What do you think about the 8 series? Better than an S Class, LC500, etc? Also thanks to our early video access Patreon supporters Michael H, Somark L, Sean R, Oliver U, Arthur E, David C, Israel C, Luke M, De Kun L, James M, Julian M, Graeme P, Ethan L, Charles E, Pavo B, LeaseCosts Canada, Edgarson R, Ryan J, Kevin D, Allen G, Andrew R, Joe, Waleed M, Hyogo M, Omar, J, Matt W, Bill B, Kelvin K, Carlos L, Forrest W, Kevin S, Brad M, 10ShapedFist, Phuong N, Santhosh B, Peter S, MK, Andy B, Casey A, Rob J, Andrew L, Jayjay S, Christopher K, Artur N, Alexander M, Edward A, Carlin M, Pablo O, Kevin J, Jim G, Kirk H, Brylon E, Glenn K, James S, Rohit S, Grant H, Henry K, Sean F, Kim H, Joel P, larusso, Dallon H, Nealon Y, Giliar D, Matthew G, John D, Devin B, Eric W, Brian H, Fei D, Chad S, Cameron P, Nelson C, Eric Z, Griffin O, Daniel R, James B, Doanh L, Aaron B, Armel M, Jordan R, David, Maciej S, Nihilia, Geoffrey G, Jeff M, Christopher B, David G, Thomas B, Diondi T, Brendan T, Owen Q, jj, Andersen G, Aaron A, Idean N, Wesley M, Jin L, John S, SY, Jessie Z, Jordan S, Special K, Victor L, Logan S, Michael G, Brett, Justin O, Darren J, Noel M, Scott G, Chris B, Chan T, Aaron M E, Alexander R, Charlie P, Mickel, Siu C, Andrew G, Tyler S, Kevin W, Matt O'C, Nik L, Ahsan U, Theo E, Dylan P, Melissa N, Joshua B, 6ixSet Toronto, Nawraz B, Joe W, Im_Justin, Loren K, Scott A, Tyler K, Andrew, Wesley T, Jacob C, Kevin W, Will B, Jon B, Ajay J, Evan D, Fabio S, Ben's Car Blog, Josh S, Peter G, arkon, Matt C, Tejawn H, Shawn A, Joseph B, Artur N, Robert J! Check out the cool rewards at www.patreon.com/thestraightpipes
It looks like a Mustang, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The S Class and Lexus are much more striking and luxurious. That's the thing with BMW though, by default they are more luxurious sports cars (ie the gentleman's racer) not to be confused with a luxury car. Yes BMW makes a luxury car, but that's not their identity.
Freight trains are slow, they are long and heavy, literally a mile or more long. Passenger trains are only a dozen coaches max (at least here in Canada). So if you have say 12 coaches attached to one, or two 2 engines (7000+ horsepower with 2) you will be pulling fast and hard ;)
LC is amazing looking, sounds great, interior too delicate and wears badly with daily use, and the info tech is ancient and hard to use. Underrated and overhyped at the same time…
These guys seriously are the best car review channel on UA-cam. Beautiful cinematic shots. Unique twist on reviewing cars (visor test), use a lot of personal feedback which is great considering they have driven so many cars. Good job guys your doing great!
You guys really know how to review a car. You talk about exactly the things we (potential buyers) really care about and want to consider. You are amazing at reviewing new cars and models. THANK YOU!
I love your reviews. I actually like when you review cars that the average person could afford, but these quasi-supercars are nice to watch too. More importantly, I am really craving a review on which car has the best autonomous features. Which has the best LKA, Adaptive Cruise, Stop and go or only down to 30mph etc... Thanks guys and keep up the awesome work.
My girlfriend was scrolling on kijiji, I glanced over and saw an ad at the bottom with you two in it! I'm happy to see the strides you guys are making. As a relatively early subscriber I feel some sense of pride in you fellas.
Great review. So many details... Love all the visuals! To me, I see the i8 influence in the rear roofline a bit. Seems crazy fast and more torques the HPs... That says fun to me.
Love your fun and informative videos for a long time now, but the drone shot of the snowy doughnut gave me a big, big smile, cheers guys from Vienna, Austria, ... and don't forget the visor test!!
So they axed the six series that apparently wasn't selling well enough to replace it with a 2020 looking 6 series and raised the price substantially 🤔🤔
So a 2018 BMW 6 series gran coupe with less than 10,000 miles will probably be $60,000. The certified BMW as well as the certified luxury market is where you’ll see me then.
I think colour is a big determinant with looks on these. The M should add the needed aggressive cues. I must be getting into the heart of their target demographic because this 8 really appeals to me. Both your cars look good with those wheels, funny how it works with cars from opposite ends of the spectrum.
M50B25 Turbo I get early accesss to the videos on Patreon. Normally is only a few days in advance, but I think the guys have been travelling a ton in the last few weeks.
One of those special channels that I'm always rooting for. That I'm checking the subscriber count every time I watch a video. You guys are truly talented. You'll get your Million, and more. It will happen before you know it. And you will have earned every bit if your success. Cheers!
The performance and most of the technology seem great. The misses are the exhaust and gauges, why is BMW adopting that ugly cluster for all their cars?
Always loved the big coupes of BMW. This might not be as iconic as the original 8 Series but it does alot better than an S class coupe imo. Despite that, definitely love the M850i overall. Can't wait for your takes on the upcomin' M8. Great work guys as always 👌👌
Way better than cheesy black plastic or BMW's previous sex toy looking electronic shifter. Manufacturers are trying to do things different. I don't hate the shifter or the buttons, it adds pop to what would otherwise feel like a plain BMW center console.
One of these pulled up beside me the other day, first time I've seen one irl. It's honestly pretty wild looking, probably one of the crazier things BMW has come out with. That being said I really want to test drive one lol
I follow you guys because you tell the truth and given your demographic, I really appreciate that. Regarding this class of car; it’s an evolution of the GT car from the 50’s , mainly Ferrari’s and Jaguars. In North America it was the Ford Thunderbird, Corvette or the Cadillac Eldorado. My dad had a 1965 Buick Riviera which was the equivalent of this vehicle back then. Today , I’d seriously consider this car as a second car; the first being an SUV. Good review guys. I like the drive along the routes you take, especially cliche corner on the way to the golf course.
Very good review, good impression and detailed - watch till the end for the "real tests". But this car doesnt do it for me. Saw a camo tester on the Autobahn last year and knew it wasnt right. BMW's 2,3,5,7 series and X3, X5 are great but the 4,6 the GTs and now 8 just fall apart in styling and usage. I'd stick with the E63 wagon anyday for that money.
@@diogobotelho5141 Good idea as I think it might get polarizing. Seeing as I can't afford it either way, my complaining was silly, but it's still an odd '1970s-ish' choice for a shifter.
It's my birthday today and wake up to video on a car I've been dying to see and I got it 😂👌 love it awesome car I just wish BMW would fix their exhaust sounds like compared to AMG turbo cars they sound terrible
@@aqwplayer222 thank you and they just sound so beautiful the people at AMG deserve a raise on how great they make turbo v8 engines sound without using artificial sounds
The piano black completely undercuts that shifter, which is sublime. Just put carbon fibre around it, it's an BMW 8 Series - the buyer's not gonna blink at that extra charge.
Wow that interior is actually very underwhelming. It's simple which is good to some people but I feel like it just doesn't compete with the S-class or LC-500
@@hassanger8128 each to their own i guess. But I agree with thestraightpipes on this. It does look like an upsized 3-series interior, especially the center stack of infotainment controls. The 8 series outperforms both of them but the compromise between sport and luxury is definitely obvious in the interior
First off - You dont do a full beard without the mustache. Makes you look like a garden gnome. Now with that out of the way - Flippin' awesome video as always , guys!:)
BMW's got this colour for they call "Barcelona Blue" which gives the car that perfect GT aura. Lexus LC500 I'd like to see a review of that. There's a widebody LC500 GT kitted by Artisan Spirit.
I was thinking this was my new favorite car but you talked about LC500h in the end and I was naaaaah! LC500h is one of my favorite cars ever for sure. Please review one soon.
BMW should have made the 8 series a lot more luxurious almost like a "lower level" Rolls Royce interior and yet have the same driving characteristics that it currently has. Then they could easily out compete the S coupe and Aston Martin IMHO
What do you think about the 8 series? Better than an S Class, LC500, etc?
Also thanks to our early video access Patreon supporters Michael H, Somark L, Sean R, Oliver U, Arthur E, David C, Israel C, Luke M, De Kun L, James M, Julian M, Graeme P, Ethan L, Charles E, Pavo B, LeaseCosts Canada, Edgarson R, Ryan J, Kevin D, Allen G, Andrew R, Joe, Waleed M, Hyogo M, Omar, J, Matt W, Bill B, Kelvin K, Carlos L, Forrest W, Kevin S, Brad M, 10ShapedFist, Phuong N, Santhosh B, Peter S, MK, Andy B, Casey A, Rob J, Andrew L, Jayjay S, Christopher K, Artur N, Alexander M, Edward A, Carlin M, Pablo O, Kevin J, Jim G, Kirk H, Brylon E, Glenn K, James S, Rohit S, Grant H, Henry K, Sean F, Kim H, Joel P, larusso, Dallon H, Nealon Y, Giliar D, Matthew G, John D, Devin B, Eric W, Brian H, Fei D, Chad S, Cameron P, Nelson C, Eric Z, Griffin O, Daniel R, James B, Doanh L, Aaron B, Armel M, Jordan R, David, Maciej S, Nihilia, Geoffrey G, Jeff M, Christopher B, David G, Thomas B, Diondi T, Brendan T, Owen Q, jj, Andersen G, Aaron A, Idean N, Wesley M, Jin L, John S, SY, Jessie Z, Jordan S, Special K, Victor L, Logan S, Michael G, Brett, Justin O, Darren J, Noel M, Scott G, Chris B, Chan T, Aaron M E, Alexander R, Charlie P, Mickel, Siu C, Andrew G, Tyler S, Kevin W, Matt O'C, Nik L, Ahsan U, Theo E, Dylan P, Melissa N, Joshua B, 6ixSet Toronto, Nawraz B, Joe W, Im_Justin, Loren K, Scott A, Tyler K, Andrew, Wesley T, Jacob C, Kevin W, Will B, Jon B, Ajay J, Evan D, Fabio S, Ben's Car Blog, Josh S, Peter G, arkon, Matt C, Tejawn H, Shawn A, Joseph B, Artur N, Robert J! Check out the cool rewards at www.patreon.com/thestraightpipes
Hi
Looks like a Kia.
much sportier than the S-class coupe and much better looking IMO
I think losing the sliding visors are now becoming a new car trend for Germans
It looks like a Mustang, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The S Class and Lexus are much more striking and luxurious. That's the thing with BMW though, by default they are more luxurious sports cars (ie the gentleman's racer) not to be confused with a luxury car. Yes BMW makes a luxury car, but that's not their identity.
As a locomotive engineer, I can assure you that this car pulls like a passenger train, not a freight train;)
You better not be lying about being a locomotive engineer because we hearted your comment
Canadians don't lie, I would especially never lie to thestraightpipes!
i'm genuinely curious. can u please explain the difference? sorry i dont know much about trains other than the NY subway system
Freight trains are slow, they are long and heavy, literally a mile or more long. Passenger trains are only a dozen coaches max (at least here in Canada). So if you have say 12 coaches attached to one, or two 2 engines (7000+ horsepower with 2) you will be pulling fast and hard ;)
Wow thanks for explaining!!!
Jakub's moustache appearing and disappearing between videos is tripping me out.
They remove it with cgi
I think he needs to grow the stache and stick with it! Neckbeards are not a good look.
Lol finally someone figured out that the videos we post aren't in order of when we filmed them
Haha all of you are dumb
The power of puberty...
The styling on the l concept version was sick. Ofcourse they always tune them down for the regular models. Wait for the M8
I totally agree with you on that. The steering wheel on that looked soooo good.
I heard that concept was actually for the M sport version so when that comes out it’ll look more like the concept
If you compare every manufacturers, BMW production cars aren't that far off from their concepts
u wot m8?
Holy crap that side shot DOES look just like a Mustang. A German Mustang!
overpriced german mustang
IT is a lot bigger than a Mustang.
And from the back it looks like a cheap Camero
sure does
Issa stretched Infiniti Q60
True OGs watched till the end and saw the visor test
same best people evre i love them
Can’t lie, those wheels look sick! 🙌🏼
This thing is BEAUTIFUL in my eyes.
nowthatsurban same here
Jacob looks like the evil brother of Wolverine in X-men: Origins.. "Victoooooooor!!!"
Lol
LMAO
Wolverine with 5 kids on a farm in Lancaster, PA
Lexus LC 500 still takes the cake for me, can't beat the sound and feel of a 5.0 NA V8
Ab175 and in my opinion, it looks way better.
That's right if you're not gonna take it to the race track.
LC is amazing looking, sounds great, interior too delicate and wears badly with daily use, and the info tech is ancient and hard to use. Underrated and overhyped at the same time…
getting a used one with 17000 miles. MSRP 130,000 us$, now $57 K. Thanks, depreciation!!
These guys seriously are the best car review channel on UA-cam. Beautiful cinematic shots. Unique twist on reviewing cars (visor test), use a lot of personal feedback which is great considering they have driven so many cars. Good job guys your doing great!
0:02 IM TELLING XZIBIT YALL RUINED HIS SONG “X” with that Wackass knockoff 😂
The crystal gear lever looks surprisingly good IRL.
What I like best about you guys, is that you put out the Horsepower and torque right off the bat 😉
Another review by people who will never own the car for people who also will never own the car. Great job as always, love your channel.
You guys really know how to review a car. You talk about exactly the things we (potential buyers) really care about and want to consider. You are amazing at reviewing new cars and models. THANK YOU!
Thanks!
You guys havn't reviewed the new Z4 yet!! Pester BMW Canada for one of those come on guys!
The new 8-series look so good
Can’t wait for M8!
That rip off instrumental of Xzibit X was awesome at the start
I had to do it to em
@@TheStraightPipes Only the real thugs know..shoutout Xzibit
whoa whoa, its called a cover ;)
Scott storch
Hi everyone. Regarding the track/tune, I know the original is X by Xzibit. Please what's the title of this 'remix' instrumental version? Thanks.
The fact that you guys say 0-100 “km/h” makes me so happy
As soon as I clicked on the video, I noticed I was smiling..... Love you BMW 8 series, welcome back after 20 years
I love your reviews. I actually like when you review cars that the average person could afford, but these quasi-supercars are nice to watch too.
More importantly, I am really craving a review on which car has the best autonomous features. Which has the best LKA, Adaptive Cruise, Stop and go or only down to 30mph etc...
Thanks guys and keep up the awesome work.
My wish list for you guys to test:
LC500 (long over due)
Mazda 3 SKYACTIV X hatchback in Soul red crystal
Supra
Alpine A110
eug3nius i don’t think it’s in north america
LC500 baby!
VW Jetta
Also a 94 Toyota Celica GT with a 5 speed
it launch so fast it gives Yuri a second chin
fachrie andika asian people iya!!!
My girlfriend was scrolling on kijiji, I glanced over and saw an ad at the bottom with you two in it! I'm happy to see the strides you guys are making. As a relatively early subscriber I feel some sense of pride in you fellas.
Haha awesome
Wow those superspeeds are lit. Glad u got another sponsor. You guys deserve it.
I really loved your "tag team" reviewing style. It was very entertaining to watch.
Thank you very much
Nice that you included the very important visor test
I can't believe you guys haven't hit a million subs yet , great vid as always keep it up!
LC500 any day. That v8 is a gem and the car looks stunning.
roKr55 True. But ppl cares about number more than reliability and build quality.
Wade H you also forgot the badge
Fuck Lexus and their boring reliable cars.
@@andeleputo89 Said no one ever
Great review. So many details... Love all the visuals! To me, I see the i8 influence in the rear roofline a bit. Seems crazy fast and more torques the HPs... That says fun to me.
Looks like from the outside that BMW really admires the Mustang styling!
Love your fun and informative videos for a long time now, but the drone shot of the snowy doughnut gave me a big, big smile, cheers guys from Vienna, Austria, ... and don't forget the visor test!!
This car is so stunning !
I am broke af but still watch each and every video u guys upload😂😂😂
So they axed the six series that apparently wasn't selling well enough to replace it with a 2020 looking 6 series and raised the price substantially 🤔🤔
😂😒
The six series looked better inside and outside, especially the cabriolet.
yes lol
So a 2018 BMW 6 series gran coupe with less than 10,000 miles will probably be $60,000. The certified BMW as well as the certified luxury market is where you’ll see me then.
I think colour is a big determinant with looks on these. The M should add the needed aggressive cues. I must be getting into the heart of their target demographic because this 8 really appeals to me. Both your cars look good with those wheels, funny how it works with cars from opposite ends of the spectrum.
Video was just posted but comment is 2 weeks old WTF
@@davissilvestrs1996 The review has been on their Patreon page for a couple of weeks. There are other unreleased reviews on there.
M50B25 Turbo I get early accesss to the videos on Patreon. Normally is only a few days in advance, but I think the guys have been travelling a ton in the last few weeks.
X to Z xzibit .The intro music
The first day of rest of my life
One of those special channels that I'm always rooting for. That I'm checking the subscriber count every time I watch a video. You guys are truly talented. You'll get your Million, and more. It will happen before you know it. And you will have earned every bit if your success. Cheers!
Thanks so much
The performance and most of the technology seem great. The misses are the exhaust and gauges, why is BMW adopting that ugly cluster for all their cars?
Always loved the big coupes of BMW. This might not be as iconic as the original 8 Series but it does alot better than an S class coupe imo. Despite that, definitely love the M850i overall. Can't wait for your takes on the upcomin' M8. Great work guys as always 👌👌
These crystal shifters are super tacky, especially in sport cars & grand tourers
Way better than cheesy black plastic or BMW's previous sex toy looking electronic shifter. Manufacturers are trying to do things different. I don't hate the shifter or the buttons, it adds pop to what would otherwise feel like a plain BMW center console.
08:47 use slow motion video to show the traction difference is EXCELLENT !
Finally a good looking BMW after a long time
Can’t wait for the M8!
Wow Yuri forgot to say “Canadian” after the price, first time:)
No way. Did I?
Jakub's Lexus would of looked really nice with the RF01 wheels from their sponsor. Oo well keep up the good videos.
Yeah I love those wheels but I personally didn't want 19's for winter. Would be great for summer
One of these pulled up beside me the other day, first time I've seen one irl. It's honestly pretty wild looking, probably one of the crazier things BMW has come out with. That being said I really want to test drive one lol
I follow you guys because you tell the truth and given your demographic, I really appreciate that. Regarding this class of car; it’s an evolution of the GT car from the 50’s , mainly Ferrari’s and Jaguars. In North America it was the Ford Thunderbird, Corvette or the Cadillac Eldorado. My dad had a 1965 Buick Riviera which was the equivalent of this vehicle back then. Today , I’d seriously consider this car as a second car; the first being an SUV. Good review guys. I like the drive along the routes you take, especially cliche corner on the way to the golf course.
Because there is no clear space in between the kidney grill it almost looks like a Kia grill at first glance
Alex's Customs big fax
LC500 or S class coupe hands down for this segment. The BMW is fast but lacking any soul.
Very good review, good impression and detailed - watch till the end for the "real tests". But this car doesnt do it for me. Saw a camo tester on the Autobahn last year and knew it wasnt right. BMW's 2,3,5,7 series and X3, X5 are great but the 4,6 the GTs and now 8 just fall apart in styling and usage. I'd stick with the E63 wagon anyday for that money.
You just hit the nail in the head with that mustang comment, I have a mustang gt 2017 and thought “that kinda looks like my car”
I love you guys so much. Greetings from India ❤️❤️ keep up the great work you always brighten my day guys
Thanks for not doing an overly gushing review (6 series GC owner in a past life). It's not clear how this is a step up from the 6.
I think the problem your tester doesn’t have big enough rims
I saw an 8series on the road the other day, was shocked how pretty it was in person.
NOT a fan of that crystal shifter. It looks like something Liberace would have in his car, or my grandmother.
Clark W it’s optional..
@@diogobotelho5141 Good idea as I think it might get polarizing. Seeing as I can't afford it either way, my complaining was silly, but it's still an odd '1970s-ish' choice for a shifter.
That's homophobic.
@@MichaelLesesne Why? My Grandmother's not a lesbian.
I would never have allowed Liberace to put anything inside my grandmother, much less a crystal BMW shift knob.
Yes! Please please please do a video on the LC500
It's my birthday today and wake up to video on a car I've been dying to see and I got it 😂👌 love it awesome car I just wish BMW would fix their exhaust sounds like compared to AMG turbo cars they sound terrible
Happy bday :) AMG exhausts are mad, they're magical
@@aqwplayer222 thank you and they just sound so beautiful the people at AMG deserve a raise on how great they make turbo v8 engines sound without using artificial sounds
Happy birthday!
@@TheStraightPipes thank you and love your video guys always got that great car content canadia rocks
Haven’t watched y’all in like 2 months and OH MY GOD THE BEARD
Beard gang. Never stop watching
2 gangsters doing a gangster review in a gangster car! Awesome car😎!
Kenneth Smith I love that gangster gnarly drift at 9:21
Jakub's face in the backseat. Amazing.
Obviously they have to pass through the straight pipes.. to get to the gates of automotive heaven.
Dude that shifter is damn sick
it's 20 times better looking than an S Class are you kidding me?
Facts
@@Idfkwhatimdoing s63 and s550 coupe looks much better but this car looks amazing
The piano black completely undercuts that shifter, which is sublime. Just put carbon fibre around it, it's an BMW 8 Series - the buyer's not gonna blink at that extra charge.
Wow that interior is actually very underwhelming. It's simple which is good to some people but I feel like it just doesn't compete with the S-class or LC-500
In reality, it looks better than both of those.
@@hassanger8128 each to their own i guess. But I agree with thestraightpipes on this. It does look like an upsized 3-series interior, especially the center stack of infotainment controls. The 8 series outperforms both of them but the compromise between sport and luxury is definitely obvious in the interior
You guys definitely will hit 1 million subs this year. I'm calling it!
4:57 I want to sponsor a piece of duct tape on Yuri's Element's hood.
We can make that happen
I never like bmw aesthetics but this car damn, hella beautiful.
It would look amazing in all black
Looks like a mustang from the side and a camaro from the back
I Like It, My Favorite GTs are Aston Martin DB11 V8, This BMW 850i and a Ford Mustang GT.
Brought to you by CONTINENTAL, but the car has Pirelli Tyres mounted :D
We said it doesn't have Continental, followed by telling you the recommended Continental tires
First off - You dont do a full beard without the mustache. Makes you look like a garden gnome. Now with that out of the way - Flippin' awesome video as always , guys!:)
No more gnome
Body of a mustang & the price of 4... no thanks
Awesome and entertaining review. I laughed out loud more than a few times.
Why is Jacob looks like Sabertooth from X‑Men Origins 😋
It looks like a cross between an Infiniti and Lexus in the back. Great videos, yall.
I still think the S63/65 AMG coupe is the best looking fast ultra luxury car.
BMW's got this colour for they call "Barcelona Blue" which gives the car that perfect GT aura.
Lexus LC500 I'd like to see a review of that. There's a widebody LC500 GT kitted by Artisan Spirit.
"...in a parking lot that you own"; Is Yuri a lawyer off camera?
Honest review, good job guys!
Looks cheap and tacky compared to an S Class coupe. Then again they aren’t in the same category price-wise.
I was thinking this was my new favorite car but you talked about LC500h in the end and I was naaaaah! LC500h is one of my favorite cars ever for sure. Please review one soon.
Please please please drive a LC 500. Further, keep up the good work. I love all your videos!
Trying to
I died when he said “ it probably has a track pad”
the interior is very noble and the design really a successful car👍😉
Yuri, perhaps your glasses are interfering with the eye watch camera?
I went to the Car Salon in Quebec city and have gotten the habit of doing visor tests because of you hahaha
All who haven't watched it yet, watch it till the very end. There is huge surprise appearance by a very famous UA-camr
Watch Tuesday's video 😉
Who takes those outside shots and how? They always are ridiculously smooth. Also who is driving during those shots??? So many questions
All secrets
Can’t unsee the mustang, especially the front!
BMW should have made the 8 series a lot more luxurious almost like a "lower level" Rolls Royce interior and yet have the same driving characteristics that it currently has. Then they could easily out compete the S coupe and Aston Martin IMHO
Lumberjack Jakub is such a stud! Whoo, whoo!
I love this channel and the fact your Canadian 🙌🙌. A review of the Giulia coming?
Great review as always guys!
Sharp 💇🏻♂️ Yuri!
You guys pronounce Coupé properly!! As a frenchie, I’m very happy.
You guys are the best!!!!!
BMW goin crazy with their front grilles
Looks gangster as gangster can be. I agree with you guys