Ashes of Creations New Tech is Insanity
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Space Tomato: The Key To Star Citizen | Server Meshing is Working, Here is What it Does:
• The Key To Star Citize...
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Ashes of Creation is an Immersive huge open world Sandpark MMORPG that is redefining the gaming landscape. Created for fans of PVP, PVE, and Roleplay, this ever-changing world promises the ultimate MMO experience. This game, which began development in 2016 and upgraded to Unreal Engine 5 in 2021, is now on the cusp of revolutionizing the MMORPG genre. Intrepid Studios are working towards delivering these highly requested features to an old school playerbase waiting for that MMORPG to bring them back to the golden age of the early 2000s:9 different playable races with both male and female options.A massive 1200 square kilometer world size at launch with 85 Nodes.A fully open world game with no loading screens, offering complete freedom to explore.A rich array of features including Dungeons, Raids, World Bosses, Open World PVP, Caravan PVP, castle sieges, node sieges, arenas, duels, guild wars, and more.A vibrant player-driven economy, crafting and artisan system, political system, citizenship, player run shops, taverns with parlor games, and a unique character customization system.Ashes of Creation offers an experience like no other, combining the best elements of both sandbox and theme park MMOs. This is a game built by an MMO fan for MMO fans, fully funded and committed to a zero pay-to-win model.
Please support Space Tomato!🙏🙏🙏Without this amazing breakdown we would have no idea what to expect for Ashes of Creation's upcoming showcase:
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no
Funny when they show this "new tech" when planetside 2 have this for last 11 years and its hex based system map, in planetside map is 64 square kliometers and can hold up to 1000 players per map, but map is divided in hexes and every hex is like server mesh and yes player can interact beetween meshes cause, fights are often like 100v100 players on few hexes at once. And the PlanetSide hold Guiness world record for Most players in an online FPS battle 1,530, achieved on 5 November 2022
Omg!! It's Space Tomato! I love his videos and yours so I can't believe you watched one of his videos! That's awesome! PS. He does a podcast every week, maybe you could hop in it who knows.
Launch Sequence with Narc. That would be a monday treat.
on your question about waiting for Intrepid making server meshing: SC said they were going to do this thing, but it would take time. the supporters at the time resoundingly said they wanted it done right. So we knew we were in for a long haul. Steven sold a game concept everyone knew was feasible. BIG difference.
If you are referring to any community poll, there was none of such. Thats just what everybody says so it became "true" (its the mandela effect I think).
And, of course, most gamers want more if there given the option. Thats why they make for terrible game devs. Its the responsibility of the game developer and company to make sure their goals are fitting for their game and achievable (in a timely manner). CIG could have easily decided to stick to the initially planned and worked on instanced model for the initial launch, but it was more convinient to go for SM instead directly. It gave them enough time to finish their singleplayer game while the MMO is put on the backburner because "it requires SM to function".
The big difference is that SC botched their first OCS and Server Meshing implementations. A lot of time waste from like ~2017 to end of 2020. And then had to get Turbulent in to implement it with PES, gRPC, a graph DB, the Replication Layer instead. Which is the EXACT implementation SpatialOS had in like 2016. I know CIG rewrote CryEngine entirely from around 2014 to 2017. And some of the initial OCS and SM code could be used for PES and the new SM. But it still took them from end of 2020 till now to course correct and get this new SM version working.
To try and put it more simply through examples :
- SC wants to be able to handle a city hub with DYNAMIC server meshing, which would for example turn 1 server running the city plaza with 100 players to 4 servers splitting the plaza running 400 when they arrive, the problem is you can't do just selective splitting because players might decide, hey we're all going to the bar right now and then 3 of those servers are useless, so the dynamic meshing will attempt to re-split its location so the 4 way split is INSIDE the bar to handle the load
- Similarly, to have fleet battles where player ships have about 100 player on capital ships, you would need 1 master server for the region and a server per capital ship (for example, not the actual use case) the master server only handles the 'container' entities of each ship as a whole and say, their weaponry and hits but each smaller server holding a ship will manage everything underneath it, which would include the ship's systems and hull damage, its players, atmosphere, player inventory and so on and relay the 'general' information to the master server
in both cases, for the player perspective, you just see the most plain view relevant to you while the servers manage the fine print in between them, this is how you could see the space battle from the capital ship window while being inside it or people on the other side of the bar while having normal fps, like the master server, the player sees the 'general' view (players in a bar) while the smaller servers handle remembering the 200 items each player is carrying split between them and runs its physics and simulations
AoC likely doesn't need even half of what SC is doing and likely doesn't really need DYNAMIC server meshing and even if it did, it would need to handle mountains less of information than starcitizen with all its physics, entities and billion objects existing at the same time, its 2 use cases would be siege wars and the town hubs
I think Star Citizen STARTED as 'just a game' but along the way they had to Solve a Problem, and the resulting Server Meshing Tech that CIG made is WAY WAY more Valuable than Star Citizen could ever be.
Like TONS of Developers are gonna want this Tech. BILLIONS to be made.
:D
Sadly they only just claimed to be using server meshing in 2021 after paying 300mil, and not working on any kind of game play other then that crappy Demo.. I mean Alpha 3.43.
You wanna make billions from this tech, it would have to be next gen VR for space warfare and planet warfare.. We can only Wait, Watch and Hope.
do the people who funded it buying ships years ago get a share in these billions?
@@mattk4093 only as a side effect, when Unreal 7 comes out with it.
@@mattk4093 Aww Hell Yeah they do, they get to fly them in virtual space that never existed before. We just have to wait another 10yrs before they perfect Meshing.
Persistent Entity Graph = is the record of where the entities/objects in the universe are and what state they are in. Is this gun in a hab? In a ship? on a person? Broken? The Persistent Entity graph is recording that and sharing it with the game servers and clients. Cliff notes - This is where all the shit is and what state its in.
Replication Layer = is the record of what the entities/objects are doing in the universe. Is the gun equipped on a person? Are they on a train in the city? Is it being shot at an Npc? The Replication layer is recording that and sharing it with the game servers and clients. Cliff notes - What the hell is happening now and where is it happening?
Sever Mesh/Servers = is enabling the entities/objects to actually DO things in the universe. Are you jumping off the back of a ship with that gun? The physics for all that? The game rules that govern who's getting hit. The damage calculations, the AI for the NPCs? The Servers are doing that and reporting back what is happening in their individual simulations via the replication layer to the Persistent entity graph and clients. Cliff notes - I'm the dungeon master in the DND game making all the shit happen.
Clients = the players causing these entities/objects to do shit in the first place. We are getting this information streamed to us based on where we are (Client side object container streaming) and what we are doing. When we are done with a play session and drop some random crap some place, when we log back in unless someone else has moved it or its been cleaned up because of server load, it will be there because it was recorded in the persistent entity graph. And it will be there no matter what server instance you sign back in on because of the replication layer. Cliff notes - I am the player responding to the Dungeon master commands and generally breaking shit.
Hope that helps!
Just think if Ashes had a creator like Space Tomato. His video quality has always been really high. His narrator voice fits so well to his style as well
What is also probably valuable about server meshing is now you can lower the specs on any individual server and increase the number of servers. Server quality isn't linear. 3 beefy servers is probably equivalent to 5 simple servers but the cost of 3 beefy servers could be more than 5 simple servers. And you can dynamically add servers to handle peak usage. The important part of that is that on low usage times Intrepid could save money by spinning down servers.
His initial comment about it being a tech company is right on. Guaranteed they will sell this technology to other companies once they've got it figured out. Star Citizen is their demo for dynamic meshing.
Yes and No. Remember they started this sever tech thing later into development. The team definitely will develop the game into completion if not for anything else but to play it themselves.
I hope so. If tech like this WORKS it will change gaming forever
Blizzard v SC on servers. Blizzard owns their own datacenters. They started LONG before the cloud existed. SC is in the cloud already. So as new servers are needed, they will be spun up. The example is 100s of players will be footing the bill. The real savings occure when one pilot decides to fly (without quantum jump) from one planet to another. One server serving a moon would be told to take care of lonely boy, instead of bringing up another server. Also, once the party is over, the extra servers spin down, saving money, as they are paid for by the minute.
also, SC uses AWS which are extreamly flexible, literally u just need to pay a bit more and u have a fresh server on the fly.
Sincerely hope that Steven's health is okay. Seems like he is always coughing and sick frequently.
He’s clearly indulging in to much of his own Copium!
Ashes is Steven's cancer
I'm convinced he's dying and wants to release the craziest MMO. Hope he doesn't die
@@thelazyoz2061aids maybe?
@@thegreenroom4793 What the actual fuck?
What never thought I would see Narc react to Space Tomato! :O
Video with tomato talking about AC and SC pls
this would be awesome
Alpha 2 around the corner and they’re showcasing server tech… this game is down bad man
They're calling them the same thing but fundamentally they're completely different solving different problems. AOC doesn't have entities with physics acting across servers, and they don't save the states and locations of thousands of them (indefinitely). This is the problem SC is having doing this with an FPS game that an MMORPG just doesn't have. The world is static, besides players and NPCs. No physical objects are communicating with servers. Planetside 2 did this in an FPS game, but without the entities thing and alot of magic. Very impressive especially for its time though
AOC is also only planning on thousands? on each shard. SC is trying to not limit players, except by region ofc. Each shard on ashes is supposed to tell its own story with the whole sandbox thing, so it's not a problem to be limited. The only problem there is servers 'dying' pvp and all that.
Eventually you get people saying just give me a loading screen anyway, space travel might as well be one, travel between systems might as well be one, exiting planet atmosphere can be a hidden loading screen like no man's sky. I think that's just being willfully ignorant though, traveling can be interrupted, flying out of atmosphere doesn't segment your combat, you can use the time to maintain things plan or anything you want. Your 'gameplay' is never interrupted and the potential for immersion is insane. Yeah that gameplay currently is bland, and we come back to the main problems with SC but that's besides the point
So to be very clear:
Server Meshing = 64 Bits coordination + OCS SS/CS + Entity Graph + Persistent Entity Streaming + Replication Layer + Server Cluster + Seamless Server Transition + Dynamic Server Alocation (among others).
Yes, for Dynamic Server Meshing u need, at least, all those pieces together.
AoC will probably only have 1 (or 2 if we are lucky) piece of those I mentioned, the servers cluster, - therefore, it wont be a real server meshing, but a refined servers cluster, just like wow or PS2 have, which is, again, not a real SM.
Fun fact: 99% of the people who will read your comment wont understand that SM is a group of techs put together and not only the seamless server transition. Most of them wont even understand that the server transition is the most easy part and the persistence is the hard one.
o7
so what is OCS SS CS??
@@blackbird5666 OCS = Object Container Streaming Server Side / Client Side is a tech that SC released in Alpha 3.8 that allows the server to stream in the entites, the textures and the IA in the DGS (Dedicated Game Server) AND in the client only when they are needed.
They need to not call it server meshing.
I like how he says what intrepid needs to do like he is a game programmer
WoW was running on serveral servers with its own instances. No interaction was possible between the instances other than chatting. When a space is unused and a server is powered down another server of the dynamic mesh takes over this area of space as it only needs to load the necessary object containers like the planet to show. They really power down servers but other servers take over the responsibility to represent the area. Those object containers can be a planet with the atmosphere around it or a capital ship with more than 100 people in it walking around or the bar in a citiy on a planet can be its own container. That is the beauty of the SC concept for dynamic server meshing. That is why they showed the concept with those 3 servers in CitizenCon with direct interaction between those servers.
Server meshing attached to node progression would actually be a really good sudo-dynamic way of doing it. Considering node progression/changes are not going to be too frequent, its very infrequent server movements. They can also do it based on node war status; since war is expected to have larger amount of people on node for the duration.
Shouldnt it be solely based on where players are? Not sure what people mean by this? If there are many players in one area then there should be many servers handling those. Regardless of the node level.
Welcome to the verse Narc, I see you have your own copium supply ready. We dont talk about dates.
Its cost effective because you are increasing the utilization of your servers. The number of servers in an area scales up/down depending on traffic. So instead of having 5 servers constantly running 5 dead zones, you have 1 server take care of the 5 zones by itself and use the other 4 where they are more needed.
Mate I'd love to talk about the topic in general if you're interested! Thanks for watching and sharing the video, here's to talking about alpha games 🙃
If they decided to have 1 MEGA server per region and fully adapt this tech... Could be legendary.
Who in this day and age would want to make an mmo, it is an exercise in failure. Hell it's probably taking years off of poor Steven's life.
This is MMO server tech finally reaching what the enterprise cloud had been pushing for a decade now... The costs savings, the amount of automation, scalability, high availability and much more will finally happen to MMOs and we will finally be able to simulate full worlds in a cost and performance effective way. SC promised this from the beginning and that is why I backed them more then SC I want them to sell the tech for the gaming industry. For reference I work as AWS solutions architect and I have been involved in creating many big data, machine learning and high scale infrastructures that use all of this tech to grow and shrink seamlessly for the clients
So Server Meshing is like quantum mechanics… if there is no one there to perceive it, the server doesn’t render it
That is Server Side Object Container Streaming, a part that makes Server Meshing possible.
Instead of a traditional server simulating every room in a building at all times, it only simulates those that have players in them to save on processing resources.
This is made possible by the fact that the game world is divided into Object Containers, which basically amounts to chunks. A room, a ship, a room in a ship, a city district, a planet, a solar system are all Object Containers.
What Server Meshing allows, is the ability to assign servers to these rooms/Object Containers as dedicated simulation processors, while keeping traversal and interactions across these rooms seamless. This is achieved with the Replication Layer, which stands between the Player and the Server/Simulator and governs the ground truth of the shard's state, so that you can witness a player moving about in the hallway that is on one server, while you are in your room that is on a different server. This also allows you to interact with him by shooting him, which is made possible by the fact that the replication layer knows that you shot the other guy, sends that data to the relevant servers and they process your and his state and communicates that back to you two.
Let's be clear about what increases lag in situations when alot of characters are in a tight space. It is because the server has to run alot more checks (for example collision) and can't keep up with the normal tick rate, because of the exponentially increased computation needed. There is no way that other servers can "help out" a "struggling" server without increasing the overall time to do all these checks. Sending data over a network connection is way slower than just doing the calulation itself for a server. So the idea of slicing a large battle in parts is a pipe dream, but it could work with better hardware that focuses just on the large battle. Perhaps the new AI focussed hardware could be helping with that, because these have alot of VRAM, which is faster than the normal RAM, but i never heard of a mmo server that runs on cuda or somthing similar.
If you guys think i'm wrong, then let me know
The cost of servers is not an issue at all if you have dynamic server meshing, it's actually cheaper than the standard way of doing it.
If you imagine WOW has 1000 players, each one is in a different zone, that's 1000 servers needed to host those players with a loading screen in-between each.
With dynamic servers, if there are 1000 players, they would be able to run just 10 servers, spread across all zones, because the terrain is mostly run client side, and they save 990 servers, because it's not a server per zone, it's a server per 100 players, and you're just spreading the server resources out.
Then, if you scale this up to 10k players in just one zone, WOW servers would be dying, whereas meshed servers can just assign 100 players to 1000 servers meshed together, and no servers would be assigned to the rest of the open world because they are not populated and don't need to take up any more server resources.
This is also why servers are based on player count, because nodes are fixed values which don't take up much space, anything in the world can be cached in the client, whereas player interactions are happening constantly, so take up the most resources, it's all about network bandwidth at the end of the day, not virtual locations in game like most people tend to think, that's also why games are 100GB+, you don't download an entire zone every time you go through a loading screen, would be a huge waste on bandwidth.
The replication layer part is just talking about when 2 players are close to each other, but on different servers.
Those 2 servers need to communicate with each other because they have common data (players), so the player data and visuals are replicated on both servers at once, then once they move away from the server boundary, their data will be assigned to a single server and wiped from the other one.
Hope that makes sense.
Just checked, SC is hosted on AWS. I've been working with AWS (serverless lambda + EC2) for a while now: insane possibilities. I imagine AWS deserve a lot of credit for this being even remotely feasible
Yeah that's why they hooked the lumberyard networking infrastructure into their workflow for the StarEngine.
20:13 that's what Star Citizen players have been trying to tell everyone for years
as players converge onto a small area, they AREN'T in or on other areas. IF there are no players in an area, then they don't need a server to create that area. If there are few players in an area, a single server can handle the workload. With a very few players in an area, that server might be used to create/control multiple areas.
Why can't Ashes just license the server meshing tech from CIG? They've done all the work, why not leverage it? Why reinvent the wheel?
They'd most likely have to switch to CIG's engine, which they are not intending on licensing right now. The majority of AoC's systems would need to be reworked to fit into StarEngine. So basically, they'd reinvent the wheel.
is this bait? :D
They have quite famously not done the work.
@@Danso_3000 I guess the multiple public server meshing tests were staged then?
I don't think it's the same system intrepret is going to use honestly, many people will get disappointed for sure
many people wont understand that SC scale is just another thing and the interpid adaptation from the SC Server Meshing is a limited one. However, even if limited, it covers the needs of AoC. AoC in the end is not a permanent persistent universe as SC is trying to be.
agreed, they really did a bad move calling what they will show SM.
@@rabbitanations23AoC's map is also much smaller which might help
@@rabbitanations23 Imo, this "a permanent persistent universe" idea is just silly. Even Minecraft, THE persistent sandbox game, has limitations on entities (entity cramming) and item despawn after lifetime runs out to limit.
Even SC is going to have such systems. They planned a garbage system that cleans up items already.
@@SETHthegodofchaos its not planned, its already ingame you ignorant. And it just despawn unsefull entities.
It is all persistent as long as all the data is stored in a backend server and not in the DGS. This doesnt exist in minecraft, dont invent trash.
Eve Online has that MMO aspect of fights with thousands of players taking place on the same grid, they use a concept called Time Dialation or TiDi to help with the server load. I am really excited for AoC to showcase their new tech.
ya know what actually makes me laugh at the idea of thousands of players around each other (Especially for something like SC) is yeah sure we could technically make that possible on the server side but, what about the clients? I see 90% of players ending up with a power point presentation in situations like this.
@@BobOfBarons that's true. The end user also has to be able to handle the increased load
Rofl
So after a long time
The state of Ashes of creation is still the same
And now they talk about bullshit meshing servers :D
This game is still the scam it was
after 8 years here the state
- 3/4 classes not even finished
- scenario made in dev area
- same biome for years
- Caravan boring shit
- nothing
Nice Progress
Why is Scam the buzz words people always go for? cant you people use anything else? its starting to loose its meaning
Every fucking time I have a fucking day off and can attend the livestream it fucking cancels!!
Anyways, very useful info!
I think you've come to a fair assessment of star citizen. It's been mismanaged, and had lots of feature creep issues, but it's definitely not a scam, and this tech is the major thing that's held it up.
the main difference is you can dynamically distribute server load so 100 servers can be 10x as efficient and can actually be playable together without "walls" . So if 10k ppl are playing instead of having 10 servers and 1k on each all can play together and servers can distribute areas / players optimally (i.e. mayb there is an event and 90% of players are in one city, then 9 servers can dedicate temselves to the city and leave the rest of the world on 1 server. this implies all servers are allways at "max" capacity and not wasted
Wait, Throne and Liberty already can handle massive 10k massive pvp... i tried playing TnL 2 months ago and the sieges was very fun imo
TnL is like new world all user based not server so it is , was and will be filled with hacks , bugs and exploits lol
TnL doesnt have physics nor collisions. Easy server side game
I have been saying for years all gamers should be cheering CIG on. Not trying to tear them down . Because they are single handedly dragging the gaming industry forward . If they succeed we all win .
Imagine them selling or liscensing their tech to mmo devs
The technology shown here doesn't seem entirely outrageous (as someone in the telecom space)... BUT... the idea that objects could easily flow between servers would be extremely negotiation expensive. And we have significantly more staff than what they are working with -- hopefully they are 10x devs because this is not easy.
Its handled by the Replication Layer that sits between the Client and Servers and manages the distribution of entity simulation authority.
The devs of Ark did something similar with Atlas with an side team of 10 devs , had some role back but worked , many years ago
Playable worlds (some former EQ Next devs) announced their new game, sandbox space MMO
Is it just me or is this terrifying from an AI perspective, as this is basically how human neurons work which using this tech would make true AI easy?
Possibly yeah.... hadn't thought about it like that but you're onto something.
distributed systems and super computers arent anything new. I dont think this will change anything in this regard.
Right before the 4th, nice. Narc, keep the flame alive. I will play this if it ever comes out (I pray it does).
I feel like I just did a party line of refined copium with my boy.
I want gw2 with servermeshing and a open map
Spacetomato Narc video, GO!
It's like the general public had amnesiaaaaaa. Server meshing is an old buzz word and not new technology. It's still interesting stuff though
What general public? the general publics opinion of sc is that its a scam lmao.
you are ignorant. I could just ask you to send me a link of a website, article or book that mentioned the term "SERVER MESHING" before SC and u woulnt find any. Ignorant.
I'm genuinely concerned for Stephen's health... It's always sounded like he's had a cold in nearly every episode. Hope it's nothing to serious.
Intrepid should have used another words. Calling what they are going to show a SM makes no sense (obviously it wont be the same as SC, UE5 would burn if they only tried to recreate smt at a scale of SM) because it has nothing to do to what citizen is doing
It has nothing with client, they do not run game server in UE
@@klimaluky what? Obviously Unreal Engine is not a games server, but unreal engine is what sends the orders per frame to the server and what waits the reply from the server to act accordingly. They are not the same thing but both are conected, and UE is very know for not being the best MMOs engine.
Actually its a very bad engine for MMOs. Still, if u remove physics, gravityn collisions and stuff, it does work for MMOs, but its an engine meant for single player cinematic games.
you want to be they just imported the SpatialOS plugin into UE5? :D
@@SETHthegodofchaos the only real game that tried that scam is bankrupted so hopefully no
@@rawdrakeman8152problem is CIGs implementation seems to be almost the exact same. So what to take away from that?
The ignorant regarding server meshing got humbled
May the copium be with him 🙏
I hope this game will play on my EVEA GTX 980ti Classified. (not the min spec requirements) I need the 5090 to come out sooner! Great Vid Narc.
*How did Ashes achieve Dynamic Server Meshing before StarCitizen?*
*Talent.*
We dont even know what exactly Server Meshing is when it comes to Ashes.
or lies
This is actually so much copium, probably too much
SC isn't "presenting the game" ... they are presenting marketing material. ... want to test it... ask an SC backer what "exploration" gameplay is ... its just a marketing term ... zero development behind it. Steven does a much better job presenting the actual game and his plan for gameplay.
Narc did a good job of explaining how CIG had to design the tools and tech to design the game. And that's precisely what Jared tells people every single week on ISC/SCL with the weekly video dev diaries. Exploration gameplay is held up by scanning v2, and scanning v2 is held up by server meshing, so we won't be getting scanning v2 until alpha 4.0, which is where proper exploration gameplay can be realised.
Running in someone’s server in a basement. “Trust me bro” seal of approval
Server bullshit
Funny when they show this "new tech" when planetside 2 have this for last 11 years and its hex based system map in planetside is 64 square kliometers and can hold up to 1000 players per map, but map is divided in hexes and every hex is like minisub server, fights are often like 100v100 players on few hexes at once. Also depends on your equiped weapon or vehicles ther is maximum distance rendened for vehicles it would be around 700m, for infantry 400-500. And the PlanetSide hold Guiness world record for Most players in an online FPS battle 1,530, achieved on 5 November 2022
Where do you think those planetside2 employees are right now? Theyre working on this. This is significantly different from what planetside2 had.
It's not the same tech at all. Since it doesn't use persistent entity tracking, and it zones players.
Crypto mining shows that servers aren't really that expensive, it's just the service being overcharged and of course the company profits and executive bonuses that require microtransactions on scale.
dynamic meshing will be the most cost efficient server structure, as servers can adopt its governed space according to need. means, they can always run on optimal performance/efficiency. means you need LESS servers for the same task compared to a static mesh like WOW. in a static mesh, you always have waste.
wow doesnt have a mesh, they have a cluster.
dynamic meshing is more cost efficient over static meshing. but both of these are more expensive than standard instancing.
server meshing is more cost efficient to run, but much more difficult to code. But once the code exists you're good.
Thats debateable. Server Meshing requires replicating game state across game servers for those seamless interactions and handoffs between servers. This adds additional bandwidth on the backend. Which has to be paid for.
Furthermore, since you can have many more players, you also have to send them state updates of each other. That may be optimized with multicasting, but in some cases not. So you will have much more data going out of your backend to the clients if many players are meeting up.
Also, optimizing the networking for the players (interest Management) will also take additonal performance off of the intermediate server (Replication Layer) and will cost money that you wouldnt have to spend in other games with meshing.
I think in the end, you need more servers and costs will be higher than traditional backends. Even with dynamic server meshing.
He misunderstood what how WOW and severe meshing. He gots the feast right.
Seems to be what Throne and Liberty already DOES with a real released game, in Korea and coming global in the next few months. Could be something different, but the results are good in either cases. No "channels" no loading screens, huge world and amounts of players (probably).
No
Yup actually they need to study TL is insane how many players you can have on the screen fighting with zero impact in performance , even better then Albion that that zones are divided by channels
really interesting to see you reacting, u should do more of these. Cant wait for next week, this will be the next era of MMOs
Needs more copium!
Mortal Online has been doing this for 17 years, this is not new technology.
Ahahaha
Fighting on a node line between two servers and becoming invincible was the worst, lol
Guild Wars 2 engine is a modified version of Guild Wars engine, which is in house engine, nothing to do with Unreal.
I really think intrepid prepared the terrain for a big dissapointment. They are going to show a server clusters arquitecture as thats what they have been working before, as that is what PS2 uses. Thats like 20 years behind the real Server Meshing server arquitecture..
The problem is that Epic has not implemented object container streaming into the Unreal Engine yet in the same way that the Star Engine handles it. I believe object container optimisations are on the roadmap for an Unreal 5.x update, but until it's in, either Intrepid will have to build their own or find another similar solution.
I guess they are allready working on that for a while. Im not sure but i guess the idea about servermashing isn't that new. i guess the idea is from 1995. I would assume they working on it since alpha 1 because they get some data out of this to see the requierements. Someone prob would need to look up for the hirings over that perticular time, if data is avable.
I think they will go with a static model, or maybe semi dynamic one to make it less material intense. Sad that there wasn't a stream, im so fucking curious now. :D
5:07 elwyn forest was it's own server. WoW basically did exactly this. Thats why thered be times when Thunder Bluffs was down on one server (because the hardware crashed) but the rest of of the world was fine.
And they did it without loading screens unelss you moved between continents.
The onky thing i can think kf tba tmakes this tech exciting is that its faster for a game that is more FPS. The old way worked for WoW but probably isnt as good for an FPS game like Star Citizen.
*stares in Eve Online*
No one tryed something like Server meshing because the risk to try it is to high for companys that are mainly profit orientated, at least the publishers.
But SC is fund raised by the community thats why they have the chance to try something like that so if the money wont run out i think we will see some legendary results.
I think then we will have some kind of Sword art Online moment when they rent there engine to other studios it will be like "The Seed" any then many crazy worlds will grow
if this is as advertised, backend offloading on assets, and not layering by another name, okay. But I do cope, not hope because down that way lies the crack cocaine of hype.
Star citizen can sell the technology when they are done.
so i understand about 1% of this but if it makes games suck less i'm 100% all-in on it
Xillin says HI. keep em coming.
very interesting.. sad that the livestreaming was delayed.. we will see why
Steven is sick that's why lol
gotta know calculus 2 for Star Citizen
its easier than you think tbh
@@kaleb5926 Then why haven't half a dozen other MMOs used it?
Enjoying more the debate in the chat than the video itself, sorry narc but the comments went god tier hehe
Would that mean The Division 2 has Server Meshing of some kind?
StarCitzen still broke it's promise of release dates, if they do this now, they need to cancel the game and remake it when they're ready to release instead of scamming people out of money.
No , division have just Basic channels
SC NEVER had a release date. How did they brake a release date? Are u drunk?
@@seveneternal7988 Holy shit man, guess you missed that era of delays back in alpha 1.0.. Go Check your History.
@@blackhorde22 holy shit man guess u missed the fact that SC was never in alpha 1.0. Check your iq with a medic.
@@blackhorde22 Seveneternal is correct. SC never had a release date.
Static server meshing has been around since UO. Many MMOs have seamless server transitions and have had them for years. Star Citizens intended version of meshing will hopefully one day be what they call dynamic server meshing.
The best way to describe this is with their intended goal: They want players to be on a large ship that is its own server that can interact in real time with other zones and ship servers in real time. This would allow for actual Star Wars size battles with capital ships and fighters and even FPS combat all at the same time.
you are confusing server meshing with cluster of servers. Dont be ignorant.
@@seveneternal7988 I have been following MMO server tech for 20 years and am a back end dev. UO had live server transition boundaries (people use to exploit them). I believe EQ, planeside, etc. Many other games we have long threads about it on spectrum. These were not dynamic, but static.
@@Diogenes76 You are confusing cluster of servers with server meshing. You are confusing a microserive with a servers arquitecture. PS2 uses a simple traditional old cluster of servers which has NOTHING to do with server meshing. Sever meshing is for un-limited persistent worlds. PS2 doesnt have any kind of sort of persistence.
Connecting servers and allowing players to move from one server to another seamless, thats easy, thats old, thats lazy. Many MMOs use it. Thats a cluster of severs. Thats a simple microservice.
Again, SM has nothing to do with that. SM is that and 999999 things more.
@@seveneternal7988 I think the mistake here is assuming that CIG owns this term when it has been around long before they started their implementation. Even though server meshing has been around a long time, CIG still does not have a basic implantation (hopefully soon).
The whole unlimited persistent worlds thing is an application of server meshing, it is not server meshing. CIG has spent the last couple of years refactoring their server into microservices. The new thing that CIG will hopefully bring to the table is dynamic real time meshing. The tech for the rest has been out for years. I will be really cool if they can pull it off, but they are years away from a practical PoC.
These conversations would be more interesting without being so angsty. It does not help your point and it really is interesting to talk about.
@@Diogenes76 CIG doesnt own the term, but CIG invented the term. And not only that, they invented many of the microservices that are needed for the server meshing and, therefore, they invented the server meshing - yet, they dont own it.
the server meshing WAS NEVER implemented, not even conceptualized, until CIG did so.
The unlimited persistent world thing IS the server meshing. CIG never refactored anything, SM is a compendium of microservices (i.e. SM is just OCS + replication layer + Hybrid). All needed for the end goal of Server Meshing. You keep not understanding that SM is not a microservice but a group of them, and you are confusing cluster of servers, a unique microservice, with the server meshing which again, is not a unique microservice.
Dynamic Server Meshing, same as server meshing, is a compedium of several microservices.
Eve online has been doing this for a decade
I am not sure really... like it sounds like a lot of garbage to me personally. What is described here is basically what Lineage 2 did 21 years ago, just on steroids. Surely adding physics to objects and scaling up the world is going to require new solutions but it's not a new concept or even technology. Entirety of Lineage 2 was free of loading screens and with multiple events happening simultaneously across the world. And before anyone says "Lineage 2 played like shit" yes we all know that and it had plenty of technical issues in general but glorifying server meshing as something new is like CNN reinventing sailing and calling it "future of naval transportation" xD a hard cope to excuse almost a billion dollar investment with no ETA on horizon.
I appreciate you trying to help learn more about server meshing, but I’d refrain from comparing AOC to SS. If AOC ends up remotely like SS it would be a tragedy. Just because they are trying to create a new technology doesn’t get rid of the fact they have led their supporters on for so long with no true end in sight. That’s worst case scenario for an indie mmo project.
lets keep in mind that in SC we voted for a game in permanent growth. We ordered CIG to do this and we are vigilant that the SC scope ALWAYS goes up.
@@seveneternal7988 Yup. People tend to forget about the majority vote back in 2014 that gave Roberts carte blanche to make the game as big as possible with the funds that they were given.
Narc, stick to the game design discussion, you're great at that. Keep the technical discussion to the minimum, please, thank you.
SC relabelled a buzzword, so cool
This tech will enable adcanced game systems you should normally find in single player games in mmos
Give this man a key
i love how not a single bit of water or boats/sailing or anythign water content related has yet to be shown at all
You missed the part where the trade caravan turned into a boat and sailed down a river way back when? Lmfao
Ashes of Convention
So they are copying Star Citizen's tech now?
Great, another tech demo that will take forever to get anywhere and wants to be a game.
Aye waddup bois
Likely bought the tec from rsi
RSI isnt selling the tech, which would require selling the engine which they said they dont have any plans to do so currently.
i would say yes.
the livestream starting on my bday is wild to me ngl
grab 1 boix
z
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Most YT video’s are trash compared to SpaceTomato’s 😂
Conclusion, Ashes just stole the "Server Meshing" term from Star Citizen (indeed CIG invented the term) to do smt else different just for maketing reasons. Nice!
I’ve have been introduced to server meshing well before star citizen.. pretty sure they didn’t coin the term
Star Citizen didnt invent server meshing you doofus
@@justinpatrick9249 that is radically impossible and I ask you to please provide me a source of such thing.
@@justinpatrick9249 Biggest cap I’ve seen yet.
@@wow2when117server meshing has been in games before but not to the scale that star citizen has done which is a whole different level of tech and I do agree they can take claim to real scale server meshing claims
They probably use just some clustering technique, which is the exact same thing which every single MMO, live service, website with traffic use for years. Just wrap it with fancy words. Even the server meshing is just iteration of something we have for years and it is just expected.
No, obviously no. SM is a group of techs that were NEVER put together before, and some of these techs did not exist until CIG started to develop the server meshing, such as the OCS, which is a fundamental part of Server Meshing and ONLY exists now that CIG created it.
Dont be the typical ignorant in the internet. If SM was "just an iteration of something we had for years" i am sure that we would have had that FOR YEARS. Yet, we dont, and yet, there is not even under development any game which would use a real SM, apart from SC.
lmao clearly the information was an overload on your synapses.
@@CHIM3RA. hahahahha
@@rawdrakeman8152 I work with server infrastructure for 10+ years, so I think I know something about it :) I am not decrease amount of skills and inventions needed to do something like SM, I am just saying, its just iteration of terms we have for years and that is server clusters and that is what is expected with MMOs :)
@@klimaluky "server infraestructure" doesnt even exist as a job role. I can tell so because i am a real Network Engineer with over 20 years of experience.
I can tell u that you have no clue what u are talking about. SM was NEVER even mentioned on a book before SC used it and most of the techs that SC used for SM are unique and inhose developments by them and they do not exist.
I can prove this VERY simple way. Name me ONE system, or game, that uses Object Container Streaming, which is an essential part of server meshing.
-Exactly.
You are confusing Server Meshing with servers clusters which are NOT the same, SM is a WAY bigger system and server clusters is just a microservice more. You are so lost in this conversation that I wont even try to explain what is a microservice and what SM is NOT a microservice but a (big) amount of them, one of them indeed server clusters, but thats just one of them.