I blew up the solar inverter! (CHAdeMO V2G Project)
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2022
- Uh oh. Boom! I wrecked it!
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So, I was getting ready to show off my Vehicle to Home project at the upcoming MREA Energy Fair. www.theenergyfair.org/
As part of that, I really needed to clean up the wiring and get all the switches and balance of system inside some enclosures. After doing that, the inverter no longer worked! What happened!
The fuses were blown. Everything else looked good. I put in new fuses. Tried again. Nothing. I checked THOSE fuses. Also blown. WHAT WAS GOING ON?
It took me a while to puzzle out. I had to disconnect some of the wiring to get it all cleaned up and back in the box. The cable from the car to the DC fuse box does not follow DC wiring color conventions. When I put it all back together, I had accidentally REVERSED the polarity to the inverter! It got 360 volts DC BACKWARDS, instantly frying the inverter and blowing the fuses!
Once I figured that out, I was able to use my multimeter in continuity testing mode to check the PV input. The + and - were directly shorted to each other! Oh no! No wonder fuses would blow instantly when connecting the car to the inverter! This likely meant that the MOSFETS were blown in shorted position! The inverter would now mostly be junk.
I had another piece of an inverter power module that I got from AliExpress. At least I could still use the nice power connections and disconnects with the H6 inverter. I tried testing the cheap basic power unit with the car. A few minutes later, I heard a POP and that quit working as well.
It was NOT my day.
And now I wouldn't be able to show off my project this coming weekend.
I worked on something else for a few minutes and finally had a realization. The Solar City Delta H6 Inverter has TWO solar inputs...
I checked the second input and crossed my fingers. It did NOT show continuity between the + and - of the input, although the first input did. Did that mean input Two was still good?
I was actually down to only one last fuse, so I loaded that into the CHAdeMO handle. I didn't want to do any more wiring and rewiring in my input box, so I used some brass tube as "dummy" fuses to complete the circuit in to the car. If there was an issue, the fuse in the handle would still do its job.
I connected everything up and went through the sequence of power up when... The display on the inverter came on! It was still alive!
So, the good news is that I only HALF blew up the inverter! Better than that, the fuses and other safety features all worked exactly as intended. In fact, the only way a person would even see that things were NOT working was the inverter display wouldn't come on. There was never any actual explosion, noise, or "letting out of the magic smoke".
I'm hoping I can quick get everything cleaned-up, make it portable, and show it off at the Energy Fair June 24-26, 2022. (I won't be there on Sunday though, so come see me on Friday or Saturday!)
Until next time, stay charged up!
-Ben
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At least you didn't let out the magic smoke!
Glad you've got it back up and running
Nice troubleshooting. You have some cool projects going.
Glad its not totally totalled. Had a funny moment on my solar invert the other day. Its an old eversolar inverter and it has two string inputs on the outside. I have put more watts of panels than it can probably handle but not by much and they are older panels so not as efficient as they once were. Anyway the other day it didnt spring into life in the morning. I unhooked everything looked inside. One of the contactors was mildly different on its front surface to the other. Looks as you say completely unspectacular. I remember johannes hubner fiximg his evc contactors with a hammer to free the sticking contacts. I was less brutish and just flick mine a couple of times with my fingers. Put it back together and onto the wall and it working again. I think you will be able to trace out the broken input given time as you have a good reference on pv2. Curiously on my eversolar unit the second pv2 inputs on the pcb were unpopulated so i think somehow the unit puts the 2 array input in series automatically but ive no idea how. Seems unlikely that it would parallel them and i have uneven strings 15 versus 8 panels. Anyway great work.
Glad it worked out.
Love it!
Bummer. But good it still works! It's good to check PV inputs carefully or rather the type of MPPT utilized. Many types of MPPT periodically short circuit the PV input to more rapidly follow the true maximum power point... Connecting a battery on an input with that functionality would end badly for the inveter. But hey nice setup! I have 48V DC inverters on my house and have thought about using a buck converter off the chademo to drop the near 400V to 48V.
Amazing. Would love to hook up my old leaf to power my home.
Maybe there was reverse polarity protection that is shorted now.
I’m trying to better understand my h6 inverter, can you share some wiring diagrams etc? I would like to know about the afci.
Great video sir. I am finding it hard to get info with regards the chademo. May I ask what pins you used to allow car to open contacts to gain access to the battery DC volts. I am in the process of trying to find a cheap chademo socket as I want to use my Nissan's 62kw battery to run house. My issue has been trying to find how I use the pins in the plug to allow the nissan to open its contactor to battery. Can you help sir. Gino UK
I have 2 inverter off this one.. i move to puerto rico i have to have the ability to use the off grid mode to support my house in this constan blackout
Hi @BenjaminNelson, nice work there - I'm doing something very similar with a Leaf at the moment and I came across your channel. If you don't mind me asking, what is the part number of that Leaf precharge resistor module? and do you know what the value of the resistor is? ie. what ohms and what power rating? How are you currently working out how long to have it ON for before the bypass relay kicks in? and what do those 3 magical switches do? :)
From my experience with other devices, generally either protection diodes or mosfets fail short like to ground and short the system so it blows your fuse automatically. You could probably find the part that shorted by probing continuity across it and seeing if it's a dead short. As long as you can see the part number you can replace it easily.
There’s a LOT of electronics inside this inverter. I didn’t see any that looked obviously blown to the naked eye. It would take quite some time to probe them all!
Of course, ideally, I’d love to know exactly what blew and where it was.
@@BenjaminNelsonX They should be placed close to your input connections to be able to protect everything after them.
My buddy blew up a SolarEdge 11.4kW inverter (overloaded string) and it was very loud. Blew the capacitors completely up and their yummy juice drained. We was being a jerk that day so we all had a good laugh at his expense. Good times.
doa! Cool, just blew the fuses. Those aren't cheap though... Whew, one more MPPT input left.
I have this same inverter.. I believe that you will be limited to 4000W only using one of the two available MPPT inputs. Also, have you successfully tested it with 350VDC on that PV2 MPPT input?
The problem with most inverters and especially solar generators today is that the vast majority of them use, cheap, lightweight high frequency, transformerless inverter technology. Because they lack a transformer to isolate the battery from your AC loads, it only takes a single MOSFET to short to ground in these inverters and they will pass high amperage, high voltage DC current though to your AC loads that can start a fire in your connected appliances. A much better and safer inverter technology is a low frequency, transformer based inverter. They run much cooler, will last far, far longer and won't burn your appliances, EV or home to the ground.
Ah so the inverter was ready for two strings is what I get out of this? Good thing they have proper separation built in! Also is that an incandescent light next to the setup? 👀
Yeah LED lights are sensitive to voltage and frequency swings
Incandescent lights are really just a big light emitting resistor so they're good for testing setups like this where something might go wrong and cause a big swing
Also because its a big resistor its good for slowing down current if needed
The bulb is a 100 watt incandescent. It’s a nice simple load and easy way to show the inverter being on and active.
@@st3rox Ok that makes sense.
You probably already know this but for the benefit of others I received some great advice from Damien Maguire for working with high voltage DC.
Put a couple of incandescent light bulbs in series with your connections until You know you have it correct. That way any mistakes causing a short will light the bulbs and not kill the system.
I had the proper resistor in line. The issue was the reverse polarity!
Light bulbs ARE nice in that they give you some visual feedback!
@@BenjaminNelsonX I did the same thing to my setup with a Nissan Leaf Contactor block and my inverter but in my case I was saved by the resistor burning out. I had a 10 amp fuse in line that didn't blow. A light bulb might have saved your inverter as a current limiter. A 60W 240V light bulb has a resistance around 1kR so two of them would have put a 2kR resistor in line.
And double check your contractors are still working. Mine is now a short circuit but that was a different cock up. 😒
Contactors are all good!
@@BenjaminNelsonX
Light bulbs not only light up, but also increase in resistance when lit, so little current flows, which can save a component, which a resistor or fuse won't.
Incidentally, red and black used to be the standard colours in UK domestic electric systems, red for live (you call it line or hot) black for negative.
So us in the UK, red and black is pretty much always as above. Incidentally UK built cars also follow the red for + and black for - on the vehicle battery connections.
So a pre-charge resistor in general is in the battery bank?
Typical commercial electric cars have a pre-charge resistor and a pair of contactors IN the battery pack.
When the car is OFF, the contactors open and the battery is completely disconnected from everything. When you turn the car on, it quickly precharges to the motor controller and then closes the contactor. There is then power to the drive system and you can operate the car.
In my project here, I'm repurposing a Nissan Leaf contactor and pre-charge resistor. The resistor is rated at 30 ohm, but is a large ceramic style, so it can handle quite a bit of power for the brief moment that current is flowing through it.
So the pre-charging is a must? To prevent inrush currents? I’m working on a similar project… (camper)
Also, i’ve been warned there might be an issue if the car is driving… to much rimple on the DC?
You definitely want to precharge anytime you have a battery and power equipment with capacitors that can cause a large inrush current.
I can’t drive the car while powering out through the CHADEMO. There’s a safety feature that prevents driving off while being plugged in.
I have several blown up units but they had blown up in a different spot so I could probably give you an entire mppt board.
PV at 300VDC is equivalent to 16 solar panels in series. Is the inverter rated for that?
The inverter is rated for up to 570VDV on the solar input.
I live in Tennessee I have purchased four of these I have a backup just in case you need to purchase another one
Thanks for the offer. I might take you up on that. These have been very interesting units to experiment with.
Awsome video. Can I please ask if this is an mppt solar controller? Does mppt cause any issues when we change solar panels for a car battery?
Yes, it's an MPPT solar controller. Pretty much anything now except the most basic/inexpensive solar charge controllers are MPPT.
The issue is that there are a few different ways to do MPPT. At least one of the techniques involves shorting the solar input and checking the change in voltage. That would NOT be a good thing if a high-voltage EV car battery was connected!
Other than accidentally reversing the polarity to one of the solar inputs, this has been a very interesting project. I've pulled relatively large power draws from my car, through the inverter, and out to 120/240V AC several times.
@@BenjaminNelsonX That's interesting that it behaves the way it does despite it being MPPT input - do you have any theories why it does work?
On Car charging I’m a total newby
What current levels can you charge with this model inverter.
This inverter is good for up to 6,000 watts continuous. Or about 25A at 240V.
Now you know that the wiring is different, be sure to make a label for inside that switch box!
I've had instances in the past where I've gone "Okay, this is different/non standard! I must not do X or Y!" Then I've got stressed or tired or short on time, and I end up doing EXACTLY THAT THING. and BOOM!
Great work Ben :) Glad you had a backup circuit to get things running. Are you planning on taking out the main board and fixing the circuit in the future?
Yes, exactly right about the labeling!
Once I figured this out, I made some markings, taped off the PV1 input, etc.
Fixing the PV1 input may be beyond my electronics skills. If it was a single discreet part that was through soldered and obviously blown, then perhaps I can.
I'll probably take a look at it, it's just not high on my priority list at the moment as I have more pressing work to do!
@@BenjaminNelsonX Good to know! Because I grew up in the UK and were used to the UK wiring system I always quadruple check things before doing anything here. When I had to wire up the mini splits, I went to the back of the garage a million times to check everything was right.
The last laugh? Electrical passed inspection (the bit I did)
The heat pump install did not (the units were not screwed to the ground - but I didn't do this).
Is that 3d printed plug available somewhere publicly?
www.thingiverse.com/thing:121581
Maybe stupid question but: Why not use the DC Battery connector as Input for the inverter instead of PV entries ? Like if you were running on backup power source I mean. Maybe this inverter does not support 400V battery ?
The Battery Input on this inverter was really only designed for the ORIGINAL Tesla Powerwall battery, which is actually EVEN HIGHER voltage than what the car battery pack is. The battery input also expects some communications signals from the battery, which I don't have and don't know the details of.
It sounds like you blew some kind of protection device. It doesn't need to be burnt. It's located very close to the connector. You'll have to remove the PCB from the unit to examine. You'll probably have to do some reverse engineering since schematics are probably not available.
Hi Ben, I’ve been wondering if the iMiev supports V2G officially like the 2nd generation Leaf, I’m assuming not which is why you have taken the path you have. Thanks 👍
I believe that the iMiEV DOES support V2G.
However, I do not know what the specific required CAN signals would be to activate the internal relay in the car. The "Hack" on this project is knowing where the relay is and activating it manually.
If I knew and could generate the CANBUS signals, that would really allow me to make this project slick and also be able to use it with any standard Nissan Leaf.
@@BenjaminNelsonX thanks for the comment
Yes, they do.
They implemented at Pikes Peak, and later pushed the change to production...
In Japan, you can get a Mitsubishi inverters to directly connect to the CHAdeMO contact.
I think it would be better to say the IMiEV and the Leaf both support bidirectional charging - neither supports V2G per se as you need an inverter externally to created the V2G support.
huh... I wonder, if the PV1 DC input was still working... could you do dual source DC? could you use that to transition DC sources on the fly?
Such as between a stationary battery and a CHAdeMO source? Start on the stationary, add the car, remove the stationary, etc?
looking again, I see it has a battery I put/output aswell. so maybe this idea is overkill?
The battery input was designed for the original Tesla Powerwall. It was very particular and also uses some communications signals to be able to activate the battery. NOT easy to use that battery input right now. On the other hand, the Photovoltaic input was a broad range that included that of a typical electric car.
@@BenjaminNelsonX I see.. I was under the impression that one should not attach a battery to a PV PPT capable inverter input? Was I under the wrong impression and it's more doable than I thought?
"Should not" is probably the best approach.
The big issue is that batteries have the potential for HIGH CURRENT in a way that PV does NOT. That's a big deal if the inverter or solar charge controller intentionally shorts the + and - together as a way to check the maximum current. That's fine for panels, but directly shorting a high voltage battery is a big no-no!
I've been wanting to do this project for years, but was trying to find information on what technique different inverters used for checking the PV current for MPPT. I don't even remember where I found the information that it would work OK with this particular inverter.
The other big thing is to USE GOOD FUSES! If things go wrong, you definitely want proper fusing. I've been using fast blow fuses rated for 600VDC.
@@BenjaminNelsonX excellent explanation... Thanks for confirming not to assume this shouldn't be attempted with knowing for sure the inverters MPPT methods.
Sizzle sizzle foomp.
The best part was that all the safety features worked exactly as they were supposed to. I couldn’t even tell what the issue was at first until checking the fuses with the continuity meter!
Hello kita hadir lagi teman
There are varistors... PV1 has varistor that has shorted.... It is like fuse for over current.
No, a varistor isn't polarity sensitive just voltage. It could be a diode that has shorted though, across the input as a protection device. I would imagine reverse polarity would be fairly common with installation hence a protection diode across the PV inputs
@@myozone take that board out and measure.... Is the short on that switch board or further
If the fuses worked your PV 1 input wouldn’t be shorted out. Two strikes your out.
Fuses don't protect against reverse polarity. They protect against overcurrent.
Fuses for confuses