Red Light Cameras Are Evil! - Lehto's Law Ep. 5.42
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- Опубліковано 24 гру 2018
- People often ask my opinion on Red Light cameras - the ones that ticket you by mail with virtually no human intervention. And pretty much are nothing more than revenue generators for the cities that use them. Here is the link to McLeod's article: www.thepublicdiscourse.com/20...
www.lehtoslaw.com - Авто та транспорт
About 8 years ago I read a very detailed article from someone who studied this in-depth. They found that municipalities would shorten the length of the yellow light in order to increase their tickets for red light violations. The shortened yellows were dangerously short and INCREASED accidents.
My uncle fought and won one of these in FL because he proved the yellow light duration was set below the state's minimum allowed duration for the speed limit on that road. The city had in fact violated the state law in order to increase revenue from the camera system.
And that's my biggest issue for these things. They are billed as SAFETY devices but are nothing more than revenue generators pure and simple. Some will argue they do lower the number of collisions inside the crosswalk box and often this is true. However they greatly increase the number of rear-end accidents caused by people such as myself that stop on the first hint of yellow unless the tires will screech when there is a camera system present. If they TRULY wanted safety they would LENGTHEN the yellow lights and overlap the red lights just a bit. Mind you I'm good with an officer sitting there and catching violators and I'm good with a nice fat fine and whatever comes with that. But you need to make it safe to clear the intersection through a yellow and safe to stop by not having to bend the brake pedal to assure you're not getting a ticket.
And the cost to increase the yellow and overlap the red?? Approaching ZERO to the municipality AND to the community. Why is this not the FIRST thing we do??
Some traffic lights are too bright, and need dimmer bulbs or shielded somehow. Pennsylvania highways 98 and 6N, you can see the traffic light for a minimum of 2 miles, up to 5, downhill all 4 directions. They have serious crashes regularly.
On highway 6 at Bryan, Ohio, late one night, I could see the red light 7 miles out headed west, with nothing to help judge the distance to the light once you get close.
The worst thing about red light cameras is that they are UNSAFE! When they were introduced in Houston, drivers were so paranoid about getting a ticket that they would slam on their brakes when they should've gone through the yellow light. The result is that heavier vehicles would rear end them. Rear end collisions increased greatly. Proponents of red light cameras claim that they're making traffic 'safer.' It's really just a money grab.
I love your videos. Keep up the good work.
Just to play devil's advocate, what if a police officer was parked by the intersection. Wouldn't people slam on their brakes the same way? One could argue that people who legitimately ran a red light, and were given a ticket that clearly shows their face, and their license plate, are not the problem.
Even if that argument is accepted, there are other problems. Some people are wrongly given tickets for someone else driving their car through a red light. Sometimes they try and coerce you into telling them who was driving , threatening that you will be charged with the infraction if you don't tell them. (You don't have to tell them in most (perhaps all?) states. At least here in California, they are required to prove it was you. Sometimes the cop doesn't even look at the pictures the company sends them. And even if they DO send the ticket to the right driver and have a clear shot of the plate, they often don't have a clear enough picture of the driver to prove who it was to the legal standards required. Yet it's so difficult to fight many people just go ahead and pay.
In my (pretty much worthless, as I'm neither a lawyer judge or politician) opinion, if they have a clear picture of you, and your car and your license plate, in a series of time stamped photos, that plainly show you crossing the intersection on the red light, and the officer signing the ticket actually looks at the pictures and honestly assess if they are sufficient to identify you and you have no valid excuse, then you deserve the ticket and it doesn't matter if the cop was there in the car or saw you ion the camera. You deserve the ticket. A valid excuse might be for example, the intersection is blocked and a police officer pulls up behind you and orders you to move out of the way so you carefully enter the intersection and go around the corner and stop so he can get through. A valid excuse is not "I thought there was no one watching and I could get away with it. How dare you catch me with a machine!" That's not unfair. It's just unlucky.
Now, if the ticket is unfair. If the evidence is insufficient to convict you for whatever reason. Yet they still try to ram it through and make you pay. That's a problem. Even if you actually ran the light. Because there are rules and laws and they should be followed.
Eight or nine years ago in the city of Auburn Washington my daughter got a red light ticket. She had heard a rumor about a judge there and decided to give it a try. She fought the tickets. She showed up in court and there she was with a bunch of other people who have gotten nailed by the same camera. One by one each person got up and the judge asked them where you driving the car at the time the taken? One by one, each person said no. And one by one each time the judge said case dismissed.
I won on my red light ticket luckily because they violated due process by giving me a hearing in three days which they must give you at least five days I think it's been awhile might be 7. But everyone in Washington can simply perjure themselves to get out of it as they can't take pictures of your face perjury is serious I'm not suggesting it but it puts you in a weird place Honor system? Leto brings up deficiencies with such laws but doesn't deal with legal reasons that one might legally run a red light which an officer present would be aware of and can account for.
Add to the fact the companies running the camera systems change the timing on the yellow light to catch more people! Georgia just went through that battle and lost.
Read about some youngsters in the U.K. who borrowed, (stole), the plates off a speed camera van, attached them to their car, then drove past the van at 90 mph. The van took a picture of the plates and a ticket was mailed to the city. They later replaced the plates on the van.
We have some people doing that kind of thing in Russia. Though, they just print the plates on paper and use vehicles similar to ones supervising speed cameras.
IMHO - serves them right, cause those camera guys (they work on highways, cities have their own cameras) are private companies and they are well-known for sometimes setting the cameras incorrectly on purpose to give wrong readings and issue more fines.
It is my understanding that the small village of New Miami in Ohio raked in about 3 million dollars with its (speed?) camera program. They got sued and the program was ruled unconstitutional and the village is now on the hook to repay that $3M, leaving it bankrupt. Played with fire, got burned.
I've been on the receiving end in Elk Grove California. Difference is, you get photographs in the mail and a link to go online and watch videos of you blowing the red light in high definition from multiple angles. They blur out the faces of all of your passengers but the driver is very very clearly visible in both the photos and video - it was clear that one of the cameras was angled specifically to identify the driver. In my town they compared that to the DL photo of the registered owner and issue the citation to the driver. In all the ticket cost a bit over $600.
Yes, and I think that is how they do it throughout the state because there were legal challenges in the past when some locations only captured the license plate. BTW, if people are wearing a mask and happen to have their sun visor down the chances of actually receiving a citation drops to close to zero.
Wear a mask shades and a cowboy hat
Why I hate them - I drive much more hesitantly and find myself jamming on the brakes more often - even traveling at the speed limit - also the cameras are usually rigged to screw the drivers - there's a lot of fraud in those cameras and the timing.
Another home run, Lehto! Municipal courts are a mega pain in the ass. I had a tenant parking their car in the alley adjacent to the property so they fined me $124 because of it. I fought it with all I could, wasted 2 afternoons of my life. The court brought in 2 witnesses, had the property surveyed, and some beautiful diagrams showing someone else's car parked with 2 wheels on my lot. I didn't win and I really don't think the city won either after spending all that effort for $124 dollars. Especially when the ticket was supposed to be $30, yet they just put all these processing and court costs on to it initially when they send it. I am obviously frustrated, but satisfied I got my day in court and hopefully spent more of the cities money than I paid to them.
I got a red light camera ticket in Fife Washington. They actually sent me a video of the alleged infraction.
You can clearly see that I come to a complete stop that lasts about 1/2 second and then take a right turn. This happened at about 8am on a Saturday and I was the only car there).
I looked up and printed the statute I was accused of breaking and went to court.
The judge watched the video and asked what my defense was.
I told him that I had stopped and the law does not stipulate how long I have to be stopped.
He then told me that he will dismiss the ticket but I am supposed to stop before the line and I did not.
I waved my finger at him and said "No, No, the RCW states that the driver is required to stop AT the line. The meaning of the word AT is not BEFORE but ON."
He actually spun around in his chair to check the law.
Yes, I won but it cost me 4 hours of work. Next time this happens I will sue the redlight camera company in small claims for lost wages and other expenses associated with going to fight their bogus ticket.
The city I live in removed them after losing a 2 million dollar lawsuit . The company [not controlled by the city] shortened the yellow light to get more revenue.
That's so dirty and the worst thing about that is it's extremely unsafe. I can only imagine the number of accidents shortened yellow lights can cause; all the whiplash cases as lead cars slam on their brakes to avoid running a red only to get slammed into from behind by a car that never intended to stop. Short yellow lights are very dangerous.
I got a ticket by one such camera, in Milbrae, California and it took my picture as well as my license plate. I went to an arraignment and the judge knocked off $100 from the fine. It was still over $500. A friend of mine got ticketed in the same county and decided to fight it. I went with him to an arraignment where he plead not guilty and then returned for the hearing. Before the hearing, a cop who was going to testify, came up and told us that they had had timing accuracy trouble with that camera and that he would tell the judge he was going to drop the charges. That's exactly what they did and my friend didn't have to pay. All the other victims of this inaccurate camera, who couldn't get off from work to drive down to the county seat twice to go through the process, presumably just paid their $600 fines.
Steve, the police officer , He needs to listen to what he is reading when he reads the Miranda right's to someone. Arizona has had red light cameras for a long time and I wish some other cities in Alabama had red light cameras. Steve, is it not the responsibility of the owner of the car to know who drives the car? I'm going to read the article that Mr. McCloud wrote. Thanks!
remember Dixie and MollyAnn
I once got a parking ticket for a green Mercedes with the same numberplates as my white Toyota. I mailed them a kind letter inviting them to go ahead and arrest me as I need the deformation claim's money to retire but funnily never heard from them again?
BUT
The best one though was the speeding ticket I got for a car that had been stolen a week prior to the "speeding crime" I phoned the contact number and explained to them . Two weeks later I got a summons to appear. By luck I knew Senior council that I fixed a phone problem for and I asked him to help me to write them an e-mail. I included a copy of my e-mail to the police asking them to investigate possible fraud at the traffic department and a digital copy of my phone conversation with them and e-mail to the local newspaper inviting them to attend my arrest and court appearance,
Once more never heard from them again
Conclusion... They are bigger chancers than the "criminals" they try to catch
Several years ago red light cameras were installed at some busy intersections in Boulder, Colorado. There were signs that informed drivers that the cameras were of there. The result was that the number rear-end accidents increased dramatically. Drivers would approach the intersections doing the speed limit and if the light changed from green to red, they would slam on the brakes. This lead to numerous rear-end collisions. I don’t have the newspaper stories about this but as I recall it was in the local newspaper-The Boulder Camera.
I typed green to red and I should have typed green to amber.
The only condition that I would find a red light camera acceptable is if they were used with countdown timer displays. To enhance safety in Thailand at intersections they have countdown timer displays. They show the time left in seconds until the next change in state of the traffic light. This has two major benefits. First, if the light is green and you can see that it will turn red in a few seconds and you are half of a mile away, you already will begin to slow down because you know that you'll never make the light. This enhances safety. But these timers also countdown to the next green light. Imagine a timer counting down from 90 seconds. Traffic closest to and stopped at the red light tend to stay awake and alert and ready to go. If you are checking your phone and there is 60 seconds still on the timer you can feel comfortable doing that. The Thai don't have red light cameras to my knowledge, but there are better ways, like countdown timers at intersections, to enhance safety. If a red light camera is used in conjunction with countdown timers, someone blowing through the intersection against a red light clearly deserves a ticket.
I received one of these 20 yrs ago in San Diego. Back then they only took pics from the front, which clearly shows who is driving unless you hide behind the visor. I hit the intersection just after the light turned yellow, but was surprised to see the flash when I crossed the intersection and again when I was 1/2 way into the left turn then I saw the light turn red. The ticket told me the light was red for 0.6 seconds before I crossed the line, which I know was wrong. I found so many engineering defects in the system's design as well as getting city records that the entire camera system was replaced 3 times in 8 weeks with my ticket in the middle of that time frame. In traffic court, I dumbfounded the police officer testifying against me then had the Judge Pro Tem testify against me and then say he believes the light could have been yellow, but found me guilty anyway. What happened to unbiased and impartial as well as reasonable doubt? He testified against me and had reasonable doubt so it should have been dismissed. I won on appeal, but only because the audio recordings were too poor for the city attorney to document what happened in traffic court. I also think he didn't want me exercising discovery in a lawsuit to find all camera records then having all tickets refunded based on defective equipment. Later the city was found to have shortened yellow light times to get more infractions/revenue and other camera systems were found to be defective. The systems were eventually removed. Nothing more than a revenue generating scheme. If dash cameras were readily available back then and I had one it would have been an easy case to win if not sue both the service company and the city for insurance increases, traffic school costs, and illegal violation's time wasted by the victims.
How could you morons vote for these Democrats when you get screwed at every turn.
You are right. Here in New York the car in essence gets the ticket. They just want to money. There are no points against you on your license.
We know the intersections by now. There has been an increase of rear end crashes because of people stopping on yellow for fear of ticking.
Thanks for your work.
I am a lifelong Arizona resident and live in Tucson, but for 20 years I lived in central Phoenix. Arizona back in the early 2000's, adopted the traffic cameras at red lights and on the freeway system as well. The case that killed the cameras in Arizona were due to a guy/person/meatbag of some kind) that would drive the vehicle at high speed down the freeway (SR 51) wearing a different mask every single day - and got tickets in the mail every single day as well. Since the person driving the vehicle could NOT be identified, the tickets were ALL tossed out. Also, the courts decided that the 'citation' could not just be sent to you in the mail, but would require hand delivery by an actual police officer in order to make the 'citation' legally binding. *BOOM* All of the traffic cameras were covered in burlap bags until the company that put them in could remove all of them. It's a beautiful thing ! Thanks for your videos Steve, they are informative and utterly entertaining to me !
Same thing at toll booths. I bought an rv trailer. 9 months later I got a ticket for not paying the fine which was a first time notice. The ticket was given 1 month before I owned the rv in a State of Georgia I never went. I called the number on the info and they said according to KY u are the owner but I told them I did not own when the toll was issued. They said to send proof so I immediately sent my registration and the a copy of the registration of person who owned it before me. Now I have been sent to a collection agency. I called and sent another copy to them because they claim they had no record of me calling or sending proof to them. Now I have received another letter from the collection agency. I am being harassed and it might adversely affect my credit. This needs to be stopped. I should be able to sue for harassment , time and stress. I won't pay as I do not owe.
I happen to hail from the great city of Phoenix, Arizona - home of the the big "Screw" aka "Red Light Photo Enforcement. Like many I was surprise to receive a notice in the mail which advised I was guilty of running a red light and thus subject to various fines. The actual notice itself was extremely informative. The notice included a picture of my rear license plate as it traveled through the red light as well a picture of the driver. The only issue I had was; I wasn't the driver nor was I even present in the vehicle. What's also kind of cool is they send you a link so you can see the actual video of the offense in addition to still pic's. Kind of cool as the videos shows not only the infraction but the speed at which the offense took place. (I did own the vehicle but I own many vehicles) I promptly responded back via snail mail I wasn't the driver - it wasn't me. Interestingly enough the initial noticed advised if you are not the driver then please advise who was - good luck on that one. My response was I'm not in a position to advise on who the driver was. Time goes by and then I new notice was sent out to my wife.. lol. It was my wife. Guilty as charged - she went to a driving class while the great state in the aforementioned collect approximately $250 - no points to the wife's license.
Steve, I don't know if you read new comments on old videos, but I will tell everyone what happened to me. Years ago, in Stockton, CA, I received two red light tickets back to back. These were new systems that had just been installed in some of the intersections in town. When I received the notices, they both had a copy of the ticket and pictures of me and my car, complete with license plate. The pictures were taken from the front and had surprising clarity. Anyone could definitely identify me in the pictures. So, I decided to search the internet to see if there was a way to beat these kinds of tickets. I found a site that mapped out exactly what to do. I printed a one page questionnaire that I was to use in traffic court in order to question the officer.
When I went to court, the officer got on the stand and I went down the list of questions. He answered them quickly until I got to the question of "Who pulled the picture from the camera?" He then said that it was the private company that pulls the pictures and sends them to the police department. I then asked if the employee of the private company was a sworn peace officer. He stated that he or she was not. I then asked the judge to dismiss due to the broken chain of evidence of the photo. The judge asked the officer if a civilian pulled the photo and the officer stated yes. The judge dismissed both tickets. Within a year, all red light cameras were removed or disabled in that city.
@David A. O'Connor - can you share where you found the one page questionnaire you printed? Thank you.
@@royellis8265 I'm sorry, it's been way too many years. I know I searched "beat a red light ticket" in Google.
Cool! Are you a lawyer or have legal background? That was well done!
@@jtandme-ot9cl No, I just have good Google skills. Lol
There have been a number of scandals with these cameras in the state I live in.
1) A camera in a busy suburb issued 10K tickets for about $1M in the first three months. Almost all were for a right turn violation because it was not clear where to stop.
2) The stop lights at certain intersections were found to have inconsistent yellow timing. The number of citations would spike for a short period, then go back to normal, then spike again depending on the length of the yellow.
3) The sh!thole progressive city settled for nearly $39M in refunds and forgiveness for illegally issued tickets.
4) Executives from the red light company and at least one city employee were convicted of bribery for steering the contract to that company.
I live in Houston. One day I received notice (with photo attached) that I had run a red light in Jersey Village Texas which is a mall residential municipality on the outskirts of Houston.
I did not get a "ticket" from Jersey Village nor did they allow me to pay the "fine" at their courthouse as there was no record of my alleged offense.
I learned through this ordeal that in the state of Texas running a red light is a misdemeanor and to be cited for any misdemeanor in Texas a certified Texas peace officer must personally witness the offense.
A police officer did not personally witness the offense so I didn't get a ticket.
What I got was a civil suit from a law firm in Ohio that would settle with me for $75.00.
Should I choose to contest the matter I was welcome to do so by appearing in a civil court IN OHIO.
I settled by sending a money order to the vultures in Ohio.
Jersey Village has since removed the cameras. A study here found that the incidents of rear end collisions skyrocketed in the presents of red light cameras.
The Texas legislature outlawed new red-light cameras recently, but grandfathered in existing cameras until the contracts expired. My understanding is that they are always recording, at least the ones belonging to the company that placed them in Amarillo, so if there is no other traffic around I always give the cameras a one-finger salute.
They actually only grandfathered then in for cities that had contracts that wouldn't have automatically been voided by a change in state law (via a provision in the contract). They also have removed all enforcement mechanisms so the tickets in the remaining cities are toothless.
In Delaware these take 3 or 4 pictures at the same time, 1 of the drivers face, 1of the car and intersection so that the light is included, and 1 of a close-up of the plate. It would be difficult at best to get out of one of these tickets in Delaware. But it's better than getting pulled over for 30 minutes and possibly shot if you get the wrong cop.
I drive a tractor trailer. I have run red lights because so many of them have such a short delay that if I brake on yellow, even while doing the speed limit, I'm going to end up in the middle of the intersection anyway with my cargo dumped and damaged and my brakes smoking. Maybe I'll be sideways in the intersection, if I'm in an area with a 45mph+ speed limit. I pull the air horn and roll. I love the places with the flashing light that activates when you'll have to stop when doing the speed limit. I have NEVER rolled through one of those! I want to drive safe and legal. This frustrates me.
I feel sorry for THE UPS and FedEx drivers too ;)
The more i watch your teachings the more i am fully convinced that the whole system is corrupt.
All the things I was taught about the USSR as a child seem to be happening in America. Who wouldn't want America first? How could Biden get 10,000,000 more votes than Obama? Why would the voting machines in the swing States be turned off the moment Florida was called for Trump, and when they were turned back on the Biden somehow picked up 8,000,000 votes with no down vote ballets? I guess the same way two planes took down three high-rise office building on 9-11. How does the saying go? Only in America.
Try being a professional gambler and seeing the third base coach run into the baseline to tackle the runner going into home when there wasn't even a play at the plate. Not once but twice on consecutive batters. That game cost me a 100 to 1 parlay. That was in 1993 The Toronto Blur Jays at the Angles. If you can't put your trust in baseball what else is left?
I did not have the red light camera experience but I did get a bill for using a toll road that used cameras to send out the bills. It was here in NC and the plate number was the number for a car I own in NC but the picture with the bill clearly showed it was the same number but a Texas plate (not NC). The process of finding an actual person to correct the error took a while but it was finally corrected. I do not think cameras should be used unless those cameras can accurately determine not only the plate number but also the state that issued the plate and I agree that if it is for a traffic violation, there should be some kind of picture of the driver.
I received one from the NY Thruway here in TN. I phoned the 800 # and was told I had to pay regardless or I would be arrested and the car impounded! The lady was flummoxed when I asked what happens if I never drive that vehicle in NY again? Car sold, problem solved, for me!
My experience with these cameras (New Orleans, Louisiana and a couple of the nearby incorporated cities in the suburbs) is that they take two photos of the car...one of the front as you approach, and one of the back. The front shot captures a picture of the driver, and the back shot gets the license plate. In every one of these that I've received, the picture of the driver has been very clear (I was not the driver in any of these cases because I pay attention to the state-mandated signs that say "SPEED CAMERA AHEAD" and be sure that I"m going a reasonable speed). There is some provision for claiming you weren't the driver and notifying the municipality of who the driver was. In my case, I just gave the ticket to the offending employee and told him he needed to pay it and give me some proof that it was paid
In the City of Gretna, they have "mobile" speed cameras, which are attached to a jeep. They move them from place to place, but there are about 6 of them at any given time in the 4 sq. mi. municipality, and they use about a dozen different locations that they place them. Everybody in the city, and the surrounding area knows where these locations are. The biggest problem is that they cause traffic to slow down, often to 25 in a 35 MPH zone because people don't want to get tickets (you have to be going 43 in a 35 to trigger the camera). My biggest question is how "profitable" these cameras can be. They can't possibly be giving out very many tickets if everyone knows where they are. I can't remember the last time I saw one flash in the distance as I was approaching because everyone slows to a crawl.
As far as Red Light Cameras, the City of New Orleans has them, and it's a whole different ballgame over there. Park near one of those intersections and watch as they flash 2 or 3 times for every cycle of the light. The thing in New Orleans is that people just don't pay the fine. There was an 8 or 9-digit amount of unpaid fines recently published in the newspaper. Jefferson Parish (suburb of New Orleans) had them for a short while, but someone found out that some elected officials had a stake in the company that was operating them...lawsuits were filed, and the Parish ended up outlawing them completely and issuing refunds.
Here where I live, the flash goes off even when cars are stopped at the intersection. This is for surveillance purposes only. Don't be fooled into thinking they are there to protect us from speeders.
Another issue: cities claim the cameras are placed only at the most deadly intersections, but studies have shown these intersections often have abnormally short yellow lights. Engineers know the first thing you do at a problematic location is to extend the yellow light phase.
Somehow I knew ATS would come up in this video. They are the most unethical scumbags I have ever dealt with. They pitch red light cameras to cities with the guarantee of revenue at no cost to them. Then they set up the cameras based on what will generate the most revenue, not based on safety. For example, a “no right turn on red” instead of a high speed intersection.
Most of these cities a Democrat controlled. How do they get elected? Either the GOP have the worst public image or the elections are rigged. I think both. I'm sure the FBI will clear things up as soon as they finish with the JFK investigation.
I knew a young man who received a red light camera fine.
On that weekend of the offence he was interstate (in his car) he could not have driven through that light on that day. He asked for and received the photo and was
astounded to see his car.
Long story short, armed with the hotel receipt (that had his car number on it) and his girlfriend he went to court. The judge did not accept his evidence and was
about to say, pay the fine when the young man noticed something. (Not true personal details as I don't have his permission to publish)
His vehicle was a white Ford Escort van rego number CB1963. The vehicle in the photo was the same model, year and colour and even after market wheels.
Its number was CBI963 . Upon seeing this the judge dismissed the offence.
(For those who did not pick the difference, the third character on his plate was a number 1 where as the other vehicles is an I, as in the letter I)
A few years ago there was a series of fines issued from Queensland Australia where a small white truck with plates (Again as I don't have permission so will make
up the details) lets say CBI963 No one knows how but a car in NSW (New South Wales) was issued with the same number.
When the truck ran toll roads and red lights the car owner was getting the fines. It took a long time for this one to be sorted out and yet it should never have
happened as a plate numbers once issued was not meant to be issued interstate.
A third incident in NSW saw a traffic light always catching bus drivers.
It turns out that because of the design of the road, a bus entering the intersection had to do so at walking speed yet he could not complete the turn before the
lights changed and then the camera would catch them.
Last was a tractor that a speed camera caught doing 100kph in an 80kph zone despite the fact that the vehicle physically cant achieve that speed and even
if you did manage it, you could not hold on because it would be bouncing all over the road.
Theses incidents are exactly why cameras are unfair. They put it on the owner of the vehicle to prove he was not at fault yet he has little if any experience or
access to data to be able to mount a defence. I wonder how many similar to the above have been processed because the owner did not know how to prove he is
innocent
In regard to RED LIGHT CAMERAS- an aspect which almost everyone disregards is--THE CAR MUST GO THROUGH A RED LIGHT TO GET THE PICTURE TAKEN. The driver must first break a law in order to have everything else follow. Where I live in Florida, we had a camera at an intersection where drivers commonly disregarded the right on red after full stop, and blew through red lights as if they weren't there. Naturally, accidents occured. Cameras were put up, and the vast majority of people no longer blew through the red light. A furor erupted about who derived the most revenue from the fines. Eventually, the cameras were removed, and the old tradition of blowing through the red light and having accidents returned. People were delighted and bloodshed returned. Who got the money isn't really that important in the larger scheme of things. Avoiding injury and death should supercede who makes the money from the fines. REMEMBER you must first break the law to have this evil device steal your financial soul. I think that priorities are somewhat out of order. PS With regard to Uncle Stinky's observation, rear end accidents because of the front car slamming on the brakes at the last minute are worthy of tickets for both parties. Let the hateful responses begin.
The problem with red light cameras and speed cameras is that the companies that run them as well as the governments having jurisdiction have a perverse incentive to rig them to catch law abiding motorists by shortening yellow lights, suddenly dropping speed limits just before speed cameras, or setting speed limits to unreasonably low speeds. They are not there to improve safety, they are there to generate revenue.
When I lived in Vancouver BC there was not one speed limit over 30mph in the whole town.
This was sometime ago but , in California, the camera takes the picture from the front. The ticket went to the home of a guy who was tagged. His wife opened the ticket and was surprised to see a women in the passenger seat of the van her husband was driving. This caused a few problems and a lawsuit... Yes. Pictures after the lawsuit had the passenger potion blurred out so you could not see who was in the passenger seat.
I've gotten a couple of these in Washington State, and yes, it truly is B.S.
You get caught behind a truck or motorhome, and the light changes without you seeing it....until it's too late.
I also felt that the yellow light was too short, but couldn't be sure, or prove it.
In each case, I disputed the ticket, and was asked why I was disputing it.
I simply told them that "more than one person has access to this vehicle".
I was asked "so, you're saying that it wasn't you"?
Me: "Yup".
"If it wasn't you, then who was it?"
Me. "I don't know, and don't care"..
"Besides, I wasn't in the area at the time....I was out of town....Again, more than one person has access to the vehicle."
I still remember the clerk in Fife, Washington.
She was an attractive younger black lady, and she looked at me like I was a liar.
However, in each case, it was dismissed.
I cannot believe this was never successfully fought, and ruled unconstitutional.
These are huge in the Phoenix Metro Area. The cameras also take a photo of the driver. Welcome to the Home of the Brave and Land of the Free. Some of these cameras have been shot down. Booo! Hoooo!
The City of San Diego had them all removed several years ago, but not because of the reasons you mentioned. We got rid of them because the fines were split between the contractors and the state. The city doesn't get a cut.
In Washington State red light cameras are legal and are set up and functioning in some but not all cities. (Depending on how greedy the city is I guess). The City of Lakewood, in Pierce County, Washington has taken this one step further. On the backside of a traffic light facing oncoming traffic, there is a small, intense blue light that comes on when the light changes to red. The blue lights - sometimes called “rat lights” or “tattletale lights” - are there to help police catch red-light runners. They turn on simultaneously with the red light. That way, cops who aren’t in a position to see the red light can tell when a driver has entered the intersection after the light turns.
Aurora, CO uses these blue lights.
I called and they told me in Knoxville TN that it was civil not criminal and then I asked if I didn't show then there would be no warrant.? They confirmed that no action would be taken except to fine me. I then asked so I would get a warrant for arrest if I didn't pay? And they said No- its civil.. I said" oh so it will become a lien against my credit as a collection?" They said No - they can't do that. I laughed and said, " so...no issue if civil and no arrest or judgment against my credit" - i ain't paying ever!
same thing happened to me, but when I went to renew my yearly registration they would not issue sticker until I paid the fine. They eventually get what they want. Texas btw.
In Chicago they sieze all vehicles registered to you and suspend your drivers license if you don't pay.
I've always opposed them since when introduced in Tampa the biggest justification for them was "the amount of revenue" they would bring in. That's all the Police Chief and city council people talked about. I do not believe that we should have or enforce laws based on how much the government can make off that.
I have gone so far as to reach the conclusion that government should receive *no* revenue for the breaking of a law. Any fines should go to the victims of the crime directly, or if that isn't possible (say, for parking tickets, or an individual killed in an accident with no next of kin), then at least to victims of crimes related to the crime in question.
Adding a second to the yellow does more good than cameras with shortened yellow lights
We had this evil ticket a few weeks ago. My husband got a ticket in the mail from Florida (we live in Wyoming). Neither of us have ever been to Florida. The ticket was assigned to my husband's car because they read the plate incorrectly. In Wyoming our plates have a county number then the bucking bronco then the rest of the plate number. All numbers are are part of our "plate" number. But they only read the number after the bucking bronco when deciding the car belonged to my husband. It took 3 weeks of faxing proof of our plates/vehicle back and forth to get the problem ticket resolved. But first we had to call the police department in Florida to make sure this wasn't a SCAM. I mean there are so many entities and addresses on the paper it just seems fishy.
It's different in my home province, there are always multiple pictures of the vehicle in question. ( They actually are starting videoing now) Multiple photos showing the vehicle behind the stop line with the Red light being displayed first then progressing into the intersection while red.
You receive these pictures in the mail along with the letter. Not sure but they used to include a front picture of the car as well.
The evidence is truely reveiwed by a police officer to decide whether it's worth sending, were there circumstances why it happened, road was icy, clearing a path for emergency vehicles...
That isn't the case often in other provinces.
They have red light cameras in Beaverton, Oregon. I stopped shopping or doing business there. If I'm in an area that has red light cameras and a light turns amber, I lock up the brakes. I'd rather get hit than get a ticket.
Aside: It was used in an episode of Columbo (Peter Falk).
With a twist.
3 years ago I got an email from my company that I ran a red light in a company vehicle on a date and time about a week ago (then) in Roanoke, TX. Why did they email and not call me? Because when I got the email (and supposed citation both) I was about 12,000 miles away in the Philippines. So I waited until business hours and called my company to confirm all details. I asked when and where do they show my vehicle stopped. And when did I go on vacation overseas. Hmmmm???
Within a few months of that latest traffic cam sham scam for our company the city had to refund a lot of money to all the people it scammed and they took down all the cameras versus Federal intervention. My company was paying the bogus scam tickets until then. They were shooting daylight plate numbers and putting them into altered violation pictures of different times. My ticket was supposedly at 0226 AM but it was broad daylight in the picture.
I have a bumper stickers that says "Ban red-light cameras"...when I get tickets they will actually blur out my bumper stickers. Low self esteem on their part.
Next up, we outsource fire protection services and base their pay on the number of fires they put out. What could go wrong?
find out the license plate number and car that the mayor of the city drives. Then mske a fake duplicate license plate and rent that same car. Drive it through few of those red light camera intersections, taking a rolling right on red. Maybe get a few very good friends to assist by being scouts so that you don't get busted by a real cop while doing this.
Let's see if the cameras remain.
now that's funny, better yet do that to his teenage son
I live in DFW and I got one about 6 months ago. The good thing about living in Tarrant county is our tax assessor said he won’t impose any of the penalties like blocking registration. The poor folks in Dallas county aren’t so lucky. Merry Christmas Mr.Letho!!
They also cause accidents, when someone locks up the brakes, and either skids into the intersection, or gets tagged by the person behind them. Not only do we have these things here (Chicago), but our parking meters have been replaced by a really inconvenient system run by a private corporation, and will be so for the next 70 or so years, thanks to a mayor who sold those rights for $75 million. Needless to say, the parking fees are insane. Maybe this would be a good subject for a video.
In Colorado, they have the cameras (red light, and speed). They mail you a ticket, but it has no force of law unless it's handed to you by a witnessing member of law enforcement or officer of the court. So you can ignore it, though many gullible people pay. But if you fight it in court, the prosecutor will hand you a copy and "bam" it's binding.
My daughter goes to University of Maryland and during the few days at the end of the semester when parents are picking up their children from school the city of College Park fires up these cameras and gives out a shit load of tickets for speeding and running a red light. We got a ticket for going 38 in a 35 a month later in the mail with no reasonable ability to fight the ticket. The city knows that out of state people are not going to take a day off of work and spend $100 on gas and tolls to fight a $65 ticket. They are basically stealing from us and all out of state parents are now aware of this. These cameras are "evil", claims of creating safer roads are disingenuous and any public official that allows this to continue is a hypocrite. 100% of drivers commit some type of infraction virtually every time they drive their care, 100%!! This is a slippery slope as Steve alluded to and the natural progression of this type of law enforcement is very ugly and bad for anyone who is not part of the ruling infrastructure. This is big brother at its worst.
Steve, many states have had to abandon their "Red Light Cameras" marketed to them as revenue generating, when somebody brings a challenge & points out that fines are the purview of the courts. Cities were forced to turn over all the funds collected from the inception of the program to the County Court. Now they were on the hook for all the costs associated with the program... not the "cash cow" that was marketed to them, this likely led to "Red Light Camera Systems" falling into disrupute.
We are infested with red light cameras in Seattle. When they first went in the yellow light mysteriously vanished from the traffic cycle. The gangsters who run this city will never give up their cash cow.
I once got a ticket in Delaware for $122.50 from a red light camera in which I know without a doubt that I entered the intersection yellow.
I promptly laid out $122.50 on my table, took a photo, and mailed it back. You got a picture of my car, here is a picture of my money.
I was a teenager then, don't judge me too hard.
Jack Gerald I call bs.
@@avega2792 why?
Because it's an old internet story where the cops sent a picture of handcuffs to the guy that got the ticket.
@@avega2792 there was an old website on California traffic law and those red light cameras, this is going back to the very early 2000s. In it, the person who claimed to be a lawyer, explained that nothing criminally could be done, car couldn't be repossessed, etc. He only stated that it might cause problems with vehicle registration if you planned to move to said state in the future.
So I rolled the dice, being an uppity teenager. (19 at the time)
LOL!!!
There are 2 ways red light cameras are designed to work. Right turn on red after stopping (They claim you must stop for 3 seconds), and running the red because you didn't stop on time. They shorten the yellow light time to get you with a red. It's outrageous that the previous light and the one after uses a 9 second yellow but the one with the camera uses a short 3 seconds long yellow.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration recommends a minimum of a 1 1/2 second yellow for every 10 miles per hour of speed. So a roadway with a 50 mph speed limit should be using a minimum of a 7 1/2 second yellow. A road near me with a 55 mph speed limit had a 9 second yellow at the intersection before and at the intersection after the intersection using a 3 second yellow. This is criminal!
I frequently go to a small town 20 miles away that wanted to install them. The people of that town were able to keep the city officials from having them installed. Instead they hired a company to do parking tickets in the main part of town. That company was writing tickets for any questionable thing they could find.People started not going to that part of town until they did away with the company. One of the great things of small towns.
My point was that the college law professor was not the driver of the car and had proof that he was somewhere else and was still considered guilty.
The city with of Lubbock, contracted with a RED LIGHT CAMERA company, claiming the contract was for the safety of the general public. Just to prove how concerned they were about safety, instead of profit (or their lack thereof), they set up fines of $150.00 per violation. They then designated the fines as a civil offense, so the state can't receive any of the funds. FORTUNATELY, the Texas state legislature, enacted regulations. First, the fines are capped at $75.00 Second, since it is a traffic offense, half of the funds are to be sent to the state. The new regulations reduced the proceeds to the city of Lubbock by 75%, eliminating any profit from the photos. If it was done for safety, the city wouldn't mind losing money from each photograph and hearing to make the roads "safer". The cameras were disabled, and removed within 2 weeks of the state regulations on such cameras. By the way, when the cameras were there, collisions at such intersections escalated over 4 fold, because people would slam on their brakes, as a light begins to turn yellow, causing the followers to collide into the abruptly stopped vehicles.
I live in the small town of Watauga Texas, a full four square miles. At the intersection of Highway 377 and Hightower drive is one of those red light cameras. There is also a McDonald's on that corner that I frequent at night. I parked so I can watch the intersection and the red light flash goes off even when there is no car in the intersection! So that's how I entertain myself while I am having my chicken nuggets is to watch The Flash go off when no one is around! Ghost car?
Jim Clark, N5QL... Sounds like you need some buddies, a bottle of your preference, a chicken suit, and a few cans of silly string.
Give 'em a show!
.
I live in that same small town. I know a lot of people that have received tickets from cameras in NRH, Watauga, and Haltom City, I know very few that have actually paid them. As for Texas, red light camera are all hat and no cattle. Here is a great article from BH&W Law firm in Ft. Worth. www.bhwlawfirm.com/pay-red-light-camera-ticket-texas/
Great article! Thanks for passing it along.
I was in Washington state on an almost empty road and I kept getting stopped at every intersection. After getting stopped at about 6 red lights with no cross traffic I eventually got pissed and ran one and got sent a violation notice...that I never paid.
I live in Tennessee and several years ago the state legislature passed a law that the only way a person could get a ticket for turning right on red and not coming to a complete stop is if it was witnessed by a police officer. Instantly, red light traffic camera revenue dropped by 95% and the red light camera companies started to sue the state. I think they all lost in court and I had a new found respect for our state legislature for doing the right thing.
Steve, in California, a camera gets a picture of the license plate, and another gets a picture of the driver. They send you a picture of to plate and of the driver.
The Supreme court should clarify this as un-constitutional.
Good luck on that one. They won't even hear the evidence of the rigging of the last election. This kind of government is what the second amendment is all about.
South Dakota had one of these installed in Sioux Falls. A complaint about the legality of the system was brought through the court system all the way to the state Supreme Court and the system was found unconstitutional. The court ruled that all of the tickets from the previous years had to be refunded on request. The city developed a case of anxiety quickly and in trying to figure out how to pay the people back they called the company in AZ asking about how they were going to help pay all the tickets back. If memory serves they said "what, we're not helping pay. You issued the ticket, we're just the service provider for which you paid half the cost of the ticket to us as the fee." Which was a valid legal argument. The city had a hard time paying all those tickets back.
In some places, usually away from your state of residence, if you personally appear at any hearing that is set to hear your appeal on a red light case, there is always the risk that you will be served with an arrest warrant at the hearing. Then you may be required to be finger-printed, etc. and processed, and then required to post a high cash bond because you are a non-resident who is unlikely to return and/or to pay any fine imposed or serve any jail sentence imposed on the new warrant. It reminds me of Kafka, but it all can depend on the whims of the hearing officers, judges, cops, or the bad advice of a city attorney, etc., and it could happen to any of us. In SC on I-95 a little town ran such a for-profit operation with a speed camera, and even though it was almost certainly illegal, it was more profitable for the town to litigate legality and continue collecting the cash, until the law was changed to make it crystal clear that it was illegal. The key to profitability was that no points were reported to anybody, if you sent your money in as requested, and most did.
I received a red light ticket in California. They had pictures which included the driver, vehicle, and license plate mailed to my home along with the citation. $500 fine.
In the photo of the driver, the driver was wearing a hat and sunglasses. They use drivers license photos to identify the driver. But with the hat and sunglasses, it really could have been a number of people. While it was reasonable to assume that with that evidence, a police officer had probable cause to send the citation, I believed there’s no way in hell a judge (no jury as you described in your video) could find me guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
I went to trial. I refused to testify, pleading the 5th, but I did ask questions of “the people”. The officer who signed the affidavit was not present. I requested dismissal on grounds that I was not being afforded the right to face my accuser. Judge denied motion. I brought a photo of me, my 6 cousins and brother standing with sunglasses on and asked the officer that did appear (because he had signed most of the affidavits for red light traffic court that day) if any of them could be the person in the photo from the red light camera. He answered that it could have been any one of 3 of the 8 people (one of the 3 he identified was not me)!!
Then the Judge did not want to take my photo into evidence!!! I asked why and he deflected, so I pushed and pushed hard. He finally relented, with a sigh.
In my closing argument, I read the instructions to jurors and emphasized the “beyond a reasonable doubt” portion.
He ruled not guilty but only after stating that in his opinion he truly believed it was me in the car, but he was finding me “not guilty” just because he has to follow the burden of proof requirement (apparently begrudgingly). I was flabbergasted that this was a JUDGE acting that way!! These things are EVIL!!!
Lesson Learned??? Put your hand in front of your face!
Did everyone in the courtroom break out in applause?
The accusing officer (not the one who issued the citation, he never showed) shook my hand and said congrats. The judge said he was sure I did it, but based on rule of law had to find me not guilty.
This is wild. Thanks for sharing. I just got a red light camera ticket and in the photo “the person” has sunglasses on so I hope to have the ticket dismissed under the pretense that the driver cannot be identified beyond reasonable doubt.
Pro tip: don’t wear glasses or sunglasses to the courtroom!! 😂
I first saw red light cameras in Germany in 1976. I thought to myself “LOL German efficiency,” why can’t we do that in the States? Now I know.
Last year I received a notice from Mass DOT , from a location 7 hours away, that my 1992 Buick had ran a toll in western Mass...
I owned the vehicle for 6 years without once leaving my home state with the vehicle.
At first I thought the paperwork was a scam , though after research and phone calls, it proved to be an authentic charge for about $5.
When I spoke with Mass DOT, explaining the situation with the vehicle, she supposedly looked at the LPR image , and immediately said " ok , we can see the plate # clearly, and the computer misread a 9 for a 6. Happens often."
That's reassuring! 🙄
She then said the violation was not valid and I had nothing more to worry about.
One month later, I received another notice from Mass dot, this time for a $20 fee stemming from the original $ .75 cent violation.
Again I call , and they say oh , we had yet to remove you from the violation list , it is approved for removal, sorry...
The next month , another notice, this time around $75 for the original violation.
Upon calling for clarification a third time , I was fortunate to get a helpful young lady who informed me the case had been approved for termination, though had never been removed from billing!
At that point I stopped receiving paperwork, never did send any $ . ( Though have yet to get pulled over in Massachusetts to find out if it really was settled lol)
If you research these license plate reading cameras, there are many cases the ACLU points out where owners of vehicles have been stopped while driving and mistakenly arrested, often violently, accused of theft of the vehicle, or other crimes , wrongly, simply due to a clerical error, or technology failure on the part of law enforcement.
Scary stuff.
Happy holidays, and thanks for the good info Steve!
To complicate this problem, some municipalities shorten the time of the yellow so that you're more apt to get a red light tivket. Baton Rouge, La. Aprox 25% of the tickets are not being paid, and the car owners are now going to court to fight this evil
Denver Colorado issues the ticket (including a photo of the driver's face) to the first person listed on the vehicle registration.
In my experience, if you list your partner/parent/etc. first on the registration, and they're game to respond to your tickets with a copy of their license and a statement that they aren't the person shown on the ticket, you'll never pay a red light or speed camera ticket in Denver.
An Illinois state senator was just charged federally for bribery, in relation to these red light cameras
I'm not sure of all the details of the history on this, but we had them in our town for years. At some point they ended up on a ballot and were voted out by the public and then removed. In our town the system would not only take a picture of the license plate of the person running the stop, but also a picture through the windshield of the driver.
Regarding speed traps a camera will take a picture of the driver. The driver, and not the car is fined although the citation is mailed to the address of the person the car is registered to. Many have gotten off on these citations by claiming the person behind the wheel is not the person who the citation was assigned to (vehicle owner). Even though the picture may appear to show that they seem to be the same person, it's the burden of law enforcement to 'prove' it's the same person. There are local stories of persons going to court and claiming it's not them, and that they have a twin sister or brother. The burden is not on the defendant to prove that claim to be true, but on law enforcement to prove the claim to be false and this appears to be where the cases for the city falls apart because they have not prepared to prove this to not be true in advance of the case getting into court. Bottom line appears to be that a picture does not provide good enough proof of identity. The city by the way is Tucson, AZ
We have these in VA. It would be great if it we're about safety. But it is for local revenue only not for traffic safety.
They are NEVER about safety.
@@TrussttN01 ]
@@jayrivera4213 What does that mean?
San Diego 'used' to have these until an attorney fought a ticket. As he prepared for trial, he found out that the state/county/city all had different durations that the lights would be yellow and of course the light in question was shorter than all of these. He also discovered that the sensors buried in the road had been 'mislocated' because of other underground utilities and thus also shortened the time. It became a big story in the news and he prevailed. The judge not only threw his ticket out, but all the tickets from that camera (perhaps sense it was installed, but I cannot recall). Hundreds of thousands of dollars were refunded. Many had taken safety courses to reduce the points on there licenses and I'm not sure if these were refunded. New mayor discontinued the program and now San Diego is camera free. Funny thing is it was touted as a safety issue, but the number of wrecks actually increased at intersections with the cameras as people would jam on their brakes rather than risk a $500 ticket and get rear ended.
I used to see these in LA county but I haven't for a long time now that I think about it. They must have been removed here too. Thank you San Diego attorney!
California is touted as a "progressive" state. $500 for a red light violation seems VERY REGRESSIVE. $500 is more like a shakedown, not a deterrent.
@Ryan Vannice Remember, to be truly progressive, you need to have a truly progressive tax system! That exorbitant tickets are just part of that system.
@@Nickvec and you have to pretend you're a friend to the poor while voting in penalties and fines that hurt them much more
@Ryan Vannice I totally agree! You have to be fairly rich for a $500 ticket not to really hurt. The poor can ill afford it or to take a day off and fight it.
I got a ticket few years back..Balcones Heights Tx
One early morning I turned right on red & no body but me at that intersection when I turned I saw the bright flash & a few days later in my mail was a picture taken birds eye view with a fine of 87 dollars & change.The fine amount was in big bright red letters & I thought of something & went yo go get it.I came back with an old polaroid camera and took a picture of 87 & change on my kitchen table and I stuffed the picture in thier provided return envelope and sent them a picture of the money they claimed I owed.
What happen after? Did they pursue it?
@@vomschillerhausrottweiler8529 I kept them waiting for a few years but unfortunately for me ...Texas wont allow you to renew a vechicle registration if you have ANY outstanding fines or warrants whatever...so I went in & payed the damn thing! To this day..Still pisses me off thinking about it, there all tied together the computers they got it all set up so every large metropolis to the little shit town with 1 dairy queen gets thier extortion payment eventually? Obviously had it not been for my obvious need to drive my veicle and keep evreything current...that bullshit camera fine would have to this day still unpaid and stayed that way for eternity the sorry bastards!! O fuckin well
I'm surprised they didn't send you a picture of an arrest warrant.
@@johntracy72 Hey man I dont give a fuck about a warrant I damn sure can do 4 - 10 days this infraction at its worse case would have yielded on my fucking head and since you feel all "suprised" and all...How bout you just keep your two cent's alright there Captain boot licker..
You probably need it more than I do and another thing, Fuck these traffic cameras and the greedy chicken shit municipalities that use them to generate revenue by shortning yellow light times and like in my case issue a violation for not stopping and remaining for 4seconds...? Ive heard of two seconds but 4 seconds? Thats Bullshit no matter what lip service nonsence anybody says..
@@jamessouza7065 (I think Mr. Tracey was joking.)
Just as evil as red light cameras are the ignition interlock devices that many states now mandate for those found guilty of DUI. If they only required a breath test to start the car, that would be fine. But in addition, they now also feature a "rolling restart". This is a retest that can occur at random intervals of 5 minutes to one hour, and requires the driver to submit to a breath test while also operating the vehicle. This is not a simple matter of just blowing into a device. The driver's eyes have to come off the road to read the display, and push buttons in response to what it says. Also, each device is programmed for a different pattern of blowing and sucking, for example blow until the device has beeped 3 times, then suck for 2 beeps, then blow again until the "test passed" chime sounds. Failure to respond to the randomly requested test first causes the lights to flash and the horn to honk, followed by a complete shutdown of the vehicle. These maneuvers are very dangerous, especially if required while one is involved in heavy traffic, and even more so if the vehicle has a stick shift rather than automatic transmission. In Wisconsin, offenders who are required to use these must bring their vehicle in to the installer every other month to have the device's data downloaded. One manufacturer, Intoxalock, calls this process "calibration", but it isn't.) A year on this program costs nearly a thousand dollars, since installation, removal and all visits to the installer are paid at the time of the service. In some states, the devices also may include GPS tracking and a camera that takes a photo of the person who performs the test. (I suppose that is to prevent a hard core whisky fan from having his children concert for him. )
Part of the evil of these devices is the matter of safety, but in addition, they are pretty horrible technologically. They cause a serious drain on the car battery, and routinely give false positives. Eating a piece of bread or wearing perfume can set them off. Mr. Lehto, I hope you will take an in depth look at these things, as you have with red light cameras.
In many states they have laws stating what they can and can't do. In most states and I would imagine federally it is ILLEGAL to cause a stall event. It's considered dangerous. That's why GM's onstar system disabled throttle but leaves the engine running, to maintain steering and brakes.
My daughter received a speeding ticket (well I did as I own the car) via a camera on a highway in Maryland. The ticket is for going X mph in a construction zone. She doesn't remember ever seeing one or signs and the image has no evidence of a construction zone either. Since the ticket comes a month after it supposedly happened, I apparently have to take their word for it there was both a construction zone and speed signs that modify the posted speed limit.
That camera must be RAKING in the money as she said she was just going the speed of traffic with a lot of other vehicles.
But given the relatively low amount of the "citation", going through all the effort to fight it is completely not worth it. Wonder if they did studies to find that $ amount that is high enough to make money, but low enough virtually nobody contests it.
When for-profit companies install these cameras, the potential for conflict of interest exists. The objectivity is mitigated, if not removed altogether. They WANT people to run the lights for the revenue fleeced from people.
Under the idea that if I loan my car to a buddy, and he rips through a red light at 100 MPH and gets a photo taken - and I'm responsible cause it's my car - Under that concept, I should NOT be liable for any tickets I get when renting a car. It's not my car. Enterprise should be liable, they rented their car to someone who speeds and blows red lights.
Enterprise passes them on. I've had it happen twice in rental cars. They pass the info back to the red light company and you get your notice of violation.
Happy holidays Steve. Thanks for sharing your insight
I live in Toronto, Ontario and sadly we have red light cameras here. There is a private company here called X COPERS (former police officers) who will go to court on your behalf and argue the point you made, prove who was driving the car! As you said they can't. From what I have been told, X COPERS usually will have the ticket thrown out.
We had a "Red light camera Robinhood" who was going out with his Sawzall and cutting down the red light cameras...I will see if there are any published accounts in the local newspaper s.
These cameras aren't just about running red lights. They're about surveillance, especially when used in conjunction with the new "facial recognition" Real ID drivers licenses that are mandated now. That should terrify everyone.
@@jhoughjr1 You certainly are obsessed with banging away at that one note, though.
@@jhoughjr1 If I had a dollar for every system or policy instituted by the government that eroded our freedoms and privacy under the guise of keeping us "safe", I'd be very rich indeed. James Madison said that a tyranny instituted for our own good is the worst kind because it is a tyranny without limits.
These cameras have little if anything to do with stopping people from running lights. Yes, some money is made in the process (never let an infringement of freedom go to waste if you can profit off it at the same time), but with facial recognition interfaced with a state's DMV network and municipal camera systems, your real time location can be tracked in seconds. This, along with the GPS in your car and cell phone create an interlinking system of 24-hour surveillance. We're nearly living in an open air concentration camp and yet, no one seems to notice it happening.
Perhaps they will once they're deemed "domestic terrorists" because of their personal or political views, monitored daily and possibly arrested. Forget the cameras. It's up to parents to teach their children about keeping their heads out of their phones and looking both ways when they cross the street. If a child or anyone happens to get hit, it's tragic, but it's not worth diminishing or eliminating the right of privacy and freedom for the entire population.
Reminds me of a vacation several years ago in Florida. I pulled up to a toll booth to enter a toll road and found the booth empty. I waited a few minutes thinking the attendant must have run to the bathroom. Looking behind where I had pulled up, in my rear view mirror, I saw a crowd gather about 100 yards behind me ( apparently a slight accident had occurred). I concluded that the toll booth attendant had left his station to go back to the accident before I pulled up.
About two months later I got a charge from the car rental company charging me with the fee for the toll and whatever penalty went along with it. Traveling back to Florida from Michigan to fight seemed like a losing cause in itself so I reluctantly paid it. All those camera plants are a scam because they know very few people are going to challange things weeks or months later! Heck, I dont remember what I had for lunch two days ago!! Fleece the tourists. Nobody said life was fair!!
In California those red light fines are $400, at least they were about 10 years ago so they might be even more today in 2021. They had them everywhere, taking pictures from 6 angles including pics of the driver, and the reason why was "unsafe locations". Why not fix the unsafe intersection or road location problem and either reengineer the traffic concerns or some other fix but no, it can make them money. After several years of folks complaining and fighting them in court, an infraction, but they do have traffic court for them, many cities had decided to remove a large quantity of them but not all of them. Today, most of them are gone but not all. They were hard to contest but there were so many of them where the driver was not the owner so of course the owners were notified, not the drivers, and complained to the court "Its not my job to investigate for the court" and refused to identify the driver if they knew who they were as the court tried to use the owners to rat out the driver or face paying the fines. That wasn't working out too good for the courts based on the investigative responsibilities of the police etc. Then, there were law firms who were doing class actions because most folks couldn't justify spending the legal fees to try their case so, law firms acquired a bunch of red light clients and went to court. Class cases usually pay better in a court room than an individual matter would so the cities didn't like the odds of losing and having to pay a huge settlement. Then, came a fact that the police had to prove notice of service. In a regular traffic infraction th epolice pull you over and have you sign the "Notice To Appear" or the ticket. When you sign that, you are signing notice of service or acknowledging receipt of the violation and so forth. With red light tickets, you don't sign anything and the courts cannot prove notice of service even if they mail you the red light ticket because its not delivered with a signature request. However, there inside the notice is a nice easy reading letter with instructions that helps you find out more about the ticket by logging in online with the ticket number and so forth. Once you do log in correctly...they got you because that proves to the court your got the ticket in the mail and signed in on the website or signed for the notice of service. Most folks do just that and have to either fight or pay. Some folks never log into their website and ignore the matter and never hear anything about them again. If they do get another notice in the mail, they ignore those too and never hear back. Most folks believe that sworn officers must personally see, evaluate and determine the violation vs. a machine and then an officer look at the pictures and decide. Some cities don't even have police officers determine the tickets, general employees are doing it and or they have the red light companies doing them. In early day, cities had the red light companies doing all of the work including who gets the tickets but after time, courts decided they couldn't be the ones doing that and forced police to do it yet, to this day, some of the people sending you tickets are not sworn in officers ! Keep voting these kinds of idiots into Government positions and it can only get worse and worse. They are public servants aka citizen stewards folks...look it up. If they can't work for us the only option they have is to work for themselves or against us.
Steve, here in Oregon we have these. There are video cameras also connected to the system. If I run a red light the system takes a photo of both front and rear license plates. Also, the computer automatically saves the video feed of the whole infraction. We can look it up on line and see a whole video of what happened who was driving and the license plate photo's. Its a huge money trap. The main way to get out of it here is to time the yellow light and make sure its set to minimum time standards according to state regs.
Whoa! If I pay a "red light ticket," will my insurance company raise my premiums? It seems to me that there is more involved here than just the fine!
I got one of these many years ago in California. Supposedly, a vehicle I had never owned, was driven by me, through a red-light intersection in a city I have never set foot in. I called the ticket issuer, explained these facts and they apologized for the error.
In Florida (and I suspect other states)...If you do to court and plead not guilty, they are NOT allowed to enter the film as evidence. Charges will be dropped.
Texas has just banned these and Austin turned their red light cameras off. But while they were still being used, I would treat them as "No right turn on red" if I needed to turn right at a photo enforced intersection.
Not to nitpick Steve, but I think you mean "burden of proof and "standard of evidence" which I take to mean prima facie "preponderance of the evidence" vs. "reasonable doubt" no?
Sorry, pre-law. Can't resist. Took a different course to an Engineering career, but the law did, and does, fascinate me.. These constructs we make to normalize, codify and dictate behaviors between people, other people, and their governmental agencies... Truly fascinating...
Great video btw. Very informative, as are all of your videos. Please keep them coming. :)
Hey Steve, great video as always.
I got one of these tickets a couple of years back. I live in Florida.
I went through the process and finally paid the ticket, but afterwards I really started to pay attention to these cameras.
What I noticed is that they are very erratic as to when they take pictures. I have seen cars clearly running red lights where are the strobe never fired and I’ve been sitting in an intersection where no cars we’re going through only to get blinded by that stupid strobe that was apparently taking a picture of nothing.
This got me to thinking. I seriously doubt these companies are meticulously maintaining this equipment since more often than not, people just write the check and go about their business. That being said I believe that if I had simply written a public records request, I could’ve gotten a copy of the manual and specifications for the equipment or at a minimum a description of operation from the presentation that was used to sell the system to the municipality.
In any event I only need some document that describes the operation of the device and then a video of the device operating erratically. Add to that a request for the maintenance logs in at a minimum I think I could demonstrate that the machine is not operating to the specifications described by the manufacture. A machine that is not performing to manufacturers specifications he’s not a reliable source of evidence therefore there is an improper foundation for any evidence provided by that machine.
I’m sure that by now you rightfully are rolling your eyes at my amateur analysis, but I do wanna point out that just a few years ago in Florida a speeding ticket was somewhat famously thrown out because the manufacture would not provide the source code for a radar gun. The defenses position was that if they were not allowed to analyze the source code for potential flaws, the radar gun was simply a magic box that determined guilt or innocence. The court agreed and tossed it out for improper foundation.
Again I realize I’m probably missing something very fundamental here, but I very much agree with you Red light cameras are evil. Great episode man keep up the good work.
The idea that they are using STROBE LIGHTS to take these pictures really bothers me because if there’s anyone with epilepsy in the car (driver or passenger... likely not the driver but still) this can cause a MASSIVE SEIZURE in many people who have epilepsy (as I do) and even if it’s a passenger that could be distressing and distracting enough to the driver to cause an accident ON TOP of the seizure!!! NOT COOL AT ALL!!!
I knew an elderly lady who's grandaughter ran a redlight in the grandmother's car, and the photo and citation went to this nice, elderly, limited income, grandmother. She paid it without hesitation, she said no way she was gonna 'rat out' her granddaughter.
Yep...these things suck.
The "notice" itself would appear to be some sort of scam to be thrown out with the junk mail...a P.O. Box in Arizona?!
PA has those evil accident killer cameras!
Was coming to a stop at the bottom of a hill. Light was turning red, I looked at my rearview mirror and noticed a large truck on it's way. Something told me not to stop and thank goodness I didn't. (Camera snapped a picture and $120 dollars later. ) The truck didn't stop either and would have barreled right into me!
Good thing the voices in my head are always full of good advice. If only I could get the voices to pay for the ticket!
We have these cameras in Australia but they need to have a photo of the driver or they get thrown out, the ticket is the same as if you were caught by the police and what happened to you would be a valid defence.
Would also be easy to prove considering the truck behind you didn't stop and would also have been photographed.
In Houston, city council installed red light cameras. Subsequently, we had a referendum that outlawed them.
I agree with you 100% that red light cameras are evil, I live here in Arizona where they do take a picture of both your license plate and your face so if it's someone else driving your car you won't get the ticket. Also in Arizona a lot of the intersections have both red light cameras and speeding cameras, my wife found that out the hard way! By the way thank you so much for your podcast they are so informative and entertaining thanks Jim