The idea of the Greeks building a Museum of the Parthenon with a special display area for the Marbles - which is conspicuously empty - is simply magnificent.
For decades the British museum's excuse for not giving back the marbles was that Greece doesn't have any "proper" place for them, so the Greeks answered by building an entire museum dedicated to acropolis and Parthenon 😉
The only reason it was even built was for political reasons. The British museum was the worlds first museum and built for the purpose and showing the history of the world.
@@jaredgarbo3679 not really a solid excuse for withholding national treasures though is it If the countries of origin agree to let them stay there for the reasons you state that's one thing. But to hold them out of nothing but greed is a different matter entirely
@@jaredgarbo3679 That doesn't mean you get people's shit when they want it back. That's like me stealing cars and saying it's fair because I'm showing them off at car shows.
The British museum saying Greece can't have it's statues back because they don't have a good place to store it is like a car thief saying you can't have your car back because you don't have a garage to store it in.
Especially when, in this case, the garage in question is more of a bleeding edge, modern building with storage conditions far exceeding the cozy embrace of the perpetrator.
No, no it’s not the same thing at all. Greece redefined the meaning of bankruptcy, and nobody with a brain is convinced they’ve permanently left that nonsense behind them. No, they don’t get those items back. This is the way the earth has operated since one tribe took another tribes sacred stick and displayed it. You don’t change millennia of doing things one way unless it’s something like slavery, which this is not. Who cares where the artifacts are displayed, the most important thing is they are displayed safely, and correctly somewhere out of the reach of a population that at any moment could go back to tearing the country apart because all their socialist programs have bankrupted the country again. If they don’t like it, show the world you can act like adults for more than a decade, and then buy your artifacts back. Too bad, so sad.
@@KelticTim nah bro bankrupcy is not going to magically destroy the statues saying that it doesn't matter where the statues are is like saying that as long as the Queen of Britain is good she could even be a non english speaking chinese
@@ap6480 what are you talking about? Ancient statues don’t just get set up and then there’s no cost that goes along with them. Right from the start, getting them displayed properly, including a place to actually show them, security, and upkeep all costs millions per annum. How exactly do they pay for it with no money? Why not leave them where they can be properly displayed and cared for until the country is fiscally sound and they can take over from there?
@@KelticTim they litteraly have prepared a museum to display it lol, you didn't even pay attention to the video, obviously the British museum doesn't give it back to greece because they want to keep receiving money, everything that you're saying is utter nonsense, greece isn't poor enough to not be capable of having a museum, even because they already have prepared a place to display the statues in one of their museums
In these techno days, the British Museum should laser-scan the Elgin Marbles, make full-size 3D-printed copies, return the originals to Greece, and make a new exhibit featuring the copies addressing the history of the originals - letting school kids see them at eye level to emphasize the awesome efforts required to create the originals.
@@jeffersonkee6440 It doesn't have to be literal marble. People aren't going to be actually touching them to feel if they are real. A lot of things in museums are already replicas anyways. Often a mold is made and they use a mixture of marble powder and resin to cast a realistic looking replica. 3D molds can be printed.
@@lebby1688 Though it would be cool to have them commissioned out of marble, and recording the making of them using as close as we can get to the methods that were originally used to make them. Can go from just a display of "these were made by blank and we stole them" to a proper lesson on history, art, ethics, and manufacturing!
My wife and I did a trip to Italy, with a cruise to multiple places in Greece and Turkey. Lots of excursions to local museums and amazing places. The common them was "here's the little stuff, the good stuff is in the British Museum".
@@tonyatthebeachI’m sure the Turks have some of their own stuff as well, right? I’m sure Greece also has artifacts it’s taken as well, right? I think ALL museums are a trip. They should be returned and the country of origin should make a replica for whichever museum wants to display what it would look like. Cause it’s not like visitors could touch the damn super rare stuff, it’s just for aesthetic and to look at. I think it’s more of a power move. Especially any countries ‘National Museum’. Or they could put stuff on lend if they want the way China does with Pandas.
@@NoddNup Nope, tour all of Greece and you won't find any Turkish artefacts, tour Turkey and you'll find the vast majority are ancient Greek, Roman and Byzantine artefacts (basically medieval Greek). The Turks were nomads from central Asia who only took over the Byzantine Empire in the mid 15th centrury and had little notable culture so their exclusively Turkish museums only have pieces from the late middle ages/early renaissance onwards, which is mostly a bunch of rugs. Meanwhile, the Greeks had dominated the region for about 8,000 years from the neolithic age and produced the amazing art, architecture, literature, mathematics etc that is familiar worldwide and still taught in schools to this day. Google Turkey and the first thing that pops up is the Hagia Sophia, a Byzantine church with the largest dome in the world for 1,000 years. I'll grant the Turks one thing...they invented the donner kebab in the 70's.
I read a news story a few years back about a “bronze bowl” that was in a nice house in Switzerland, being used as a tennis ball holder. Turns out it was a bronze Censor Bowl (used to burn incense) at the Chinese Imperial Court. Ended up being purchased by an “Unnamed Chinese Buyer” for a big GOB of money.
My mother once had to assess a disabled elderly man in a posh old house. He had a Greek painted figure wine vessel that was still used for that purpose.
The gold cup from Rillaton Barrow in Cornwall went missing for many years, and was found, quite by chance, in King George V's appartments in Buckingham Palace, where (probably apocraphally) he had been using it to hold collar studs.
@@arcturionblade1077 well why dont we go right back through history to ancient Egypt and return everything that everyone thinks is stolen from everyone else? Conquers spoil...just part of history
Me: **steals my neighbor's car** Neighbor: Ummm... I'd like my car back. Me: No thanks. I'd like to keep your car. Neighbor: It is literally mine, please give it back. Me: How do I know you can take care of your car? Neighbor: I took care of it just fine before you stole it! Me: But I have it now, so that proves you can't take care of it. Besides I really like having a car. Neighbor: Please just give it back! Me: How about I keep your car, but I let you use it every now and then? That's seems fair to me! This is literally what the British Museum sounds like.
"The british proceeded to burn down the palace, a task which took 3500 men more than 3 day due to the sheer size of the estate". That sentence makes me think that just as "Vandalize" is a word in english, "Britishize" might be a word in chinese.. or mandarin if thats what's it's called.
@@mhorlor well… James Acaster was kinda first. His story telling of the joke matched an experience I had going with my Chinese friend, who the very old patronizing man kept trying to explain to her why something was important to her culture and she kept trying to explain she’d studied it in elementary school. It was an ancient Chinese scroll about teaching manners to children and to respect elders, and I just remember how dismissive he was toward her acting like she didn’t understand how important it was to the Chinese people. And that man was BRITISH.
I saw so many cultural artifacts from India in the British Museum. There is even a set of statues that trace their origin back to our family temple. The temple was made to give the gold statues up as Tax to continue operating in the Madras Presidency
@@derekbentley196 what does it feel like to be in a country that is moving towards ignominy? Your country doesn't really have a long term future You'll be a people living on an irrelevant island by the time we reach 2050.
My mother took me to that museum. Once. And refused to ever go to a museum with me again, because I stopped at Every Exhibit. Even the stamp collection.
I am the same, though I have the habit also of taking many many photos of exhibits too, lol. On one particular visit to the National Museum of China in Beijing, I was in there for 6 hours and walked out with over 4000 photos … it’s my addiction lol
I used to live in the UK and went to the museum a lot. The first time I spent 3 hours in just the first gallery. The one where they were displaying the Rosetta stone. My sister came back after tearing through the whole place and was incredulous that I hadn't even made it out of that one room
I visited when you could actually touch the Rosetta stone. (The real one, not the new replica) I had to. So much history in a slab of stone. Napoleon had seen it, and wondered about it, and the brilliant Champollion managed to decipher it after a long time of trying. My mate who I was with, thought I'd lost the plot.
@@thesherbet - I've spent three hours just looking at the Greek red and black ware - the illustrations are gorgeous, funny, and extremely graphic in some cases, and all utterly fascinating. I love the writings of Homer, and Ovid's earthy 'Metamorphoses', so this was bliss - also, not many kids or casual visitors seemed interested in ancient pottery, so nice and quiet.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say you could have an entire channel about items in the British Museum's collection that were stolen from their home country.
@@jbrisby , I never knew murder, rape and theft to be ‘civilised’ ..or are you calling the people who were raped, murdered and robbed the uncivilised ? And if these people aren’t civicilised, how do they have history so important, that the British stole it and kept it away from its people ? Africans were trading with eachother at a time Europeans were dragging their hunt back to their caves. You don’t know the meaning of the word civilised.
Han Solo: "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side." Us: Okay you have had enough buddy. Hey! Somebody call Harrison Ford a cab.
If it's not really popular with tourists, like the Parthenon Marbles are. Returning items is the bare minimum of common decency, by the way, so it's not something they should get a pat on the back for doing. Giving back what you stole is just the right thing to do.
The Pergamon Museum in Berlin is a more interesting example of the "it's safer here" attitude. They saved their collection from World War 2, but during the Soviet occupation some of the artifacts made their way to Russia and never came back.
I mean I can totally relate to agreeing on them taking stuff when you know the stories about torture, gulag and shootings. Back in WW2 they were lucky to keep their stuff after the downfall of the 3rd Reich. I am sure they had the same choice in both time periods: "sure, I will hand you your requested items if I can keep the rest"
Spent a day in this museum and I was totally blown away. Morality questions aside, it is absolutely astounding and awesome to be able to see all that stuff in one place.
I have no desire to go to England. So I’ll never see it. I likely would have seen some of the things that originated closer to me if they’d left them where they were. Maybe I will when they give them back.
The only problem is every time an artifact is returned to these countries it goes missing, either turning up in a private collection years later or melted down to never be seen again.
That's not true. Scotland returned some of it's artifacts to Nigeria including the Benin bronze previously owned by the University of Aberdeen. I saw them just before the pandemic on a trip to the country in a Delta state museum. That's one time that contradicts your assumptions/generalization.
After going through the Vatican, I think they are in the same boat as the British Museum, would be great to see Simon do a story on the Vatican treasures
The Vatican has so much it makes the British museum look a bit sad and pathetic really. They're definitely in the same boat though but the British museum seems to get a lot more attention on this issue
@@mattymc6802 Everyone loves hating on Britain, but nobody says shit about the Vatican or Mecca which both are full of gold and riches and both stolen.
Was there ever a list made of all the art work the Russia nicked from Germany, who nicked it from most of Europe in WW2 ?, I was always interested where all those peoples properties ended up & what they were ?, or is that just me again.
It's simple, like in my game Humankind I don't pass the "workers charter" tech so I can sacrifice workers to build factory instantly. Don't worry comrades I'm sure they where counter revolutionarys
This was good. But with the British Museum structure itself being a large historical building, could we get a video covering the history of the actual museum itself?
I can imagine british museum curators discussing if they should return stolen arts, until the one innocent soul amongst them asks: "Guys... are we the baddies?" 😂 cf Mitchell and Webb sketch
Really surprised the Rosetta Stone wasn’t mentioned in this. Or the top half of the ramesses II colossal granite sculpture. And all of the stolen mummies. Especially with the grand Egyptian museum opening this year.
I was surprised too. I'll be in London soon and I'm thinking of visiting the British Museum but i'm in two minds about it. Should be give money to a museum that has looted items by way of bloodshed, rape and torture?
"So all of what you see here..." "Is this even legal?" "Well, no one objected to us taking it. Granted, we didn't ask anyone. We also weren't listening." "But if they ask for it, will you give it back?" "What part of 'not listening' did you not understand?"
@@ikayfuma Benin is part of modern Nigeria. Nigeria became a Republic in 1960. The "Kings" and "Princes" of Nigeria are tribal leaders, whose ancestors enslaved their countrymen to sell to Europeans in the Atlantic slave trade era. The last legitimate monarch of Nigeria is HM Queen Elizabeth II, because of the British Empire acquisition of Benin in the Victorian era. There are over one million slaves in Nigeria today and it is the most corrupt country in the world. There are of course people who think that the artwork of hundreds of years ago, commissioned by the slave trading royalty of the day should be "returned". Do you think that such people want to treasure the artifacts and celebrate the ancient culture - or greedily sell off the artifacts for profit? I would love to think that there are good people who will protect the artifacts in Nigeria and everyone can enjoy learning about the artwork and the extinct culture from which they came. A number of artifacts were in fact sold to collectors in Africa; the British museum is particular about where the items are going.
I'm all for the gathering of relics for protection from possible destruction. However, what I worry about more is having a collection from an array of different cultures in a single place. Single point of failure if a destructive event occurs and the subsequent loss from so many sources would be far more devastating than the bottom line of any institution.
Yeah but Benin and Greece are way more likely to have destabilizing events than the UK is . That's just the truth even though it might not be right they probably wouldn't exist if britian didn't take them
IKR. Ever since Brexit UK governments have become more and more unhinged. Long term the country could turn into a very unsafe place to keep so many artifacts.
I'm for returning the marbles to Greece .....But. With that being said I believe credit should be given to Lord Elgen for rescuing them from certain destruction from the elements and the general lack of any care for the sites at the time. There's no doubt in my mind that had he not done what he did we wouldn't have them to argue ownership over today.
I highly recommend to change the picture of the National Gallery in London in the beginning of the video to a picture of the British Museum. I think these details are important in case of high quality videos such as this one. Keep up the great work!
I spent a month in London and went to the British museum nearly daily. It was right near my lodgings so it became part of my morning routine. I was 19 and there for some classes.
The british museum can create copies/replicas for display and put a disclaimer "we returned the real thing this is a copy" and that way everyone is happy
the British museum had the audacity to state that they are willing to "loan" the marbles to the Greek museum for limited display with the obligation to return them to the bm again! Bring the marbles back home!!
The British museum has a ton of stuff not even being on display, but they won't give these things back. When we went to Greece the museum was closed to prepare to be transferred to the new Parthenon museum, so we missed seeing a bunch. I really thought the British museum would give them back the Elgin marbles. Silly me.
The British Museum is one of my favourite museums in the world (that I have seen so far). It's so fascinating and even as a child I didn't find it boring at all. I can see the whole problem with some of it's exhibits though 😅 even if it's amazing being able to see things from all over the world in one place.
@@BirdsfromHuntingdon my friend you are saying a colonial empire can steal stuff and take it while killing people and then form a new country that is not colonial and be able to keep it. People are crazy now a days they defend evilness
@@BirdsfromHuntingdon then there shouldn’t be any problem with returning everything that wasn’t legitimately gifted by the original owners and asking for temporary cultural exchanges of displays in the future.
@@ulvschmidt7174 then they will do a little cough and go on to say how it was aquired: "We, um the BE, killed a load of people and made off with it..."
the content of this video is the sort of stuff that makes me laugh whenever people start pondering what it would be like if/when we make contact with life from other planets. i usually remind them of what tends to happen when cultures come into contact. pillaging artefacts and resources is only one part of the problem. the mass murder and sheer destruction that tends to occur is the main concern. if we know what's good for us, we'd stop broadcasting our existence into outer space. we can't seem to get along as inhabitants on one planet, so imagine what could be out there waiting for us.
Plus, hardly like the world's various peoples would work together to repel an attack from a society that would no doubt have bigger, badder weapons, and highly efficient harvesting systems in place. If we do get visited, it'll be to kill us, and harvest our planets resources.
I actually got to go during my brief stay in London and it left an impression on me. I went with a friend of mine who was Chinese, and let me just say... The James Acaster bit about the British Museum was 100% true. My friend saw an ancient scroll that she had known as replicas of it were used in basic children's education to teach some Chinese values, and this very old British man was trying to explain to her what it was and she was like... Yeah... I know more about it than you do. But, at the end of the day, it was one of the most impressive collections I've seen. I've always loved Museums. Another trip that sticks out to me is going to Memphis TN to see a traveling exhibit on Ancient China.
I love that James Acaster bit! But here's an interesting question, would your friend know more about the scroll if it was held in China? Perhaps the fact that it isn't makes the country more aware of it, its contents and history, etc etc. Same way everyone ignored the Mona Lisa for decades until it was stolen in 1911. I'm not saying this is a justification for the museum's "we're still looking at it" attitude, but I think it's an interesting question.
@@EveryFairyDies it’s been 10 years or so since that anecdote happened. But at the time she said it had been taught in China since ancient times… but who knows how accurate that statement could be considering how the CCP handles education. I think the scroll in question was taken during the Opium wars but also consider when Mao ordered the destruction of the 4 Olds during the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution where anything relating to China’s ancient history was purged. It could have been destroyed then so maybe in this case it is better England has it.
@@OctobersOblivion 75% of the world was under the control of a tiny island and look at all the modern powerhouses that were created by the British empire including the USA and India.
Didn't you see the megaprojects video on the 17th century Venetian supergun that could fire a shell over 1000km? I'm pretty sure it's around here somewhere.
Obviously just a little mistake, he referred to the Parthenon. But if we're being petty, there's of course also a Pantheon in Paris. Apart from that, THE Pantheon _was_ in Greece, on Mount Olympus. And with temples dedicated to Zeus, Dionysos, Athena, and Poseidon, the Acropolis might be termed a pantheon as well, I guess. So Simon wasn't that wrong even.
@@bomcabedal exactly! The term Pantheon is Hellenic! Πάνθεον / pántheon Παν Θεόν / pan theon Meaning All Gods, the whole complete family of Gods! Also, for the History, Romans had different Gods before they were influenced by Hellenes! When they conquered us adopted many aspects of our culture, including religion. Then, they just renamed the Hellenic Gods with Latin names and boom 💥 the Roman pantheon Zeus became Jupiter Hera became Juno Athena became Minerva Poseidon became Neptune Hades became Pluto Artemis became Diana Aphrodite became Venus Hephaestus became Vulcan Demeter became Ceres Hestia is Vesta Eros became Cupid Kronos became Saturn Uranos became Caelus… etc etc etc… Pantheon or Parthenon, you can find them both in Hellas! Our country’s name is Hellas (Ελλάς) Romans named us Graeci for their own reasons…
Is there a reward if I turn the British Museum in for possession of stolen property? Not that I’m anti-British, it was the one you named repeatedly. No doubt the Smithsonian has plenty of hot goods.
By that logic Americans stole land and resources from the locals and should totally give them back and go back to Europe too. Lots of English need to leave too, having come from Saxony and with the Vikings.
Personally, I appreciate the fact that many of these exhibits are currently in a place that makes viewing of the marvels easily accessible to the entire world. That won't be the case in some circumstances, should they be returned to countries of origin. I'm not suggesting that England has a "right" to them, I'm facing the fact that returns can be complicated, and as Whistler admitted, can at times lead to the loss of the items from public view entirely. I abhor the idea of private collectors hording such historical items and in MANY situations in the past, that is what has become of multiple items throughout time. At least in a museum (wherever it may be located) we know they still exist and can be publicly viewed. This is not always the case everywhere.
Well put. Preserving the culture heritage of the human race is, indeed, a noble undertaking which costs the British government millions of pounds each year to sustain. It is a gift to humanity.
If an individual did this, they'd go to jail for theft. A museum? They act like they are above the law and we let them get away with it. WE must make them be held accountable to the same laws to which we are accountable.
also the British Museum "cleaned" the Elgin Marbles with ACID and helped them pit and being even more endangered .. and basically look like crap. This was in the 20th century!
Ah, history. Such a flexible thing. Embellished and reinvented at each new retelling, as people become characters and events become scenes, bending to the will of the storyteller.
Been to the British museum,Ashmolean, the Louvre, the MET, Heard Museum, (phoenix), and have observed artifacts from various private collections. Much of these colletions if not all would not exist without the careful preservation of people who actually CARE about history...
So Greece doesn’t care about history? Plus, this is not your call to make because these artifacts are not your cultural heritage. These artifacts don’t showcase the beauty of your culture!!!
@@omta7188 no, the ottomans did not care, the Parthenon was partially destroyed, by the the fact it was made into an arsenal. Parts of the Parthenon, very amazing parts were saved by the efforts of a man (elgin) who appreciated the genius of the Greeks. At some point, I've no doubt they will be returned to the museum of athens....
@@garymills562 The man who stole them to decorate his own home didn't give a shit about the culture, significance of the marbles neither did he respect the nation or the people he stole them from. He liked the look of them but he most certainly didn't care about history.
@chinyereugwu9431 BS the ottomans blew up the Parthenon, after it had been used for an arsenal. British, French, German, American archeologists have saved thousands of historical sites all over the world.
You can say that about most museums ,I'm sure absolutely sure that most museums in America have thousands of stolen goods , with murder the least of it...
I live near the Metropolitan museum of art in NYC, and they literally moved whole Egyptian temples stone by stone to the museum. As a kid I thought it was cool. As an adult, not so much
Big difference with Egyptian artifacts and structures in nyc. The United States never ruled and looted Egypt. What we have was given to us, including the real Egyptian obelisk in Central Park, which was gifted to us in commemoration of the completion of the Suez canal.
I enjoy museums and have since I was an elementary school student. I had the pleasure of visiting the Imperial War Museum in 1976 and the Duxford airfield museum that same year.
Obviously a ton of this stuff is a no-brainer to return, but I also think it’s sometimes not *as* easy to say as the initial “well, duh” instinct would give you. In some cases it’s not even that obvious who it would be returned to. Unfortunately that small number of legitimately hard cases will probably always be used as a shield to avoid doing anything about most of easy and obvious cases.
The first and last time you will see anything British at the museum is on the sign on the way in which says British museum. Native indigenous history is hidden in the vault and instead, foreign history of the roman Saxon and norman is presented. All Johnny come lately when you consider the millennia that the native Cymru have been here. Stone henge may be managed by English Heritage but the English have nothing to do with the monument other than it standing in an area that was to become England in relatively recent times.
It's probably best to just laser-cut every disputed museum artifact in HALF, and then the 2 different nations' museums can just turn artifacts to the left or to the right, to display their good half. Problem solved!
I've been thinking we need to get back on doing high quality replicas so the originals can go home while the replicas go wherever. By the powers of 3D scanning and printing technology, and the Experimental Archaeologists figuring out how people did things in the past, I summon thee!
We could invite representatives from each nation to some laser cutting room, and propose cutting the object in half in front of them and see if they are happy with that. Sounds familiar.
I think it should be done on a case by case basis. Artifacts that have a safe place in their country of origin should be sent back. However, artifacts that would be in danger if sent back should stay. Besides, it wouldn't be that difficult to have replicas made for display and send the originals back.
But again...who gets to say what is deemed "safe"? That can be subjective. And what assumptions are being made by saying who or what nation is "capable" of caring for their own cultural artifacts?
I live in Connecticut. I've been to the Peabody Museum, numerous times, at Yale. They have an Egyptian Mummy. I always thought it was sacrilegious for it to be here.
I've been to the British Museum. It was the only place I went to, in London. And, I didn't actually see much of it. I remember seeing some of those. It was in 2006. I was returning to here, Cape Town, South Africa, from a trip to the USA. The flight arrived early in the morning, at Heathrow, London. The connecting flight would only be that evening. As it was a day in London, I thought I'd see the British Museum. But, I was so tired and dazed, unfortunately. And, the underground trains took so long to get there, and back. The previous year, it was the same story, with the flights, and a day in London. I spent that day sleeping at Heathrow, or trying to. I thought that this time I could fight it, but no use.
I remember my visit to the British Museum when I was in London. Knew nothing about its history as a facility, but while I was inside admiring the Egyptian display, I remember thinking 'this is a building full of a stolen stuff.' Didn't stop me from finding the entire place amazing and wanting to go back, but it's an undeniable fact.
That Egypt room is awesome. I spent a few hours there several years ago. I don't know how they came to acquire all that but it's not like Egypt is lacking for Egyptian relics. The Cairo museum is also one of the world's best.
No, actually the 'stolen stuff' was all scattered, melted down, and lost to history forever. That's how much the Egyptians cared about their own cultural treasures. What you saw in the British Museum was the rescued stuff.
@@garethwigglesworth8187 flimsy argument, not all poor countries are the same and not all heritage sites are treated in the same way. You could design a set of criteria for state stability, museum security and preservation regimen before handing goods over but of course there's no will to that end so it won't happen.
The Elgin marbles were taken with the permission of the Ottomans who were in charge of Greece at the time so the British museum has them legally. The case could be made for Greece to be allowed to buy them back though.
You could make a whole video on the bodies of some Australian First Nations people’s that were stolen for study during the British colonisation of Australia, however they are now just sitting in storage in the British museum. The remains need to be returned to the nations in which they were taken for re-burial ( or for the nations to decide what they wish to do with the remains) as the removal of the bodies was incredibly culturally insensitive and the nature of the study conducted on the remains was primarily motivated by the British sense of racial superiority and was mostly based on early forms of pseudo-sciences like eugenics and other sociobiological theories that perpetuated the notion of racial superiority
Don’t you watch Sky News from Australia? The British came to civilize them, cause how could they go on without them like they had done for thousands of years before /s. Lol. Yeah it’s a trip how white Australians think that they have forefathers there and like they grew from the ground or something. Lol. Like no, your ancestor was either a convict, warden, marine, or sailor. Maybe even a miner, but not ‘indigenous’. I just did a quite expensive DNA test to see where my ancestors were from and I’m JUST over 51% American Indigenous to the Baja California region(except the US part, like east county San Diego) and I also got French from southern France, Spanish from a town close to Portugal , and German with earlier ties to Western Prussia. I had no idea about that and I just knew my grandpa was German, but I never met him. He moved from Germany to Mexico in the late 1890s with his family who owned an avacado Ranch, then he met my grandma who was from Oaxaca and was really indigenous but she had green eyes , I don’t know how that happened. But I was stoked when I saw over 50% indigenous so when racists say go back to where you came from, I just reply with I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be, however you’re more than welcome here. 😂.
The ugly fact of the matter is that you're going to feel a sense of superiority if you're arriving in places that are still in the stone age in the 1700s and 1800s. We know of course that their lack of development was just due to their isolation from Eurasia and that it's nothing to do with racial inferiority, but I don't blame people at the time who attended great music halls and lived in grand country houses for coming to false conclusions. Can you imagine sailing to the other side of the world on what can only be described as a floating wooden Palace, and you arrive to a sight that wouldn't look out of place in the neolithic period. You'd be fascinated
@@Joker-yw9hl ok but it's still wrong and the British people of today have modern sensibilities so they should give the bodies back, really easy to do the moral thing that your ancestors didn't
The Great British Empire, liberating people by colonizing and looting since the very beginning. The fact that the items still aren't returned show that they aren't ashamed of the cruel and brutal past. I even heard that some Brits think they did a favour to their colonies by teaching english and giving religion.
@ibang yermom...a pretty good summary of reality. Wil probably only generate five milliseconds of cognitive dissonance in the righteous ones unfortunately lol....
If you think about it many of the ancient artifacts in the British museum were most likely built using slaves so they should be returned to the ancestors of the slaves. not to the governments of the country's where they came from who would be the ancestors of the masters.
Do you apply the same standard to American and other museums? Or is your triggered, SJW, PC sensitivity hypocritically focused in the British Museum, championing return of these items...just so long as they go where you want them to go, with no thought as to whether they will just end up looted by Russians, Saudis, Chinese and so on, or blown up by Islamists.
@@owenshebbeare2999 Thats an awful lot of Strawmaning you´re doing there sonny, don´t hurt yourself, kid XD All i said is that title is glorious. It´s funny because it´s true.
Small point, but the initial footage of the 'British Museum' is actually the National Portrait Gallery as viewed from Trafalgar Square, there's no balcony on the steps up to the doors of the British Museum
Technically aren't all museums a collection of other people's stuff? I don't think any museum manufacturers its own items on display. I think that's called a shop.
If u go to a museum in China u will see artifacts from Chinese history...go to museum in India u will see artifacts from Indian history same for Egypt, Ethiopia, Sudan .... Go to British museum u see items stolen from other people's history
@@NubiansNapata I've been to a museum in India and they had many hundreds of artifacts from around the world. Including British artifacts. So that's BS 😂. And every one on this earth can trace there history back to the rift valley in Ethiopia. Maybe there would be less racism in the world if we stopped grouping ourselves into make believe groups. the lines between countries are imaginary and we are all part of the human race.
I'm Native American, with that said, I don't know how people justify keeping artifacts and property gained by their ancestor's horse trading. I also understand the shear pitfall that could result if heritage property started to get returned to the proper people. Everyone with even the shakiest claim to a valuable item would be crawling out of the woodwork.
If you’re native then you should understand NAGPRA and the other various rules and regulations governing the return of artifacts and remains, etc. Claims are not “ shaky”. There is a protocol. If you’re an MLD you’re involved in the process.
@@c.m.cordero1772 that's the point that I apparently have failed to make, if you don't have a method of regulation and well defined claim limits, people are going to people and make paper thin connections to property. Clogging up the system and delaying the legit cases.
Why does the National Gallery appear at 0:40 - has it become part of the British Museum since I last checked? (mind you, I haven't checked lately - maybe it has!)
As an American, I strongly agree with the British Museum maintaining these artifacts. The United Kingdom is under a stronger governance than any of the other countries, and therefore the security and preservation of these artifacts is guaranteed further by holding them in the UK, rather than corrupt countries like Greece.
"Liberating the population from a reign of terror". A timeless strategy. Idea for a Megaproject episode: the Western propaganda machine for manufacturing consent to invade anyone we don't like.
Right... I had to check it out but that definitely is the National Gallery, and not the Museum. The interiors are of the museum so you did get that correct..... as well as " give the things back." Would be good to make really good copies and then hand over the originals. In sufficient time the debate will become which is the original ;-)
Then there is the obelisk of Luxor, a "gift" from the Viceroy of Egypt to France. However, such objects do not belong to any king or ruler so it is not theirs to give. This time, the instigator was Champollion, who as key in deciphering the hieroglyphs. By the way, the fully erect baboons at the base of the obelisk were removed and are in the Louvre museum.
I mean, he left out a fuckton of context to paint the Greeks in a better light... To quote another comment: "With the Elgin Marbles isn't it odd that they were legally acquired but the Greek authorities say they were stolen because other things were.... 🤔 How does the fact that other things were taken illegally make it so the marbles were? Not saying they shouldn't go back but wondering where the logic is to the argument Greece is making. Why not say yhea they were acquired legally but now we'd like them back can we find a way to make that happen."
@@GoldenSunAlex I mean, he didn't.. "There is no official document testifying the Parthenon sculptures were lawfully taken to the British Museum, researchers say. So far the British Museum had been claiming that the marbles were taken to the UK with the Sultan’s permission, but now this is challenged as no document providing proof of this is available. The British Museum claims that when Elgin removed the sculptures from the Parthenon he had permission from the Sultan. The document, however, testifying this is not preserved. The one available in the museum’s archives today is a friendly letter from Kaimakam Pasha, authorizing Elgin to take casts of the sculptures; in fact it is a later translation into Italian of the letter. Eleni Korka, Honorary General Director of Antiquities, has stated that the letter, not by the Sultan himself but by Kaimakam Pasha, who was replacing the Grand Vizier and was at the time in Constantinople, cannot be considered an official Ottoman document. Another researcher, Sarian Panahi from Iran, who can read Ottoman Turkish - one of the few historians nowadays capable of doing so - has also stated that there is no firman, namely official document deriving from the Sultan- for the transfer of the sculptures, against the museum’s claim that other documents prove the lawful removal of the marbles. Two Turkish researchers, Zeynep Aygen and Orhan Sakin, also confirmed this, in an interview at the Acropolis Museum, where they presented a study of official documents from the Ottoman Empire related to Lord Elgin. They highlighted the fact that since all firmans and their content were written in a special book, this firman that the British argue existed should also have been included there. " So where exactly are you basing your claim that they were legally acquired? Also what's your source that " greek authorities say they were stolen because other things were"?
The idea of the Greeks building a Museum of the Parthenon with a special display area for the Marbles - which is conspicuously empty - is simply magnificent.
For decades the British museum's excuse for not giving back the marbles was that Greece doesn't have any "proper" place for them, so the Greeks answered by building an entire museum dedicated to acropolis and Parthenon 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous they still haven't returned
The only reason it was even built was for political reasons. The British museum was the worlds first museum and built for the purpose and showing the history of the world.
@@jaredgarbo3679 not really a solid excuse for withholding national treasures though is it
If the countries of origin agree to let them stay there for the reasons you state that's one thing. But to hold them out of nothing but greed is a different matter entirely
@@jaredgarbo3679 That doesn't mean you get people's shit when they want it back. That's like me stealing cars and saying it's fair because I'm showing them off at car shows.
The British museum saying Greece can't have it's statues back because they don't have a good place to store it is like a car thief saying you can't have your car back because you don't have a garage to store it in.
Especially when, in this case, the garage in question is more of a bleeding edge, modern building with storage conditions far exceeding the cozy embrace of the perpetrator.
No, no it’s not the same thing at all. Greece redefined the meaning of bankruptcy, and nobody with a brain is convinced they’ve permanently left that nonsense behind them. No, they don’t get those items back. This is the way the earth has operated since one tribe took another tribes sacred stick and displayed it. You don’t change millennia of doing things one way unless it’s something like slavery, which this is not. Who cares where the artifacts are displayed, the most important thing is they are displayed safely, and correctly somewhere out of the reach of a population that at any moment could go back to tearing the country apart because all their socialist programs have bankrupted the country again. If they don’t like it, show the world you can act like adults for more than a decade, and then buy your artifacts back. Too bad, so sad.
@@KelticTim nah bro bankrupcy is not going to magically destroy the statues saying that it doesn't matter where the statues are is like saying that as long as the Queen of Britain is good she could even be a non english speaking chinese
@@ap6480 what are you talking about? Ancient statues don’t just get set up and then there’s no cost that goes along with them. Right from the start, getting them displayed properly, including a place to actually show them, security, and upkeep all costs millions per annum. How exactly do they pay for it with no money? Why not leave them where they can be properly displayed and cared for until the country is fiscally sound and they can take over from there?
@@KelticTim they litteraly have prepared a museum to display it lol, you didn't even pay attention to the video, obviously the British museum doesn't give it back to greece because they want to keep receiving money, everything that you're saying is utter nonsense, greece isn't poor enough to not be capable of having a museum, even because they already have prepared a place to display the statues in one of their museums
A bobby walks in to the foyer and looks around:
"Alright alright, wots all this then?"
@@lukewhoisagamer3084 I don't know mate, you tell me
Got a loicense for all this then
Receiving stolen goods eh? Yer nicked!
Sargent Colon and Corporal Nobbs no doubt.
It all fell off the back of a lorry, and landed in my front garden!
In these techno days, the British Museum should laser-scan the Elgin Marbles, make full-size 3D-printed copies, return the originals to Greece, and make a new exhibit featuring the copies addressing the history of the originals - letting school kids see them at eye level to emphasize the awesome efforts required to create the originals.
I wonder how one can print marble.
3D printing is awesome technology. Or even make holograms of them and project them in 3D.
@@jeffersonkee6440 It doesn't have to be literal marble. People aren't going to be actually touching them to feel if they are real. A lot of things in museums are already replicas anyways. Often a mold is made and they use a mixture of marble powder and resin to cast a realistic looking replica. 3D molds can be printed.
@@lebby1688 Though it would be cool to have them commissioned out of marble, and recording the making of them using as close as we can get to the methods that were originally used to make them. Can go from just a display of "these were made by blank and we stole them" to a proper lesson on history, art, ethics, and manufacturing!
@@lebby1688 right, I hope nobody watching this video thinks dinosaur skeletons in museums are actual bones 😀
My wife and I did a trip to Italy, with a cruise to multiple places in Greece and Turkey.
Lots of excursions to local museums and amazing places.
The common them was "here's the little stuff, the good stuff is in the British Museum".
Sidenote: All the stuff in Turkey is Greek as well.
@@tonyatthebeachI’m sure the Turks have some of their own stuff as well, right? I’m sure Greece also has artifacts it’s taken as well, right? I think ALL museums are a trip. They should be returned and the country of origin should make a replica for whichever museum wants to display what it would look like. Cause it’s not like visitors could touch the damn super rare stuff, it’s just for aesthetic and to look at. I think it’s more of a power move. Especially any countries ‘National Museum’. Or they could put stuff on lend if they want the way China does with Pandas.
@@NoddNup Nope, tour all of Greece and you won't find any Turkish artefacts, tour Turkey and you'll find the vast majority are ancient Greek, Roman and Byzantine artefacts (basically medieval Greek). The Turks were nomads from central Asia who only took over the Byzantine Empire in the mid 15th centrury and had little notable culture so their exclusively Turkish museums only have pieces from the late middle ages/early renaissance onwards, which is mostly a bunch of rugs. Meanwhile, the Greeks had dominated the region for about 8,000 years from the neolithic age and produced the amazing art, architecture, literature, mathematics etc that is familiar worldwide and still taught in schools to this day. Google Turkey and the first thing that pops up is the Hagia Sophia, a Byzantine church with the largest dome in the world for 1,000 years. I'll grant the Turks one thing...they invented the donner kebab in the 70's.
Wait until you find out why the Roman stuff is in Britain , including the largest Roman artifact in the world 🧐🧐
The British Museum literally said: "hippity hoppity this is now my property".
I mean that was the whole British Empire, but yeah
@@russellgxy2905 pretty much what empires are about.
Love this. I wish I thought of something so clever.
This made my morning, thank you lol
Bibbity boppity this is now a monopoly
I read a news story a few years back about a “bronze bowl” that was in a nice house in Switzerland, being used as a tennis ball holder. Turns out it was a bronze Censor Bowl (used to burn incense) at the Chinese Imperial Court. Ended up being purchased by an “Unnamed Chinese Buyer” for a big GOB of money.
My mother once had to assess a disabled elderly man in a posh old house. He had a Greek painted figure wine vessel that was still used for that purpose.
* looks around house for old bowls *
The gold cup from Rillaton Barrow in Cornwall went missing for many years, and was found, quite by chance, in King George V's appartments in Buckingham Palace, where (probably apocraphally) he had been using it to hold collar studs.
Well the red chinese do like to censor info.
@@Sideprojects If you find one that looks like this, you may be in luck: www.cnn.com/style/article/chinese-bowl-tennis-balls-intl-scli/index.html
The British Museum: the biggest Trophy Room in the world.
Nothing wrong with that.
@@thisguy5484 Except for all those original owners of said trophies who had their stuff stolen.
@@arcturionblade1077 well why dont we go right back through history to ancient Egypt and return everything that everyone thinks is stolen from everyone else?
Conquers spoil...just part of history
wait till the pc crowd make syou give it all back
Yeah but it's fucking 😎
Me: **steals my neighbor's car**
Neighbor: Ummm... I'd like my car back.
Me: No thanks. I'd like to keep your car.
Neighbor: It is literally mine, please give it back.
Me: How do I know you can take care of your car?
Neighbor: I took care of it just fine before you stole it!
Me: But I have it now, so that proves you can't take care of it. Besides I really like having a car.
Neighbor: Please just give it back!
Me: How about I keep your car, but I let you use it every now and then? That's seems fair to me!
This is literally what the British Museum sounds like.
"The british proceeded to burn down the palace, a task which took 3500 men more than 3 day due to the sheer size of the estate". That sentence makes me think that just as "Vandalize" is a word in english, "Britishize" might be a word in chinese.. or mandarin if thats what's it's called.
If this video does well, Simon could make at least a 50 part series on this.
He could do one on the Jewish treasures stolen during the Holocaust...
More like: if this video does well, Simon will start a new channel that talks about it.
It did so well, Last Week Tonight basically just redid it.
@@mhorlor well… James Acaster was kinda first. His story telling of the joke matched an experience I had going with my Chinese friend, who the very old patronizing man kept trying to explain to her why something was important to her culture and she kept trying to explain she’d studied it in elementary school. It was an ancient Chinese scroll about teaching manners to children and to respect elders, and I just remember how dismissive he was toward her acting like she didn’t understand how important it was to the Chinese people. And that man was BRITISH.
@@Varizen87 pure brit arrogance....
Love the title. Delightfully petty. Impeccably British.
This has been my TedTalk
Link to the ted talk pls
In a certain respect most large museums are that way.
@@kanada2525 Here it is
ua-cam.com/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/v-deo.html
@@janejones7638 most active crimes scene in the world.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I saw so many cultural artifacts from India in the British Museum. There is even a set of statues that trace their origin back to our family temple. The temple was made to give the gold statues up as Tax to continue operating in the Madras Presidency
It's beautiful isn't it.
@@derekbentley196 nah not really...just shows how u have no history
@@NubiansNapata Indian artifacts are not even 1% of what's inside the British Museum.
Try harder next time🤣
@@derekbentley196 what does it feel like to be in a country that is moving towards ignominy? Your country doesn't really have a long term future
You'll be a people living on an irrelevant island by the time we reach 2050.
@@fangdog29 I don't know, I moved from London 5 years ago. The UK is nice until you earn $100k+ USD a year, then the tax is too much 😜
“Get your shit together!”….”Allegedly”…Love this guy! 💪
I’m reminded of the kindergarten nursery rhyme from my childhood…. “Finders Keepers, Losers Weepers”.
My sister used to take things and then refuse the give them back, claiming “possession is nine-tenths of the law.”
You remember it from your kindergarten because you still think like a baby
My mother took me to that museum. Once. And refused to ever go to a museum with me again, because I stopped at
Every
Exhibit.
Even the stamp collection.
I am the same, though I have the habit also of taking many many photos of exhibits too, lol. On one particular visit to the National Museum of China in Beijing, I was in there for 6 hours and walked out with over 4000 photos … it’s my addiction lol
@@andrewstokes2381 pretty sure 6hrs wouldnt even get you around one wing of the British Museum, the place is insane
I used to live in the UK and went to the museum a lot.
The first time I spent 3 hours in just the first gallery. The one where they were displaying the Rosetta stone.
My sister came back after tearing through the whole place and was incredulous that I hadn't even made it out of that one room
I visited when you could actually touch the Rosetta stone. (The real one, not the new replica) I had to. So much history in a slab of stone. Napoleon had seen it, and wondered about it, and the brilliant Champollion managed to decipher it after a long time of trying. My mate who I was with, thought I'd lost the plot.
@@thesherbet - I've spent three hours just looking at the Greek red and black ware - the illustrations are gorgeous, funny, and extremely graphic in some cases, and all utterly fascinating. I love the writings of Homer, and Ovid's earthy 'Metamorphoses', so this was bliss - also, not many kids or casual visitors seemed interested in ancient pottery, so nice and quiet.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say you could have an entire channel about items in the British Museum's collection that were stolen from their home country.
If their home countries were civilized, they'd be in their own museums.
And what countries do you consider uncivilized?
"Stolen" is such a strong word. We prefer borrowed on a permanent basis
Please... He has enough channels, don't give him more ideas.
@@jbrisby ,
I never knew murder, rape and theft to be ‘civilised’ ..or are you calling the people who were raped, murdered and robbed the uncivilised ? And if these people aren’t civicilised, how do they have history so important, that the British stole it and kept it away from its people ? Africans were trading with eachother at a time Europeans were dragging their hunt back to their caves. You don’t know the meaning of the word civilised.
Indiana Jones: "It belongs in a museum!"
Us: "Hold on, fam."
Hey, Indy's not wrong, and he didn't say which museum...
Han Solo: "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side."
Us: Okay you have had enough buddy. Hey! Somebody call Harrison Ford a cab.
As long as it is a US museum
My dad was an engineer there. He was in charge of returning a Moai Monolithic back to Easter Island. Some stuff gets returned
If it's not really popular with tourists, like the Parthenon Marbles are. Returning items is the bare minimum of common decency, by the way, so it's not something they should get a pat on the back for doing. Giving back what you stole is just the right thing to do.
@@hoppytoad79 imagine having to visit individual countries for single artifacts lmaoo just don’t even bother
I'm from Elgin in Scotland, we get so many tourists that think the marbles are in our tiny museum 😂
Lemme guess, a majority of them are my countrymen? Do they chant "U.S.A., U.S.A." afterwards lmao.
The Pergamon Museum in Berlin is a more interesting example of the "it's safer here" attitude. They saved their collection from World War 2, but during the Soviet occupation some of the artifacts made their way to Russia and never came back.
I mean I can totally relate to agreeing on them taking stuff when you know the stories about torture, gulag and shootings. Back in WW2 they were lucky to keep their stuff after the downfall of the 3rd Reich. I am sure they had the same choice in both time periods: "sure, I will hand you your requested items if I can keep the rest"
get them back to Turkey.
Spent a day in this museum and I was totally blown away. Morality questions aside, it is absolutely astounding and awesome to be able to see all that stuff in one place.
As a Mexican was impressive for me to watch the beautiful collection of Mayan artifacts there.
I have no desire to go to England. So I’ll never see it. I likely would have seen some of the things that originated closer to me if they’d left them where they were. Maybe I will when they give them back.
@@BadBoy93143 would have been more impressive to see them in Mexico.
The British Museum is about the coolest place under a roof that there is. (Pompeii being the coolest without a roof.)
Simon: “The British museum…”
Video: *Establishing shot of the national gallery* 🤦♂️
doesn't look like Simon has been to the British Museum in some time 😂😂😂
haha. you beat me to it. its like when ‘London Bridge’ is mentioned anywhere outside of the UK
I’m Australian and even I knew that was the National Gallery
The first thing that sprang into my mind too - "That's the National Portrait Gallery!"
Speaks volumes about the quality of most information on the interweb aka lots of stolen b roll of the wrong thing
Twice while speaking of the British Museum you've shown images of the National Gallery.
Okay, so both are neo-classical buildings…
The only problem is every time an artifact is returned to these countries it goes missing, either turning up in a private collection years later or melted down to never be seen again.
That's not true. Scotland returned some of it's artifacts to Nigeria including the Benin bronze previously owned by the University of Aberdeen. I saw them just before the pandemic on a trip to the country in a Delta state museum. That's one time that contradicts your assumptions/generalization.
Wait until the islamists take over nigeria. They will destroy the bronzes as idolatrous and you will wish they had stayed in Scotland
After going through the Vatican, I think they are in the same boat as the British Museum, would be great to see Simon do a story on the Vatican treasures
He has done at least two. Not sure which channel.
Might difficult talking about all the crap the Vatican has, considering no one outside of the Vatican really knows what they have.
The Vatican has so much it makes the British museum look a bit sad and pathetic really. They're definitely in the same boat though but the British museum seems to get a lot more attention on this issue
@@mattymc6802 Everyone loves hating on Britain, but nobody says shit about the Vatican or Mecca which both are full of gold and riches and both stolen.
Much of the Vatican museum treasures were given or funded by the Vatican. Not a good comparison.
You know what history I'd like to hear about? The other ussr 5 year plans
I second that motion
As do I
To the gulag with you!
Was there ever a list made of all the art work the Russia nicked from Germany, who nicked it from most of Europe in WW2 ?, I was always interested where all those peoples properties ended up & what they were ?, or is that just me again.
It's simple, like in my game Humankind I don't pass the "workers charter" tech so I can sacrifice workers to build factory instantly. Don't worry comrades I'm sure they where counter revolutionarys
This was good. But with the British Museum structure itself being a large historical building, could we get a video covering the history of the actual museum itself?
I can imagine british museum curators discussing if they should return stolen arts, until the one innocent soul amongst them asks: "Guys... are we the baddies?" 😂
cf Mitchell and Webb sketch
not stolen, no matter how you look at it.
@norm VERY CLEARLY STOLEN.
@@normholman7035you for got ur /s there dude
Really surprised the Rosetta Stone wasn’t mentioned in this. Or the top half of the ramesses II colossal granite sculpture. And all of the stolen mummies. Especially with the grand Egyptian museum opening this year.
I would rather go to England. Keep the stuff in England.
None of those things are stolen you cabbage... go learn about them and then comment. Fml
I was surprised too. I'll be in London soon and I'm thinking of visiting the British Museum but i'm in two minds about it. Should be give money to a museum that has looted items by way of bloodshed, rape and torture?
@@jagdeepkaul1261 When you go, just let them all know how much you disapprove. Bring it up constantly.
@@jagdeepkaul1261 It's free entry, you don't have to give them anything
"So all of what you see here..."
"Is this even legal?"
"Well, no one objected to us taking it. Granted, we didn't ask anyone. We also weren't listening."
"But if they ask for it, will you give it back?"
"What part of 'not listening' did you not understand?"
They can't ask for it. They are dead.
@@angrytedtalks Their descendants could certainly ask.
@@eshbena You mean the exiled royals or the remaining corrupt slave owners in Nigeria?
@@angrytedtalks The kingdom of Benin and the ruler, the Oba still exist, not sure what you are on about, especially with the salve owners thing
@@ikayfuma Benin is part of modern Nigeria. Nigeria became a Republic in 1960. The "Kings" and "Princes" of Nigeria are tribal leaders, whose ancestors enslaved their countrymen to sell to Europeans in the Atlantic slave trade era. The last legitimate monarch of Nigeria is HM Queen Elizabeth II, because of the British Empire acquisition of Benin in the Victorian era.
There are over one million slaves in Nigeria today and it is the most corrupt country in the world.
There are of course people who think that the artwork of hundreds of years ago, commissioned by the slave trading royalty of the day should be "returned".
Do you think that such people want to treasure the artifacts and celebrate the ancient culture - or greedily sell off the artifacts for profit?
I would love to think that there are good people who will protect the artifacts in Nigeria and everyone can enjoy learning about the artwork and the extinct culture from which they came.
A number of artifacts were in fact sold to collectors in Africa; the British museum is particular about where the items are going.
I'm all for the gathering of relics for protection from possible destruction. However, what I worry about more is having a collection from an array of different cultures in a single place. Single point of failure if a destructive event occurs and the subsequent loss from so many sources would be far more devastating than the bottom line of any institution.
Yeah but Benin and Greece are way more likely to have destabilizing events than the UK is . That's just the truth even though it might not be right they probably wouldn't exist if britian didn't take them
IKR. Ever since Brexit UK governments have become more and more unhinged. Long term the country could turn into a very unsafe place to keep so many artifacts.
I think that’s the best tag line and most accurate description of any Sideprojects video ever
X2
I found it cringe
@@scrotusmaximus3043 you must hate facts then
@@Tuskin38 No You
@The Scary Heathen 😈 - Are you aware that none of the countries mentioned in this video are Islamic? of course you aren't - racists are stupid.
I'm for returning the marbles to Greece .....But.
With that being said I believe credit should be given to Lord Elgen for rescuing them from certain destruction from the elements and the general lack of any care for the sites at the time.
There's no doubt in my mind that had he not done what he did we wouldn't have them to argue ownership over today.
I highly recommend to change the picture of the National Gallery in London in the beginning of the video to a picture of the British Museum. I think these details are important in case of high quality videos such as this one. Keep up the great work!
Allegedly.
Glad to see that Blazing Simon is infiltrating the rest of Simon's channels.
OGBB!!!!
Alright, alright, not to be petty, but you’re like the 30000 person to point this out. Enough copy/paste comments amigo.
@@austinkilpatrick7809 And you crying about it is the exact same thing
Side Blaze...
Man, remember the start of business blaze, when the videos were about business? That shit was wild, getting hit by allegedlies left and right
I spent a month in London and went to the British museum nearly daily. It was right near my lodgings so it became part of my morning routine. I was 19 and there for some classes.
The british museum can create copies/replicas for display and put a disclaimer "we returned the real thing this is a copy" and that way everyone is happy
the British museum had the audacity to state that they are willing to "loan" the marbles to the Greek museum for limited display with the obligation to return them to the bm again! Bring the marbles back home!!
Greece should "borrow" them and then keep them
@@seanj3667 Then if the Brits complain the Greeks should say "We're celebrating your culture".
@@biggiedii4889 and this is exactly why they’re never seeing Greek soil again
The British museum has a ton of stuff not even being on display, but they won't give these things back. When we went to Greece the museum was closed to prepare to be transferred to the new Parthenon museum, so we missed seeing a bunch. I really thought the British museum would give them back the Elgin marbles. Silly me.
The British Museum is one of my favourite museums in the world (that I have seen so far). It's so fascinating and even as a child I didn't find it boring at all. I can see the whole problem with some of it's exhibits though 😅 even if it's amazing being able to see things from all over the world in one place.
There is no problem with its exhibits
@@BirdsfromHuntingdon my friend you are saying a colonial empire can steal stuff and take it while killing people and then form a new country that is not colonial and be able to keep it. People are crazy now a days they defend evilness
@@Hi-xu9xn But the British empire didn’t just steal everything.. people assume everything the British did was evil and done with ill intentions
@@BirdsfromHuntingdon then there shouldn’t be any problem with returning everything that wasn’t legitimately gifted by the original owners and asking for temporary cultural exchanges of displays in the future.
@@BirdsfromHuntingdon I feel like stealing whatever the fuck you want is probably a bad thing to do... And there is no good intention behind it
Never ask a women her age
Never ask a man his salary
Never ask The British Museum where thing come from
@John Barber Why not correct the other mistakes while you're at it.
The british museum will happily tell you where something is from
Never ask a guitar player how many guitars they own
@@ulvschmidt7174 then they will do a little cough and go on to say how it was aquired: "We, um the BE, killed a load of people and made off with it..."
@@Outside85 What age did you drop out of middle school?
2:30: Simon, the Pantheon is in Rome. The Parthenon is in Athens 😂
Good catch. This flew past me. We know what he meant, which is all that's really important.
Yeah. Pretty easy mistake to make, though.
the content of this video is the sort of stuff that makes me laugh whenever people start pondering what it would be like if/when we make contact with life from other planets. i usually remind them of what tends to happen when cultures come into contact. pillaging artefacts and resources is only one part of the problem. the mass murder and sheer destruction that tends to occur is the main concern. if we know what's good for us, we'd stop broadcasting our existence into outer space. we can't seem to get along as inhabitants on one planet, so imagine what could be out there waiting for us.
Plus, hardly like the world's various peoples would work together to repel an attack from a society that would no doubt have bigger, badder weapons, and highly efficient harvesting systems in place. If we do get visited, it'll be to kill us, and harvest our planets resources.
It's like that thing that went around the internet a while back - Q: What seems like it's British but actually isn't British? A: The British Museum.
I actually got to go during my brief stay in London and it left an impression on me. I went with a friend of mine who was Chinese, and let me just say... The James Acaster bit about the British Museum was 100% true. My friend saw an ancient scroll that she had known as replicas of it were used in basic children's education to teach some Chinese values, and this very old British man was trying to explain to her what it was and she was like... Yeah... I know more about it than you do.
But, at the end of the day, it was one of the most impressive collections I've seen. I've always loved Museums. Another trip that sticks out to me is going to Memphis TN to see a traveling exhibit on Ancient China.
I love that James Acaster bit! But here's an interesting question, would your friend know more about the scroll if it was held in China? Perhaps the fact that it isn't makes the country more aware of it, its contents and history, etc etc. Same way everyone ignored the Mona Lisa for decades until it was stolen in 1911. I'm not saying this is a justification for the museum's "we're still looking at it" attitude, but I think it's an interesting question.
@@EveryFairyDies it’s been 10 years or so since that anecdote happened. But at the time she said it had been taught in China since ancient times… but who knows how accurate that statement could be considering how the CCP handles education. I think the scroll in question was taken during the Opium wars but also consider when Mao ordered the destruction of the 4 Olds during the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution where anything relating to China’s ancient history was purged. It could have been destroyed then so maybe in this case it is better England has it.
The British Museum: Hey! We killed a lot of people to get that, hands off!
Master Chief you didn't do anything clown
@Master Chief sure thing mAsTeR cHief 😎🤓🤡
@@OctobersOblivion 75% of the world was under the control of a tiny island and look at all the modern powerhouses that were created by the British empire including the USA and India.
@@tomw6947 and you had nothing to do with it, is my point. I know world history, chump.
@@OctobersOblivion Well I know, I wasn't around 150-200 years ago you're correct well done.
I think you will find the Pantheon is not in Greece, but in Rome. Keep looking in Athens you may find the Parthenon.
Didn't you see the megaprojects video on the 17th century Venetian supergun that could fire a shell over 1000km? I'm pretty sure it's around here somewhere.
Obviously just a little mistake, he referred to the Parthenon. But if we're being petty, there's of course also a Pantheon in Paris. Apart from that, THE Pantheon _was_ in Greece, on Mount Olympus. And with temples dedicated to Zeus, Dionysos, Athena, and Poseidon, the Acropolis might be termed a pantheon as well, I guess. So Simon wasn't that wrong even.
Except he said PARTHENON. Several times.
@@bomcabedal exactly!
The term Pantheon is Hellenic!
Πάνθεον / pántheon
Παν Θεόν / pan theon
Meaning All Gods, the whole complete family of Gods!
Also, for the History, Romans had different Gods before they were influenced by Hellenes!
When they conquered us adopted many aspects of our culture, including religion.
Then, they just renamed the Hellenic Gods with Latin names and boom 💥 the Roman pantheon
Zeus became Jupiter
Hera became Juno
Athena became Minerva
Poseidon became Neptune
Hades became Pluto
Artemis became Diana
Aphrodite became Venus
Hephaestus became Vulcan
Demeter became Ceres
Hestia is Vesta
Eros became Cupid
Kronos became Saturn
Uranos became Caelus… etc etc etc…
Pantheon or Parthenon, you can find them both in Hellas!
Our country’s name is Hellas (Ελλάς)
Romans named us Graeci for their own reasons…
As an Edo Benin man from Benin city Nigeria, I wish they have never stolen them, there where historical records in those bronzes.
"Get your shit together. Allegedly."
I'll be borrowing this phrase from time to time...
Make more of these videos its fascinating to find out the stories behind the collections!
THING: *exists*
BRITISH NOBLEMAN: Wot's this? I'll be takin' this ya bloody wankah! You're welcoome!
Why is the noble speaking like the common folk?
@@rantymcrant-pants9536 He's drunk, obviously.
Is there a reward if I turn the British Museum in for possession of stolen property?
Not that I’m anti-British, it was the one you named repeatedly. No doubt the Smithsonian has plenty of hot goods.
By that logic Americans stole land and resources from the locals and should totally give them back and go back to Europe too.
Lots of English need to leave too, having come from Saxony and with the Vikings.
@@hkchan1339 They should have done that. But they killed most of the locals so they couldn't actually demand any of that.
Personally, I appreciate the fact that many of these exhibits are currently in a place that makes viewing of the marvels easily accessible to the entire world.
That won't be the case in some circumstances, should they be returned to countries of origin.
I'm not suggesting that England has a "right" to them, I'm facing the fact that returns can be complicated, and as Whistler admitted, can at times lead to the loss of the items from public view entirely.
I abhor the idea of private collectors hording such historical items and in MANY situations in the past, that is what has become of multiple items throughout time.
At least in a museum (wherever it may be located) we know they still exist and can be publicly viewed. This is not always the case everywhere.
Well put. Preserving the culture heritage of the human race is, indeed, a noble undertaking which costs the British government millions of pounds each year to sustain. It is a gift to humanity.
If an individual did this, they'd go to jail for theft. A museum? They act like they are above the law and we let them get away with it. WE must make them be held accountable to the same laws to which we are accountable.
A nation, actually
also the British Museum "cleaned" the Elgin Marbles with ACID and helped them pit and being even more endangered .. and basically look like crap. This was in the 20th century!
Ah, history. Such a flexible thing. Embellished and reinvented at each new retelling, as people become characters and events become scenes, bending to the will of the storyteller.
love this
Gaemelin I love the way you use the words ⭐️
Been to the British museum,Ashmolean, the Louvre, the MET, Heard Museum, (phoenix), and have observed artifacts from various private collections. Much of these colletions if not all would not exist without the careful preservation of people who actually CARE about history...
That's literally the go-to racist response. I mean obviously only us whites are smart enough to do the task. Dumbass be smarter
So Greece doesn’t care about history? Plus, this is not your call to make because these artifacts are not your cultural heritage. These artifacts don’t showcase the beauty of your culture!!!
@@omta7188 no, the ottomans did not care, the Parthenon was partially destroyed, by the the fact it was made into an arsenal. Parts of the Parthenon, very amazing parts were saved by the efforts of a man (elgin) who appreciated the genius of the Greeks. At some point, I've no doubt they will be returned to the museum of athens....
@@garymills562 The man who stole them to decorate his own home didn't give a shit about the culture, significance of the marbles neither did he respect the nation or the people he stole them from. He liked the look of them but he most certainly didn't care about history.
@chinyereugwu9431 BS the ottomans blew up the Parthenon, after it had been used for an arsenal. British, French, German, American archeologists have saved thousands of historical sites all over the world.
"Get your shit together!" a nice thing to hear, especially if you are greek, like I am.☺
You can say that about most museums ,I'm sure absolutely sure that most museums in America have thousands of stolen goods , with murder the least of it...
I live near the Metropolitan museum of art in NYC, and they literally moved whole Egyptian temples stone by stone to the museum. As a kid I thought it was cool. As an adult, not so much
The temple of Dendur was moved to NYC with permission. It was built by Augustus himself as a propaganda piece, and it depicts him as a pharaoh.
Big difference with Egyptian artifacts and structures in nyc. The United States never ruled and looted Egypt. What we have was given to us, including the real Egyptian obelisk in Central Park, which was gifted to us in commemoration of the completion of the Suez canal.
I enjoy museums and have since I was an elementary school student. I had the pleasure of visiting the Imperial War Museum in 1976 and the Duxford airfield museum that same year.
Obviously a ton of this stuff is a no-brainer to return, but I also think it’s sometimes not *as* easy to say as the initial “well, duh” instinct would give you. In some cases it’s not even that obvious who it would be returned to. Unfortunately that small number of legitimately hard cases will probably always be used as a shield to avoid doing anything about most of easy and obvious cases.
The first and last time you will see anything British at the museum is on the sign on the way in which says British museum. Native indigenous history is hidden in the vault and instead, foreign history of the roman Saxon and norman is presented. All Johnny come lately when you consider the millennia that the native Cymru have been here. Stone henge may be managed by English Heritage but the English have nothing to do with the monument other than it standing in an area that was to become England in relatively recent times.
It's probably best to just laser-cut every disputed museum artifact in HALF, and then the 2 different nations' museums can just turn artifacts to the left or to the right, to display their good half. Problem solved!
I've been thinking we need to get back on doing high quality replicas so the originals can go home while the replicas go wherever. By the powers of 3D scanning and printing technology, and the Experimental Archaeologists figuring out how people did things in the past, I summon thee!
@@aste4949 or we could send the replicas back and keep the originals.
We could invite representatives from each nation to some laser cutting room, and propose cutting the object in half in front of them and see if they are happy with that.
Sounds familiar.
Hmmm... I think that solution only works in divorces. Chop everything in half then give the halves to the formerly married couple. =)
@@cfriedel123 it’s a divorce from the empire 👀
I think it should be done on a case by case basis. Artifacts that have a safe place in their country of origin should be sent back. However, artifacts that would be in danger if sent back should stay. Besides, it wouldn't be that difficult to have replicas made for display and send the originals back.
But again...who gets to say what is deemed "safe"? That can be subjective. And what assumptions are being made by saying who or what nation is "capable" of caring for their own cultural artifacts?
I think I should take your stuff and give you it back when I think its a good idea.
How do you feel about this?
I live in Connecticut. I've been to the Peabody Museum, numerous times, at Yale. They have an Egyptian Mummy. I always thought it was sacrilegious for it to be here.
Sounds like a bunch of looters, scavengers and pirates 😂 That's just a few to mention.
I've been to the British Museum. It was the only place I went to, in London. And, I didn't actually see much of it. I remember seeing some of those.
It was in 2006. I was returning to here, Cape Town, South Africa, from a trip to the USA. The flight arrived early in the morning, at Heathrow, London. The connecting flight would only be that evening. As it was a day in London, I thought I'd see the British Museum. But, I was so tired and dazed, unfortunately. And, the underground trains took so long to get there, and back.
The previous year, it was the same story, with the flights, and a day in London. I spent that day sleeping at Heathrow, or trying to. I thought that this time I could fight it, but no use.
Good to see Sideprojects is an “allegedly” channel
Rest of world: can we have our stuff back?
Britain: No! We're still looking at it.
I remember my visit to the British Museum when I was in London. Knew nothing about its history as a facility, but while I was inside admiring the Egyptian display, I remember thinking 'this is a building full of a stolen stuff.' Didn't stop me from finding the entire place amazing and wanting to go back, but it's an undeniable fact.
That Egypt room is awesome. I spent a few hours there several years ago. I don't know how they came to acquire all that but it's not like Egypt is lacking for Egyptian relics. The Cairo museum is also one of the world's best.
No, actually the 'stolen stuff' was all scattered, melted down, and lost to history forever. That's how much the Egyptians cared about their own cultural treasures. What you saw in the British Museum was the rescued stuff.
They wouldn't last in poor countries.
@@jbrisby yea had a guy rescue my computer , tv and such.
@@garethwigglesworth8187 flimsy argument, not all poor countries are the same and not all heritage sites are treated in the same way. You could design a set of criteria for state stability, museum security and preservation regimen before handing goods over but of course there's no will to that end so it won't happen.
The Elgin marbles were taken with the permission of the Ottomans who were in charge of Greece at the time so the British museum has them legally. The case could be made for Greece to be allowed to buy them back though.
British Museum...Hello, British Museum? Can we finally have our stuff back? Pretty please? Since YOU STOLE IT!?
The amount of theft by the Museum system is staggering
Indeed, it should be classified as a warcrime
You could make a whole video on the bodies of some Australian First Nations people’s that were stolen for study during the British colonisation of Australia, however they are now just sitting in storage in the British museum. The remains need to be returned to the nations in which they were taken for re-burial ( or for the nations to decide what they wish to do with the remains) as the removal of the bodies was incredibly culturally insensitive and the nature of the study conducted on the remains was primarily motivated by the British sense of racial superiority and was mostly based on early forms of pseudo-sciences like eugenics and other sociobiological theories that perpetuated the notion of racial superiority
Don’t you watch Sky News from Australia? The British came to civilize them, cause how could they go on without them like they had done for thousands of years before /s. Lol. Yeah it’s a trip how white Australians think that they have forefathers there and like they grew from the ground or something. Lol. Like no, your ancestor was either a convict, warden, marine, or sailor. Maybe even a miner, but not ‘indigenous’. I just did a quite expensive DNA test to see where my ancestors were from and I’m JUST over 51% American Indigenous to the Baja California region(except the US part, like east county San Diego) and I also got French from southern France, Spanish from a town close to Portugal , and German with earlier ties to Western Prussia. I had no idea about that and I just knew my grandpa was German, but I never met him. He moved from Germany to Mexico in the late 1890s with his family who owned an avacado
Ranch, then he met my grandma who was from Oaxaca and was really indigenous but she had green eyes , I don’t know how that happened. But I was stoked when I saw over 50% indigenous so when racists say go back to where you came from, I just reply with I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be, however you’re more than welcome here. 😂.
The ugly fact of the matter is that you're going to feel a sense of superiority if you're arriving in places that are still in the stone age in the 1700s and 1800s. We know of course that their lack of development was just due to their isolation from Eurasia and that it's nothing to do with racial inferiority, but I don't blame people at the time who attended great music halls and lived in grand country houses for coming to false conclusions. Can you imagine sailing to the other side of the world on what can only be described as a floating wooden Palace, and you arrive to a sight that wouldn't look out of place in the neolithic period. You'd be fascinated
@@Joker-yw9hl ok but it's still wrong and the British people of today have modern sensibilities so they should give the bodies back, really easy to do the moral thing that your ancestors didn't
The Great British Empire, liberating people by colonizing and looting since the very beginning.
The fact that the items still aren't returned show that they aren't ashamed of the cruel and brutal past. I even heard that some Brits think they did a favour to their colonies by teaching english and giving religion.
@ibang yermom...a pretty good summary of reality. Wil probably only generate five milliseconds of cognitive dissonance in the righteous ones unfortunately lol....
"Return our plunder?" Laughes in British. "Oh you amusingly naive peasants..."
The Audacity of the British will Forever be top tier 😂😂
Thats literally how all museums work bud.... Too bad they didn't take the Winged Bulls.... if they had, they'd still exist
The British Empire : A collection of other peoples people
If you think about it many of the ancient artifacts in the British museum were most likely built using slaves so they should be returned to the ancestors of the slaves. not to the governments of the country's where they came from who would be the ancestors of the masters.
The UK only made up 1% of the empire. What did you expect?
This title is absolutely glorious.
Do you apply the same standard to American and other museums? Or is your triggered, SJW, PC sensitivity hypocritically focused in the British Museum, championing return of these items...just so long as they go where you want them to go, with no thought as to whether they will just end up looted by Russians, Saudis, Chinese and so on, or blown up by Islamists.
@@owenshebbeare2999 Thats an awful lot of Strawmaning you´re doing there sonny, don´t hurt yourself, kid
XD
All i said is that title is glorious.
It´s funny because it´s true.
@@owenshebbeare2999 We bothknow, someone, is triggered, but it´s not me...
Is it?
now is it?
Small point, but the initial footage of the 'British Museum' is actually the National Portrait Gallery as viewed from Trafalgar Square, there's no balcony on the steps up to the doors of the British Museum
Greetings from Greece!
Thank you for your support!
British museum would be on Megaprojects if pyramids weren't as heavy :)
Technically aren't all museums a collection of other people's stuff? I don't think any museum manufacturers its own items on display. I think that's called a shop.
I don't think logic is welcome here bud, hope you don't get banned for thought crimes against the victim mentality.
@@iampotates 😂.
If u go to a museum in China u will see artifacts from Chinese history...go to museum in India u will see artifacts from Indian history same for Egypt, Ethiopia, Sudan .... Go to British museum u see items stolen from other people's history
@@NubiansNapata I've been to a museum in India and they had many hundreds of artifacts from around the world. Including British artifacts. So that's BS 😂. And every one on this earth can trace there history back to the rift valley in Ethiopia. Maybe there would be less racism in the world if we stopped grouping ourselves into make believe groups. the lines between countries are imaginary and we are all part of the human race.
@@mooselord2838 like what?
I'm Native American, with that said, I don't know how people justify keeping artifacts and property gained by their ancestor's horse trading. I also understand the shear pitfall that could result if heritage property started to get returned to the proper people. Everyone with even the shakiest claim to a valuable item would be crawling out of the woodwork.
If you’re native then you should understand NAGPRA and the other various rules and regulations governing the return of artifacts and remains, etc. Claims are not “ shaky”. There is a protocol. If you’re an MLD you’re involved in the process.
@@c.m.cordero1772 that's the point that I apparently have failed to make, if you don't have a method of regulation and well defined claim limits, people are going to people and make paper thin connections to property. Clogging up the system and delaying the legit cases.
Why does the National Gallery appear at 0:40 - has it become part of the British Museum since I last checked? (mind you, I haven't checked lately - maybe it has!)
Fantastic and informative! I love how you brought up the ethical issues! Keep up the great work!
As an American, I strongly agree with the British Museum maintaining these artifacts. The United Kingdom is under a stronger governance than any of the other countries, and therefore the security and preservation of these artifacts is guaranteed further by holding them in the UK, rather than corrupt countries like Greece.
HAHAHHAAH
"Liberating the population from a reign of terror". A timeless strategy. Idea for a Megaproject episode: the Western propaganda machine for manufacturing consent to invade anyone we don't like.
Let's not forget "they have shit we want"
Like WW2
Great podcast called, "stuff the British stole," with more details of these and other stories too. This is fascinating.
The British Museum: Don't ask how we got all of this.
Right... I had to check it out but that definitely is the National Gallery, and not the Museum. The interiors are of the museum so you did get that correct..... as well as " give the things back."
Would be good to make really good copies and then hand over the originals. In sufficient time the debate will become which is the original ;-)
37 seconds in, and we have a problem.
I tought the same thing!
I loved visiting the British Museum, wished I could be there for more than one visit.
Giving back (at least) the most questionable items would create room for the thousands of other items so many museums have in storage. Win Win!
Then there is the obelisk of Luxor, a "gift" from the Viceroy of Egypt to France. However, such objects do not belong to any king or ruler so it is not theirs to give. This time, the instigator was Champollion, who as key in deciphering the hieroglyphs. By the way, the fully erect baboons at the base of the obelisk were removed and are in the Louvre museum.
Stolen? No.
Victorious trophies of a successful empire? Yes.
We were not the first but will probably be the last great empire.
on behalf of Greece thanks for the very clear explanation of the issue re the Elgin marbles.. Nice video in general, congrats!
I mean, he left out a fuckton of context to paint the Greeks in a better light...
To quote another comment: "With the Elgin Marbles isn't it odd that they were legally acquired but the Greek authorities say they were stolen because other things were.... 🤔 How does the fact that other things were taken illegally make it so the marbles were? Not saying they shouldn't go back but wondering where the logic is to the argument Greece is making. Why not say yhea they were acquired legally but now we'd like them back can we find a way to make that happen."
@@GoldenSunAlex I mean, he didn't..
"There is no official document testifying the Parthenon sculptures were lawfully taken to the British Museum, researchers say. So far the British Museum had been claiming that the marbles were taken to the UK with the Sultan’s permission, but now this is challenged as no document providing proof of this is available.
The British Museum claims that when Elgin removed the sculptures from the Parthenon he had permission from the Sultan. The document, however, testifying this is not preserved. The one available in the museum’s archives today is a friendly letter from Kaimakam Pasha, authorizing Elgin to take casts of the sculptures; in fact it is a later translation into Italian of the letter. Eleni Korka, Honorary General Director of Antiquities, has stated that the letter, not by the Sultan himself but by Kaimakam Pasha, who was replacing the Grand Vizier and was at the time in Constantinople, cannot be considered an official Ottoman document.
Another researcher, Sarian Panahi from Iran, who can read Ottoman Turkish - one of the few historians nowadays capable of doing so - has also stated that there is no firman, namely official document deriving from the Sultan- for the transfer of the sculptures, against the museum’s claim that other documents prove the lawful removal of the marbles. Two Turkish researchers, Zeynep Aygen and Orhan Sakin, also confirmed this, in an interview at the Acropolis Museum, where they presented a study of official documents from the Ottoman Empire related to Lord Elgin. They highlighted the fact that since all firmans and their content were written in a special book, this firman that the British argue existed should also have been included there. "
So where exactly are you basing your claim that they were legally acquired?
Also what's your source that " greek authorities say they were stolen because other things were"?