He Had 17 SACKS in 1 GAME
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- In 1990, Kansas City Chiefs defender Derrick Thomas, in a game against the Seattle Seahawks, broke the record which still stands today for most sacks in a single game (7). However, his performance, as great as it was, might not be the record. Because in 1952, in a game against the New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles defensive end Norman Willey may have recorded 17 sacks. And while there are conflicting reports on what Willey actually did on this day, one thing is for certain- it's one of the greatest mysteries in NFL history. This is the story behind the performance
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#nfl #eagles #philadelphia #philadelphiaeagles #1952 #football #sports #highlights #nflthrowback #nflhistory #nflhighlights - Спорт
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I think he definitely could have gotten 17 QB _hits._
But 17 sacks in an era when nobody threw the ball that much? I find that hard to believe.
My thought as well. Which is, of course, still incredibly impressive.
That is a valid point. I think if you hit the quarterback back then (with ball or not), it could be listed as a sack. The question is how many times did the quarterback have the ball and how many did he let it go.
@UncleMikeNJ What can be said, John Turney was able to get many of the sack numbers up to 1960 up and he said he's going to work on the 1950s. It sounds like a tough task since there are fewer footage.
Lets hope he succeeds.
Otto Graham, and Norm Van Brocklin threw a ton. The passing yard in a game record was achieved a year before.
@@KWCline91if we are talking about Deacon Jones then you also need to qualify it with QB hits during the game.
Sacks weren't even known as sacks in 1952; they were referred as something like "times tackled attempting to pass". You can see why Deacon Jones coined the term "sack".
Oh my gosh--What a story. I never heard this one at all. What an incredible performance...17 sacks? How you find these stories is amazing. Great job story-telling on this one. Love when you do history stories that are truly fascinating. Excellent job
Norman was my neighbor for years when I was a kid. He still worked for the eagles after he retired from football. Norman was one of the nicest and coolest guys that you would ever meet. He told my family this story one night we were over his house for dinner. I actually read the original newspaper article that he had mounted on his wall. This story is verbatim right out of Normans mouth and he was a straight shooter. He also was a very modest person who never talked much about his career, he would throw tid bits out every once in awhile if you asked him about it. Norman I miss you and thank you for all the times that you would throw the ball around to us kids in the neighborhood and being a great friend to my family and tolerating my love for the Dallas Cowboys. RIP and God Bless
I graduated from PMHS in '78 and my wife graduated with Norm's son Scott in '80. I had a paperback book when I was kid named, "The NFL's Greatest Quarterbacks" and there was a picture in it of Norm chasing Otto Graham. I had always thought about asking him for his autograph during my high school days or even when I would occasionally see him hanging out at the PV Swim Club but it felt weird to even think about it since he was just Norm to us kids although I knew full well he was much mote than that. What a character and a PV/Salem County icon. RIP, Wild Man.
Once in Madden 25, I saw JJ Watt intercept the snap.
Given that sacks weren't a tracked stat in 1952, this one definitely smells like a myth. Sadly, as a Seahawks fan, I remember that Derrick Thomas game.
Just imagine Buddy Ryan having Norman Willey in both Bounty Bowl games in 1989.
This is starting to be one of my favorite channels on UA-cam
I'm an Eagles fan and never heard of this, crazy how this is not more prominent in Eagles lore. Love this Channel for stuff like this!
As a 12 year old in pop Warner I recorded 13 qb sacks, 4 tackles for losses, and a fumble recovery. The coach on the other team walked over to me and handed me his game ball. That was my Al Bundy game!
That's impressive at any level...congrats!
Norm's last name is pronounced as "Willie" NOT Wiley. He was my driver's ed teacher at Pennsville Memorial High School in New Jersey in '77. That year Frank Gifford had released a book and several pages in it were devoted to Norm. One day when I and three of my classmates got into the car with Norm to take turns driving I noticed he had Giifford's book on the front seat and he had it bookmarked. I knew his history as three-time All-Pro defensive end but to us kids he was just Norm....a fun-loving guy and oh what a character. The winner of the annual Pennsville-Penns Grove(Bruce Willis' hometown) football game is awarded the Norm Willey Boot. Before Reggie White became an Eagle Norm was considered the franchise's all-time best defensive end.
After hearing your story about this I’m skeptical, and not just because the Wildman’s story changed, but rather for two other reasons:
1. This would mean in 1952 the Giants would have called at least 45 passing plays. It’s possible, I’m just not sure they would have done so.
2. I would think after a while the Giants would have changed their blocking strategy to prevent Willey from knowing Charlie Conerly’s cologne.
According to Football Reference, even though the number of sacks were not tracked, they did track sack yards lost, which was 127. So the 45 passing plays are feasible.
Looking at the box score it does say that New York had 127 yards lost from sacks. the QB's for the Giants went 17-28-182 yards and with the loss of sack yards had 55 net yards passing.
I should point out since 1994 only 2 people had more than 17 TACKLES! (Not Sacks)
David Harris 20 (2007) As a Rookie!
Derrick Brooks 19 (2000)
Only 5 other occurrences of 17 tackles were actually made since 1994; Patrick Willis did it twice.
Sack records prior to the 1980s are like record sales before Soundscan era, it gets really funky and often comes from those who stood to benefit from it, making the stats hard to trust.
Keep the legend going.
Great story and great footage. That's why I keep coming back here.
This record reminds me of what basketball historians said about Chamberlain and Russell, both easily blocked 10 shots per game but often.
Good comparison... But Wilt and Russell had so many of their unbelievable feats documented that it is not that hard to believe they were routinely blocking that many shots. I'll never forget the first time I looked in a Sports Almanac and saw that Wilt hd a season where he averaged 50 ppg and 25 rpg!
I was thinking about this the other day. If blocks were official stats, then Wilt and Bill might be #1 or two instead of Hakeem Olajuwon. I read somewhere where a ref said Russell blocked 6 to 7 shots a game. Might be over exaggerated, but still would be impressive.
Or reminds of Wilts claim about the number of women he slept with.
Sounds like a stat I used to rack up in Tecmo Super Bowl
After the first 4 games, the Cardinals were tied for the division lead at 3-1. Then in typical Cardinal fashion, proceeded to go 1-7.
To put that in context, Kevin Carter had 17 sacks in the 1999 SEASON; enough to lead the league.
Derrick Thomas doesn't talk about the 7 sacks he got, he talks about the one that he didn't get, which ended in the game winning (for Seattle) touchdown pass.
Thomas was my favorite lb
Today marks 11 years since he passed away. That's ironic that this was posted today but anyway in my mind the record belongs to late great Derrick Vincent Thomas.
This game is like finding how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. The world may never know.
According to Pro Football Database box score for this game, the Giants passing stats were as follows: 17-28-187-0-0 and had 55 net passing yards. Now, since yards lost to a sack counts against a QB's passing yards, the yards lost makes this sound plausible. This means that 132 yards were lost due to sacks. That's either a heck of a lot of sacks or the Giants QB was giving his best Bob Greise in Super Bowl 6 impression on a few of them.
Statistically, sack yardage used to go against a quarterback's rushing total. The problem with this game is that the stats are incomplete. Charlie Conerly is only credited with one rush for -2 yards. The backup, 2 for -2 yards with a long of 0. That's three that can be verified as potential Eagle sacks.
This is really a shame. Think about how many sacks Deacon Jones or Coy Bacon would have had had they counted sacks back then.
He got $10 for every QB hit, which is not always a sack. Him getting $170 doesn't mean 17 sacks.
surprised it took this long to get to this.
An Eagles video right before my birthday? Yes please! I can’t believe I had never heard this story before. I don’t know why the NFL can’t credit sacks retroactively for certain players. Even if no footage is available, I would have to think that they can still look at box scores.
Sacks weren’t a sack back then, you couldn’t check the box score for that
I was not ready for member of the clergy picking a fight with a head coach. That caught me off guard
I think at the time, there were way more QB running plays drawn up.
Great story. You really do amazing work. Zimmerman was a great writer and a really NFL legend who never took the field. I'm inclined to believe Zimmerman, Philos, Wiley, & the other writer. Let's call it 12. Lol Which is insane. Anytime I would talk about sacks to my Dad & Uncle, who started watching the NFL in the 50's, they'd scoff at today's sack masters (except Reggie White & L.T.) & say watch Deacon Jones & the Fearsome Foursome, the Steel Curtain, & the Orange Crush just to name the big ones.
I thought this might be an April Fools episode featuring Bobby Boucher!
In another sport, there seems to be some legitimate cause of dispute about Wilt Chamberlain's legendary 100-point game.
Back then, just tackling the QB near the line was considered a QB takedown aka a sack. I believe he had about that many, there weren’t schemes to stop pass rushers like nowadays.
The game log on Pro Football Reference says the Giants lost 121 yards in QB sacks.
ProFootball HOF writer Ray Didinger says it was 17 sacks. He talks about it in the Philadelphia Eagles history DVD
@Fries Hence another reason to have some doubts.
Right now we can only hope Turney can get the job done on finding the sack numbers for the 1950s, not to mention he isn't done with early 1960s yet from the look of it.
The water boy did
Also...
I wish a group would go back (by reviewing video AND using Team's game Logs - they still exist) and extend the sacks about 2 years at a time.
If the official stats were started in 1982...
Imagine including 1981 and 1980....
Then try and do 1979 and 1978 one day...
Then '77 and '76...
Keep going in pairs like that until the proverbial "brick wall" is hit.
I bet you'll find new all time leaders and new single game sack records as you go.
Remember.. . Deacon Jones (of the Rams) coined the term.
He had to have got someone a LOT for that to become a thing.
You also had guys like Joe Greene, Jack Lambert (who btw.. had 23 sacks listed in his final years with the team... 82-84)...
Many of the Cowboy lineman like Randy White and Ed Jones...
Lots and lots of QB sackers in the 70's and 80s.
It would take a team of people (one team assigned to a person) to go over the video and also if available... game logs.
Meaning two people watching one game and verifying with each other as they watch.
I think it could be done.
I bet you could go back to at least 1974 before things start getting hairy as far as "missing game footage" goes...
Pro football reference has sacks back to the early 60s now. Deacon had two seasons where he had over 20 sacks in a 14 game season.
Turney have been working on this for a while.
I really wish the NFL historians since they have so much access to every NFL game they should ADD stats that weren’t before a players era, I remember hearing a story from Deacons Jones saying he would have had multiple 20+ sack seasons.
If MLB can go back 100+ years to determine a player’s WAR, I don’t see why the NFL can’t retroactively credit sacks to its players who retired before they were official.
That could not happen from any such video games like NFL GAMEDAY, Madden, or Tecmo Bowl series by one player😲
I think this is the first time I've seen a video of yours on something I already knew about
Fascinating. Even if he just 17 knock-downs on the QB, that would be insane. Even if the 17 sacks isn't accurate, at the very least it is confirmed he caused the opposing QB to basically quit, and caused a man of the cloth to disregard the teachings of his lord. That's a hell of a game!
It like Wilt Chamberlain 100 pts games no footage and if Wilt didnt wrote 100 no one wouldve known about the record
There was a scorebook and a box score printed in newspapers.
Norm's 17 sacks in one game is 1000% percent more legitimate than Michael Strahan's 22.5 sack season.
Not really...
For some context, Sports Illustrated actually mattered when Dr. Z wrote there. THis is back when they actually cared about sports, not about virtue signaling and agenda pushing. Dr Z was the most important writer in the publication and he was famous for two things. First was his passion for history. He deeply cared about the history of the game and researched this topic. Second was that he actually charted every game he attended. He was 2 or 3 generations ahead of his time in this regard. We lost an absolute 'titan when Z had his stroke and could no longer write. In a way he was lucky - he didn't get to see the shitpile his magazine would become. If Dr. Z says it was 8, then that's as good a source as you'll find. 8 it is.
It wouldn't surprise me. Sacks were probably easier to get back then, as were a lot of defensive things. But that's what happens when people don't take some achievements seriously enough to track. Believing he had more than 7 sacks pales in comparison to KNOWING Thomas had 7 sacks.
It’s Will- E not Wile -e like coyote. NFL films did a story about Norm Wiley in the early 90’s. He worked for the eagles until the late 1990’s.
Are there pre 1982 games with footage where players had 8 or more sacks?
I'm sure Wiley had a great game. I'm sure he was in the backfield a lot. But as has been pointed out here, the NFL wasn't exactly a pass-happy league in 1952. So, we're supposed to take at face value that the Giants called 45 pass plays? In a game that they only lost by 4 points, so it wasn't like they were down big and had to chuck. That's just not believable.
And when someone's talking about his performance or his era, there's a natural tendency to embellish. I've also heard stories about how Willie McCovey hit a foul ball out of Candlestick Park. Willie McCovey retired five years before I was born -- but I know that's not true.
When I was a kid (young but old enough to have tangible memories), I remember going to a 49ers vs. Eagles game. It was a close game that the 49ers won. I can vividly remember the Eagles driving to the end zone opposite of the one we sat in at the end of the game and Randall Cunningham attempting a QB sneak on 4th down. They brought the chains out and he was ruled short and after all of that, the measurement was moot because the Eagles had too many men on the field. If UA-cam didn't exist, I would tell you today that's how the game finished. But it's not what happened. The Eagles went for it on a 4th and long, completed the pass and got ruled down short of the sticks, prompting a long argument. The 49ers came onto the field to run the clock out. Steve Young took a knee and on that play, the Eagles had too many men. The difference here is that I'm young enough that pretty much every football game I've ever been to has surviving video footage.
If the game or play in question is more recent, there's probably video footage of it. But when it's an older story, the older eyewitnesses are the only ones who can tell the story. And their tendency is to embellish. It's not a criticism. It's natural.
The NBA is like the NFL. Elmore Smith has the record for most blocked shots in a game but who knows, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Nate Thurmond or George Mikan must have had a game or games where they blocked more than 17 shots.
I'm 6th grade youth football I had like nine or ten sacks in the first half as a MLB and was taken out of the game at halftime (the coaches of both teams talked and made an agreement to pull me)
So he had a game similar to Bobby Boucher's debut.
Informed that is but it's pretty doubtful.
For those in doubt, it's fact. Back in the 80's and 90's NFL Films had a huge presence on ESPN. This was documented on the network during a special. It's actually pretty old news. All NFL records are not really official. From 1920 to 1931 no statistics were kept. Dick Butkus has a career 0 tackles on his official stats. Deacon Jones has 0 career sacks. Just the way it is. It's not like baseball where stats are a holy grail.
I remember when someone tried to use sack numbers to decrease the gap between LT and Derrick Thomas. The person basically implied that LT somehow had no sacks in his rookie reason despite being named an All Pro that year just because sacks were unofficial that time.
Welcome to MythBusters, JG9 edition
Is there a link to the footage here?
…. But mostly he was involved in alot of assist too so you figure around 10 or 11 his …..plus the rest where assists by him , …….so it felt like he did them all practically!
There's no surviving footage of this game, why am I not surprised?
Very few games where filmed entirely in 52. No video then.
If there were any surviving footage, it would most likely consist of touchdowns, game-winning field goals, and other big plays; everything else was lost on the cutting room floor.
Maybe it was 17 times he hit the QB, not 17 sacks. Like for instance, on 12 of those hits maybe the QB gets the pass off before going down resulting in an incompletion.
Weird.... the way I remember it back then was that Thomas had TIED the record for sacks in a game with 6.....
He almost had #7.... but Dave Krieg threw the winning touchdown pass on that very play.
Did they go back and award him a free sack somewhere posthumously?
I remember thomas missed Krieg before the touchdown toss.......Derrick could have had 8
L.C. Greenwood was the first player in Super Bowl history to have three sacks in a game at Super Bowl 10, but it doesn't count.
I remember this game as a Seahawks fan. My friend called me to rub it in on the last drive. When Thomas missed that sack and Dave kraig hit Paul skansey for a touchdown with no time left, I screamed “in your face!”
So when a player was sacked it was noted as a "dump" and not a tackle or a tackle for a loss??
He would’ve had an eighth sack on the last play but he missed Craig and he was able to throw the TD pass that won it for Seattle.
Is his name Wiley or Willey(like billy)? All the written material has Willey.
Probably hits on the quarterback
17 sacks? Pfft. I've done that on Tecmo Super Bowl a bunch of times
Well he obviously got to the QB a lot. Still impressive.
Two things.
1. How did anyone back then know to count sacks when it wasn't tracked until the 80's? Unless they called them sacks but just never counted them i guess.
2. QBs didn't even throw the ball 17 times in a game for him to even get 17 sacks 😂
17 sacks in a season is impressive enough which is about a one sake per game average...let alone 17 in a single GAME
My user created player in 99 madden had as many sacks in a game 🤣
No video tape in 52
@@sammyvh11 he is talking about a video game man
You could have bought a house with $170 in 1952.
I’ve heard his last name pronounced Will-ee
If it is true than all the way back then people must of just called a tfl a sack which would make sense considering back than they didn’t drop to pass 17x lol
QB hits as well, some of the 17 sacks may have been these.
I will split the difference and say 9. Based on pass attempts and teammates and Zimmerman. To me Zimmerman is as reliable as the NBA writer who said Wilt had a quintuple double. They say it, it is so
Not.true. Flight has more sacks but we wasn't looking.
17 sacks
That's like Al Bundy scoring 4 Touchdowns in a single game!
Too bad the stat wasn't officially tracked
No the record is 7 by DT
Derek Thomas was a beast, his son is a nice guy as well
dumping