Lewis and Tolkien Debate Myths and Lies

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  • Опубліковано 23 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 919

  • @AllendraXRai
    @AllendraXRai 11 років тому +1047

    Tolkien's persistence made former atheist C. S. Lewis one of the most influential writers of Christian Apologetics. These two men are brilliant.

    • @MaskedMan66
      @MaskedMan66 4 роки тому +11

      There were others as well, including one Charles Williams.

    • @CsnvLsRnst
      @CsnvLsRnst 4 роки тому +52

      I honestly believe that Lewis was never a true atheist, only a self-proclaimed one because he didn't know what else to call it or in order to add more legitimacy to the claim of his conversion, as he himself wrote that it wasn't that he didn't believe God existed, but rather he was angry with God for not existing.
      Also, and I don't mean any disrespect, I find Lewis' fiction very stale and second-rate, and his work of apologetics merely adequate at best. He basically took centuries' old arguments by much better philosophers and theologians like Atanasius, Augustine, Anselm and Thomas Aquinas, and rehashed them in a more readable manner. His own "original" propositions, like his famous trilemma on the nature of Christ, was more based on sophistry and fallacious reasoning than on solid arguments. And even Tolkien, his best friend and himself a proud and devout catholic, disliked Lewis' mediocre approach to writing fiction and apologetics.

    • @MaskedMan66
      @MaskedMan66 4 роки тому +22

      @@CsnvLsRnst I guess there's a troll in every thread.

    • @CsnvLsRnst
      @CsnvLsRnst 4 роки тому +31

      @@MaskedMan66 I think I had never been called a "troll" for respectfully offering my reasons to why I have a different opinion on a particular topic, so I'm very flattered :)

    • @MaskedMan66
      @MaskedMan66 4 роки тому +10

      @@CsnvLsRnst I didn't see much (or any) respect in what you wrote.

  • @WillScarlet16
    @WillScarlet16 9 років тому +1727

    "Some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again." - C.S. Lewis.

    • @78endriago
      @78endriago 7 років тому +6

      2:33 doesn't the fact that the prisoner is able to think of the easter bunny, suggest that the easter bunny does exist?
      . . .
      no, no it doesn't

    • @Hypogean7
      @Hypogean7 7 років тому +75

      Didn't you watch the video? The fact that it is a myth doesn't detract from the primordial joy that the Easter Bunny brings to children. It even was right at the beginning! And every prison has an outside. Even if it was placed in the middle of the Earth it would still have an outside. The second that you stop believing that there is more than just those walls, is when it becomes true, and all hope is lost.

    • @78endriago
      @78endriago 7 років тому +3

      the trouble is the people that believe the books, and then kill people based on what the book says.

    • @Hypogean7
      @Hypogean7 7 років тому +45

      dan b You can say that about anything.

    • @HooDatDonDar
      @HooDatDonDar 6 років тому

      No. But something like?

  • @TenderTrap86
    @TenderTrap86 11 років тому +235

    For people who love Narnia and Middle Earth, try GK Chesterton's The Ballad of The White Horse. It's an epic poem about the Saxon King Alfred's heroic struggle against the Viking Danes.
    It's about faith, hope and courage in the face of insurmountable odds. Very powerful and uplifting.

  • @ThisAdamGuy
    @ThisAdamGuy 12 років тому +234

    As both a Christian and a novelist, words can not describe how amazing this video is to me. Thank you for posting it!

  • @expiringphilosophy7605
    @expiringphilosophy7605 7 років тому +465

    I was so confused until I realized that the guy who looked like Lewis was actually Tolkien

  • @LordofPride
    @LordofPride 11 років тому +170

    I love how most of this is taken directly from Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories", no speculation, no investigation from other writings, but the words of the men themselves.

  • @lionbear7706
    @lionbear7706 5 років тому +164

    "if the prison is all there is , how is it that we are able to picture things that exist beyond the prison?" exactly !

    • @Ansatz66
      @Ansatz66 5 років тому +1

      It is a very peculiar question, apparently asked by a person who has never pictured something which does not exist. It is difficult to believe that Tolkien of all people would think that imagination is so limited, but perhaps he somehow managed to convince himself that all his stories truly happened somewhere, despite him inventing them himself. Could he have thought that Bilbo and Frodo and Gandalf all truly existed, and it was that sincere belief which motivated him to write so beautifully about them? He may have thought: if they don't really exist somewhere, how is it that I am able to picture them?

    • @brianbaker1700
      @brianbaker1700 4 роки тому +2

      It did seem a strange line. Are we to assume the prisoner was born in the prison? (I realize it’s a metaphor, but the metaphor didn’t work for me.)

  • @KenPotter
    @KenPotter 4 роки тому +113

    C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity", "Hope" Chapter explains this concept... that our Hopes give us clues to wonderful things to come. “If I discover within myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.”
    - C.S. Lewis

  • @MyComputerSucks2
    @MyComputerSucks2 9 років тому +387

    If only G.K. Chesterton could have lived unnaturally long and given us his commentary of the Lord of the Rings.... that essay would be the things that dreams are made of...

    • @rlburton
      @rlburton 8 років тому +96

      “[Fairy tales] make rivers run with wine only to make us remember, for one wild moment, that they run with water.” -Chesterton
      Tolkien gives us a world filled with Hobbits, wizards elves, and orcs; reminding us we live in a world of men, saints, sinners, angels, and demons

    • @vonVince
      @vonVince 6 років тому +29

      It would have been interesting, but the phrasing "lived unnaturally long" is just wrong: the first two books were released in 1954, with the third book being released in 1955 - he would have been in his 80s had he lived to see The Lord of the Rings book trilogy being released - and there's nothing "unnatural" about living to 80s.

    • @Sopranohooper
      @Sopranohooper 6 років тому +6

      Maybe we can get Peterson to do it. Iirc Pageau has already made a start on it.

    • @mojosbigsticks
      @mojosbigsticks 6 років тому +6

      Or to hear him debate with Richard Dawkins, especially around the comment at 7:14.

    • @Finarphin
      @Finarphin 5 років тому +22

      Lewis wrote a review of The Lord of the Rings. Probably the most glowing review anybody ever wrote.

  • @MetallicaMan76
    @MetallicaMan76 6 років тому +502

    It's funny that my two favorite authors were good friends in life

    • @livecatgrenades
      @livecatgrenades 5 років тому +30

      Fun fact: H.P Lovecraft and Robert E Howard were also good friends.

    • @MrDuck797
      @MrDuck797 4 роки тому +31

      MetallicaMan76 not really, they were good friends, of course, but often debated on literature. And they seldom agreed. In fact, they were really only good friends while they were both professors, and they grew apart over the years. Not only literature, but also religion. On the night that Tolkien took a walk with Lewis trying to convert him to Christianity, he wanted him to be a Roman Catholic, not a Protestant. However, both of them were devout Christians and used many of their beliefs to base them inside some of their books, such as Tolkien’s Silmarillion, and Lewis’s Space Trilogy.

    • @joecool2759
      @joecool2759 4 роки тому +26

      Glorfindel the Golden-haired Prince They we’re great friends and God used them both. They might’ve disagreed on literature but most writers and theologians quarrel on such things . But their love for God and fiction and the amazing stories they brought are results of God’s sovereignty and love, to remind us that he’s not just here in the corporeal universe but especially in the spiritual universe and even the fictional universes we create in stories.

    • @janaprocella8268
      @janaprocella8268 4 роки тому +5

      YES AND THEY WERE BOTH ATHEISTS.....WHO GOT "SAVED "...
      AFTER COLLEGE HAD TURNED THEM INTO ATHEISTS....!!!
      COLLEGE STUDENTS TO DO THAT TURN FOLKS INTO HEDONISTS....
      AND PRODUCTS OF HUMANISM...
      THE GOD SPEAKS TO YOUR INNER SPIRIT TO ALL OF OUR SPIRITS..
      ACTUALLY GOD NEVER STOPS TALKING TO US..
      NO MATTER WHAT'S HAPPENING IF WE HAVE EVER HEARD THE NAME GOD.... HE WILL ALWAYS SPEAK TO US...
      THE OXFORD DONS, OR THE BEGGAR ON THE STREET......
      WE WILL HEAR FROM GOING ALL THE TIME NO MATTER WHAT THE CONDITION IS THAT WE ARE IN..
      THESE TWO REPRESENT HARDCORE ATHEISTS...
      IT TURNED TO GOD....
      AND THE REST WAS HISTORY.

  • @TheSundayDungle
    @TheSundayDungle 11 років тому +91

    C.S. Lewis is actually the younger man. I can see how it is confusing as he goes by the name "Jack" but Lewis was actually commonly called Jack by his close friends and family - it was the name of his childhood dog (Jacksie).

  • @joshuabrock9504
    @joshuabrock9504 9 років тому +469

    Have none of you who are claiming Tolkien never believed this way actually bothered reading his letters? If you don't like the fact that he did have a Christian faith then fine, but you can't deny the fact that he did.

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 4 роки тому +24

      i dont . in fact i greatly love and respect him for it. i have a great love and appreciation for catholism.)

    • @kevinmorrice
      @kevinmorrice 4 роки тому +7

      @@cuchulain55 roman catholic, tolkien was specifically roman catholic which i used to be

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 4 роки тому +7

      @@kevinmorrice i know.:) and i love catholism and am a great defender of it. in the highest:) when i think of the beautiful christian faith tradion i i mostly just regard and think of oriental eastern orthdox and catholic in that order.:) no offense to protestents they are all geeat to of course in thier own way, but im just not in to that form of christanity.

    • @kevinmorrice
      @kevinmorrice 4 роки тому +2

      @@cuchulain55 i left the church because of personal issues i had, ive been a buddhist for 15 years now as a result, i once even gave a 20 minute talk on buddhism at my old church

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 4 роки тому +4

      @@kevinmorrice thats awesome!:) i my self am a perrenial philosopher. the religio sophia perrenis which adheres to the transcendent unity of all faiths.:)

  • @hyperpowerfulform5132
    @hyperpowerfulform5132 8 років тому +248

    I enjoy all the research that was put into this:
    C. S. Lewis was called "Jack" by Tolkien.
    The actor who played Tolkien (if anyone knows who that is, please let me know, thank you) managed to capture Tolkien's speech patterns very well.
    They used a word Tolkien coined: eucatastrophe (such a pretty word, to me at least)
    And I'm sure there are many more, but that's all I noticed.

    • @FreelancerLA
      @FreelancerLA 7 років тому +24

      The actor who played Tolkien is Kevin O'Brien. There is another video that showcases his acting titled "Socrates meets Jesus", in which he plays the titular philosopher transported to a modern university's world religions class. It's quite entertaining.

    • @hyperpowerfulform5132
      @hyperpowerfulform5132 7 років тому +3

      Ah, I see.
      Thank you good sir.

    • @TheWeepingDalek
      @TheWeepingDalek 5 років тому +1

      surely it was lewis who called tolkien jack

    • @beth12svist
      @beth12svist 5 років тому +11

      @@TheWeepingDalek Jack really was Lewis's nickname, from his childhood and all his life. You can look it up easily - it's a well-known fact.

    • @lgmmrm
      @lgmmrm 5 років тому +7

      Lewis was called jack by anyone with whom he was on a first name basis because he hated the name Clive Staples

  • @raendzel2630
    @raendzel2630 4 роки тому +45

    Tolkien is arguing what I’ve been trying to argue for years now but so much better than I ever could.

  • @TheSkepticalHumanist
    @TheSkepticalHumanist 11 років тому +170

    I love the story told by Tolkien's grandson about his grandfather's consternation at the post-Vatican II changes to the liturgy. In particular, he objected to the liturgy being done in English and would, as a protest, give his responses rather loudly in Latin. Heaven only knows what Tolkien would make of some the masses that are celebrated in Catholic parishes today, especially in England and the United States. It's probably for the best that he didn't live to see such things.

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 10 років тому +14

      I wonder if he would of converted to eastern orthodoxy. a friend of mydads did because of the vactican 2 changes

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 10 років тому

      ***** wow! really I didn't know that before. so the british at that time would of been even more against Christian orthodoxy.

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 10 років тому +2

      ***** saying responses in latine isn't heresy.

    • @matthewlaurence3121
      @matthewlaurence3121 10 років тому +3

      ***** Not likely: Catholicism does have a controversial legacy in Britain, but by Tolkien's time converts to the Church of Rome were not unusual. While such things did occasionally take place until about 100 years ago, there was never any hostilely towards the Orthodox due to the absence of sheared history. The perception was that they were foreign and a bit odd, but not something to be feared. Catholicism on the other hand had threatened the very existence of England a number of times, and inflicted much carnage - hence catholic converts were traditionally seen as being traitors - while the British were heavily invested more than others to build up the greeks for independence as an Orthodox nation, and merging royalty into the devoutly Orthodox Romanov family.

    • @kellynorman9270
      @kellynorman9270 10 років тому +7

      Rather Notsay The whole English Civil War was brought about because King Charles I favoured Roman Catholicism. Catholics in Britain since Henry VIII's creation of the Church Of England were seen as traitors to the state and were arrested and killed just by practising their religion, because there were strict laws against it. There was the huge exclusion crisis in Charles II's reign, because his brother who would later become James II was a well known catholic and the people refused to have a Catholic on the throne. The Royal family, even today still can't convert to Catholicism or marry a Catholic as one of the titles the monarch accepts is Defender of the Faith as the Head of the Church of England. So yeah there is bit of an anti-Catholic history going on there :).

  • @thorshammer7883
    @thorshammer7883 7 років тому +383

    Lewis's and Tolkien's work won't be forgotten.
    Their better than GOT

    • @curiousgeorge7080
      @curiousgeorge7080 6 років тому +30

      One year and 35 likes later...They're* and Than*.

    • @thorshammer7883
      @thorshammer7883 6 років тому +15

      @@curiousgeorge7080
      *Fixed*
      I got it no worries.

    • @freshbrewedasmr3378
      @freshbrewedasmr3378 5 років тому +6

      I'm so glad someone agrees with me

    • @rosalindgrxc0e
      @rosalindgrxc0e 5 років тому +15

      GOT is pretty good come on but it doesn't beat the works of tolkein and cs lewis. even tolkein took his work from myths and legends of english folk history, welsh language and norse mythology

    • @dragonlord.kingslayer8697
      @dragonlord.kingslayer8697 5 років тому +5

      it's called a song of ice and fire not game of thrones

  • @dragongirl461
    @dragongirl461 12 років тому +21

    I remember reading a Tolkien Tresury and at one point in the short biography about J.R.R Tolkien was they were debating once in a pub and one man finally asked C.S Lewis what they were talking about since it had been more then four hours and he simply replied "Dragons" then went right back to the converstion.

  • @KenPotter
    @KenPotter 4 роки тому +79

    I cannot imagine the mental depravity necessary to give this a thumbs down

  • @justinpalmer3948
    @justinpalmer3948 5 років тому +60

    Reading Tolkien talking about faith and religion will make you shed a tear.

  • @CsnvLsRnst
    @CsnvLsRnst 12 років тому +87

    I liked this clip, and the performances, but J.R.R and C.S were basically young at the same time, so it's kinda strange that Lewis is portrayed here as a young man and Tolkien as an old man

    • @deborrastorm2754
      @deborrastorm2754 6 років тому +6

      Luis Acosta Casanova also Jack Lewis Looked more like they have Tolkien looking

    • @TheKnoxvicious
      @TheKnoxvicious 5 років тому +8

      Actually, the old man IS Tolkien. He used to call C.S Lewis Jack - it's complicated...

    • @MrDuck797
      @MrDuck797 4 роки тому +8

      Exactly, they were only six years apart

    • @rougebaba3887
      @rougebaba3887 4 роки тому +25

      The particular production team that put these videos together has these same two actors who play multiple historical characters. They work on a shoestring budget. They do all these different roles more as a ministry than a living. I have seen these same men play roles as diverse as Charles Darrow, Socrates, G.K. Chesterton and Friedrich Nietzsche. So although they do their best to make them look more like the individual they are playing, the real point is to make them speak in the terminology and thought process of the historical figure being studied.

    • @Varth_Dader.Twitch
      @Varth_Dader.Twitch 4 роки тому +2

      I have a friend whose hairline is far more gone than the actor in this clip. He's 27.

  • @andrewlevin6331
    @andrewlevin6331 11 років тому +100

    I feel enlightened watching this.

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 10 років тому +3

      well it is a very enlightening talk.:)

    • @Irishandtired
      @Irishandtired 10 років тому +1

      Enlightened is probably the wrong word unless you're being sarcastic. :)

    • @andrewlevin6331
      @andrewlevin6331 10 років тому +1

      what word would you use?

    • @blackmore4
      @blackmore4 8 років тому +1

      +Andrew Levin
      Enlightened is fine if you've realized that on the subject of God, Lewis was little more than Ken Ham with vocabulary.

    • @3Jereth
      @3Jereth 8 років тому

      +blackmore4 whoever this Ken guy is you really seam to like him as you keep bringing him up. wasnt that the dude who argued with mr Bill Nye?

  • @loganford6483
    @loganford6483 4 роки тому +34

    The actor for Tolkien is doing a surprisingly good impression of him

  • @TenderTrap86
    @TenderTrap86 11 років тому +128

    Wasn't it Tolkien who just said that all myths really point to the true myth of Christ? Accidental allegory is inescapable. Have you ever read or seen Legends of The Fall? Tristan goes away and writes back home that he is "dead". His loved ones think he will never come back. but, one day he does, in a dramatic way. He reconciles with his father and takes a bride (the Church). All "original stories", at least have a hint at the Real Original. We are all wired for God. We can't get away from him.

  • @NothingMoreButMusic
    @NothingMoreButMusic 7 років тому +71

    3:39 "What on earth is this truth you are *tolkien* about?" :D

  • @jordilop15
    @jordilop15 11 років тому +213

    I do not believe in relegion, but I'm with Tolkien on this one. There is far more to our lives and the universe than we know. It would be stupid to think we got it all figured out already.

    • @wrestlingguy8722
      @wrestlingguy8722 7 років тому +7

      jordilop15 I can appreciate the that.

    • @TubeFuzzyCheese
      @TubeFuzzyCheese 5 років тому +5

      May I suggest the lectures by Ryan Reeves on Lewis and Tolkine

    • @stevejordan7275
      @stevejordan7275 5 років тому +16

      But to make stuff up and then profess it to be true is nothing like the same thing. That's propaganda at best, malice at worst.
      True, we don't know everything, but we're learning quickly, and not because our myths proved to be true.
      Rather because...science!

    • @daltongarrett3393
      @daltongarrett3393 5 років тому +10

      Materialism never posits that everything is already accounted for and understood, just that nothing is beyond human comprehension. Anything can be quantified, we need only advance far enough to find the means.

    • @kuraikenshi2349
      @kuraikenshi2349 5 років тому +26

      @@daltongarrett3393 Very logical. However what you have stated is pretty much metaphysical justification to materialism's potential. Materialism denies metaphysical concepts. At least what I am led to believe.

  • @millabasset1710
    @millabasset1710 8 років тому +169

    Rationality has become a human religion. What we as humans consider rational can potentially be the laughing stock of 100 years from now.

    • @dodec8449
      @dodec8449 8 років тому +1

      Possibly but today you and I would not know which conclusions would turn out to be true and which would be false. So it would be pointless to wonder about that, except leaving all options open.

    • @guytakamatsu7326
      @guytakamatsu7326 7 років тому +46

      Human wisdom is time bound, while God's Wisdom is timeless.

    • @JP-rf8rr
      @JP-rf8rr 7 років тому +6

      Dodec84
      But the issue is that they hold those things to be absolute instead of saying "thats the best guess so far".

    • @adamhovey407
      @adamhovey407 6 років тому +2

      SetsunaAngel99 a good example of that, would be how the Soviet Union taught the Sciences. Keep in mind, that the Soviet Union was an officially atheist state.

    • @whynottalklikeapirat
      @whynottalklikeapirat 5 років тому +2

      Why don't you find out what it even means before you knock it. You just used it in a small way to put down those words. And the device you wrote on is the product of it. Go live in the woods with no clothes and every time you have a coherent thought bump yourself on the head with a rock to break the habit and see where that all takes you. I think you'll find that you won't be doing quite as well as the birds in the field ...

  • @stephenmerritt5750
    @stephenmerritt5750 6 років тому +23

    If the four walls was all there were, then why would we imagine and dream of anything else? That's the image of God in us. Brilliant.

  • @Emp6ft10in
    @Emp6ft10in 5 років тому +129

    I kept waiting for one of them to call the other a racist or a Nazi but didn't happen. They just keep exchanging ideas.

  • @Cornelius-yk6oy
    @Cornelius-yk6oy 6 років тому +21

    This is truly a great video; such a treat for the brain! Two great man with great ideas. I've always been a Tolkien fan, but it wasn't before I delved deeper into my faith that I realised how inspiring he is. Thank you for posting this!

  • @BestMentalism
    @BestMentalism 8 років тому +61

    Started to write my comment to share my ideas, then it became too long for a comment so I continued on a notepad, and before realising it I was writing a full several-pages essay on the question and all its implications. Damn this is so interesting !

    • @hyperpowerfulform5132
      @hyperpowerfulform5132 7 років тому +16

      Good debates are like that.
      Welcome to the rabbit-hole of Tolkien. One of the smarts blokes I know.

    • @fullcircle2340
      @fullcircle2340 7 років тому

      same

    • @tomheckmann9004
      @tomheckmann9004 7 років тому

      Best Mentalism Christopher Hitchens and CS Lewis

    • @TheKnoxvicious
      @TheKnoxvicious 5 років тому +1

      So where's your essay?

  • @scorbiot
    @scorbiot 5 років тому +30

    I think that Pratchett captured the answer the best. "You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"

  • @leonorebaulch6251
    @leonorebaulch6251 6 років тому +8

    Plato used a similar allegory of "The Cave" in "The Republic" Thank you for putting this up for us to watch.....I knew one of these conversations helped Lewis find his faith....he was content to be an Anglican for his life on earth till his death....I know this as I have met family members...

  • @tioedong
    @tioedong 12 років тому +17

    at the time, Lewis was barely a Deist, so Tolkien, like Paul in Athens, was arguing at that level. And Tolkien, being a Catholic Christian, doesn't limit his intellectual life to a magic book with all the answers, but sees God in the Bible, in the church, in nature, and in everything good, beautiful and true...

  • @greenwoodthebard
    @greenwoodthebard 11 років тому +18

    CS Lewis was known by his nickname, Jack, among most of his family and friends for most of his adult life. His character in the biopic Shadowlands is even credited as "Jack Lewis".

  • @deepheart100
    @deepheart100 11 років тому +389

    Ah, the good old days when people actually had conversations about something worth talking about. Now days everyone just wants to talk about sports, how to make more money, and gossip.

    • @winstonbay1653
      @winstonbay1653 10 років тому +28

      Cancel your cable subscription! The worlds' I.Q.'s declined collectively as T.V.'s proliferated. There are so few with original thoughts because so many share the same and still fewer read to know any better. So-called "mass media" and consumerism are only delaying us from realizing the new Renaissance!
      To lose so many souls, so many great minds to a holocaust of aimless distractions at the expense of the future is surely more horrific than any holocaust of the flesh! We must always pray for God's Saving Grace!

    • @deepheart100
      @deepheart100 10 років тому +20

      I don't even watch TV, if i do it's the news or i'm popping a movie in. Network television absolutely disgust me, and the commercials are very simplified and childish. In my free time I read Tolkien's works or a non fiction article of some type. Being a writer I also do that. The desire to have a conversation like the one in this video is overwhelming and unfortunately hardly anyone in my generation has the interest or the intellect to do so. Not saying i'm better than any of them, but I wish the world was more literate than what it currently is.

    • @Irishandtired
      @Irishandtired 10 років тому +14

      Winston Bay
      I cancelled my SKY subscription when I saw my little girls watching drivel on Cartoon Network. It was utter brain rot. We are all made in the image of God and we have free will. We all have the ability to think. The game is distraction and thinking can be quite burdensome to be honest, especially living around zombies.
      I try to point them to read certain things and I have found that they do it without pressure in their own time. I don't force my will but, they can be shepherded.

    • @younggrasshopper3531
      @younggrasshopper3531 7 років тому +4

      deepheart100 Don't be so hasty to go and slander everybody. Theres always people around dying for opportunities to share their passions and discuss the possible Truth etc

    • @bobjames1992
      @bobjames1992 7 років тому +1

      Or just talk about the 'good old days'

  • @RockBrentwood
    @RockBrentwood 5 років тому +8

    The dialogue was also key in Tolkien's remaking Akallabeth into an Earth-remake; putting the Straight Road into/through Outer Space; and equating the quest for the Blessed Realm removed from the circles of the world to the quest to push out to the Final Frontier.

  • @ericharrison7906
    @ericharrison7906 11 років тому +13

    Proverbs1-For gaining wisdom and instruction, for understanding words of insight;for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,doing what is right and just and fair;for giving prudence to those who are simple, knowledge and discretion to the young let the wise listen and add to their learning,and let the discerning get guidance for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise.The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

  • @emvialx2236
    @emvialx2236 9 років тому +283

    I once thought UA-cam was merely a website abused by children containing nothing but meaningless videos and music. That is, until i stumbled upon this hidden treasure

    • @stefan1924
      @stefan1924 7 років тому +17

      UA-cam is far from being what it was ten years ago. There is so much high quality content on all sorts of topics these days.

    • @kevinfairweather3661
      @kevinfairweather3661 6 років тому +1

      Yep !

    • @Sopranohooper
      @Sopranohooper 6 років тому +7

      Jordan Peterson.

    • @LittlePixieBot
      @LittlePixieBot 5 років тому +1

      Not all Catholics priests abuse children. Shame on those who did, however.

    • @markturneymusic8294
      @markturneymusic8294 5 років тому +2

      Look up C.S. Lewis Doodle

  • @adamhovey407
    @adamhovey407 6 років тому +12

    I have not read so much Tolkien (though I am, continue to be, and will always be Catholic), but, I've been reading A LOT of CS Lewis lately. He was a very good writer.

  • @TheDarksage502
    @TheDarksage502 5 років тому +32

    I really love this. As I read the lord of the rings, I’m almost overwhelmed with how wonderful it is to read stories about courage and resisting temptation and truly good stories about Noble actions and heroism. Things I didn’t enjoy when I was a vapid atheist, I now enjoy with such childlike wonder. I wish so many people could be persuaded to see God and be fueled by these great stories of acting pleasing according to his will.

  • @forgetaboutit1069
    @forgetaboutit1069 4 роки тому +40

    “But,” said Lewis, “myths are lies, even though lies breathed through silver.”
    “No”, said Tolkien, “they are not.
    ...just as speech is invention about objects and ideas, so myth is invention about truth.
    “We have come from God (continued Tolkien), and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Indeed only by myth-making, only by becoming a 'sub-creator' and inventing stories, can Man aspire to the state of perfection that he knew before the Fall. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil.”
    “You mean”, asked Lewis, “that the story of Christ is simply a true myth, a myth that works on us in the same way as the others, but a myth that really happened? In that case”, he said, “I begin to understand.”
    -J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography

    • @KevinOBrien101660
      @KevinOBrien101660  4 роки тому +3

      "... just as speech is invention about objects and ideas, so myth is invention about truth." ... So then why do you speak and why should I listen to you?

    • @forgetaboutit1069
      @forgetaboutit1069 4 роки тому +6

      @@KevinOBrien101660 think Tolkien lays it out fairly well, don’t you think? Not sure if you’re asking me personally or rhetorically. I watched the video and it reminded me the part in the book where this taken.

  • @Anderson7ization
    @Anderson7ization 11 років тому +31

    To take LOTR as an allegory of Christianity would be to disagree with him too:
    "I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author" - JRRT.

    • @maikeruasmr8591
      @maikeruasmr8591 5 років тому +5

      However you cannot ignore the nuances.

  • @greggy553
    @greggy553 5 років тому +12

    "Surprised By Joy" ~ CS Lewis

  • @JL-hy5wd
    @JL-hy5wd 5 років тому +14

    "MOST EMPHATICALLY NOT!"-J.R.R. Tolkien

  • @Vic35102
    @Vic35102 4 роки тому +11

    Is quite strange to see writers that have such different beliefs from the opposite end of the Pendulum yet they remain good friends

  • @jdlstoryteller
    @jdlstoryteller 4 роки тому +5

    I've watched this video countless times and used it in apologetics work toward Christians of other denominational views. (I'm Reformed Presbyterian.) I did a commentary/reaction video on it on my channel. Thanks so much for keeping it up, it's one of my favorites.

  • @Myrdden71
    @Myrdden71 11 років тому +8

    Another confusing factor here is that Lewis has come down to us as a pre-eminent Christian apologist known for his works like The Screwtape Letters and Mere Christianity, while Tolkien is known only (to most modern readers) by The Rings novels. Also, these actors/characters look very different in age, while Tolkien was just six years older than Lewis (1892; 1898 births respectively). This is a wonderful showing of mentoring, and witnessing to someone on their level and where they are at in life.

  • @lukasmakarios4998
    @lukasmakarios4998 4 роки тому +9

    Imagination, Creativity, Morality...
    Meanings are spiritual issues.
    We are indeed living in the "Matrix," and the Divine Storyteller has created all of this in order to share His love beyond the limits of this "History." That's why our reality appears finite, so that He can train us to desire infinity, and His meaningful Story gives us a context for living happily ever after.

  • @DW-bc4xq
    @DW-bc4xq 5 років тому +6

    Beautiful conversation on the creation of spirit, how the thought of mankind in its free thinking form can become One with the universe.

  • @WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1
    @WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 6 років тому +12

    Tolkein was born in 1892, Lewis in 1898 but here they could be father and son.

  • @DrummerJay74
    @DrummerJay74 11 років тому +83

    Love is much more than a feeling. it is much more than the chemical reactions in our bodies. it is a choice to put others needs ahead of our own among other things. to say it is just a feeling is an ignorant conclusion to a much greater reality.

    • @Welther47
      @Welther47 6 років тому

      What at load of romanticist rubbish haha

    • @angelachristine13
      @angelachristine13 6 років тому

      It does continue on in the actions taken outside of oneself. It is a force of will that proves itself it when challenged.

    • @whynottalklikeapirat
      @whynottalklikeapirat 5 років тому +1

      That's fine. How do you know that? By what method did you determine that to be true ...

    • @lefooo
      @lefooo 4 роки тому +1

      Love is a decision.

    • @DrummerJay74
      @DrummerJay74 4 роки тому

      Without being free to choose it you can’t have it

  • @kn1091
    @kn1091 4 роки тому +13

    We create because we where created
    God is amazing

  • @willjezewski5595
    @willjezewski5595 4 роки тому +6

    This is a great discussion and very well acted for such modest means. I was raised a Catholic, am now a respectful agnostic, and have always been a dreamer haha. I think the only dislike of this video could be by those disrespectful... not that all atheists are disrespectful by nature.. but I posit that they are disrespectful of reason.. for to be an atheist is a logical fallacy in that you are using the same faith in something you do not know to assert the otherside of the existence of a supreme being. I should clarify, this in and of itself is not disrespectful, but to militantly assert that you are correct in your assumption/belief and all others heretics is no better than the fanatical theist starting wars over doctrine that these same people so often cast aspersions upon. This one mans opinion, anyways :)

  • @johnwinstonlennonful
    @johnwinstonlennonful 12 років тому +10

    This is so interesting. I'm Mexican, and even though I understand most of it, I'd appreciate a lot if someone could write down in a comment the entire dialogue, so I could translate it to Spanish and show it to a couple of friends. That would be great. Thanks.

  • @jan-peterschuring88
    @jan-peterschuring88 6 років тому +19

    Wow....what a sublime and insightful video. It covers such a treasure trove of transcendent truth. Watching this together with Jordon Peterson’s biblical series can really be a transformative gateway. I also just read Chesterton’s Orthodoxy which has a similar affect in altering and questioning the pervasive worldview of materialism, rationality, and relativism.

    • @Nomansland77
      @Nomansland77 6 років тому +2

      Same man, when i started reading myself, just some C.S Lewis His Lectures, Articles, and books. That blew away, a lot of what modern academia teaches today. And watching this, even though not the real convo. Really was intellectually Stimulating that's for sure. Wish we had more men like them in Modern Universities/Colleges.

    • @Player-125
      @Player-125 6 років тому +2

      Same here, guys: Peterson for the last year or so, and a couple runs through Chesterton's 'Orthodoxy,' thanks to my friend Pastor John. Chesterton is one of the greatest. Glad to see fellow travelers on the Journey. Wish we could get together for a meal sometime.

  • @Melpomene789
    @Melpomene789 11 років тому +9

    well, it doesn't mean it has a secret and/or a precise meaning. Tolkien was against allegory. And he wasn't fond of religious education through books (like the fantasy precursors or Lewis). But it's a work of a pious catholic, and of course, the worldview, the velues, the Hope, the Sacrifice... are obviously christian themes he profondly believed in.

  • @glishev
    @glishev 6 років тому +21

    Good! Catholic, agnostic or just a dreamer, one can easily appreciate this :)

    • @or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS
      @or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS 5 років тому +3

      or jewish and muslim or A Hindu or buddhist or sento or animistic or paganistic and even an atheist

    • @abelphilosophy4835
      @abelphilosophy4835 5 років тому

      And a Christian, just like me . Anyone who is not a fool

    • @willjezewski5595
      @willjezewski5595 4 роки тому +2

      Absolutely! I was raised a Catholic, am now a respectful agnostic, and have always been a dreamer haha. I think the only dislike of this video could be by those disrespectful... not that all atheists are disrespectful by nature.. but I posit that they are disrespectful of reason.. for to be an atheist is a logical fallacy in that you are using the same faith in something you do not know to assert the otherside of the existence of a supreme being. I should clarify, this in and of itself is not disrespectful, but to militantly assert that you are correct in your assumption/belief and all others heretics is no better than the fanatical theist starting wars over doctrine that these same people so often cast aspersions upon. This one mans opinion, anyways :)

  • @EP-yd7vz
    @EP-yd7vz 5 років тому +3

    Many of the points Tolkien makes can be found in his 1939 Andrew Lang lecture “On Faërie Stories”, easily found online and of course in his letters.

  • @tigertrophy1805
    @tigertrophy1805 5 років тому +3

    Such a great act to watch
    Starting immediately with set up for arguement between two legendary literary figues.👍🧡

  • @kellynorman9270
    @kellynorman9270 10 років тому +12

    Going past the suburban houses you could say that the Baggins with Bilbo and Frodo are like the British people in that they are excited to go adventures (the creation of the British Empire), but like to come home at the same time.

    • @Max-px5ym
      @Max-px5ym 9 років тому +1

      +Kelly Norman it's quite the opposit, Hobbits aren't supposed to be excited about adventures, they're supposed not to care about the outer world, outside their garden :)

    • @kellynorman9270
      @kellynorman9270 9 років тому +2

      Olorin Dreamer I didn't mean all Hobbits as you can see I put Frodo and Bilbo specifically as they are excited at the prospect of adventure, but, especially Bilbo, are quite happy when they go back to the comforts of home.

    • @Max-px5ym
      @Max-px5ym 9 років тому

      Kelly Norman well then we could say that of every empire that existed

    • @jesushealsmohamdidnt
      @jesushealsmohamdidnt 8 років тому

      +Kelly Norman I agree about the suburbs! (:D Love their fantasy books!

    • @PhilHoy97
      @PhilHoy97 5 років тому +2

      Hobbits didn’t go around slaughtering, enslaving, stealing land from and colonising indigenous people. The British Empire was an evil sickness and the opposite of Christianity.

  • @WilliamBrownGuitar
    @WilliamBrownGuitar 10 років тому +23

    Tolkein's use of "myth" in a technical poetic sense was a mistake. It caused and causes people to focus on the wrong sense of the word, instead of on the point he was making. Of course Lewis understood. But most moderns, who literally cannot think, get hung up on this term and derive the wrong message. Sad, but true. Simply using different language would have resulted in his reaching a lot more people with this important truth. Surprising, since he was a profoundly brilliant linguist.

    • @cuchulain55
      @cuchulain55 10 років тому +8

      But the English word Myth is such a beautiful word though. why cant we
      still use it to refer to something deeper.

    • @h0gg0
      @h0gg0 10 років тому +5

      He is referring to 1 (not 2) William, dear boy:
      1.
      a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
      "ancient Celtic myths"
      synonyms: folk tale, story, folk story, legend, tale, fable, saga, allegory, parable, tradition, lore, folklore; More
      2.
      a widely held but false belief or idea.
      "the belief that evening primrose oil helps to cure eczema is a myth, according to dermatologists"

    • @seananthony7494
      @seananthony7494 9 років тому +6

      Right, but I believe he was only trying to reach Jack(CS Lewis), not everyone else. It's a personal conversation.

    • @WilliamBrownGuitar
      @WilliamBrownGuitar 9 років тому

      h0gg0
      h0gg0,
      I know. But few even know that definition, but rather automatically think of definition 2.

    • @WilliamBrownGuitar
      @WilliamBrownGuitar 9 років тому +2

      Sean Anthony
      That's a good point. However, these conversations between Lewis and Tolkien have become quite famous. And when folks hear Tolkien use the word "myth" , they often just do not grasp what he meant, but infer almost the opposite. That's what I have seen.

  • @sadoupierre4302
    @sadoupierre4302 7 років тому +21

    Wow these are two smart men

  • @thebeanymac
    @thebeanymac 4 роки тому +5

    "We make things by the law in which we are made."

  • @Greasy__Bear
    @Greasy__Bear 4 роки тому +20

    CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien the two greatest influences on my life to date.
    CS Lewis more but if it wasnt for Tolkien Lewis probably wouldve never written theological books.

  • @jetc4332
    @jetc4332 5 років тому +5

    anyone has the specific sources that inspired this scene? I know it takes from Tolkien's "on fairy tales" but what else?

    • @pwmiles56
      @pwmiles56 5 років тому +3

      It's a famous conversation, it happened in the early hours of September 20, 1931 in the grounds of Magdalen College Oxford. There was another man, Hugo Dyson, present. If I know anything of the form here (FWIIW my parents met at Oxford in this period, they were Catholics, and I grew up with the legend of Tolkien) it followed an evening's hard drinking ---

    • @jetc4332
      @jetc4332 5 років тому +1

      @@pwmiles56 Thank you so much!

    • @JediSawyer
      @JediSawyer 5 років тому

      This video seems confused about who was John Tolkien and who was Clive Lewis. Tolkien was six years older than Lewis; however the man who appears older refers to what appears to be the younger man as Jack. As for an account of this incident I found this online sullivanfiles.net/lewis/mythastruth.pdf ….I'm currently reading the fascinating volume, C.S. Lewis and the Catholic Church, by Joseph Pearce (with whom I had the pleasure of chatting over dinner one time). I was familiar with the general outlines of Lewis's conversion to Christianity (he being my favorite writer), but the way Pearce described it was very interesting and thought-provoking, in terms of my own (and Lewis's) interest in the relationship of Romanticism and Mythology to Christianity. I would like to cite some of it: -------------------------------------------------------------------
      This meeting, which was to have such a revolutionary impact on Lewis's life, took place on 19 September 1931 after Lewis had invited Tolkien and Dyson to dine at his rooms in Magdalen College. After dinner the three men went for a walk beside the river and discussed the nature and purpose of myth. Lewis explained that he felt the power of myths, but that they were ultimately untrue. As he expressed it to Tolkien, myths were 'lies, even though lies breathed through silver.'
      'No,' Tolkien replied emphatically. 'They are not.'

    • @MalumbaBono
      @MalumbaBono 4 роки тому

      A decisive discussion between Tolkien, Dyson and Lewis did take place, but this is not a transcript of it. No transcript exists AFAIK, and the contents of this dialogue are pulled from other sources, as you supposed. See other replies.
      The nearest you will get to a summary of the discussion is what Lewis writes in the autobiographical account of his path from childhood to conversion (never intended to be a full autobiography): "Surprised by joy".
      In that book, Lewis gives his own technical definition of "joy". q.v.
      It has nothing to do with Joy Davidman, whom he much later married, although it is an amusing coincidence.
      Lewis's definition of joy:
      ua-cam.com/video/x21aTd36QMo/v-deo.html

  • @ryanratchford2530
    @ryanratchford2530 7 років тому +1

    Just a thing around 1:40 , there are 4 dimensions (time is a very real dimension) & we have more than just 5 senses (detecting heat, pressure, sense of gravity etc. It’s just the traditional ‘five senses’ are the most easily identified)
    Not a big deal for the video just wanted to share something interesting.

  • @ladyM1854
    @ladyM1854 4 роки тому +3

    please please this video is one of my favorite and I want to translate the subtitles in french so that I can share it with family and friends, but I can't, the contribution mode isn't activated !!!if you see this comment please activate the mode !

    • @KevinOBrien101660
      @KevinOBrien101660  4 роки тому +1

      I enabled contribution mode. I also enabled French subtitles, though I don't know what that does. Thank you, Marie!

  • @wernervannuffel2608
    @wernervannuffel2608 4 роки тому +1

    What is the title of this feature film? Thanks in advanced for an answer.

    • @zaggy3110
      @zaggy3110 4 роки тому

      It is an excerpt from a documentary about Tolkien

  • @Nomansland77
    @Nomansland77 6 років тому +11

    That was pretty amazing actually. Seeing a transfiguration like that. Wish we had more people in academia like Tolkien. And the late C.S Lewis.

  • @Anderson7ization
    @Anderson7ization 11 років тому +2

    If you understand my previous use of the quote, you'd know I'm simply saying that the story of the LOTR is not allegory. It is of course inspired by his faith, but it is in no way copying it on a 1 - 1 representative basis. So if it contains faithful components, they are not allegorical ones - they are applicable ones :)

  • @CathLibEd
    @CathLibEd 8 років тому +6

    Very moving!

  • @MagusMarquillin
    @MagusMarquillin 11 років тому +1

    Does anyone know where to find the entire program of this? And what is it, a documentary with reenactments?

  • @mitchelanhalt5261
    @mitchelanhalt5261 4 роки тому +6

    Ah Tolkien and Lewis. Two greats in fantasy. My inspirations.

  • @RottenDoctorGonzo
    @RottenDoctorGonzo 5 років тому +2

    4:09 "I made damn sure that Pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate."
    - Lucifer via The Rolling Stones.

    • @pwmiles56
      @pwmiles56 5 років тому

      What is truth said jesting Pilate, and would not stay for an answer --- the most haunting line ever written --- John 18,38 interpreted by Francis Bacon

    • @pwmiles56
      @pwmiles56 5 років тому

      Actually Pilate had a point. I've heard in my wanderings about how Christ "spoke truth to power". What truth?

  • @manthasagittarius1
    @manthasagittarius1 11 років тому +3

    Whatever you might say about that, and there are a number of significant flaws in the film adaptation, among all the cinematic beauty and great performances -- the films have sent a lot of people back to the books who might never have read them. And that's hard to complain about.

  • @TheLastAbacus
    @TheLastAbacus 7 років тому +33

    Jordan Peterson echoes Tolkien's lessons here. I'm glad we have people like him still alive.

    • @WetaGuy
      @WetaGuy 7 років тому +6

      TheLastAbacus I was looking through the comments here to see if anyone noticed the similarities between Jordan Peterson and this video. Glad to see I'm not alone.

    • @nt4382
      @nt4382 6 років тому +12

      Kyle Olsen JP can go and suck a fuck, he's an impetuous imp compared to Tolkien.

    • @TheDixieBassMan
      @TheDixieBassMan 5 років тому

      N T and Bishop Williamson is not as Good as Pius XII it doesn’t make him or his work worthless.

    • @lunarmodule9915
      @lunarmodule9915 5 років тому +2

      Jordan Peterson is an atheist commie shill.

  • @jovanov4
    @jovanov4 12 років тому +13

    Imagine a debate... Richard dawkins vs J.R.R. Tolkien... just imagine....:)

  • @spookerredmenace3950
    @spookerredmenace3950 4 роки тому +1

    amazing video! i love your comedy videos as well.. but this is an important video as well

  • @manthasagittarius1
    @manthasagittarius1 11 років тому +3

    Have you listened to recordings of him reading his own work?

  • @brucefetter
    @brucefetter 12 років тому

    For those interested in further readings on this topic from a Christian pov, I would suggest a few: Naturalism, by Goetz, The Restitution of Man: CS Lewis and the case against scientism by Aeschliman, A Meaningful World by Wiker, The Mind of the Universe by Artigas, Answering the New Atheism by Scott Hahn, Does God Exist? by Moody, God and the New Athiesm by Haught, The Reason for God by Keller and of course, Mere Christianity and Miracles by CS Lewis. Great reading! Truth matters!

  • @wiseye61
    @wiseye61 11 років тому +4

    golden ratio. Also, the more symmetrical the object, the more beautiful it will be perceived by us.

  • @Chad01234
    @Chad01234 12 років тому +1

    Thank you! I will definitely look into it.

  • @careergoddess
    @careergoddess 12 років тому +5

    To learn from the master of myth from the beginning of time: Joseph Campbell.

  • @78endriago
    @78endriago 7 років тому +2

    2:33 doesn't the fact that the prisoner is able to think of the easter bunny, suggest that the easter bunny does exist?
    . . .
    no, no it doesn't
    if the supernatural was actually real, shouldn't there be a way for people to demonstrate that the supernatural is real?
    science is only able to test things in reality.

  • @JL-hy5wd
    @JL-hy5wd 5 років тому +3

    It's so funny how the way Tolkien talks, you can just hear his voice in the pages of the Hobbit.

  • @tickedoffnow
    @tickedoffnow 4 роки тому +2

    What movie is this from?

  • @nathanyarymowich
    @nathanyarymowich 6 років тому +3

    It’s just the ontological argument and an appeal to emotion. Perhaps, I am too much of a materialist to be swayed.

  • @frankdarnalljr10
    @frankdarnalljr10 7 років тому +1

    This is a great discovery, wish I read and watch this 20 years ago

  • @HaNs-mg5cn
    @HaNs-mg5cn 6 років тому +7

    Delving deeper into Christian Theology as a student I found parallels between Tolkien's theology and the theology of pre-monolatric Israel. Before Joshia, the twelve tribes worshipped "El Elyom" (The Most High) akin Eru Ilúvatar, while worshipping YHWH akin Valar like Manwé or Aulé. Sometimes they even associated Ashera (Varda or Yavannah) as YHWH's wife. Only through the YHWH-alone movement El Elyom and YHWH merged and became a middle thing between the absolutely transcendent and fairly uninvolved Eru (and the ONE time He intervened... Oh boy did He shake Arda up, literally!) and the immanent and ever-working Valar. The Valar, however stayed as the top tier of the divine order after YHWH. Many times the Bible tells us of "Sons of GOD" or of a "Divine Council". Jewish theology really saw a special council made up by gods (Capital G reserved for YHWH only), who are His advisors but also entirely answerable to Him. Suddenly "You shall have no other gods before me" makes sense: "You shall not prefer any other gods to me." That is: "YHWH alone deserves worship. And while the others may recieve reverence, the faithful shall not forget to worship above all else the One True God."

  • @kentuckyrex
    @kentuckyrex 8 років тому +1

    Love these authors and their works. Contextual question, if I may. Was "Jack" a nickname for C S Lewis, or just one Tolkien used alone?

    • @nutritionnut3975
      @nutritionnut3975 8 років тому +2

      Jack was a nickname for Lewis from his childhood

    • @kentuckyrex
      @kentuckyrex 8 років тому

      Thanks

    • @rlburton
      @rlburton 8 років тому +1

      His real name was Clive. He didn't like it.
      One day, he walked into the living room, pointed to himself, and said "this is Jack."

    • @jamesking5075
      @jamesking5075 8 років тому

      It was the name of his childhood dog and Russell Terrier named Jack. after the dog died when he was still a child. he told his family to start calling him Jack instead. Clive was his real name

    • @jamesking5075
      @jamesking5075 8 років тому +2

      look it up it was his dogs name. plus he didn't like his real name

  • @Jowett1000
    @Jowett1000 11 років тому +4

    Well once you take into consideration, that Hobbits are closely related to Men, descendants, long since removed; it is said, that Gollum is "one of the river-folk" it can be assumed that, that he is of a race that has remained somewhere in between men and hobbits.

  • @enifu
    @enifu 9 років тому

    Nobody has yet to provide me with a rigorous definition of "create", that is to say what operations are involved in creating and which operations are not. What is creation that we are to be mindful of it? Sure there are works that can be traced back to a specific person or groups of people, but are they not drawing upon things that go further back still?There are also situations where two people come across the same or similar thing independently, Alexander Graham Bell, and Elisha Grey, for example.

  • @guilhermedarosa7426
    @guilhermedarosa7426 7 років тому +7

    Tolkien here behaves so much like Bilbo in the first LotR's movie. I wonder if there is any character he based himself on, even unintentionally.

    • @hyperpowerfulform5132
      @hyperpowerfulform5132 7 років тому +7

      He has said at least once that he is very much like a hobbit, except in size, and based The Shire (fairly loosely) on the world he grew up (not born) in. I wouldn't be suprised if Bilbo is a "Author Avatar" of sorts.

    • @bmwilsonify
      @bmwilsonify 7 років тому +1

      Him and Frodo share the same personality type according to 16personalities.com

    • @wrestlingguy8722
      @wrestlingguy8722 7 років тому

      Guilherme da Rosa he always said he was simply a tall Hobbit

  • @manthasagittarius1
    @manthasagittarius1 11 років тому

    I'm glad someone has noted this. I am left wondering, after viewing this very repetitive, not very well written dialogue, who the author of this script is and how that person has the temerity to attribute this conversation to these two men. I suspect they would both be horrified to have this level of writing attributed to them; and anyone who agrees or disagrees with either author based on this presentation alone is simply not thinking.
    It's no more than a puppet show. How does EWTN presume?

  • @carlcurtis
    @carlcurtis 10 років тому +7

    The presentation is more or less as described by Humphrey Carpenter--but the actors are all wrong physically. Lewis was heavy and balding; Tolkien was, in Lewis' words, "whispy" and with a full head of hair. The producer and director might have research this easily enough.

  • @Paivization
    @Paivization 6 років тому +1

    What is the name of the entire movie?

  • @thesodathief
    @thesodathief 9 років тому +47

    Nothing cannot create something

    • @kylereasterson5934
      @kylereasterson5934 8 років тому +7

      +TheSodaThief This statement means nothing.

    • @thesodathief
      @thesodathief 8 років тому +2

      Kyler Easterson think about it

    • @kylereasterson5934
      @kylereasterson5934 8 років тому +6

      TheSodaThief I did. It's a true statement but it doesn't prove or disprove God.

    • @thesodathief
      @thesodathief 8 років тому +10

      Kyler Easterson True but it disproves many atheistic theories

    • @kylereasterson5934
      @kylereasterson5934 8 років тому +8

      TheSodaThief How so? In which atheistic theories does it say that absolute void or absolutely nothing instantly became something.
      What if it's just that nothing is impossible. What if there has and always will be something.

  • @TheDckfilms
    @TheDckfilms 12 років тому +1

    The "wizards" Such as Gandalf, were Maiar spirits which descended to Arda to help the Valarto shape the World. They were supposed to be numerous, yet not many were named. Their chiefs were Eönwë, banner-bearer and herald of Manwë, and Ilmarë, the handmaid of Varda.
    Each of the Maiar was associated with one or more particular Vala, and were of similar stock, though less powerful.

  • @Imagination_arcade
    @Imagination_arcade 12 років тому +4

    Tolkien taught Literature at Oxford... The man was incredibly highly educated.

  • @idontgetno
    @idontgetno 12 років тому +1

    About that; I grew up reading 19th century authors , or those who still had a foot in that era: Edgar Rice Burroughs, James Fennimore Cooper, Jules Verne, A Conan Doyle, & JRR Tolkien. Even Marvel Comics when Stan Lee was still at the helm. I became addicted early to epic stilted prose. In fact, I tended to talk that way when I was young.
    Pompous? Yeah; if the shoe fits, gotta wear it; stuffy, formal, ceremonial, archaic; kinda like LOTR (my fave book)