This is where you're wrong about the Cold One cav - "Predatory Senses" means they get increased visibility over stalking units. "Primal Instincts" is the one where they lose control and rampage - and only Horned Ones have that. Dark elf Cold Ones rampage, Lizardmen Cold Ones don't.
@@CapybaraConnoisseur89 Honestly, they shouldn't. Maybe I'm missing info in some Warhammer Army Book rules and it's detailed there, but it's the DE that we are talking about, they should a that point completely beat those cold ones to total submission and then losing control of them in battle doesn't make much sense to me
Hey Legend, you missed the Sotek building requirement for the Ark of Sotek Bastilodon. It makes it less convenient to recruit, but the unit is still a very good, cost-effective unit, especially in Tehenhauin's army.
25:15 "Since it doesn't require any additional building". What is this giant yellow arrow pointing towards the sotek build chain? Nah, propably nothing important.
@@gr8oone007 sotek building isn't as bad though since it gives untainted and you have multiple skaven and vampite factions close to most of you starting positions.
"Probably more of a multiplayer thing" -Legend talking about feral cold ones. That is where you are wrong, sir. Feral cold ones are garbage in every single circumstance, including MP, for the same reasons you've listed. Slow, shitty in melee, rampages, and for their cost you can get 2 chameleon skinks (which are the best lizardmen unit in MP.).
I could have sworn ark of sotek requires the sotek temple chain. So even though it's T2 you need another building so realistically it's T3. But I might be wrong
no no you're right, the game shows that you need the building for salamander hunting pack as well, which is T3. tho i believe you don't need this building to recruit the ark of sotek bastiladons if you play as sotek
A lot of Lizardmen units that used to require 2 buildings have been streamlined to be recruited with a single building. I believe ark of sotek is among them.
"We'll go with melee monsters and the finish up with MISSILE monsters. Let's start with eh, the, ah, salamander hunting pack" Why did I laugh so much at this.
Whatever he meant it's actually funny because both hunting packs take ages to fire and end up getting used like War Lions or Dire Wolves, which they are not good at. It's hard to get them to fire before being closed down by enemies and they don't have skirmish mode.
@@AlasimT all the tier 5 ones are, but I found the khemrian warsphinx to outclass the other two by a long shot. Its animation us constant barrage of arrows really ups its durability and damage output. It a necrosphinx is S then khemrian warsphinx is S+
On some Blessed units I like to use: Blessed Saurus warriors with shields - improved stats and perfect vigour. You can get these going toe to toe with black orcs on VH/Leg campaigns and they murder weaker infantry (of course, get the techs and red line abilities for generals if you want to use infantry as they still perform relatively weakly.) Best used as support for monsters) Blessed Carnosaur - speed 100 so it goes like a rocket, these are awesome. Blessed Teradon with Fireleach Bolas - Have about twice the ammo of the standard variant. I threw two of these in an emergency ROR army once and never looked back, they can do unbelievable amounts of damage, in the region of 20k-25k against infantry armies, especially in a siege.
I like keeping a Blessed Carnosaur in reserve. That thing can hunt characters and swing hard against the likes of Malekith, or Grimgor, or whoever is hassling you, and can turn an emergency Kroxigor Ancient crapstack from a speed bump, into an army gutter. Blessed Chameleon Skinks are probably my least favorite. Chameleon Skinks are fine, I like one or two in an army, but, nothing says underwhelming like popping 8 chameleon Skinks into an army 'cuz they're what you have, and taking forever to deal no damage. Plus I always seem to get a ton of them.
I think the Blessed Carno comes with 50% Magic Resistance too And Chameleon Skinks work great as an early game kite doomstack but mediocre support in a fair fight
IMO blessed Stegadons are by far the best blessed units because of perfect vigour. The only real problem with normal Stegadons is that they get tired after a few shots and when it's time to melee they are always exhausted.
I know it's not a great unit but whenever I put a few blessed horned ones into an army I have a great time with them. Reasonably fast, stats similar to melee cavalry, no rampage and pretty high entity health makes them work way better than their normal counterparts in my experience.
The coatl's melee animation was improved in the latest patch, they aren't as derpy anymore. Imo they really deserve doomstack status as 1) they can be spammed for Tiktaktoe 2) a couple of them are great in any doomstack
Its hard to say they are doomstackable for lizardmen in general as they are only cheaper than a stegastack with tiktakto. But definitely deserve it while under him.
my impatience usually has me skipping to the end of these videos but homie legend spent all of his mobile data plan to stream in hopes his internet would come back, gotta give back some of the dedication and watch through all of it now
Solar bastiladons at tier 3 have changed my early game kroq campaigns in a big way. I put 1 rev crystal per 4 or 5 solars. They're not great in auto resolve but they really help maintain momentum on the campaign trail until you can get a skink Oracle. It's good to be able to have a semi doomstack before turn 75 and kroq makes them dirt cheap.
I doomstack those solar bastiladons due to the price compared to stegadon. Stegadons are obviously better but doomstacking solar bastiladons are cheaper and they hit hard. I don't know why it is only an A tier instead of doomstack tier.
A mate of mine got a blessed Stegadon in a recent coop campaign in one of his first turns. Like, just a god damn blessed Ballista Stegadon while the AI runs around with tier 1 units. Needless to say he had his fun.
Correction: Solar Engine can DEFINITELY damage walls. Have done, do do, and will continue to do using them for that purpose. Also: I seem to recall Blessed units not getting stat increases from their lord/faction, such as their red-line buff skills and Legendary Lord Skills.
I like how Legend hovered over Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek and says it doesn't require additional building, with big flashing arrow pointing at Shrine of Sotek!! Love you Legend! Thanks for video. Just wanna add Lizardmen, VCoast and Vampire Counts buildings and recruitment is such a garbage, you need Tier 3 building to get Tier 2 etc.
Just here to say that these tier lists are actually incredibly helpful even though they're kind of a meme. Really appreciate the thought and effort you're putting into them. Hope you do every race 👍
@@Malus1531 that's true, these lists are only accurate for very hard battle difficulty. Though I have to say in my experience melee infantry is still pretty unremarkable/disappointing even on normal difficulty
@@SL-vj6df On normal Saurus will kill their way through almost every single unit in the game, come out the other side with minimal casualties, and then kill another unit for good measure. The only exception is the most elite infantry a faction gets, and even then some tier 4 and 5 will lose with the right techs and skills. They will assault up ladders into almost everything and win. Chaos warriors can do the same. Saurus are A tier on Normal, and solidly B on hard. On Very Hard, where all a unit can do is tarpit, they're useless.
Its been quite a while since I played lizardmen but as of that time solar engines definitely worked on walls/towers so ballistadons are not your only arty unit.
I'm surprised he put normal salamanders below ancient ones. Because they seem to DEMOLISH whatever they fire at recently. Seriously, their damage output feels extremely good with the only downside being how they need to stand in a perfect formation before they start firing.
Legend almost never recruits them. Ancient Salamanders were very strong when they first came out... They were nerfed shortly after, though. I guess legend just hasn't used them in so long that he forgot.
And considering it needs it own buildchain separate from the other strong dinos. They are alright I guess but why ever recruit them over Stegadons. Should be a solid B tier imo.
@@itarH not only early game tho. Even before getting to bigger monsters I never had any problems against armoured infantry and cav just by getting a pair of them in the army: their AP damage and splash are actually good. Even despite they completely suck in melee for some unknown reason.
@@itarH Yeah, Salamanders shine and truly come into their own in combats that end up at the "shitshow mopup" stage. One or two volleys can absolutely devastate a unit if it hits from the right angle, they can completely clown on partial infantry units on the charge, they have good autoresolve weight, they are huge help in sieges, they shut down a lot of skirmish cav, really, Salamander packs are like the perfect remedy to a lot of the early game problems Lizardmen can struggle with, and I shake my head every time I see an early game, cobbled together army with no Salamanders.
Ooh, I'd love to see a Skaven tier list. But this one is super helpful. I'm trying to play Lizardmen for the first time and I have no idea what I'm doing with their roster for recruiting
Saurus Warrios and temple guard are very good, even on legendary. The reality is ranged is better on any difficulty. even on legendary melee works fine and the difficulty buffs get overshaddowed by your lord skills
@C U Next Tuesday yeah I only play legendary and use melee all the time. People forget he wastes ammo, corner camps and abuses the AI every single fight to make certain doomstacks viable. You can smash legendary difficulty with balanced armies by just playing your faction well
Love these videos! If you press F11 while in a browser you will "zoom in" and only display the tiermaker webpage. You can after that futher zoom in by holding down the ctrl button and scrolling the mouse wheel. Just press F11 to leave the zoomed in view again.
How are they balanced? They're cavalry is either expensive or total trash, the armies are just crapstacks basically and then all you rely on is on missile. How is it balanced?
Can't wait for the next one! I love tier lists because it's a clear, easy and fun way to see what units are best to utilise in campaigns and what not to use. Especially looking forward to Vampire Coast/Counts!
It's a shame he uses the cheating legendary difficulty which considers difficulty by making half of the entire not work. It be the opposite if the game decided to give all units an extra 20 percent missile resist.
I remember when I first started playing this game, the lizardmen were by far the faction the AI was giving me the most trouble with. Probably didn't help that my very first campaign was with Malus Darkblade either... I did much better against them with Fellheart (getting to know DE mechanics helped a lot too...)
Feral cold ones are super cool, but they're not supported by any lord traits or technology, not even stuff which affects "cold ones". They're a sad footnote in the roster for campaign at the moment :(
Some of the blessed units are should be 2 tiers above their none-blessed versions, some other ones should be a tier lower than their normal ones(If your first blessed mission gives you skink skirmishers, saurus spears or cold one spears you should restart the campaign because you just got scammed)
If Legend loves the blessed stegadons that much, he should consider a Nikai campaign, considering you can keep buying more and more with his favor of the old ones thing 😉
It absolutely is capable of that. It makes a totally viable Tier 3 doomstack until you have the time, money and tier 4 buildings available to build your first Stegadon stack.
As someone who enjoys the game but doesn't have a ton of time to trial and error or research, these videos are great. A basic outline of what to be recruiting to enjoy a faction without getting rolled for using hot trash makes trying something new, or retooling your current armies, seem far less daunting
Something I like about these videos is as Legend is talking about units and making the tier list you hear the campaign map music in the background so I just imagine that's what you hear everytime he's around doing anything.
Small thing to point out regarding the vid; The Bastilidon Solar Engine can also damage walls and towers, being the 2nd siege engine monster available to the Lizardmen - they're just not necessarily as good at the role with their shorter range compared to the Stegadon. Aside from that, I will say the rarity of the Blessed units has me appreciate the campaigns that allow you to get them easier: Oxyotl gets more regular missions that unlock them, and Nakai can outright buy (most of) them with enough favour... making a Doomstack+ of Blessed Stegadons almost worth suffering through his campaign on its own!
I use life magic to restore full health to all surviving entities so that the revivification crystal brings back a dead entity every time it's effect triggers. Life magic heals WAY better but does not resurrect anything. Once you doomstack monsters its useless but early game it can save a lot of replenishment time as long as you pair the 2.
I never liked using the crystal or life slaan. They just take so long to heal so little that it seems much more worth it to run a fire slaan to kill hundreds of enemy units and more units that can heal with tech research for better replenishment
Please do a tierlist for EVERY RACE! I'm loving these videos so much, even though I've been playing Wh2 on legendary for almost two years non-stop, and I already know how units perform :D But anyway, please do. Love it. Will like and comment under every video.
I've really been looking forward to a lizard tier list because whenever I play as them, I'm never sure what to recruit besides stegadons, and carnosaurs. This was very helpful in expanding my options.
VH/VH or legendary. I use a ton of melee and do my best to work on fantastic flanks and surrounds. Something I just hate about not having a "realistic" army. It's hard sometimes but when the game gets easy.... Make it tougher! Good content LOTW
Love these, just finished watching/studying the high/dark elves tier videos and was sad because I didn't think you would come out with any more any time soon. Boy I was surprised to wake up and see this video up, 1 hour after it was uploaded lol. Thanks Legend 👍
So, I didn't see anyone else mention this, but you said Stegadons are the only artillery unit in the lizardmen roster. Right after talking about the other artillery unit in the lizardmen roster, the Basildon with Solar Engine. I actually really like them for taking down walls, less so with towers, but still. They can absolutely do it, and they do a pretty good job at it.
Good stuff. Surprised at how many B and up there were. I figured the roster would be more lopsided. Kinda makes me want to start a new lizardmen campaign to try play around with some of them.
Small point, perhaps, but Bastiladon solar engines can damage towers and walls much like Stegodons, so Stegos aren't the only artillery unit. I often recruit Bastiladons over Stegos if I'm in a hurry or pressed for cash.
These are amazing! Probably my favorite videos alongside the Legendary Lord comparisons. These videos help because they explain my innate thought of "why do these cold one units suck so much?".
I’ve been having surprising amount of success using red crested skinks vs skaven. They are really able to chase after fleeing skaven and cut them down (which skaven are fleeing 75% of the time) Tragic seeing the badass temple guard in trash tier though :(
I'd like to see this list redone for Warhammer 3. Maybe Temple Guard got a buff I don't know about, but for me they're just immovable objects once they get into melee and are extremely good at pinning the enemy down for Horned Ones or Fireleech Bola Pteradons or spellcasters to blast down the enemy, and they'll honestly shred through pretty much any non-elite infantry and won't even do too badly against elite infantry.
I think I would put chameleon skinks in A tier for overall usefulness. They're decently cheap, they're tier 2, and they'll happily beat basically anything you have to fight before about turn 70 except pure cavalry because they're fast enough to kite infantry and have 40% missile resist. You'll transition out of them as anyone but Oxyotl, but they handily solve the "what do I do before tier 4" problem the Lizardmen have.
I believe there is a bunch of comments like mine but Ark of Sotek is T3 unit because it requires a T3 Slamanders Building. Game even points this with a yellow pointer at 25:10 Also Feral Stegadons are not that bad, I'd put it at C - probably it's not worth to recruit them but as part of RoPG army they are pretty handy and strong enough. P.S. Can't believe that you rated Ancient Salamanders that high. They are so squishy, they have twice less hitpoints than Stegadon, they are really B at most
I definitely do agree with all of this. The chameleon skinks in my opinion are only good for oxyotl but for me personally I don't use the chameleon skinks much.
Nakai can recruit blessed stegadons through his faction mechanics. It is funny having 20 in a campaign, even though it is only feasible in the late game.
Ripperdactyls are probably the best melee unit during sieges. Their wall offense is simply crazy. Edit… and blastiladons can also damage walls/towers. :)
Legend, you should do updated lists for Warhammer 3. The Kroxigors now have the Spawn-kun sinergy with the Skinks and in general melee infantry works differently in Warhammer 3, making your tier list probably outdated.
As someone who plays on very hard campaign but normal battle difficulty, it’s kind of jarring to see Saurus in trash. They’re definitely expensive, but they’re also absolute murder machines when the A.I. doesn’t get melee cheats.
Legend, this is a really good info video, I love the format and the idea behind it but a little bit of correction is needed: Bastiladon (Ark of Sotek) is a tier 2 unit but it requires Sacrificial altar of Sotek which is a tier 3 building = it's a tier 3 unit effectively. I don't know the reasoning behind this design philosophy, for me it's weird but it doesn't change the fact that it needs a T3 building.
I do use chameleon skink as a doomstack (especially with oxyotl) and it works dramatically well. And btw it’s kinda cheap for a doomstack. Try it you wont regret (especially against norsca u can legit afk during battle and come back at the end without any deads).
I'm really enjoying these tier lists. Please keep doing these! They're informative and entertaining. Whom will you do next? Could you do Vampires next please?
@@itarH Yes they are. Just because they have 1-2 grenades doesn't make them ranged units, especially since they can't attack flying units. Only Ekrund Miners have enough ammo to somewhat count as a ranged unit
@@houndofculann1793 oh sorry. Just read my comment again and i see its very confusing. With "he" I'm referring to Legend. So "i guess Legend means Iron Breakers when he says there will be Melee Infantry in Tier A."
Still would like to see you include heroes and their mounted variants in these tier rankings. Since a hero's abilities can turn an otherwise meh unit into something special.
I agree. I hardly ever recruit Feral Carnosuars because I just have Saurus Scar veterans in the army performing that role and they do not rampage. You are going to have Skink Priests in army as well so 1 will in the end be on Engine of the Gods. Skink Oracle is one of the best heroes in the game so is a no brainer. Those units are made almost obsolete because of the Lizards Heroes.
Anybody else think that the lizard men roster is just one step away from being on par with races like high elves and dark elves? Let me provide some food for thought: 1. What if croxigors were as fast and hard hitting as minotaurs? Sacred croxigors moved faster, hit harder, and had high ward save. 2. Chameleon skinks have armor piercing. Chameleon stalkers were not a hybrid unit, but instead an archer unit with more range, damage, speed, and magic attack. 3. Tier 1 and 2 Calvary would be cold ones and horned ones. Beyond that you could get increasingly powerful packs of raptors. They have dinosaurs. They should have some of the best cavalry in the game. 4. The feral troglodon has at least the same range as the ancient salamander. One is an anti infantry ranged monster. The other should be able to snipe large units from the same distance and probably do far more damage since it is single target. 5. Troglodon, ancient salamander, and carnosaur units also have mounted variants with complimentary equipment like stegadons. Right now it feels like the lizard men were an afterthought to the other three original races of warhammer 2.
Yeah. When it first launched the Lizardmen were strong as hell. As time has gone on they haven’t gotten the love and attention beyond some additions to their roster (lord, hero, and units). Update after update it’s felt they’ve kinda been left behind. It’s also rough to see their best LL is kroq gar who’s their first LL (alongside Mazdamundi who’s trash outside of fights). Most other factions are affected by power creep, but all of them kinda fail to support the faction that the lizardmen need to be on par with their rivals from the elves.
Get a girl who looks at you the same way Legend looks at Stegadons
Man, i would but they never accept my non-aggression pacts :(
highly recommended
10/10
You need to pay them for confederation
Well if she's into making doomstack she'll start collecting all the guy she look at like that tho
This is where you're wrong about the Cold One cav - "Predatory Senses" means they get increased visibility over stalking units. "Primal Instincts" is the one where they lose control and rampage - and only Horned Ones have that. Dark elf Cold Ones rampage, Lizardmen Cold Ones don't.
Another episode of Legend shitting on Rampage, love it.
"Rampage is the most anti-player mechanic in the game..."
I wish Cold One Knights from DE didn't have any Rampage and more entities, one of my fav units in the lore but they suck against anything.
@@CapybaraConnoisseur89 ironically it does make sense in the lore as cold ones are specifically described as fierce but very, very stupid
@@CapybaraConnoisseur89 Honestly, they shouldn't. Maybe I'm missing info in some Warhammer Army Book rules and it's detailed there, but it's the DE that we are talking about, they should a that point completely beat those cold ones to total submission and then losing control of them in battle doesn't make much sense to me
@@Diego000793 stupid lizards are riding even more stupid feral lizards. What did you expect?
Hey Legend, you missed the Sotek building requirement for the Ark of Sotek Bastilodon. It makes it less convenient to recruit, but the unit is still a very good, cost-effective unit, especially in Tehenhauin's army.
Also the cold ones need their own building and he usually rails against such things.
25:15 "Since it doesn't require any additional building".
What is this giant yellow arrow pointing towards the sotek build chain?
Nah, propably nothing important.
I can hear it now: "TEHENHAUIN!!"
@@gr8oone007 sotek building isn't as bad though since it gives untainted and you have multiple skaven and vampite factions close to most of you starting positions.
Also Feral Bastilodons are xheaper Then a unit of Saurus and blow them out of the window I feel like they should be atleast C tier
Ark of Sotek is Tier 3, because it requires the Tier 3 Sacrificial Altar of Sotek.
I was thinking it’s a t2 and started a campaign and found out it’s t3 then it’s like garbage compare to solar engine. Probably be a b tire
"Probably more of a multiplayer thing" -Legend talking about feral cold ones.
That is where you are wrong, sir. Feral cold ones are garbage in every single circumstance, including MP, for the same reasons you've listed. Slow, shitty in melee, rampages, and for their cost you can get 2 chameleon skinks (which are the best lizardmen unit in MP.).
Feral ones are good as summons or maybe as an emergency "Oh shit" instant recruit unit for Rakarth,
It's funny how in domination mode now and days feral cold ones are considered top teir.
I could have sworn ark of sotek requires the sotek temple chain. So even though it's T2 you need another building so realistically it's T3. But I might be wrong
no no you're right, the game shows that you need the building for salamander hunting pack as well, which is T3. tho i believe you don't need this building to recruit the ark of sotek bastiladons if you play as sotek
A lot of Lizardmen units that used to require 2 buildings have been streamlined to be recruited with a single building. I believe ark of sotek is among them.
It's shown in the video that the ark of sotek requires another building
they require the shrine of sotek also to recruit
@furriesfuckanimals weebsanimetrash
Lolumad
"We'll go with melee monsters and the finish up with MISSILE monsters. Let's start with eh, the, ah, salamander hunting pack"
Why did I laugh so much at this.
Agree, I don’t know why he put it as a mele monster since it’s real power comes from its range attack.
@@florians9949 He didn't. He said he was going to do melee then missile and then do missile then melee.
@@ElCalvazo must have missed this part.
Whatever he meant it's actually funny because both hunting packs take ages to fire and end up getting used like War Lions or Dire Wolves, which they are not good at. It's hard to get them to fire before being closed down by enemies and they don't have skirmish mode.
Temple Guard are actually not too bad at holding the line. It's just a shame the rest of the army stands in front of them
To be fair their name pretty much tells you not to take them to the field ;)
Lmfao, good way to put it
Literally that, when you get to them, you have enough stuff to simply charge forward so poor guards are left behind eating artillery damage
Id love Tomb Kings next Legend
Good video idea the tier list
Would be interesting with the unit caps
Regular Carrions need their own "Carrion tier"
Feels like all constructs are doomstacks, all cavs are trash, all melee are B or C, catapult is A
@@AlasimT I mean depends is not really that straight forward
Bone giants arent that great and tomb guard are probably A or doomstack (under settra)
@@AlasimT all the tier 5 ones are, but I found the khemrian warsphinx to outclass the other two by a long shot. Its animation us constant barrage of arrows really ups its durability and damage output. It a necrosphinx is S then khemrian warsphinx is S+
On some Blessed units I like to use:
Blessed Saurus warriors with shields - improved stats and perfect vigour. You can get these going toe to toe with black orcs on VH/Leg campaigns and they murder weaker infantry (of course, get the techs and red line abilities for generals if you want to use infantry as they still perform relatively weakly.) Best used as support for monsters)
Blessed Carnosaur - speed 100 so it goes like a rocket, these are awesome.
Blessed Teradon with Fireleach Bolas - Have about twice the ammo of the standard variant. I threw two of these in an emergency ROR army once and never looked back, they can do unbelievable amounts of damage, in the region of 20k-25k against infantry armies, especially in a siege.
I like keeping a Blessed Carnosaur in reserve.
That thing can hunt characters and swing hard against the likes of Malekith, or Grimgor, or whoever is hassling you, and can turn an emergency Kroxigor Ancient crapstack from a speed bump, into an army gutter.
Blessed Chameleon Skinks are probably my least favorite. Chameleon Skinks are fine, I like one or two in an army, but, nothing says underwhelming like popping 8 chameleon Skinks into an army 'cuz they're what you have, and taking forever to deal no damage. Plus I always seem to get a ton of them.
I think the Blessed Carno comes with 50% Magic Resistance too
And Chameleon Skinks work great as an early game kite doomstack but mediocre support in a fair fight
IMO blessed Stegadons are by far the best blessed units because of perfect vigour. The only real problem with normal Stegadons is that they get tired after a few shots and when it's time to melee they are always exhausted.
I know it's not a great unit but whenever I put a few blessed horned ones into an army I have a great time with them. Reasonably fast, stats similar to melee cavalry, no rampage and pretty high entity health makes them work way better than their normal counterparts in my experience.
I always forget how fast the blessed Carnosaurs are until I see it take off and I'm like "goddam, chill big boy" haha
I bet all Lizard cavalry will be at the bottom.
P.S: well, at least Lizard cavalry are on their tier unlike Dark Elves Heavy Cavalry
What's fun is that they just released some of the cavalry changes to the beta build I think
@@ArlanKels I think it won't change anything for low-entity cavalry with rampage
@@Witch_King
Hopefully it will. It's supposed to mostly help with how the infantry with high counts get massive damage against cavalry I think?
@@ArlanKels Cavalry got worse or the changes are a wash btw. Good testing CA lul.
@@toggle3927
Well it's beta for a reason, hopefully they'll get the feedback and tweak it more.
The coatl's melee animation was improved in the latest patch, they aren't as derpy anymore. Imo they really deserve doomstack status as 1) they can be spammed for Tiktaktoe 2) a couple of them are great in any doomstack
But still, great video :)
I agree 100%
I am the maker of the coatl doomstack in legend's channel few mouth ago, and I approved this.
Its hard to say they are doomstackable for lizardmen in general as they are only cheaper than a stegastack with tiktakto. But definitely deserve it while under him.
In what way were they improved? I only noticed that it doesn't stuck in an equivalent of T-pose whenever there's an enemy next to it.
my impatience usually has me skipping to the end of these videos but homie legend spent all of his mobile data plan to stream in hopes his internet would come back, gotta give back some of the dedication and watch through all of it now
did his broadband shit the bed?
Solar bastiladons at tier 3 have changed my early game kroq campaigns in a big way. I put 1 rev crystal per 4 or 5 solars. They're not great in auto resolve but they really help maintain momentum on the campaign trail until you can get a skink Oracle. It's good to be able to have a semi doomstack before turn 75 and kroq makes them dirt cheap.
I doomstack those solar bastiladons due to the price compared to stegadon. Stegadons are obviously better but doomstacking solar bastiladons are cheaper and they hit hard. I don't know why it is only an A tier instead of doomstack tier.
A mate of mine got a blessed Stegadon in a recent coop campaign in one of his first turns. Like, just a god damn blessed Ballista Stegadon while the AI runs around with tier 1 units.
Needless to say he had his fun.
Lmao, I had that happen to me too in a coop campaign xD
Looking forward to the Skaven tier list. You're in love with that faction so I think your insights and enthusiasm should be at 110%.
prediction: Skavenslaves A tier, Stormvermin trash.
Correction: Solar Engine can DEFINITELY damage walls. Have done, do do, and will continue to do using them for that purpose.
Also: I seem to recall Blessed units not getting stat increases from their lord/faction, such as their red-line buff skills and Legendary Lord Skills.
Really? Are you sure, I was wondering for some time. But not enough to actually check. Thanks
@@TheKaD23 They certainly did in WH2 when this vid released, I remember playing a bastillidon stack army frequently.
I like how Legend hovered over Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek and says it doesn't require additional building, with big flashing arrow pointing at Shrine of Sotek!! Love you Legend! Thanks for video.
Just wanna add Lizardmen, VCoast and Vampire Counts buildings and recruitment is such a garbage, you need Tier 3 building to get Tier 2 etc.
Oh yeah, I hate needing two buildings for any unit. And they aren't even the best units! It just penalizes you for wanting to use those units!
Just here to say that these tier lists are actually incredibly helpful even though they're kind of a meme. Really appreciate the thought and effort you're putting into them. Hope you do every race 👍
They aren't helpful to me on normal battle difficulty. I'm sick of him shitting on every melee unit. Not everyone plays very hard battle difficulty.
@@Malus1531 that's true, these lists are only accurate for very hard battle difficulty. Though I have to say in my experience melee infantry is still pretty unremarkable/disappointing even on normal difficulty
@@SL-vj6df On normal Saurus will kill their way through almost every single unit in the game, come out the other side with minimal casualties, and then kill another unit for good measure. The only exception is the most elite infantry a faction gets, and even then some tier 4 and 5 will lose with the right techs and skills. They will assault up ladders into almost everything and win. Chaos warriors can do the same.
Saurus are A tier on Normal, and solidly B on hard. On Very Hard, where all a unit can do is tarpit, they're useless.
Its been quite a while since I played lizardmen but as of that time solar engines definitely worked on walls/towers so ballistadons are not your only arty unit.
Really surprised to see the Ancient Salamander so highly rated. It always seemed like it was super underwhelming for its tier
I'm surprised he put normal salamanders below ancient ones.
Because they seem to DEMOLISH whatever they fire at recently.
Seriously, their damage output feels extremely good with the only downside being how they need to stand in a perfect formation before they start firing.
Legend almost never recruits them. Ancient Salamanders were very strong when they first came out... They were nerfed shortly after, though. I guess legend just hasn't used them in so long that he forgot.
And considering it needs it own buildchain separate from the other strong dinos. They are alright I guess but why ever recruit them over Stegadons. Should be a solid B tier imo.
@@itarH not only early game tho.
Even before getting to bigger monsters I never had any problems against armoured infantry and cav just by getting a pair of them in the army: their AP damage and splash are actually good.
Even despite they completely suck in melee for some unknown reason.
@@itarH
Yeah, Salamanders shine and truly come into their own in combats that end up at the "shitshow mopup" stage. One or two volleys can absolutely devastate a unit if it hits from the right angle, they can completely clown on partial infantry units on the charge, they have good autoresolve weight, they are huge help in sieges, they shut down a lot of skirmish cav, really, Salamander packs are like the perfect remedy to a lot of the early game problems Lizardmen can struggle with, and I shake my head every time I see an early game, cobbled together army with no Salamanders.
Learned a lot about lizardmen. One of my favorite faction along with wood elves, not campaign wise but unit wise.
Ooh, I'd love to see a Skaven tier list. But this one is super helpful. I'm trying to play Lizardmen for the first time and I have no idea what I'm doing with their roster for recruiting
I dont think there's enough space for that many S tier units
Saurus Warrios and temple guard are very good, even on legendary. The reality is ranged is better on any difficulty. even on legendary melee works fine and the difficulty buffs get overshaddowed by your lord skills
@C U Next Tuesday yeah I only play legendary and use melee all the time. People forget he wastes ammo, corner camps and abuses the AI every single fight to make certain doomstacks viable. You can smash legendary difficulty with balanced armies by just playing your faction well
Love these videos!
If you press F11 while in a browser you will "zoom in" and only display the tiermaker webpage. You can after that futher zoom in by holding down the ctrl button and scrolling the mouse wheel. Just press F11 to leave the zoomed in view again.
You can, of course, scroll with the mouse wheel without using F11
I think Empire would be an interesting tier list, just because of how, honestly, balanced they are.
War wagon S+
And by that you mean "How bad all of their units are, except artillery"
Skaven should be next since he is covering game 2 races first.
And boring, just put everything at c tier and you're good to go
How are they balanced? They're cavalry is either expensive or total trash, the armies are just crapstacks basically and then all you rely on is on missile. How is it balanced?
Can't wait for the next one! I love tier lists because it's a clear, easy and fun way to see what units are best to utilise in campaigns and what not to use. Especially looking forward to Vampire Coast/Counts!
It's a shame he uses the cheating legendary difficulty which considers difficulty by making half of the entire not work. It be the opposite if the game decided to give all units an extra 20 percent missile resist.
I remember when I first started playing this game, the lizardmen were by far the faction the AI was giving me the most trouble with. Probably didn't help that my very first campaign was with Malus Darkblade either... I did much better against them with Fellheart (getting to know DE mechanics helped a lot too...)
Feral cold ones are super cool, but they're not supported by any lord traits or technology, not even stuff which affects "cold ones". They're a sad footnote in the roster for campaign at the moment :(
Solar Engine Bastiladons are also artillery. It's great to have some at tier 3 for tower destruction and aoe damage.
Some of the blessed units are should be 2 tiers above their none-blessed versions, some other ones should be a tier lower than their normal ones(If your first blessed mission gives you skink skirmishers, saurus spears or cold one spears you should restart the campaign because you just got scammed)
Yeah...
If Legend loves the blessed stegadons that much, he should consider a Nikai campaign, considering you can keep buying more and more with his favor of the old ones thing 😉
I'm pretty sure the bastilidon solar engine is also capable of damaging walls and towers.
It absolutely is capable of that. It makes a totally viable Tier 3 doomstack until you have the time, money and tier 4 buildings available to build your first Stegadon stack.
As someone who enjoys the game but doesn't have a ton of time to trial and error or research, these videos are great. A basic outline of what to be recruiting to enjoy a faction without getting rolled for using hot trash makes trying something new, or retooling your current armies, seem far less daunting
Something I like about these videos is as Legend is talking about units and making the tier list you hear the campaign map music in the background so I just imagine that's what you hear everytime he's around doing anything.
Haha when he steps in the bank, if he visits his family, when he enters the WWE ring walkway, it doesn't matter. The music is always the same.
Would love to see this revisited after the rampage changes and if it changes some of your opinions on these units.
Solar bastilodons can also destroy towers and walls, plus ancient salamanders I think. It's not just stegadons.
Small thing to point out regarding the vid; The Bastilidon Solar Engine can also damage walls and towers, being the 2nd siege engine monster available to the Lizardmen - they're just not necessarily as good at the role with their shorter range compared to the Stegadon.
Aside from that, I will say the rarity of the Blessed units has me appreciate the campaigns that allow you to get them easier: Oxyotl gets more regular missions that unlock them, and Nakai can outright buy (most of) them with enough favour... making a Doomstack+ of Blessed Stegadons almost worth suffering through his campaign on its own!
The dinosaurs are running amok! I love the look of the monsters for the Lizard Men, probably my favorite of the base Warhammer 2 factions
Can't wait for the Tomb Kings ranking!
I use life magic to restore full health to all surviving entities so that the revivification crystal brings back a dead entity every time it's effect triggers. Life magic heals WAY better but does not resurrect anything. Once you doomstack monsters its useless but early game it can save a lot of replenishment time as long as you pair the 2.
I never liked using the crystal or life slaan. They just take so long to heal so little that it seems much more worth it to run a fire slaan to kill hundreds of enemy units and more units that can heal with tech research for better replenishment
Please do a tierlist for EVERY RACE!
I'm loving these videos so much, even though I've been playing Wh2 on legendary for almost two years non-stop, and I already know how units perform :D
But anyway, please do. Love it. Will like and comment under every video.
I've really been looking forward to a lizard tier list because whenever I play as them, I'm never sure what to recruit besides stegadons, and carnosaurs. This was very helpful in expanding my options.
You should recruit some more stegadons, thats always works :D
@@Debilinside yeah but they take 3 frickin turns to recruit, aint nobody got time for that crap
These Tier lists are fantastic. Looking forward to the Skaven one!
This is why i never play on Legendary difficulty.
Legend, I love this series
"Since it doesn't require other building..."
Big yellow arrow showing that indeed it requires other Tier 3 building...
VH/VH or legendary. I use a ton of melee and do my best to work on fantastic flanks and surrounds. Something I just hate about not having a "realistic" army. It's hard sometimes but when the game gets easy.... Make it tougher! Good content LOTW
Love these, just finished watching/studying the high/dark elves tier videos and was sad because I didn't think you would come out with any more any time soon. Boy I was surprised to wake up and see this video up, 1 hour after it was uploaded lol. Thanks Legend 👍
finally the one that I waited for.
Me to
@@66687lucas I literally commented about lizardmen unit tier list on all the videos of legend himself.
This was such a good list! Wasn't expecting Solar Engines to go that high up, I believe I've never recruited more than one or two per campaign.
This was such an informative overview. You are a gem!
So, I didn't see anyone else mention this, but you said Stegadons are the only artillery unit in the lizardmen roster. Right after talking about the other artillery unit in the lizardmen roster, the Basildon with Solar Engine. I actually really like them for taking down walls, less so with towers, but still. They can absolutely do it, and they do a pretty good job at it.
Good stuff. Surprised at how many B and up there were. I figured the roster would be more lopsided. Kinda makes me want to start a new lizardmen campaign to try play around with some of them.
Thank you. Super unfamiliar with lizard men. This was helpful
Keep going!! I’m playing a Dwarf campaign as we speak, and I keep trying to discern what units are best.
I could see a Norsca unit roster going like this:
Doomstack: War Mammoth
A Tier: Feral Mammoth, War Mammoth (Warshrine)
Trash: Everything Else
Gotta love this vids, I hope we get as much factions as possible, your knowledge of this game is incredible
Small point, perhaps, but Bastiladon solar engines can damage towers and walls much like Stegodons, so Stegos aren't the only artillery unit. I often recruit Bastiladons over Stegos if I'm in a hurry or pressed for cash.
Terradon and more specifically their rock droppage being available at tier 2 building is invaluable imo
literally asked for this two - three days ago and the mans came through - thanks from NZ
These are amazing! Probably my favorite videos alongside the Legendary Lord comparisons. These videos help because they explain my innate thought of "why do these cold one units suck so much?".
I’ve been having surprising amount of success using red crested skinks vs skaven. They are really able to chase after fleeing skaven and cut them down (which skaven are fleeing 75% of the time)
Tragic seeing the badass temple guard in trash tier though :(
"I will do skaven tomorrow"
hwuahaha YESYES, skaven to make those stinkin reptiles die-die.
I know it’s not the best but I’ve never had more fun than playing Kroq with a carnasaur doomstack
I'd like to see this list redone for Warhammer 3.
Maybe Temple Guard got a buff I don't know about, but for me they're just immovable objects once they get into melee and are extremely good at pinning the enemy down for Horned Ones or Fireleech Bola Pteradons or spellcasters to blast down the enemy, and they'll honestly shred through pretty much any non-elite infantry and won't even do too badly against elite infantry.
I think I would put chameleon skinks in A tier for overall usefulness. They're decently cheap, they're tier 2, and they'll happily beat basically anything you have to fight before about turn 70 except pure cavalry because they're fast enough to kite infantry and have 40% missile resist.
You'll transition out of them as anyone but Oxyotl, but they handily solve the "what do I do before tier 4" problem the Lizardmen have.
I believe there is a bunch of comments like mine but Ark of Sotek is T3 unit because it requires a T3 Slamanders Building. Game even points this with a yellow pointer at 25:10
Also Feral Stegadons are not that bad, I'd put it at C - probably it's not worth to recruit them but as part of RoPG army they are pretty handy and strong enough.
P.S. Can't believe that you rated Ancient Salamanders that high. They are so squishy, they have twice less hitpoints than Stegadon, they are really B at most
Definitely would love to get this tier maker comparison for all races if you can make them all with time, Legend. It’s very useful 👍
Loving these tier lists btw Legend. Thanks for your hard work making these.
I definitely do agree with all of this. The chameleon skinks in my opinion are only good for oxyotl but for me personally I don't use the chameleon skinks much.
I absolutely love these. Keep them up, these videos are extremely helpful and informative
i am in love with those videos legend,keep them up!
pretty sure bastiladon ark of sotek ls effectively tier 3 due to requiring a tier 3 secondary building
Nakai can recruit blessed stegadons through his faction mechanics. It is funny having 20 in a campaign, even though it is only feasible in the late game.
CA adjusted the combat animation for the Coatls, might want to test that. I'd bet they fixed part of the derpiness
Ripperdactyls are probably the best melee unit during sieges. Their wall offense is simply crazy.
Edit… and blastiladons can also damage walls/towers. :)
Love your tier lists Legend. Keep up the great work!
playing a tomb king game at the moment and i would love to see that next.
Legend, you should do updated lists for Warhammer 3. The Kroxigors now have the Spawn-kun sinergy with the Skinks and in general melee infantry works differently in Warhammer 3, making your tier list probably outdated.
Yeah awesome ! Very important for us to see your opinion on those units, thanks and good job !
Thanks for the vid! Keep up the great work
Pretty amazing tier list, really useful overview for the unit values!
As someone who plays on very hard campaign but normal battle difficulty, it’s kind of jarring to see Saurus in trash. They’re definitely expensive, but they’re also absolute murder machines when the A.I. doesn’t get melee cheats.
@Legend , u need a tier 3 building to recruit the ark of sotek ones , so they are a tier 3 unit. Good video and continue your excellent work (:
I'm really enjoying the tier lists already helping my campaigns
Legend, this is a really good info video, I love the format and the idea behind it but a little bit of correction is needed:
Bastiladon (Ark of Sotek) is a tier 2 unit but it requires Sacrificial altar of Sotek which is a tier 3 building = it's a tier 3 unit effectively.
I don't know the reasoning behind this design philosophy, for me it's weird but it doesn't change the fact that it needs a T3 building.
I do use chameleon skink as a doomstack (especially with oxyotl) and it works dramatically well. And btw it’s kinda cheap for a doomstack. Try it you wont regret (especially against norsca u can legit afk during battle and come back at the end without any deads).
Great work, dude! Please keep making these!
I'm really enjoying these tier lists. Please keep doing these! They're informative and entertaining. Whom will you do next? Could you do Vampires next please?
Please keep them coming! Love these videos!
Melee infantry at A tier, mmmmm iron breaker you mean…
@@itarH Yes they are. Just because they have 1-2 grenades doesn't make them ranged units, especially since they can't attack flying units. Only Ekrund Miners have enough ammo to somewhat count as a ranged unit
I guess Legend means iron breakers and because he mentioned special abilities i guess night gobbo fanatics are also a candidate for a tier 🤔
@@cLaPtR4bZ he said Iron breakers, as did you just now. Irondrakes are a ranged unit, Iron Breakers are not
@@houndofculann1793 oh sorry. Just read my comment again and i see its very confusing. With "he" I'm referring to Legend. So "i guess Legend means Iron Breakers when he says there will be Melee Infantry in Tier A."
@@cLaPtR4bZ that is a useful correction, makes much more sense now =D thanks
Still would like to see you include heroes and their mounted variants in these tier rankings. Since a hero's abilities can turn an otherwise meh unit into something special.
I agree. I hardly ever recruit Feral Carnosuars because I just have Saurus Scar veterans in the army performing that role and they do not rampage. You are going to have Skink Priests in army as well so 1 will in the end be on Engine of the Gods. Skink Oracle is one of the best heroes in the game so is a no brainer.
Those units are made almost obsolete because of the Lizards Heroes.
@@LG-jn5fx But one thing to note is that hero mounts do not get buffs from lords' skill tree.
Love this kind of video mate 😁!!! Great Job as usual
Another great tier list, keep up the good work!
Anybody else think that the lizard men roster is just one step away from being on par with races like high elves and dark elves? Let me provide some food for thought:
1. What if croxigors were as fast and hard hitting as minotaurs? Sacred croxigors moved faster, hit harder, and had high ward save.
2. Chameleon skinks have armor piercing. Chameleon stalkers were not a hybrid unit, but instead an archer unit with more range, damage, speed, and magic attack.
3. Tier 1 and 2 Calvary would be cold ones and horned ones. Beyond that you could get increasingly powerful packs of raptors. They have dinosaurs. They should have some of the best cavalry in the game.
4. The feral troglodon has at least the same range as the ancient salamander. One is an anti infantry ranged monster. The other should be able to snipe large units from the same distance and probably do far more damage since it is single target.
5. Troglodon, ancient salamander, and carnosaur units also have mounted variants with complimentary equipment like stegadons.
Right now it feels like the lizard men were an afterthought to the other three original races of warhammer 2.
Yeah. When it first launched the Lizardmen were strong as hell. As time has gone on they haven’t gotten the love and attention beyond some additions to their roster (lord, hero, and units). Update after update it’s felt they’ve kinda been left behind. It’s also rough to see their best LL is kroq gar who’s their first LL (alongside Mazdamundi who’s trash outside of fights). Most other factions are affected by power creep, but all of them kinda fail to support the faction that the lizardmen need to be on par with their rivals from the elves.
Really enjoying these, would love to see one of the warhammer 1 races covered.
These tier lists can help with planning future challenge runs! Instead of norsca no mammoths it could just be no A or above tier units.
Legend out here bout to be put in the book for doing lizards and knife ears ahead of the dawi
Eventually could you do a unique unit or ROR tier list for each faction for the lolz?
#1 Avalanche Mortars
Nothing else matters
Da Big Un iz da best!
He uses RoR as emergency units, I don't think he even knows their abilities/stats difference