line of duty 4
Chocolate 2008
The shadow strays 2024
The villainess
Iron angels 1987
Wonder woman 2009
GL: Emerald knights
I've said it before, I'll say it again:
There's always been underlying messages, agendas, statements, etc,. in fillms.
The big difference is that before, the writers new how to weave these things into the stories thematically.
Now they let the story suffer because theyre too busy trying to bash the consumer over the head with their messsge firsthand.
Or is it a conspiracy to create an audience that watches the show and fight over the politics of the show/movie while the company earns money and could hire anyone off the streets to write shows as quality has little relevance
The word my high school English teacher used with pure derision was 'didactic'. Keeping things subtle or just posing a question rather than providing an answer prompts thought. It avoids needing to bend the narrative to support your conclusion. However, if you're a writer of fiction, I think there's some merit in painting an alien world and avoiding adhering to your own tastes. An alien world might be more alive, less pre processed. If you don't have an agenda, then you can't really fall into the trap of spoonfeeding your audience nutritional baby food ("here comes the airplane"). It can be insulting to the audience if your political theories are trite. If you had a film that spent two hours trying to convince an audience that women aren't the worst or which had the bold take 'racism is bad', your audience is be perplexed that your film is self righteously staging an intervention for them. They'll respond with "thanks. I was 5 minutes from committing a hate crime, but your staggering, artful work of moral clarity has stayed my hand. Can I name my first child in honor of you?"
The association with 'hollywood writer' now is someone with zero life experience who wouldn't know how to comport themselves outside LA. Show biz folk used to be regarded as something nearer to carnies and conmen. For instance, The defining figure of the first 50 years of the American film industry was likely Charlie Chaplin. I think his origins were absolutely dirt poor and by no means happy. If films had a moral message, it wasn't coming from someone who necessarily presumed themselves to be part of the enlightened virtual aristocracy talking down to the peasants. People are more receptive to conversations from someone who has the manner of an equal. Not a nanny saying "eat your porridge. it's good for you". Or, at least, that's my humble contention.
In the UK and australia, there are state broadcasters, whose aim was partially to engage in moral instruction. In both instances, they're sometimes referred to as 'Aunty' to convey the idea of some joyless figure who thinks it's their role to correct your grammar and manners. I don't see why Hollywood would want to adopt the role of some demented aunt.
@@krishnanandpremanand3581 you didn't understand the comment.
The problem is they're using cheap writers that don't know how to write.
@@Dru2037 … and because they don't know how to write, they really have zero idea of how to deliver a message subtly without insulting their audience's intelligence. Which is why it's so easy for anyone with one brain cell to detect when they're being preached to. Back in the day, X-Men delivered messaging about Civil Rights much more deftly and subtly to lead the audience to a logical conclusion, instead of beating them over the head with it.
One character both me (a guy) and my sisters loved was Selene from Underworld. She was strong badass but knew that she had her limits so she’d use weapons.
Selene still fell victim to the common gender tropes and stereotype in storytelling though. Now if you said Buffy The Vampire Slayer then I agree because the character was created with the express purpose of subverting the gender stereotypes and tropes that female character fall victim to.
@@gloriathomas3245 well dang, dude😓
WE LOVE YOU JB!! 🤘🏾❤️
Thanks again, Friendly Neighborhood JesterBell! Amazing shirt! I wrote a comment yesterday and just saw it didn't work but appreciate your work!
There's so many female characters that were appealing to women but then these "writers" and execs ruined them. HQ? Ruined. Wonder Woman? Ruined. Hawkgirl? Ruined. Lara Croft? Ruined. Ahsokha? Ruined. On and on and on, and it's not fair. The bar is so low at this point, and even then, we're still struggling to clear it.
Also the minority characters like Falcon, War Machine and Nick Fury
@@sincerelynotme3522 exactly how has Lara Croft been ruined.
Perhaps if you actually paid any attention to what Toby Gard, Adrian Heath-Smith, and Jeremy Heath-Smith, the people involved with the creation of the character have said about Lara since 1995 you see there's no problem with the character
@@gloriathomas3245 that's what I was about to ask and how is Hawkgirl ruined?
Yh we know u r far left, so what@@Dru2037
@@gloriathomas3245 yeah, I don't get this Lara Croft hate. Is it about that rise of the Tomb Raider games? I thought she was written fine there. She is suposed to be young and not as hardened as we saw her in previous games
She Hulk should have been a home run. The character has the visual appeal, comedic charm and a natural link to numerous other characters. They screwed up badly with that.
It was fun at times but man… 😬
we enjoy feminine and kind hearted female characters... they should just avoid writing the ones that are Insufferable and toxic Narcissists who think they are better than everybody else.. like that she hulk show
There should be all kinds of female characters. Feminine and cute, yes, beauty queen and housewife but also hardened and bitchy too. And toxic narcissists. And tomboys. And introverted loners. Problem is I want story to acknowledge a toxic b*tch if she is being a toxic b*tch to people. Not paint her as a hero standing up to patriarchy or a victim. And I want her to own her level of femininity (high or low) without being hated on by american left or right. And I don't want writers to surround her with weak stupid male characters to show how cool she is. Because that's who we are - different people with different stories. Just like men. Surprise. Not only guys should be allowed to have character and attitude. If you only want one female character to be copy pasted in every movie and tvshow you are no better than disney
Or, if the female hero is a raging narcissist, it should be protrayed as a character flaw, not something aspirational.
@@matthiasschulz3569 This makes me think of Avatar Korra. I don't want to be too harsh but a lot of times she did feel like a raging narcissist (in the layman sense, not NPD), and the show let her get away with it too often imo. They did acknowledge that she had flaws, but for the most part they tried to play it as her being spunky and determined. For example, she showed up to her bf's job (police station) and trashed his office in an unjustified woman-child tantrum and they acted like it was no big deal. She could have had an amazing character arc like Zuko if they had girl-bossed her a little less and let her own up to her flaws more consistently. Such a frustrating character.
i dont think people have a problem with the female super heroes. its the changes that were made on the female heroes. for example the race swapping and turning the female heroes gay or trans gender when its not related to the original stories.
You missed one important point, I think. The people trying to make action films that appeal to women, don't understand women.
Putting a female character in the lead role won't attract a female audience, but putting a shirtless Daniel Craig or Chris Hemsworth in a lead role will. Having a female character kick ass won't get women into the cinema, but include a romance somewhere in the mix and they'll come along for the ride. Make that romance a lesbian romance, and you've lost them again.
There are always exceptions, of course, but if you're hoping to attract women in any significant numbers (and not just appeal to a niche audience), you need to give women what the majority of them want, not what you think they SHOULD want.
Bro what in the everloving hell are you talking about, have you ever talked to a woman in your life?
@@iamjackspyramidshapedhelmet Every day. But you clearly haven't.
I agree with your points. I would add though that some of the problem is that there shouldn't be some bar of "greatness". There were plenty of shitty to average male characters who found their niche, or received better adaptations eventually, without having to be criticized immediately on the basis of their gender. I think it feels heavy handed because ultimately it is a male dominated space because thats the audience the medium has always been written to appeal to since forever. It's not a problem that's going to be solved overnight.
I think the real answer is people, really need to go back to letting people like what they like, and if something doesn't appeal to them they dont have to watch it. I think there's too many people trying to farm outrage by telling people "I dont like a thing and here's why you shouldn't either". Im sure we all have plenty of bad content that we've enjoyed, and everyone should be able to take those kinds of swings.
Majority of the fanbase don't have a problem with female leads in gaming and movie, they have a problem with the way it is done by injecting politics activism into it. The Kill Bill movies are my favorite which has a strong female lead and her story was brilliantly written. Activists keep injecting their ideology into things they're not truly fans of.
I like the shirt. Don't get hung up on feedback too much. You will always get complaints so stay true with yourself.
I make it a general rule at this point that if it’s a female character from Disney or Warner Brothers, odds are they’re gonna’ ruin it SOMEHOW.
I have the same bias now but it’s not a guarantee. As much as I think the Marvel comics version of Kamala Khan is lame (have only read like five issues of her original run and seen her in a bunch of guest appearances in other comics), I do think that the MCU one is a decent character, surprisingly. The performance is good and the she’s likable and a pretty solid character, aside from some stupid stuff with her powers and the bangles.
So, it is possible. I just hope we see more of that in the future. Also, they’ve ruined most of the new and old male characters too so it’s not just an issue with their female heroes.
I agree with you, but only from Disney! Warner Bros. knows how to do female characters better than Disney does, as long as they have the right people in charge for the right reasons, then yeah! They can make great female character that are strong and independent and brave but flawed without taking away from the male characters!
There's an editted version of the hobbit trilogy that gutted the entire character and love triangle plot (along with everything but 5min of the battle which was imo still 5 min too long) and it is the only watchable version. They took all the wizard side quests and oakshield backstory and re-editted it into a 50 min "histories" type video which was also a great place for it because it wasn't that I didn't enjoy the backstory world build...just not 2 movies of it.
I find that characters that appeal to women aren't written with the intention to appeal to women. The ones written to appeal to women also feel the need to denigrate the men because "muh feminism".
I think the difference is the seamless way these female characters went with the story. I can't help but feel that sometimes they overinflate these female characters purposely and bring male characters down. Which is terrible writing in this female's opinion. There's a difference between she kicks ass and god is she obnoxious.
I want to add a more nuaunced perspective from the other side.
As a man it is not a pleasant experience watching a movie, show, game, whatever, with a female lead for the past 10 years.
Anything outside of rewatching the first two Aliens movies I'm no longer interested in. Because I don't want to sit there for two hours anticipating when the next man bashing line of dialogue.
Sure there are female lead stories that don't do that these days but they're few and far between and even for those that aren't like that at all I don't find it relaxing to sit there guarded aginst some man hating garbage.
Good take
I like Tauriel as a guy, maybe I like her because of the video games and mods in BFME2. The romance can burn in hell thou.
The issue is with obligation. It shoukd be okay to have some stories with all men. Many war stories it's almost necessary to have no female characters, for example, and adding one in just to make it *not* all men would be dumb. It should also be ok to have stories with all women, to be clear, but that's rarely been an issue, though you could argue not *enough* of those have been made.
I grew up with Chris Claremont's X mutant books and Marv Wolfman's New Teen Titans in the 80s. They featured female action heroes long before they were in movies and they worked because they were complex, well written characters first.
If I had to summarize: what’s killing some of these franchises is a forced/inconsiderate insertion of ideas and characters to expand the audience range
Are you familiar at all with Japan's manga/anime categories? They separate them by target audiences. Shonen for teen males, Shojo for teen females, Seinen for young adult men, Josei for young adult women, etc. There are more but those are the major ones... seems to be a system that works well for them and is honest about our base interests.
Shonen seems to be the most popular and attracts both males as well as many females, but it's interesting to see the successes when they target their particular base audiences instead of trying to please everyone... ends up attracting all sorts of people regardless of group.
I only just discovered your channel but would be interesting to see you tackle that world of entertainment as well. A lot of western audiences are abandoning the comics & movies here in favor of eastern storytelling.
Just give me well written characters - male or female. Give me a plot with depth too. It can be done! Treat the source material with love and respect, no matter who the character is.
True dat, Jester! Also, nice black Spider-Man suit, it looks cool on you! I remember that that was in Spider-Man 3! That was a great movie, but the trilogy had wasted potential now that I know that they had cancelled plans for Spider-Man with Tobey but were unable to get him back, I think! That's sad to hear, 'cause I really liked his Spider-Man back then! He was great! Anyway, Happy Halloween! We just need Hollywood to make better movies instead of trying pander to woke weirdoes on social media, that's all!
Fantastic analysis! Keep it up!
I’m cautiously optimistic about the upcoming ‘Ballerina’ in the John Wick universe
Thanks for continuing to make these videos and remind people that the issue isn’t female heroes. I agree with most people that they’ve made a lot of annoying and shit ones that have become infamous in recent years but I have a lot of female characters in fiction that I love, so I hate that some people have begun to think that they can’t be done well in general or even just in certain franchises or stories.
I’ve never loved the notion of creating a character from X demographic to appeal to said audience demographic, because I really wish we were past that, but I dunno if that’s entirely fair and just because that’s a starting point doesn’t mean that that has to be the only appeal that character has going forward.
I just wish that they’d give them clear traits, have those traits matter and be taken seriously in the narrative and inform how they operate throughout the story (you know, basic character writing?), and not powerscale them out of the story because the idiot writing them simply thinks “bigger is better”.
Going forward, hopefully, we get some better heroes, in general (people tend to forget that they’ve been damaging the male heroes too through all of this) and we can move past this nonsense culture war stuff.
This was yet a other great Perpective. I like to hear from women in this space about stuff like this. Respect🤜🤛 ....from the Godz
This is why I tend to gravitate towards shoujo anime and been recommending shoujo anime to younger folks. It's not afraid or ashamed to lean into girl power and be well written (albeit kids shows like Pretty Cure are simplistic, but it doesn't mean that there's some valuable lessons and morals for all ages there). Also, merchandising is prettier.
She-Hulk was more made to register the trademark, or else some other publisher could come in and name a character that. Problem is you can’t just register a name with nothing tangible behind it.
Same with Spider-Woman.
There are many women who like guy stuff. Appealing to them is fine. But trying to appeal to women (or men!) who don't like guy stuff is the problem. Any attempt to control the demographics of your audience is bad.
Hit Girl was the standout in kickass, and she was loved. Today, they try to make every chick Hit Girl, and every dude kjckass. Kickass was a loser and inferior to her. Even so, the movie did not have a meaningful female audience or fan base. Action movies (that’s what superhero films are) will never attract a devoted female audience that can sustain the genre. There are more Barbies than Alitas.
Are you talking about Superbad or Kickass? Those are two completely different things.
@@thewatchman13 Sorry, Kickass. I'll fix, thx. I don't know why superbad was on my mind.
Not to call the point out too much, but you were right on with "These characters were good even though they were created to appeal to a more female audience." (not a quote, just the point made)
The difference is what the writers of the characters did with them after that initial goal. Batgirl was not "Batman but girl." She-Hulk was not "Hulk but girl." They were fully fleshed out characters with personalities and stories different than the male characters that spawned them. It didn't matter if there was corporate jockeying for trademarks or cynical pursuits of more money behind them, what mattered and what made them work or not work was what the final character was and how they appealed to audiences.
You are very brave trying to out a nuanced balanced look on social media. It will cause the algorithm- brain-washed masses to run to their silos and scream through their keyboards.
One of my favorite movies if the last 5 years was The Hunt. What a great female action lead.
Lead characters need to suffer/struggle to get to their goals. That is why The Last Kiss Goodnight is a great movie.
Keep up the good work. Fighting the corporate algorithm is hard.
There's no shortage of female characters.
There you go, applying logic and reason to Hollywood again. Actually expecting them to respect their audience....
Exactly👏love your shirt
The Ironic thing about Tauriel is that she is still far more likeable and a better character than Galadriel in ROP.
The big difference with the characters you've mentioned is the reason behind the reason of their creation. They might have been created to bring in more girls, BUT for commercial reasons and not for any SJW-agenda driven reasons. Therefore they where created to be part of an already existing brand, franchise and medium and not as something to challenge and fight this very franchise, brand or the comic medium as a whole. So doing something out of a mostly commercial agenda can actually be beneficial to a brand, or a franchise, because you would usually have to do the things that you do in a way that fans could appreciate. And even such an effort has a great potential to fail, but shoving agendas into everbodie's faces is absolutely bound to fail -and it obviously does so.
I grew up with female characters in movies and in comics and many of them are my favorite characters of all time. And I have a daughter that I've actually named after one of them. I don't need creators in any medium to lecture me. I just want interesting stories, strong characters and great artwork and maybe, just maybe a good point about how the real world works, or an idea how everything could be a little bit better.
PS: Just to be clear this is absolutely not against your channel. I'm certain you understand what I mean with the above.
Nice shirt! ❤
Unfortunately and unsurprisingly their side are terrible at listening
100% agree with you.
My wife wanted to watch two superhero movies: The Batman and Aquaman. I'm pretty eye the latter was for Jason Mamoa. Representation wasn't a factor. TBH, just making a film appeal more to a general audience will probably bring more women in.
I think I agree with you.
Might be I know of a ... parable(?) that kinda matches the issue here.
Scorpion and the fox? Or is it the turtle? I dunno, something that can ferry a scorpion, only gets stung because that's its nature.
If'n da CEO wants money but also has a pension for fan fics and kinks... welp, they might be a little in the middle, but Tremors still gets my middle going three decades later. Gotta spend money to make money and that awful scene with blind owl about snowmen... It is being spent wrong.
The big difference with those old characters and the new ones is that the old characters WERE NOT AFRAID OF THE MALE GAZE.
Those characters were basically Aquaman, but for men/boys. If you write/draw a character like that today it will be immensely successful.
Thank you!!!
People forget that characters like Wonder Woman wasn’t afraid of the male gaze even back in the 40’s.
Current Execs forget the the James Bond appeal, “Women want him and men want to be him.”
It goes for female characters too.
As long as it’s treated with respect.
I like that these titles sound as if she was talking to a kid, except that kid is Hollywood and all the issues stem from lacking common sense.
Like being sane is something strange nowadays among creatives.
It has become the default to reject female characters recently because of how badly they have been done during the MCU and and the star wars reboot some years back. I saw the trailer for Ballerina a week ago and I found it to be kinda cool despite not being into the John Wick franchise, but to no surprise people were trying to pass her off as a female John Wick rip off which I thought was unfair as the trailer clearly shows she does train to become quite a formidable character, and John Wick even appears at the end of the trailer as a way to show support for this new character.
I think if you can make a few ladies really shine in their roles then that should be enough regardless how many weaners are dominating the movie or TV show.🐱
People who are producing these films, are not interested in doing good work.
Your half right. As long as were talking Marvel it is poorly written characters but it is also trying to appeal to women. Comics is a boy brand but a couple of decades ago Marvel decided it wanted to be a girls brand. Thus came all new all different Marvel . Or kill all white male heroes and make them a minority and or female. Thus came Riri Williams who after Tony Stark died somehow had his armor, company, and was declared the greatest Ironman in all of history. The fact that she was poorly written didn't help. Of course there was always a place for women in comics. Carlol Danvers has been around since the 70's, she was just never more than a b treir character. She couldn't mantain her own title but was a welcome team addition or guest star. Then Marvel decided she would become the new face of the Marvel Universe and the greatest heroine in all the universe. The fact she was poorly written didn't help. She Hulk has waffled between a and b teir status, had multiple solo books and been on the two biggest teams in the Marvel Universe. The She Hulk tv show was not only badly written but wasn't a superhero show. And through it all Marvel has had one consistant message. You will love everything about our crap or your a sexist who should never be allowed to speak. Is it any wonder the audience has been conditioned to go female lead oh god not again.
I don't know. Reversing the equation might be interesting. If Hollywood decided they wanted to get men to watch romcoms or jane austen adaptations, they'd probably have limited room before they started to lose women. But you probably have a little wiggle room. You can make concessions that aren't turning your romcom into an action movie. For the record, as a dude, I'll admit to having watched romcoms voluntarily. Some I probably liked. But most made me want to claw at my skin. I'm still angry about Kate and Leopold (but god help me, I like Jackman's earlier romcom Paperback Hero at the time. I was young. you can't blame me for lapses in judgement.).
Wonderwoman with Gal Gadot seemed to make effective concessions to a female audience. But it gave the male characters things to do. They weren't pure subordinates and she had moments of being broken. It adjusted the costumes but didn't stick Diane in baggy clothing to make sure that men were thwarted. It was relatively affable. If you want precise things about Marvel's attempts at being more women-centric, I'd present Brie Larson. If they ditched her attitude problem and the weird fantasy in captain marvel of beating up some dude and humiliating him, then maybe men wouldn't despise Captain Marvel. Same way, when Doctor Who cast Jodie Whitaker, I think they gave her lines about her female form being an 'upgrade', where a previous male to female regeneration was accompanied by derisive remarks about male ego. I'm not sure dudes like making things more women-centric by adding a bucketload of contempt and sadism.
In terms of a line, I kinda defended Mandalorian season 3. If Pedro Pascal has one foot out the door, it made sense to have a secondary lead. And I like Katee Sackhoff. Working as a team didn't bother me. By contrast, I wouldn't argue with anyone who thought the Witcher season 3 had become the Ciri and Yennifer show.
Love that spider-man shirt! 😍
Do u remember where u got it?
I know this is specifically about comics, but we really dont give Star Wars the credit it deserves because its been so destroyed. Im talking Original Trilogy, here. Maybe Leia wasnt enough to hook a lot of girls in the 70's or 80's, but for girls in my generation (90's kids), she was and is still the tits (phrasing, sorry). Shes what I think of first when you say "well written strong female character" and she stands out from a lot of the action hero ones like Sarah Connor because shes strong without kicking all the boys' butts. She tells girls you dont have to try to be a man to be strong, which is not the sort of message we're getting these days.
Also thanks for bringing up Tariel and The Hobbit. I didnt even watch the third movie because the story had been screwed up so much by made up characters, characters that weren't even supposed to be there yet, and needless memberberries to the Lotr trilogy (those werent in the book because The Hobbit was written before Lotr, geniuses). I love the Hobbit (book) for what it is--I didnt need it to become a worse version of Lord of the Rings.
Even as a kid, I’ve absolutely LOVED girls. I love seeing them do all the cool fighting and whatnot in their cool outfits and all. I especially loved seeing Black Widow and always wished she had more screen time. I prefer to see women than men.
But because of how people are writing female characters these days, it makes me so disappointed to see any show or movie that centers a female lead cause I know that they’re going to be insufferable as hell. I wish people would stop trying to push some narrative that women are better than men while simultaneously making women in media exaggeratedly masculine with the worst masculine qualities (if that makes sense). These writers aren’t “helping” women; they’re destroying our image. I hope this changes
IPs other than Marvel and Star Wars have done wonderful work pushing women characters into the lead - arcane comes immediately to mind. Vi and Jinx are complicated, feminine, powerful, and sympathetic. It feels like recently too often women characters are written in as men with tits and the result is jarring to the audience.
If its not a 'girl brand', why do studios like Marvel give you mostly naked men while covering their females up fully and constantly? I feel like, again, you have misconstrued the original complaint.
ALSO - when people complain that media is 'too political' now, they mean social politics, not worldbuilding ones. Media used to make you think, not tell you WHAT to think. And writers now spell out their own politics, with no skill or subtlety and to the detriment of the story they are telling. Again, how have you missed this point?
Question: There’s a few copies of a compilation of Paul Dini’s Gotham City Sirens run (well, half of it) at my local college’s bookstore. Would you recommend that I pick it up? I think the concept of Harley, Ivy and Selina teaming up is fun and Dini’s really the only one who ever got Harley right, but I don’t know how it’d hold up on its own.
From my perspective, the prize mistake when writing female characters nowadays is that Hollywood often reduces strength to just combat and fighting. Now don't get me wrong, I do love a badass chick who can kick ass, but more often than not strength is best depicted when focused on intelligence, cunningness, resourcefulness, wit, and most importantly willpower.
One example I can think of is Meria Martell from the ASOIAF universe. She was the ruling princess of Dorne during Ageon's Conquest, and would continue to rule during his attempt to conquer her realm. She even defied his sister Rhaenys openly when confronted by her, here's the excerpt:
"Finally the queen’s flight took her to Sunspear, the ancient seat of House Martell, where she found the Princess of Dorne waiting in her abandoned castle. Meria Martell was eighty years of age, the maesters tell us, and had ruled the Dornishmen for sixty of those years. She was very fat, blind, and almost bald, her skin sallow and sagging. Argilac the Arrogant had named her “the Yellow Toad of Dorne,” but neither age nor blindness had dulled her wits.
“I will not fight you,” Princess Meria told Rhaenys, “nor will I kneel to you. Dorne has no king. Tell your brother that.”
“I shall,” Rhaenys replied, “but we will come again, Princess, and the next time we shall come with fire and blood.”
“Your words,” said Princess Meria. “Ours are Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. You may burn us, my lady… but you will not bend us, break us, or make us bow. This is Dorne. You are not wanted here. Return at your peril.”
Thus queen and princess parted, and Dorne remained unconquered." - Fire and Blood, 2018
Thank you.
If you want an example of good written female character for your story, just watch The X files. They already done it years ago.
"Modern" writers try to make female characters "strong" by having them physically, mentally, and emotionally dominate men. That is unnatural, unrealistic, and unappealing because it misses the essence of women, femininity.
Ellen Ripley from "Alien" is a fantastic strong, yet feminine, female character. She has command demeanor appropriate to a second officer and is respected. She mostly follows orders, but rightly questions her male superior's decision to bring the alien lifeform onboard. She keeps her head, though terrified, and finds a way to survive with her courage and intelligence. What she does NOT do is try to dominate men.
Men are not at war with women, and view them as complementary, necessary, and wonderful life partners. Women at war with men will never have broad appeal in films. It doesn't make sense.
There are women in real life who can dominate most men. Unless I hallucinated Gina Carano. What do you mean by "unnatural" or "unrealistic?"
What do you mean by "femininity" exactly? The essence? Women aren't a hive, they don't have an "essence."
As for Ellen Ripley. I've heard her and Sarah Connor being hauled around a lot. Who else but them is a worthy strong female character.
Eh… As long as it's sci-fi and not overdone, it shouldn't be a problem.
I never understood why people like manipulative bad guys, like Venom, Joker, Poison ivy, i hate these guys, but people genuinely like them, are y'all nuts?
People can enjoy characters they don't morally approve of.
Because they make the story more interesting. A hero is only as good as his villain.
Bot!
Great vid thanks.
I think the problem is that the current show runners dislike the built-in audience. I think it's a very heavy-handed statement about who's in control and who isn't. I think it's pretty clear that activists got control of popular franchises and are using them to make a statement. I think if you're talking about "making shows more appealing to women," you're falling for their con.
Batgirl was not created to make Batman 66 more popular with women... she was created to be eye candy for men.
That's not true. She was created for DC to hold the "Batgirl" name under their copyrights.
@@MauZangetsu okay let me rephrase that: DC created her for copyrights, show added her for eye candy
I agree
The 17 women in my life, that are my relatives, friends, and colleagues. Only watched superhero movies or sci-fi movies, or as they call them "guys stuff". When there is a really good-looking guy, a trendy actress like zendaya in Dune, or some tumblr ship like reylo in star wars, ewwww of my part but they like that.
No offense, but maybe the 17 women in your life are kinda shallow and don't represent all women.
That isn't to say "Sci fi should be taken away from men!"
Just that a lot of women really do like sci-fi, more or less as it is without being forced to "appeal to a female audience" (but really appealing to no one).
I know it doesn t get the same amount of views. But you could make some videos of stuff you like, to balance more controversial videos.
Why would people be mad? It's true lol no notes
The problem are not women, the problem is the DEI team trying to make androgynous beings without gender and trying to pass them as women to the audience. Women have breasts, have large hips, butt, and are feminine. That’s real and natural. Like the Catwoman in Dark Knight Rises: she is a complex and serious character being a normal woman at the same time.
I’m sorry, but have you met women before? Like real women?
This is like saying all men have huge jaws and Peter Parker is a femboy.
Like, women have diversity in bodies like men do. We even assigned fruit to body shapes.
That’s why I like Arcane, personally. They got the Banana shaped Jinx, and the strawberry Vi, and the Pretty hourglass Caitlyn. All interpretations of their strengths and characters.
Super Heroes would not all be busty women, despite the comics covers. That would be hell.
Jenna awesome pink rangers from time Force
Oh no, Jesterbell gave her honest and thoughtful opinion that disagrees with mine! Quick! Call her a shill or something!
Seriously, thank you for this. In particular, I am glad you mentioned that politics in films is not an inherent problem, just how it is applied.
Look at shows like The New Norm...it is hilarious how conservatives basically did the very thing they criticise the Left for, just for different political beliefs. Yet the Original Ghosbusters could be considered classic pro-Capitalism in many ways and is still such an iconic film!
They did a mediocre job with Batgirl 66. She was mainly the damsel in distress.
that previous Black Widow film should have been epic but it was a trainweck,fans want well written female characters minus the gender swapping 🤔
@@skepticalsmurf also what they did to Taskmaster should be a crime. I was so excited to see him too.😭
@@ToxicVex267/ man.....the pandemic" fucked that movie up, that movie came out, in (2021), in the heart of the pandemic", why you think it went to (Disney+) fast as hell"
@@ToxicVex267 you basically did, because the actress who "portrayed" the character did ZERO of the stunts, all the stunts were done by a man, UNCREDITED despite having more screen time than the actress.....
@@Blazeyatesother movies had zero issues during the pandemic, so that excuse doesn't fly. The main reason was it was a decade too late and the character was already dead in the MCU so the movie was completely pointless 🤷♂️
Also, side note, if we say pandemic ruined box office, then surely that means everyone was staying in and watching stuff instead? So surely it would have done immensely well on streaming, no?
@@A.Person...Maybe... / it did do well on streaming....., if you think the (pandemic") didn't make a difference in (2021) on movies, then you gotta be "snorting Ajaks" or some!!
What's your thoughts on the Dune: Prophecy trailer?
Imo, I didn't think Captain Marvel was bad. it's just the actor didn't know how to be quiet and started to talk down on a group of people. I really liked when she appeared in Endgame. If she let her work do the talking which it was since her movie made a billion, I think she would've been okay or at least look in a nice light.
1st movie was kinda boring and cringe at moments. It's just a very forgettable movie. The 2nd movie was even more boring and it had terrible characters added in.
personally for me it wasn't that great a storyline. Her movie could be easily skipped on rewatch. the only purpose her movie served was a backstory so when Danvers showed up we didn't go who the hell was that and her powers were understandable for the scenes.
I think her attitude irl did rub a lot of ppl the wrong way with brie, but I also don't think captain marvel was a very good film. Brie's acting just wasn't very good and it felt like she played Captain marvel as kinda like this "I'm better than you" character which was kinda annoying to watch. Idk what happened with her tho bc I thought she was a fine actress in other movies, but not when she's playing Captain marvel
You mean that billion that was only made because Disney had to buy seats themselves 😂
@@Drums_of_Liberation I heavily doubt that.
Jester, you have to understand that making something more appealing to a demographic requires a special touch. You need either a thorough insider (i.e. a woman writing the story) or someone who can bridge the gap (practically anybody who can identify common ground).
I can write a "together they fight crime" buddy-cop superhero noir with a very basic hook and surreal twist. All it takes is a little assumption about one guy and a stark observation about a whole group. In this case: someone with Asperger's Syndrome and liberal guilt at large, white skin color optional, respectively.
Babs Gordon had a brief few years of childhood in Cleveland, where she met a socially awkward dunce her exact age named Jean-Paul. Johnny was picked on for being strange, but he understood Babs better than practically anyone and the feeling was mutual. Their friendship had one rule of boundaries: no peeking inside his ramshackle house.
Babs did so anyway and saw the strange setup used to sleep-train Jean-Paul. It was shocking enough that she scrubbed it from her memory, save the fact that she was caught and had a brief one-on-one with the maid and caretaker--who turns out to be the grim reaper, a goth chick and one of the Endless (she's basically Jean-Paul's mother figure).
Years later, after having gone separate ways forcefully, Babs finally tracks down Jean-Paul at Gotham U's technology department. She has researched the Sacred Order of St. Dumas a whole lot and hopes to be the one who deprograms him. Now, with his father slain after a botched attempt on a gun runner's life, Jean-Paul is summoned to the Swiss Alps. Babs gives chase as Batgirl.
However, despite her use of civilian and costumed guises, Jean-Paul is too instinctive a genius to fall for either and insists that she go home. Contrary to expectations, when Nomoz finally gets him to don the suit of Azrael, the order to "kill the lady" ends up with the guy extinguishing his restrained awkwardness and flat-out hitting on her almost shamelessly so
Babs refuses to leave, but refuses to entertain Azrael's comeons. Over the course of what comes next she, as "DEVILGIRL", reels in the otherwise hyperviolent enforcer of the Lord, while he manages to keep her alive against the sort of harsher threats otherwise reserved for the big players in Gotham such as Batman, Ragman and Starman (yes, Starman is originally from Gotham, deal with it).
They come to be known as "Knight & Dame" because they, unlike most of Gotham's vigilante circuit, operate 24/7, unafraid to work with police or to cultivate a cult of personality among the kids who congregate near a waning arcade center run by their cantankerous financier, a former member of the Sandman division, himself an Aspie with no social filter.
The idea is that Babs thinks she has to deprogram Jean-Paul from his faith and keep him from bad influences, while there are plenty of influences on her end that, intentions besides, might get her killed. She's an adrenaline junkie and slowly disillusioned over her impact on the crime wave, while he's sick of not having adventure or purpose as well as being shortchanged by every liberal poser on campus.
They're Aspies who pretty much need one another, but are perfect foils for each other. The gig is that Jean-Paul is a film noir hero and Babs the femme fatale, leading him to his doom as per the trope--even though doom in this context isn't necessarily horrible or even undesirable. It's still film noir, even with its comedic edge, as it is a crime saga illustrated like an avantgarde horror comic complete with horror hostess (i.e. Death of the Endless) and routine flashbacks between present day and contextual past events.
One of the recurring themes is that Batgirl & Azrael are stupidly bad at communicating with the public, or even in one-on-one settings. Poison Ivy gets them both to a fair degree, but they eat foot too often to be seen as serious contenders--just a curious anomaly in the crime-fighting circuit. This after Wonder Woman becomes a quintessential burger-flipper, no doubt.
The aim of this setup is to demonstrate the wide girth between Aspies (I've always thought Babs & Jean-Paul are dead-ringers) and the general public. It'll be hard to keep it from devolving into stereotypes or making it into the only theme we ever see in every episode, but it'll appeal to women because Jean-Paul is forthright and Babs is keen. Men will like it because Jean-Paul is committed and Babs is approachable. In short, people will see there are powerful qualities that Aspies have, which includes their disconnected social status.
And that's how you do diversity. You have to make their makeup posit an actual conflict instead of being a key for solving every issue.
lol the stay to source meterial there are great women in the Marvel verse with and with out powers, problem is the concept of science and evolution that is what Marvel verse is really about how society come with it
Like it or not, because of the failures within Marvel, and Star Wars, and the random attempts to do similar things elsewhere, all attempts at diversity and inclusion will be viewed the same way. What came before doesn't matter.
I disagree with that statement. If that was the case then the fallout 4 TV show wouldn't have been a success or even the arcane show
Either . Diversity is actually really simple you just treat it like a normal thing and you just have people just shut up and stop talking about what they believe and how very diverse and so on and so forth.
I can never understand why people keep making the quality of female characters a modern phenomenon.
Historically female characters have never been treated great in fiction and its a situation not just limited to movies or TV shows, but also in literature.
If you want to talk about just TV shows and movies then Hollywood has a very long history of blackballing female characters with terrible writing and anybody who is a actual fan of cinema would tell you tell you this outside of a few instances where you have writers/creatives like Joss Whedon, Brad Wright or Tracy Torme who elevate the status of female characters by writing them very good and in some cases giving the female actors a say in how their characters develope or are portrayed. Amanda Tapping for example was given a great degree of control by Wright over how her Stargate SG1 character was portrayed.
Beyond that I don't like how videos like this make the issues with female characters to be a recent thing without examining the history of the issue.
The way they are created and the way they're talked about changes over time and it's perfectly fine to focus on the current era without going off on historical tangents
@@ashhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Again this isn't a modern thing and people that are making so are clearly agenda driven.
@@ashhhhhhhhhhhhhhhFemale characters have historically been treated poorly period.
@@gloriathomas3245 What's a modern phenomenon is the surge of female leads in action sci-fi… it's true that female characters have traditionally never been great, but the great writers usually wrote great female heroes, like Sarah Connor or Ripley… now when they're creating more content featuring female leads, the bigger task falls on worse talent who don't know how to do it.
@@vitreo1363 first and foremost Sarah Conner and Ripley are terrible female characters because they still playing to gender tropes and stereotypes unlike a character like Buffy that breaks free of them.
Beyond that speaking as a man (I'm using my mom's name) I have absolutely no problem with the surge in female action roles/characters as people like Joss Whedon, Brad Wright and Tracey Torme have written some of the best female characters, but importantly ones that do not conform to tropes or stereotypes.
The trick is to just stop trying to appeal to women entirely.
Ignoring more than half the population of Earth? That's not gonna cut it.
If they wanted romance in the hobbit movies they should've just made Bilbo and Thorin quietly gay. You've already got years of gay hobbit jokes, just lean into it. 111+ year old confirmed bachelor in a house full of doilies and stuff? Meet the famous lord with no prospects from a race of mostly men who needs someone to care about him.
That would have been worse!
@@biguy617 Why? It makes logical sense, and Thorin already dies in his arms. They already have touching moments where they embrace. I'm not saying they should be making out, I'm just saying it's the romance that would have made sense to the product.